EOTech & Magnifier

Reader Adam S. writes:

EOTech and its parent company, L3 Communications, have been in hot water as of late and it seems that the bleeding will continue. In a show of remorse, EOTech is offering to buy back their holographic weapon sights (HWS) from consumers for full retail value plus $15.00 for S&H. This after they issued a statement to our military stating that some of the HWS models may have a thermal drift issue (inconsistent impact points between the temperatures of -40°F and 122°F). The point-of-impact shift was identified as being +/- 4 M.O.A. That’s horrifying considering most of the models EOTech sells have a 5 M.O.A red dot . . .

 

This tremendous black eye for the popular optics company after the fraud suit and $25.6 million settlement has left their reputation badly damaged, and their civilian consumers uneasy. That caused droves of people to contacting EOTech about whether their optics were faulty or not. Larry Vickers, a former Delta Force combat vet and owner of Vickers Tactical, was one of the first people to publicly confirm that, as a result of the backlash, EOTech will be buying back optics from consumers for full retail value plus $15.00 S&H.

If you’re an EOTech owner and want to take advantage of the offer, you can visit EOTech’s website and submit a Return Authorization Form.

EOTech has clearly taken a big hit as a result of the suit, the settlement and the negative publicity. It’s good to see, though, that they’re doing right by their civilian customers with the buyback offer. The question is how long the damage will last and how seriously it affects EOTech’s business going forward.

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145 COMMENTS

    • Sent mine a week ago – as soon as the news broke. Still waiting for my check.

      First 10,000 customers will get a refund check. Everyone else will get zilch.

    • I actually spoke with Mike, from Eotech, this morning. He told me the first run of checks should be going out in about 3 weeks. There are a small group of guys there that have to match up serial numbers, answer emails, and send in the approvals for checks to be issued. There are also a lot of fakes coming in and that is bogging down the system. It is a huge undertaking. He said over and over again that they would take care of their customers. Also, you need to check your spam folder for the confirmation of receipt email. Many people are calling and asking for an update without checking their spam folder. All I can say is that I got the impression that they don’t have any intentions of angering their customers more than they already have. There will only be one email sent saying they received your item. They will not send out another saying your check is on the way. Hope this helps.

      • Ok awesome, I already got my confirmation email that they have processed my sight. Guess I gotta sit on my hands for the check now.

      • I emailed Mike and he immediately responded and put me in touch with a call center. He was solid. They basically were useless. ” It is a slow manual process please call back in several weeks if you do not get your check by then.” The woman basically said that over and over, injecting that neither she nor any supervisor had any additional information. What would change between now and then? Probably nothing.

        • I’ve been waiting since the end of February for my check. Who do I contact to see what is going on? Good thing I’m retired LE and no longer on SWAT relying on my sight. I understand they are bombarded but this turnaround time is ridiculous. People actually rely on their sites as part of their livelihood.

  2. When it came time to choose an optic for my weapon of war, after much consideration I chose the Aimpoint T1.
    Money wasn’t the determining factor without getting into ridiculous amounts of money.
    The problem many of us face is eyes that no longer work like they used to and effective target acquisition becoming increasingly challenging for our older tired eyes.
    I considered EOtech and I’m glad now I passed them up.

  3. I also went with an Aimpoint T-1 for my M1 Carbine….And still haven’t gotten around to mount it.

    EOTECH needs to be crucified. Those sights were sold to the Military during time of War. They need to fry.

    • I kinda doubt you’ll see this since it’s a month old, but please do not put a holographic sight on an M1 Carbine. I can’t think of anything sillier. You’d be doing us all a disservice.

  4. That is nice for the consumers who manage to get in before the company goes bankrupt, but I don’t see how this is going to save them.

    • L3 is a huge company with a wide variety of optics and communications equipment. Eotech is a small part of the company in comparison. I’m pretty sure they can afford it.

    • L-3 is a ridiculously massive company. EOTech is only a tiny, tiny brand they own. The company bought part of Lockheed Martin years ago. Let that sink it. Issuing a few million in refunds to save face is nothing for them, and might prevent a much more costly class action lawsuit.

      • Dan,

        I’m not sure about how long ago you’re referring but L3 was formed in 1997 for the purpose of acquiring several Lockheed-Martin divisions that constituted the basis of the company. They did acquire Paramax – a former Loral company after the company was started. Another former Loral division in Atlanta – at the time Lockheed Martin – was a part of that initial transition. Their primary way of growing the company – aside from expanding their existing customer and product base – was through mergers and acquisitions in both the commercial and military markets.

  5. Meh, I got mine for about half retail (and I’m about 98.275% sure it is NOT a forgery). I’ll keep it on my bullpup SKS for two reasons… three if you count what I paid. 1) I’m not an operational operator operating operationally so “minute of bad guy” is accurate enough for me, and b) I really like that it uses AA batteries rather than some esoteric unobtainium proprietary BS power source.

    Hmm, now that I think about it, I wonder if they are going to be really cheap at gun shows once Stain Shet’s and TTACer’s predictions comes true… if it does.

    • The CompM4, and the Micro use batteries that are fairly available. The M4 uses AA and the Micro uses CR2032, the CR2032 are available at most drug stores.

      Only the PRO, ACO, and the 9000 series use the 1/3 N battery. Which is moderately common in the gun world, the Crimson Trace laser guards use 1/3 N batteries, Cmore sights, and the Pro Ears ear muffs too. Eotech also used to sell 1/3 N battery models.

      • Fair enough… perhaps I should say I understand and know where to find AA batteries. The rest, not so much. Yeah, I’m also a closet Luddite who hates computers, “smart” phones, fuel injection, and this newfangled intergoogleweb thing… but not enough to build a “Unibomber-style shack” in the woods of course.

    • Meprolight Tru-Dot also uses a 2AA battery, and is otherwise a quality sight. Kinda looks like a cross between Eotech and Aimpoint, actually – externally it resembles Eotech quite a bit, but it’s a red dot rather than holo.

      Also, a +/- 4 MOA shift is actually very bad even from a “minute of bad guy” perspective. I mean, we’re talking about potential dispersion of 8 MOA here – that’s 16 inches at 200 yards! It can very well make a hit into a miss.

      For comparison, Soviet standard for battle-ready AKM specified that it has to be capable of producing a group of 4 rounds fitting in a circle of 5cm radius at 100m. That’s 4 MOA. So as described, EOTech makes your gun two times less accurate than a 7.62×39 AK (and that’s assuming your gun is perfectly accurate to begin with).

    • Cost shouldn’t be a factor. MOA drift from the temp you zeroed it at is a big issue and EOTech will make it right. You purchased the sight with the understanding that if you do your part; aim, breathe, squeeze, you will hit where you aim. EOTech has changed that to; aim, breathe, squeeze, and hit where your aiming point has drifted to. Contact them for a return and they will refund whatever you paid for it up to retail and you can buy something that hits where you aim.
      Even another EOTech if you like. My understanding is that their manuals have changed to reflect the reality of their product. “Parallax Free” is gone and they describe the shift inherent in the design. If that is what you want then return the one you have and go for one of the new ones. Their defective product return policy won’t last for long.

  6. Eotech’s going to be far behind aimpoint for the next decade. If they can actually recover from this. I’ve already got my 517 boxed and ready to ship back.

    • Naw, I’m going for the full USMC version of the ACOG. It’s a bit more money, but I can attest that they are dead nuts reliable.

      • Dead nuts reliable? You must have been a POG. We were always turning those busted pieces of sh*t in for one reason or another. 4 from my squad in one cycle, two in work up and two on deployment. I’d trust a Hillary Clinton before another ACOG. There are much better optics for that kind of money.

          • Haha, you’re right. It ALWAYS comes out..i mean after at least 4 wasted years thats all they came out with..POG comments..I’m just super happy i got to 4 deployments in as a POG so I could walk into my current position making 170k a year..us POG sure aren’t on the same level as grunts.

            • I was mildly annoyed at being a POG when I’m the one that gets the grunts from the ship to the shore and then drives them around and provides fire support. Then I found out how much their packs weigh. You can’t be a Tracker and dislike Grunts, but no thank you, I’d rather drive around with my gear than hump it.

        • You ever notice every time you call out a POG for saying something ignorant they point out some shit that has nothing to do with combat? The point of the conversation is reliable replacements for defective optics. ACOG sights can and do break. They are also slow to aim in CQB environments, which is where you need the HWS to start with.

          $170k a year or not you are still a POG. You have always been one and you always will be. You may be able to buy more bullshit than some other people but you cannot buy the life and times grunts lived. You also cannot buy courage. Only thing you can do with a $170k a year is buy more shit that can be piled up and burned. From what I learned in combat not much that can be bought is worth anything.

          By the way I am on this thread because up until today I forgot I had a rifle with an EO Tech on it. That is why I am late responding.

  8. I did a lot of research and was hemming and hawing between the EOTech, a Vortex Sparc II, and the Aimpoint PRO, and went with the aimpoint. I’m glad I did…

    • Exactly: The post makes it sound like a swing of 4 MOA moving between those temps. The maximum error of 4 MOA happens after passing one of the two extremes.

      I’ve never experienced either of those temperatures in the outdoors. How come Rob O’Neill didn’t chuck his in the trash? Odd.

      • Do you think one of these is worth getting used if it is at a good price. What is the real world poi shift with temps most shooters will encounter ? Even with a defect in the optiic is it still more accurate than most shooters ?

      • I highly suggest that everyone read the case file. http://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/24/us-government-sues-l3-communications-for-fraud-involving-eotech-sights/

        FBI did their own testing and found that even in the temperatures in Virgina caused zeros to shift. The EOTech’s own CTO of the company even stated the at 32 degree F the parallax error was 12 moa and at 5 degree F it was more than 20 moa.

        EOTech knew about these problems for years and they still sold their flawed products to the government and public.

        • I think you have given me the answer .So in short terms if the temperature is not right you wont hit the side of a barn. So when you really need this thing to work it will let you down, Who in their right mind would put A 12-20 MOA scope on a 1 MOA rifle

      • I don’t think so. I’d bet the specs concerned performance within those extremes, and it did not meet those specs. For a rifle sight, no one would care about outside them.

  10. Only way I could see this affecting me is if I left my XPS in a very hot car. I prefer the sight picture of the XPS over any Aimpoint product which was my main reason for choosing it. Anybody want to chime in on how this POI shift affects a civilian who doesn’t live in extreme climates? Only thing I’m upset about is that the XPS costs just as much as an Aimpoint when the tech specs are no longer equal.

    • 122 degrees isn’t extremely hot for the interior of a car in the summer.

      In fact at 85 degrees (which much of the United States will hit that in the summer easily), it only takes 40 minutes for your average car interior to get above 122 degrees. So stop for lunch on the way back from the range, and your rifle can be exposed to that temperature “extreme.”

      There I live it can reach that magic numbers in 15-20 minutes during the common summer temperatures.

      • Of note, when it hits the extremes in your trunk or wherever, it does not return to zero. The shift has even been seen in temps of 32 degrees celsius and it even varies from the temp it was initially zeroed at. i.e. zero @ 70, off at 60 or 80.

  11. I just filled out the online form. It mentioned nothing about a full refund. Only a return authorization number that says it may quote a repair cost.
    Anyone have a different auto reply?

    • “Your refund request has been received and approved. Please print and enclose this email with your optic and return it to: EOTech Refunds, 1201 E Ellsworth Rd, Ann Arbor, MI 48108. EOTech will refund the purchase price plus $15 shipping cost as soon as possible.”

      That’s what I got back from them.

      I filled out the form and just said I would like a refund, and when and how much the sight cost. Never said for what reason. They emailed me the return form and said mail it back with no questions asked.

        • In the fault description, I put “Refund requested, $400”. If you put nothing, they probably assume you want to get it repaired, and should ask what the problem is. I got an email a couple of days later (over a weekend) saying they’d refund $400 plus $15 for shipping. Sight got to them on the 15th of December, and I’ve heard nothing back since… So still waiting.

      • Is anyone 100% positive that the refund will be in check form and not in the form of credit back to the company. i have already filled out my return form and received the email back. But i would like to be sure im actually getting a refund and not a credit to use later. Anyone with this info please help.

        • Here’s what the email back to me said:

          “Your refund request has been received and approved. Please print and enclose this email with your optic and return it to: EOTech Refunds, 1201 E Ellsworth Rd, Ann Arbor, MI 48108. EOTech will refund the purchase price plus $15 shipping cost as soon as possible.”

          Doesn’t say anything about company credit…

  12. Both of my Eotechs work great here in Florida with the heat and humidity.
    I have one mounted on an Ultimak rail on an AK-47.
    It gets hot!
    The other is on my wife’s Bushmaster AR-15.
    It has been left in the car and then shot after exposure to high heat.
    Both work fine. No change in point of impact after shooting long strings in hot weather.
    I save my targets and post them in my office. I have no problems with them going back years

    • I’m not taking the chance on my SHTF gun. Just not worth it. I paid top dollar to get it to run like a fine Ferrari, not going to take the risk that the failure is in the optic when I need it most.

  13. It is a shame about this zero shift. I sent in two EXPS3-0s.

    The design of and reticle on the EOTech is just so much better than Aimpoint. It is a faster CQB sight, it is better at longer ranges, and the large rectangular window is just easier to use. It is unfortunate that they could not ruggedize it the same as Aimpoint.

    Honestly, Aimpoints are fine, they’re ok. They’ve been releasing the same damn sight for 20 years now based on technology that is over 100 years old. The only change? Putting a low-draw LED light source. They’re fine, but I don’t understand the fanboism. There are half a dozen quality brands that do what Aimpoint does, most for less money. I’d easily pay twice what EOTech currently charges for an EOTech with the same reliability as an Aimpoint.

    Until that happens, I’m going either Meprolight M5 or Trijicon MRO.

    • Mine is 1 moa, with a 65 moa circle around it. This post does not make clear at what temps the variation can be a problem.

      The posts above referring to how hot a car gets in summer don’t connect for me. If the gun and sight get to 122 degrees in my car, I’m certainly not going to be shooting the thing. If your rifle s in a thermal bag when in your car (I even use one on my tennis racquets) even in a very hot car your gun will be much cooler.

      I find it interesting that people who were happy with their EO last week would bail on it because of an issue that only matters to a very few people. Was the sight providing accuracy last year? Last month? In winter and summer alike? The answer is probably “yes.”

      • And that’s why I haven’t sent mine back. In a perfect world, I’d like a *partial* refund of its value, since it’s bottomed out, but I have no interest in parting with it. Hopefully they find a fix instead before they go bankrupt, but I’m not holding my breath.
        Maybe other “reputable” manufacturers will be encouraged to put something more creative than a blank dot in their sights? One can hope…

      • The shift doesn’t require you to shoot the gun when it is over 122 degrees, simply that the optic is exposed to that temperature.

        And your solution to buy a thermal bag big enough for a rifle is hilarious. Even when all the evidence is in front of them people are still making excuses for Eotech because they’ve invested their money and ego into their choice of optics.

        I have Aimpoints on most of my rifles, but if a lawsuit like this came out, the Aimpoints on my defensive and competition rifles they would be replaced within days. If they did a refund program like L3 is doing I would send them all in too.

        The fact is that L3 put out optics that didn’t meet their published specs, an issue that the engineers knew about for almost a decade. They only admitted it after NSW Crane tested the optics after reports of issues from their users.

        • PPGMD: I just read the US complaint filed in federal court. It’s an astounding record of contemptable behavior. Astounding. I have a pair of EXPS sights, neither of which shows moisture-caused dimming…yet. I sold off a pair when I replaced them. Somebody no doubt is stuck with lemons. Mine? I’ll think about it. Now that I know I can’t trust them for one of the main long-term niches they were to fill, I’ll consider my options.

          I use quick-detach mounted scopes on my hunting rifles. I don’t count on the EOs for more than close range defense at mild temperatures. I had, however, tested the EOs for use as backup sights (on weaver bases) on a medium bore rifle for dangerous game hunting. I would never have discovered the cold weather problem on my own until I got to my destination. Being charged by a badly shot dangerous animal is not my idea of a fun vacation. I could have been killed.

          I think that if your comment hadn’t been so, umm, snarky…I wouldn’t have grabbed a copy of the complaint. Thanks! laugh. I’ve been busy with CLE all week. I hadn’t a clue about the news.

          Thermal cases, BTW, are not unusual, and neither expensive nor heavy. They simply extend the time an object can be in a hot car without sustaining heat damage/degrading.. They work great on most-resin racquets. I don’t think the idea is laughable. You can actual make one for a rifle using little more than a “space blanket.” Reflective foil and a very thin foam layer suffice.

  17. So this applies to all models then? Are they repairing them for consumers? Or just refunds? I really like the site. I would hate to have to give it up. Would rather they repair it.

  18. Not sure I want to sell back my Eotechs. As for jumping on the Aimpoint bandwagon…I remember 20+ years ago when Aimpoint hit the market and they started showing up on IPSC open guns. They were absolute pieces of crap. I have a long memory.

    • You put an early optic on a gun that shoots a round more powerful than common 45 loadings, what did you expect would happen? Based on the experience Aimpoint has improved the optic to the point that it is more durable than the guns that it is put on.

  20. I submitted a return auth.form…..asked if I can keep the optic with some form of consideration that would limit their future liability…..wait and see

  21. I want to keep the magnifier to use with a red dot. My problem is that my particular unit eats batteries. I have the model which uses 2 “N” cells, and I don’t shoot as much as I should. I put the gun down for 6 months or a year and when I pick it up, the batteries are dead, making the gun useless for SHTF. I don’t think I’ve gotten 2 hours of actual use out of a set of batteries that’s supposed to give 200 hours. And I have sent it back for repair, with no change in that problem. I am now awaiting a response, worried about TIO’s comment that he was too late.

  22. I plan on keeping both my 512 and 517.. great sites. If it get’s hot in the car, let it cool a bit before shooting and guess what? The point of impact returns to where it was sighted in.

    My 512 wouldn’t get bright enough to see on a sunny day. It was way out of warranty. I contacted EoTech and they fixed it for free!

    A site with a similar reticle is the Meprolight M21 which I have on my Tavor. Great sight too.

    Both brands of sights are far superior to Aimpoint or any other red dot sight, IMHO.

    • Yea I really like the eotech. I’ve only had it about a year. Maybe this is something that was mostly apparent in older models? It says in 2013 they came up with a fix then pitched it as an upgrade. I’m guessing mine was manufactured sometime in late 2013 or early 2014.

      • There’s a label on the bottom of the sight which gives date of manufacture. Of course, if it’s mounted and works, I suspect you don’t care to tear it down to see the date.

    • Superior to aimpoint? Maybe in price and speed but that’s about it. In terms of speed, durability, operability and battery life the aimpoint dominates the eotech. Weight also of you look at the micros. Love the m21 mepro but it’s big and the reticle disappears with a weaponlight.

      Granted I am not anti eotech but the statement “both sights are far superior” just isn’t quantifiable. All three are great in different ways.

      • >> Love the m21 mepro but it’s big and the reticle disappears with a weaponlight.

        Have a look at Meprolight Tru-Dot RDS.

        (It’s still big, but it has a huge window to go for it, unlike M21. And it’s a battery powered red dot, not fiber/tritium, so reticle doesn’t wash out.)

  23. Dan
    I’m not sure the five MOA dot info is accurate. I believe the have a one MOA dot surrounded by a 65 MOA circle.

  24. Is there any particular manufacture dates to be concerned with or rather dates that are considered ok and not part of the settlement? I have one 512 that is 2008 and the other is 2008 or 2009 (I’ve not removed it to check for sure).

  26. Tragically, I may be the very last person on God’s green earth to not have put an optic on my flattop AR yet (just a Magpul rear sight), but my incipient old age and attendant loss of visual acuity has made it plain that I need something. But, what?

    Are there any quality red dot/holosights out there, other than the Trijicon ACOG (far more than I can afford) that offer some level of magnification? 4x would be plenty.

    Tom

    • Tom, aged eyes is what finally made the move for me. Terrible day that.

      Other than purely magnified optics, you can also try something like an Aimpoint PRO or Mepro RDS with a G33 flip-to-side magnifier. The only draw back is that combination does add quite a bit of extra weight.

  27. Had been wondering why I was having to re sight in my EOTech. This explained it. I just got my email authorizing my refund. After putting a Vortex Strike Eagle on my AR in 300BLK, I will be replacing my EOTech on the 5.56 with another Strike Eagle. Refund will cover the optic and the ADM mount that is also very nice.

  28. Is anyone positive that this is a cash refund and not a credit to be used at a later time. i have filled out all the paperwork but am waiting to send mine back because i havent recieved a hard answer.

    • No. I put “request refund based on current fraud litigation and future reliability concerns”. It was approved for return within three days

      • Same here and it was approved in one day. That was Dec 11th. It’s January 14th and i have recieved no email reply, nor my check.

  31. I guess I don’t get it. I just returned two EOTechs, a 552 and an EXPS3, even though they have been great sights. Reticles were awesome and they were everything I wanted in a sight.
    L-3 admitted that they misled the government about the sights capabilities and limitations. I am a retired Marine Corps mustang and current law enforcement officer and have a vested interest in this. If you are a sport shooter who always knows your backdrop and doesn’t have to worry about killing what you didn’t intend to, keep your EOTech. If, by the DOJ filing you find it unacceptable to miss by up to 18″ at 300 yards, then send it back.
    There is no disputing that EOTech lied about their HWS sights. The only point of contention seems to be whether their lies affect your ability to use your firearm as you want to.

  32. I don’t know why anyone would put a 10 MOA optic on a 1 MOA rifle. The data shows that ALL scopes failed up to 10 MOA at a mere 32 degrees. These lies are a big deal. There’s tons of data and copies of the documents where EOTech admitted how crappy these scopes were in the tests at http://www.eotechlawsuit.com.

  33. Thought I’d toss this in here, just to beat a dead horse.

    “Is My EOTech safe to use?

    There is no known fix for the problem other than replacing the unit. Degree of inaccuracy and MOA variance will change based upon the ambient temperature the HWS was zero’d at, the amount of humidity it has been exposed to over its operational life, the age of the HWS and the ambient temperature the HWS is used at while engaging target. We do not recommend continuing to use the EOTech HWS system in scenarios where reliable targeting is necessary across a broad range of temperatures or humidity.”

    What misrepresentations did EOTech make to US consumers?

    Beginning in 2005, in its product marketing brochures, EOTech represented, “Extreme Durability – Built to take it: The HWS has been designed and tested to provide consistent, reliable performance even in the most hostile operational environments. The HWS is Waterproof (submersible), fogproof, shockproof, and withstands extreme temperature variations.”
    It also represented, “No Reticle Wash-Out: The HWSʼs 30 brightness settings ensure the holographic reticle can be instantly viewed in ALL types of lighting environments, cluttered back- grounds and target colors. The HWS delivers an impressive 10,000,000:1 bright to low reticle contrast ratio … to ensure the reticle is always clearly viewable.”
    In the HDS Specifications, it also said that the optics were “100% parallax free”.
    EO Tech’s brochure specified the temperature operating rage to be: “-40 to 150 F(using AA lithiums); -20 to 150 F(all other battery choices)”

    from http://www.eotechlawsuit.com

  35. I’ve been putting off buying a Eotech for the longest time and just got by with the back up iron sights. Now with all this fiasco I don’t know if I still want one.

    My question is did Eotech ever fix the problem on all the newly manufactured HWS or does the flaw still exist and who knows if or when they will solve it?

    I ask because if they eventually fixed the problem, I would give them a chance if their is some sort of serial range/year manufactured to avoid.

    But if nothing has been fixed and they just include a disclaimer I see them pretty much just asking potential customers like myself to go to their competitors.

  36. I have a concern that the refund will not be cash (check). I and a few of my friends have been asking EOTech customer service what form the “refund” would be by email for several days now. They always reply with some comment about something unrelated but do not answer the question. At least 20 emails have been sent with no answer to that question.

    • I have the same question. I am not willing to send my sight back without being completely sure this will be in check form. I will not send my sight back for a credit back to the company at a later date.
      I did see on an AR-15 gun owners of america FB page that someone received a “gift certificate” instead of a cash refund. but it was not 100% positive and no one else commented on it. Any feedback would be appreciated.

      • That was already deemed a hoax. I dont believe that anyone will be getting the refunds until atleast January. The longer you wait to send it back the longer it will be to get the refund. Now what form that refund comes in is another story. I sent an email the other day and got a response the following day. It seemed rather generic but they stated that they are working to process the REFUNDS as quick as possible. The word refunds was undwrlined. I dont know what this means but it was kinda promising. As long as it is not a EOTech gift certificate, i am good.

        Also i am not going to defend L3/EOTech but you have to understand that they are being inundated with RMAs and questions about what is going on. Not to mention the justified but completely unnecessary hate mail. That last one only goes to slow the process for everyone else.

  37. Here has been my experience so far. I got approval for sending in my HWS for refund. USPS tracking confirmed that HWS arrived in Ann Arbor. For two weeks, i have not been able to contact anyone from eotech customer service either by phone or email. If you call customer service, you get an option menu. Dial 0 for operator as instructed and it routes right back to main menu. Dial 3 for support and voicemail automatically picks up. Im very worried i wont get a refund as it seems there is zero response to any method of communication.

        • At 0537, I received the following correspondence from EOTech: Jan 15 2016

          Dear Mr. XXXXXXX
          Your product has been received and reviewed by EOTech and your refund is being processed. You will be updated by e-mail in the near future regarding check processing.

          Thank You,

          EOTech

  38. Great everyone sent their eotechs in but no one has actually received a refund. Sent two to in a month ago. I haven’t heard from them and have tried to contact them by email…. Nothing

    • They aren’t answering their phones either, every single menu choice, including the operator, either goes back to the main menu or straight to voicemail. This is looking very bad.

    • NOT SO FAST MY FRIENDS!!!
      At 0537, I received the following correspondence from EOTech: Jan 15 2016

      Dear Mr. XXXXXXX
      Your product has been received and reviewed by EOTech and your refund is being processed. You will be updated by e-mail in the near future regarding check processing.

      Thank You,

      EOTech

  39. Wow the first person that post they got a refund is when I will send mine in. I have my RMA but have decided to wait and see about the refund

      • I received that email on the 15th as well. A day after I posted. However no one has received a refund yet.

  40. I’m up in the air about returning my two EOTechs. What I have no confusion on is the fact that they lied about the quality/specs of their product. Additionally, to make matters worse, I’m very unhappy with their lack of customer service after the fact. By them not returning emails, routing incoming calls to a continuous loop where you can’t get a live person, not being clear on the refund procedure, not sending refunds in a timely manner after the sites are received and (as in my case) not sending me a return authorization approval letter after I submitted my request for return all tells me that EOTech is NOT a trustworthy company. They appear to be more interested in making money (and keeping it as long as they can) then they are the soldier or civilian consumer that was “tricked” into thinking they were purchasing a properly functioning and quality optic.

    • I would leave your EOTechs at the house for now. I’m the only person I know that has made any progress on getting a refund, I got my approval for return on dec 10th, and I received an email two days ago saying my optic had been received and that my refund was being processed. I would wait until myself or someone else has a check in hand before sending it back. THe only downside would be if in fact they are limiting how many they will take back. But for right now they have my optic and my refund, so I’d see which way the wind blows if I were you.

      • It doesn’t say there’s a limited number being accepted anywhere…so I’m not sure where you’re getting your information from. Why on earth would they only refund a few when a full class action lawsuit is in full swing…that makes no sense.

    • I am getting my refunded, mine was kit together. They approved my whole refund.. still waiting on the check which will be nice when it gets here. Hard to buy another site when your waiting on 1100 bucks…

  42. I’ve found this website :
    http://www.eotechlawsuit.com/

    Which says don’t ask for a refund as they’ve filed a class action lawsuit like the government did. It clearly says if you file for the refund, you may not be entitled to your states maximum damages. Any thoughts on this? I filled out the paperwork and I’m awaiting an answer. I’ve also read the refund is in fast a “gift certificate” which can’t be confirmed or denied as NOBODY has received the refund yet. I’d say forget the refund, make them pay. They’ve lied to consumers and the government since 2006 and still made millions off consumers and the government!!

    • Unless you personally suffered an actual damage as a result of said lies then your states maximum payout is not likely to exceed the retail value, and honestly I’d bet it wouldn’t exceed $100.

      Not too long ago I was notified (by mail) of a class action lawsuit against Acer for a laptop that I had previously owned. When I bought it the unit cost me $600. A class action lawsuit was brought against Acer for embellishing on the specs and thus selling a usable, but misrepresented product. The court found in favor of the people and Acer gave each registered owner the choice of a check for $12 or a 2GB flash drive as compensation.

      Right now L3 is offering FULL retail return value, and at this point it would be VERY hard for them to renege on that since it’s so well publicized, and has been placed in writing by them (via e-mail). Do what you will, but I’d strongly consider taking them up on this before it’s too late.

  45. Spoke with an actual person today that said the checks were being processed and more would go out in a few weeks. Sent my two in on 01/02/16, Received confirmation of arrival, then later received confirmation of refund being processed, but no money seen to date. Person assured me they were being issued. Slowly, but surely. Direct number is 888-952-9092

  47. Does this qualify a refund for the Eotech 512 A.65 Holographic sights I just purchased one and it seems to be very very fuzzy and I’m not too impressed with it at all so if I can get a refund for this optic it would be really nice. Thanks hope everybody gets their money back and this terrible company can hit rock bottom for their lies and over priced products karma is a B#%ch

    • I know a man that sent his sight back the second week of January. He got bus approval and confirmation from them. He is yet to see money. If I were you I would return it to the retailer I got it from.

      I know with mine I can see the resonation of the laser on the reticle. That is to say if I focus on the reticle closely it looks like you can see a grain in the laser image. From my experience all lasers look like this is you look really closely. I am not sure if this is what you mean. One question I have for you is this, did you already know these sights were messed up before you bought this one?

      I have an exps3 that I bought back in 2012. So far it has been a really great sight. I may still return it one day but I am waiting for the “gold rush” to subside.

      • No I found a good deal on the optic through a website I did a lot of research before I got it and read a lot of reviews and seen that if someone may have astigmatism or bad eye site then you might see a fuzzy reticle without your prescription eye wear but I have bought a cheap sight which was made by sight mark holographic sight and seen reticles way more clearly but this one is just a lil too fuzzy and has a stardust kind of effect I do need to get my eyes checked and know my vision is getting blurry but it seems ridiculous for such a high dollar top of the line optic to have this problem I’ve did everything I could to fix it but it’s just too statically and blurred out in my opinion but everything else is awesome. I will probably just return it and try to find another I’m very disappointed in eotech as I dreamed of always being able to finally get my hands on one because they was such nice optics but now seeing this makes me think otherwise. Thanks for commenting back I really appreciate it!

        • I am very sorry to hear that brother. I know how it is to really want something and look forward to getting it only to be dissapointed. The whole sittuation around the EO Tech sights is really a shame, but it is also blown out of proportion. Many of the guys complaining will never encounter conditions that will effect the sight in a manner so as to make it malfunction. Notice how people gushed about them until the real world professionals had some complaints. That being said I believe you may have gotten yourself a lemon, it can and will happen. Nothing man made is anymore perfect than the imperfect person who made it. I do hope you can get a refund. I encourage you to check in to the Aimpoint sights. I am personally more partial to Aimpoint than EO Tech. The single red dot is much simpler to use and has worked just fine for many years. Depending on what your phylosophy of use is for your weapon I think that the Aimpoint may be right up your alley so to speak. ACOG would probably be even worse with a stigmatism. I have 20/13 vision and the ACOG has been slower for me to use at times. My EO Tech rides on a 3gun rig I built. Check out these brands and models for possible options. They are in no particular order. They are just sights I have used or owned at some point in my tenure as a shooter and soldier.

          Vortex Razor
          Aimpoint Comp M4
          Burris FastFire 3
          Leupold Delta Point (there is a newer version of this that is quite nice but pricey)

          I am glad I could help you. That is what we are supposed to be doing here. Any advocate of shooting, shooting sports, and firearms is an advocate of mine.

          • Aimpoints are the cat’s ass. I have three of them, starting back in the M2 days. Having said that, I did a briefcase build recently and so decided to use something different just because. I chose EOTech. Mistake I guess.

            My briefcase gun is ultimately nothing more than a toy. So I guess my sight matches that. I would return it if I was assured I would get a refund. I have read forum after forum after forum. People that have sent their sights in three months ago have heard nothing.

            • Danny,

              Not sure what gun you did a brief case build with, but if I may; I would like to make a suggestion. Check out the Burris FastFire 3. It is seriously small and tough enough to ride on a pistol slide. I have used one that was mounted on a Glock 17. As you probably know what stops a Glock slide from rearward travel is the slide bouncing off the frame!! So I would think it would behave and perform nicely on your gun. Please tell us more about it if you don’t mind. If you would prefer not to, I understand completely.

    • As an aside mate, I don’t believe L3 is going anywhere. They have massive contracts with the “Freds” to do everything from Tactical Highspeed Data Networking to chow halls. These sights are a small side venture for them.

  48. More reasons why paying stupid prices for red dot and glass is just stupid. TRS25 works well and for a few hundred bucks I can buy three or four of them for several guns. Save the money, but there will always be dumb people who will pay out the ass to be able to say I have the kanuter 69 on my gun. LMAO A fool and his money.

  49. I’m looking at trading someone for one of these tonight. If I don’t like how it performs will I be able to get a refund without a receipt? Are all models on the market covered by this?

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