No one wants to have to defend themselves or their family with a gun. At the same time, as gun owners, we’re prepared to do that if circumstances demand it. For many of us, it’s the reason we own a gun in the first place.
But you don’t want to survive a deadly confrontation with a criminal only to get shot by a responding police officer. If you’re involved in a defensive gun use (DGU), you need to call the police as soon as possible.
Aside from that, there are a number of things a good guy with a gun can do in the immediate aftermath of a defensive gun use to minimize the risk of getting shot by mistake.
You have to put yourself in the position of the responding cop, rolling up on a scene, possibly with one person down, and another with a firearm. Police officers aren’t super-human warriors with ultra-keen senses and infallible judgement. More likely, that guy or gal you saw gnawing on those doughnuts at the convenience store will be the person(s) responding to your emergency call.
And just like the people on scene, they will be dealing with a surge of adrenaline when they respond to your call.
Even in force-on-force training, where the pucker factor is elevated, but still far below a real-life call, mistakes happen when people are on edge. “Blue-on-blue” shootings happen as adrenaline-charged role-players get startled by others and fire before they can process what they see.
And accidental shootings happen in real life too. Like the homeowner in Denver who just survived a deadly confrontation with an intruder only to be killed by responding police.
Or the SWATting victim in Wichita.
How do you increase your chances of surviving after a defensive gun use? Follow these steps to help maximize your survivability when other adrenaline-charged, armed good guys show up on scene.
Holster your gun as soon as possible
Standing around holding a gun makes you a prime suspect in the eyes of police responding to a shots fired call. Or to bystanders. Once the scene stabilizes and the threat ends, holster your gun. If that’s difficult, put it on the ground. Not only do you have to worry about responding police officers, but in public settings, fellow concealed carry license holders as well.
Heaven forbid you should find yourself in an active shooter incident. While you may have stopped tomorrow’s Aurora (Illinois or Colorado) spree killer, every cop from every jurisdiction aside from Broward County will attempt to bend the laws of physics to respond and engage faster than humanly possible.
Their mission: to “put down” the bad person killing innocents. If you just shot troubled loser (or your return fire caused him or her to retreat and self-terminate), you don’t want to have a gun in hand when hyper-excited law enforcement officers arrive ready to put down ‘the person with the gun’.
Do exactly what the officers tell you to do
Do as ordered. When responding officers are trying to secure and stabilize the scene, that’s not the time for debate or negotiation. Especially as it could delay medical teams from treating injured innocents.
If the officers tell you to lay face down in the dirt, snow or in a puddle, do it. You can clean up later. Non-compliance with police directions raises tension and stress levels. It’s in your best interest to avoid that wherever possible.
Do not reach for anything
Keep your hands where the officer(s) can see them. Nothing in your pocket is worth your life at that moment. If they ask for an ID, tell them it’s in your pocket and ask for permission to — slowly — retrieve it.
Don’t move until you’re told to move
Even if one or more officers are shouting commands at you, do not begin to follow those commands until you’re told to move. Basically any movement could endanger you from officers who might not, in a moment of great tension, be exhibiting good trigger finger discipline. If you startle them, they may flinch and that may cause a round to discharge. Into you.
Yes, while they should have good training and discipline, you have to plan for the worst case scenario. Paul Blart, the former mall cop, may have his fat little finger on his GLOCK’s bang switch. Don’t give him a reason to twitch.
Keep your hands in the air
Remind yourself, “Hands up! Don’t shoot!” It’s not just a silly slogan. It can save your life. Everyone will feel better if you have your hands in the air, palms open for all to see.
Move very slowly
Once you have clear instructions on how to comply, move slowly and deliberately. Do not make any sudden moves, even if your pants fall down.
Don’t try to catch them or you could end up like the man trying to comply with conflicting police commands in Mesa, Arizona. One excitable cop thought he might be reaching for a weapon. That cop fired repeatedly with an AR-15, killing the man DRT.
In short, holster your gun, do as they ask, move slowly and don’t surprise responding officers.
Follow these basic steps and you will minimize the risk of unintended gunshot wounds from the good guys in the aftermath of a DGU. Because you want to get home to your loved ones at the end of the day too.
Dont even have to read the article. Dont want to get shot. Holster your gun.!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or if noone else is around. Not a great idea but. Place it empty on a table several steps away from where you are. Dont have it in your hand!!!!!!!! Been there been dumb enough to not think.
Don’t want to get shot? Simple. Don’t be Black.
Like your cover picture. Your best chance to avoid being shot is to be a young blond blue-eyed scantily clad woman. Never heard of one of those get’n shot.
Minneapolis, MN, July 2017?
Justine Ruszczyk
Former cop’s trial starts this week.
They only jumped on him because he was black. There was a white cop that got away with killing a 7yo girl when they busted into the wrong house in detroit.
@ Van, they” jumped on him because he was black”? WTF are you talking about where is your evidence?
And per gun crime committed, per murder committed, blacks are shot by cops less than whites. The data cleary show this.
As far as the case you mention in Detroit it was NOT the wrong house. The the 7 year old’s father — a suspect in a gun murder known to be armed — WAS IN THAT HOUSE. The warrant was to capture him and that is where he was.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/man-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-for-detroit-teens-death
Harboring an illegally armed violent criminal in your home puts everyone in danger.
And that cop was acquitted by a virtually all black jury, in a trial presided over by a black judge.
Here’s her pic –
http://www.startribune.com/complete-coverage-of-justine-ruszczyk-damond-s-shooting/435415123/
And the cop was a political hire. First Somali refugee cop. Clearly a bad hire.
Forward Assist got it wrong. Stop spreading propaganda.
Don’t want to get shot? Be smart, know the law, follow police directions.
“Don’t want to get shot? Simple. Don’t be Black.”
Blacks are shot less per violent crime committed than whites are, and black males are shot less per violent felony committed than ANY other demographic cohort.
Black males between the ages of 15-55 constitute 6% of the US population and commit 51% of all US murder. They are not even close to 51% of people shot by cops, but about 22%.
#violentcrimecommissionratesmatter
That’s not the ONLY key, but it sure does seem to help.
A woman like you’re describing was killed by a Somali immigrant who was a police officer.
Okay, Al Sharpton, whatever you say 🙄
Actually, you could do just as well being a young, scantily clad, brown-eyed black woman, too. The key to not getting shot by the police is not being a gangsta ass thug. Quit holding up thugs as representative of all black men. That’s racist! Black men as a group have nothing to fear from the police as a group. It all comes down to individuals and the choices they make. People obsess over shootings of black thugs and make these criminals into poster boys of police brutality, yet they conveniently ignore that the leading category of homicide of blacks is other blacks. Just keep the propaganda and scapegoat machine running and keep on ignoring the rot within the black community.
So what you’re saying is “Just Be intelligent” and don’t do Stupid Sh*t!!!
I’ve not been in that situation and hope to God to never be. If I am, though, I would be tempted to put the gun on the ground several feet away and lie on the ground on my stomach, spread-eagle, and wait for the police. That way there is minimal chance for a misunderstanding, miscommunication, or misinterpreted movement – all of which could be deadly. They can handcuff me and we can sort it out later when the adrenaline isn’t pumping.
Don’t forget to handcuff yourself, beat yourself up, and have a signed confession ready. Saves the cops lots of time.
Southern Cross Also shoot your own dog.
It was funny…
These are tactics right out of the Israeli military playbook.
We are all Palestinians, now…
As for the shooting in Mesa Arizona, the cops should have been convicted of murder.
So I take that in addition to your carry gun you walk around wearing a suicide vest.
Remember, folks, anarchyst is a holocaust denier. I’m betting he hates cops cause they interfer with his entertainment. Like spray painting swastikas on temples.
Mesa: Concur. Bad shoot all the way. Maybe not murder, but certainly something.
Then why don’t YOU become a police officer and show us all how it SHOULD be done? Put up or shut up.
The Mesa shooting was a bad shoot man, regardless of who you might think you are. I recently did training with an LEO class where the video was presented as a “what not to do”. Every LEO in that class was pretty disturbed by that video.
The idiot cop who “murdered” the civilian should have NEVER passed the screening process or been issued a firearm; his superiors and administrators are also complicit in the “murder” in that they facilitated his attaining a LEO position without passing responsible training protocols.
Because idiots like this and power-hungry cops who abuse the privileges of their profession comprise too much of the staff at far too many law enforcement agencies, calling the cops will be the last damn thing I do if I’m ever threatened by criminal low-lifes. I trust the average cop only a bit more than the hoodlums with whom they’re forced to comport and definitely not in a stressful situation in which my life or my family’s is at risk.
Besides, living 20 minutes from the nearest cop station, halfway across the county, we’d be dead before any cop ever arrived. So, again, trusting cops to help is NOT a practical option for me.
What a stellar and logical argument; if I am not a cop or don’t become one, I can’t make a call you don’t agree with. Or is it if I am not a cop or don’t want to become one, the shoot was good. Or is it if I am not a cop or don’t become one, I don’t have the skill or knowledge to make a judgement. Whatever, I’m not a cop, won’t become one, and it was a bad shoot.
Then why don’t YOU become a police officer and show us all how it SHOULD be done? Put up or shut up.
Moron, that mesa cop was NOT following procedure.
One doesn’t need to become a police officer to realize the Mesa shoot was horribly wrong. You just need to be human.
I don’t need to be a pilot to know a helicopter being stuck in a tree is a bad thing. So please stop. The Mesa OIS was how not to challenge an individual. It’s possible to support LE and be critical of them at the same time.
Is that the rule? Unless somebody personally does something, then they forfeit all right to speak about it? What does one having the personal ability to do something have to do with judging something by the facts of the case and the relevant legal standards? That’s just YOU trying to shut down opposing voices and Mau-Mauing people into self-censorship. Are you a cop? Ex-cop? You shouldn’t be anywhere near a gun or a badge. You cannot be trusted with power of any kind. You’re a statist, sadist monster.
And don’t forget troll – he’s definitely a troll… Been posting this same cut-n-paste shit for several months now, drive-by style, then never comes back to defend his comments. Stirring the pot, then ducking out when shit starts to fly… isn’t that the textbook definition of a troll?
But I also like the term others have used… twatwaffle!
I would have shot too, and I do not fault the officers for defending their lives. IN SPITE of clear instructions NOT to reach behind him, he suddenly did. In one-half of a second he could have pulled a gun and shot an officer DEAD! The cops could never take that risk—they can never assume that that shot would miss. There is no replay; you don’t get another quarter. The officers were there to find a man with a gun; suddenly the suspect deliberately acts like he is pulling one. What is not clear about this?
Did this video not show the entire incident? Because if you saw the whole thing and somehow thought that was okay…wow.
“…IN SPITE of clear instructions NOT to reach behind him, he suddenly did. In one-half of a second he could have pulled a gun and shot an officer DEAD!”
Dude, seriously? Before Daniel Shaver was murdered, the cops had him do a 360 degree spin. He was only wearing drooping basketball shorts with no belt on; there was no way he could have been armed unless he literally had a gun stuffed up his posterior.
Fuck you jew-hating piece of shit.
“These are tactics right out of the Israeli military playbook.
We are all Palestinians, now…
Go take a look at a map of the Arab lands and compare the amount of land the Arabs have compared to the Israelis. The fact is there is an attempt to exterminate Israel.
Also I’ve been to the middle east and Israel is certainly a safer place to be an Arab than Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, or Egypt. Israel has to deal with a LOT of shit, a lot of hyper violent terrorists.
Good advice!
Read it, digest it, commit it to memory and do a practical run-through following the six steps in the privacy of your home.
Pretty good advice. Except for variation in language pretty much what I used to tell my CCW students. Only thing I have to disagree with is the author’s perpetuation of stereotypes. I don’t care for sweets so I didn’t eat doughnuts while working. Still don’t.
Could have been worse. You could work in Broward County!
It did miss one important point I got from my CCW instructor: once the shooting has stopped and the threat is over you are under no legal obligation to stay in the immediate vicinity.
Holster your pistol and move to a secure location while phoning 911 and informing them of what happened and why and where you may be located by responding officers, including what you look like and what you are wearing.
If reasonable and safe, do not have your weapon on your person or loaded when the police arrive at your location. Place it where they can see it and the magazine and point it out when they show up, then comply completely with all commands and SHUT THE FUCK UP.
We should talk about what to do if you cannot hear police commands (you could be experiencing hearing loss from your own gunshots) or if you receive conflicting police commands such as one officer saying “Don’t move!” and another officer saying “Get down on your knees!”.
I believe the two most important actions before police arrive are:
(1) Do not have ANYTHING in hand. No guns, no cell phones.
(2) Keep your hands in the air near your head until police go hands on with you.
These two simple actions will most likely save your life.
Which is what I meant by I didn’t think. So many cops yelling at the same time.
You become a blank. You don’t know who, where or when to move anything.
Worse yet who or what to listen too.
In my case I was the one holding the gun on the bad guy.
Thankfully one of the deputies who knew me. Got my attention.
But when 3 guys are all yelling at the same time.
Adrenaline makes one act weird.
First and foremost, secure your weapon…
Other than identifying yourself, requesting an attorney, say nothing else…
“Other than identifying yourself, requesting an attorney, say nothing else…”
Wiser would be to identify yourself, and state that you were attacked and defended yourself, and would like to sign a complaint after you have spoken to your lawyer…
Remember, ANYTHING said can be used as evidence, you don’t have to be mirandized…request an attorney, and say nothing else, that’s what attorney’s are for, they speak for you…
Also– demand that your attacker be arrested, even if you shot him dead. Just to get it on the record.
“Do exactly what the officers tell you to do. Do as ordered.”
And when one cop says “Freeze!”, and another cop at the scene says “Face down, on the ground NOW!”, you do what, exactly?
Get shot
Clutch your chest and take this approach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stdi-1tIUhM
Uncommon, you’re right. If you get conflicting commands, and I’ve been there, done not move and keep your hands in plain sight. It may take a minute, but when things calm down you should get clear commands from one officer.
Or in the case of the Witchita man you get a bullet……..
Call 911 before the bad guy.
Or his friends. Whoever calls the law wins.
Your right in alot of ways on that A man shot my beloved hunting dog because only the dog was brown.He had a bulldog attack a goat on not even his property and he didnt see my dog do it my dog is not even a bull/pt bull type dog and if he would have the dog would not have waited two years to attack it. The goat was found floating in the pond and he asummed my dog did it and called the police on me. and when i called to report what happened the police hung up on me…so the first 911 caller is often times asumed to be the victim.. I talked to alot of goat raisers and they all said your dog would have killed that goat immediately not wait for 2 plus yrs. and they have the goat guard dog’s and know what they are talking about..Jack
Geoff, I’ve heard this before and can find no fault with it up to a point. After the scene is secure if you said, “Officer he tried to kill, attack, rob me, etc.” You’re good. Refrain from saying anything about what you did. Let L.E. draw their on conclusions about what happened until you speak to an attorney. And get used to the idea that you might have to spend a night in jail.
During force protection training we were told that Seal Team 6 show up to rescue you get on the floor and don’t move. Anybody above ground level can expect a couple of rounds in the head. We were all advised to prepared to treated very rudely until they got things sorted out. Same thing may apply to your dgu.
Keep in mind that even if you are the one who called the police, no matter how much information you gave the dispatcher, NONE of that information reached any of the officers responding to the scene. ALL they know is that they are responding to either a “Shots Fired” or a Man-With-A-Gun call
They have exactly the same goal as you did at the start of your DGU… They want to go home alive and unhurt.
The only difference is that as a civilian you may be reluctant to shoot knowing that your actions will be dissected by lawyers, whereas the police have no such reluctance because they expect that the law and their union (which is even more powerful) both say they can do no wrong.
So police unions are more powerful than the law? On what planet? News flash: the police and their unions don’t want to protect bad behavior. What they do insist upon is every officer is afforded his Constitutional rights, which, by the way, don’t disappear when you pin on a badge.
On this planet in major american cities the Union makes sure the cops get attorney coverage, make statements days later when they wish, get paid time off, and receive grief counseling.
What!? The 14 that reaches the officer depends on the communication officer. I’ve had some that were great. Others that were as stupid as a hot soup sandwich. The good ones gave me descriptions of parties involved, to include race, sex, approx age, clothing, weapons, etc. Others gathered almost no information. The side of that is the caller. “This is 911. What is you’re emergency?” “There’s been a man shot at the mall!” Click. What am I supposed to do with that? I’m going in blind.
From the citizens point of view I suggest we treat any situation where we have fired shots and the police are responding as a case of poor to no communication between the officers and dispatch.
If we assume that the cops are responding blind our chances of making the right choices and surviving the encounter go way up.
While it’s false that none of that information reaches the officer- often it does- it is not unreasonable to ASSUME that it has not and play it safe accordingly.
The shooting in Denver was inexcusable.
Bottom line cops are too quick to shoot. It won’t stop until they shoot enough cops which seems to be increasing. Or until the are held accountable in the courts.
Remember the health care worker in the street on his back with his arm up and hands open? Shot him and cuffed him. Even worst the cop said he was aiming for the kid with autism sitting in the street playing with the truck.
You just had the swating story. That guy did nothing wrong. The jackass cop who shot the guy who was crawling as ordered. Video above.
I don’t worship the badge. Talk about stolen honour, always taking what’s the military’s. You NEVER here the military say we go home every night. Don’t call me civilian, civilian.
Too many act like thugs with badges.
Then why don’t YOU become a police officer and show us all how it SHOULD be done? Put up or shut up.
Just keep shooting each other.
Just recently the cell phone store robbery. Only ones shooting were cops. Shot two of their own killing one of there own.
The shooting in Aurora (Denver suburb) was inexcusable. The cops shot first and asked question later. They never gave him a chance to comply and they gave him conflicting commands. That guy was a hero both in Vietnam and in saving his family. Police should not take innocent lives in enforcing the law. To many police today are taught to shoot and take care of the problem so they can “get home to their families.”
Every time you shoot the family dog, every time you shoot an innocent person, every time you use excessive force, every time you abuse someone in custody, every time you thug someone in a traffic stop, every time you pull unconstitutional shenanigans like after the Boston bombing and you force people from their homes at gun point you lose public support.
That crap in Boston made you look the NAZIS. The militarization of police is outrageous.
40 years ago we had Peace Officers I greatly respected, not so much today.
Another one with “why don’t YOU be a cop and show us how it’s done”
1. Individual cops don’t show the rest how anything should be done. It’s the other way around.
2. Why do we have to become cops to address bad actions?
3. We have the right to defend ourselves against bad actors and further rights not to be killed by the authorities. It’s on them to get it right because they have the power.
4. I’m not taking the pay cut.
DJ, hardly know where to begin. Military and L.E. have two different jobs. I know. I did both. Trust me, an infantryman wants to go home at the end of the patrol too. Think shooting more cops will make them less likely to shoot you? Yeah, and setting more fires will make firefighters quit wasting water. Got to agree with Clark. You think you can do it better? Pin on a badge, strap on a duty belt, get in one of those cars with the funny paint job and the flashly lights on top. Don’t forget the part about rolling around on the pavement with a felon half your age while your backup is ten minutes away. Happens kind of regular.
You think you can do it better? Run for office, get elected, get elected by your party as Speaker of the House and stop complaining about Nancy Pelosi.
There is a subtle difference between having to make instantaneous life or death decisions and playing politics. I roll my eyes when people pretend like someone (a police officer but also any citizen in such a scenario) should do X, Y and Z (perfectly) when they barely have time to figure out what’s going on.
That said, while I know that Pelosi’s policies and politics are wrongheaded and hurtful to the country, I KNOW I couldn’t do her job better- her job being fundraising and getting democrats elected.
@Gadsen Jesus, you’re still saying the same stupid shit. Haven’t you already embarrassed yourself enough?
Can’t say the truth too often. I think it’s more of a case of people not wanting to hear the truth. Maybe they know they couldn’t do the job, or are too scared to do it.
You’ve made absolutely asinine statements. You have not extolled or spoken the truth. Keep it up.
But, I guess, repeating the same lie often enough, it becomes your truth. Aloha
Different scenario: You’re didn’t shoot, but you’re holding a bad guy at gunpoint and let’s say he’s lying on the ground. I don’t want to get shot, but I’m not too thrilled about the bad guy getting up and attacking me. The police show up and I have a gun in my hand more than likely. Now what? I’m asking because I don’t know.
Now what? Just do exactly what you are told. No arguing, no hostility, no excuses. Obey now; live to complain later.
You missed the point. I’m likely to still have a gun in my hand when they show up. Of course, I’m going to do EXACTLY what they tell me.
Superman’s alter ego is long on wind but short on ideas.
I think Clark Kent is a VERY good name for him.
Gun in both hands, phone on speaker and sitting in your shirt breast pocket. (What, you don’t always wear shirts with breast pockets? You should). Tell 911 operator what you’re wearing and that you’re holding the bad guy at gunpoint.
Or you could put one in his ass to keep him still, then holster your firearm.
Either way works.
You may not like the answer but I would do a lot to avoid that scenario. No matter what you do, you might get shot if you are found holding someone at gunpoint. Why are you holding a bad guy at gun point? What is your goal? If you are defending yourself, once the bad guy has surrendered, your safest bet is to get out of there yourself. The gun you had was a tool to effect your own escape. Back up, get out. If you can’t do that, maybe tell him to run instead. If neither is feasible, describe yourself to 911, drop the gun as soon as you see uniforms, and hope.
What about other situations like an active shooter? In such a case I would not be giving the shooter commands and would instead be firing until he is **definitively** no longer a threat or I run out of ammunition, at which point I will back off and holster.
What I would definitely not do is try to hold some mugger and his two friends at gunpoint until the cops arrive if I had an opportunity to GTFO instead; thinking about it purely from a survival standpoint.
7. Never run from a fat cop!
This goes beyond shooting incidents. In any situation where a cop so much is keeping his hand on his gun, let alone pulling it, do what I trained my daughter.
1. OPEN YOUR HAND, FIVE FINGERS SPREAD WIDE, LET FALL ANYTHING YOU WERE CARRYING.
2. PALMS TOWARDS THE COP.
3. HANDS AT HEAD HIEGHT.
4. FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS.
Don’t care if the cop is yelling “Drop the gun!” and you have your cell phone, or a favorite sandwich. Don’t care if the cop is completely wrong. Just open your hands and do as described above, slow and easy! You can buy another phone or sandwich. For my kid, I’d buy it and said so!
Do not attempt to tell the cop “It’s a cell phone” or “It’s my lunch”. This is not a moment for argument, or correcting mistakes. This is a moment to survive or die.
Even if you are the good person or the wrongly picked on person, you are far safer in handcuffs and the cop’s gun in his or her holster than you are trying to explain things when that gun is in the cop’s hand. Do the talking part later, when you are out of danger.
Put the dog in the house and just hope you don’t end up.a statistic
GS650G, that’s funny! See Uncommon’s problem with three aggressive dogs last night? I guess you’re one of those animal lovers that will allow yourself to be mauled without taking any defensive measures. Then talk with the dog owner about the proper way to confine his animals as they gnaw on you and you await EMS.
It is not about cops shooting vicious dogs.
It is about cases where cops shot dogs that were not in any way a threat. Happens far too frequently.
They shoot housecats, too.
Maybe Tabby made a furtive movement.
” I guess you’re one of those animal lovers that will allow yourself to be mauled without taking any defensive measures. Then talk with the dog owner about the proper way to confine his animals as they gnaw on you and you await EMS.”
Try to work on reading what’s posted before going off on a Strawman attack. Search youtube for police raids where the dogs were shot in cages.
Won’t ever be a problem for me, I live by the 3 S’s!
If you are, or were, a cop are you suggesting you would shoot, shovel and shut up as policy?
Kindly don’t lecture us about ethics.
I’ve had cops’ guns pointed at my head twice, (lI wasn’t breaking the law either time, and the cops were just doing their jobs and being careful until they got everything sorted out.
I did *exactky* as I was ordered to, very slowly, and when in doubt I stood utterly still with my hands high in the air until the command was repeated.
I had armed myself (with a golf club) in my own vacation house when the burglar alarm went off. Why a golf club? It was California and I didn’t live there, so more effective armament wasn’t available.
As soon as I saw the flashing lights outside I ditched that sand wedge like it was radioactive. The police were very professional and very polite, all things considered. If I’d been holding a heater in my hand or made any fast moves, it all might have gone bakery differently.
#7, buy a shovel and learn how to use it.
There are few situations under which I would pull a gun on someone when conceal carrying, and most would quickly result in my shooting them (robber with a weapon, active shooter, etc). If not, and if not in my home, I would do my best to retreat while holding them at gunpoint until I was safe.
Holding someone at gunpoint as a conceal carrier is bad juju.
Couple of things of note I think should be considered beyond the article.
I changed out my phone case to a Snow White Otter Box some years ago. I figure my next of kin can argue about it in court afterwards. Dash Cams are important. The ones that Uber and Lyft use that cover front and back seat.
An interesting case in the 4th Circuit stated that even with a CCW one is considered Dangerous and loses some Constitutional protections. Armed and Dangerous was collapsed to ‘if armed, you are Dangerous’. The court basically stated that the police can snatch you up, put you on the ground, and placed in handcuffs even if no crime has been committed.
Here in South Carolina we have an obligation to inform upon police contact, just be aware that the 4th circuit covers several States including Virginia, West Virginia ect. I believe it’s US vs Robinson 2017, but don’t hold me to it.
The picture says it all: Don’t wanna get shot by the police” simple, be white.
False. Cops shoot more white guys than black. The shoot black guys in a greater proportion than their percentage of the population but then again the commit more crimes relative to their numbers as well.
And yet all three examples were of innocent white men being killed by the police.
Henry Louis Gates is lucky to be alive.
Gates was being a complete ass. blaming the cops was utterly dishonest of him
Henry Gates is lucky to be rich and enjoy many of the privileges of being rich, like having expensive lawyers and publicists that will get you a meeting with the President of the United States instead of a court date when you obstruct public administration through your intransigence.
He was also lucky to be black. Had he been some random white professor he would have probably gotten a fine, deferred docket and people laughing at his arrogance instead of charges dropped because the President went on national TV to bloviate when he had no clue what happened.
Don’t move. Put your hands up. Get on your knees. Show your ID. Do all of this at once for the 4 idiots shouting at you and hope none of them are on the autism spectrum (but considering police agencies have IQ maximums to get the job, you’re in trouble).
Good article and solid advice. I’ve been a LEO and so has my son, and I can tell you that cops these days fit into two broad categories . . . good cops who are scared and want to go home alive at the end of their shift, and bad cops who are just looking for a chance to use their authority and their gun on somebody. Fortunately, there are a lot more of the former than the latter, but neither are well trained and either will kill you in an instant if you make a wrong move.
The article has it right. Holster your gun and keep it out of sight unless they ask about it.
911 – 911 what is your emergency?
You – There is a man here who is having a hard time breathing.
911- Help is own the way.
See simple situation with deranged cops now neutralized
Now of course do NOT be standing there holding your weapon when the ambulance, fire department shows up before cop.
You have to parse good shootings (90% of shootings by cops) from problematic ones where the facts are not clear but cold be good shoots (9%), from outright bad ones (1%).
In some cases it is a bad shoot but not the cops fault. For example the case of the kid with the BB gun with the removed orange flag, in a park where the person calling 9/11 had said that he was pointing a gun a people and menacing people. But where the caller also explicitly said several times it may have been BB gun, and that part was never relayed to the responding cops by the 911 operator. The cops were white, and a big deal was made of that, but the one who really cased the bad shoot was the incompetent 911 operator who was African American woman
In my view one in 100 cops or so is bad just like any other 100 people But the rhetoric of the left against gun owners and anyone with a gun makes this number much higher in certain places.
My brother-in-law was stopped in Washington DC, where he is legal CCL holder. He turned the cars inside lights on and had his car licence, insurance, registration AND the gun carry licence and gun registration cards out and the windows open and his hands on top of the dash before the DC cop got to the window. She drew her gun as he informed her that he had a licence and had a firearm. he did everything he could before she arrived to make her feel safe and still had a gun pointed to his head. She then went on to ask him what he was doing with a gun, and did he think he was a cop by having one. so she had a bad, frankly nasty and dangerous attitude, directly opposing his civil rights and liberties and which she had no right to bring to the job.
I’ve been stopped twice while carrying and both times the cop has just said thank you for telling them and in one case asked my what my preferred carry was and chatted about concealed positions.
Do whatever you can to consider the cops’ point of view on their safety, even if it includes kowtowing and being polite in the face of the occasional/rare bully cop. If anything makes you angry save it for later.
A good reminder that cops are creatures of their culture. If you get a rural deputy in Virginia, he’s not going to blink at someone having a firearm. But NY? DC? Baltimore? If you somehow have a license in one of these states (I know it’s supposedly easier in DC now?) you do not want to deal with the police there, because many come from the culture that only the police and bad guys have guns.
And not to generalize TOO much but many of these departments hire a ton of cops and then watch them all transfer as soon as possible to better places.
A well intended topic by John with plenty of good advice.
But, a very provocative topic indeed and many different view points, as noted here.
No two situations, peoples are the same and no two officers are the same.
There are incidents where the officers are justified in unfortunate shootings and there is a growing trend of young X-Box cops, as I like to call them young fellas, that have zero communication skills and as medical science has proven over and over again, that the male brain isn’t finished developing until around the age of 30 and that specific area is the frontal lobes that control decision making, right and wrongs, morals and ethic’s sometimes as well. That’s why women protect themselves from us when we’re young, lol. How many times did you ask your son or have had your dad ask you the age old question of “Why? Why did you do it son?” And your only response was.. “I don’t know?” LMAO, we we’re morons, that’s why! Too many young men in their early twenties are well intended, well meaning individuals that have subconscious drivers in their underdeveloped brains. Doubt me? Pull up some YouTube video’s if you’ve never worked with them. FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN, what a thing? Or aggressive alpha males behaving like SS Nazi’s over complete BS. It’s a growing trend and I seen it growing a long time ago. I’m retired now, but I seen it coming in larger doses and trained hundreds of young men, some right out of the military and the transition is difficult for them and they simply don’t have the skills. I consistently referred them to work in stable prisons for a few years prior to getting a badge and gun and working with the public.
It should be mandatory for anyone under 25 years of age, imeo. WHY? Simple..
Ever worked in a prison or an underfunded unsafe prison or even a relatively safe medium to max prison? I’ve watched these young men break down and cry or simply turn in their radio’s, key’s and walk out the door, never to return. Again, why? I’ll tell you.
As a corrections officer, you cannot physically force your will, state policies and procedures, rules/etc upon someone that hates authority, your uniform or you personally or because they had a negative experience with an officer on the street or somewhere else and are projecting their anger onto you by yourself. It will not work.. Plus, your out numbered on average 300 to one and all you have on you are cuffs, a radio, a pen and pocket tablet for notes. Your not carrying a taser, a club or a gun inside a prison, because it would be promptly taken away from you by inmates and most likely used on you. What are you forced to do? Quit, stand around and collect a paycheck and let the inmates run the prison or attempt to grow some nad’s and do your job. If the facility is broken, then I would advise leaving. However, most prison’s are a tremendous place to learn and grow as a law enf man. Your greatest tool is between your ears and the ability to earn respect and that goes both ways. You have to remember that this society is a sperate society outside of normal life and it is very hard. You have to make difficult decisions that affect peoples lives, that are still human beings, (regardless) of the crimes they have committed, every day. They are part of your life now, not subjects that you can point a gun at and shoot if they challenge you in some fashion or disobey an order. You have to deal with people who are hostile, very manipulative and have every day to think of ways to screw with you or the system that they are angered at and some are totally compliant and just want to do their time. Others want to go down in the history books or make the evening news. Another officers leniency or lack of balls to do his job can be your demise and/or death/stabbing by a shank. Or you yourself or another inmate can be thrown into a cell, the door closed with flammable liquids on you and set ablaze. At almost any given time, something like this can happen and God help you should you ever be a part of a prison riot. One of the most violent things you will ever experience, like war. So, if you manage to grow? You will learn how to do your job, develop interpersonal communication skills, de-escalation skills, which is almost extinct in the badge and gun department, due to corrupt judicial money grabbing policies being implemented and executed. You will learn how con’s work and who you can handle and who you cannot. Your radio is your life line and your pen and paper files reports that go directly to your superiors that decide if they go to disciplinary court for inmate punishment. Be consistent, treat all people with respect whether they treat you with respect or not, because you are the one that is held to a higher standard in a position of authority over others to maintain security and custody at all times. Therefore, you must earn respect and give respect or you wont make it one way or the other. In short, I think that we would have a lot less trouble between law abiding citizens and officers on the streets, if they would develop some people skills and hold themselves to a higher standard and many do, but more and more are not and simply organically don’t have the skills yet nor can they develop them due to age. Plus, the average citizen does not know what their local law enf policy and procedures are or many people would never get voted in office. The projection of being tough on crime always seems to garner ignorant votes. When you have adrenaline and testosterone running through your blood and altering your brain function, it’s much easier to become abusive, pull a gun and or shoot someone when they challenge or even legally/lawfully and constitutionally defy you. When you hear yourself saying to someone that you’ve morally, physically or ethically violated or hurt, just because you can, saying to them. “Hey, I’m only doing my job.”
Stop right there and think to yourself. Does that make it right? Some cases it does due to the level of force continuum and others it most certainly does not.
Karma will let you know in good time.. This I know.
Agree, spot on.
thanks
Kudos.
A bit long-winded…but, well said!
My spouse is still waiting for my “adult” decision processes to kick in…(hint: I married her in ’78)..prolly not gonna happen any time soon.
Yes, holster your gun. The rest of the article is pretty much nullified by unclear police communications. Don’t begin to follow commands until told to move? What kind of command would involve not moving, aside from “stop” or some variant thereof? Move too slowly and you’re non-compliant.
Here’s the thing: we teach people how to survive criminal assault. We give tips on how to deal with encounters with wild bears and strange dogs. We don’t give lessons on how to survive meeting a grocery clerk or a mail carrier, because these are normal adults and we expect them to conform to standards of civilized behavior. To give advice on surviving police puts them on a footing with criminals and wild animals, and I think that’s demeaning.
The hotel hallway incident was particularly bad. The cop.got off on it IIRC.
No way he was going to hurt those cops. They had no fear for their safety. But they get to go home at night and that’s the mantra.
Was watching Cops and the cop driving the car reiterated that was his goal. I bet that is written over a doorway somewhere.
I wonder how they can feel threatened when they outnumber the suspect 18 to one, have fully automatic rifles, shotguns, and flocks with 18 round mags, and are yards away.
Of the three videos presented, only ONE involved a person with a gun. In both the swatting incident and the hotel hallway incident, the victims killed by incompetent and dangerous cops had NO weapons of any sort. ALL were bad shoots. And in all, the negligent cops got off scot-free.
This is just one reason respect for the police is at such a low.
It’s far simple than all the above. It’s called the 3 S
1. Don’t go to STUPID places with
2. STUPID people and
3. Do STUPID stuff.
Want to keep from getting shot when the cops arrive? Have your lawyer standing in front of you.
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