Things got a little western in Riverton, Wyoming, over the weekend when an “irrational” and much younger unexpected visitor began beating and kicking on 85-year-old Wayne Williams’s front door. Around 11 p.m. Friday night, Williams heard violent pounding and shouting at his front door so grabbed a .380 he keeps for home defense from his bedroom and went to see what the ruckus was about, he told the Cowboy State Sentinel.
Once at the door, he opened it, a move he later admitted to the paper probably wasn’t the smartest thing he could have done, because as soon as he did, the intruder, who Williams described as about 25 years old, six inches taller than him and appearing drunk or under the influence of drugs tried to shove his way into the home. Williams attempted to fight him off, first aiming and squeezing the trigger of his handgun only to hear a dull click. He realized then that “he’d forgotten to rack a round into the chamber,” a key reason most firearms instructors urge defensive-minded gun owners who carry or keep their guns safely stored in the home to always leave their primary self-defense gun loaded and ready to fire.
“You must realize that the most dangerous criminal attacks occur at very close range and happen very quickly. So quickly, in fact, that you simply might not have time to chamber that round and defend yourself,” writes Jim Wilson for NRA Family.
The intruder challenged the senior citizen to shoot him as the two began wrestling. Despite being older than nearly 98 percent of the world population, Williams fought his much younger attacker back out of the door owing to the man’s lack of coordination, the homeowner told the paper. The two tumbled into the yard and as Williams struggled to get to his feet, he managed to cycle a round into the .380’s chamber and a fire shot.
Williams said he heard the intruder quip, “I’ve been hit,” before Williams dashed back into his house to call 911.
Dealing with the Law
Williams called 911 and the police soon showed up. As many people who defend themselves are surprised to learn, the police don’t always take what an armed citizen has to say at face value.
“It seemed to Williams they were more concerned initially with him and with his gun than ‘the guy who was attacking me,’” the Cowboy State Sentinel reported Williams as saying. “But he put the gun down and cooperated.”
An ambulance hauled the wounded intruder to the hospital and took Williams to the police station for further questioning while they also apparently went through his home in his absence. He noted the holster he had pulled his .380 from and flung on his bed was gone when he got home.
The newspaper said the Riverton Police Department refused to respond to that claim “citing the active investigation.” They also declined to comment further other than to say, “the incident appeared to be a shooting in response to an attempted burglary.”
This is why your only words to the police in a DGU should be “I was in fear for me life” and “I need to consult with my attorney before answering any questions”
Excellent advice. Put the word “only” in bold capitals.
also tell them you want checked out at the ER not just the emt/paramedics on the scene. that will buy you time to calm down and get a lawyer en route
Excellent reply…I was involved in a shooting as a cop, and had to 8nterview other cops who had been in shootings. NO, I DID NOT WORK I.A.,! Best advice I had for them, as I would have for any non-gang or criminal shooter would be the same…say you are not ready to make a statement. Ask to be transported to the station, have some coffee, and then ask for a lawyer. This way you are cooperating until you decide if you want to talk…
Absolutely the correct comment.
Attempted burglary? Howz’bout attempted murder?
Fer Kristos’ sake —
DON’T OPEN THE DOOR! Good Gawd people are naive.
HAVE A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER! If the firearm is a revolver, then you don’t need to even think about this. Just make sure it’s loaded. The chances you’ll need more than six rounds are infinitesimal, especially at personal range.
Johnny LeBlanc,
“The chances you’ll need more than six rounds are infinitesimal, especially at personal range.”
Especially if your revolver is a .44 Magnum with a 6-inch barrel and loaded with 180 grain hollow-point bullets on top of a stout propellant load. (That arrangement should launch those 180 grain pills with a muzzle velocity of about 1,600 feet-per-second which generates 1,023 foot-pounds energy!)
“(That arrangement should launch those 180 grain pills with a muzzle velocity of about 1,600 feet-per-second which generates 1,023 foot-pounds energy!)”
Thinking “energy” is effective in at least two directions, and if the energy at the muzzle would knock down a human on impact, the shooter would also be on his/her ass. Of course, energy is important for penetration, but what is the calculated risk the bullet would pass through humans/appendages.
Note: if energy is sufficient to knock down an attacker, the shooter on the ground might be in an awkward position for any needed follow-up shots.
Maybe not.
At contact distances, if the muzzle of that .380 was up against the attackers abdomen, the expanding internal gas bubble would commit more soft tissue damage than the round ever would..
“At contact distances, …. the expanding internal gas bubble would probably commit more soft tissue damage than the round ever would.”
Hadn’t considered that.
Revolvers tend to be more advisable for such things to avoid out of battery failure but even 32acp does nasty things on contact shots.
“Revolvers tend to be more advisable for such things to avoid out of battery failure but even 32acp does nasty things on contact shots.”
Yeah, kinda understood “contact shots” are problematic with semi-autos; one-shot for effect, then run away.
“Despite being older than nearly 98 percent of the world population”
And uses a caliber weaker “than nearly 98% of” all calibers.
Hard to argue with success. Still, a snubbie in 38spc or even 357 might be a good buy if the crazy guy is coming back.
Snubbie 38 is about the same as 380 but with the potential for heavier and different shapes for bullets. Snubbie 357…..yeah depends on loading but a step up with different considerations. But hard to argue with not needed to (or having to remember to) rack at 85 before a crisis.
That inexpensive Taurus-made ‘Roscoe’ in .38 is rated for .38+P, not bad for 300 bucks…
That has been looking better and better as a lower bound option especially with 38spc ammo trickling back into existence.
A .22 in hand is better than two in the bush.
que the caliber wars….
Cool always learn new stuff in those
safe have you been following Dean W’s series on handguns VS bears at ammoland? seems that any handgun regardless caliber can save your bacon in one way or another most times
Haven’t but will have a look and ultimately anything that can get somewhere important and do enough to create an immediate problem can be lifesaving…….. it’s just a question of how close the margins are to failure.
Maybe the elderly gentleman has age related arthritis issues, is recoil sensitive, and a .380 is the most he can comfortably handle. If that should be the case then go with the .380. Just sayin’.
“Maybe the gentleman has age related arthritis issues, is recoil sensitive, and a .380 is the most he can comfortably handle.”
No serious gun owner shoots anything less than .500 S&W. If you can’t properly manage that calibre, just give up, and depend on 911.
That is the most ignorant answer I have ever heard, for self defence in your home/property.
Bill, did you hear a big WHOOOOSH overhead?
Bill K,
The commenter “Sam I Am” frequently types comments with a heavy dose of sarcasm and dry sense of humor, as was the case with this particular comment of his.
“The commenter “Sam I Am” frequently types comments with a heavy dose of sarcasm and dry sense of humor,…”
Sam I Am can afford only a Beretta .22cal Neos space gun, range membership, and pre-paid legal services.
But he thinks big.
Sam who makes this 911 you speak of?!?
Is that a new ruger hand cannon?
if so I want one
JDJ?
“Sam who makes this 911 you speak of?!?
Is that a new ruger hand cannon?
if so I want one”
Excellent rejoinder!
OK…I am a few months shy of 80, and do not have problems yet…however, I think a 357 in a 2-“ revolver might be. Bit too much for someone 5 years my senior to handle. He had a 380, which worked alright when he got a round chambered, so it worked for him.
All a matter of what a person can effectively use. I would hope that 32acp/380acp would be the starting point but situations vary and sometimes a chance is all you can expect.
XZX,
I know people in their mid 80s who have lost enough function in their hands that they cannot responsibly handle larger calibers.
A .380 ACP semi-auto pistol can be a respectable self-defense handgun if it has ample capacity (I would want at least 12) and you load it with the best available bullets. My personal favorite cartridge: Underwood’s “380 ACP 90 grain Xtreme Penetrator solid monolithic hunting and self-defense” cartridges.
I agree. I’ve never quite followed they general dislike for the .380 auto. Its the same caliber as 9mm, Less gunpowder for sure, but with modern ammunition is a completely acceptable caliber. If you want a “1 bullet stop” pistol, you really need to be carrying a hunting caliber pistol (.44 and up). Most all advantages gained from higher caliber pistols is offset by the reduction in ammo capacity. Now, that said, Id have not opened the door, or if I did, I’d have wanted a “Hunting caliber pistol” in my hand. Why not? I’m at home.
Not sure I want to be messing around with anything in 475 indoors but the idea of a 480 Ruger snub is entertaining as a door buster prize.
I got my trusty Gun right here so I’ll just open the door…right. Get a fancy door camera so you can speak with the intruder before you blast him; mount the camera high so the aft cannot tape over it. If it would have been joe biden he would have opened door thinking it was hunter…Time to go mow.
Deb Joe Joe would have put two rounds of birdshot through the door. or the ceiling, or the floor, or…….
And stood there with his empty double barreled shotgun.
The police are not our friends. Their first duty is to protect the State, not the individual. They are more interested in checking the box to “solve the crime (any crime, the easier the better). To Serve and Protect does not refer to you and me. Therefore “I was in fear for my life. Need to call my lawyer” is your only answer.
25 YO vs an 85 yo….. should be mighty simple
Cops like easy cases. To them there are only perpetrators. They just have get a confession.
All are guilty. Only the extent has to be determined.
we’re all guilty they just have to make up the crime
Thanks slick…how about you get trained and pin on a badge, then show us how it is done..huh? No hear, no cattle, no involvement, no ability to comment.
They are not far off for some of the stuff I saw as an MP but some areas are just way more oppressive than others (often driven by DA). There is a reason why we have so much case law regarding police procedure. With that said yeah not exactly easy getting things right every time especially when sleep deprived and already on high alert.
Don’t open your door unless it’s gestapo er cops. And perhaps don’t live alone. Too bad the young cretin lived🙄
Don’t even open it for the cops! “Do you have a warrant? No? Go away.”
Poor old guy will probably never see his gun again. It will stay in the evidence locker in perpetuity until it suddenly disappears, because someone will decide it looks good in their own collection. I surmise he learned his lesson about always having one in the chamber, and am glad the old guy is still around to tell the store. However, it is sad-but am not surprised-that the police were more concerned that the old man actually had a gun to defend himself with.
If you’re only using a .380 ya really have to do a double tap minimum. And if ya live in Wyoming, let the coyotes eat ‘em.
Not a bad practice to use for any caliber while being ready to go to slide lock and reload if need be but typically not an issue (yes there are exceptions but you guys are outliers let’s be honest). As to the coyotes…….. wouldn’t advocate for it and even on the practical end depends on neighbors and other issues (victim potentially needing medical attention note not the burglar the victim)
The Truth About Doors.
As many above have said, don’t answer it. Call the police and let them deal with drug-adled whatevers.
However, everyone should assess their doors. Can you view the doorway from a vantage point? Do you have a doorbell camera? Do you have a solid door? Have you taken the time to replace the short factory screws with longer-stronger screws? Are all of the exterior doors secured? Are the windows next to your door made of tempered glass?
Yes. He should have not answered the door. Yes, He should have already had a round in the chamber. And no. He should not have been hauled to the police station to answer questions.
Have a security rated screen door with the normal door.
These types of events are becoming common in Riverton, Wyoming which has assumed the title of Wyoming’s
“Crime Capitol”
I would probably open the door. But then, I have a steel security door that I would NOT open that allows me to assess any caller.
He did what most of us would do. The cops stole his holster!
We can rant about calibers ’til the cows come home, but the best caliber in all self defense situations is the one you have in your hand.
Aww no fun you jumped to the end before anything could be argued.
Confiscate, Obliterate, Postulate
why is the thin blue line always making the honest citizen who’s defending him or herself made to feel like the guilty one?
David Keith,
When police roll up on a scene with injured people, they initially have no idea if there was an accident, attack, or “mutual combat”. Sure, someone may have called 911 or police and reported an attack–even reporting that the young man was the attacker and the elderly man was a defender–nevertheless police have no idea if that reporting is accurate.
When they arrive, they have to initially assume that everyone may have committed a crime. That being the case, they then go about collecting as much information and evidence as possible–including any statements from everyone on scene. And while those statements and evidence may strongly suggest that the younger man was an attacker and the elderly man was a defender, police still have to keep an open mind because additional / subsequent investigation may reveal even more evidence which totally changes their understanding and hence opinion.
Many people espouse the strategy that the actual victim of an attack has better odds (legally speaking) if the victim comes across authentic, cooperative, and sympathetic to police investigation. Of course police run into people all the time who are excellent liars so police have to take everything with a grain of salt–even someone who claims to be a victim and seems authentic, cooperative, and sympathetic.
In short, while we have the luxury of forming snap opinions based on a couple paragraphs in an article, police do not. That being the case, their initial treatment of true victims may seem less than delicate or empathetic most of the time.
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