Common sense. Violations of this flowchart are punishable by 10 years in federal prison. https://t.co/UKGCVe9F5T pic.twitter.com/IW6Nx2yQHx
— Open Source Defense (@opensrcdefense) October 12, 2020
Contrary to popular belief, gun rights have been getting nearly-monotonically more popular for 25+ years. The installed base of AR-15s is ~50x what it was at the time of the ‘94 ban, and its growth is only accelerating (numbers in the same link from the previous sentence). And most importantly, despite the best efforts of centralized content crackdowns, empirically it has never been easier to learn about guns than it is today. Still not even close to as easy as we’d like, but it has undeniably never been easier.
Over the next few weeks, there’s going to be a lot of discussion about pistol braces. Don’t run away from it — embrace, expand, and amplify it. Every mention of a pistol brace ban should be embraced and expanded into what it is — a proud endorsement of a decade in prison for a 15.9” barrel — and then loudly amplified.
If somebody wants to tie their name to the philosophy of mass incarceration, they’re free to do so. In 2021, we’ll see who still thinks that’s the polite thing to believe.
— Open Source Defense in Unbrace yourself
I do not believe it has anything to do with “pistol braces” itself. It’s more about the legal aspect that any deviation from what is and is not NFA specs can get your gun rights taken away if not done correctly. It’s a method of operation used as an excuse to get guns out of the hands of the general population. Just like Covid19 gets used to control the masses. The barrel length, vertical foregrips, overall length, etc. are nothing more than how it’s done. With the AR platform, it’s very easy to build a SBR. That just adds fuel to the fire and makes the gun grabbers push even harder.
The first two years of Pres. Trump could have seen the end of the NFA. The republicans just simply would not do that and THAT is why we are dealing with this now. Like so many other things, there was so little desire from ANYONE to help Trump do ANYTHING and yet they whine about ‘needing the votes’.
“The first two years of Pres. Trump could have seen the end of the NFA. The republicans just simply would not do that and THAT is why we are dealing with this now.”
Are you seriously that stupid? Trump never had the 60 votes to overcome the filibuster. That’s the very same filibuster that’s keeping the Leftist scum from banning all semi-auto rifles right now, (among other anti-gun things).
Just drop the anti-Trump bullshit, OK? We have a SCOTUS now that at the least isn’t actively anti-gun. With Hillary making those court picks, we would be really screwed now…
“That’s the very same filibuster that’s keeping the Leftist scum from banning all semi-auto rifles right now”
now who’s being “that stupid”.
The Filibuster your are counting on to save you from leftist gun control is hanging on the prayer that Joe Manchin actually holds to promise to not “reimagine” the filibuster.
Joe Manchin, is well liked, and everyone says he’s a great guy, but he has never been one who would stand his ground on key issues. He folds like a new player at a poker table.
He folds like a new player at a poker table.
BUT, he hasn’t YET, and there has been NO indication so far that he will, at least on this issue… He’s not stupid, he understands that eventually the other side will come back in power and the right has already showed them how that simple majority works both ways with judicial appointments… Thanks Harry…
The semi-auto rifles in the homes of Americans keep the scum from banning semi-auto rifles. Don’t Lexington and Concord us bro
Only the federal government could dream up something to promote gun safety, like a ban on pistol braces which only serve to make pistols more accurate and improve your ability to hit what you are shooting at, as opposed to not having one and being more likely to miss your target and to hit something you weren’t intending to.
I fight gun control based on the fact that Gun Control in any shape or form is rooted in racism and genocide. Anything else is downhill from that.
That’s the least I can do since on an hourly basis I am labeled by pompous Gun Control Zealots as RACIST just because I own firearms. Make no mistake about it… That label sells to history illiterates.
AND if Gun Owners fail to properly address being labeled RACISTS by exposing the rot inherent with Gun Control then GUN OWNERS allowed the label to stand and whatever happens they have no one to blame but themselves.
Gun Control in this country had its roots in keeping the Newly Freed slaves from getting armed. The Democrats feared retribution from, now Freedmen angry at their inhumane treatment when they were slaves. Democrats still push gun control to keep people dependent on the State for protection, oddly enough, while pushing for defunding the Police!
They won’t mass-incarcerate. The game is to add as many people as possible to the list of “prohibited persons”. They will make a person a felon, strip their right to keep and bear arms, their right to vote and add them to additional lists to deny them a normal life. No prison time required.
So, if we all ignore it, then will they attempt “mass incarceration”?
I don’t think they can afford that as the people they would be incarcerating are the ones that do the “real work” in the United States.
they would be incarcerating are the ones that do the “real work”
Why do you think THEY are pushing so hard for open borders, workers are replaceable with “cheaper” more compliant labor… It’s not about elections and voters… If they can get rid of the “resistance” there won’t BE any more elections… There won’t be a lot “incarceration”, but there will be a lot of “killed while resisting” and “shot in the back while fleeing”…
“Why do you think THEY are pushing so hard for open borders“
Nope, just like with the right wing, there are left wing extremists who say stupid things but the vast majority of liberal Democrats do not want open borders, only a reasonable asylum hearing process timeline.
And it’s not the liberal Democrat voters who want cheap labor, it’s the corporate-industrial complex that employs these laborers, in the fields or in the factories.
This is not a new pattern, we saw it in the Appalachian coalfields in the early 1900s. First, the Coal barons would employ the local folk, mostly Scots-Irish.
When they refused to work in the mines for slave wages in dangerous conditions where thousands of miners died each year, they were labeled lazy hillbillies and forced out of their company housing.
And then the wealthy industrial Coal barons brought in wave after wave of Italian, Hungarian, Latvian, Mexican, African-American workers, intentionally utilizing their language and culture differences to prevent the formation of labor unions to advocate for safer working conditions and better pay and benefits.
Everybody curses so-called socialist or Marxist left wing liberals, but it is truly the multinational corporations and Wall Street/Cayman financiers who are the enemies of the American people.
What do you mean “NOPE”?
You just spent SIX rambling paragraphs saying the exact same thing I said in one (who do YOU think the “THEY” I was referring to is?)… Is it that difficult for you to admit that someone else might have a clue as to what is going on?… Anyway, bad as this might hurt your feeeelz, most of what you posted there actually made sense and is in agreement with my statement which you seem to oppose? Have we created a paradox?… Is the world going to be destroyed? Meh, probably not this week anyway…
OBTW: YOU SAID: “but it is truly the multinational corporations and Wall Street/Cayman financiers who are the enemies of the American people”….
They ARE a part of the “so-called” socialist/Marxist (actually they are more fascists) left wing liberals… Right now your multinational corporations are conspiring to prevent other states from passing election laws like the one Georgia just passed… Good news is they will all eventually wind up in a few “high tax” states like NY, NJ and CA. Yep that’ll show us…
Your comment is awaiting moderation
Really? What kicked off the alarm in THAT post, it’s all true, contains no curse words and NO disparagements toward ANYONE… Is there some rule about AGREEING with MINER? I promise it will most likely NEVER happen again…
Just like with traffic tickets(infractions), they fine you big and send you on your way. When traffic offenses were a misdemeanor, you could ask for the time.
If someone can’t pony up the money, he gets a bench warrant. This warrant may not be activated, but if for some reason they want to talk to you(or put you away for a few days/weeks) They just trot out the warrant. See how that works?
A friend took a felony(in Ca) for having a few AR handguns. They fined him 10k and let him go with a weekend time served.
Them that have to money can buy there way out of jail for a bogus beef – sounds wrong to me.
“They won’t mass-incarcerate. The game is to add as many people as possible to the list of “prohibited persons”.”
What I have been saying all along. It will be 5 minutes in front of a Leftist judge, with no prison time, or even probation. But you will be a prohibited person…
Agreed, the complete lack of support by RINO’s has painted them in Blaze Orange as the cause of our lack of progress. We truly do have a war on – and it’s NOT Republicans vs Democrats, it’s Good vs Evil. If the recent choices of new Administration officials haven’t made it more clear, their agenda certainly has.
To those who won’t admit or even see it, I will suggest that every conflict has both clueless bystanders and overtly disingenuous agents who both contribute to a lack of progress in regaining our rights lost in the last 75 years. The 1934 NFA was originally an Anti Handgun Bill watered down by some pushback in Congress, but obviously not enough. That is how long the problem has existed – it’s not new – it’s been going on a long time.
It’s Republicans who do little to reverse the anti gun agenda while posturing as pro Gun who are the most dangerous.
You want anti-gun voters to wake up to the nightmare that is the NFA? Start actually arresting and prosecuting people who saw off the barrel of their AR and post it to YouTube as virtue signaling.
Ressbell Palala, shoots sawed off shotgunm in America, posted it on you tube, then moved to brazil
Here’s a short educational video explaining the ATF flowchart for Firearm Classification:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvJyoxxvQNY
This is a joke right?
We all know the ATF can’t read, let alone establish a PowerPoint presentation.
I don’t know, but by golly from now on I’m calling the trigger the “Death Toggle” ,, whoop whoop
“Video unavailable
This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Firearms Unknown.”
Can someone please post a working link to this ATF video (or “AFT” as Joe Biden would call it)?
Thanks
I am maybe more optimistic than I should be right now. Biden is l8mited by the 2nd Amdt, NFA, ADA (Disabilities), APA (Admin Procedures), CFR, etc, about what he can do here with EOs, etc. EOs are controlled by regulations, which are controlled by statutes, which are controlled by the Constitution.
The recent 6th Circuit decision on bump stocks is interesting, in explaining why the ATF shouldn’t be given Chevron deference in interpreting the NFA. IT is going to be very interesting how the Biden Administration overcomes to in the Supreme Court (and that argument is very likely going to end up there regardless). They refused to defer to agency expertise first because it involved a fundamental (enumerated) right, subject to Strict Scrutiny, and secondly, because the NFA is a criminal statute.
EOs are essentially limited to the operation of the government, and don’t generally limit rights of the People, except possibly by expanding them. They cannot really make something a crime that wasn’t one – only Congress can do so with a statute (with some exceptions).
One of the interesting issues that will ultimately have to be addressed, before they can really address 80% complete “Ghost Guns”, is that the ATF has arbitrarily determined that the lower receiver of an AR-15 is the legal firearm, that has to have a serial number. But legally, it probably isn’t. Rather, under the NFA, it is probably the combination of the upper and lower receivers. Not an issue when buying a complete firearm, but AR-15s are, as we all know, highly modular. It can be argued that the NFA requires the lower and upper of an AR-15 to be bolted together with its two pins to be a firearm. And that lower receivers need not be serialized if sold separately, etc.
The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) too hasn’t been fully exercised in regards to ATF regulations and rules. I find that a genetic tremor, that gets worse with age, is affecting my shooting. Recently, I moved from Isosceles to Weaver because of that tremor (tremor is primarily on my weak side, which Weaver mitigates with dominant foot back). I have moved to an AR-15 pistol for home defense – with a brace. A brace, stock, or vertical foregrip for one of my handguns might be even better, esp with the problem of unexpended powder in short barreled AR-15s shot indoors.
“The ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) too hasn’t been fully exercised in regards to ATF regulations and rules.”
That’s *exactly* how we will attack brace bans, and get them thrown out.
It will be the sweetest nectar of all using a Leftist scum law against them, and *winning*… 🙂
Well probably work for people with disabilities, but that’s not going to allow everyone to park in the Handicapped Zone.
Exactly, now we are using our head for something besides a handy hat rack.
“Essential tremor is a nervous system (neurological) disorder that causes involuntary and rhythmic shaking. It can affect almost any part of your body, but the trembling occurs most often in your hands — especially when you do simple tasks, such as drinking from a glass or tying shoelaces.
Essential tremor is usually not a dangerous condition, but it typically worsens over time and can be severe in some people. Other conditions don’t cause essential tremor, although essential tremor is sometimes confused with Parkinson’s disease.
Essential tremor can occur at any age but is most common in people age 40 and older.”
There are over 200,000 diagnosed cases of essential tremor every year in the US, it is estimated that the actual number of those who suffer this condition to some degree is much higher.
Chevron deference was given because the supposed experts at the various agencies knew better than the judges how technical things should be interpreted. Even if you agree with that logic, nobody thinks Trump or Biden are particularly knowledgeable about the subjects they are telling their bureaucrats to regulate.
Exactly what is the problem with pistol braces? One of the fraudulent arguments to support a ban on so called “assault weapons” is that they are inherently inaccurate and designed with a pistol grip to be fired from the hip to just spray and pray. Now they want to ban pistol braces because they make handguns more accurate?
Of course most people who pick up most of the pistols with braces that are out there will find themselves putting the brace to their shoulder and firing it like a short barreled rifle. I’m uncertain about why the gun grabbers think that this is a problem. The cast majority of gun homicides (about 95%) are committed with handguns.
Yup dumb.
Biden said it himself, the shoulder stock makes the firearmn more accurate. That’s why he’s banning them.
With that logic firegunms shouldn’t have an aiming device.
If somebody wants to tie their name to the philosophy of mass incarceration, they’re free to do so.
You mean like the Beijing Biden “Crime Bill” aka The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994… Worked out okay for the Creepy “Big Guy”… Even if HE is not aware of it…
Just one minute contribution to the phenomena described in the book titled Three Felonies a Day. The goal of the totalitarian state is for everyone – every last individual – to be provably guilty of some serious offense. And, know that this is true. It’s only a matter of time before you too get caught.
Thereupon, you live in a constant condition of terror. When will THE Party finger me?
It’s not important whether you really did commit the crime of which you will eventually be accused. You might be selected entirely at random for indictment.
If your loyalty to THE Party is strong enough you might be given a pass, this time. Depends on who is in power and how you fit into the hierarchy of the powers-that-be. If you stay out of politics then you can make no appeal based on your Party loyalty.
Most of the gun-control laws serve this purpose.
How about a contstant state of preparing, perservering, and prevailing? I’m Colion an this one. I will not comply.
Why don’t we all get together and send a clear message to Washington, DC that we are united and will not comply with any of their unconstitutional laws and we are prepared to back each other up. An attack on any one of us will be considered an attack on all of us and we will respond accordingly.
If we could get 10 million to sign-on, DC would just give up.
If we could get 10 million to sign-on, DC would just give up.
You REALLY want to put YOUR name on a list threating “insurrection” against the Fed Govt…
Reply is for Maddmaxx
Well 56 people did it once before. They signed their name to a piece of parchment “threatening insurrection” in this country. Last I checked it worked out pretty well for them 🇺🇸
well 56 people did it once before. They signed their name to a piece of parchment “threatening insurrection” in this country. Last I checked it worked out pretty well for them
Those 56 people were not in two or three dozen data bases where their ENTIRE history could be located by clicking a mouse and typing in a few letters… Where you live, work, play, what you eat, where your kids go to school, where and with whom they hang out, how much you make, bank accounts, any contacts with law enforcement, if and how you vote, everything they need to make your life a living breathing shitstorm… And our bad guys are not 4200 miles and 6 to 12 weeks away across the Atlantic… If you want to call even more attention to yourself you are free to do so (God Bless America and those personal freedoms of choice), I prefer to keep my head down til the shooting starts… THEN they will know my name good bad or otherwise…
Where do I sign?
Exactly,
Make enough laws so that everyone is guilty, then you can pick and choose who you lock up or fine at will.
The time is close, when everyone starts to realize there’s far too many laws and law makers and not enough people actually looking out for their best interest.
Just like “Planned obsolescence”, GM doesn’t use corrosion protection on specific parts, knowing it will fail in 10 years.
Congress works hard at making laws that use the rule of law to achieve things instead of seeking ways to solve problems.
Instead of repairing a bridge, we’ll make it illegal to drive on it.
Their template is described by Alexander Solzhenitsyn in The Gulag Archipelago.
Ah yes, I believe Stalin said it best, “show me the man and I’ll show you the crime. “
Despite the popular hope that mass incarcerations of gun owners is not possible, every proclaimed Dim, or Leftist, would support jailing every ‘deplorable”, regardless of reason. “Show me the man, and I’ll find the crime.” lives happily in their heads.
mass incarcerations of gun owners is not possible,
Hoping you are right, but reality gets in the way… Ultimately there is only a very small group of gun owners who will “violently” resist any attempts at confiscation/buyback, national registration or whatever they come up with… Most will resist to a point, but when it comes down to “comply or go to jail” the majority will cave… Just hope there are enough left who are willing to shed blood and perhaps give their lives to stand for their rights (and be labeled a terrorist, an insurrectionist, a criminal) and yes those labels WILL be believed and THEY will rejoice in our demise… Until it becomes clear just whom the REAL threat is, but by then it will be too late…
Just have to point out the hilarity as things become smaller and less effective….they get more dangerous?
M1 Garand – 8mm mauser – WWII – real rifle rounds – hundreds and hundreds of yards effectiveness
Ar-AK – mid range rounds – a few hundred yards effective range
Short AR-AK – mid range rounds with even less power due to velocity loss from shorter barrel 200 yards..maybe
BuT ThE DaNgErOuS ASSault WeApOnS.
The stupid is strong.
The entire NFA is unconstitutional.
Machine gun bans are unconstitutional.
Really, think about it. You have to register your XYZ before 1988 or you can’t own one.
Well, for all you guys born 1989-2021, guess you guys can just pound sand!
SCOTUS needs new blood, younger blood, not piles of dust and sand from the early 1800’s who believe rock and roll music is the devil and horseless carriages are a fad.
Actually, it’s 1986, and the gun had to have been registered before May 19. Someone born after 1986 can still buy one of the 144k machine guns that were registered back then if you’re willing to pay the somewhere between a decent used car to a luxury vehicle. That’s not to say it isn’t unconstitutional. The Miller decision says that arms that are militarily useful to a common infantryman are protected by 2A, and almost all armies issue machine guns to their common troops. They deserve the highest level of 2A protection.
As for laws based on birth year, some church members are exempt from social security taxes if they are religiously opposed, provide support for their members, and were established prior to September 30, 1980. While you could join one of those churches, you couldn’t have a schism and start your own
Why don’t we all get together and send a clear message to Washington, DC that we are united and will not comply with any of their unconstitutional laws and we are prepared to back each other up. An attack on any one of us will be considered an attack on all of us and we will respond accordingly.
If we could get 10 million to sign-on, DC would just give up.
“If we could get 10 million to sign-on, DC would just give up.”
Attractive idea.
However…..
There are an alleged 100million+ gun owners, and DC never seems intimidated.
Because those gun owners are incapable of getting together to do anything at the same time.
At least, they’ve been that way so far… The Jan. 6 omg iNsurRecTiOn seems to have scared the crap out of them — they’re still hunkered down behind barricades with federal troops pointing guns out at the vastness of America — and guns/gun owners weren’t even the cause du jour.
Signing a list of names won’t do it, though. Talk is cheap. If 2020 proved anything, it’s that mob intimidation gets results. Great big crowds all across the country could do the trick, but I don’t think gun people care enough.
“Great big crowds all across the country could do the trick, but I don’t think gun people care enough.”
It’s a bit more nuanced than that.
Gun people are the same people that hold, and show up for, jobs… 😉
Gun people have guns for defensive purposes – if to police won’t come.
We know that shooting someone will get us in trouble, even if we are in the right, so we make damn sure of a threat.
Gun people have more to lose that the street rabble that rioted and looted last summer.
Be warned that we can use these firearms if we feel the need is great enough.
The barricades and barbed wire in DC are political theater to keep the snowflakes afraid of normals.
One would think that without public mass protests, the idea that 100million gun owners might vote against Dims would be enough intimidation. If we could field 10million protesters around the country, the ruling class would just remind themselves that 90million gun owners will still vote for free stuff.
Back in the 1770s, a rich farmer and his buddies riled up enough people to rise up and defeat the world’s greatest power.
He didn’t need to do it, but he did have the conviction of his beliefs and was a moral man.
Today, the rich are the LAST people to lead any kind of revolution. Why should they? They have no conviction, no morals and own everything they want.
Let’s face it, “we are screwed, glued and tattooed”, as we used to say in my day.
We don’t even have enough convictions to bite the bullet and refuse to buy anything from these immoral thieves running our country into the ground.
By purchasing anything at all from any of then, we are boldly signaling to them that we’re all talk and no action, and don’t have the courage of our own convictions.
I used to think otherwise, but I have seen the light and it’s searing my eyeballs…
I bought a bag of kitty litter made in China, now I’ve got these tiny almost microscopic little fly things in my house. They’re really hard to see they’re so little. I know they came from that bag of kitty litter, had to be that, never had them before.
What’s that got to do with gunms? .9mm is overbore for these. Where can I purchase a .2mm.
“Only the federal government could dream up something to promote gun safety, like a ban on pistol braces which only serve to make pistols more accurate and improve your ability to hit what you are shooting at, as opposed to not having one and being more likely to miss your target and to hit something you weren’t intending to.”
How can anyone not understand? If you are capable of more accurate firing, you will kill more people. An unstable firearm means you will miss a whole big bunch more than you will hit. The misses will go wild, where no one will be hurt. Besides, if the gun is unstable, it just might hop out of your hand, limiting even more the number of people that can be killed. Inaccurately fired bullets save lives. A whole big bunch of inaccurately fired bullets saves a whole big bunch of lives. The only firearms that should be in the hands of people are the “Saturday Night Specials” that break when fired (and maybe hurt the shooter). We put humanoids on the Moon; we can do anything.
If it saves just one child’s life.
Many of those so called “Saturday Night Specials” are 50 -100 years old and still work just fine. A new spring kit is all they need.
“Where can I purchase a .2mm.”
Where did you get a gun that can handle .2mm?
cant we get out of the “pistol” brace “ban”
-at least temporarily-
by turning all the “pistols” into “firearms” by making them longer than 26 inches
Don’t long guns have to have a certain barrel length?
Whether you like Pistol Braces and use them or you don’t, doesnt matter. The point is that an agency of the Executive branch of our government, is arbitrarily, capriciously and Unconstitutionally changing definitions, and in doing so, criminalizing components in common use by a segment of the population.
Senõr Sundowner’s lie that “since they’re concealable, they’re more accurate and deadly.” Which is an outright LIE. Even in its shortest configuration, AR pistols aren’t easily concealed. No SBR’s are “easily concealed”. The 5.56 X 45 SBR or Pistol has considerably less muzzle velocity and stability than a standard length AR. Due to the shorter sight radius, it is less accurate, especially in the hands of a novice.
No, just like Bump Stocks, we’ve had one instance in which these devices and configurations were used by a psycho in a mass slaying. Is “One” instance of use really the justification for criminalizing the device or the configuration? Not in my mind and here’s why. Would not having the device or configuration have prevented the use? Not in the slightest way would it have prevented the atrocities. The psycho shooters were determined to kill as many as they could regardless of what they were armed with. The Vegas shooter would have used a bolt action rifle if that was all that was available to him. The Boulder shooter would have used a conventional pistol or carbine had that been all that was available to him.
Focusing on what these individuals use to commit their crimes, is illogical and intellectually dishonest. It also does nothing to prevent the crimes from happening, because just like people who intend to end their life, they’ll just find another way to fulfill their sick objective.
B.B. too bad the general public can’t read and understand what you just posted,You’ve made good and clear points. thank you
“Which is an outright LIE. Even in its shortest configuration, AR pistols aren’t easily concealed. ”
Depends on your frame of reference regarding “concealable”.
It is understandable that the mast majority of people in the country think of bad guys with long coats hiding machine guns, or movies and TV showing protection agents, or terrorists, pulling “little bitty” sub-machine guns out from under a sports or suit coat. For POTG, “concealable” means carrying a firearm in everyday clothing without anyone seeing any evidence of a firearm.
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