I’ve been hearing it from pundits all week: gun control was the only thing that could have stopped Las Vegas spree killer Stephen Paddock. Ban bump fire stocks! “Assault rifles!” “High-capacity magazines”! Restrict the number of gun sales per month! None of that would have prevented the Mandalay Bay slaughter. None of that would stop the next mass shooter. Writing as a firearms and Krav Maga instructor and a former Israeli Special Forces Sniper, here are three things we can do to prevent mass shootings.
1. Profiling
In Israel, security staff at airports and other sensitive locations use “profiling” to identify potential terrorists. No, it’s not based on racial or ethnic identity. Trained agents scan crowds for anyone displaying behavioral signs indicating they may be about to engage in violence: fidgeting, whistling, sweaty palms, a cold penetrating stare, rigid posture and more.
Security staff trained in profiling identify, monitor, approach and question a “person of interest.” They ask simple questions and observe both verbal and nonverbal responses. If they establish probable cause, they can detain the person for further questioning and investigation.
I know many Americans consider this kind of proactive security intrusive. Unconstitutional, even. Show us your papers! What constitutes probable cause for further questioning? But Israeli security and police using profiling can and have spotted and stopped violent actors at hotels, bus stops, events and other public places — before they attacked.
2. Armed and properly trained security
The security guard who knocked on Mandalay Bay spree killer Stephen Paddock’s door was unarmed. He was greeted with 200 rounds fired through the door and down the hallway. Luckily, only one round hit the guard, and Paddock shot himself immediately afterwards.
Even so, there’s no way security staff should not have had access to the most effective personal self-defense weapon made: a gun. While I teach students in the brutally effective unarmed self-defense techniques known as Krav Maga, I would not choose to approach a potential terrorist or mass shooter unarmed.
https://youtu.be/5UX51lmL6sk
Maybe the hotel thought its large security staff wasn’t competent enough to be armed. Maybe the hotel didn’t want to pay for regular, professional, rigorous, regular firearms training.
I don’t know the quality of the Mandalay Bay hotel staff security, nor their training regime. But it’s high time America stopped deploying overweight, under-trained, unprofessional, unarmed people to protect the public. It’s time they took the threat of deranged killers/terrorist seriously enough to spend the time and money to train and equip effective security.
3. Better security at public events
Who could have guessed that someone would fire on the country music crowd from the 32nd floor of a nearby hotel? The Secret Service for one.
There’s no way The President of the United States would have been allowed to be in that crowd on that fateful night. At the very least, counter-snipers would have been scanning the surrounding area for long-range ballistic threats.
In addition to armed, well-trained security at large public gatherings, it’s time to consider adding a counter-sniper to large events with “over-watch” challenges. As most SWAT teams have at least one designated marksman, this is neither impossible nor impractical.
For the past decade, both the Israeli Defense Force and the U.S. military have been using Rafael’s SpotLite system. The technology can detect gunfire and pinpoint its source in seconds. Aside from cost, which is suddenly less of a consideration, there’s no reason this system couldn’t be deployed at large U.S. events.
This is not a question of choosing one from column A, one from Column B. These recommendations constitute a multi-layered security approach — combining several rings of security, on the ground, technologically and through old school techniques. Taken as a whole, they can help detect, prevent and stop future massacres.
A lot more lives could be saved by spending it on one or more many hundreds of more common and more easily preventable causes of death.
I thought I should put this more bluntly. This would be enormously expensive. It would probably cost hundreds of millions of dollars for every life saved.
Nonsense. You don’t have any idea what you’re talking about.
Yeah. Sounds like this guy has been in war zones too long. The United States isn’t a war zone and I’ll take a minuscule risk of being killed in a shooting spree if it means I don’t live in a police state.
There’s a bingo.
How about the Israelis just work on promoting peaceful coexistence with Palestinians first.
Oh it’ll never work you cry!
Or course it would, but in will never be seriously considered because there’s more money to be made from an eternal conflict.
It’ll never work, I cry, because the Palestinians have to want peaceful coexistence too. And they don’t.
Jihadi-enabling marxist tool.
There’s FIFTY muslim nations, ONE JEWISH one and you want to carve it up for terror another state for a fake “people”, 90% of whose last names/clans denote their family origins from the SURROUNDING MUSLIM NATIONS.
Israel is for the Jews, you self-“punishing” fool.
If you don’t realize it yet the whole world is in a war zone now, and always has been, it’s just common sense to prepare against terrorism whether Muslim related, or nut job related.
To blatantly state we would become a police state initiating these types of things is just plain ignorance, and lacks critical thinking.
None of the things this man suggested creates a police state, it just plain makes sense.
Having actual competent security at events would NOT make us a Police State.
What we have now is a shallow false illusion of security. Just enough to keep the sheep calm and quiet. (Airports included!)
Having a few trained riflemen – especially at large, high risk, events (such as this one) – would NOT make us a Police State.
What we have now are handgun armed officers… until SWAT arrives tens of minutes later – after the mass casualty event is over!
Profiling gets much stickier and frankly, I am not a fan. We can have much better trained security than we have now without going all the way to some sort of “stop and frisk” type system nationwide. There is a lot of room in between those two. Let’s put some vets to work in security positions for christs sake! At least they have some training to handle high stress situations. There should be basic mental health and physical health requirements, along with basic tactical response and weapons handling. Far too many “Secuirty Guards” working today are a complete joke on all these levels.
A quick story…
This past weekend I attended the Army 10 mile race in DC with my old lady. We noted several Federal Agent types armed with carbines in black fatigues. They were clearly in decent shape and not your average beat Cop. One of my wife’s friends made some hoplophobic comment about their guns making her nervous. To which my wife replied “No way… I feel SAFER with HIM having a big gun to protect US! He is trained to use it and knows what to do if any shit goes down.”
I was so proud to see my indoctrination to gun culture paying off! haha She still won’t shoot with me, but she used to be one of the misinformed not that long ago.
Nicely said; logical and rational.
Good analysis, and good advice.
Not sure profiling would have made any difference here. My theory is that the Valium prescription was a deliberate measure to steady the shooters nerves, and decrease inhibitions prior to the attack – not a long term thing, or something the shooter was taking regularly.
The guy was a pro, or certainly planned like one.
Planned? Maybe. Executed? Definitely not. Long range automatic fire might have been effective in the first few second of the attack when he was firing into a packed crowd, but a decent marksman with a semi-auto could have caused far more casualties and would have had the area locked down for hours as they desperately tried to find him. Only the shooter’s obvious lack of experience with firearms resulted in him being located at all. Anybody who has ever fired a large volume of shots in an enclosed space would have known about the smoke detector issue and would have taken precautions.
Be thankful this clown was just some psycho and not a trained ISIS jihadi. The body count could have been a lot higher. An ISIS strike team like the one that hit Paris would have been devastating.
He may have been an amateur but he was extremely effective for an amateur. Nobody ever saw him coming.
This analysis depends on the motivation for his attack, which we do not know as yet.
If his motive was simply to go down in history as the greatest mass murdering shooter in American History then the argument could be made that he could have accomplished this more efficiently with aimed fire.
If the motive was terror, this goal was achieved in spades. Death and injury has forever raised the fear of such attacks and WILL change how we act, react, and congregate far into the future. Blithely joining massed groups of people congregated in confined spaces to create a “Soft Target” for terrorism will either become a thing of the past or a separate category in the annual “Darwin Awards.”
If the motive was not to set the stage for future terror concerns, it still achieved those ends admirably.
Ya, know, if my choice is giving up liberty and freedom in order to be safe, I think I’ll stick with liberty and freedom.
Oh Garrison…if only the rest of our “citizenry” felt the same as you and I…if only…
People give freedom lip service, they prefer safey. This is not new, it has existed since the beginning of our nation.
The rugged individualist, who made this country, is an endangered species, soon to be extinct. Too bad.
And the history of the last century has proved that you will get the government everyone else in your country deserves unless you’re prepared to kill enough of them to scare them away from the polls.
None of the mass murdering dictators of the 20th century announced what the end game was when their political parties started gaining traction. And the idiots cheered wildly at their rallies.
The legend goes that the Spartan Lycurgus replied to the man who suggested that Sparta should be a democracy with “Begin with your own family.”
I’m not criticizing the sentiment, but be aware that I don’t see any of the sheep wanting to leave you and your liberty alone at all. What’s the use of risking your life out on the town when your neighbor is informing on you while looking out his window?
This is something the patriots of the revolution period understood well, and they drove out the tories in many places because they understood the extreme danger that they posed as silent, hostile informants for the British.
If you think the line is getting crossed, be aware that you may need to “Begin with your own neighborhood.” If you live in an awesome place and you would bet your life nobody near you would betray you for $10 million and a free relocate, then some of us will need help with the people around us who would vote for Stalin if he showed up tomorrow.
Agree with you on profiling. But, the other suggestions could have helped greatly.
If the “Security Guard” working for the hotel had been armed even with a handgun, and trained and instructed to engage immediately, this entire attack could have been prevented!
Even if that had not occurred, a couple trained riflemen on the grounds could have at least cut this attack short. They would have recognized the sound as gun fire (not fireworks) immediately and pinned him down at least.
The coward would have likely ended his miserable evil existence at the first sign of armed response. These pieces of human shit usually do.
This is pretty simple stuff really. We just need to actually listen to trained security advisors that do this type of thing for a living. Would certainly do more good than banning inanimate things.
Our politicians would probably be right on top of these ideas if they didn’t have all that gun banning to do.
Or their heads up their asses where the lack of oxygen keeps them from thinking creatively rather than like 5 year olds.
I assure you, sir, that my six and four year olds are plenty creative. Just the other day my daughter drew a unicorn-dinosaur with wings on my white board. Ask a congresscritter to do something like that and they’d probably just sit down and sniff the marker….
Both sides of isle are also busy on figuring out how to legalize 10M illegal aliens. Priorities!
The screaming politicians don’t care about the victims. They want to be seen as the heroes who took down the mean old NRA so they can ensure that their useless careers will continue.
All of these ideas require recruiting a more intelligent level of security and/or law enforcement personnel than we typically do here in the US. The El Al folks who profile passengers getting on flights are clearly some very sharp folks, who notice very small details – and then they start pulling on threads to unravel a whole sweater in a minute.
That’s not who we hire in TSA, Homeland Security, the FBI, etc.
Then you have our idiot legislators – none of whom seemed to know that bomb-sniffing dogs were not machines – ie, they never realized that bomb-sniffing dogs need a break every so often.
Step 0: Hire some people with an IQ above room temperature.
We fired this incompetent probably mentally ill guy where I worked. He called up later and thanked us. Otherwise, he would not have found a job screening passengers at LAX.
You have a very valid point. George Carlin spoke of this years ago.
However, it’s also true that no matter how smart the people we hire are they have to be allowed to do their job correctly. Profiling is effectively illegal at this point because it’s “discriminatory”. That’s dumb and as long as that rule stays in place you could have Albert Einstein, Blaise Pascal and Issac Newton all working and designing security to little avail.
The same is true of arming security, to a point, we choose the PC way of doing things over the smart way. Yes, again you have a very valid point about low IQ people being involved in this but part of it is also societal. We, as a society, seem to desire both absolute safety (an impossibility) and also absolute bliss at the same time (never seeing a scary gun).
I agree 100% with you but some of it is also telling the dumbass people in the public to reach down deep in their pants and find a set of balls. Or not, whatever, but society’s a changin’ and you’re gonna need to sack up and join the rest of us in the real world where sometimes you see things that might make you uncomfortable or just stay home where you can cuddle your teddy and suck your thumb.
The problem begins in the business world. You might expect that large companies would hire the smartest people they can find, but that is far from the case. After a redundancy twenty years ago, I went through the recruitment stage at our country’s largest telecommunications firm. I went through all recruit testing, then was told I was no longer required.
When I went up to the recruiter to ask why, I was told I had scored higher in testing than anyone they had ever had. This made me unsuitable for the job. I left wondering what the world was coming to.
I understand this is typical HR policy. Only hire semi smart people who will follow orders and not ask questions. No thanks.
We are talking scale here. C’mon, we are a country of 300 million with a VERY dramatically larger physical footprint. With MANY more public events that are essentially all soft targets and that’s not counting the malls. We are also a free society with a very diverse population. None of the measures presented offer a practical answer to shootings of any kind.
We don’t want to give up liberty for the illusion of safety IMHO.
Well said. Just about sums up my thoughts.
Changing building design and security checkpoint (they ain’t going away) design while actually using threat profiling is a threat to freedom?
Yeah, cause random checks of grannies and little kids isn’t? Please, these things aren’t going away but they can be made far more effective and less intrusive than they currently are.
Is the OP honestly suggesting that hotel guests be routinely profiled, or that armed private security intervene, detain and interrogate patrons of public accommodations, and that counter snipers be deployed at the 10s of thousands of large public events occurring annually in the US?
In a small, relatively homogeneous population who’s primary threats come entirely from one religion and mostly from 2-3 recognizably different ethnicities/races, with less liberty and greater authoritarian control, with universal military conscription, I’m sure this works. However, in the US there are nearly more soft targets than there are citizens in Israel. In the US appearing nervous or excited in public isn’t cause for detention or interrogation, and there is sufficient competition in virtually every sort of industry to make unilaterally annoying customers with burdensome security financial suicide.
In a free country and open society, with 300M+ citizens, 58 killed and 500 wounded every several months even is statistically insignificant and certainly NOT cause for surrendering liberty for the illusion of security. It is hardly cause for concern. Safer cars and drivers, eliminating smoking and better regulating healthcare would all save far more lives.
The Middle Eastern police state needs to stay in the Middle East. No thanks to any Israeli security practices.
Yeah. Why would we want to use effective methods when they could hurt my precious feefees?
Question for the Author. Can the SpotLite system be spoofed by muffle devices or silencers? Serious question as I don’t know.
It’s past time for everybody, everybody in America, to open carry. Including rifles. All citizens should have the right to carry everywhere except jails, loony bins and courts with criminal trials ongoing. Including businesses. If business owners don’t like it they can shut down their business.
Between antifa, lunatic shooters and the progressives we have more valid reason to go armed every day than settlers 150 years ago.(I know, the 3 examples I give are actually one and the same)
From your keyboard to God’s ears… Another thing we need is proper firearms education in public schools. Proficiency, not just safety (safety first obvs).
Exactly. Open carry of rifles by citizens is the only real thing that can stop this or a Dallas style attack. Police departments don’t have the money or skill pool to draw from, to provide counter snipers everywhere. If you are the counter sniper, then the game changes dramatically.
A well equipped man could have stopped it in seconds with this: https://www.tracking-point.com/shadowtrax8/
I’d like to request a TTAG review on these weapons.
I like the idea of universal carry including rifles, but let’s not pretend it would have stopped this attack. Probably nothing would have prevented most of the deaths in this situation. Nothing any of us can carry will ever protect us from an ambush from above.
Here’s an idea: If your location is a LEGALLY designated Gun Free Zone you must clearly define the limits of that zone by signs and/or a painted border inside which firearms are not permitted. This includes schools.
People who open carry can stand JUST OUTSIDE this border while waiting for their children to leave the school or their friends, for whom they are on over-watch duty, to complete whatever business they must enact within the zone.
Same goes for businesses. If you designate your business as a Gun Free Zone you must ostentatiously delineate the exact limits of your legal space, outside of which anyone may be armed to the fvcking teeth. If someone wants to go into the bakery (RF) for a specially tasty treat that cannot be acquired anywhere else, a friend stands outside the designated GFZ on guard while the transaction transpires. The more visibly armed, the better. And on completing the transaction mention to the proprietor, pointing to your friend, “You would have sold TWO of these if you allowed him to come inside.
Epidemics and socialist-communists have been the leading cause of involuntary slaughter in recent times. Guess which one has been consistently calling for the banning of guns?
Interesting, but not all that practical. What works for the President simply does not scale up to protect everyone at every resort, festival, and other mass gatherings.
What works in a country of six million and smaller than New Jersey also doesn’t scale up to a country the size of America, with 325 million people spanning six time zones.
Unarmed hotel security is a travesty, I’ll concede, but 24/7 SEAL Team 6 counterterrorism coverage is ridiculous. First, it isn’t cost effective. Second, you’d scare guests away with that kind of firepower display. And, no, you can’t just keep Rambo in a broom closet until needed. People would know they’re there, they would be uncomfortable, and word would spread of the hypervigilance.
Pretty sure there is something in between un-armed guard and SEAL team six that could be cost effective and effective.
Not cost effective. Having lived in Las Vegas, just by itself, you would need to cover 10-20 events the size of the country concert a week. Pro sports, college sports, high school sports, where do you draw the line. In November that would be a couple hundred teams just to handle football and basketball at various levels, another few hundred for concerts and festivals. But that isn’t the limit, you need replacement, on call, logistics. Then you cover things like the pulse nightclub, San Bernadino, schools, etc, so that’s a few thousand more.
So if a team has 15 people fully loaded front end and back end, and you need say 2k teams for full time coverage nationwide, that’s 60k full time people, @$85k for fully loaded employee cost, $10k/person for initial personal equipment, $25k/person for annual training, $500k for initial team real estate build out and vehicles, $500k in incidentals….blah blah.
You know, size of the Marines basically, to address a problem of what size.
Or you don’t do any of that
Aren’t these types of threats what the militia is for. A well regulated militia.
We need the sheeple to get used to having a few good riflemen at every large event and other soft targets.
Also, isn’t there a rail-mounted device that detects and locates gunshots? I thought I saw a manufacturer’s video of the device.
Here’s the thing: Sky Marshals. If such a team, or even two such teams, existed and was well publicized but discreet in the deployment, anyone contemplating mayhem would have no way of knowing WHICH VENUE was going to be covered. If you make planning the event include the possibility of running afoul of the Las Vegas Deal Team Six (pun intended) you greatly complicate the scenario and eventually they will go looking for softer targets.
This is the equivalent of effective concealed carry. The bad guy never knows when he enters the room if there are no guns, one gun, or 50% armed victims. When the paranoia factor becomes great enough he will change occupations or at the very least change targets.
In addition, if you include people at your venue that look like they MIGHT be part of the elite security team (give them free tickets) you increase the paranoia factor in the potential bad guys.
It’s not like there aren’t plenty of retired SpecOps guys out there who cold use a job.
Bonus: By doing this you also employ more Good Guys with Guns.
I have some experience with Mandalay Bay security personnel (don’t ask). They range from low IQ angry bouncer types to unassuming mall security types.
Say, come to think of it, that’s the same profile for Metro LV police.
Well MY big idea is avoiding large public crowds with no way or means to protect me and mine. And yeah I did all that crap in my younger daze. Stupid people,stupid places and stupid laws barring being armed…PC will get you killed.
Big agree. The average victim was past 40. What bone idle gadfly flies to LV, pays a few HUNDRED $ to stand up thru some silly ass concert/get drunk? Adults are supposed to out grow this BS by 25. And all the Vegas mob’s nonsense. Find something to do productive and useful.
Profiling g will never make it past the PC police. Speaking of police, proper training and better security will never happen as long as Americans remain Americans. That is to say lazy, aloof and cheap yet shady. Look no further than police training and the joke that is the TSA. Do the Israelis have regular scandals like we do with our secret service, feds, ATF and other g-men? Ours are all unfunny punchlines to jokes nobody wanted to hear in the first place.
It’s just easier to shit all over the average live and let live law abiding citizen. That way when nothing changes at least they can say they did “something.”
Its about damn time somebody wrote something of substance and accuracy about threats!! I fully agree with every word of this article. This country has turned into a bunch of cry babies. God forbid anyone gets the feelings hurt…
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN; FRIEND DAVE. AND ALSO AMEN, AMEN, AMEN TO THE AUTHOR, BROTHER RON GROBMAN!!!!
It’s interesting, I’ve talked to my fair share of rental cops they get paid to “monitor and report” in the places I’ve gone (data centers.) I’ve been told by a couple of them that carrying a gun typically puts you in a worse location but doesn’t even pay any more. Seems kind of dumb to me.
That said, the fact we DO NOT have security like he is talking about is a testament to how little violence there really is in the US, and how isolated these incidents are.
“fidgeting, whistling, sweaty palms, a cold penetrating stare, rigid posture and more.”
Umm. That’s me. Although I am not a violent person. I gotta stop fidgeting though. Girls don’t like that.
OUTSTANDING ANALYSIS POST BY AN OUTSTANDING FELLOW. THANK YOU, DEAR SIR.
AND THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE WERE FOR THE MOST PART VERY MUCH RELEVANT AND MUCH APPRECIATED.
ONE FACT WAS NOT ADDRESSED; THAT BEING THAT DEATH AWAITS EACH OF US AND THAT FACT NEEDS ADDRESSING. ETERNITY IS OUR FUTURE; WHERE WE SPEND IT IS CRITICAL. 58 SOULS, IF THEY COULD, WOULD ADMONISH EACH OF US TO MAKE THAT A MATTER THAT MUST BE ‘ON THE TOP OF OUR LIST FOR CONSIDERATION.
THIS LAS VEGAS MASS MURDER YET AGAIN UNDERLINES THE REALITY THAT OUR LIFE IS SUBJECT TO CEASING IN AN INSTANT AND THE ETERNAL DOMICILE OF OUR SOUL IN EITHER HEAVEN OR HELL SOLELY DEPENDS ON OUR PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR CREATOR, OUR TRIUNE GOD; ONLY OUR FREE WILL INDIVIDUAL RELATIONSHIP THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST THE SOLELY DETERMINING FACTOR. IN AN INSTANT OUR LIFE CAN BE SNUFFED OUT AND THE STATUS OF OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS FROZEN FOREVER.
BE PREPARED OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES . . . FOREVER.
James Allen Wyatt, Jr., 11/27/1937
BASED ON OVER 74 YEARS OF SHOOTING, OUR FIRST CENTERFIRE HANDGUN AT AGE 14 YEARS, An M1911 .45acp that came through WWII, the lessons learned which included working in 8 or 9 STAUNCH ANTI-GUN STATES, was ALWAYS GO ARMED. AWAY WEARING TOTALLY CONCEALED, utilizing THE READILY AVAILABLE QUALITY INSIDE THE WAISTBAND KYDEX HOLSTER, ALWAYS HAVING ONE OR TWO SPARE FULLY LOADED MAGANIZES AS WELL AS A ‘FIRST RESPONDER’ TYPE KNIFE READILY AT HAND,
AND ALWAYS BE EVER ALERT “OPERATING WITH A “YELLOW AWARENESS MINDSET” AND LASTLY ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS SEEK ALWAYS TO BE A ‘GREY MAN OR WOMAN’ ALWAYS “BLENDING IN” RATHER THAN ‘STANDING OUT’, never, never, never ATTRACTING ATTENTION!!!
James Allwn Wyatt, Jr., Miss. State Univ. Class of 1961!
AHHHH, WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME
I’ve spent a lot of time in Israel. While it’s true that in the airport equal scrutiny is applied to all, profiling based on race or ethnicity is rampant elsewhere in Israel. Our cream colored redheaded Jewish family breezed through West Bank checkpoints far faster than the Palestinians did.
Here’s the kicker: I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.
“Our cream colored redheaded Jewish family breezed through West Bank checkpoints far faster than the Palestinians did.Here’s the kicker: I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing.”
Then stop complaining about it. the so-called “palestinians” aren’t even supposed to be there. They have FIFTY MUSLIM NATIONS.
There’s only one for Jews.
1. Profiling (re: in the context given…It’s NOT a crime to be a nervous person…Some people have physical health problems. Some people are prone to get panic attacks..Doesn’t make them a prohibited person, a criminal, a nutjob, or a psycho.)
While the security measures suggested might improve security somewhat – assuming that it WAS implemented correctly, which is highly unlikely in the US law enforcement system – they cannot render these events impossible or even infrequent (which they pretty much are already.)
No one is going to spend the money applying Secret Service level protection to ordinary social events. It’s just cost prohibitive. Only very large events with a decent budget might have the capability of doing so – and that just redirects the attacks to smaller but still mass events.
Law enforcement in the US is already considering placing snipers at major events. That is certainly doable. That doesn’t stop mass attacks, it just reduces the body count assuming the snipers positions allow them to target all the likely attack points. Once it becomes common knowledge, mass attackers will shift to other means. How are you going to put snipers in every auditorium in the country for every concert?
As someone noted above, applying Israel profiling efforts at all the necessary locations in the US would also be prohibitively costly. Also, Israel applies its profiling mostly to persons of Arab descent. They have a specific demographic to be concerned with. With the demographic variations in the US, this would be far less effective here and would likely quickly swerve to being discriminatory. We’ve already had ridiculous episodes of people who even look like Middle Easterners being forced off planes for merely speaking their language or ANY language not recognized by some ignorant American. How many Sikhs have been attacked for wearing a turban?
Training a handful of Israeli profilers is a lot easier than training the entire TSA in competent profiling.
The same applies to armed and properly trained security. Most organizations pay minimum wage or slightly above for security guards. Paying security guards fifty thousand a year or more and paying for their training will simply not be considered by most organizations.
And finally, given the relative rarity of this level of mass shooting, the cost-benefit analysis isn’t there. This fact has been recognized for airport security and the TSA itself which has cost billions and done almost nothing to stop terrorism in general, and it is uncertain how much it has stopped airline specific terrorism.
Bottom line: As I’ve said before, “You can haz better security. You can haz worse security. But you cannot haz ‘security’. There is no security. Deal.”
Having check in stations at all hotels where guests can check their guns where they’re be locked securely on site Is basically what’s done (minus the secure lock up) at all court houses. When I had a heart attack, I was carrying my licensed Glock. I informed the ambulance paramedic who told me to be sure to tell this to the ER personnel which I did. There was no panic, a security guard came and took my gun and it was locked away until I left the hospital. I retrieved it shortly after leaving the hospital with no problem at all. So there’s the proof that gun check ins work. An armed security presence is essential of course.
Hotels are required to comply with National Fire Safety regulations. They are not required to maintain equal safety from the illegal use of guns on hotel property. TIME FOR THAT TO BE CHANGED and I don’t mean when the politicians “agree” to “get around to it” either.
Security staff trained in profiling identify, monitor, approach and question a “person of interest.” They ask simple questions and observe both verbal and nonverbal responses. If they establish probable cause, they can detain the person for further questioning and investigation.
And they are imperfect, prone to jump on conclusion and can be real pain in the ass. BG airport security force is a textbook case of job conditioning.
It is valid method, but it comes with a price.
BS. You must have given them attitude. Next time don’t go to Israel, go to Iran where you will be more comfortable.
How’ Israel doin on rocket attacks?
Better security is the mother of escalation, and more spectacular aholes. Armed response is the answer but who’s bringing it should remain the one who’s receiving the threat. Know who could do the most damage? The inside man, so don’t let the POS (D) hire [or pretend to be, your “protectors”].
In the 10/01 incident, window break sensors would have beat the smoke detectors by ~ a few rounds?
[Side Note] Shoots himself after firing 200 rounds at security guard??? No death by cop, no Butch and Sundance charge??? LUCKY (No one needed to be evacuated from the floor while the unarmed guard tiptoed up to the room where there was reported gun fire emanating from two smashed out windows??? armed or unarmed) that guard was lucky, So was anyone across the hall, 10 PM shooting, and not a scratch on the neighbors? Hmm? Motive for shooting unknown or unreportrd in over week? Profiling AFTER THE FACT has not even been possible.
Bottom line, a few people had to die before they could PID and take out the bad guy, a few people should have to die before they disarm and hamstring the good guys.
“I don’t know the quality of the Mandalay Bay hotel staff security, nor their training regime. But it’s high time America stopped deploying overweight, under-trained, unprofessional, unarmed people to protect the public….”
You very clearly have no experience with the legal side of private security in the US. The insurance lobby has made absolutely sure that private security in America amounts to professional tattle-tales because by offloading all threats onto the police, they also offload THE LIABILITY. And since that’s the level of work required, the pay is on par with the service, and the near minimum-wage pay with attract minimum-wage level people. Who then have to pass the same background checks as regular law enforcement.
Cops get government legal cover to shoot people. Armed security enjoys nothing of the sort.
Say What? Those tactics may work in Israel, but not here in U.S.A., what would have worked in LV ? How about a BVD security system coupled with the WEDGIE tug. Even if he was prepared for the SCROTUM PINZER , I doubt hotel security would have missed that? To many people rely on the police force to help find their chicken, by simple observation you can tell if a Crayfish is a Crawfish, is a Crawdad or Mudbug salted and served with pepperspray as an alternative to Cadmium battery’s, C or D they still produce 1 and 1/2 volts. Under garments gets crusty after two weeks of constant wear and if it wasn’t for high speed hollow points FMJ’s would be crosscut. Kidgionpity gets rid of cats as well Blastabox and a twelve gauge shotgun automatic works better then common snapping turtle. It could be that America is in a transmission problem because why won’t Mercron substitute for type F? So therein lye soap because frog legs twitch when you fry them
You forgot to mention that the doghouse has 23 shingles on it’s roof and that oranges aren’t really bananas.
Point 1 Profiling: Works against muslim terrorists….if applied properly. Would have had zero impact on the Las Vegas
shooting. Paddock was about as close to a “gray man” as exists. There was essentially NOTHING about him
that would have drawn any more attention to him in Nevada than it would to thousands of other middle aged
white men.
Point 2 Armed Security: NEWSFLASH virtually EVERY major hotel and casino in Vegas HAS armed security.
The bigger ones usually hire former LEO, special forces etc. Again…..this would have made NO DIFFERENCE.
The first hotel security on scene was unarmed….because not ALL of them need to be armed. He was just the unlucky schmuck sent to investigate a disturbance. He was also lucky in that he was only shot in the leg. After he
radioed for help LV Metro PD officers arrived…..and THEY were held at bay waiting for SWAT. So in this case again
the recommendation of this “expert” is inaccurate and pointless.
Point 3 Better Security at public events: Is this “expert” from Israel going to foot the bill for this? He drags up
the insane and inane comparison of daily event security to a visit by a POTUS and Secret Service protocols. Does
this nimrod have ANY IDEA how much that level of security costs and how HUGE an impact implementing it has on
the actual activities of mere mortals who aren’t part of the political elite? It is IMPOSSIBLE to provide that type of security, screening, overwatch and tactical resources to every major public event that could be targeted by a malcontent or a terrorist.
In short the idiot behind this bullshit has demonstrated just how IGNORANT and inexperienced they are.
In reality there is NO WAY short of GUTTING our civil rights completely and turning America into a giant
gulag to prevent attacks such as the one in Las Vegas. Short of a pogrom against freedom that would make
Stalin and Mao smile it CANNOT BE DONE.
This is just a silly proposal. The logistics and cost are just completely unrealistic.
As crappy as Vegas, Pulse, etc are, the actual risks are minuscule, and risk mitigation is impractical. Some risks just exist in our free society.
It occurred to me that if the location of Paddock had been known, which would have been aided by any number of shot-spotter technologies, the most effective way to prevent him from firing might have been to blind him with spotlights or strobbing laser ststems, which could be completely automated, and pre-stagged at any event to be pointed at tall structures where a threat would likely be located. He might have continued to fire blindly, but firing senselessly was clearly worse, and shutting off the lights on the ground very likely contributed to additional deaths as medical aid was delayed by the confusion and darkness.
It is all about $$$$$. People are quite happy that a Basketball player gets a Contract of 200 million dollars, but balk at paying for trained security. The only concern that Casinos have regarding security is to stop people stealing their money. They could not give a crap about keeping their customers safe. Concerts, Sports events, all the same. It is about the bottom line. Security is at the level or even below that of janitorial in their minds.
Yes.
But also very much no.
Shooting are actually extremely rare in this country taken as a whole. A very large percentage of the shooting happens in easy to id areas. The saying stupid people in stupid places playing stupid games sums it up best.
So while security is important and we should all take it more seriously, we don’t need Secret Service level security at every event to try and prevent the one-in-a- million chance of a crazed gunman.
What would work much better is allowing armed citizens to remain armed in more places. The shooter ended his spree when challenged by a guard who wasn’t even armed so how much quicker could he have been stopped by someone in the crowd returning fire?
“… so how much quicker could he have been stopped by someone in the crowd returning fire?”
Not even one second quicker; no one on the ground knew where the shots were coming from … and the concept that people in the crowd pulling weapons, even if they never fired a return shot, is a recipe for a slaughter.
Had I been in that crowd, I would never even have considered pulling a weapon.
Agreed. Returning fire from the crowd would endanger multitudes of people, not to mention would jeopardize any LE attempting to neutralize the threat, and confuse the LEO’s, who would assume you were an accomplice or at least an additional threat to contend with. The possibility of missing and accidentally hurting a hotel guest is also great, given the distances involved. This scenario is not an argument for personal carry IMO. Had anyone returned fire, it would only strengthen the left’s position, unless by some miracle, the attacker would have been stopped.
Additionally, the economics of providing sufficient cover for this kind of attack is daunting. I’ve been to this style of concert many times. and often thought it would be mayhem if someone were motivated to attack. I tended to have an escape plan in that event, but realized that I would be just as likely to be trampled as anyone else.
My heart goes out to these concert-goers who were indiscriminately hurt and killed. I don’t have any words of consolation for them. I don’t know how to tell them that what happened couldn’t really have been prevented. I know that explaining how the chances of this happening are very, very slim will sound. I know that any explanation, or reasoning will build a case for restricting 2a rights. There will be no winners here.
The idea of the average security guard with a gun makes me more nervous than the average citizen walking around with a gun. An ordinary citizen knows he’s just an ordinary citizen. Security guards perceive themselves to have “authority.” I’ve been harassed by a private security guard at a public library simply for taking too long in the bathroom near closing time — he didn’t think “I’ll be done when I’m done.” was an acceptable response. The exchange got pretty heated as I’m not one to quietly be bullied by some official jerk while I’m trying to take a crap. The guy was just the sort of overbearing bully for whom combining perceived authority with a gun would be bad.
Poor argument. Stating that all security officers are authoritarian wannabe jerks is no different than saying that all doctors or mechanics or janitors behave the same.
Your reply was designed to antagonize.
Next time try “I’m almost done, I understand you’re closing up, I will finish up as soon as I can, thanks!” and simply punish him with the stink when you open the door.
The last time I heard a “I’ll be done when I’m done” was from a douchebag bully in the 8th grade, who oddly wound up “tripping” on the steps… …at least 3 times, if I recall, before he learned his lesson.
Only the third point was valid … neither profiling nor armed security would have been of any use.
That being the case, the question is ‘why were the police so woefully unprepared’, and by “unprepared”, I mean to the point of criminal negligence.
It’s not like mass-murder hasn’t been committed at open-air events – concerts even – before, is it?
It’s a poor man indeed who cannot learn from another who seems to just do things better. In the area of security, Israel has no rival. Since we now face a threat similar to the one Israel has faced now for about 70 years, shouldn’t we defer to the expertise they have learned by practice? I know that, if I ever fly to the Holy Land, I will gladly pay what it costs to make sure I travel with El Al. They know what they are doing.
One has to wonder whether the use of suppressed firearms would impair the ability of the SpotLite system to locate the source of the shots. If so, opponents of loosening the restrictions will seize on that to argue for continued restrictions (ignoring that a guy with $100K on hand to wore to his girlfriend could easily afford to come up with some way of suppressing his guns if he’d really wanted to).
this person was right on the money would his suggestions. I have been saying the same things. he happens to be right on all accounts . the hotel and event managers should be getting sued, not the maker of the stock. the hotels and event managers lack of security and forward thinking in the day and age of terrorist attacks should have known better and taken measures to prevent this. it is their fault through their total lack of thinking that allowed this to happen. and like I said before this terrorist could have had a PVC pipe and made a homemade rocket propelled bomb or bombs and did even more damage. and given the past events of what happened in france they ( hotel and event management) should have known and taken measures to have this concert somewhere else and with better security controlling access . the maker of the stock should not be sued, put the blame in the right place and sue the hotel.
1. The Hotel should not be sued…this is total bullshit. How could they know this would happen? They are not prepared to face an individual or TEAM of people with that much firepower. The security personnel is only there to get rid of the drunks that damage property and to be “professional” witnesses in certain instances…they are NOT there to protect the public. They are there to protect the HOTEL image.
2. Counter Sniping would work….is it needed ? NO. How many times has this occurred? none. Although i think the Casino COULD have a response team, you get into problems of WHO makes the call to deploy, since its a PRIVATE security…in THAT case the HOTEL would be liable for any wrongdoings…injuries to others in response to a threat…so they default to the LOCAL PD.
3. Tell us HOW this could have been prevented….Profiling 1000’s of people walking in the hotel? not likely since the job becomes monotonous and most security is probably checking out the hot babes walking around. Its not an easy job and to have EXTREMELY sharp security to ID potential threats should ALREADY be in place…considering its VEGAS, a high profile target with lots of people.
The death toll due to terror in Israel is far greater than in the USA. It just happens in small doses. There is no solution to someone in your public common area starting to murder people. If it’s a foreigner then it’s terror if it’s a citizen then it’s treason. You can’t defend yourself that is the hard fact. In Israel the public space is not secured and protected, only specific points like train stations airports and so on. A country that will secure every point will go bankrupt.
LOL! Seriously? You think those three things could be implemented in the USA? I have a bridge I’d like to sell ya. I get your point and yes, theoretically, it’s a good idea. But the reality of doing this on a NATIONAL level is impossible for a MULTITUDE of reasons, here’s a couple. Profiling: Who would be trained to do the screening? How will they be compensated? Who pays for this? How many people would be trained? Where would they be positioned? I’m all for more and better trained armed security guards. Better security at public events: People will not stand for this, they won’t attend and NO ONE is going to hire private counter-sniper teams for such events.
Israel is a small security based nation that was made that way at birth. It is feasible for them, it is accepted and they practice it. Everyone must serve in the military so everyone can be trained then. I suppose if we had mandatory military service requirements we too could get people better trained and situationally aware but fat chance of that happening. The bottom line is this: Nothing can stop a determined person or persons from committing these kind of acts.
In America, you can run down to the corner grocery store for a gallon of milk – without a shotgun on your hip… or being seized by the police. Think long and hard before giving up key liberties – or we will not have a Constitutional Republican Mortal State or Liberal Democratic Mortal Society any more. In the name of Nonviolence, avoiding aggression, and Nonsinning, avoiding harm to others – there is NO Security… only a little Safety that depends on Liberty. In our Empire of Races, Faiths and Non Faiths, Classes, Regions, etc. – the only safe way is keep it an Empire of Liberty. Blessings of the Buddha, the Tao, the Kami (Gods), and the Megami (Goddesses) from this humble little Shinto Shamaness to all who work for Liberty under the Rule of Mortal Law – within the Bounds of the Mortal Law. Cheers!
Comments are closed.