America is purging itself of references to and depictions of problematic symbols and individuals. Few will mourn the demise of the stars and bars during NASCAR races, but the drive to realign has now extended the names of some of the country’s most prominent military bases.
From CBS News:
The Senate Armed Services Committee approved an amendment to the annual military spending bill that would require the Defense Department to change the names of military bases and assets named for Confederate leaders.
A source familiar with the proceedings confirmed to CBS News that the GOP-led panel on Wednesday approved the amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) offered by Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts via voice vote. According to a summary of the NDAA released by the committee Thursday, the measure requires the Defense Department to rename posts and assets — streets, aircraft, ships, and other equipment — either named for Confederate officers or that honor the confederacy within three years.
According to the Evergreen State New York Times, there are at least 10 bases with questionable monikers that will likely be at the top of the renaming commission’s list including such high profile facilities as Fort Bragg, Fort Hood and Fort Benning.
We’d like to do everything we can to make this process easier. Toward that end, here are a few suggestions for new names for some of the targeted bases.
Fort Colt
Legendary inventor Sam Colt’s revolver design vastly improved on existing guns and quickly became popular with the US military. He got a big boost when the government bought 1000 of his wheel guns for troops in the Mexican-American war. His designs were also also exemplars of egalitarianism. As has often been noted, God created men and women, but Sam Colt made them equal.
Fort Browning
John Moses Browning is arguably the greatest firearms designer in history, inventing guns and systems that are still in use to this day. As our own Joe Grine wrote, the guns most often associated with John M. Browning are the famed Winchester lever-action guns that “won the west,” the ubiquitous Colt 1911 automatic pistol, and U.S. military machine guns such as the celebrated .50 caliber M2 “Ma Deuce,” the .30 caliber M1919 medium machine gun, and the .30 caliber M1918 BAR automatic rifle.
Fort Stoner
Eugene Stoner worked for ArmaLite Rifle in the 1950’s and perfected the design of the AR-10 for the US military. As ammo.com notes, the Army soon charged Stoner with modifying the AR-10 into what became the AR-15. This would use the smaller .223 Remington cartridge, though it was somewhat enlarged for Army SPCS. In addition to becoming “America’s rifle,” the AR-15 eventually became the M16, which became the standard-issue service rifle for the United States Army in 1969. Not to mention the M4. The AR-15 is the most popular rifle in the country, has come to be known as America’s rifle.
Fort Garand
John Garand is responsible for the design of the rifle that General George Patton called the “greatest battle implement ever devised.” Though his design was finished too late for use in World War I, the federal government, against all odds, had the good sense to keep him working on and improving it at the Springfield Armory in Massachusetts. He patented the .30 caliber M1 rifle in 1932 and the rest, as they say, is history.
That’s only four suggestions honoring great Americans who, we’re sure all will agree, have clearly contributed to the cause of freedom both at home and abroad. We could go on, but we assume the august commission members who are tasked with the job will have their own ideas for a few names, so we’ll leave the rest of the base renaming to them.
Any other suggestions?
Keep givin in, you actually think it’ll end!?
How about renaming Fort Benning to Fort Sherman…i’m sure that would go down well with the locals…
Yep, I’m a local…not happening lol.
I think “Fort Cooper” has a nice ring to it.
Well, after several hours, I guess nobody got the “Cooper” reference? LOL 🙂
Haz:
Just now saw it. Got it right away. (Col. Jeff Cooper.)
Excellent.
Col. Jeff Cooper = The Four Rules
My Grandmother was from Columbus. She used to say Sherman was the devil incarnate. Don’t think that’ll fly for Benning.
Sherman’s comment, when hearing the cheers for war in Louisiana, where he was head of a military academy was essentially this: They don’t know what they are cheering for; war is hell.”
He ripped up everything supporting the Confederate war effort and helped end the war sooner than it might have.
The South sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind. Sherman was the whirlwind.
People who cheer the coming of war, any war, are clueless.
Cooper was a Marine.
Be downright insulting to the memory of the good Colonel to put his name on an ARMY base. 😉
Those they’re looking to placate might like “FORT HIGH POINT”.
I think Ft. J. Fonda for the post that’s home to the infantry, airborne and Ranger schools. Why the fuck not?
Gadsden:
I know you’re just kidding. However, I turn the TV off, when they start showing one of her movies. The fact that she got away with that thing in Vietnam just amazes me. They should have… Oh, never mind.
Not too far a stretch. I think that there is a littoral combat ship named after Harvey Milk.
please don’t use (c)”littoral” in such close proximity to hanoi jane’s name. we have her likeness enshrined in the legion post urinal. it is a difficult target to miss, and it smells nice.
Come on, guys, we can get behind this. Somebody knows when the next base will be closed. A week before the closure is announced, rename it after Fonda, then announce its closing. Wouldn’t that be a suitable insult for the nasty bitch?
fort yeet.
Joint Base Stoner – High Point…
Exactly. And the author should speak for himself about “Few will mourn the demise of the stars and bars during NASCAR races”. Its a part of our history, especially in the South. First it’s Confederates, now it also moved to Christopher Columbus. Next it will be Jefferson and Washington. If you can’t figure out who these people are after they defamed the Lincoln Memorial, and the monument to the 10th Massachusetts (the first black regiment in the Civil War _ see the move “Glory”). This is all part of a Leftist takeover from the inside. If people continue to not realize this, this country is lost.
Watch the news. It already has!
peoples perceptions of individuals can alter over time…it happens…but altering history is something totally different….
Well, considering that Washington and Jefferson both owned slaves, it is bound to be “suggested” sooner or later. In fact:
“Not only did slave laborers help build the White House all of the earliest presidents (except for John Adams and his son John Quincy Adams) were slave owners. George Washington kept some 300 bondsmen at his Mount Vernon plantation. Thomas Jefferson—despite once calling slavery an “assemblage of horrors”—owned at least 175 enslaved workers at one time. James Madison, James Monroe and Andrew Jackson each kept several dozen enslaved workers, and Martin Van Buren owned one during his early career.
William Henry Harrison owned several inherited enslaved people before becoming president in 1841, while John Tyler and James K. Polk were both slaveholders during their stints in office. Zachary Taylor, who served from 1849-1850, was the last chief executive to keep enslaved people while living in the White House. He owned some 150 enslaved workers on plantations in Kentucky, Mississippi and Louisiana.”
I guess, then, that the only way to purge ourselves of this original sin is to burn the place down and start all over again. With reparations to the families of the slaves.(California has authorized a commission to explore reparations to slave families. I guess it doesn’t matter that California was not a slave state, even if the early Spanish owned slaves (usually Indians) and the railroad barons treated their workers like slaves–Stanford was one of the worst offenders.
Reparations. That is an interesting subject. How will it be determined who is black and entitled to reparations? Will payment be determined by how black you are and how will that be determined? Who gets to determine that and what will their qualifications be? that Will there be some kind genetic test? What about people who identify as black but don’t test out? If six foot two inch, 200 lb Bruce Jenner can identify as a woman, what is to keep a white person from identifying as black to qualify for reparations payment? Will the descendants of Black People who owned slaves be eligible? Everybody is going to want to stand in this line. How will we determine who is really black and how much? Hell, we can’t even agree on who is male or female.
“I guess, then, that the only way to purge ourselves of this original sin is to burn the place down and start all over again.”
That’s the end game, seriously.
They claim America was illegitimately founded by slave owners, is in no way exceptional or better than any other country, and the constitution should be completely re-written, to Leftist standards.
Why do you think they are so compelled to to bash this country every time they speak or write?
They are building a narrative, a new history that they want, and they are playing the long game to get it…
They’ve also gone after the Mattias Baldwin statue.
That demonstrates pretty well that this isn’t “targeted”, it’s just blind rage comi g from ignorant people.
I think you are referring to the 54th Massachusetts?
“our history” if you’re white. I doubt the blacks in your area appreciate the significance or relish the memory.
Perhaps you might not like Fort Vesey or Fort Turner.
Boo fuckin hoo. Who gives a rat’s ass what they care about. Getting sick of whining fucking idiots.
One of the first moves in a socialist society is to erase the past, so there is nothing to go bacl to!
These idiots are tearing down statues of abolitionists, civil rights activists and others who fought for causes you’d think they would support. The truth is they are just tearing down any statue put up to honor anyone in previous generations.
It does not matter what you support or don’t support, they will come for you sooner or later. That was the lesson of Martin Niemöller and Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
Great history.
5 whole years of losing.
Nothing says “I’m willing to kill a man for the right to own another man” like the Confederate Flag.
And NASCAR still waves the official flag of the confederacy near the end of every race – the White Flag.
No kidding. Keep giving into the terrorists and then one day you’ll then around and realize you live in the ussr. How about we rename the democrat party the party of slavery. We can rename black lives matter and antifa commie terrorist organizations. We can rename anybody that doesn’t believe in the Constitution a traitor. And maybe we can rename anybody that wants special treatment for black people just a racist asshole, which is what they are. The world is pretty simple if you take the time to be honest.
oh! but you can’t do that! you would be a fascist nazi! -like they are
Well at the rate of stunning capitulation to the leftist forces in this country, I’m sure the forts will be renamed to Ft Antifa, Ft BLM, and Fort Pelosi. Or perhaps Ft. Mao, Ft Lenin, and Ft Obama…
Those won’t last long however, as Al Qaeda is resurgent and successfully infiltrating the left, the left will swiftly be conquered by Islam, and we’ll have Ft Osama, Ft Bagdahdi, and Ft Saladin.
This is a cultural revolution people. And the left is winning.
Just 2 days ago, Al-Qaeda was trying to repaint itself as the savior of the oppressed peoples of the U.S. Probably don’t have to outline the bitter irony of one of the most repressive & bloodthirsty organizations in current existence making such obvious b.s. claims, but there it is.
No kidding! I suggest they stop trying to rename things, get rid of statues and state flags just because they hate white people.
It’s about time to move on from the Civil War. How about Fort Patton, Fort Gavin (for Airborne), Fort York, Fort Pershing; etc. Let’s honor some leaders from the 20th Century, not the Nineteenth.
I like the way you think, but why stop at the 20th century? We should name the bases after 21st century heros…. Like Fort Benning can be renamed Fort Bergdahl, Fort Bragg can be Fort Lindh, and Fort Hood can be renamed Fort Nidal Hasan.
Eric Swalwell 2020
Insert fart sound
*/s
FTFY
No…. I didn’t forget the /s…. I’m, like, super duper nuclear serious my friend.
Eric Swalwell 2020
I don’t think Trump will Pander to anybody. Take that back, I know he won’t
No he won’t. I came into work this morning, put on my best face of disgust and said: “Were you guys watching? Trump just got down on his knees and asked for forgiveness for being white!”
Didn’t fool anyone for a second.
I wonder how many times I can vote for him. Have we started the 2024 campaign yet?
No surer, no pandering here boss!
“Trump, speaking at a rally in West Virginia on Saturday night, said both leaders took tough positions at their June summit.
“I was really tough and so was he, and we went back and forth,” Trump told an adoring crowd of thousands at Wesbanco Arena in Wheeling. “And then we fell in love, OK? No, really, he wrote me beautiful letters, and they’re great letters. We fell in love.”
Your liberal brothers are seceding right now in Seattle. Perhaps put down the keyboard and all the tough talk about hanging traitors… or perhaps maybe you’d like to join them?
Put your money where your mouth is tough guy.
So you were pro-war with the North Korean regime. Got it.
But I suppose he was missing the pallet of cash sent in the dead of night without congressional approval.
NK has been pretty quiet for a couple years now. I get it, it’s bad because Trump.
Forts should be named after cartoon characters who are known to use military equipment during their hijinx and capers. Examples might be: Fort Wiley Coyote, Fort Fudd, and Fort Yosemite Sam.
minus their guns, of course…how do you hunt “wabbits” without a shotgun?…there’s a lesson there for Fudds everywhere…
Speaking of purging pop-culture; Maybe Stephen Spielberg can give Saving Private Ryan the E.T. “gun treatment”…. the 29th Infantry Division (“Blue and Gray” Division of the Virginia National Guard), that got slaughtered taking Omaha Beach, has to have the gray purged from their unit insignia. Maybe Pvt. Upham can wear a pink-triangle-pride-patch on his shoulder instead?
If you’re going to go the cartoon route “Camp/Fort Venom” has a decent ring to it.
Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
I suggest not renaming them. Anyone who supports it is the problem in this country. It’s a name. It’s a word. What is wrong with people?
I’m tired of it. This is literally because of peoples fee fees. I’m embarrassed of this country at this point. Then I look at Europe and go “I’m so glad I don’t live there”
“It’s a name. It’s a word.”
Exactly, it’s just a word, so there should be no problem renaming it, right?
Unless you have some sort of emotional need to name our military bases after traitorous scoundrels who broke their oath to protect and uphold the Constitution…
Name one person in the Confederacy who was ever prosecuted for sedition, treason, or any act related to violating the constitution. …… *crickets*…..Session WAS written in to the constitution then later amended after the Civil War.
Correction* The SCOTUS ruled on secession :Texas v White in 1869. The legality was never addressed by the Legislative branch but constantly came in to question by the Executive branch since the Revolution until the Civil War.
No one was prosecuted because Lincoln, in his ultimate compassion and desire for reunification, pardoned the traitors.
And we can debate whether the doctrine of succession by the states is written into the Constitution or ruled on by the SCOTUS, but that’s a minor issue compared to their most egregious sin of taking up arms against the government of the United States of America.
The constitution is firmly unequivocal on the issue of treason against America, the penalty is death. Robert E Lee should’ve swung from the lamp posts, along with his merry band of pranksters.
Miner49er, when you want to discuss something, you should at very least know what it’s called. Like ‘secession’.
So – some of the States decided to secede (not succeed) from the Union and to create a Confederation. Their reasons aside, there is nothing illegal or even wrong in that. When Unionist armed forces refused to leave a Confederate fort (after being asked nicely for quite a time) and tried instead to resupply and reinforce the crew, they got kicked out by artillery bombardment. There can be no talk about treason when one country attacks other country’s armed forces on its own territory. The rest is two countries fighting a war, until the Confederation lost and got annexed back into the Union.
Now you can consider yourself educated and stop repeating your nonsense about treason.
“ When Unionist armed forces refused to leave a Confederate fort (after being asked nicely for quite a time) and tried instead to resupply and reinforce the crew, they got kicked out by artillery bombardment.”
Fort Sumter was United States government property under the Constitution, it didn’t belong to any of the states.
When Robert E Lee commanded Confederate troops to fire on American citizens serving their country in the United States Army and Navy, he committed treason against the constitution he had sworn an oath to defend.
And the south commenced this war against the newly elected Republican president and the United States of America, in order to perpetuate the crime of slavery, contrary to the statement of the United States Constitution, ‘all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain on alienable rights… ‘
I thought you guys were all about following the black letter law of the constitution.
Hey…. Miner, it was just Democrats being Democrats.
Jeez Miner49er…. Death to secessionists? You hold a more radical nationalist position than Trump. Maybe we should send you to Seattle to mop up those GHAZ traitors.
Oh… and one more thing Miner49er, re: prosecution and pardons: Jeff Davis was never pardoned… they spent 10 years trying to prosecute him but could not bring any presentable case to court because he never broke the law. In the end he was simply released on his own recognizance neither free nor criminal. The surrendered soldiers of the Confederacy were paroled as prisoners of war and later patriated in to the USA. They weren’t pardoned because they were never convicted of any crimes….. Except for that Wirtz fellow at Andersonville. He got hung for crimes agaisnt humanity.
Miner:
“contrary to the statement of the United States Constitution, ‘all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain on alienable rights… ‘ ”
Except that those words don’t appear in the Constitution of the United States. They’re from the Declaration of Independence, which is NOT a part of the Constitution. Now you can argue about whether or not they ought to be.
wirz.
and champ ferguson.
“No one was prosecuted because Lincoln, in his ultimate compassion and desire for reunification, pardoned the traitors.”
That is literally not true. President Lincoln was murdered before he could do so. Despite of bluster by the likes of President Johnson and the Radical Republicans, the U.S. government did not prosecute anyone, except for the commandant of Andersonville prison, because the courts would have ruled that there was, indeed, a right of U.S. states to secede.
You are such a liar.
Excuse me…Where in the Constitution does it say that any State can not leave said union?
Since “Antibellum” is now racist, we can’t talk about anything pre-Civil War… which would include the American Revolution, the writing of the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights. Darn.
What’s the answer? Looking at you Miner49er.
It’s not a minor issue, it’s the only issue.
Did the States have a right to leave the union? Show me in the Constitution!
The answer is no, as we proved in the Civil War, thank you very much.
But that is a secondary issue to the armed insurrection pursued by the confederacy.
In order to learn more about why the south went to war, you might want to peruse the ‘cornerstone speech‘, wherein the causes for war are laid out quite clearly.
Show me in the Constitution!!! You bloody well can’t.
But since you said “no’ to the question then the answer is simple, no reason..even slavery..exists that would have allowed the Southern States to leave…
But wait, why did the North invade? It wasn’t over slavery.
“….I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races…”
“….and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race….” THE WHITE RACE.
Who said these words…and whose temple exists in Washington?
Miner49er: Insurrection is an attempt to overthrow the government. Secession is the exact opposite of insurrection….. They just wanted to leave…. You got any more incorrectly applied buzz words you wanna throw out there? You can always scream that we’re racist.
It actually states that you can leave the union . Many experts have not really read this and have not researched the history where this was discussed . So after legally leaving the union, they were then a separate nation. Being a separate nation there was no treason.
lmao. You just proved my point.
However, you’d also totally support renaming anything named Washington, Jefferson ect.. wouldn’t you? Be honest.
No, neither Jefferson nor Washington took up arms against America.
I really can’t understand you folks position on this issue, the rebellion was against a properly elected Republican president. I’m glad you folks think it’s OK to take up arms against a Republican president, there are many liberals who feel that might be a good thing to do and it seems like many of the US Army and Marines feel the same way, given the recent statements by the military’s most honorded leadership.
The issue is treason.
And what makes it even more shameful is the fact that the treason was committed to perpetuate the enslavement of our fellow humans, directly against the constitution‘s statement that all men are created equal.
No, that’s not the issue. At all. Because I know you. I’ve seen enough of your posts here to know what you truly are.
You don’t give a flying fuck about the constitution. Or Washington. Or the revolution. Or the bill of rights.
Your simply using this particular issue the further inflame tensions, and whichever particular arguments suits your goal, you’ll use.
The REAL problem in this country is insidious, treasonous, anti American leftists like you who will use ANY argument they can come up with to undermine America. And that’s a fact. You only think you are smarter then everyone here, when in fact, you are quite stupid.
Ron, thank you so much for your personal attack, now we know the caliber of your character a bit more clearly.
I’m sorry you disagree with my opinion, but that’s just too bad. This is America, we are differing opinions are tolerated, even if they make other people uncomfortable or annoyed.
Regardless of your name calling the fact that the confederacy was a traitorous and evil organization that workEd to destroy the United States of America and perpetuate the enslavement of their fellow humans will never change.
I think you are frightened at the idea of true equality for all Americans, regardless of race, religion, color or gender. You see your position of unearned privilege evaporating and you ware desperately lashing out at anything or anyone you think may be responsible.
To the privileged, equality feels like oppression.
You just assumed I’m white.
You are a racist.
Remember Miner… when you are referring to the military leadership you are talking about the ones who survived the eight years of the Obama purge. Yeah… we know what was going on.
Na…. like the other dude said to you Miner49er. We’ve all been here long enough to smell the shite you’ve been peddling. There’s no memory hole here for you toss your “thruth” in to. It’s all typical leftist crap. You’ve never stood up for the military unless it benefitted your argument. You’ve never stood up for police unless it benefitted your argument. You’ve never stood up for the Bill of Right or the Constitution unless it benefitted your argument. You’ve consistently trashed America and Republicans and now you want us to believe you are some kind of anti-treason pro-military flag waiving nationalist American patriot?… I definitely smell shite.
Ah, it’s one of the little trolls back from the basement! “Miner49er” is a lefty from many comments! It must really bother him/her/it that some people still love America!
I love America, and I hate the confederacy.
You can suck up to the traitors and wave their second place flag if you want, I’ll stick with the good old united states of America.
No, you don’t like America and you’ve alluded to that many times on TTAG. You’re simply acting like you do right now to inflame tensions even more.
There wasn’t any prohibitions for the CSA states from withdrawing from the Union as there is today. Most of the soldiers, sailors and marines in the war fought mostly for their states. Since they withdrew from the Union legally, they cannot be traitors. They were also pardoned, if they so chose to take hair of the dog.
When you except a pardon, you admit your guilt, that’s the way it works.
Most of the CSA military officers were United States of America Army and Navy officers who had sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution, against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
When they took up arms against the United States of America, they committed treason by using force of arms to violently overthrow the United States of America.
150 years later, you can claim what the Confederates did was somehow legal, But the American citizens of the day, serving their country in the military, in the government or on the homefront, knew it was illegal and went to war to stop it.
Slavery is anathema. Period. But using the slavery excuse in an attempt to condemn the memory of Americans who fought and died fighting for the sovereign state/limited Federal government that was prescribed by our Constitution- is indefensible. No equitable conversation can eventuate if parties insist upon imposing out-of-context analysis in order to fit politically expedient narratives.
The North waged an economic war against the South- and the South fought back. This is not what is taught in history books, mainly because the North won the war. It does not make it any less true, though. The people who fought and died for the Confederacy were Americans- and they were more akin to the Patriots of the American Revolution than anything else. Again, you’ve always been told that supporters of the Confederacy were nothing short of racist, soulless, treasonous vermin. And you believed it? You really did, didn’t you. Why? You know that it logically, factually, and historically cannot be true. Remember– Context matters.
The question you should be asking yourself is this: are you honestly willing to desecrate the solemn remembrance of ordinary, inculpable American citizens who witnessed their own government actively destroying the only economy they knew? Picture that- their entire world as they knew it. It’s kind of like having your Constitutional Rights infringed- literally. How does it make you feel when that happens? You’d think TTAG would be ground zero for folks who understand just how repugnant that is. It’s as repugnant as slavery is, but you must be objective and insightful enough to realize that the Civil War was not the unequivocal North-good/South-bad deception that has been imposed on everyone since the war ended. Did you ever wonder why The South has never “gotten over” the War? Because it has NOTHING to do with slavery- that’s why. Starting to get it, now?
We are our history. Americans honor the sacrifices made by our ancestors. All of our ancestors. And we cannot allow our acknowledgement of them be at the vagary of fickle, political artifice. You can affirm history, or you can erase it. I believe in an America that has the ability to be honest with itself for the good of everyone- I reject those simply seeking power for their own selfish objectives. And as an American, I will fight to ensure that they do not prevail.
Peter Gunn:
I agree with almost everything you have to say. However, to say that the Civil War was not about slavery is disingenuous. The South seceded, because slavery was an integral feature of its agrarian economy. Most (but not all) historians agree that the South seceded from the Union based upon the (erroneous) perception that the newly elected Lincoln was all about the abolition of slavery. (Lincoln did despise slavery, but he initially was not about to push it; that came later in the middle of the war.) There is historical evidence in the form of written southern correspondence to back this up, but I can’t take the time to research/quote chapter and verse. The states-rights argument (the so-called “Lost Cause”) is an early revision of history and came later on.
Dave G.,
I’m sure you understand that I’m talking about the economics of slavery- upon which the agrarian South’s economy was based. The number of Southerners defending the South who actually owned any slaves was minuscule. They did not take up arms to defend the South because they felt some kind of “moral obligation” to fight for the legal institution of slavery. Non-slave-owning Southerners were simply experiencing a full-on economic assault on everything they knew. They understood this aggression was not rooted in moral superiority, it was straight-up economics- the North wanted to remove the South’s “advantage”. The North was no bastion of morality- they waged an economic war to benefit themselves.
Now, I am not arguing that slavery is in any way acceptable- it isn’t. But I am saying that the realities of Civil War America are not easily summed up in a tidy package labeled North-good/South-bad. The South’s agrarian/slave-based economy’s days were numbered regardless of Northern interference- yet the North instigated a war over it anyway. Again, taken in context, the South resisted Northern aggression in the same way the Colonists resisted British aggression. Yet, we praise the heroes of the Revolution and increasingly disparage their Civil War analogues. For conscionable Southerners, the war has never ended because it is NOT about slavery- it is about the erosion of freedom perpetrated by a continually expanding, voracious Federal government. Precisely what the Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution to safeguard against.
Miner as a paid instigator troll have also spent hours posting at a 10:1 ratio here against the bill of rights…
You apparently have no knowledge of the reconstruction period and how well vilifying a defeated enemy worked after WW1
Psychos erase history cuz they aggro.
Psychos children “why so aggro?”
Psychos try to point to history.
Psychos children “so you’re just making shit up now?”
“erase history”
No one is trying to erase history, it’s all right there in the history books if you could actually read.
Why should American’s public spaces be filled with second-place participation trophies for the traitorous scoundrels who broke their oath?
My God 49er do you have to be such a douchebag? You seem to enjoy being the resident douche Troll so I guess you were the same kind of trollish moron in school also.
Actually… …they’re rewriting the history books too.
This.
We’ve already seen ebooks get re-written on the fly.
History will be as fluid as gender is claimed to be.
history gets rewritten all the time…as new facts emerge…but injecting personal bias is generally unacceptable when incorporated into a political agenda….
“We’ve already seen ebooks get re-written on the fly.”
That’s quite the queen, I’d love to see your evidence to make that assertion.
Frank speak has a good point, as new facts are revealed to research, we update our history books. But only as a result of rigorous, peer reviewed research new changes get made.
In most cases in the United States, it’s more a situation where our true history has been concealed and only later revealed.
For instance, I was never taught that Thomas Jefferson kept an under age black slave girl and had multiple children by her.
But what do you know, he sure did! They kept that one out of the history books for almost 150 years.
And the germ warfare conducted by the US Army against Native Americans, intentionally giving them smallpox contaminated blankets in the dead of winter, how clever!
True.
There was a history test put out a couple of years ago that ticked off portions of the veteran community by claiming that the US started WWII by nuking Japan.
It was a public flap that was reasonably well documented. The textbook company claimed it was an error not caught by editing and rewrote the section, effectively ending the controversy.
Was it intentional? An honest error? I dunno but it was pretty dumb.
People wonder why I collect books. This is why. If cancel culture continues then pretty quick the new editions in the library won’t be ones you recognize. I mean, just ask The Brother’s Grimm or Little Red Riding Hood.
*text
“There was a history test put out a couple of years ago that ticked off portions of the veteran community by claiming that the US started WWII by nuking Japan.”
That’s amazing.
Could you please provide some sort of reference or source for that claim, thanks.
“There was a history test put out a couple of years ago that ticked off portions of the veteran community by claiming that the US started WWII by nuking Japan.”
I’m not sure on that one, but I am certain something similar happend at the Smithsonian Institution’s ‘Air and Space’ museum when a display for the ‘Enola Gay’ was being constructed. (The plane that dropped the first nuclear weapon in anger.)
Boy, howdy, did that ever cause a stink and a conniption fit from the WW2 military veterans :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enola_Gay#Exhibition_controversy
Before the Civil War, a man’s primary allegiance was to his State, not some distant Federal government.
Correct.
For example, King George signed surrender documents ….that included.(.thirteen states as “free, sovereign and independent”)
….The Revolutionary War had lasted six years—from the Battle of Lexington and Concord in 1775 to Cornwallis’s surrender in 1781—and peace negotiations had dragged on for another two years. Finally, on September 3, 1783, the final treaty was signed in Paris, and it was no mere truce between fighting nations weary of combat. The United States had won. Britain had lost. The stunned and reduced imperial power agreed to recognize the thirteen states as “free, sovereign and independent” (not just autonomous within the empire), relinquish all territorial claims to its former colonies, evacuate its military forces, and allow Americans fishing rights in the Grand Banks of Newfoundland (a critical issue). Here we look at America’s victory from the dark days of 1780 through the arduous months of treaty negotiations to the official end of the war….
No, our allegiance should always be to the constitution.
No ‘loyalty pledges’ to a ‘supreme leader’ or ‘the chosen one‘, that was Hitler’s strategy.
When you enlist or enter a public office, you swear an oath to the Constitution, not to any one man even if his name is Trump.
And the constitution decrees the penalty for treason is death, not commemoration with some white marble statue.
Southern boy must have really kicked your ass good.
So Miner you’d agree then that the federal US military should enter Seattle and hang all the rebels who formed Chaz?
What other country has military bases named after traitors?
They were pardoned
When you accept a pardon you were pleading guilty to the charge.
Under the constitution which prescribes death as the penalty for treason, every one of them could’ve been hung.
Instead, Lincoln in an attempt to reunite our country, pardonEd the traitorous scum.
And I expect all those on this forum, who consider themselves original constitutionalists, will agree. The Constitution specifically names the death penalty for treason and I think we can all agree that Lee, and the other traitors should’ve been hung for their armed insurrection against the United States of America.
Well 49er did you feel the same way when Ford pardoned all those traitors who ran off to Canada during the Vietnam war so his cowardly son could come back home? Your still a douchetroll but try to be a consistent troll.
“who ran off to Canada during the Vietnam war”
I understand sometimes subtle nuances is beyond you. Those who went to Canada were not traitors who took up arms against America, they were not even deserters.
They, like cadet Donald ‘bone spurs‘ Trump, were draft dodgers who avoided service.
While the constitution is silent on the subject of draft dodgers, it is unequivocal on the subject of treason, the penalty required is death.
You do realize that part of the reason for those pardons is because of how the Constitution spells out the process for conviction on a treason charge, right?
Further, the Constitution doesn’t spell out a punishment. It states “The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attained”.
18 USC Ch 115 § 2381 spells out the punishment. Which is not less than 5 years imprisonment and fines not less than $10,000 at the minimum and death at the maximum. This law was originally passed in 1948.
So, in cases of treason the penalty is not just “death”. There’s a range of sentencing options to be imposed by a sentencing court and the Constitution doesn’t provide for the sentencing options it very explicitly leaves a creation of sentencing options to Congress.
Come on, Strych9, any efforts to educate the 49er are like trying to teach a pig to sing. He has a lots of firm (and mostly stupid) positions based on very little (and mostly wrong) knowledge. How else could one become a disgusting leftist slime?
@someone (nice handle BTW)
It’s not that I feel the particular need to correct miner specifically. I’m far more interested in the fact that no one else has simply terminated that line within the thread by posting the two simple facts that I did.
If people want to argue the politics of reconciliation, have at it. Personally, I’m not that interested in it. The same way I’m not interested in arguing about why the Founders elected to allow the continuation of what was at the time the dying institution of slavery.
I can see valid and semi valid arguments on both sides of each argument based on the history but I’m not going to argue the mindset of people who didn’t state theirs at the time. Arguing about a dead man’s unstated perspective is, IMHO, a waste of time.
However, the distortion of such facts as I have illuminated is, in some contexts, unacceptable. No constructive conversation can be had when that conversation is based on untruths.
My personal view on miner is similar to that I have on both Chief Censor and pwrserge. Credit where it’s due and all that but also corrections where necessary. IMHO, these folks are not simple trolls and, as I said of a certain anti V a x person here long ago, they have something to contribute if you look for it, unlike, some other accounts that simply are trolls and not worth anyone’s time to interact with. However, that contribution is degraded significantly if falsehoods are allowed to stand.
Yes nine, thank you for your reply!
Here it is, codified in statute:
18 U.S. Code § 2381. Treason
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
The operative phrase is:
“is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000”
Now, I have seen you folks debate the meaning of ‘shall’ many times, and it seems the consensus is that it is an obligation, has that changed?
“guilty of treason and shall suffer death“
That seems pretty clear, ‘shall suffer death‘.
Robert E Lee owed allegiance to the United States of America because of his oath, he waged war against the United States of America so he was clearly guilty of treason.
S9, frankly, I’m surprised at your editing attempt.
Here’s how you cited US statute regarding treason:
“18 USC Ch 115 § 2381 spells out the punishment. Which is not less than 5 years imprisonment and fines not less than $10,000 at the minimum and death at the maximum. This law was originally passed in 1948.”
Somehow you left out the part ‘guilty of treason and shall suffer death’, why would you leave that part out?
Miner:
Because I can English at a level above toddler babble and I can arithmetic well enough to know that 1948 comes after 1865, by 83 whole years in fact.
it was probably a gesture of reconciliation…to help heal the wounds of a devastated south…but that was long ago…and the need for it has passed….
NO, it has not.
Sure it has…we’ve had our share of heroes since then….
It’s simply part of the re-write of history. And it will not stop. Example: Just heard the UT students want to get rid of the “Eyes of Texas” fight song. You keep giving in, there will be nothing left. Our history is what makes us as a people. the Useful Idiots to don’t understand that or don’t care are enemies of the people.
“Our history is what makes us as a people.”
Yes, our history does inform our culture, but that doesn’t mean we must commemorate and erect statues to the worst among us. A footnote in the history books about the confederacies treason and arms insurrection against the constitution is all that’s needed.
You know, Robert E Lee himself said that we should not elect statues to him or any other confederate official, he felt it wasn’t proper.
So far, a question that no one has asked or answered is why the bases were given those names in the first place. The Civil War, and resentment left over from it, was much closer back then. I would have expected the Union victors to be less, rather than more, likely to name a base after a southern general.
During the Napoleonic wars, both the British and French navies named some of their own warships after enemy warships that had distinguished themselves especially in battle.
Be careful whom you call traitors. The Founding Fathers weren’t traitors only because they won the American Revolution. It would be a different story had they lost. As a Canadian, I’m familiar with the rebellions in Lower Canada (Quebec), Upper Canada (Ontario) and the two Metis rebellions out west. The leaders of those rebellions weren’t treated kindly.
What traitors? The bases were not named for, or to honor the Confederacy. They were simply named for soldiers that fought for a cause that they believed in. Most, if not all of them probably didn’t even own any slaves. The war is over and the men are dead so leave these historically named bases alone.
Lee had plenty..and he treated them harshly….
And we should probably not name a human rights institution after him, but I think military context might actually fit. Hell, look how much we still honor van Buren in space flight.
“They were simply named for soldiers that fought for a cause that they believed in.”
So you are in favor of a statue to Timothy McVeigh who killed men, women and children for a cause he believed in?
How about Mohamed Atta, he slayed thousands for a cause he believed in, are you ready for his statue to be erected in Time Square?
And I’d say somewhere near the Arizona Memorial would be a great location for Emperor Hirohito’s statue to celebrate his struggle for a cause he believed in, right?
No, America should not commemorate our enemies, those who chose to take up arms against our Constitution and kill Americans serving their country, that’s known as treason.
This one doesn’t. Haven’t seen one named O’Bama.
If we are not careful they will start renaming them after people killed by the police.
Why stop there? What was the name of the black lives matter guy that killed those cops in Texas a few years back? Yeah… “Fort racist d-bag that murdered cops” that has a nice ring to it.
If you don’t like the name of military bases, move to a country that you like & support. It’s that simple, but the ones bitching never served!
Think Fort Stoner might need to be reserved fo a base in a state that has legalized Marijuana. Just saying.
I’m getting damn fed up with all this crap ! We keep on and on giving their ass’s every damn thing that they want ! Hell, Martin Luther King’s monument’s, statue’s, etc., offend me…..let’s take all of them down ! Friends, it’s time to “Lock & Load” and let’s end this damn crap ! !
yeah,..all this pandering to blacks is starting to get really old..how much longer can the tail wag the dog?…
“Martin Luther King’s monument’s, statue’s, etc., offend me…..let’s take all of them down !”
That’s because you’re clearly a racist.
Those Confederate statues are second-place participation trophies for men who committed treason and high crimes against the United States of America.
Martin Luther King was a man of God who worked to unite the people and bring God-given rights to all men and women.
Robert E Lee was a US Army soldier who violated his oath, took up arms against the United States of America, led other insurrectionists in attacks against the duly elected Republican president of America.
The constitution, in black letter law, commands the death penalty for treason, Robert E Lee and the rest of the traitors should’ve been hung.
…which would probably have precipitated a guerrilla war that would have dragged on for years..the one thing Lincoln, Grant and even Lee wanted desperately to avoid…….
Again, TROLL, you don’t know what you are talking about. As stated earlier, Succession was original part of the Constitution. It was amended after the Civil War to negate it.
Secession?…..
Thank you for the correction.
Thank you for the name calling, it gives us all a clear estimation of your intellectual capabilities.
The issue is not seccession, the issue is treason, try to keep up.
Taking up arms against the constitution and Republican president of the United States of America is treason, for which the Constitution requires a penalty of death, not some lame ass statue in the village Square.
Unless you wish to ignore the constitution, in which case I’m glad to hear that because there are a lot of people who like to take up arms against Republican president Trump and I’m glad you are in agreement with their right to do so.
So explain to me how it was secession if the Constitution allowed for it. My intelligence, really? Then I guess I’m the biggest dumbass with a Masters out there. Interesting you mention taking an oath to the Constitution. It’s because of their oath to the Constitution that modern day patriots might have to fight the government because of all the unconstitutional things it is doing. The attack on the 2nd Amendment and the lockdowns on the pandemic are just two examples. I served this country for 12 years. How many did you serve?
MLK’s statues don’t offend me, but I have wondered how people would feel if his statues were vandalized, destroyed and removed because it appears that this “man of God” may have been a womanizer, a philanderer and even a witness to rape without intervening.
It actually appears he was a pretty smart, shrewd guy who knew how to manipulate the media at a time when television was entering the living rooms across America….and revealing stunning images of what was actually going on in the south….
You may choose to propagate whatever rumor about Martin Luther King you wish to, it does nothing but cheapen you in the eyes of others.
Regardless of whatever Martin Luther King shortcomings were, Dr. King never took up arms against this country, Dr. King never violated his oath to protect and defend the Constitution.
Help me to understand why so many of you folks are having difficulty understanding treason?
“Dr.” Lol
Man of god? He was a serial philanderer who was present in a room when a woman was raped and instead of stopping it, he encouraged it.
That’s as despicable as a slave owner in my book and I am well within my rights to demand the street be renamed. But maybe the street naming is apt…
Again the issue is not slavery or adultery, the issue is treason, armed insurrection against the Constitution of the United States of America.
So, miner. If any of your antifa buddies take up arms against the gop president currently in office you agree that they should be hanged as traitors?
@49er
Funny how Luther now is a man of God, when quite recently it was just a sky-daddy for you.
No conflict, MLK felt he was a man of God and I won’t argue with it. No man is perfect and neither was he.
As long as he didn’t try to impose his beliefs on me, I have no problem with him.
It is a religious intolerance and hate that I see as the problem.
Dude, get some new talking points, these are getting old traitor. Hasn’t Soros sent you any new ones ?
You probably support nothing MLK said. Today he would be labeled a right wing extremist.
Fort Trump in Va.
That would really inspire patriotism and duty to country, cadet bone spurs and his five draft deferments would be quite the fitting name steak for a military base.
We could name another base after dick Cheney, his five draft deferments are clearly a record that needs to be celebrated by all patriots, especially the veterans!
This I reckon is true: the average raggedy ass shoeless Reb who left his crops to go kill the shit out of Yankees is 10 times the man you’ll ever be, with more guts, honor, courage and of course fighting ability than your family tree combined. You are just a crybaby, excuse-making vapor of a little “man” trying to blame Centuries under-achievement on “systemic” (or “systematic,” depending on the limitations of vocabulary) on whitey because the truth is just too hard to face.
Great idea, continue to mock our institutions, dont point out the marxist revolution brewing in our nation, now a nation of low-intensity conflict, and strategy of tension 4th generation warfare, keep making stupid suggestions like this. Cause Im sure as those that scoff, and dismiss this action as meaningless, and the tearing down of statues in VA as not important, but say when they come for the Washington and Jefferson memorials, then its game on. You are deluding yourself, you already dont understand the current battlespace.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Agreed
Here here. The enemies of this country want us divided. Some people are still in the dugout and the commies are on 3rd.
Keep telling decent people they’re evil and you won’t like what happens.
The War of Southern Aggression to maintain the enslavement of millions ended a very long time ago. It made very good sense for the Union to to forgive the aggressors, embrace them back into the Union. But to name military bases after them never did make any sense. Nor did tolerating the building of monuments and the proliferation of the aggressor’s battle flag, most of which came decades later.
With the military itself moving to rename bases, I see no need for either Congress or that idiot in the White House to stick their noses in it.
Rarely agree with enuf. Until today…all this glorifying traitors is fairly recent. How about FT Michael Obama?!?😏😏😏😏😏😋😋😋
“Michael Obama”? Who’s that?
The former president’s first gentleman.
LOL…Enuf is a second rate troll😃Perhaps a foreign bot. Sorry I didn’t leave a “sarc” tag. Never do.
the tactics and strategy employed by southern generals are still being studied today…in that regard we should respect their abilities..but not their politics…
Politics hell, their ethics and morals, not to mention their Fidelity to their oath to the Constitution, is the issue.
If we take the statues down, change the names of everything, then they’ll get their shit together, right?
Didn’t think so.
wonder how much longer Stone Mountain can survive?…….
is the signage for negro mountain still up? last pass thru the allegheny’s i didn’t see any.
never mind.
“In April 2019, the Maryland State Highway Administration removed road signs for Negro Mountain, citing concerns over racial sensitivity. Four signs were removed along Interstate 68 and U.S. Alternate Route 40.”
“Southern Aggression”??????….very little evidence of that…from their standpoint it was mostly a defensive struggle…..
Then they should never have started the war by attacking first or by declaring war as a defense of slavery. Which all the rebel states did.
Yes, the ‘cornerstone speech‘ by the vice president of the confederacy lays it all out so clearly even a right winger could understand it.
They sure did kill a lot of Yankees though before they ran out of stuff. Any honest historian acknowledges that the Southern soldier was far superior to the Yankees by virtually every metric except for equipment: courage, honor, toughness, smarts, resolve, accuracy and tactics. These days we do have the gear.
its called FOLLOWING orders..not making your own..all of the Generals and secretaries are insubordinate as Hell and should be removed…JFK made that mistake and you see were he ended up..
You meant the war of Northern aggression. You know, the original slave traders.
Instead of teaching history in school now they teach anarchy, so I say F O . Leave shit alone & make your own history, or leave the U S, Jerk off’s.
It’s my understanding that the men so honored we being remembered for the kind of men they were, not for the fact that they were on the wrong side. We should all try and keep in mind that, at the time, there were many good and honorable men who took the wrong side in good faith; their understanding of the issues was warped by the society they grew up in. If we only respect perfect men, then there will be no one to look up to and admire, now or ever.
these military men respected each other at the time…frequently sharing a common bond of military experience or military studies…and that often extended to after the war….
“the kind of men they were, not for the fact that they were on the wrong side.”
They pickEd the side they were on because of the kind of men they were, men who were willing to take up arms against a country and a constitution they sworn an oath to defend, all to support the enslavement of their fellow man in violation of the Constitution’s statement that all men are created equal.
We don’t need to erase them from history, but we should not commemorate their ‘honor and sacrifice’ with statues on the public square.
Remember, that ‘honor and sacrifice‘ involved the killing of good American citizens serving their country, upholding their oath to the Constitution.
When we allow these shameful monuments to stand and the Confederate battle flag to fly, we are dishonoring every Union soldier who fought, bled and died to preserve America.
Nah.
What a well reasoned and insightful rebuttal of my point, well played, sir!
more than you deserve.
You really didn’t read what I said, did you? They thought they were right, their understanding was warped by the times and society they grew up in. You have to put their actions in context of their times and understanding. You can’t expect them to have seen things then as you see them now, that’s unreasonable. They were wrong, yes, but they didn’t know that.
They didn’t know enslaving their fellow human to the point of a gun was wrong?
They didn’t know ripping children from their mothers and fathers and selling them down river was wrong?
That’s total BS, they were just greedy and wanted to steal the fruits of the black people’s labor.
+1
You know full well that they’re going to push for names like “Cooperation Center” and “Joyful Progress.” They’ll never tolerate anything relating to guns because those are next on The List.
The best we can hope to do is sandbag them with dual meaning things like “Eagle Preservation Center” or “Seal Sanctuary” or “Warthog Haven.”
Fort Dead Taliban for the win.
We’re going to lose that war…the only question is when will we allow it to happen…
Sadly true. We lost that war the moment the politicians decided we should “Nation Build”, rather than punish with bombs and then leave.
Afghanistan should remained until the end what it began as – REVENGE. Obliterate the jihadist training camps, kill the leadership. All for 9/11 and other attacks.
Not to build a country where our concepts of civilization were never going to be accepted.
That’s the ticket, bomb them back to the Stone Age!
Oh yeah, Curtis LeMay tried that and it didn’t work out so well.
Turns out, they do Stone Age a lot better than what we do. Funny thing is, they won the war.
Hmmmm, maybe there’s a better way…
How about ‘Fort Courage’ from the F Troop tv show. Then we can all say the locals are the Hekawis. As in where the ‘heck a we’.
We need a “Wrangler Jane War College”.
And a miss kitty Oclub.
All of the bases should be renamed after Pokemon, Super Mario and Spongebob characters. At least that way the whole thing would be treated with the seriousness that it merits.
Of course Paris Island could be renamed “Pedo Island” in “honor” of Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Clinton…
If you had Twitter and tweeted this, President Trump would have retweeted you!
I’ll save the government a bunch of money. Fort Lee is actually named after Spike Lee. And just add a ‘ ahead of the H in Fort ‘Hood, as in “Fort in the ‘Hood”. Take down the RAGG, so it’s Fort B, after Beyonc’e. Fort Stuart is actually named after Jimmy Stuart, actor and WW2 bomber pilot.
You get the idea.
NASCAR was born in the South, so then accept all that comes with that or else get the F out. But the hell with NASCAR anyway; it’s not stock car racing any longer anyway. NASCAR has become way too PC to be of any interest. Their attendance was down even before this; hope this move kills them off for good. Heritage not hate is lost on the liberal buffoons running away from NY. The South has risen again and no flag or false flag BS can change that. Yankees go home. There are solutions and answers to all of your liberal and PC BS; you’re going to learn that it’s not going to fly here.
Oh sure, Lee had some early successes. But when the chips were down, he choked.
The third day of Gettysburg told the tale and put finish to the Civil War.
“On the third day of the Battle of Gettysburg, Confederate General Robert E. Lee’s last attempt at breaking the Union line ends in disastrous failure, bringing the most decisive battle of the American Civil War to an end.”
“On July 3, Lee, having failed on the right and the left, planned an assault on Meade’s center. A 15,000-man strong column under General George Pickett was organized, and Lee ordered a massive bombardment of the Union positions. The 10,000 Federals answered the Confederate artillery onslaught, and for more than an hour the guns raged in the heaviest cannonade of the Civil War. At 3 p.m., Pickett led his force into no-man’s-land and found that Lee’s bombardment had failed. As Pickett’s force attempted to cross the mile distance to Cemetery Ridge, Union artillery blew great holes in their lines. Meanwhile, Yankee infantry flanked the main body of “Pickett’s charge” and began cutting down the Confederates. Only a few hundred Virginians reached the Union line, and within minutes they all were dead, dying, or captured. In less than an hour, more than 7,000 Confederate troops had been killed or wounded.
Both armies, exhausted, held their positions until the night of July 4, when Lee withdrew. The Army of the Potomac was too weak to pursue the Confederates, and Lee led his army out of the North, never to invade it again. The Battle of Gettysburg was the turning point in the Civil War, costing the Union 23,000 killed, wounded, or missing in action. The Confederates suffered some 25,000 casualties. On November 19, 1863, President Lincoln delivered his famous Gettysburg Address during the dedication of a new national cemetery at the site of the Battle of Gettysburg. The Civil War effectively ended with the surrender of General Lee’s Army of Northern Virginia in April 1865.”
We really should pick a hero’s name, may I suggest Frank Meadows. Woody Williams or Dorrie Miller.
BTW, I was born in the Old Dominion in the last century, I know all about the ‘genteel’ old south, bless your heart.
Miner:
You have the above in quotes, but failed to mention a source. Also, the “source” fails to mention that General James Longstreet pleaded with Lee not to order Pickett’s charge, but Lee went ahead with it anyway. After that, Mead COULD have pursued Lee and ended the war, but failed to do so, much to Lincoln’s dismay.
“General James Longstreet pleaded with Lee not to order Pickett’s charge, but Lee went ahead with it anyway.“
I believe that is true, the legend is the longstreet walked away into the woods to cry because he knew that Lee had doomed the army and the Confederacy to failure with his pigheaded insistent on the charge.
Not only did General Lee make a grave tactical error in continuing to charge the union positions after repeated failures, he ignored the advice of one of his most experience commanders.
To be honest, I suspect that subconsciously, he had grown tired of fighting for the south because he knew he wasn’t occupying the moral high ground and he was, at heart, an honorable man.
The doctrine of continuously charging a well fortified enemy position is indeed taught at many levels, and it’s a terrible mistake.
Hey diddle diddle, right up the middle!
We did that repeatedly in Vietnam, with the result being mass casualties.
not convinced you deserve to use the plural possessive there.
AMEN !
Medal of Honor winners, no generals, no politicians, that’s a Navy mistake.
Bravo!
Excellent idea!!!
I awfully partial to naming one. Snowflakes Go Fuck Yourself.
They can always name it after they ruthless dictator Abraham Lincoln..A man he suspended habeas corpus and the constitution, Ordered the quartering of union soldiers, Ordered the burning of homes and crops, Ordered the slaughtering of livestock, And the murders of southern non-Combatant men, children and women (rape too)..
Or you can name it after general Sherman which carried all of this out..
24and7:
The Constitution HAS A provision for the suspension Habeas Corpus in time of insurrection. Lincoln was within his rights from a legal standpoint. Look it up.
You do know that the war criminals are always on the losing side? Take Nuremburg for example…
Charlie Mànson was right
Miner49er says: June 12, 2020 at 15:41
Those Confederate statues are second-place participation trophies for men who committed treason and high crimes against the United States of America.
Robert E Lee was a US Army soldier who violated his oath, took up arms against the United States of America, led other insurrectionists in attacks against the duly elected Republican president of America.
The constitution commands the death penalty for treason, Robert E Lee and the rest of the traitors should’ve been hung.
_____________________________
Miner49er, the loon and babbling buffoon, shows himself for what he really is. Those that have been so unfortunate to have read so many of his ignoramus comments here never had any doubts. Few if any from other lands can or ever will understand the South. Robert E Lee a traitor that should’ve been hung? Why you F’n fool you… Wish I could take you back in time and stand you into one of the lines of men meeting on one of the battlefields of the civil war and then see you take a cannon ball center cut. In comparison to the men of that time you’re a POS. second-place participation trophies? Count the number of dead on each side, in the end, and then try to judge about which side deserved the trophy. If anything, it came down to tactics and strategies on the battlefields as much as anything else. And with what we have become it’s now clear how much better off we would be if the South had prevailed. But in a way, in the fullness of time, the South has won. Power resides in the Red states now; the Northern Blue states and the left coast are bankrupt waste lands.
The lefties all LOVE Tom Hanks. Name the place Fort Nathan Bedford Forrest Gump! For those who just think “Forrest Gump,” look up Nathan Bedford Forrest.
Personally, I think it is an unnecessary exercise in trying to place guilt of our ancestors on the living. But WHAT EVER!
If they must, I say why not name them after notable enlisted solders, airmen, sailors and marines. I think the did well to name Selfridge Air National Guard Base after 1st Lieutenant Thomas E. Selfridge, the first person to be killed in a crash of a powered aircraft.
To start off with (I don’t know all the base names now so some may be use already)
Alvin York
Audie Murphy
Desmond Doss
George A. Davis
James E. Williams
There are a ton of good candidates.
Fort Audie Murphey would be fantastic, as a former BRO Soldier I approve.
If names of bases are going to be changed (which I doubt) would love to see a Fort Patton (for General George S.), Fort Grant (for the Union General and President which I am sure would piss of conservative Southerners as much as Hood and Bragg piss of Northern Liberals but I don’t actually care who’s filing the hurt feelings report) Fort Eisenhower (I like Ike! WWII General and President), Fort Bradley (General Omar), Fort Marshal (George, CoS of the Army, Nobel Peace Prize winner), and Fort MacArthor (General Douglas).
Explain to me why these would not be superior names to those of Confederate Generals?
I am also of the opinion that the Confederacy was a illegitimate/illegal action, Succession can only be had by an Act of Congress or consent of the states, at least as near as I can tell. Likewise the South shot first instead of working through the legal process of making laws and winning the battle of ideas and morality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States#Dubious_legality_of_unilateral_secession
And let the name calling commence: IDGAF.
How about renaming DDG-80 to the USS Carr, after anti-slavery advocate Governor Ralph Carr instead of the rapist slaver it’s currently known for?
RGP says: June 12, 2020 at 18:13 > look up Nathan Bedford Forrest.
___________________
Tennessee, a great Southern state, will never take his name off of anything or allow his statue to be defiled or destroyed by radical idiots and morons.
___________________
Get there first with the most men. Never stand and take a charge… charge them too. Attack in all directions! No damn man kills me and lives.
I am not here to pass civilities or compliments with you, but on other business. I have stood your meanness as long as I intend to. You have played the part of a damned scoundrel, and are a coward, and if you were any part of a man I would slap your jaws and force you to resent it. You may as well not issue any more orders to me, for I will not obey them… and as I say to you that if you ever again try to interfere with me or cross my path it will be at the peril of your life.
I have never on the field of battle sent you where I was unwilling to go myself, nor would I now advise you to a course which I felt myself unwilling to pursue. You have been good soldiers. You can be good citizens. Obey the laws, preserve your honor, and the government to which you have surrendered can afford to be and will be magnanimous.
We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment.
Nathan Bedford Forrest
…and then he formed the KKK.
Not exactly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest#Ku_Klux_Klan_membership
Look at all these rednecks… “heritage not hate” – most you fucken tards can’t trace your lineage beyond your great grandparents.
That said, I am all for “moving on”. But not in a lets tear down the statues kinda way… because statues are ghey anyways. They should just name them Fort 1, Fort 2, then skip to roman numerals like apple, Fort X… Or call them something local, like Fort Carson could be renamed Fort meth… Oh, that’s not on the list?
*Pours gasoline
Also, fuck your rebel flag.
Brave Mr. Internet Man. See you in Cullman, Ala., eunuch.
Fort Chelsea Manning — the perfect name for the modern woke military.
Ft. Hooker after Fighting Joe Hooker. That’s how prostitutes got that name.
I usually learn something reading the comments here lol.
I get what they are saying about these bases being named after Confederate generals, but I also agree with those saying, Where do you draw the line? The Left will NEVER be satisfied. Almost all Greek-Roman public architecture is from cultures that had slavery, militarism, and conquest. Should we knock down the New York Public Library next? The Capitol Building? The White House? Interestingly, our war building, the Pentagon, is based on a historic symbol of peace I believe. All the church architecture because of their oppressions? Should Athens, Georgia be renamed because Athens had slavery and women could not vote, only men, and Athens was a warlike, predatory state.
No shit. American slavery is like 1/18th scale of the slavery that existed before it… Just can’t move forward without bringing up old shit. I’d be all for this stuff if they did it properly, and petitioned it. A calm and cool collection of people with a simple goal… but it’s just people who only see a white man and want it changed. Just like the statue in Philly of Matthias W. Baldwin.
https://imgur.com/gallery/IVEAJpW
I just can’t support stupid movements. If you want to move on, lets move on. But you are not going to do it with slogans like “heritage not hate” on your rebel flag, and you are not going to do it by organizing “peaceful” racist protests and tearing statues down.
The primary issue is not about slavery, it is treason. The confederacy attacked the United States of America, the confederacy was the enemy of the United States of America.
For the people who want them renamed, it is about slavery. They couldn’t care less about treason against the United States Constitution.
The primary issue with you is always race. It’s that inferiority complex and Bell Curve.
Nanashi says: June 12, 2020 at 18:33
How about renaming DDG-80 to the USS Carr, after anti-slavery advocate Governor Ralph Carr instead of the rapist slaver it’s currently known for?
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
USS Roosevelt (DDG-80) is an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer in service with the United States Navy.She is named in honor of both President Franklin D. Roosevelt and his wife, the then-First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt.
Franklin D. Roosevelt even with all of his faults, saved those of his time, and this nation, so that your sorry liberal arse could be here today.
FDR was one of the greatest progressives that ever served America, a true liberal through and through.
He has an interesting name, Roosevelt can be translated as red field or Roth shield.
One is Dutch, one is English and one is French, all the same family roots.
He was a true progressive. He imprisoned Americans simply based on their race.
Well ok then….
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2017/09/06/flashback-fdr-unveiled-robert-e-lee-statue-without-controversy-in-1936/
“….In a short speech, delivered from his automobile, FDR described Lee as “one of the greatest American Christians and one of our greatest American gentlemen.”
The statue unveiling was in Dallas, FDR was a politician who knew how to work a crowd.
Besides, the North had won the war end we should always be magnanimous in victory, no need to excite the rubes by telling them the truth.
So basically FDR lied? Is that what you’re saying?
Your hero is a liar?
“FDR was one of the greatest progressives that ever served America…”
Montana Actual says: June 12, 2020 at 18:57
*Pours gasoline Also, fuck your rebel flag.
_Naw F u MORON. Be good if you would move South. The likes of you don’t last long here.
Nathan Bedford Forrest …and then he formed the KKK.
_You really know your history ehh punk? You don’t know cheit about cheit. You’re the biggest dumb a$$ at TTAG – by far.
Fort Carson could be renamed Fort meth…
_Now meth is no doubt something you DO probably know something about.
____________________
” Abolish the Loyal League and the Ku Klux Klan; let us come together and stand together. ”
Nathan Bedford Forrest
I am from Virginia… you fucken retard.
He was a defeatist. In the last years of his life, he acted like he was never part of the stupid shit he was a part of. The only reason he left is because he lost control. Yea… I know a little history, the parts you chose to leave out, redneck. U mad? Yea… u fucken mad.
Also, you can’t say “no doubt” and then immediately follow it up with doubt by saying “probably”… lol. This is southern education at it’s finest. And for the record, I was stationed at Fort Carson. Lots of meth, you know, the kind your cousin wished she could get instead of the match grade shit you give her for letting you inside her.
There’s already a good one in Shreveport: Fort Humbug! Fort “Nuts!” has nice ring to it too. 🙂
Exactly! But I would include the general himself, General ‘Nuts’ McAuliffe.
He was a true American hero who knew how to lead men in battle. And unlike the confederacy, he fought to free men from racial oppression.
here here!
69er and new guy Montana butt buddies now, lol.
I’ve been here 3 years and had a couple different names, but no, and if you paid attention you would know that. Nice try tho. But TBH, on some comment sections he makes a valid point far more often that people like Grim Reaper, Gadsden, tdiinva, Ron, and whoever else I forgot. Not ashamed to admit I agree with the above comment, even when I disagree with 99% of his other comments. Maybe you should try being rational every now and then. But don’t try to call people out and expect a friendly response, or an ignore. I’d rather call you out or troll you, like I enjoy doing to Grim Reaper. He is so deep into a personal vendetta against me it’s hilarious.
Montana Actual says: June 12, 2020 at 19:40 I am from Virginia… you fucken retard.
_That’s a very blue state now, so you fit right in as just another malandro.
you can’t say “no doubt” and then immediately follow it up with doubt by saying “probably”
_ ‘no doubt something’ is what I wrote; learn to read some day…
U mad? Yea… u fucken mad
_You are too dumb to ever make me angry. Try again. I’ll wait.
, you know, the kind your cousin wished she could get instead of the match grade shit you give her for letting you inside her
_Interbreeding happens more frequently now in impoverished and burnt down blue states. The skank here is good and non related. Even do the skeet thing when I want to.
I expect you do the Alabama Crabdangle thing, except it’s just you and some other boys in your hood.
He was a defeatist. In the last years of his life, he acted like he was never part of the stupid shit he was a part of. The only reason he left is because he lost control.
_Really must be some good crank you’re smoking. You’re one crazy bombaclat.
Camp CUCKED
Fort Woke
Camp Surrender
Fort Social Justice Warrior
Camp Whipped
Fort Yellow Belly
Camp of the Saints
Fort Black Lives Matter
Camp Antifa
Fort Sanctuary
Miner49er says:
June 12, 2020 at 20:07
FDR was one of the greatest progressives that ever served America, a true liberal through and through.
_In comparison to the ultra liberal progressives of today, FDR was conservative. But same like the civil war, you’re way out there in left field with the Actual Montana moron.
He has an interesting name, Roosevelt can be translated as red field or Roth shield.
One is Dutch, one is English and one is French, all the same family roots.
_Because you see him as a great progressive POTUS you even study his name. Nobody gives a rat’s a$$ about it but you.
Man, you are so oblivious to the truth right in front of you.
You dance to the tune called by the Rothchilds and you don’t even know it.
80% illegitimacy.
Miner49er says
BTW, I was born in the Old Dominion in the last century, I know all about the ‘genteel’ old south, bless your heart.
_Born in the land of cotton and yet have no clue about the facts about secession. So much so to even be so shallow to write that RE Lee and others were guilty of treason, and should have been hanged. You’re so wrong and so far out there about secession and the facts about it, as somebody already pointed out, that anything else you try to put forward is reduced to meaningless drivel. And bless your little heart, most do know about Picket’s charge and the rest of it, as what of it. Many thousands died on both sides and so many that the grand total for the entire war does not mean very much.
_This is the blacks are never satisfied thing; the blacks vote for blacks thing; the whitey is always the bad guy thing, and we need to atone for the sins, if any, of those long dead thing. Most of all they took the blacks out of the jungle but can never take the jungle out of the blacks. Study the Chicago situation if you have doubts. It’s a tribal thing and I have lived in Africa so I have seen how it is similar there and here. You’re here to spout the liberal progressive line to no end, but you have really shown what you’re about with this line about all of this in this thread. To try to destroy and erase history to be able to re-write it in a way to fit the liberal agenda has always been a goal of the left.
The primary issue is not about slavery, it is treason. The confederacy attacked the United States of America, the confederacy was the enemy of the United States of America.
_It’s now official. You’re totally clueless. Most any educated history teacher could set you straight. All power to the red states now and the confederate states of america will never really be erased from our great history.
TTAG should ban your racist rants. It’s borderline hate speech. I know plenty of black folk who are not your version of stereotyping. Do you even own guns? Or you just come here because someone shared a post on facebook and you started with the race crap from day 1? Nobody is amused with your existence here for that reason. You contribute the same to this forum as you do to the world: nothing.
Miner49er says:
June 12, 2020 at 21:30
Man, you are so oblivious to the truth right in front of you.
You dance to the tune called by the Rothchilds and you don’t even know it.
_Again you’re so wrong and so off base. I know all about Baron Rothschild, and Salomon Mayer von Rothschild, Vienna, Austria, reputed Grandfather of Adolf Hitler. [your comrade]. Also the illuminati, the Bilderberg Group, the council on foreign relations, the free masons, and more.
_If anybody is a controlled sock puppet and a brain washed, by the left, operator it’s you and some others here. I have read all of your crap here, for a good long time, and for much longer than you can imagine. Similar to swine, all of you libs here are not impressed by precious gems and lipstick does not improve your looks.
“precious gems and lipstick does not improve your look”
I’m not sure exactly what’s going on in your head but it sure is entertaining from out here!
I have to agree… not only does this inbred not know how to use the reply button, or format a reply for that matter, but he’s clearly old, racist, and from facebook where insults are the way to win.
The Stars and Bars was used by most as a banner of “F**k You” to the Federal Government.
Being the flag of the first and only large scale revolt against the Government’s Knee on it’s citizens. Particularly those it disagreed with and was attempting to drive into poverty and famine. Some what exaggerated but at the time it could be argued that that’s what was going on.
It was also a test of whether agreement to unite was a two way street. Turned out that no it wasn’t. Once you give up your freedom to any large polity you can expect that they will maintain their hold on you forever. We’ve seen that all over the world.
Governments never shrink unless they been defeated and are disappearing.
Same with all the Generals names. Since the majority (if not all) were graduates of the Union’s Military schools it seemed at the time to be a memorial for an honorable enemy who lost.
What’s amusing is not that long ago some folks were arguing that the Civil War was not fought about slavery. *snicker* The left can never make up it’s mind. They define their anger and rage as deriving from whatever is convenient to their aims at the time. Inconsistent, irrational and lacking in a firm grasp of reality. If we keep this up we’ll be just as insane as they are. Which is one of the goals.
“honorable”?
There is nothing honorable about enslaving your fellow humans at the point of a gun, working them to death, selling their children down the river, and killing them if they try to escape slavery.
It is a despicable, greed-driven sin against free men everywhere.
The fact that you think taking up arms to defend the enslavement of your fellow humans is ‘honorable is a sad indicator of your moral bankruptcy.
And yet it was the default for most of human history. Be VERY careful with your moral outrage living during the richest point of human history. Economics makes moral outrage possible. Yes, history needs to be looked at using the lens of the present, but ALSO within context of the way the world was at the time. Failure to honor the past will doom your future.
“And yet it was the default for most of human history. Be VERY careful with your moral outrage living during the richest point of human history.”
And the belief that the earth was flat was the default for most of human history as well but once we learned about reality, we discarded that belief. The same goes for slavery, regardless of how long-standing the violation of human rights is, it becomes our duty to put those ways behind us and refuse to celebrate those who took up arms in defense of slavery.
Honor the past? You mean remember.
How far does your historical honor outreach? We talking B.C.? Or you wanna just stop at America?
Being the flag of the first and only large scale revolt against the Government’s Knee on it’s citizens. Particularly those it disagreed with and was attempting to drive into poverty and famine. Some what exaggerated but at the time it could be argued that that’s what was going on.
– – How ironic that the Confederacy was all about keeping their knees on the slaves, who they claimed weren’t even people, just property. No one was driving the South into poverty and famine. The South did that by inciting war. It was bad enough that white men in the South were better represented in numbers in the House of Representatives than white men in the North due to counting slaves as 3/5ths.
It was also a test of whether agreement to unite was a two way street. Turned out that no it wasn’t. Once you give up your freedom to any large polity you can expect that they will maintain their hold on you forever. We’ve seen that all over the world.
– -The Constitution has no exit clause because otherwise it wouldn’t even be a government. Every time someone disagreed with something, they would leave in a huff. You can’t have a country like that because it really isn’t a country.
Governments never shrink unless they been defeated and are disappearing.
Same with all the Generals names. Since the majority (if not all) were graduates of the Union’s Military schools it seemed at the time to be a memorial for an honorable enemy who lost.
–You don’t memorialize anyone who fought against the U.S. Army. No sane country does that!
What’s amusing is not that long ago some folks were arguing that the Civil War was not fought about slavery. *snicker* The left can never make up it’s mind. They define their anger and rage as deriving from whatever is convenient to their aims at the time. Inconsistent, irrational and lacking in a firm grasp of reality. If we keep this up we’ll be just as insane as they are. Which is one of the goals.
— No less than Maj. Gen. John B. Gordon, CSA, in his “Reminiscences Of The Civil War,” stated that without slavery there would have been no Civil War. It was always about slavery in the South. The Union fought initially to keep the Union together and the abolition of slavery later became a goal.
Yeah I’ve got a suggestion: go suck-start a shotgun retard
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
George Orwell, 1984
Agree. Not a fan of the Confederacy, but this is about a separate agenda. He who controls the present controls the past. He who controls the past controls the future.
I’m surprised nobody offered “Fort Glock”.
I’ve been patiently waiting to see other posters heckle them.
For being ghey? Or not realising Glocks are Austrian? Or both.
The Air Force named many of its bases after USASF/USAF Medal of Honor recipients. Although many of those based were closed during numerous BRAC actions, the reasoning is sound… The Navy names many of their ships after Naval heroes. Seems a reasonable solution, but I understand the history/sentimentality to soldiers who were at one time stationed at these Forts…
*USAAF/USAF
I’m feel certain the Left would be cool with Fort Stoner.
I know plenty of right leaning people who want legalization. I mean… you can buy cigs, beer and everything in between… who TF cares about pot?
Lighten up, it’s a joke.
I realize that. Just sayin. Didn’t mean to come off insulted or anything.
To repeat my earlier post for your entertainment:
Joint Base Stoner – High Point…
Forts are named after a general who resided or was born in the state where the fort is.
Yea… might as well name them after Pokemon.
What’s next…Tearing down Washington and Jefferson memorials because they both owned slaves? Scrap Constitution because it was written and signed by a lot of white men that owned slaves? Never ending.
Yes, M. Henning, there is no end in sight (even with binoculars) as we descend down this slippery slope.
Sorry, Washington and Jefferson helped FOUND the United States. They weren’t fighting for slavery; they were fighting for freedom from tyrannical Great Britain.
Confederate Generals did their best to RIP APART the United States. They were fighting for slavery, without which there would never have been a Civil War.
If you can’t understand the difference, consult history.
Having spent time at both Bragg and Benning and not knowing the origin of the names, I just wonder how many Americans actually knew that they (and others) were named after Confederate generals. My guess, as a native Georgian, not many, except for leftists looking to attack anything not agreeing with their philosophy.
America is the ONLY country stupid enough to name US Army bases after those who fought AGAINST the US Army! That should never have happened in the first place. It is indefensible and always was.
Copy paste from my reply above removing my color commentary and sticking to the subject of possible new names:
Fort Audie Murphey would be fantastic, as a former BRO Soldier I approve.
If names of bases are going to be changed (which I doubt) would love to see a Fort Patton (for General George S.), Fort Grant (for the Union General and President which I am sure would piss of conservative Southerners as much as Hood and Bragg piss of Northern Liberals but I don’t actually care who’s filing the hurt feelings report) Fort Eisenhower (I like Ike! WWII General and President), Fort Bradley (General Omar), Fort Marshal (George, CoS of the Army, Nobel Peace Prize winner), and Fort MacArthor (General Douglas).
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