A 10 year-old boy in Ohio has been suspended from school for using a ‘Level II Look-Alike Firearm’ in school. His ‘firearm’ of choice is more accurately described as his ‘finger.’ Where gun control and zero tolerance collide, all kinds of crazy Orwellian shit goes down. A joke becomes a threat. And your finger becomes a firearm. Doublespeak much? . . .
From CNN:
Ten-year-old Nathan Entingh doesn’t understand why he got suspended from school for three days.
According to his father, Paul Entingh, one moment the boy was “goofing off” with his friends in fifth grade science class, and the next the teacher was taking him out of the classroom invoking Ohio’s zero-tolerance policy.
The offense? Nathan was “making his fingers look like a gun, having the thumb up and the pointed finger sticking out,” said Entingh, describing the February 26 incident.
“He was pointing it at a friend’s head and he said ‘boom.’ The kid didn’t see it. No other kids saw it. But the teacher saw it,” he said. “It wasn’t threatening. It wasn’t hostile. It was a 10-year-old kid playing.”
The next morning Paul Entingh escorted his son Nathan to the principal’s office, where they met with Devonshire Alternative Elementary School Principal Patricia Price.
“She said if it happened again the suspension would be longer, if not permanent,” said Entingh, who also received a letter explaining the reason for Nathan’s suspension as a “level 2 look alike firearm.”
The letter, which Entingh shared with CNN, read, “Nathan put his fingers up to another student’s head, simulating a gun, and said, ‘BOOM,’ “
Price’s office referred CNN’s call to Columbus City Schools spokesman, Jeff Warner.
Price “has been warning the students for some weeks,” said Warner. “We’ve had a problem at this school. The boys have gone around fake shooting and making paper guns at class. It’s inappropriate. She has sent notes to parents for the past three weeks alerting them of the problem.”
Entingh said he never received a notice, but was aware of school authorities telling students, including Nathan, that any gun-related behavior would have serious consequences.
“I don’t know if it’s to the point it happened so much they needed to punish somebody to set an example, I don’t know, it blows my mind,” said Entingh.
Warner acknowledged there was likely no ill-intention in Nathan’s actions, “I know he (Nathan) felt it was funny and in jest, but the teacher felt it was inappropriate given the warnings that were given.”
Appropriate? Any educator who can say that with a straight face needs strong psychotropic medication, stat, and is patently unfit to have any unsupervised contact with minors, let alone supervise their education. In Nathan’s school district, a dozen students were expelled last year for ‘lookalike firearm’ incidents, while none were expelled for harassment or intimidation. Care to explain that, Mr. Warner?
When people start spouting off about “common sense gun control”, this kind of situation is where I point them to for an example.
This is not common sense “gun control”, this is common sense culture war.
The fact that anyone uses Facebook anymore, and supports their collectivist ways, not to mention the voluntary surrender of your privacy absolutely amazes me.
Get a clue people!
This is what happens when we educate, and govern, to the lowest common denominator.
I wish my finger could become a firearm; it would save me the hassle of toting around 2 extra pounds of Glock in my waistband every day.
Does capital letter “L” qualify as ‘Level III Look-Alike Firearm’?
hey, thats a photo of me.
Nathan – Thumb up. Condition One, I reckon.
Principal Price – Condition Sheer Stupidity, can’t fix that.
By definition, if you have “levels” of firearm, look alike or otherwise, you are already making exceptions to your own Zero-tolerance policy – so why don’t we just down grade fingers to, oh I don’t know….level 5, and call it a day. idiots!
what it all narrows down to is people need to worry about their own business and stop worrying about others,when another person can decide what you can have or do that means they will be treated likewise.
Im looking to change my factory stock off my .50Beowulf im looking for some input on what to put on and where to get it from any advice is gud advice in my book …
Despite the fact that Michael Fineman was very highly trained in small arms as a former active duty Special Forces soldier. He was not allowed to carry legally in San Diego. If he had been able to he may have survived, as Ralph Garbarini, the shooter, began shooting after being asked to leave the restaurant, Extraordinary Desserts,…because he was staring at the victims, which I would call a heads-up for Michael.
The shooter purchased the gun legally only in the sense that he apparently lied on his purchase form. He was carrying his firearm illegally….but laws don’t force nuts or crooks to get a permit or insurance, and can never do so.
What about ukraine’s weapons ? Isn’t it a possibility that ukraine bought guns to Russia ? I mean Russia use French made boat, but that doesn’t mean France attacks Ukraine ? And it isn’t because somali pirates use AK-47 that they are Russian.
Weapons and military forces are two differents things.
T, it’s not about the weapons per se. Russia and Ukraine both use AK-74, for example, since they both are ex-Soviet republics and still maintain most of the same weaponty. It’s all the other equipment: most telling are uniforms (Russia introduced the new digital camo in 2008, Ukraine is still on old 1980s-era Soviet camo), but also helmets, load bearing vests etc. All of these match precisely the current loadout of the Russian armed forces; the only noticeable difference is that identifying patches are absent.
Where gun control and zero tolerance “collide”?
English usage correction.
Where gun control and zero tolerance:
Run parallel
Go hand in hand
Are good freinds
Dry hump each other
I’ve never seen a gun with a vertical protrusion extending from the rear of the gun nearly as high as the barrel is long.
Looked like the short barrel version picked up an extra 20-25fps over the standard +p so I’m curious if the bullets aren’t identical and they just use faster burning powder in the short barrel.
If you need a non +p load, I’d look to the Speer 115gr. Gold Dot. Speer claims 1210fps from a 4″ barrel (10fps less than the 124 +p) and the lighter bullets will tend to expand more easily than the heavier ones.
Now if I could get him to try the rest of those Gold Dots fired from a 4.9″ Beretta 92 barrel, I’d be interested in seeing those results.
Life-affirming black, huh? Must really have a maverick marketing team over there at Walther… I’ll pick up my life-affirming black rifle right after I finish my long-day-annihilating coffee but before I get in my twisty-road-murdering car. Come to think of it, I can’t wait to get off of work and imbibe a tension-vaporizing adult beverage.
I like “Hold Fast” better than “Stand Strong”. Good idea either way
Maybe the short barrel version is a gimmick?
This man is psychologically dammaged and is looking for some way to place blame. I think he needs a good doctor. It makes me sad to see someone so tormented that this is his response.
To deal with the questions at hand,
1. Every gun owner needs to be licensed; Every gun must be registered; Every gun has to carry insurance;
a. Licensing
i. Licensing does nothing to prevent those with evil intent from executing their plan.
ii. Licensing does put people on a list to be harassed by the police and by government processes (think IRS persecution).
b. Registration
i. Stolen guns may be registered but, once stolen, are off the grid. Violent criminals do not register the weapons they steal or buy illegally. Therefore registration provides no benefit in a criminal investigation.
ii. Registration simpy provides a list of who HAD what when the registration was created.
iii. In the event of a stolen weapon’s recovery at a crime scene, the weapon is rarely returned to the original owner thus negating any possible positive benefit to the owner him/herself.
iv. Such lists lend themselves to abuse by police agencies who have in the past chosen to over-respond to a gun owner’s home either in response to a 911 call or for a warrant.
v. The list created and maintained by Canada was so notoriously jumbled and the cost overruns were so high that they chose to scrap the whole thing.
vi. In every single instance of a registry the list has been used to confiscate weapons. Every single time.
c. Insurance
i. Insurance is issued to provide restoration for accidents or acts of god, not intentional acts.
ii. No insurance company offers any type of insurance that Mr. Fineman is referencing.
iii. Those insurance policies I have seen amount to a prepaid attourney retainer and some monetary benefit for the gun owner in the event that a DEFENSIVE GUN USE is required. There is on coverage for intentional acts of violence or criminal behavior.
iv. There is absolutely no prescedent for an insurance policy maintained by the owner of an item to pay out to a victim who has been attacked by the owner with the item or by someone who has stolen the item and used it illegally.
v. Homeowner and renter policies already cover accidents in the home and do not reference “gun” in any way.
2. Require guns to have smart triggers that can only fire if the fingerprint matches the owner’s fingerprint;
a. The technology stated simply does not exist in the marketplace. Even the NTSB doesn’t require car maufacturers to install non-existent safety equipment on their cars.
b. This statement precludes any possible alternate technology which may enable user identification.
c. Any future technology based on this idea would be exceedingly dangerous to the owner of the firearm as any dirt, blood, glove, environmental contaminant, etc. would render him/her completely defensless.
d. The use of gloves in winter would defeat the technology.
e. The weapon could not be loaned to a friend for legal use on a range or while hunting.
f. A low/dead battery would render the owner defenseless.
g. Switching between hands or using an alternate finger due to an injury renders the firearm useless.
3. Enact parallel charges for parents, relatives and adults, as accoplices, for crimes committed by children who gain access to their guns;
a. There is nothing special about a gun which should cause us to create new and novel (and unconstitutional) legal theories.
b. Laws regarding negligence already exist on the books and are rigorously enforced in most jurisdictions.
c. The meaning of accomplice is not met by simple acts of negligence. Enacting a law which would charge as such would be ruled unconstitutional.
d. The number of crimes committed by children with guns is vanishingly small (assuming we use the standard definition of “child”). As such, this is an attempt to fix a problem that does not exist with an unconstitutional law which would, if enacted, solve nothing.
e. A child (properly defined) quite often cannot be held criminally responsible for their actions due to their age.
f. A criminal charge requires intent. Negligence on the part of an adult does not reach this threshold.
4. Prevent suspected terrorists and people on the “No-Fly” list from leagally purchasing guns;
a. It is illegal to view the No-Fly list.
b. No one knows if their name is on the list until they are prevented from flying.
c. The list contains information added which is not uniquely identifying.
d. No one knows how a name is added to the list.
d. There is no way to have incorrect names removed from the list.
e. The existing appeal process is arbitrary and capricious (and most likely unconstitutional).
f. Existing laws specifically prohibit the list from being used for other purposes.
g. No additional benefit of any kind could be gained by using this tool except to unconstitutionally deny citizens their right to bear arms.
h. Any possilbe law which would allow this would be found unconstitutional.
5. Prevent criminals, the mentally ill and all prohibited purchasers from legally purchasing guns at gun shows or over the internet;
a. A sutible remark could be “Congratulations, mission accomplished!” Such purchases are already illegal.
b. Laws do not and cannot prevent behavior. Fear of prosecution MAY prevent behavior. Laws simply outline punishments for their violation.
i. Criminals have alreay determined that the reward is worth the risk.
ii. The insane are not deterred by punishment because they are unable to weigh risks and may not be able to identify their actions as “criminal”, “bad” or any other concepts that would stop a sane person from exhibiting the behavior.
iii. Prohibited persons may not be “criminal” prior to purchasing a gun illegally but they are after the purchase. The only way to prevent said prohibitee from this behavior is to incarcerate said person.
c. Gun Shows and Internet purchases follow the same laws as any other firearms transaction.
i. Even if person-to-person transactions required a background check, the actual sale would not and could not be prevented by the knowledge that the transaction is illegal.
ii. Out of state purchasers at gun shows must transfer any purchases to a licensed FFL in their home state even if the purchase is from an individual. The FFL is legally obligated to perform a background check prior to handing over the weapon and is prohibited from doing so if the purchaser is denied.
iii. Internet purchases follow the exact same laws as all other firearms transactions. The mode of communication is irrelevant.
6. Prohibit people from carrying guns in restaurants, bars, schools, sporting arenas, workplace parking lots, airports, churches, national parks, onboard Amtrak trains-to name a few.
a. RE #5-b; Laws do not and cannot prevent behavior. Fear of prosecution MAY prevent behavior. Laws simply outline punishments for their violation.
i. Those with criminal intent will ignore any prohibition as the act they plan is already criminal and the punishment for that crime is most likely much more severe than a “carrying in a prohibited place” charge.
ii. Only those who are deterred from performing the prohibited behavior are deterred by these threats of officially sanctioned violence upont them thus creating a ready made victim pool for the criminal.
b. The law of unintended consequences tells us that those places which we try to make the safest by this prohibition are precicely those places where we are the most vunerable to the criminal.
Hahaha, Yoyo County gets CCW. The People’s Republic of DAVIS gets CCW. To really appreciate this, you have to realize Davis is Hippy-Dippy, Touchy-Feely enough to give any other place in the country a run for their money. Priuses, “fairy” dust, and bicyclists with no sense of self-preservation abound.
Well, I wouldn’t be caught dead in a Prius, but I am a cyclist — with a gun.
I’ve actually seen a dead person in a Prius. Those things are electrical nightmares in bad crashes.
The headline of this post sounds like a rap battle.
I read a different story about this, and the last line was the father being asked if he thought his son had learned anything from the experience. His response:
no one does background checks but dealers thats on facebook.everyone else sales to anyone thats got money.and they sale to people and dont know if they crazy or if they are a felony…….
As the example of Katrina demonstrates, you dont have to end up in a DGU to lose your carry gun to the cops.
As the example of Macomb County demonstrates, you don’t have to do much of anything to lose your hair to the cops. Yes, your hair.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/macomb-county/settlement-reached-in-warren-cut-on-camera-case
I bet he didn’t get his ammo back.
Took about 14 months for Nazir Al-Mujaahid to get his gun back from the Milwaukee Po-Po led by anti-gun authoritarian wannabe Ed Flynn. DGU occurred January 2012, no charge decision in February 2012, finally got his gun back after court order in April 2013. Convince me to buy a few more pistols just in case.
He brought it and they’ve been served.
Apparently, it is now on.
“Oh, its been broughten..”
“They didn’t have to shoot him, He was a good person. He was a family man. He made some mistakes but he was turning his life around. Blah blah blah.”
Actually, he was a POS, a junkie, a mother-beater and a career criminal with a violent past. He got what he deserved. And if his family cared for him that much, there are plenty more around who are just like him. Pick one and take him home. Hell, pick two.
Whoa whoa whoa… The police “de-escalated” something???
Good cops are actually quite skilled at de-escalating. Bad cops shoot the family chihuahua.
Good.
bright red jackets… hide the tell tale blood stain. just sayin’.
talking about “half measures” is good. a sign in a school saying “gun free zone” is a half measure to protect children. a double barrel shotgun is a half measure if you have 4 attackers. a 10 round magazine is a half measure if you miss several times against 4 attackers and on average you need 3+ rounds to stop an attack
Do your kids a favor and free them from these government indoctrination prisons.
Molan Labe mo fo’s!
The 60 round magazine doesn’t scare me. You know what scares me? Teenagers with car keys – that scares the shit out of me.
OMG! it only holds 60 oh the horror
That’s why you have a reverse gear in your car.
It appears the short barrel +P was a hair faster, so I am guessing it has a slightly faster burning powder. I would guess that if you shot it out of a 3.5″ barrel you would pick up a couple more fps over the standard +P. Honestly though I would be surprised if it would work out to be an extra 40 fps more over the regular +P, which probably would not make much of a practical difference.
I really disagree with the online course. I understand there is a field day but come on… The DNR in Wisconsin are so dead set on getting participation numbers up that they have let all of their licencing classes slip. That goes for hunter, snowmobile, and ATV safety classes. Everything can be done online apart from a hunter ed. field day.
Wait who are these guys again?
There was no invasion or occupation of the Ukraine. All the soldiers there had Crimean passports. Russian too, see they were dual citizens. And Barry doesn’t call it an invasion, it was an un-documented visit.
OMG, what’s next? Will children play cops and robbers? Will they play…ARMY? Oh no, we must ban fingers…for da chilren’
This is moving in to Dadaist performance art territory now.
I’m starting to like it.
Seeing as the SCAR is a no-no here in the Peoples Republic of Connecticut, I have to go with the Benelli.