Clarence Thomas laugh
(AP Photo/Cliff Owen)

Most of the litigation challenging criminal gun laws is spearheaded by public defenders, not gun-rights groups, on behalf of indigent defendants.

Within 48 hours after the Bruen decision, Lex Coleman, a federal public defender in West Virginia, was on the phone with clients, including Randy Price, an Ohio man caught possessing a pistol with an obliterated serial number in violation of federal law.

Coleman told Price they needed to file motions contesting the constitutionality of the charges against him. “The world has changed, and we need to go for this and see what happens,” he said he told Price. 

He got the indictment on that charge overturned after prosecutors struggled to identify a historical statute similar to the prohibition on unmarked guns. “We’re being forced under this decision to look back in time…quite frankly I find it really hard,” prosecutor Negar Kordestani told the judge.

In dismissing the gun charge, the judge found it “undisputed that serial numbers were not required, or even in common use, in 1791.”

— Jacob Gershman in Why America’s Gun Laws Are in Chaos

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

81 COMMENTS

  1. Ironically they would likely be the best funded group going after unconditional gun laws.

  2. “ Jacob Gershman in Why America’s Gun Laws Are in Chaos”

    Two reasons:
    1- Socialists want it that way.
    Chaos and confusion are their calling cards. Redirects attention away from the reality of the more ominous changes that are occurring (ie- death of liberty by a 1000 cuts).
    2- By creating chaos and confusion in law (to a widespread degree), you create frustration & unrest. As a bonus, the prosecutors for, and purveyors of, illegal doctrines get to use house money (government spending) and all monies fighting against these illegal doctrines must be sourced from private coffers.

    • Just Sayin (OG),

      I agree 1000%.

      I will add number 3- A significant number of the ruling class get their jollies humiliating the masses and causing chaos and suffering among the masses.

      I will also add number 4- the more chaos and suffering there is, the more that the masses will agree to give up liberties and their human dignity in exchange for promises of government solutions. Of course this last factor dramatically accelerates Soci-alist efforts.

      • commonbozo…You described me as a one trick pony and I took that line of crap and shoved it back down your piehole…Read it and weep.

        • Delusions is right.

          It’s to be expected, it has to be difficult waking up in the morning, looking in the bathroom mirror, and realizing whatever few charms you had are forever gone… 🙂

  3. looks like yet another good start….it’ll be interesting to see if this case is appealed or allowed to let stand

  4. “We’re being forced under this decision to look back in time…quite frankly I find it really hard,” prosecutor Negar Kordestani told the judge.

    Awwww. That Prosecutor’s job is really hard now. Poor, poor Prosecutor.

    Cry me a river.

    Welcome to the real world where work can be “really hard” at times.

    • And what really pi$$es me off the most: the overarching purpose of the courts and the justice system is to advance … wait for it … JUSTICE.

      Blindly enforcing laws which are unjust is, well, UNJUST and the courts and Prosecutors have a moral and ethical obligation to refuse to enforce them. Sadly, that is almost guaranteed to never happen.

      • The entire issue is that Democrats aren’t for justice. They’re for [insert adjective] justice. They’re also not for the truth. And they’re certainly not for America. The reason we’re in this position is because the right wing gave up on using the power of the state to instill the proper values in citizens. They were (and are) just focused on taxes and the military. What do you think filled that void? We need to make sure people believe in the same thing the old Superman believed in: Truth, Justice, and the American way.

      • I’ve been involved in several court cases over my lifetime, both as Plaintiff and Defendant. I’ve won nearly every time. And every time, the notion of “justice” was never discussed. For the attorneys, it was about how much money they could wring out of the process for themselves, and for the Prosecutors it was always about their resumés and their future candidacies for higher positions.

        Never, ever about justice. Our courts are a sham.

        • “I’ve been involved in several court cases over my lifetime, both as Plaintiff and Defendant. I’ve won nearly every time. And every time, the notion of “justice” was never discussed.”

          “Justice” is meted out only when a decision benefits me; only when a law benefits me, only when I get my way. Anything else is a travesty of justice.

          “The Law” is about “the law”, nothing more. “The law” is about waging war on one’s opponents, by means other than armed combat; a projection of power.

        • In civil litigation, cases rarely go to trial (both due to cost and the unavailability of court rooms due to the glut of criminal cases that go first) but are settled or dismissed before then. There is an old saw about settlements that is probably true: if plaintiff thinks he did not get enough and defendant thinks he paid too much, it is probably a fair deal. Since we cannot know what “true justice” is, that is as good as it gets.

        • I worked in courts for over 20 years and I totally agree. I finally quite a high paying occupation because I just couldn’t stand to be a part of it any more.

    • “…I find it really hard…”

      You Sorosians have it so hard. Sweating to find law that will allow you to prosecute the ones your leftist masters want charged, while sweating to keep the real criminals on the street in spite of good law. Maybe a change of vocation?

  5. This story highlights an ugly fact about our laws and our criminal-justice system: both are inclined to pursue whatever is “fashionable” or profitable instead of what is just and right.

    Here is the sad reality: a legislature could pass a law making it illegal to wear a red shirt (claiming that signifies that the wearer is participating in a conspiracy to [fill in the blank]) and an alarming number of law enforcement officers, Prosecutors, and Judges would try to enforce it.

    • This kind of “Conservative Extremism” talk is why Fitch downgraded the U.S. rating to an AA+. Uncommon_sense, do you want to cause the next recession ?

      • Better a recession, than socialist rule. Recessions blow over, just like a storm, given time. Once socialism is established, it’s there to stay, just like a cancer.

      • You apparently have no understanding of civics or economics. The credit rating was downgraded because of the likelihood of default on the debt from destruction of the economy due to Bidenomics and upcoming budget negotiations predicted to take a long time

    • “instead of what is just and right”

      That is what happens when you discard objective morality.

  6. The Bruen decision really proved how incompetent and depraved the Trumpite Jackbooted Supreme Court really is. We live in the 21st Century which the greed monger corrupt Founders could never even envisioned, weapons of mass destruction i.e. the assault rifle. If the Founders were alive today they would be the first to totally outlaw them because the Founders were power mad dictators that did not even allow the common people the right to vote.

    And I have already went into many times why 2A was written as vaguely as possible and it had zero to do with the individual’s right to bear arms rather it was a carrot to entice the states to join the Federal Government by letting them have their own murderous armies to torture and kill slaves.

      • He knows. A rifle is a weapon of mass destruction? Pure BS. And he and miner are the real fascists here. Pushing for the restriction of human and civil rights.

        Nuremberg 2.0. We will not forget or forgive.

      • Really. The colonies had already created a national government under the Articles of Confederation, but that form of government failed largely due to balance of powers issues. Essentially the colonies/states did not want a powerful central government any more than they wanted a King and Parliament ruling over them. The Constitution changed that balance, and one could say that the first ten amendments were intended as express limitations on the power of the federal government, limitations that have only gradually been incorporated against state governments under the 14th Amendment.

    • darcydodo…In your tiny sneaky mind you are using the AR-15 to make it apples and oranges. It clearly becomes oranges and oranges and apples and apples when factoring in patriots using musket Black Powder to make IEDs.

    • @dacian

      “And I have already went into many times why 2A was written as vaguely as possible and it had zero to do with the individual’s right to bear arms rather it was a carrot to entice the states to join the Federal Government by letting them have their own murderous armies to torture and kill slaves.”

      And just as many times you have been absolutely wrong and just as false as you are now for everything you write.

    • The 2nd Amendment: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

      There is nothing vague about that and it has everything to do with the people’s right to bear arms.
      However, dacian your scribblings are nonsensical and neither relate to or have any bearing relative to the issues being discussed. Perhaps a study of the history of gun control as it relates to Racism and Genocide would be appropriate. Gun control is clearly reflected in history as a means to control the freed slaves and NOT every citizen in the country. Regardless of what you may think about Debbie W., she is correct when making these observations. Besides “gun control” is a modern term and more correctly applied to marksmanship.

    • With this view of the world it makes me wonder how much time he has spent recently out of the basement, if not out of the closet with the new Pr0gressive fads.

    • Fascinating. All the replies to this “dacian” comment clearly assume it was posted by the real dacian. Really? Are you sure it wasn’t the work of the parody dacian? I think you’ve all been hoodwinked, taken in, and gulled.

      • Problem is the fake Dacian perfected the style, tone, word choice, and grammar/spelling errors of the original to the point where it exceeds how well the Vlad Tepes clone posters were doing a few years ago that led to that rage quit.

    • Yet the “BRITISH SUBJECT” still trying to dictate to Citizens of the United States of America!!!

      Who would gladly and wantingly to only be speaking two Global languages, German or Japanese!!!

    • “torture and kill slaves” does not a productive workforce make.

      Know better before typing.

  7. “Bruen” established that 2A infringements are constitutional, if it can be established that a historical (back to 1791) infringement existed. Essentially, Bruen solidified that no provision in the constitution is absolute, and some of the constitutional constraints on government can be lifted by simple legislation (“tradition and history”).

    “Bruen” simply atomized the Second Amendment, creating even more cockroaches to be eradicated. When legislators are predominantly lawyers, a natural, and unavoidable conflict-of-interest exists.

    • Sam I Am,

      I have heard some people characterize the U.S. Constitution as a simple legal document creating a legal trust. And that legal trust defines how the administrators of that trust (government) will carry out that trust for its benefactors (We the People).

      I personally think that is an outstanding view. And if that view is correct, then we have to understand/interpret that legal document according to how the authors wrote it. And that means understanding/interpreting it as the authors would have–according to the definitions and norms of that time. In other words we have to read and understand the U.S. Constitution (which includes the Amendments) according to the History and tradition when the authors wrote it.

      Note that all legal documents–no matter how much time and care the authors put into them–will never be bullet-proof (pun intended). Ultimately, the success or failure of a legal arrangement boils down to the integrity of the parties of that legal arrangement. Our U.S. Constitution is no different.

      • I think you just made the case for the secession movement of the 1850s/1860s. It was a reaction to use of simple national legislation to avoid a constitutional issue, avoid amending the constitution.

        The secessionists got too full of themselves, and bypassed the US Supreme Court; creating a separate nation. In all likelihood, neither “side” was willing to put the matter before the courts, so they ended up in the court of last resort: combat.

      • “I have heard some people characterize the U.S. Constitution as a simple legal document creating a legal trust.”

        It was a contract, a legally-binding contract between a government and the people.

        There’s a funny thing about contracts, when you sign one, you want it to mean EXACTLY what is said at the time you signed it, forever into the future. Not what someone wishes it said when they woke up that morning. (AKA, a ‘Living Constitution).

        Like any good contract, it contains a clear severance clause about breaking that contract… 🙁

  8. And before one-trick-pony Debbie chimes in:

    A very large number/percentage of our population today enthusiastically supports racism and genocide. The only difference today: quite often the target group is a function of the target group’s politics rather than their ethnic/genetic heritage.

    Human nature never changes–and that includes tribalism. There will ALWAYS be large numbers of people who will arbitrarily define “others” and support exploiting, suppressing, or even eliminating “others”. That is a simple fact.

    Since the masses still embrace tribalism (e.g. racism and genocide), the masses still support gun control since it enables them to carry out their tribalism. Blabbing about gun control as an outgrowth of tribalism will likely increase support for gun control, not decrease it.

    Instead, let’s apply the K.I.S.S. principle. Everyone has a Natural and God-given right to life and therefore effective self-defense. And the most universal and effective self-defense method is having and being able to use firearms in righteous self-defense. Period. Full stop. Keep history out of that simple truth. Keep tribalism out of that simple truth.

    The only wiggle room left in that simple truth which I outlined above is whether or not we actually have a right to life. Of course there are hoards of people who will once again apply tribalism and tell “others” that they do NOT have a right to life. Let THAT speak for itself. And let that be our impetus for keeping and bearing arms.

    • RE: commonbozo…”Blabbing about gun control as an outgrowth of tribalism will likely increase support for gun control, not decrease it.”

      Are you trying to tell this forum if the public is educated about the History of Gun Control they are going to embrace it even more? Why praytell isn’t shannon watts et al giving Gun Control History Lessons?

      What you just said is like saying if the public sees a noose on TV they are going to go tribal and embrace Lynching. You know it is the exact opposite reaction so why all the effort to make a complete and total jackazz imbecile out of yourself?

      Furthermore…Trying to label me as a one trick pony shows what an a-hole you are and shows you jump to conclusions without have read my many posts on assembling from stripped receivers the AR-15, M1A, AR-308, etc. One of my FFLs ask me everytime I see him…When are you going to start building ARs for us?…Do any of yours do that?

      Those who fall for Gun Control circles back to clowns like you who keep them in the dark about what History Confirms Gun Control to be.

      I can see Racism and Genocide are just words to you. Picture your ivory tower punkazz sitting in a row of Holocaust victims pooping in a trough or picture yourself as a lampshade on the furher’s desk before using Racism and Genocide as something you can just toss around with no respect for those who lived it.

      I strongly suggest you take up knitting immediately.

      • BTW…commonbozo…Here’s something a one trick wiseazz like you and your ilk can try…Take a sow’s ear Ncstar AR A2 shorty style rear sight and turn it into a silk purse by converting it to a Trijicon 2 dot flip sight. Of course you’ll have disassemble the entire sight and you’ll need find a USGI A2 windage screw and you’ll have to enlarge the screw pin hole for securing the Ncstar windage wheel. And you’ll have to precisely fabricate a small sight tower guide pin so the tower remains aligned during elevation i.e. match style, that requires drilling and tapping the tower base to accomodate the small precisely fabricated guide pin. And you’ll need to relocate the access for installing the elevation wheel spring and bearing to the bottom of the housing and precisely drill and tap an access to accept a tiny 2mm hex drive screw to plug the access…I started you out on an import because my money says you would screw up a Colt handle.

        Nonetheless when you and your like minded pals can take a sows ear and make a silk purse out of it I might have some respect…Hop to it grasshopper.

        • So much useless dialogue to say he is correct in his assignment of you. Between the rants and useless time wasting hoops you want others to jump through I am starting to believe you are a gun control supporter trying to play “hello fellow gun owners”. Oh well fun watching you come apart at the seems either way now say something stupid for my entertainment.

      • Dacie, you really are a crazed anti-American fanatic. The War For Independence STARTED and fought over GUN CONTROL (among other things) by the murderous tyrant George III, king of England. The Northern states disapproved of slavery and went along with it to keep the Southern states in the coalition.. facts.
        I’ve read enuff of your lying fascist scribblings. Bye!

      • Debbie W.,

        Correct, I failed to acknowledge that you do occasionally talk about hardware or some other topic. In terms of defending our right to keep and bear arms, however, you fit the description of a one-trick-pony quite well.

        Having said that, I stand behind my arguments that:
        1 — tribalism is human nature
        2 — human nature does not change
        3 — tribalism thus still drives a LOT of people in our nation
        4 — those tribalists want to exploit, suppress, and/or eliminate “others”
        5 — those tribalists want gun control so it is easier to exploit, suppress, and/or eliminate “others”
        6 — and telling those tribalists that gun control was a favored way of exploiting, suppressing, and/or eliminating “others” in the past will not dissuade them from enthusiastically supporting gun control

        Furthermore, although I did not state it outright, I heavily implied in my previous comments that a LOT of people in our nation are quite comfortable with exploiting, suppressing, and/or eliminating “others”. Said people have no reservations seeing nooses as long as those nooses are on “others”.

        But don’t take my word for it. Review the countless sources where True Believer Pro-gre$$ive Democrats call “others” words like “deplorables” and tout how they are all-too-happy to use storm troopers as well as conventional and even nuclear armaments to kill-off “others”.

        Last comment: save the vitriol and childish name calling. If you don’t agree with someone’s analysis or claim, share facts with them and engage in civil dialogue. (For reference, I did not apply the “one-trick pony” moniker to you because I disagree with your claims or analyses, I called you that because of your unwarranted name calling and vitriol that you level at anyone who fails to immediately and enthusiastically agree with you.)

  9. Leave it to the left to aggressively prosecute the poor, helpless and minorities in order to make a point. There’s evil and there’s that special kind of evil that only exists on the left.

  10. I would argue that Heller and Bruin clarified US gun laws that were being trampled. Not any more! I read the Wall Street Journal for financial news just like Barrons, but I subscribe to Barrons because they stick to financial news for the most part. They also still produce high quality bird cage paper when I am done reading!

    • The WSJ usually is a solid step above the NYT, but not that article…

  11. Local communities need to protect themselves from federal and local law enforcement that insist on violating their oaths to the constitution by performing such acts as illegal searches and seizures and overstepping the bounds of legally issued warrants. Furthermore, since the Supreme Court considers it illegal to enter a person’s home without a valid warrant, all Red Flag laws are unconstitutional because due process is omitted. Communities need to start forming their own Home Guard Self Defense organizations to protect themselves and their neighbors from unconstitutional acts. When law enforcement attempts to serve an illegal warrant or violates the Constitution residents should challenge those things as a group and demand either proof or the legal basis for a complaint. You can no longer let your neighbors stand alone on these things as they will slowly pick you apart one by one. You don’t need 20 armed agents when you are dealing with issues involving law abiding citizens. We can still be civil regarding how we deal with one another.

  13. I do not understand the (entertaining) flame-war between Debbie W (whom I respect) and other (whom I also respect) on this forum.

    Does gun- control have a racist origin?
    Inarguable.

    Has gun-control also been used for general social and political control?
    Inarguable.

    What is the argument?

    • debs gets pissy with anyone, even attorneys, LKB, who are actually fighting court cases pro gun, if they do not mimic her every word.

      It is her opinion and you are not allowed one of your own.

      • “It is her opinion and you are not allowed one of your own.”

        It’s a bit more nuanced than that.

        According to her, you must acknowledge the racist roots of gun control.

        Deborah, do you not understand that is *EXACTLY* what the Fascist Left is doing right now when they insist you bow to them and parrot their bogus claim of ‘Systemic Racism’?.

        That makes you no different than than the ‘black lives matter’ jerkoffs…

    • “What is the argument?”

      “The argument” is that repeating the same mantra of racism will, or will not change minds, change behavior, change political alliances, actually result in the ending of gun control simply because it was born in racism, and even the leftists/communists do not want to be publicly supporting racism.

      Identifying abortion as directly spawned from eugenics of a blatant racist (ethnic cleansing) has not deterred the leftists/communists from sponsoring, supporting, spreading abortion. Connections to racism for leftists/communists are not a source of embarrassment.

        • “Tried pointing that out a few different ways no I am just enjoying the show.”

          I avoid “the show” directly. A question was posed about “the show”, the “argument”. It was not a rebuttal to anything Deb posted, so I could avoid direct involvement in “the argument”.

        • You will watch it on the cam
          You will see the rants and verbal spam
          The words create a logic jam
          There is no avoiding the show Sam I Am

      • To Sam the Sham

        quote———Connections to racism for leftists/communists are not a source of embarrassment.———quote

        You really live in a fantasy world all your own. Racism is the star poster boy of the Far Right. They mouth everything Hitler ever said or believed in.

        On the other hand we Socialist Americans have been fighting you racist far right stormtroopers on every front including the latest which is an all out racist war against LGBT people and of course making sex slaves of Women with anti-abortion laws. And I might also mention your never ending all out race war against even LEGAL immigrants and refugees. Trump reduced LEGAL immigration to the lowest levels in decades and he is the “living god” of the Far Right Stormtroopers.

  14. @Void
    “There is no avoiding the show Sam I Am””

    I am a frequent deleter, with a list of “never again” screen names to ignore. OTOH, I fully subscribe to the life view, “You can’t win, you can’t break even, you can’t quite the game”.

    • May as well enjoy it and the occasional autocorrect almost correct errors. Seriously though the lack of humor in petty tyrants is a godsend.

  15. I think a couple of things are seldom discussed. Every group that ever came to this country has been discriminated against and even today we deal with human trafficking which is comparable to being a slave and perhaps worse in many respects. No one seems to acknowledge publicly that many of the slaves brought to this continent were captured in intertribal warfare and sold to the European traders who in turn sold them. Native American Indians did the same thing to each other as the white man did to them. They displaced each other from prime lands and hunting grounds, made slaves of captives, and killed each other in the quest for possession and power. This stuff has been going on since the beginning of mankind, big fish eats little fish. Do I think this is right, no I do not. But when people beat something to death day in and day out as an excuse to get something they did not earn to me that is a totally different story. Many of the complainers are the people who have actually made it in this society. Oh and by the way, I am a 77-year-old white man with 6 black cousins, two Chinese cousins, and a grandson who is South Korean. So before you call me a racist you might want to consider that. I call things the way I see them and the constant portrayal of most white people as racists is bunk.

    • Won’t get into a point-by-point discussion, but anyone who wants others to demonstrate accountability, reliability, personal responsibility, common courtesy, is dumb, guilty of white privilege, general unfairness, insensitivity, compassion, and is overall evil, wicked, mean, bad, and nasty.

      And, did I say “dumb”?

  16. The chaos has been laws so poorly written that it can be difficult to know if you are following them, but to the left that is a feature not a bug.

  17. I burst out laughing reading this story. This is just wonderful.
    This is how you reduce the number of people being locked up in america.
    And it only shows that the people who are so concerned about prison and jail overcrowding.
    Are just liars.

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