Is there any good reason why teachers, administrators and school staff shouldn’t be allowed to exercise their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms within school grounds? Is there any good reason they shouldn’t be encouraged to do so? I can think of ten reasons why [legal] gun owners should be “allowed” to carry in school: “In this case, 10 students lost their lives before the gunman was tackled by other students and arrested. Several other students were wounded and needed immediate attention.” As TTAG proved during our school shooting simulation, a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun in a school environment regardless of the good guy’s training level. What more do parents need to know? [h/t CM]
There’ll be a river of blood in the hallways! Millions of children will die because the teachers will go postal and kill everybody, or an angry student will steal their gun and shoot everybody!
Nope, we can’t risk it. It’d be irresponsible.
Dirty gun-lovers anyhow.
/sarc
nahh. Its much simpler than that- its about the money, and I mean the unions protecting the officers and teachers pay and job security.
See, if you let “civilians” do the cops job for them, then why pay for extra cops? Never mind that most school districts dont have the money already for the schools resource officers they once had, when that federal money for the program went away, and even the richest districts could never afford to have a uniformed officer standing around at $15oK+/yr EACH* for just one at each elementary, middle, and high school. Thats a doubling of the police force, in some mid-sized towns. (* benefits, plus pensions in net present value of discounted future cash flow streams as if added to annual salary)
but just imagine the real scary problem to the unions, and senior burnouts in the teachers ranks- having a few teachers show initiative and do more than average, for free- whats the world coming to!
Next thing you know there will be results oriented pay, and younger motivated teachers might actually have an edge over those with seniority.
Whats the point of having union bloodsucking ticks representing the burnouts and skimming teachers pay if you cant control seniority and work rules?
Vetted staff and volunteers are a part of the solution. Drills like these can be helpfull also. It takes a village to raise a child. It also takes a village to protect a child.
“If it takes a village to raise a child, then it also takes a village to protect a child.”
I’m thinking new anti-gun control ad campaign here.
My permission freely given.
+1 Nicely put, jwm.
Common sense (among many things) is something the antigun crowd seem to universally lack.
Which is hilarious, considering their go-to phrase, “common sense gun control.”
“Is there any good reason why teachers, administrators and school staff shouldn’t be allowed to exercise their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms within school grounds? Is there any good reason they shouldn’t be encouraged to do so? I can think of ten reasons why [legal] gun owners should be “allowed” to carry in school: “In this case, 10 students lost their lives before the gunman was tackled by other students and arrested.”
C’MON. Their reason trumps ours: “Because if we did that, civilian (I mean ‘civilian’) disarmament would be exposed as a fraud! This is about neutralizing your resistance, NOT about “protecting the children”, who we view as expendable pawns in our game.”
And YOU guys bought that it was “all about saving the children”!! HAW! That’s a GOOD one!!!!
William, isn’t your position that all mass shootings are ‘false flags’ perpetrated by the government? Why would you care if teachers are armed or not if there aren’t any real school shootings?
Check the sideways gangsta grip on that Glock at 1:34.
Is S.W.A.T. recruiting from the hood now?
SOP so they can see the sights thru the shield window.
I can think of a reason: if the rate of fatal firearm accidents from staff carrying at school is higher than the number of fatalities from intentional shootings they prevent. Both are expected to be rare events, but school shootings are really, really rare. There is no zero-risk option. You have to take your best estimate of the numbers and take your chances. Sometimes you’ll guess wrong. Sometimes you’ll guess right and the body count will still not be zero.
If you’re going to have an “accident” (i.e.; if you can’t resist showing off your gun, fondling it, practicing your quick draw in the mirror, etc.), you shouldn’t carry. Countless concealed carriers understand that.
I know. That’s why accidents are rare events. However, they do happen. It’s almost impossible to do the cost/benefit analysis of very rare events on an intuitive level – you need numbers. I could try to work one up myself sometime, but it could take a while. The incidence of school shootings is pretty easy to come by, as is the incidence of accidental shooting deaths. The hard part is parsing them according to circumstances so you can get a reasonable estimate of the expected incidence for each under conditions comparable to the school environment (or particular school environments).
Excellent!
If I have said it once, I have said it a thousand times. A gun that stays in a properly fitting holster that covers the trigger will never, NEVER, NEVER discharge, period.
Want to avoid accidental discharges in schools? Mandate that handguns carried into schools are in properly fitting holsters that cover the trigger. (In other words no handguns carried loosely in pockets, purses, briefcases, backpacks, etc.)
And for the morons who cannot resist showing off their guns, fondling them, or practicing their quick draw in the mirror as Rokurota so eloquently described, defining “accidental discharges” as a felony should provide the necessary incentive to keep their hands off their handguns while in schools.
As for children finding a teacher’s, staff’s, or parent’s handgun, one simple solution is for people to keep their handguns strapped to their bodies rather than floating around (in a property fitting holster that covers the trigger) in a purse, brief case, backpack, etc. A trigger lock — when the owner keeps the key on their person — could also be a good solution if someone cannot conceal a handgun strapped to their body. Yes, a trigger lock and key would increase response time about 5 to 10 seconds. That is still several orders of magnitude better than waiting 10 to 20 MINUTES for police to arrive and would enable most people to seriously reduce the number of casualties that would result if there is no armed resistance on site.
I don’t think you’re properly appreciating just how rare school shootings are. “If” you’re going to have an accident you “shouldn’t” carry? If a gun stays in a properly fitted holster? That’s way too many contingencies for you to start bandying about the word “never.”
Yes, we should expect accidents to be rare. However, school shootings are also rare – extremely so. The human brain is notoriously bad at evaluating cost/benefit tradeoffs for very rare events on an intuitive basis. You really need numbers. I haven’t yet had the chance to run them myself, but until I do I won’t dismiss either option.
DaveL,
What I proposed will absolutely guarantee zero accidents and thus zero accidental injuries/deaths — mandating that all handguns carried into schools are in a properly fitting holster that covers the trigger and strapped to the owner’s body OR stored in a container (purse, brief case, backpack, etc.) with a trigger lock and the key on the owner’s body.
There are only two reasons why someone would violate that standard and possibly change the real world accidental injury/death toll from zero: ignorance or willful disobedience. Worrying about those two factors is irrational because:
(a) In order for people to cause an accident through ignorance, the people who now go to schools unarmed — because they are informed and know that current law criminalizes carry in schools — would have to be informed enough to learn that the law changed to decriminalize carry into schools, but miss the part of the law that mandated a standard of safe carry/storage. This is a contradiction. Somehow you trust these types of people to be informed and follow the law now but you don’t trust these types of people to be informed and follow the law if it changes.
(b) As for willfully disobedient people, they already ignore current laws and carry in any manner they desire now no matter how dangerous that manner of carry to students. Willfully disobedient people would not follow any new laws either. Thus new laws will not change what these people do, and hence the desired outcome of keeping accidental injuries/deaths at zero.
So why not decriminalize safe carry into schools? That reduces the probability of a lunatic choosing schools because they would no longer be soft targets. And it reduces the response time to get armed good guys on site shooting back at a lunatic to just about zero — and we know that reduces injuries and deaths.
My guess is that the accidents you’re describing are pretty rare too. I don’t know if there’s data out there that analyzes fatal gun accidents, or gun accidents in general, but my guess is most of them involve negligent behavior, alcohol and/or completely inexperienced handlers. With proper training, a concealed at all times policy, and perhaps a no round in the chamber policy my guess is accidents could be kept at zero.
My guess is that the accidents you’re describing are pretty rare too. I don’t know if there’s data out there that analyzes fatal gun accidents, or gun accidents in general, but my guess is most of them involve negligent behavior, alcohol and/or completely inexperienced handlers. With proper training, a concealed at all times policy, and perhaps a no round in the chamber policy my guess is accidents could be kept at zero.
I think I recall reading that there are somethings like 20,000+ schools that authorize concealed carry and have been doing it for years. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of an accident like you suggest happening. I would be interested in seeing data if you have it.
Well, that would change things. I was thinking I was going to have to estimate a risk of accidents by trying to match accident statistics from comparable circumstances . Do you have a source for the +20,000 figure?
If they have armed teachers, that means there will be a lot less mass school shootings and almost none will make national news…and the Democrats don’t want to lose those opportunities to infringe on our rights…their priorities are clear…
If this was a test, they failed miserably. I wouldn’t be proud of that. A cursory exam shows:
1. A deputy WALKING to a school shooting.
2. Responders standing around in a group even though they know exactly where the shooter is located. I guess they were waiting for instructions instead of engaging the shooter.
3. No one was performing first aid on the downed student.
4. They wait to evacuate because there is a “suspicious” person hiding. Of course they are hiding; somebody is shooting people. Change the route!
5. No one even tried to engage the hijacker even though he was in plain sight the whole time. He was completely vulnerable to anyone with a rifle.
6. Fast roping!!! Give me a break.
It sort of reminds me of the SWAT officer in the Reno, NV PD who was killed practicing HALO jumps with the SEALs out at Fallon. WTF? When is any police officer going to launch out the back end of a C-130 in the middle of the night and do a low-opening chute jump?
This just reinforces my judgement that far too many police today are “operator wanna-be’s” and they’re not interested in actually doing their jobs. This is part of why they’re so hip to kick in doors and shoot dogs.
I can see the mindset of the SWAT operator wanna-be’s now: There’s someone on the egress path, it has foliage blocking their view… so they’re going to put in a request for a Super Cobra so they can strafe the exit corridor with 20mm and rockets.
These people are too stupid to allow near children.
More importantly, virtually all of the law enforcement that would show up to such an event have no “skin in the game”. On the other hand an armed staff member or parent on site has a lot more than just “skin in the game”.
whooo! +1. thats gonna leave a mark.
A friend of mine is now a teacher at the high school we went to. He was on the rifle team in college and has a CWP. There are also two former military and one former police officer that teach there too. He said they sit and talk about how ridiculous it is that they can’t carry and protect the students.
Wow.
So that’s how they justify the cost of a helicopter…
Not all school shooters are deranged paranoid schizophrenics. Some are Chechin terrorists. I’m sure that any potential school shooter who watched this report for planning purposes will sharpen his game as a result.
It all makes sense when you view the HUGE increase in SSRI drugged children, the increase in school shootings, The massive drive to disarm America and the seeming distain for those who would actually take a Pro-Active step towards stopping the violence
As Sibelius just proved; Nothing is done for the children
Everything is done to generate chaos, poverty, Mal-educated and medicated children.
Look at the Big Picture
Well at least the students and staff knew that the activity was a practice drill — verses other events where no one (other than the guys dressed in black uniforms) knew there was a practice drill.
Hot damn!!!! We done got to go out and play with all our new toys!
Reminds me of the old duck and cover drills: last step kiss your assume goodbye
Reminds me of the old duck and cover drills: last step kiss your ass goodbye. Hope is not a plan.
This is too wild. Can we just give responsible and qualified school staff members the opportunity to carry and protect their students instead of planning on the sheriffs delta force to drop in by helicopter to raid the school… seriously, which one do you think is more practical and likely to save lives a deter a mass shooting on a school campus.
I wish I could say all schools in WA state do drills like this and are prepared… but the ugly truth is that since Sandy Hook, most schools have done NOTHING but formed committees and pushed a couple extra piles of paperwork of “emergency plans” that nobody checks, let alone practices.
God help us educators if another shooter comes, because we’re still only allowed to protect ourselves with books and office supplies.
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