opencarry

By Brandon via concealednation.org

A 37-year-old man was pushed to the ground last week and had his openly-carried firearm stolen right from it’s holster by two thugs. According to dailypress.com, the man was walking across the street after visiting with friends when the unfortunate incident occurred. “The man said he was approached from behind by two men, and one of them demanded his gun. The other then grabbed the gun from the holster and pushed him to the ground.” . . .

The man said the two suspects then took off on foot. Police still haven’t found them or the stolen firearm.

I often stay away from the topic of open carry, not because I hate it, but because I run a site called Concealed Nation. Anytime the topic of open carry comes up, however, a feud between open carriers and concealed carriers opens up and floods the comments section.

I get why some people open carry, and I also get why others decide to conceal.

My opinion: having an openly-carried firearm makes you more of a target to the bad guys. It’s a simple fact that rings true each day. I also have no doubt that crime has been deterred even before it started because a bad guy saw an armed citizen first, and decided to not go through with it. That’s impossible to track, but it does happen.

I always use this scenario: picture yourself in a grocery store at the check-out lane with your firearm displayed openly on your hip. Now picture the bad guy coming up to the register you’re at with his gun drawn, looking to take all the money the cashier can give him. If that bad guy happens to see your firearm, guess where his attention is going to be directed. That’s right, it’s you, because you’re the closest viable threat to his mission.

As Brandon the concealed carrier, there won’t ever be a day that I’ll open carry (if I’m in an area that allows it). The reason? Just start reading this article again, right from the top.

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

105 COMMENTS

  1. My opinion: having an openly-carried firearm makes you more of a target to the bad guys. It’s a simple fact that rings true each day.

    Well, no: it doesn’t “ring true each day”, or we would have more than the exceedingly rare, occasional story of someone being disarmed. What does ring true each day? If I may make a slight modification to your opinion: My opinion: having poor situational awareness makes you more of a target to the bad guys.

    Carry – openly or concealed – or not; what really matters is not making yourself look like an easy mark. Don’t wander around, looking lost or like a tourist. Don’t bury your nose in your phone, or drown out the world with headphones. Walk with purpose. Keep your eyes and ears open. Notice when a couple of ne’er-do-wells notice you, and make their approach.

    • While I don’t want to open carry despite some of its objective advantages, it’s true that your EDC weapon isn’t just a potential lifesaving tool, but also a valuable item with appeal to thieves and other unsavory types; like a gold watch or high-end smartphone that can kill a mugger. And like a watch or smartphone, if you’re going to display it openly, you’ll have to keep a closer eye out for those who might want to get it away from you.

      Both systems have their drawbacks that can be overcome with training. With concealed, you’re limited by caliber, size and capacity. With open carry, everyone knows you have it, including those you’d rather not know.

      • Unlike other valuable things you may carry openly: Rolex, gold necklace, Smart phone (My Nexus cost me more than my SR9c), the things an opportunistic Bad Guy might want to relieve you of are NOT deadly to him if he screws up his approach and grab.

        In almost every instance, however, an openly carried pistol will give most criminals pause, unless they are intent on finding/getting a pistol and attack in pairs or a group, and even then I’ll bet they are very nervous. The chances of you killing a mugger after your cell phone, unless you are one of the small percentage of people who conceal carry, are not generally part of the mugger’s mindset. The presence of a properly holstered (retention) openly carried pistol protects all of your valuables from snatch and grab thieves.

        This argument will go into the books right next to the caliber wars, but the bottom line is that it is personal choice and should remain so. And – situational awareness!

        • Oh, obviously. But we’re dealing with an instance here where the bad guys assumed the risk anyway and successfully got his weapon. Just because a variable isn’t likely to happen doesn’t mean it isn’t worth planning ahead for anyway.

    • I couldn’t agree with you more Chip. Just having a firearm is not enough. You have to be aware of your surroundings. Watching videos of people walking off train platforms or into traffic while staring at their phones is infuriating.

    • “My opinion: having poor situational awareness makes you more of a target to the bad guys.”

      Having something that is worth stealing is Step 1 and flaunting it is Step 2. Sure “situational awareness” is important but I don’t care if a guy is Special Black Nijna Ops Delta Force–in the end he’s still just just one guy with 120 degrees of peripheral vision and errands to run. Open carry is stupid.

      • It is neither stupid nor smart. It’s just a different tactic with different gains and different risks. As pointed out:

        OC: + the visible weapon may deter crime
        – the visible weapon may make you a primary threat, and thus target, of a criminal

        CC: + the hidden weapon does not play your hand to the criminal or bystanders
        – criminals will proceed as originally planned with their crime, not recognizing a potential threat

        For me, the gains of OC aren’t worth the risks, and I think they generally aren’t, but for others they may be. There may be OCers who feel the same about CC.

    • “Situational awareness” only gets you so far, and will never bee fool proof. It obviously beats lack of it, though.

      Often lost in the “open carry” brouhaha, is that one of it’s biggest advantages, is that you can continue to simply concealed carry, without being so concerned about printing. You don’t have to be as obvious about it as humanly possible, nor carry your gun in the most easy to grab position available. And/or, while carrying the Big One openly, you could defend that one with a concealed one, for situations like this. And the concealed one can be much smaller and easier to conceal, since it is now tasked with being only a bug.

    • Chip , I know your position on this issue , having read your post and comments on the issue many times , and will concur strongly that you make good valid points in regards .
      I add mine here , for one reason , People should always consider their firearm a target of desire by those who cannot legally acquire one or cannot afford to purchase one for what ever reason , so I put forward the proposition that all of us should also carry two .
      I open carry very rarely and when I do it’s usually because I want people to know , for some reason , that I am carrying , or if I’m in the woods I will side holster a large caliber revolver , but point is , If I open carry in public , I always pack a back up , so if you’re going to whack me in the head to take my fire arm , you better knock my ass out or I will get it back from your unresponsive fingers .

  4. I am going to file this incident squarely under ‘situational awareness fail’… and I am going to continue to open carry.

    Concealed carriers are beginning to become their own version of Fudd over this, and it is concerning me.

    • Beginning?

      It’s nothing new. I open carry a 1911 in .45 ACP in a Serpa. According to some, I should be dead by now.

      • “According to some, I should be dead by now.”

        You already are, that 1911 in .45 ACP has stolen your soul… 🙂

    • I choose concealed – where I live I couldn’t OC if I wanted to, but I don’t anyway so i don’t really care.

      But what you choose to do is your own business, I have no problem with you choosing to OC really.

    • Nailed it with the Fudd comparison.

      I work at a gun store and I’m the only one of the employees who open carries outside of work. My co-workers pose the same tired rhetoric: OC makes you a target. Just like talking to an anti-gunner, I remind them that if they want to make broad anti-gun claims (which anti-OC’ers are doing whether they think so or not) then they need to be supported by facts. Fact is, an OC’er being disarmed/targeted is BY FAR the exception rather than the rule. When stories like this pop up several times a day then maybe the CC-ninjas have a leg to stand on, until then they are just another subset of Fudd.

      • I also open carry regularly in the summer time when it is more convenient. I am 6’3″ and carry a Glock 17 ,so it’s not a small gun, and you would be surprised how many people don’t even notice you have a firearm on you. I have worked with sales people in stores who don’t notice sometimes till 30-45 minutes into talking. People are clueless and in their phones all the time. I also sell firearms at a local gun store and I open carry more as an educational ice breaker for people that don’t know their rights. When I go into bad areas of town I still conceal carry though. So it depends on the situation.

    • “I am going to file this incident squarely under ‘situational awareness fail’… and I am going to continue to open carry.”

      And I will file THIS under ‘A River in Africa’.

      • Yes, because successful gun grabs/shootings of open carriers are the norm rather than an infinitesimal statistical anomaly and a completely legitimate reason to entirely change one’s wardrobe and habits…

        oh wait, gun grabs/shootings of open carriers ARE an infinitesimal statistical anomaly? Well then, disregard everything I mentioned above.

        • In terms of strict “cost / benefit” analysis, here are the ONLY two relevant questions:

          How many times a year does a person in the United States:
          (A) have to deploy they concealed handgun to defend themselves from attackers that would have left them alone had the attackers seen that the victim was openly armed?
          (B) suffer injury, death, or loss of their openly carried firearm that would have never happened had they been carrying concealed?

          Who knows?

  5. So he had a gun and when somebody demanded it, he didn’t draw it, but instead let them push him to the ground and steal it? Wow. Fail on so many levels. Don’t carry it if you aren’t prepared to draw it…

    • Smarter than your average criminals, apparently. The original demand was a diversion so the second BG could sneak up behind and take him to the ground. Basic premise of Brazilian Ju-Jitsu: Unless your opponent also knows BJJ, once you take him to the ground all of his training is useless.

  6. Just like Brandon, I can see this issue from both sides. Using his “grocery store check-out” senario, I’d add the following – imagine the bad guy walks up and notices SEVERAL PEOPLE with openly carried firearms. That would stop him from commiting the crime, most likely. That’s why I’m personally stuck in the middle of this issue – I’ll keep mine concealed – for now, at least. In Arizona, however, I might just choose the open carry option.

    Also +1 to Chip Bennett’s “situational awareness” comment.

    • Benzo,

      Yes, if there are a lot of armed good guys, criminals will go away and look for an easy target. Thus, if you are carrying openly, it is safer for the open carrier if there are multiple open carriers.

      This is the case no matter what weapons you have, no matter whether people can see them or not. “Strength in numbers” is a proverb for a reason.

  7. I agree with Chip on situational awareness. Story (choose to believe it or not) says one guy demanded his gun. Should go something like “Gimme your damn guBANG” while the other grabbed his empty holster BANG. Reengage safety, depart area without delay, stand ready to receive UNIFORMED cops at your room/home/whatever. This is obviously not a spot to hang out.

  8. I side with having a tactical advantage.

    Blend in.

    When you travel overseas, would you display an American Flag on your day pack? Probably not. Do I want to, yes, but again, for your own safety and the safety of those around you, it is best to blend in. Same goes for wearing a weapon open carry here in the US.

    Wearing a weapon in plain view is like painting a target on your back.

    Deterring crime with visible arms?

    I love visiting Singapore. I have never seen an armed officer, they are all undercover – AND everywhere. They have one of the lowest crime rates, because the citizens and criminals of Singapore are always cognizant that the person next to them could be armed and a cop.

    • I tend to think a bit more like you. I am afraid that I am not an altruist as so many here seem to think they are. My own security is my foremost consideration. The open carry movement is way down the list. Congratulations to those who get that warm sheep dog feeling from it though, I am sincerely happy for you.

    • So police don’t deter crime then. They open carry because it makes them look cool and does nothing to prevent crime. If all police were ordered to wear uniforms and conceal carry do you think crime would go up or down? Probably up because the firearm is harder to get to. I have seen plenty of people “conceal” a clearly visible 1911 print or other large firearm in public before. If every person that concealed a firearm one day just started open carrying the crime rate would drop drastically.

      • Keith,

        I think Matthew C.’s point makes more sense in this light:

        Presently in the United States:
        Sure, criminals refrain from committing crimes when a uniformed police man/woman is in the area. And just as sure, criminals resume committing crimes when there are no uniformed police. And criminals can do this with confidence because they can be nearly certain that no police are in the area if they cannot see any uniforms.

        If all police were plain-clothes officers in the United State and there were a LOT of them:
        Criminals would be much more reluctant to commit crimes because they would never know if an undercover police man/woman was in their midst. This is the same dynamic/argument that concealed carriers claim comes into play if enough people carry concealed.

        Having said all that, the key to seriously reducing criminal activity is LOTS OF ARMED GOOD GUYS. It doesn’t really matter whether the good guys carry openly or concealed, whether they are police or upstanding citizens who are willing to use a firearm to stop a deadly threat. All that matters is that a LOT of people are armed and able to stop violent criminals.

  9. Open carry also has the affect of intimidating other civilians and perhaps alienating them come voting time. For all you don’t give a fuck its 2a all day…yeah right, how’s that been working out for you lately. Open carry does not have any tactical advantage to concealed carry that isn’t negated by another disadvantage, yet it has plenty of disadvantages that have no corresponding advantage. Carrying concealed is the civilized thing to do in a civilized place. Open carry out on the range…cool, open carry at Walmart on a Saturday afternoon…that’s a liability on too many levels, it will only scare off the lowest form of predator, if you see someone acting sketchy, pull out your damn phone and start taking pictures.

    • “For all you don’t give a fuck its 2a all day…yeah right, how’s that been working out for you lately.”

      Sounds like you’re a kid. It’s been working out real good for me lately, I grew up in the ’60s, no such thing as OC or CC either one. Insistence on 2A all day and VOTING has changed that in most states, which means progress. Staying out of sight and out of mind, real quiet, has solved exactly nothing. Reevaluate your position. Maybe you do not have the courage to be on the front lines, but even then there is no reason to pretend any manner of superiority over those who do.

    • The counter-argument is that open carry by average people not committing crimes helps to normalize the concept of firearm ownership. People (muggles) only freak out because they are not accustomed to seeing their neighbors exercising their Second Amendment rights.

      On the other hand, whipping out your phone and taking pictures of “sketchy” individuals? That seems like a perfect way to get yourself targeted for a beat-down or an opportunity to have to brandish your concealed pistol.

    • Open Carry has several advantages over CC, don’t be silly. How about carrying a full size firearm like a Glock 20 rather than trusting your LIFE to something like an LCP.
      How about draw time? Bet I can draw and put rounds on target from an OC holster faster then you can with an IWB every day of the week. Not to mention the deterrant effect, if open carry was so dangerous all cops would be undercover, right? But the presence of guns undeniably deters the predatory criminal element.

      • How did I just *know* your example gun would be a Glock 20? 🙂

        Mine sits on my nightstand, and I give free demos at 2AM. No appointment necessary, just drop in.

        • “… I give free demos at 2AM. No appointment necessary, just drop in.”

          You sir win the Intertubez for the day!

      • A lot of wrong assumptions there. I OWB CC a Five Seven with a 6″ barrel and a reflex sight. So it is likely an inch longer and an inch taller than your G20 as well as a bit wider. Concealed doesn’t mean undetectable and it doesn’t require the use of a particularly small gun. As for draw time, yeah it probably takes a bit longer to clear ones coat or shirt, but then again, it most likely isn’t as apparent that you are drawing or going to draw. Lastly, cops are unappealing targets for most crimes for more reasons than just their guns.

    • I’ve had a lot more good experiences (many) than bad (one, and that was questionable) open carrying. Out of sight, out of mind may be fine for you, but those same people that you don’t want to offend will still vote against us, simply because they don’t see guns in the hands of good guys. They only hear about them in the hands of criminals. Most of the time when I’m out and about, someone will engage in a conversation with me because they ‘had no idea’ about this or that. Pretty sure concealed carriers don’t get approached like that, furthering the Second Amendment conversation and education with strangers.

  10. It’s Newport News…of course there was a mugging, it’s only news because the item stolen was a gun. Don’t avoid open carry. Just avoid shitty neighborhoods.

  11. I am a huge proponent of open carry. Certainly it is a right, and I actively encourage people who are competent, confident, comfortable firearm users to open carry. One thing not really talked about in this article though was retention. Obviously awareness is a big part of retention. Always be aware of your surroundings. If someone is close enough to grab your gun and you don’t realize it, you’re probably not as aware as you should be. However, retention holsters are a good idea. Most concealed carry holsters are “level 1” retention, meaning the only retention they offer is friction/pressure from the outside walls of the holster on the firearm. For open carry I would recommend at a minimum using a “level 2” retention holster, meaning that in addition to friction/pressure you have a retention strap, or thumb break, or some other active measure you have to engage to remove it. Certainly level 3 or 4 retention holsters are also good options if you are comfortable using them.

    • When these goons approached, the retention system in use should have been his HAND, let them steal the empty holster while you’re shooting them. If you intend to ignore the fact that you’re carrying in a bad neighborhood, then conceal. And, probably, assume everybody else should conceal, as well, surely they are not more responsible than you, right?

    • To expand upon this, safariland has a type of level 2 holster called ‘als’. It has a very small tab on the inside of the holster right at the edge, exactly where you put your thumb on the draw. You push backward with your thumb on the draw, the equivalent motion of sweeping a frame mounted safety off. It is extremely fast and yet incredibly secure. You can’t even see the tab from the outside. My dad was a little drunk on thanksgiving and thought it would be funny to take my gun from me as a joke. He grabbed it from behind me and started yanking on it. Meanwhile I didn’t even stop my conversation because I knew he wasn’t going to get it out. After about 3 tugs he lets go and asks “how the hell do you get it out?” “Like this,” I reply, pulling the gun out of the holster and showing it to him, then snapping it back in. I then took the whole holster with the gun off and handed it to him. He STILL couldn’t figure it out.

      If a guy with an infinite amount of time and no one attempting to stop or impede him couldn’t figure it out, what are the odds a random thug is going to get it in a split second?

      • Agree. I really think its cowardice more than anything. Worried about attracting the bad guys attention? A real gun owner should PRAY for the day they actually get to make a difference.

        • Poe’s Law: The tenet that any sufficiently outlandish parody of extremism is indistinguishable from the genuine article. It’s the reason I have no idea if you’re only kidding, and really don’t want to find out for certain.

    • You are a reckless dangerous fool who will lose us ALL our 2A rights, by carrying openly!

        • The man said he did both, invited someone to flame him…and two fanatics that I rounded up flamed him for doing the opposite of what they want, even though he was also doing what they *do* want.

      • I should have put a sarcastic tag on the “nope I missed it”. I 100% got the joke, the second half of my comment was true. I do carry a .380 in a pocket holster.

  13. I think that deterrence outweighs the risk of getting the gun stolen from a properly secured gun in a retention holster. Also, there is the “normalization” aspect of it.

    If you are that concerned, carry a backup (concealed)**.

    ** void where prohibited by law.

    Keep in mind, anti-gunners *want* to ban concealed carry because they are afraid of the mere sight of guns.

  15. Another thing not mentioned is that concealed carry may lead you to drop your situational awareness regarding a grab because you think/believe that no one knows you are armed. You may go along happily convinced of your anonymity only to find that you have printed or revealed at some time and are being stalked.

    As illustrated by the article above, not all criminals are dope-addled fools or cowards. Given the opportunity and realizing you are not fully on your guard a snatch of your concealed pistol from under your concealment garment would not be a difficult proposition. Not to mention the tactic these two used to acquire the gentleman’s openly carried pistol would work just as well to obtain a concealed pistol that was spotted.

    This argument can (and will) go on ad infinitum. Best answer, leave me alone and I will leave you alone.

  16. My God. If this could only be applied to the DoD. Don’t give awesome weapons to the Iraqi Army as they may be traded off (or stolen) to the highest bidder (like in Vietnam but that is the point).

  17. I’ll read the article just once, thank you for your concern, because it’s only one bad incident and doesn’t prove anything about wisdom of open carrying. Guess what, open or concealed carrying a weapon does not make one 100% immune to being targeted or being a victim of a crime. Thugs ambush and steal guns from uniformed police officers. Should we disarm uniformed police officers and only have armed plain clothed officers? Painting with a broad brush from a rare occurrence is what the gun grabbers do because the facts and figures aren’t with them. We should not emulate their tactics to attack other “People of the Gun.” This sounds too close to what the grabbers like to say to women, “Don’t carry a gun, a rapist will overpower you and take it from you.”

  18. My law enforcement experience is telling me to throw the BS flag. This guy was in a not nice part of town (I used to work in Newport News). Incident occurred near a seedy motel known for drugs and prositiution. More than likely he was concealing and got robbed or rolled during a drug transaction. He probably knew OC is legal without a permit and was claiming that’s what happened. No video or witnesses to confirm it. While I’m not saying what he claims is implausible, I’m saying there is waaaay more to the story. This OC makes you a target and you’re gonna get shot by a bad guy who sees you claim is bull. I’ve open carried every day for five years. Zero issue.

  19. Conceal it. Unless Hunting/fishing/kayaking or hiking/camping. Open carry any other time is just asking for trouble. I would rather no one even know I have a firearm on me. To me it’s like slinging a rifle or shotgun and then walking around town. Sure, it’s your right to do so if you so wish.

  20. Uh, two goons like this walk up from behind you and rob you if you aren’t paying attention.

    Also, am I supposed to believe concealed carriers would not be robbed in a similar situation? Caught from behind unawares?

    Also-also, I thought open carriers are supposed to get shot first (presumably by Han Solo), or at the very least the known presence of a gun was supposed to vastly escalate the situation (this logic sound familiar? It should), yet this dumb fool experienced the most run of the mill type of mugging there is; knocked over & left quickly.

  21. So this makes 2 instances of an open carrier being targeted that I can find in the whole US after repeated Google searches. 2. If you think this proves open carry makes you a target, then every time a concealed carrier is forced to deploy their firearm it proves CC is a failure at deterring crime. The truth is no method of carry or behavior will render you 100% immune to crime.

  22. I don’t go around advertising my stuff, and I don’t go around giving away my self defense specs.

    I don’t have a problem with open carry of holstered handguns. I personally think it’s an unnecessary ego trip and Big Man thing to do, but hey, go for it.

    The Chipotle Ninjas, on the other hand, are a liability, and they make all gun owners look like slobbering idjits. Especially the ones who intentionally provoke confrontation. Get a job.

    EDIT: And I mean open carry in urban areas. Out in the sticks, it is waaay less of an issue, and actually has practical value.

  23. I used to open carry in uniform. I don’t get the emotion over this. Why each side gets so invested in their preference that they name call the other. Personally, I prefer to carry my pistol concealed. If you want to walk around with a full size service pistol, be my guest. IDC. Don’t disparage my choice, and I respect your right to be an idiot. LOL. I’m kidding.

    • Heh heh. I agree that it seems to be an emotional issue and for me what bugs me are all the cock sure opinions here that OC does not simply elevate our risk, both individually and collectively. Most here seem (at least pretend to) want to a) defend themselves from Bad Guys and b) keep guns out of the hands of self-demonstrated Bad Guys. The story here is a case-in-point of both objectives failing, seemingly for no other reason than the dude surmised that open carry was the best way to protect himself.

    • Its only the CCers that seem to have a problem. Your not going to see an OCer trying to stop someone from CCing.

  24. Did anyone else notice the guy in the photo is *literally* half-cocked? I wonder if this is this a subtle comment on OC by the editors? 🙂

    • Wow! 62 comments before someone pointed out the 1911 in the pic is in Condition 2 1/2.

      Admittedly, that is one way to protect against a gun grab.

  25. I WILL NOT open carry EVER…PERIOD. Why…you cannot have 100% SA 100% of the time. And what does a thug “look” like?

    Concealed means no one knows, you’re a sheepdog among the herd. I want a baddie attention on thugin, allowing me to pick the moment to engage.

    • What does a “thug” look like? He looks like a predator on the hunt. Many moons ago I had regular exposure to seeing what a real human predator on the hunt looks like, versus a wanna be “thug”

      This was while delivering pizza in the war zone. A human predator on the hunt, at this point, has a virtual flashing red light on their head, saying “danger Will Robinson!!”. So in a pizza store where all the drivers were mugged at least once a year, some multiple times, I was one of the few that was not mugged, after the first incident. Because I carried a concealed firearm, a 4 D-cell mag light, and a whole Lotta situational awareness. (This was after I was mugged the first time which caused me to start carrying a firearm, the first month I delivered pizza).

      So I could see out of a group of guys hanging out on a street corner, now I can tell which ones were predators and which ones weren’t, and those that were predators, could also tell I was not one to be F’d with. From those that were of the predator class, I had a number of comments, “You’re an under cover cop!!”. (I get that alot; while OC’ing now for the last 8 years, a number of people have asked me if I’m a bounty hunter.)

      So a number of times, a predator would start moving towards me with that hunting aura, like a cat stalking a bird across the yard. I would face them, mag light in hand, ready, they would see that calm, yet ready awareness, they would see the mag light, and they would suddenly remember some place else they needed to be.

      So yes, a person, with situational awareness, CAN tell a “thug” from just regular people. Oh, and the predators came in different races; hispanic, black and white. But those that are predators all have the same aura.

  26. I open carry in a Safariland Kevel II retention OWB light-compatible holster for a Smith 4006 TSW at work. Off duty I conceal OWB and pocket carry. I occasionally open carry but my highest retention level is just a snap.

    All have advantages. All can be screwed up. All require situational awareness, availability and sobriety to be used effectively. In an urban environment, I prefer concealment so that I can have the element of surprise.

  27. I really get tired of reading these anti OC topics here. We all recognize Fudds when we seem them, but these little CCers with their obsession with excising their rights in secret with their permission slips is just as bad.

  28. There is a time for open carry and a time for concealed carry. The circumstances of where you are and who might be in that location should help you decide which would be more appropriate for the situation.

  29. I dislike open carry simply because it announces to the world that you are armed. The only time I want to announce I am armed is either in a combat zone where everyone is, or if the Walking Dead becomes reality.

    For going to the grocery store? No thanks CC all the way.

    YMMV.

    • You mean that while you’re going to the grocery store (or anywhere else), you actually go about your business like everyone else is NOT armed? Interesting…

  30. If you are going to carry openly, please PLEASE use a retention holster. And not that piece of crap Serpa holster at the beginning of this article.

    Don

  31. That is exactly why I advocate for retention holsters. ….alao, that wouldn’t have happened if they guy was carrying in a fanny pack…..lol

  32. Good retention holster, and a concealed backup gun.

    Aside from that: Open or Concealed carry should be up to the discretion of the person opting to carry, and they should make that choice based on a reasoned appraisal of all the factors involved.

    Constitutional carry in every state and locale. Make sure that everyone has that choice, and then let them decide what’s best for them.

    I gotta agree with Vhyrus: “Concealed carriers are beginning to become their own version of Fudd over this, and it is concerning me.”

    Whether you favor open or concealed, please don’t shoot at your own side. We have plenty of anti-gunners doing that, we don’t need to be taking fire from our own as well.

    One thing that open carry does do is familiarize the general public with firearms carry, and over time, the more people they see peacefully going on about their business with a gun on their hip, the more it normalizes both carry and gun ownership and makes it less frightening and threatening to the average Joe.

    That alone is worth the statistically unlikely chance of someone getting their gun snatched while open carrying, in my book. We’re engaged in a cultural war here, and changing the culture is the only way that we win it. Doing that means changing the perception of guns and carry from something unusual and dangerous to “Oh, just another part of daily life.”

    Back to the way it used to be: from “Gun culture” to Just Plain American Culture.

    You don’t win wars without kicking over a few apple carts and taking a few risks.

  33. Unfortunately, here in Houston, 30.07 signs are sprouting like mushrooms on a cowfield after a good rain. The ancillary damage is that a lot of businesses are also being sold 30.06 signs by the enterprising print shops. There are places I used to visit that had no signs, but now have their entire door plastered with legal no-gun signs. I’d open carry if I could, but there are few places left that allow it. With regard to the poster who assumed those of us that prefer CC blindly consider everyone else “out there” unarmed, I can assure him/her that the exact opposite is true. I constantly check my fellow patrons for printing and keep the mindset that others are doing the same with me.

    As of today, I have yet to see even one Texan OC, even though it was legal as of 1-1-2016. What does that tell you about the ability to OC here?

  34. I don’t want to be known as the guy with the gun. If I carried a fire extinguisher people might expect me to go put out fires they started.

  35. Tell me a story where a concealed gun was brazenly stolen….
    Open and concealed carriers are both proudly exercising their 2A rights. Great.

    But concealed carry minimizes/deters/eliminates unknown social factors that would otherwise hinder/affect the original purpose of carrying a gun in the first place.

    • Tell me a story where a concealed gun was brazenly stolen….

      Tell me a story where a concealed gun deterred a criminal.

      As for “brazen”: the typical criminal isn’t; he’s just the opposite: a coward.

      Open and concealed carriers are both proudly exercising their 2A rights. Great.

      If only there weren’t a “but” coming next…

      But…

      Sigh…

      concealed carry minimizes/deters/eliminates unknown social factors that would otherwise hinder/affect the original purpose of carrying a gun in the first place.

      By that reasoning, no-carry would equally minimize/deter/eliminate. In reality, neither concealed carry nor no-carry can minimize/deter/eliminate anything, because concealed means concealed. Nobody but the carrier knows it is there.

      Though, I could be missing your point. I have no clue what you mean by “unknown social factors”, so maybe I’m missing something.

      • Yeah, not exactly sure what he means either…Guessing he means that in general, OC may add a whole set of new variables on top of whatever circumstantial variables are already in play. People will react differently to OC and some may act with criminal intent (as per the original story). Others will take OC as a sign of aggression and insecurity, pigeonholing us on what is essence a very personal choice–it’s very hard to get other folks to see the world through our eyes.

        If a person wants to OC, fine. IMHO they are missing the point of going armed in a civil society. Moreover, they may also be forcing non-carriers to the pro-/anti-carry sides of the issue,and stacking votes against us in the future

  36. LOL! OMG! Post an article on CC or OC with YOUR opinion and everyone comes out in droves to prove how wrong you are even when you state that its YOUR OPINION.

    Working IT, this is like the whole Linux is better than Windows or Apple great debate.

    Is the the point at which I state that .45 ACP is the greatest pistol caliber and anyone using anything else is just WRONG! 😉

  37. It doesn’t matter if you OC, CC or don’t carry–if you own a gun you’re still a target for the civilian disarmament crowd. IMO, for me at least, political attacks are far more realistic, common and dangerous threats than physical attacks. And OC is the better “defense” against those threats.

    I CC most of the time because I’d rather blend in, but I picked up a Safariland retention holster for my Springfield 1911 so I can OC on “special occasions.” I figure if I don’t exercise OC once in a while, I’m helping gun rights to die a slow death by shaming.

  38. There are certain situations and neighborhoods where “situational awareness” isn’t much of a firewall to prevent an attack by criminal predators who aren’t necessarily deterred just because their intended victim is armed.

    Criminal predators live and thrive in war zone hoods that are crawling with their contemporaries, many of whom are armed, so it’s complete idiocy to believe situational awareness is a magic bullet that will prevent some turd from taking your gun in a sudden violent attack.

    There’s a reason many LEO’s have transitioned to level III retention holsters, because even the most competent and vigilant police officer can never perfect constant “situational awareness”, and many officers have suffered injury or death at the hand of criminal predators who seized the momentary opportunity to attack, only fools believe there will never grow complacent or let their guard down.

    The real world deterrent for criminal predators is when they know they’re outnumbered and fear of the unknown where they can’t be sure who might be a threat. Strutting around with the delusional “look at me I’m toting a pistol” attitude and pretending open carry to be an infallible deterrent is lunacy.

    The intelligent application of “situational awareness” that might have prevented the poor dumb bastard in Virginia from being robbed of his gun would have been an awareness that openly displaying your pistol in certain situations and neighborhoods is really stupid. As I’ve repeated many times, just because open carry is legal doesn’t mean it’s smart.

    When I read about this incident a couple of weeks ago on bearingarms.com, the first thing that came to mind was Dean Weingarten carrying his Glock in that green Fobus holster positioned on the belt in his right kidney area.

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  42. I’m neither for or against “open carry” as I, like mentioned by others in the comments, see it as simply another way of carrying your gun. If you want to carry concealed then do it and if you want to carry open then do it also.

    I’ve never understood the reason why so many concealed carry advocates will rabidly attack at the first mention of someone carrying openly. It’s like someone just bad mouthed their mother. It always comes down to disparaging the person who mentioned open carry and then talking about how you’ll be targeted by bad guys during their misdeeds and/or that you’ll be forcibly disarmed by bad guys who see you as a walking gun display despite the fact that the odds of it actually happening are along the lines of being mugged by a narwhal (based on the cases of it actually happening). Just because it “seems” like something that could easily happen doesn’t mean it actually does and yet this normally tight knit group (Pro-2A) who otherwise are extremely supportive of each other will turn on another like wolves on crack. There have undoubtedly been situations where the thought of having to deal with a civilian who’s armed (open carry) has prevented a potential crime from occurring.

    During my time as a LEO it became painfully obvious that most “bad guys” aren’t very bright. They will almost always take the easiest route to their objective. They break into houses with the least security (outdoor lighting, alarms, broken/open windows etc) and avoid those where they know or suspect they may run into an armed occupant. Same thing applies to other crimes. You would be hard pressed to find a bad guy who decides to go through with a robbery when he see’s folks with guns in his path. Be they an armed store owner, a police officer getting coffee or an obviously armed civilian shopping. It’s just not worth it when they can pick any number of other targets in the area where they can get in and get out quickly, unhindered and uninjured. It’s just common sense.

    There’s no way to put a number on such situations but it’s inevitable that they happen just as it’s inevitable that some bad guy, or bad guys, will throw caution to the wind and attempt to steal a good guys gun because they saw it while being carried openly. Inflating the instances of either situation or just depending on information regurgitated from other “anti-(insert side)” articles and subsequent comments to attack anyone exercising their second amendment rights just seems counter productive. This is especially so in this time when our right to bear arms is being attacked daily by those intent on revoking it altogether. The vitriolic fighting amongst our own does nothing but create animosity and barriers that weaken Pro-2A as a whole.

    An interesting addition to the topic, Oklahoma (who has concealed and open carry by permit) is close to passing a law that would allow any citizen who’s legally able to own a firearm to carry openly without a permit. However, if you want to carry concealed you would still have to get a permit which requires attending a class and passing the background check. I know a lot of folks with concealed carry permits and I know a lot who disapproved of having to get a permit but would definitely carry if it didn’t require a permit. I can understand the reasoning and it would be easy to jump on the “judge” wagon but that doesn’t help anything. I suspect this will increase the number of folks who open carry here. I have no doubt that most would prefer to carry concealed but aren’t going to submit to having to go through the permit process so they will go heeled openly. Contrary to the horror stories depicted by the anti-gun folks in their commercials prior to the vote, after open carry was passed here it didn’t turn into the wild west and you rarely, if ever, see anyone carrying openly. I think I’ve seen maybe four folks out open carrying since the law was passed.

    With the possibility of this new law passing it will force citizens, who want to carry but not register with the state for priciple (as well as deal with the associated time and cost), to carry openly or not at all. Personally I don’t understand how the state can approve this law by such a large margin (so far) but still force you to register with them, pay to go through a class and then pay to be background checked and then issued a permit. It’s several hundred dollars when it’s all over and done with. If it were strictly money related why choose to allow open carry without the same associated fees?

    So, given that many Oklahoman’s may now be in the position to have to carry openly if they can’t afford to or don’t want submit to state licensing required for concealed carry, perhaps an article that deals with open carry gun and holster choices is in order?

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