Ever since the Dark Days of December, 2012, 5.56mm ammo has been scarce as as TTAG post without a link to an Israeli supermodel. Through this past winter and spring, shoppers would arrive hours before opening to wait in at local sporting goods stores on the rumor that a few cases of 5.56 might briefly hit the shelves. They rarely did. But that’s all ending. Five weeks ago a thousand rounds of steel 5.56 cost $480 plus shipping, and now it’s $400. If you can stand to do business with CTD, they’re advertising the same ammo for $360 . . .
Nick reported last month that the AR-15 market was collapsing like a circus tent with the poles pulled out. Last week I forwarded Dan and Robert a link to Bushmaster ARs for sale for $750 new.
When the guns start getting cheap, it’s a clear sign that everyone who needed them has by now gotten them. And when ARs start getting cheap, the stuff that ARs eat (5.56 ammo) will start getting cheap too.
Prudent shooters bought cheap ammo when they could, in those happy 18 months between the end of the first Obama Ammo Panic and the beginning of the Second. They were more or less immune to the gouging that CTD and every other retailer was inflicting on the desperate.
The Desperate, in the meantime, have grown weary of shelling out upwards of $1 a round for 5.56 that used to cost half or one-third that much. And at the same time, every ammunition manufacturer has been running their production lines three shifts a day for seven days a week.
And it’s starting to show in the increased inventory and lower prices we’re seeing. Forty cents a round for steel-cased Russian 5.56 may not seem like the deal of the century, but the return of bulk 5.56 ammo at any price is no small cause for celebration.
Here’s my advice: don’t start to party just yet. If you have no ammo you should grab yourself 500 rounds for $200, but don’t dial in your 5,000 order because prices are going to continue to fall until they reach *something like* the equilibrium they found last autumn. Tula 5.56 was $0.22 a round delivered, and 9mm was about the same.
They might not fall back there in the next two months, but I’m waiting until 9mm and 5.56 fall to $300 per thousand delivered before I add to my stockpile. It will get there, fairly soon, unless the unthinkable happens before then.
Yeah, I’ve noticed reloading components are starting to drop back down to near pre panic prices as well. This tells me that ammo isn’t too far behind it. I saw a DPMS Ar15 at my LGS yesterday for 649 brand new. Also at Wal Mart they’re carrying ARs again, so if there ever was a sign that may be it? hopefully…
I saw two Colt 6920s, one of them a Black MOE edition, in Walmart at pre-panic prices.
Say what you will about Walmart… But that whole thing made me feel good.
Till I overheard some schmuck talking about how they sell machineguns in Wallmart.
Has not dropped yet what r they waiting for. just bought an AR for $620 and the shelf’s where stocked with them at my local gun store??? plus ten to 15 of them always at Bass Pro shop 1200 down to 600 where is the ammo drop ???
I’ve shot almost none of my stash over the past six months. If I can get by this episode without having paid scare prices on anything, I’m coming out on top.
Times were bizarre when it almost cost less to go out and shoot new production 7.5 Swiss out of my K31 than it did to pop off some 5.56 through my Saiga.
I’ve been honing bullet dies nonstop for weeks :(… my thumbs hurt. Orders keep coming in non-stop, almost all 5.56 and 7.62. Soo, at least we know they are pumping out the rounds.
CTD is off my vendor list. Raising prices some due to availability is smart business, but they clearly engaged in price gouging. I won’t forget that. I would rather keep their competitors in business than save money, no matter how low they go.
Ditto.
I’d rather do without than do any business with CTD.
John
I’ll never buy from CTD again. What they did was over the line.
Fourthed (if that’s a word), CTD’s never getting my business, or business from anyone I know. I’m tempted to do the same with Cabella’s considering what they did to my dad (waited 4 months before cancelling his order, even though it wasn’t even listed as backordered when he placed his order for 500 rounds online).
Nic Said,
“I’m tempted to do the same with Cabella’s considering what they did to my dad (waited 4 months before cancelling his order, even though it wasn’t even listed as backordered when he placed his order for 500 rounds online).”
Yeah, I had the same type thing happen to me during the Clinton gun ban in ’94. I had ordered 5 new magazines for my M1A from Springfield Armory, they took the order and gave me an estimated delivery date in the middle of the next week. Well, when my order didn’t show up, I got on the phone to Springfield Armory to see where my order was and got a recording announcing their “new pricing structure and procedure for M1A magazines.” It seems that all orders taken in the past 3 weeks would only be filled at the “new” price of $55.00 per mag! I had ordered them, and had my order accepted, at $15.00 per mag!
That’s been 20 years ago, I sold my Springfield M1A and purchased one from their competitors, and I’ve not purchased a single, solitary item from Springfield Armory since. I hate price gougers.
Not to mention the fact that Cheaper Than Dirt pulled sporting rifles from sale in the wake of Sandy Hook (ala Dick’s Sporting Goods).
If you don’t support something when the going gets rough, you never really supported it. And if you don’t support the lawful ownership of modern sporting rifles, you don’t support the 2nd Amendment.
I don’t do business with companies that don’t 100% support the 2nd Amendment–especially gun supply companies.
CTD is getting no more of my business at any price.
Cleophus, I believe Checkmate Industries offers the exact same mag (but without the Springfield logo) for roughly half the price. That is one expensive logo, and it kind of irritates me, as well.
Peter has it right. CTD can charge whatever they want, I don’t care. Their greatest sin in this whole ordeal was to make a big deal about suspending AR sales. It gave ammo to the gun grabbers to beat up on the platform, and it is unforgivable.
Yep, never going to do another dimes worth of business with Dumber Than Dirt.
Re: CTD
Like Tony sez “They’re dead to me”
I’ll buy from Dicks before I buy from CTD, which is to say, not gonna walk across the street to piss on them, when they hold the fire sale before go bk.
I remember a torture test using several AR’s and different ammo. I think it was ARFCOM. The russian steel cased stuff burned out rifling fairly quick…
I’ll see if I can find the link
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
This is it. Thanks Geoff.
Barrel burn in a 5.56/.223 is not the ammo’s fault. The rate of fire and the time to cool has everything to do with it. Chrome lined barrels will extend that time, but heat will catch up. Theoretically, if you fire every round cold bore, the barrel will never wear.
Ram how do you rationalize your spouting off with their real world experiment that shows the exact opposite? Did you shoot 40K rounds through 4 carbines and achieve different results?
@nathanredbeard. That test is ridiculous. 10k rounds in that short of a time will generate plenty of heat, swell the barrel and accelerate damage.
In no real application of fire (outside of an armory’s last stand) will someone blow off 10k rounds in that short of a time span. Again, the heat is the issue. Heat generated by an unrealistic volume of fire.
Do the same test over the span of time the average range plinker takes to burn through 10k rounds and get back to me.
Thanks Geoff. I just got home from work (where I can’t post on TTAG) and was going to put that link up if no one else had.
Very interesting findings. Great read. I’ve shot my share of the steel stuff. But at the rate I’m going my AR barrels will start showing wear sometime after the upcoming tricentennial. 🙂 Of course, by that time I’ll be showing a lot of wear myself. Mostly from decomposition.
I read the article and my thinking was along the same lines. I’ve been *really* lucky to do a lot of shooting over the past couple of years, and my AR has had a couple of thousand rounds through it. Ditto my Arsenal AK in the last year.
Almost all of those rounds have been steel Tula or Wolf, which has been so cheap(compared to new-manufactured brass 5.56) that I could probably buy another AR or AK with the money I’ve already saved. Steel ammo may put more wear on my rifles, but both of them are still highly accurate and 100% reliable. Tula isn’t the most accurate, but I can’t really tell the difference when I’m shooting steel targets until I get past 300 yards. (And that seldom happens.)
If it takes me 6,000 more rounds of steel-cased ammo to wear out each of these rifles, that tells me these are pretty damned good guns to last so long.
And I will have saved enough money to buy their replacements once or twice over.
There might be $2500 race guns that I wouldn’t shoot steel through, but my working-grade AR and AK love the stuff. And so do I, when I can find it.
Has not dropped yet what r they waiting for. just bought an AR for $620 and the shelf’s where stocked with them at my local gun store??? plus ten to 15 of them always at Bass Pro shop 1200 down to 600 where is the ammo drop ???
I was lucky enough to find some CCI 22LR yesterday, was a good day.
i was in CO a few weeks back and i was just going to gun stores and doing more browsing than buying but i stumbled across some 22. i bought all they would allow me to buy. 3 boxes. 2 50 rd cci boxes and 1 50 rd federal box. i had a family member who stayed in the car go into the store and buy the 1 box they had left. heh heh
I got some cci not to long ago was lucky to show up when the store litterally had just gotten shipment of 30 500 rd cases that was a good day for me but I could only buy one case =/
I think I hate you all. * grins *
I’ve been getting .223 Tula at my LGS for $32.99 per 100. I’ve been pretty happy with it so far!
What’s painful is that you could find Federal XM193 for that before the election.
Federal XM193 is about .55c/round in northern Utah.
Stings a bit.
I bought some Federal XM193 for $0.50/rnd from Palmetto State Armory last week
Midway has 20-round boxes of Tula .223 for $5.99 per box in stock right now. …so we’re down to $0.30 these days…
JMS are you factoring in the shipping into that $0.30 a round?
Midway’s shipping on ammo is nuts. I don’t know how many times I’ve loaded up a cart there, gotten as far as typing in my cc# and gone “hey wait a minute!”. Usually the final $/! doesn’t beat my LGS.
Yeah, I don’t really want to put that junk through my gun.
The people who bought houses across the street from my gun club this year are in for a big shock when the shooting starts up again in earnest.
I can’t wait to see reports of “shots fired on Long Lane” in the police logs.
If you can stand to do business with CTD…
Nope, I’ll wait for someone else to get a shipment in.
I just love how both the readers and the editors of this website know nothing about basic economics. When demand goes up, prices go up. And, when the demand goes down (you guessed it!), prices fall. But somehow, this is too difficult for many here to comprehend, which leads to CTD bashing and other hysteria. For a while, that was the only place to buy ammo. Yes, the price was higher for obvious reasons, but you did not have to buy from them, or anyone else for that matter. And if you found a better price elsewhere and didn’t mind the limit of ‘1 box per customer’ or some other restriction (which btw shows the store owner’s misunderstanding of economics as well), then by all means, go shop there. Nobody owes you anything.
Another example: I have a few G19 magazines, don’t really need more, but I’m checking prices and supply now and then. A few months back, when it was impossible to get them, my LGS had some in stock, for $50 each. To me, there was no value there, because I had enough magazines and I was OK with waiting a little for the demand to subside and prices to come down in case I wanted to buy some more. So when I abstained from the purchase, it meant that now there was still enough stock left for somebody who really wanted to to buy those magazines and didn’t mind paying the $50 price. And I didn’t need to bash the store manager or complain about the price, because I understood why they set it so high.
Cheaper Than Dirt is Deader Than Dirt to me.
Some of us are riled about their pulling scary type rifles in December in a grand display of political correctness. Then returning them when they felt things had quieted down enough. Yes, we’re all aware of supply and demand and the associated dynamics. My disappointment hasn’t got that much to do with their gouging.
I agree with you about that, the move to suddenly stop selling guns for no clear reason was certainly odd and upset many people. No argument there.
Honestly I think CTD pulled guns to save their stocks for when they could charge a higher price for the products, and in turn make more money. I know there was quite a snafu when they were canceling existing orders made right before the panic, and then turning around and selling that same product at double the price. I dont know why TTAG even felt it necessary to give CTD free advertising, as there are people who will go there and buy the cheaper ammo because they dont know about the unscrupulous business practices of those A-holes.
What BillF said.
Similar situation with a LGS in my area. They have plenty of ammo in stock. It’s all at what I consider to be high prices. No one else in the area has much ammo at all.
So, if I choose to pay the higher price, I can have all the ammo I want. Luckily, I’m well stocked so I choose not to pay the price.
Simple economics.
We DO get basic economics. And most folks were able to find Pmags that were not $100 per mag (an exaggeration, but close enough) on other sites during the crisis along with every other item in danger of being limited. When your asking price is not consistent with other vendors, then you are perceived as trying to take advantage of the situation. And people don’t like that. I think that is what YOU don’t get.
If other vendors have the same item for sale for much less, then people will choose to buy there, thus the only loser in this transaction will be CTD until they can correct the price to the proper level. If they don’t bring the price down while other vendors have plenty of supply at lower price, then CTD won’t make any money. I think what happened was that CTD assumed the supply everywhere would be sold out instantly, so they increased prices very quickly, perhaps too quickly. And if that’s so, then their “punishment” would be the loss of revenue, and that’s how it should be.
Valid point about supply and demand. However, many readers here, including myself, are more upset with CTD’s recent history of flip-flopping like a politician and acting like they are still our best friend, when other vendors maintained a moral commitment to the shooting community. Many of these even refused to raise prices anywhere near the degree that CTD did, so when we have options, we stick with the vendors that stuck with us.
Walmart, for example, never raised the prices on ammo or firearms.
I know there were issues with employees calling their buddies to buy out ammo when it came in so that they could resell it online – but the chain itself never raised prices.
AIM Surplus never really raised their prices for ammo. Of course, they never actually have any in stock.
Others like Natchez and Midway raised them a reasonable amount, and mostly were able to keep some stock.
I would assume that the cost to the retailers was going up, and the volume that they could get to sell was going down, so of course prices had to rise, but CTD went nuts and now we (a/k/a the market) are punishing them for it.
+1
In your economy analysis lecture you forgot that CTD doubled and tripled prices before anyone, consistently charged higher and sometime very unrealistic prices for ammo and mags, and have been slower to lower prices as stock has come back.
There have also been reports of people having their orders cancelled by CTD because post-order confirmation the price was raised. CTD was more than happy to let people re-order at the higher price. Regardless of economics, it’s not right to conduct a transaction at a certain price, then cancel it because you want to charge more.
(sigh)
The problem with CTD is that they cancelled peoples orders because they supposedly did not have the item while simultaneously posting the same item on their website for as much as 6 times the previous price.
In my original comment I was referring to CTD’s prices only. What you are describing is certainly unfair to those who placed their orders ahead of time, at a price both parties agreed on at the time. Also their change of heart to stop and then start selling rifles again…I cannot blame anyone who refuses to do business with them for those reasons alone. I personally haven’t shopped there since the crisis begun, I found better prices and policies elsewhere.
I’d it helps you realize that we do understand price gouging……. I would never buy from you either.
You obviously didn’t get the point.
Mr. Pierogie
Economics 101 there are three ways to attain wealth: A. Have it given to you, B. Steal it, C. Earn it.
When CTD has a price that is higher then the competition people perceive that CTD is trying to steal their wealth. You are right no one has to buy from CTD but perception is far more important in economics, and people’s buying habits, then supply and demand.
In many cases, and you can find more than one in these remarks, CTD played the “politically correct” game. That and their raising of prices to heights that people, unless desperate for the ammunition, would not pay has resulted in people refusing to deal further with CTD. It also is having an effect, but to far lesser degree, on WalMart with their politically correctness concerning firearms.
WalMart will probably survive their “political correct” blunder because of keeping their prices within reason whereas CTD may not. You cannot piss off a great portion of the shooting public without consequences which CTD is about to learn.
Hmm…I’m not sure if I understand how perception is more important than economics. I guess it could be if people don’t understand economics, because then they will complain about high prices without understanding why the market set them so high. Thus, I think, people’s lack of understanding of econ principles can lead them to boycott certain retailers, even though the market is trying to set the new, correct price, whether it’s higher or lower. I mean, to look at this from another angle, if I set up a store now that sold Pmags for $5, I would have a ton of customers who would sing high praises and gave me 5 star reviews for the low price, and those customers would surely come back. However, I would not be in business very long, since it costs me more to buy those magazines at wholesale prices. But I think you can see that absolutely NOBODY would complain about the super low price, because why would they? They’re getting a great deal. But, when the market forces push prices up, everybody complains.
Muleskinner, your Econ 101 says everything about your paranoid attitude to being cheated. The real Econ 101 is that there are three possibilities when something is in short supply — readily available and very expensive, rationed and less expensive, or not available at all. If you prefer #2, (so you didn’t mind making regular stops at half a dozen retailers and then going home empty handed anyway?) then continue to patronize the businesses that rationed ammo. But I would rather buy ammo from a place like CDT than the guys that bought out every shipment from Wal-Mart so they could resell it online.
Mr. Pierogie:
First I didn’t say what you think I said. The point is that IN economics a customer’s perception is far more important then supply and demand. For instance if one is to perceive that the price of object X is too high (whether it is or not) they will not buy object X. Why? Well, that has to do with the price of something verses the cost of a product. Price is the amount of money given or set as consideration for the sale of a specified thing. CTD has ever right to set the price of their ammunition at whatever point they wish.
Cost on the other hand has to do with what the buyer is willing part with to own object X. For instance the customer may refuse to pay CTD’s price for object X because they can’t buy something else that is needed; it might be cigarettes, fuel, rent, diapers…etc.
Thus the cost of object X is too high for the customer.
Just as important the customer may not buy object X from CTD, even at the going market price or lower, because they feel that the company doesn’t have their best interest at heart. The customer then feels that supporting CTD will increase their problem even though object X is need. In this case conscience, fear, hatred, caution, a bad experience with customer service etc… all of these emotions (along any rational you may think of) may become part of the cost of doing business with CTD. These emotions and or experiences again place the cost of doing business with CTD too high. So the customer goes else where to buy and in some case paying a higher price in dollars but being emotionally satisfied.
To say that this doesn’t happen and isn’t apart of the buying public conscience is to make the mistake of over simplifying economics to supply and demand and cost being only subject to dollar while ignoring the major factors that go into a purchase.
Now, your point is well taken concerning the business of selling mags, but consider this there are many people in this country who will NOT buy anything labeled “made in China” regardless of the price. Why is that? Well, we are back to the question of REAL total cost and what the purchaser is willing to part with beside their dollars.
@Pierogie
Get your head out of your azz about “basic economics”.
It wasn’t about CTD simply raising prices responding to market forces…..
It was about them CANCELLING ORDERS that were already on peoples cards before Sandy Hook, and then REPOSTING those some rifles at elevated prices. That’s a F’ing company that deserves to be punished HARD.
I just got my 25 boxes of .223 at 50 cents a round and 20 boxes of 9mm at 30 cents a round from Cabela’s, plus 3 boxes of PDX 1 .223 after watching the video of Nick using those with the watermelons.
I need cci mini mags
CTD – somewhat surprisingly – claims to have .22LR CCI Mini Mags in stock, if you can stomach $39.95 for a box of 100. I haven’t seen them anywhere in months. I have no idea how BSA summer camp shooting programs are surviving this summer…
Wow!! at the price drop. A couple of weeks ago they were selling them @ 50 cents per round, now they’re all the way down to 40 cents per round. I’m gonna order me ten thousand rounds. That will be a thousand dollar savings. Wheeeee!!
I’ve seen CCI Mini Mags at the local Cabela’s.
Just paid about 11 bucks a 100-round box (if I remember correctly) for CCI Mini Mag 36gr hollowpoints at Sportsman’s Warehouse a few weeks ago.
I never wanted an AR for years when .223 cost closer to .33 each. I thought that was way too much, and have been totally amazed at the buck-a-round prices recently.
I just want some cheap shooting again, like the mid-90’s comblock AK stuff, is that too much to ask?
I did buy a complete RRA AR lower last month (when they came back down to $300, at retail, in a store) with the intent of completing it in 9mm, although I know that isn’t cheap either, but what is?
Most Glorious 7.62x54r from the Motherland is still nice and cheap. It was affected like all the other ammunition for a while, and then companies realized, “hey, we have hundreds of thousands of rounds of this stuff.” So it’s back to pre-panic prices.
That round doesn’t fit in an AR build, but the 5.45×39 round does. I’m keeping a keen eyeball on the Tavor conversion kits for that caliber. $0.18 per round just seems irresistible.
http://www.usacsales.com/ammunition/545×39-ammo-can
Now that you mention it, an AR in x54r would be pretty fun.
Wolf 7.62×39 and a Russian gun that’s engineered to shoot it all day long is the way to go. $0.30/rd, shipped from Ammoman.
Problem is a lot of ranges will look kick you out for using bi-metal or steel core ammo.
@pwrserge No, a lot of ranges NEAR YOU will kick you out for using bi-metal or steel core ammo…. pretty much every range I’ve been to around Pittsburgh, PA area doesn’t give a crap
a .223 rifle or even tactical rifle is ideal for introducing someone light into shooting or even tactical shooting if it was legal i would use this calibre for training my 13 yr old daughter or 11 yr old son in tactical shooting as it is powerful enough to teach them the effects of recoil
When academy has no limit on American eagle .223 for $7.99 and Walmart has the same ammo no limit for $7.49 and 9mm Winchester white box 115gr for $23/100 THEN ill say the panic is over. Wait a week and then blow $300 on ammo.
Winchester is a clean round and prolongs the life of the gun which also means less cleaning and are worth the money
Buy it cheap & stack it deep.
For after the next shooting
Behold a speech from the Veep.
Because those don’t learn from history.
Are surely doomed to repeat.
Funny
Last Month Coastal Ranch Supply was selling AE 223 for .40 rnd and that’s brass cased with a rep for accuracy
PS
CTD is DEAD TO ME
DEAD
The prices for the ARs fell because the price of the ammo was so high IF it could be had at all.
What good is any gun if there is no ammo available for it.
The prices for AKs are higher than the ARs now because the ammo is more readily available and at a much lower price.
When/if the prices for .223/5.56 go back down to pre-scare prices the cost of the ARs will go back up again and the cost of an AK will go back down again.
To be fair J&G has some really nice $600 AK’s, other than the WASR. Not sure about anymore though, but for a while they were giving away Yugo O-PAP’s for $600.
Kentucky Gun Co has M+M M10s (Romanian AKs) with threaded/chrome lined barrels, weaver forends, and tapco grip/stocks for $620 shipped. Waiting on mine to hit my FFL. I might even do a review on it. 🙂
Nice. I managed to snag a VEPR-12 for $1100 myself 😀 I spent all night oogling over it.
LGS has American Eagle $9.99 per box of 20 five weeks ago, with no limit. A few weeks before that they had it at the same price but with a five box limit. The only thing that they are still rationing is 9mm, and they are allowing more of that.
Alas I remember passing on 1,000 rounds of 62gr 5.56 only a week before Sandy Hook cause I figured I was fine with the 500-some-odd rounds I had and didn’t want to spend the $330 at the time when all was said and done.
Funny thing is that I picked up whatever deal I could during the panic and have more .223/5.56 ammo (and some other calibers) now than I ever had before. Didn’t want to risk missing an opportunity so I could shoot my gun but didn’t want to shoot my gun afraid that I wouldn’t be able to replenish ammo. Thankfully in the last few weeks I have started to dig into the reserves cause dammitall, I like shooting my guns.
The local jokers on Armslist here have finally given up on their buck a round stupidity and cases are being listed at about .40 per for brass 5.56. Doesnt look like those are selling too well though. Everybody must either have enough on hand or they’re just broke.
I refused and still refuse to buy from the price gougers on Armslist. People trying to sell a bone stock SKS for $1000, or 50 round boxes of steel cased 9mm for$45 dollars. I hope those douches get stuck with crap they overpaid for in the panic, and get shafted with stock they cant even move at price.
Its all well and good where I live, plenty of stock and prices are steadily falling, but God help you if you need some 22lr.
I learned from ages past that when things go dark there is a slow run-up to the tipping point and then BAM!
I was prepped years before this happened, upped my stocks after 2009 especially 22LR when the commodity prices surged
Gouging?
I normally expect TTAG to have a free-market slant, rather than a socialist slant.
Why is it price-gouging to sell something at the market price? If I buy a bunch of Google stock then the price takes off and I sell it, is that price gouging?
When retailers artificially hold their prices down in the face of increased demand or decreased supply, what happens? Shortages. Because panic buyers rush out and buy, even though they don’t need it. If the prices adjust with the market forces, then panic buyers stay away. The people who actually need it go buy it, which allows supplies to stay somewhat stable.
The same thing happens before hurricanes. Because retailers who raise their prices when demand goes up get fined by anti-capitalist governments, they keep their prices low, and panic buyers buy all their batteries, water, etc. Panic buyers stock up extra deep, which prevents those who need the items from getting them at all.
That should also sound very familiar to any of you who bought gas in the ’70s, when federal law prevented gas stations from raising their prices, and they saw ridiculously long lines of cars waiting at pumps that had nothing to sell.
Gouging? Yeah, when somebody is trying to sell GI AR magazines for $120 apiece, I’ll call that gouging.
It’s not socialist to call it gouging, it’s just plain smart. It would be socialist to demand legislation to make all bad deals illegal, but I didn’t demand that, did I?
Almost all vendors raised their prices dramatically after Sandy Hook; that’s just business. But CTD breached their contracts and stained themselves with the Scarlet Letter of Douchiness when they canceled existing contracts (bargained for in good faith by both parties) in order to sell the same merchandise to newer and more desperate buyers at grossly inflated profits.
If it had been worth suing CTD for breach of contract, they would have been forced to cough up all that unjust enrichment and honor their pre-existing contracts.
THAT, and not mere price gouging, is why I’m not buying from CTD.
Been thru all this B4 during the Clinton years but it wasn’t anything like what has happened in the last 6-7 months. Absolute insanity. What does that tell you about joe’s sixpack’s perception of Clintonian era ant-igun rhetoric vs. Obama era anti-gun rhetoric?
And to the asshat who gave us a lecture on supply and demand, how exactly does that work during times of a natural disaster when people need chain saws, generators and bottled water and the prices have been doubled over night? It’s called price gouging and it is illegal in my state.
Yes it’s called price gouging, and how it works is that there aren’t any chain saws or generators or bottled water because they sold out and they can’t be restocked because of idiot price gouging laws. So you’d rather have nothing than pay extra. I would not. Hurricane Sandy gave us another reminder of how price gouging laws hurt people, but you keep sitting up there on your moral high horse calling people names.
When the price of chain saws doubles overnight it’s still supply and demand.
Price controls don’t prevent shortages, they cause them.
When gas is at the regular price, the first 10 people after a disaster buy all they can carry whether they need it or not and the next 90 get nothing (and those guys promptly try to sell it around the corner for triple what the paid for it). When/if the price increases to triple the “regular” price, a lot more people get what they *need* (if they can afford it) because they don’t buy all they can get instead of what they need.
It’s exactly the same as what’s happening with ammo and the guys on Armslist. That guy “knows” that ammo us under priced because people are paying X times regular price so he buys all he can get – not what he needs – and tries to sell it for a profit because it’s almost a sure bet profit (at least until the market normalizes and the risk of getting caught out on the wrong side of the deal gets too high)
“Anti-price gouging” laws are an attempt to repeal the laws of physics, or at least economics and human behavior.
To point out the good guys, I ordered 1000rds of S&B 9mm from Sportsmen’s Guide just as Sandy Hook occurred. It was a pre-order due in July. It came in early, in May & was delivered @ the same $208. price as at the time of order. No gouging or other nonsense. These people have earned my permanent business.
Bad advice.
You should buy when the price reaches your tolerance level – that’s how markets work. What happens when you decide to hold out for the lowest possible price is this – you get stuck trying to guess what that will be and consequently have no ammo. You will likely miss out on either ammo, a savings, or both.
I’m not suggesting blowing the wad on all the ammo now. Simply set an amount you are willing to spend (not a round count you want to buy). Then keep spending that amount every month till you get the desired quantities. That way if the price keeps going down, so does the average price you have paid for all the ammo you’ve bought along the way. When the price bottoms out or even turns back around your previous purchases will still be keeping your average price per round lower than what everyone else is paying, with the added benefit of having a predictable impact on your finances.
This is true for buying any commodities.
CTD is dead to me. I honestly don’t understand how or why anyone in the gun community would rationalize away morality for a little available product. They ran when the fight got real and came back after the dust settled, and given the chance they’ll do it again. There’s a term for CTD’s behavior. It’s called lack of character, and in my book that’s a deal breaker. Always.
uhh…if it’s the principal of the matter re CTD, why isn’t anyone pissed off at luckygunner.com?
and as i look at midwayusa.com and cabelas.com, their prices are up almost 50% in certain cases.
*btw, i’ve been spending money with midway and cabelas. not with CTD. they have, relatively, great prices and regular supply.
and not being a strict capitalist (as is CTD and many of you), i do appreciate some of the qty limits put in place by the vendors.
i was able to carefully accumulate a “lifetime supply” of magazines and such all through the panic – and all at msrp or below. did i pay more than i would’ve if i had bought in ’12? sure, but then again, i didn’t spend any money on mags in ’12.
and being in the (formerly) free state of colorado, i’m set now, mainly due to purchase qty limits set by scrupulous sellers (and a big fat THANK YOU to magpul and their Boulder Airlift program).
that’s the main reason i’ll tilt my purchases towards cabelas and midway (where i’ll buy magpul if there’s a choice) in the future.
it’s not capitalism, it’s customer service. which is a much, much better long term strategy.
Customer service and quantity limits are capitalist-driven. Good service is good for business. Limiting quantities means that more customers will see ammo on the shelf. They may come back later, expecting to find more. Those customers will tell their friends, who may come in and buy something, even if they’re too late for the ammo.
i don’t care about 5.56. i want 9mm!!!!
The fact that I was able to walk into Wal-Mart on a Sunday afternoon and pick up 300 rds of Winchester 9mm at <$.25/rd and then send my wife right in for 300 more, to me at least, means the drought is pretty much over.
I’ve snagged a couple thousand rounds of Tula 233 off gunbroker for around $300 per thousand over the course of the drought. There were deals on there if you knew what to search for. I wouldn’t pay more than that for them, but I like having them around.
When things started turning ugly after the election and friend gave me a very good piece of advise…don’t just stock up on ammo, stock up on ammo stock.
ATK have been a very good investment…they own CCI.
I have been seeing .223/5.56 everywhere for a few months and getting closer to normal prices. Steel is way cheaper than the prices quoted at least here I got 500 of Wolf for $150 out the door almost 2 months ago and I got a 420 can of LC m855 on stripper clips for $175 the same time period. They dealer that had the Wolf had PMC Bronze or Xtac 55 grain your’e choice $400 per case saw a couple other dealers still clinging to the high prices but none higher then $600 per case. I saw some of the Australian ADI s109 stuff too $450/900 with a 50 cal can better then what had been online this was all May and early June. Seems like most floating around is Independence, and PMC XTAC/Bronze but I have still been seeing some other mfg just not as much. Bass Pro had tons of Independence for $10 the other day AE Tipped Varmint $12, Fed 55 grain SP, Barnes with the 55 grain copper bullet, and some value WWB 40 packs that were 40 grain and crazy expensive. I don’t think they had any limit on what you could buy either never saw a sign don’t think Cabela’s has a limit on centerfire either now. I even got a set of Hornady .223 dies there had a couple sets haven’t seen them in forever never planned on reloading it but since I save my brass might as well at least have the option.
when I can get a case (1000rnds) of CCI 5200 or 5201, Federal AE9AP or AE9FP (FMJFP) ammo for $225 shipped again, I’ll call the drought over.
I have got lucky to find some 9mm, and lots of .45acp, .40S&W has been hard to come by though unless you want to pay the same as .45. One local Walmart of 7 seems to be the only one that ever has ammo and May 8th my mouth dropped when I wondered back not expecting much. They had 10 Fed 100 packs of .45 and probably 7 in 9mm, They had one 100 pack of WWB .380 and .40 but were $37 each I paid $22 for the 9mm and $32 for the .45. They had more other ammo but nothing to interesting so I got the 2 9mm they allowed me and 1 .45 and the last .45 that was there the next day and the day after they had tons more ammo in but all that was interesting was the one can of 420 m855 I got. Has anybody else noticed Walmarts in their area getting mostly one brand or another? The one near me that seems to regularly get ammo has mostly Federal and the one by my parents has tons of Remington so much .308 never seen so much at a Walmart ever. They had 2 shelves full of 40 packs of Rem and 4 full boxes of it on the top to restock those shelves I got some Rem 9mm, .45acp, and some expensive Rem ballistic tipped .22WMR there. They had 2 full display boxes of CCI .22wmr too I bought a few boxes of. They had some Tula 9mm bout 10 boxes but other than that was most all Remington. They let me buy more then 3 boxes at a time too haven’t seen that in months they had almost as much ammo as most the local gun shops.
Shameless theft of joke from friends email today…..
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The situation on getting ammo is getting really tight, but this morning I lucked out and was able to buy two boxes of ammo.
I placed the boxes on the front seat and headed back home, but stopped at a gas station where a drop-dead gorgeous blonde in a short skirt was filling up her car at the next pump.
She glanced at the two boxes of ammo, bent over and leaned in my passenger window, and said in a sexy voice, “I’m a big believer in barter, old fella. Would you be interested in trading sex for ammo?”
I thought for a few seconds and asked, “What kind of ammo ‘ya got?”
Found and ordered online 500 rounds CCI Velocitor 40 GR plated hollow point delivered $76, reasonable to me, yes
Some of the on line retailers that did not have inventory, did not buy at inflated prices, would not offer to sell at inflated prices
Was not cheaper than soil ?
I know were I will buy ammo, parts, accessories
brain fart
WAS cheaper than “Cheaper than soil”
PS- happened to order a couple of Magpul Gen3 10 rdr mags just before Sandy Hook. Figured those were long gone and pleasantly surprised Midway updated and sent them promptly when back in stock… got some .223 at a decent price at the same time. Nice folks, gonna go back. Also paid a higher price at my LGS, for a few boxes to help them out, in time of otherwise bare shelves- long-time community best-practices shop, highly recommended by all the gunnies and knowledgeable LEOs for good work. Gotta support the good guys, even if it costs a couple bucks more sometimes.
The “crises” will be over when I can walk in any sporting goods store and find bricks of 22lr for less than $20.
As far as CTD goes, they can go to hell before I put their web address back on my bookmarks list.
CHEAT YOU LIKE DIRT will never get another purchase from me. They were the most obvious in price gouging.
Seems like prices have stabilized in the .45 cent range per round of .223 or .556 for brass cased FMJ . . .. . wish it would bust below that . . . but seems like it doesn’t want to dip lower. . . . .
And thanks for the Israeli Super model 🙂
Are we there Yet?
What are you seeing? Where? How much $ for how many?
Well, it’s 2016 and the prices are through the friggin’ roof. How much longer do ya reckon I’ll have to wait for it to go down, again? Lmao, ya had better see if you can get a return on that crystal ball, it sucks azz! Lol, just giving you a hard time, pal. I figured it would drop back down EVENTUALLY, also, but how were we to know that the Bastard setting in the Oval Office is a raving LUNITIC! Looks like WW-3 is about to break out and not because the entire Mideast is on fire, but because we don’t want Pervs going to the restrooms with our Mothers, wives and daughters. It’s a mad, mad World we’re living in, my friend. I’m about ready to buy a reloader, IF all the components aren’t all gone, by the time I get to Cabellas,geez!
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