One of the reasons that the AR-15 platform is America’s most popular rifle is its versatility and ease of customization. For most people, changing calibers is usually as simple as buying another upper and swapping it out. And that’s what makes adding 300 Blackout blackout capability to your AR-15 so attractive.
The cartridge has become very popular, and is useful far beyond plinking and range fun. But should you get one?
That depends on a few things.
If you’re someone who uses your AR-15 mostly as a range toy, the best upper for you might be one chambered in .22 LR. The reason? And .22 LR is fun, easy-shooting and dirt cheap. A box of 50 rounds of Remington Thunderbolt is about $4 with tax. A box of 20 rounds of .223 is $10. Do the math. If you’re going to keep a gun for fun, it might as well be cheap fun.
But .300 BLK has become popular because it does so many things so well. And since adding a 300 Blackout upper is much cheaper than buying a whole new rifle and uses the same lower as the standard AR, why not?
Really, it comes down to this: You can shoot .300 Blackout because you have a use for it, or you can shoot .300 Blackout just because you want to. The point here is that if you don’t have a real reason to shoot .300 Blackout and you just WANT to, then yeah! Get a .300 Blackout upper and enjoy.
There’s no law that says everything HAS to be practical. But .300 Blackout is VERY practical…though with some caveats.
The caliber lets you shoot a .30 caliber round from your AR-15 using the same magazines and bolt carrier group, so conversion is simple. It’s fantastic for use with a suppressor. If you go through the process of getting the tax stamp and so on, it actually makes a great home-defense carbine as the round was intended for use as an intermediate range carbine round with a silencer.
With the right ammunition choices, it’s a great home defense gun in rifle-, carbine- and SBR-length barrels.
The caliber has also caught on for use in competition. It’s known for tolerable recoil, which has made it popular for use in suppressed-AR events.
Today, a number of companies make .300 AAC Blackout ammunition that can reach out and touch varmints and targets at 500 to 600 yards without issue. The lighter-grain loadings such as Lehigh Defense’s 78-grain High Velocity Close Quarters comes screaming out of the barrel at 2800 fps; Nosler’s 110-grain Lead Free E-Tip load for this caliber is booking it at 2300 fps from the tube.
However, it does have some limitations as a hunting round. Supersonic loads quickly fall below the 1,000 ft-lb energy threshold that some states mandate for big game hunting, usually well inside of 200 yards. By contrast, .308 Winchester maintains energy in excess of 1,000 ft-lbs to 550 to 800 yards, depending on the projectile.
Granted, I have a different take on this than other people. For one, I live in the West (out here, shots on game are more often 200 to 400 yards rather than 50 to 100 yards) and for two, my philosophy is to err on the side on Hitting The Sucker Hard. Not that placement doesn’t matter, more that you should hunt with a bullet that arrives with enough energy to do a lot of damage…and, obviously, place it correctly.
No, that doesn’t mean I think “it’s .30-06 or go home!” It’s fun to say that to rile people up, but it’s more that the old-school bolt gun cartridges work very well for these purposes. For me and people who hunt in similar locations, 6.5mm Creedmoor is the better choice among the trendy modern cartridges, though it (obviously) can’t fit on an AR-15 lower. (It does on an AR-10 though!)
Since .300 Blackout lacks the case capacity necessary to propel a big-enough bullet to sufficient velocity, it’s not the best choice as a hunting round for Western big game hunters.
At short ranges, though, it’s a whole other story. A properly constructed 220-grain pill is a hammer at shorter ranges. And in the thick brush of the east and southeast, .300 Blackout can, will and has put a lot of whitetail and hogs in the freezer.
If you just want to shoot .300 Blackout because you just want to shoot .300 Blackout, absolutely. If you want to shoot .300 Blackout for practical purposes, it’s great so long as your purpose aligns with what the round is capable of.
Guns, ultimately, are tools as are calibers. Pick the right one for the task at hand.
Don’t agree? Love 300 Blackout and want to tell us about it? Vegan and haven’t told anyone in the last few minutes? Sound off in the comments.
Yes, and then buy a stripped lower, build it out and then you have another complete rifle.
That’s what I did. Did I really need a .300 blackout pistol? Eh. I wanted one though so there is one in my safe. I shoot the 5.56 pistol I built around the same time a lot more but that’s mostly because the ammo is quite a bit cheaper.
I personally think the .300 Blackout is a solution in search of a problem. I also think it, as designed, presents AR shooters with a very unsafe situation because you can chamber a .300 Blackout cartridge in a 5.56-chambered rifle.
There are limits to how big a reduction in diameter you will be able to swage a bullet before the pressure excursion blows out your BCG and possibly blows apart your upper receiver.
Damn… beat me to it. Congratulations sir. You win comment Ninja props for the day.
“you can chamber a .300 Blackout cartridge in a 5.56-chambered rifle.”
Nope, a 300BLK round will NOT load into a 5.56 chamber unless dramatically forced…
5.56 measured at the neck just above the shoulder, 0.212″…
300BLK measured at same place, 0.308″…
As you can see by the measurements it is physically impossible, UNLESS you dramatically force(more than letting the bolt slam forward or even using the forward assist) the the 300BLK cartridge into the chamber thus driving the bullet back into the case…
And yes, I’ve owned and have been shooting 300BLK for about 7 1/2yrs, before commercial ammunition or even commercial brass was available or rare, having to make my own brass and load my own ammunition, and built my own upper…
A number of blowed-up guns will disagree with you. I myself tested this with Snap Caps. You’re correct that a Blackout isn’t a “perfect” fit, but it loads up well enough to allow firing. Enough of a concern to advise caution to newbies.
“A number”
And pray tell what is this number beyond pulling-it-out-of-my-ass-internet heresay? Because while I do see instances, the number of users versus blowouts are pretty much like media psychopaths using firearms versus lawbiding owners– Statistically not enough to move the needle, but one of those talking points pundits just love to role out in an argument.
And even then, you shouldn’t own a firearm if you let this happen. What, you can’t not point the firearm in the right direction? It’s too hard to know what’s beyond your target? Uhg, right ammunition too difficult! Please.
Yes, a “number”. Do with that as you wish. But you know it’s happened, and I’ve seen pics and read cautionary tales from gunsmiths.
I’ve seen the remains of a 5.56 upper this year that would appear to indicate to me that it can be done. Since some people load their .300’s without a roll crimp into a cannelure, even if the .300’s bullet might give a failure to close condition if we examine the dimensions, the lack of a roll crimp might allow the bullet to be forced downwards into the case, which would further increase the pressure problem. The other possibility is the loader/shooter is using a lighter mass bullet, which has a shorter OAL, and would allow the bolt to close.
You have to understand what it’s like some days to be a gunsmith. There are days people come to you with “brilliant” ideas that they want checked for safety and soundness, and they will then argue with your opinions, which makes one wonder “If you didn’t want my opinion, why are you wasting my time seeking it out? Were you just planning on using me as a shield from liability if someone (perhaps you) blew your face off with your idea?”
Then there are other days that people bring you a box of… pieces. Not even complete parts any more, but pieces. Then they want a gunsmith to look at these pieces, hold them up in Carnac-the-Magnificent style,, and answer the question: “Tell me what happened?!!”
Right – perform a seance on a gun, when all I have are incomplete sets of pieces and perhaps a lack of candor from the owner/shooter.
Both of these sorts of customer conversations are time sinks that never make a gunsmith any money…
On paper, (actually in a CAD program like Solidworks) it would appear to me that there are bullet choices and reloading choices (ie, not crimping into the cannelure) that make a .300 Blackout able to get into a 5.56 chamber and the bolt closes sufficiently to allow ignition.
In effect, what is happening is that the .300 BLK is “headspacing” on the ogive of the bullet in the .223/5.56 chamber.
Edit: I just found some pics of how this happens, saving me the cost of doing the same thing: cutting a chamber in a .224 barrel and milling away half of the diameter to show what the cartridge looks like as it headspaces:
https://www.quora.com/Can-I-shoot-a-300-Blackout-cartridge-out-of-an-AR-15-chambered-5-56-223
That looks like a recipe for serious excitement at the range. I love the bullet that was swaged into the bore. That’s just hilarious (to a gunsmith). I’m sure there are people out there who would be asking a gunsmith “Can you get it out of the bore? I really don’t want to buy a new barrel…”
“That looks like a recipe for serious excitement at the range.”
The timing on that comment couldn’t be more *perfect*. Until I read that, I was seriously considering a .300 blk SBR build as a hearing-safe home-defense platform. 8-inch barrel with a can all under the handguard.
So what options do I have for a subsonic 5.56/.223 ‘pill’ from an 8-inch barrel?
Or are there better options?
I personally think a 147 grain sub-sonic 9x19mm round might be preferable to trying to make an overgrown .22 by going subsonic on a .223. But that’s me.
I agree with Dyspeptic. For indoor protection with a can, better to have either a 9mm or .300 BLK in a 7.5″ barrel, depending upon how much oomph you want the bullet to pack on its target.
A standard 5.56 cartridge is optimized for a 20″ barrel (yes, there is a spectrum of performances from different factors, but bear with me before y’all vomit out your comments), so I’ve never understood the notion of taking a .22 caliber bullet in a cartridge designed for super-duper level performance and then hobbling it by using a 7.5″ or even 5.5″ pistol length barrel. It’s like paying for an Acura and then limiting yourself to only the first two gears.
Haz a question:
Exactly correct. The 5.56 only gets its power from the high velocity. Shorten the barrel= way lower velocity = 5.56 becomes a slightly overgrown, louder (MUCH louder) rimfire.
Oh, if it HAD to be done, I guess one could load custom 5.56 rounds with 88 grain projectiles at 900 fps or so (at, what, one twist every inch? better to go with the straight ‘rifling’ and just accept that its gonna tumble in flight), with a slow pistol/fast rifle powder like Blue Dot, but what advantage would it have over a 147 grain 9mm at 900, which is a standard load with a standard twist barrel, PLUS more energy?
The problem was to replace the MP5SD. It did that and then some.
If you can’t keep ammo straight for your rifles, multi-cal ARs are simply not for you. Stick to 5.56, and wear your bib at all times to catch your drool and spit-up. Those of us with multiple functioning brain cells and adult maturity levels have gone through thousands of rounds of 5.56 and 300 BLK without issue.
It kills me how many people get into caliber wars over 5.56 and 7.62×39, then proceed to poo poo 300 BLK completely. In supersonic form, 300 BLK is about 90% of 7.62×39 energy on target, out of your standard AR. Why folks crap all over this concept is beyond me!
This kind of condescending comment is a good way to find a heaping helping of crow on your plate after your next range trip. I have personally seen a number of guns blown up by people who know better and never thought it would happen to them, but the fact is ammo can get mixed and accidents can happen. No need to talk down to anyone!
I gotta agree with Tim. If you’re going to have both calibers (as I do), then you need to employ a mature level of responsibility. It’s the same as expecting gun owners to respect the Four Rules and not muzzle people at the range with their finger on the trigger. If for some reason you can’t hold the gun properly, don’t hold the gun at all.
Have 9×19 150gr jacketed hollow points and in a compact yea it takes the cake for home and self defense. But I’m new to the AR platform. I have a brand new 15-22lr but want to switch uppers with a 5.56 but have no idea if I even can. Be nice to get sum advise and be steered in the direction of where to buy said upper. My email is [email protected] I have cash so plz only email if ur serious about selling and meeting.
Folks crap all over the concept because anything your 300AAC AR can do, an AK can do for 1/2-1/4 the cost per round.
I simply don’t own a 5.56. Weak ass bitch cartridge.
It must be nice to have never, ever, ever made a single solitary mistake in ones entire saintly life!
So is there an anti-brain fart pill you take every morning or were you just born with a superior brain than the rest of us? Have you accidentally ran a red light? Ever failed to yield the right of way when making a left turn? Turned the wrong way on a one way street? If you can have a brain fart on the road you can have one at the range.
Not to mention if you buy a short barrel upper and slap it on your rifle length stock lower, just committed a felony.
Respectfully disagree.
.300 blk is simply misunderstood. As is proven by this article.
If you are going short barrel, OK, 16” is marginal at the outside, AND you need decent general ballistics (a bit better than 7.62×39) AND great subsonic suppressed performance and round availability, then the 300 blk is great, and probably the best out there.
If you don’t need any one of those three things, it’s not a fit for your mission. To me, that mission fits a general rifle with good home defense application.
There, replace the entire article with that, and you’re done.
Built me a 300BLK carbine with an A1 rifle stock, iron sights, used a chrome lined chambered bbl blank from Green Mountain Rifle barrel, gave it a hvy contour on my farms shop lathe.
I grow my own grain and hay for the livestock we raise, deer and bears get into it something awful, plus they pass a couple diseases from their spoor to beef when they all graze together.
Deer, and bears too, eat so much hay before its cut I estimate I’m loosing fodder for approximately 3-4 livestock for each deer or bear. Ever see a bear eat hay? They consume it in vast quantities, at a rate that defies believe, and corn, they are terribly destructive, Plus they bed down in the middle of a hay pasture or crop and mat a lot of fodder down to it can’t be mowed for baling or break the stalks of corn.
Never mind devastating effects of losing the crops, time labor and expense of our truck garden that provides my family with around 35-40% of our yearly food, from these 4 legged pests. One large doe by herself can eat an entire 60 foot row of pinto beans in a few hours. Only recourse is to re-coup those pinto beans in another form: meat in the freezer.
Thats background for the practicality of my results with a .300BLK Out carbine and the sterling results I have experienced using this cartridge and carbine.
I built it rugged and as a simple reliable weapon, to take a licking because I carry it all day everyday. In my search no other carbine has the combination of 200 and under yards killing power, very comfortable weight and fast handling, reliability, and price factor, never mind the great combat proven tough features and accessories of the AR combat carbine. I never have to be concerned with banging it around, hanging it from a tractor ROPR cage, drenched in a summer toad strangler, go sliding off and out the side by side door at 25 miles an hour, dropping into a mud puddle or cow patty when a sling comes loose.
I run Hornady Black 110 grain rounds, and only that, in 10 round Pmags.
Thru regular hunting seasons and kill permits, in 3 years since building this great carbine I have harvested 11, 9 and 5 deer so far on 2019 kill permits, respectfully. Thats a lot of superb meat. We even make our own dogfood from the lesser parts, and that save some serious pennies. All these are one shot and down kills. One taken, by far the longest shot I dared, a doe that kept jumping the electric fence around our garden no matter how we chased her out, I paced 234 steps, went in the chest, rear quartering shot, right out the other side, animal dropped on the spot. Real good tasting too, like grass fed beef good, from all the veggies she ate from our garden.
How I got intoi choosing the 300BLKOUT, my trusty old Ruger .44 carbine I bought in high-school new, wore out over the years of use, the lifter mechanism plum was gutted out. 2 of those lifter mechanism parts are unobtainium.
In thinking what could replace such a great handy killer of a carbine, looking at external ballistics and using common sense, the .300 Blk Out in a light simple AR carbine configuration jumped out like no other rig in terms of duplicating all the features of the Ruger .44 mag to my liking. Man, did it ever! In spades. The best aspect was I got an extra 50-100 yards killing range, way flatter trajectory where I could take out groundhogs, and other vermin on the farm, that was not possible with the .44 mag trajectory. A definite plus, as I use only iron sights for absolute reliability and ruggedness.
It was also a low cost gamble on my part, as in if it didn’t work as I hoped, it could easily be converted into a homestead combat defense carbine by a barrel swap.
So all this chin music about the .300 not a practical or effective caliber, is total BS.
If you have employed a .300 Blk Out as I have, you know how real world effective it is within its effective common sense practical uses and limiting parameters.
Besides, in my experience using a weapon every day to kill things, in practical real active action having to be executed on the spot, within a minutes time or less, 99.9% of the world where I use this weapon, exists under 200 yards. I’m sure out west or less forested places, that is a different critter. But then again, the .300 Blk Out is not the right tool for that job, so making comparisons is apples and oranges.
It is an excellent tool indeed for me and what I need it for. It has worked excellently beyond all my expectations.
I believe honorable mention is deserved for the particular round and brand I’m employing. The Hornady Black 110 grain Amax is an off hand, standing unsupported, a 2-3 inch accuracy round at 100 yards, consistently, it has not once failed to kill what I hit with it, the rounds are sealed at the primers, heavy crimped, a big plus because of the M4 feed ramps, are hard on the bullet, they are of excellent quality components, not one out of the 350 plus rounds fired under every condition has failed in any way. Period. That right there matters. Gun don’t shoot – Its nothing but a lousy club. And compared to comparable high end .308 or 6.5 hunting rounds, at $17 bucks a 20 round box, buying it in 200 round cases, free shipping, it is big money saver. You can afford to get some practice in. We ain’t no wealthy hobby farmers, this is our life, we live as a farming family. Every dollar and penny have to count.
After 3 years now the only thing I am improving with the .300 carbine, is mounting a Trijocon 24mm RX06-14 Reflex Sight, with the amber triangle. An early design of Trijicon’s, but it is M60 tank rugged, needs no batteries, it fits the carbine to a T.
My reason is for low light sighting at dusk mostly, and on darker cloudy days. This is when those 4 legged varmints come out to feed. There’s are no flies at these hours so the field harvested meat remains clean and untainted. I have had to pass up far too many kills due to not being able to acquire a iron sight picture at this time of the day, soon as I put the sights on a target, with a forrest our heavy undergrowth, that dark green at dusk makes the front pin disappear completely. And the old eyeballs are getting older like their owner. The tritium front posts are too thick for this kind of accurate shooting at 100-200 yards.
Finally saved me up enough pennies last week and ordered this fine combat optic. It will pay for itself in jig time with meat in the freezer and canned jars with taters and carrots for the family, and reducing crop loss. Some winters it gets down to the last bales of hay, and we still have snow. Every bale those varmints don’t eat feeds our critters.
All in all, the .300 Blk Out has been a superb caliber for me. There is nothing, looking back in retrospect, that compares in regards to the whole package I’m running. In the AR platform, practical and cost savings are what it is about, real accuracy is top shelf, and it makes a very good defense/combat weapon to boot.
I seen what the light .300 projectiles do consistently. They are lethal with a capitol L.
Buy a .300 BLK setup?
Yes, yes, and yes.
A .30-cal cartridge with the loadout capacity of 5.56. The perfect cartridge in between 5.56 and .308, if you don’t have an AR-10 and want something that puts a bigger hole downrange.
Just remember to properly dedicate and label your mags if you also have 5.56. You don’t ever want to pop a .300 BLK cartridge into your 5.56 upper on accident. That will be a very bad day for both you and your gun.
or… just a thought… you can save yourself a pile of money on ammo and just buy a solid AK. If you shoot the gun at all, the difference in startup costs will disappear after your first 2000 rounds based on ammo costs alone. 300 AAC is a solution looking for a problem. While suppression is nice, sub-sonic 30 cal is a questionable exercise as it neither fish nor fowl. (It’s not as quiet as a sub-sonic pistol cartridge and grossly expensive on a per-round basis for what it brings to the table.) Unless you’re running a super-tactical 9″ barrel suppressed SBR, there are few things that 300 AAC can do that good old m43 7.62×39 can’t for a fraction of the price.
If I was able to buy a dedicated suppressor gun, it would be a .45AARP PCC. (Stupid state laws outlawing ANY ownership of suppressors.)
We won’t even get into the silliness of the fact that a 5.56×45 gun CAN chamber a 300AAC cartridge. (Almost always with spectacular consequences.)
I bought the Daniel Défense integrated suppressed rifle in 300 blackout for this reason. It makes a good short-medium range tool.
Expensive at about $3k, but worth it for me
Huh…I built my own with an 80% receiver and a full kit from PSA, plus added accessories for a grand total under $600. Hasn’t malfunctioned even once, and I love it. May not be a shiny Ferrari in the AR-15 world, but it does the job and is great for training.
Meh… The only reason I would see to put a can on my rifle is either home defense or noise mitigation at the range. For home defense, a .45 AARP SBR will do just fine with no need for a dedicated rifle caliber platform. (Not to mention much better overall indoor noise reduction.) For range noise mitigation, it’s going to be going on a 5.56 or 7.62 full blown rifle anyway.
As I said, 300 AAC is a solution desperately in search of a problem. More or less it was created because people wanted to shoot a 30 cal intermediate cartridge without having to resort to “one of d’em commie gunz”
No, not desperately. A 125g supersonic cartridge has literally twice the muzzle velocity of a similar weight 115g 9mm ball cartridge (10.5″ barrel and 4.25″ barrels, respectively) and four times the muzzle energy. The elongated profile of the bullet allows for penetration of immediate layers, but it quickly veers and tumbles, expanding the wound channel and slowing down considerably. That helps to address concerns about severe overpenetration of walls and bad guys.
No cartridge is perfect for all situations, but my four favorites smallest-to-largest are .22LR, 9mm, .300 BLK, and .300 Win Mag (or its cousins .30-06 & 7mm Rem Mag).
If you don’t like .300 BLK, that’s okay. Just don’t buy it.
If I’m going super-sonic, I’ll go with the much cheaper and more plentiful 5.56×45. 75gr sp pills and 77gr OTM are about as barrier blind as you could reasonably ask for. The only reason to go sub-sonic is suppression and even heavy for caliber 300 AAC loadings are still much louder when suppressed when compared to other options. I’ve had the distinct pleasure of shooting a .45AARP Vector with a can on it and I can tell you that it is probably the quietest gun I’ve shot in my life.
Your arguments seem circular in nature. You said 45 SBR defeats the purpose for a dedicated rifle platform. 300 BLK is ideal as a second upper to a 5.56 AR…not exactly a dedicated rifle platform. I would venture to say it is virtually never a newbie’s first AR chambering. If anything… one could easily flip your argument that another 45 PCC/SBR is unneeded for the guy that owns one 5.56 AR (granted, owners of a single AR probably don’t read this site!)
What does 300AAC do better than 5.56×45?
Suppression
If the goal is suppression, is the 300AAC the best available option?
No.
It’s not rocket surgery.
“We won’t even get into the silliness of the fact that a 5.56×45 gun CAN chamber a 300AAC cartridge.”
5.56 measured at the neck just above the shoulder, 0.212″…
300BLK measured at same place, 0.308″…
As mentioned above… the number of blowed up guns out there would seem to disagree with you.
Darwin at work. If you blow up a 5.56 AR with 300 BLK, maybe shooting isn’t your hobby!
Yes… say hello to Mr. Murphy for me when he makes a gun explode in your smug over-confident face.
“say hello to Mr. Murphy for me when he makes a gun explode in your smug over-confident face.”
One-thousand percent correct.
It must be nice being Mr.fucking perfect…
“Unless you’re running a super-tactical 9″ barrel suppressed SBR, there are few things that 300 AAC can do that good old m43 7.62×39 can’t for a fraction of the price.”
The common pitch for 300 BLK is as a second upper to a 5.56 AR. How is a complete 7.62×39 rifle a fraction of a the price of an upper? Oh. It’s not.
You’re conflating different arguments that don’t really relate to each other.
300 BLK is not a cartridge for doing any one thing superbly. (6.5 Grendel is the superior chambering for AR-15s if ballistic performance is the sole focus. 5.56 will always be the #1 chambering for “tactical” uses.) 300 BLK is a jack-of-all for the AR15 platform. Solid in defensive roles, solid in hunting, can suppress quite well, uses common parts… Versatility is valued by some folks. Especially those that only have a small rifle collection!
If you can’t understand that, I don’t know what to tell you bud.
Hey Tim… Reading comprehension isn’t a strong suit for you, is it bucko? Let me simple it up for you…
AMMO COSTS MONEY
7.62×39 costs FAR LESS than 300AAC
Hey, pwrdork,
Tim’s correct. So if you don’t want to buy a Blackout for yourself, then don’t. Nobody’s making you do anything. Stop bitching about your perceived superior knowledge about calibers.
You like it? Buy it.
You no likey? Don’t buy it.
Simple.
But how would that make him feel the surge of power that he gets from acting like a know-it-all?
Unless it’s your money they’re spending don’t worry about it. Some of us don’t mind paying the extra premium for blackout versus 7.62×39. Some of us actually prefer the AR platform over the AK without getting a bastardized AR in x39. One thing doing something better or more economically than another doesn’t invalidate either. As for me, I’ll keep my 5.56 AR, my AK, and my .300 AR and not worry about the cost of shooting any of them.
Don’t like it, don’t buy it….pretty simple. Or you could waste time arguing on the internet why you think others shouldn’t buy it. No one with a blackout cares, and no one considering buying one is taking your opinion as the gospel.
In response to the premise that 7.62×39 is cheap.. I use brass and Silver Bear 7.62×39 which are more costly but more efficient. I won’t shoot anything but brass cased 7.62×39 ammo in my Windham AR and I found the Silver Bear to be cleaner with far fewer failures in my AK. Those who advocate for Wolf to start making 300 blk ammo is a joke, I tried to shoot a box of 20 rounds of Wolf .223 in my Mini-14 and wound up with 4 split cases and 2 fail to fires, I will NEVER advocate for that crap. Have used Red Army and Tula in the past with great success and push comes to shove I would use their steel case ammo if nothing else was available.. Finally BlakeW5 is absolutely correct, if you can’t afford to shoot up a bunch of brass cased ammo then shoot what you can, but no matter what get out and shoot.. and don’t concern yourself with what the guy next to you is spending for his or her (or its) ammo…
Finally! Someone said the only thing thing that really matters, shoot whatever makes you happy. “Experts” will offer their opinions all the day long, but as long as you’re doing what you’re doing safely, the bottom line is try whatever you like but get out and shoot!
Erm, about those ammo costs…
I can find bulk fmj 300BLK for about forty-five cents a pop regularly, sometimes less if I’m lucky.
The round isn’t as expensive as it used to be.
And cheap Russian import ammo is rising in price, too.
You’re forgetting why we picked.300 blackout over the ak, the accuracy of the ak is embarrassing. I’ll take my 10.5 pistol in 300 and wipe the floor with a full sized Kalashnikov. So you save all that money on ammo and also on targets because you can use them over and over again. I like hitting what I aim at!!
$10 for a box of 223?!? Been smoking that wacky weed? I paid 5.59/ 20round box of American Eagle at my LGS. A LOT of boxes. And it’s been on sale for a month. If you aren’t stocking up you’re an idiot. I doubt I’ll go 300 BLK. I may get a cheap Savage 308 axis though…anyone have one?
So What’s the Use of 147gr rounds as it’s between the middle of both types(Sub/Supersonic)?
I use the American Eagle 150g rounds for training. I use other brands/grains for other purposes.
While on this subject, what good is 150 grain bullet in a .308? It’s neither the heaviest nor the fastest. So why do people tend to go for the fertile “middle ground”, instead of either 110’s or 220’s? And OFC the same case can be made for any cartridge; Why .223, since it too, is in the middle? Neither a fish nor a fowl, not a .22 Hornet and also not a .22-250 or .220 Swift. Or 140 grain bullets in the .357, since they aren’t as fast as a 125, nor as heavy as a 158.
The answer is: this simplistic argument is insufficient to cover the complexities of this subject. People tend to go for the middle ground, because that is the place where most of them exist. In the real world it’s better to have a thing that can do most jobs passably well, than to have the best possible tool for every job. Over time, one tends to notice that even with THE perfect tool, it’s often quicker and easier to jury rig something than to round up and prepare the perfect tool.
For example, I usually just grind burger with a food processor. Its quicker and easier than digging out the one horse S.S. grinder, and then cleaning it after. Its easier in small quantities. But when I butcher an entire beef, the big grinder comes out. Now, its quicker and easier to assemble, clean, and then re-clean, the big grinder.
it all depends upon the job.
Almost everything firearm related is situation dependent. So, with firearms esp., its better for most to have a few “jack of all trades” guns, than a safe full of “perfect” guns for various tasks, since the perfect gun is always in the safe when one needs it, so you get by with whatever you have at the moment anyway….
Says me, the guy with a 50 gun safe. Just call me an “unmarried marriage counselor”. 🙂 But I’m not “most people”. I’ve been living and breathing guns since 1972, so naturally I have a few more than the average.
Welllll…. the 147 to 150 grain bullet weight for .308/7.62×51 and ’06 were chosen in the timeframe that the .30-06 was being created after the disaster that was the .30-03 was being revealed in field testing.
The Ordnance Dep’t was examining what the German 8mm round, the 7×57 round, and what the Brit .303 were using, and they wanted a bullet that was going to give them the velocity they wanted to flatten the trajectory and penetrate as hard as they wanted in the first 300 meters or so.
The heavier bullets (the > 200 grains in .30 caliber) will have much more curved trajectories, heavier recoil, etc. And they’ll make an ammo load-out heavier to hump for the grunts. The lighter bullets will lose velocity very quickly and not penetrate light armor downrange. The middle ground is an attempt to serve two or three requirements.
“The heavier bullets […] will have much more curved trajectories…”
Yup, and exactly why McMillian offers the CA-legal .416 Rigby as an alternative to the classic .50 BMG. Flatter trajectory.
I guess compromising on weapons and ammo IS a lot simpler than actually trying to teach someone the basics of ballistics/physics and how to shoot…
MaddMaxx: Not even in the neighborhood of the subject under discussion.
Not even in the same State. Barely on the same planet…
I’m a 300 Blackout fan. Deer hunting in MI most shots are well under 200 yards. Mostly 50-100. 300 black works well for the daughter, when she started at 10 and mom switched from 300 win mag to 300 Blackout when she realized she didn’t need to blast a deer apart at 50 yards where she sits anyways(max range 75 yards). I have dropped more deer DRT (dead where they stand) with Barnes 110 grain vor-tx heart/lung than with .270 or 300 win mag using old school lead ammo(generally run 10-40 yards with heart/lung shots). I have 2 separate ammunition cans for my 5.56/300 and they don’t go to range day together. I think the fear of putting the wrong caliber into the wrong gun is overrated, with any amount of caution.
I hear you Griz. Didn’t want to make that mistake either. My solution was getting 20 round Lancer mags. Rather difficult to make the mistake between them Lancers and aluminum GI mags I use for .556
Lancer sells a very classy mag extender in nicely machined aluminum, they secure with a set screw, add 7 rounds to what ever size mag you put them on. The larger outside profile adds to the dis-simularity from the GI aluminum mags adding that much more tactile indication of which ammo I have in my hand.
Lancer mags are quality too. All their products strike me as top shelf.
“Should I Buy A .300 Blackout Upper For My AR?”
Sure, why not…
Exactly, it isn’t a moral choice, it’s just a caliber.
I got a 10.5″ for a pistol build and it is fine. Suppresses well and is fun enough…..I admit I’ve lost interest in it though, since .300 doesn’t offer enough to me to justify ANOTHER caliber, but I sure don’t begrudge anyone having one.
I’ll probably sell it and put the money toward something else I also don’t need 🙂
This is interesting and something I thought of. But I was wondering why someone didn’t develop a .340 so the case would have straight walls instead of the small step it still has. Seems like that would be easier for reloading.
Someone did. It’s called the .350 Legend.
Thanks, I did not know that. Time for a trip down to my favorite gun shop.
Don’t waste your money. Unless you live in a restrictive State which requires straight wall to hunt, 6.5 Grendel would be a far superior choice.
Depends on whether you want it for subsonic use.
Range and groundhogs out to 200 yards. Was thinking reloading straight wall cases would just be simpler than the .223, .223 Wylde or 5.56.
But straight wall cases need a further step, when the mouth must be expanded to receive the new bullet. A bottle neck case can get around that problem by using the extra space below the neck for an expander button, instead of a whole extra step. So it seems to me as if straight-walled cases are harder to reload, not easier.
Not that either are actually hard. I started on .357s back in the 1970’s so I’ve loaded a lot of both types. But I’ve never found a way around that extra step. Nothing the proper size can fit down the case, unless the case has a bottleneck that leaves enough room for the expander ball.
I have reloaded .380, 9mm, 38, 38 spcl, 357 mag, 44 spcl, 44 mag and 45 acp on a lee progressive since 1988. But was warned that the necked cases required lube and an O-Frame press, so I haven’t reloaded any of the .223 or .243 I shoot. I did pick up an O-Frame press and dies for the 22TCM, but haven’t started loading them yet. I thinking learning the extra requirements for the necked cases is a good fall/winter project. My thought was a straight walled case should be able to run off the Lee Pro 1000.
The 22TCM is a fun little puppy to shoot from a 1911, fireball, thunder and almost no recoil. once I get 500 empties, I’ll make a go/no go gauge and be ready to start those up.
Chuckhawks has a nice comparison of a few .350 Legend loads compared to 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, and .300 BLK (https://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_6-5_6-8_300_350.html)
Randy Jones:
You do need to lube cases to avoid sticking one in the die and pulling the rim off. But if you use a rubber lube pad to lube them, it will keep the lube off of the neck area, so that just a bit of powdered graphite lube on the expander ball will keep it lubed, and the inside of the case uncontaminated.
The need for lube isn’t limited to necked cases either. I’ve stuck many .45 and .38/.357 cases. It doesn’t happen as often, but it’s still a risk. In fact, I’ve stuck way more straight cases than bottlenecked ones, but probably because my habit is to lube every rifle case, but only lube the occasional pistol case. So, sometimes I don’t guess quite correctly, go too long without lubing a case, and then stick one. Not the end of the world, but it does mean breaking the press down and going to the shop to remove the stuck case. It’s an annoying time waster.
If the lube issue bothers one, one can always use either solid carbide, or titanium nitride coated, sizing dies. These materials need no lube, but they are more expensive than standard steel dies. Double or more for carbide and half again as much for coated. They are worth it though. IMO, OFC. But in calibers I seldom load, like .32 ACP or .41 mag, steel is fine.
I was wondering when someone would mention .350 Legend. A new cartridge some gun manufacturers are offering in an AR 15 platform. Ballistics show it to be a more powerful and effective round than 300 Blackout.
Think Jeff hit the nail on the head. Been shootin the BLK in my CBC upper for a couple years, still haven’t put a deer in front of it, but the Barnes tac-TX at 2400 fps is very impressive. Shoots 1/2 inch all day long, recovered bullets are scary! Maybe this year.😉
Do you have a can?
Do you shoot inside 200 yards?
If the answer to those two questions is yes you might want a 300blk.
Bonus points: do you reload?
Do you want near 7.62×39 performance out of a standard AR?
If yes, then try 300 Blackout!
Honestly my 300 blk bolt action is what I use most. Light sub Sonic bullets sound like a BB gun and kill critters pretty well. Throw in full power loads and it’s good for deer at moderate ranges. Not exactly the most tactical gun but certainly useful.
I went the 7.62×39 route. Bought a Bear Creek upper and BCG/other parts from my local PSA.
I’m not sure about the ballistics but it’s fun to shoot and ammo is plentiful/cheap. As others have said, this ARAK only goes to range with bolt guns otherwise by itself. I only use specific short mags for it as my other AR mags for 5.56/.223 are all 30 rounders. They are marked as well.
I asked myself that question when I was looking to up grade my AR to a caliber I felt was more suitable for deer hunting. That’s when I decided that what I wanted was a 6.5 Grendel. There’s not a lot of choice in hunting ammo unless you reload, but that’s part of the fun. Very taken with this little caliber and looking forward to deer season with it.
6.5 Grendel is fantastic. Best performing round in an AR15. Ammo choices are nothing like 5.56 or 308, but there is certainly plenty on the market to cover the bases for a typical shooter that doesn’t reload. The nice thing is, all 6.5 Grendel commercial ammo is spec’ed to cycle an AR15… unlike 308 in AR10s…
IMHO the highest and best use for Blackout is for hunting feral hogs. They have become a huge problem in the South. So much for the notion that the cartridge is a useless solution with no problem to solve.
I was wondering when someone was going to mention the hogs. I’ve read that hog hunters love using a suppressed .300 BLK to get those buggers at nighttime.
https://twitter.com/NYPD67Pct/status/1163454399596961793?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1163454399596961793&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnewyork.cbslocal.com%2F2019%2F08%2F19%2Fnypd-gun-bust-seizes-cache-of-34-firearms-in-brooklyn%2F
okay, name those weapons!
Wolf or some other ammo mfr should start making 300 Blackout. They make 6.5 Grendel and it is within a penny/round compared to 5.56/.223 at the low end.
That would be nice with the cheapest factory loads currently being close to 50 cents a pop.
Popular with the more-money crowd I’ve noticed. For all us plebes that find suppressors pointless and not worth the hassle 5.56 is fine and cheap.
In two words,hell yes,heck I’m down to only one 5.56 and that’s up for sale.
Yes, go 300 blk and no I’m not a vegan… For those with concerns about accidentally jamming a 300 blk round into your 5.56 upper and blowing it and possibly a body part or two all to hell just use a little common sense.. I have several different uppers in .22lr, 5.56, 300blk and 7.62×39.. I also have several lowers some off the rack and a couple of hand built custom pieces. The .22 is obvious and the mags are specific, on the other hand the 5.56 and 300 blk are identical externally and use the same mags so I color coded the 300 blk with a white dayglo nail polish marked in several highly visible spots and I also set aside a dozen 30 round mags which I also marked with the same stuff, the 7.62×39 mags are obviously different and require no markings but I did mark the upper with an orange dayglo polish and I use a dedicated lower for it as it is all Windham Weaponry and works very well together.. I also keep loaded mags in separate bags according to caliber.. I have managed to get through a couple hundred range days without mixing something or destroying anything other than my intended target, works for me.. Just sayin’.. The purpose of the dayglo is for night use I have a night vision scope and like to break it out from time to time to time for practice which is difficult (not to mention quite useless) in the daytime…
It’s just fun and also can be a benefit . The 30 caliber bullet is better for some uses like in VA you can hunt deer but with 22 Cal you can’t. It’s up to the individual and your choices like anything.
IMO the AR platform is very vesitile as we all know.
But as to which caliber, I have complete AMs in 5:56, 300 Blackout and 762×39.
If you study the ballistics and the ability to control a rd in any barrel length, 300 and 762 are your choices. 5:56 isn’t much good in barrels less than 14.5″, all accuracy after about 45 meters is lost in 5:56 pistols.
300 good rd for deer or hog little costly.
762x 39 best choice ballistically, right in the middle of all three, cheap to shoot and a great hunting rd with good ammo.
Again IMO
Unless you have a need to shoot subsonic, no. There are much better choices than the BO. The 6.8 and 6.5 both whip it.
I’m not a hunter. But it seems it would be much more ethical to hunt with a 30 caliber rifle. I know folks have hunted with 22 caliber for a 100 years. But how many shots were taken to bring the animal down?
I believe the AR upper can be found in 20 different calibers. I’m trying to decide which one I’m going to get for my AR15.
So many choices!!!
(smile)
Buy it. Buy all the uppers.
So for those who are big into .300, what are the good defense (factory!) ammunitions to watch for?
Barnes tac tx for super, Lehigh defense makes a sub round that looks like a broadhead arrow tip once open. Watch Iraqveteran 8888 on YouTube.
I’ll read up on those. I long for the days of the written word instead of the youtube video.
Expansion tests are better in slow-mo video than pictures of recovered bullets. Personally recovered a few bullets between the muscle and hide on the exit side of whitetail, a deer isn’t much different anatomically than a human and the 110vortx and the tactx are both similar.
Believe it or not, there are some in this world who simply cannot resist the temptation to, how shall I put it, order others around. Conspicious amongst such people seemingly are The Antigun Set. Think that the fact that people are not really interested in the line they are trying to peddle will ever sink in?
I own multiple guns in 300BLK and enjoy the round. I never take a 300BLK gun to the range with 5.56 guns, so that is one way to keep the kabooms away. For trolling purposes I built an AK-74 in 300blk. It’s fairly easy on the brass so it can be reloaded about as many times as if it were out of an AR. It does require the more expensive 5.56 Bulgarian type AK mags. Since I reload, it’s slightly cheaper than 7.62×39 when you shop around for components. It’s definitely easier to make 300BLK subs than hunt down 7.62×39 subs. I initially built it due to potential ammo export bans from Mr. Pen and Phone, and also in case the wicked witch made it into the oval office and got her pen going. I wanted to keep a .30 cal rifle I could easily feed since it would be a while for any significant domestic production to catch up for 7.62×39, if it ever did. I’ll still keep it around as is for now. I need to try it with a can and a KNS gas piston.
I have strongly considered a 300 ak74 for exactly that reason!
TL; DR:
Yes. You should.
I chose the 300 blackout because I want to use an AR deer hunting and most States I’m next to don’t allow the 223 /556 that I already had.
I live in the northeast where most deer are shot 25 – 100 yds away. The option of simply picking up a low cost 300 upper was a no brainer to me.
If suppressors ever become legal in my state, I will certainly have it rigged and ready for home defense. Glad I bought it – very accurate.
And at fifty-five cents a round (Prvi Partizan hollow points) it won’t break the bank. And price is coming down as if grows more popular.
Aside from the suppression issue, 300BO is much better than 7.62×39 in a shorter barrel. However, if I didn’t reload, I’m still not sure I’d go for it. Ammo is stupid expensive for what it is. I have a pile of 223 brass I don’t reload for that I’m steadily cutting down and reforming. It’s a good time killer for late nights.
“Time killer” is right lol. I save my 5.56 brass to convert to .300 in the winter when the my outdoor obligations grind to a standstill. Time consuming most definitely.
Yes, your should have several different uppers and a couple of spare complete upper and lowers
I like the idea, in concept. However, if shooting supersonic, I would much rather shoot the 6.5 Grendel. If shooting subsonic, performance is basically .45 acp with more penetration. So Honestly, I’d rather have a .45 acp PCC.
“And since adding a .300 Blackout upper is much cheaper than buying a whole new rifle and uses the same lower as the standard AR, why not?”
Until you buy some ammo, then you’re in negative territory. 2nd case of 300BO and your almost $500.00 in the hole for comparable calibers and you could still be shooting 308/7.62×51 for less. But hey, at least your having fun showering the ammo manufacturers with your hard earned cash.
training ammo –
.223/556 – 26 cents a trigger pull(brass) – 18 cents a trigger pull(steel)
7.62×39 – 18 cents a trigger pull(steel – who tf would shoot brass in this cal? lol)
308/7.62×51 – 40 cents a trigger pull(brass) – 28 cents a trigger pull(steel)
300BO – 47 cents a trigger pull – no steel option
Appreciate the math lesson BUT, just exactly how is it any of your fucking business how, where and with whom I choose to spend MY money… I could drive a shitbox Kia but, I choose to drive a Lincoln Navigator and screw the extra fuel costs because it’s what I want to do.. So relax comrade your Socialist/Commies are not in charge yet so WE are still free to make those personal decisions that allow us to pursue that happiness thing you might possibly have heard of… This might come as a shock to you but, most of the people that visit/post on this site are just as aware of ammo prices as you are, most can read (I think) and many own more than one gun in more than one caliber. I am touched that you are so concerned about MY money however, I would suggest that you concern yourself with your own finances and don’t bother so much with mine. If, in the future, I SHOULD happen to need your advice on what ammo purchases I should be making I will be sure to give you a shout out but until then mind your own fucking business…
Do you work for one of the ammunition companies selling this snake oil bs? Sure appears like your feathers are ruffled as such.
223 cases necked out to 30 cal case. All old tech repackaged and sold to or by dopes like yourself. Who obviously eat it up or push it out.
A fool and his money are soon parted……
“223 cases necked out to 30 cal case.”
You meant a .30 cal bullet. But I understand exactly what you are saying.
And for the last time, I do not nor have I EVER worked for any arms or munitions manufacturers or any other part of that industry but you are obviously in need of either a REAL job or some serious parental guidance (or both)… You still presume to know what is best for me and my money and once again I must remind you that how I spend my money and what I shoot is none of your fucking business and the very fact that not only do you assume that I’m some kind of fool and your obvious “I’m smarter than you” attitude tells me exactly who and what you are… As far as “old technology” who gives a shit any weapon with a firing pin is OLD technology, a vehicle with a cable attaching the gas peddle to the throttle body is OLD tech, hell any electronic device more than three years old is OLD tech… So, here we are nearing the end of this little bullshit session as I have said all I need to say and you have already achieved boring redundancy with your lame ass response and since you are ovbviously one of those “am not, are too, you are no you are” who must have the last word I yield the floor, it’s all yours big shot… Oh by the way, not that it is any of your business but I happen to be 100% disabled Marine Vietnam Vet…
AMEN!!
@MADDMAXX
You are one narcissistic sob. Might want to talk to someone about that. Probably would make your life easier and make you a little bit less angsty.
I enjoy spreading knowledge to people who may not be aware. If it doesn’t apply to you then move on.
Have a wondrous day 😀
By the way.. I shoot 7.62×39 BRASS exclusively in my Windham AR and Silver Bear in my AK.. So that is who the fuck shoots brass in 7.62×39.. (lol) Another know it all, we have enough assholes in this country trying to run our lives and turn everything that brings us pleasure into a chore.. So who the fuck appointed you in charge of all things ammo, I’d like to have a word with that dumbass…
Who shoots brass in 7.62×39? Anyone who uses a range that prohibits use of steel cased or steel core ammo. Not having an outdoor space of ones own usually results in the range master checking the ammo with a magnet before being able to step out on the range.
Love the haters hating, here. There is always a cabal of them. I’d bet most are FUDDS, NRA members, lusting for Wayne scraps and back rubs. LOL LOL LOL
My only gripe is that quality ammo is still too expensive.
Ammo cost is a big gripe here. I can load 300blk around $ 200 per thousand and 5.56 for 180 per thousand. 8.5″ barrel 300 and 10.5″ 5.56 both suppressed they are fun guns to shoot. And I have not mixed cases yet…. hopefully I wont.
Fire it suppressed, or pick a different round. (Full Stop)
These Neanderthals that get their ammo mixed and have blown up in their faces need to slow down and think. My answer to this “problem” is easy and hopefully dummy proofs this. I use metal magazines for the 300 and use Magpul for my 5.56. Don’t make things harder than they are.
300AAC BO Is becoming the new general purpose cartridge like the .30-30 was100 years ago. It does so with the advantages of being used in common MSR platforms while still having preformance issues/limitations similar to the .30-30.
The subsonic playground it was designed for is not the realm of most users. Though useful in longer barrels and unsuppressed hosts, there is still a general problem of below average accuracy. For range toys, only how high it rates on your fun meter matters. If rifle performance matters, than it all about the intended purpose and whether the 300AAC BO can accomplish it.
Where it shines is in comparison to pistol caliber carbines and AR style pistols based on cartridge efficiency within the nominal ranges of those platforms. If not restricted by Locat/State laws, a perfect fit for a 300AAC BO pistol (w/wo brace) may be the ideal “Truck Gun pkg”. In FL for example and unrestricted citizens may carry a loaded “handgun” in there vehicle, no CC license req. Fl Statute 790.251(5) applies. In this purpose, ammo cost for training, proficiency and prep is well spent and not excessive.
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