“We have around 600 Facebook members from rural New York who are affected by the New York gun ban,” Phil Burns told TTAG in the SHOT Show press room. “They’re liberty-minded, self-reliant. They have firearms [that hold more than seven rounds] and Cuomo wants them and they’re not likely to give them over happily.” So what happens if the local SWAT team comes calling?  . . .

The man behind American Preppers Network reckons “It’s gonna be bad. Preppers, like all Americans, have the right to defend themselves and their property against Constitutional infringement.” Reading between the lines and projecting my own concerns, I reckon it’s only a matter of time before the New York gun ban blows up WACO style.

That said . . .

Dan and I met a couple of LEOs in the elevator yesterday. My elevator query: would you confiscate firearms? “I’d shoot my lieutenant for treason,” the cop said without a moment’s hesitation. “My lieutenant said ‘if the order came down from above, I’d have to follow it.’ And I said ‘Then I’ll have to shoot you.”

I hate to say it: but this shit is getting real.

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111 COMMENTS

  1. This is a multi post so skip if you’ve read elsware, otherwise, just sayn’

    I have a standard when it comes to congressional action that they should ask themselves.
    That is “Are we in the middle of a wild eyed McCarthy Era moment?”
    The president’s question is, “Is what I just signed as bad as the abuse of power Nixon used surrounding Watergate?”
    For the Sepreme court: “Are we about to rule very stupidly on Dred Scott’s case?”
    Answer so far, Naaaah.
    Maybe some hope yet from the Supremes.

    • I wouldn’t put too much stock in anything a cop says to a non-cop, especially in public, especially in front of another cop. He was probably just giving an expedient answer to get you to leave him alone, or if he was speaking from the heart he’d likely change his tune when the time comes. He was probably hoping that you’d say something even stupider than what he said so he could find a reason to arrest you. Don’t trust the police, you have NOTHING to gain by confiding in them and everything to lose.

  3. The supremes could end this real quick.
    The danger from a thug or a madman may pale compared to resistance to enforcement.
    If just one life could be saved!

  4. If/When a national gun grab comes you will see the beginnings of a civil war. States like TX, KY, ID, MT,ND\SD and others simply will refuse to enforce these types of laws. Some will even arrest or get into shootouts with feds who are in town to enforce such laws. If they work together they can win in many ways. If they take the “Texas against the world” approach it wont end well. Regardless the countdown has begun, how long till these unconstitutional laws lead to bloodshed?

    • We already are refusing, we have bills making the rounds now saying we assert our 10th amendment rights to void and nullify any laws affecting the second amendment. South Dakota is open for business to those who hate paying more than their fair share (SD has no income tax).

  5. Political grandstanding. Lawyers will make a mint fighting it. Politicians look like they are doing something. Law gets overturned, unenforceable, or ignored. Yada yada yada.

    • Yes, but that takes years, sometimes very many.

      Because the root issue of people violence is not being addressed by anyone, another horrible shooting will absolutely occur. And it will start all over again.

      Anti’s will take any single click of the ratchet they can get. Right now, deep inside, their hoping for another slaughter. Evil bastards.

  6. In my time in the service Nixon was loosing his hold on the white house and would be replaced by Ford. In the lead up to his resignation things took a weird turn. Nixon may have been a little unbalanced and he was for sure drinking heavy. We started getting strange, erratic alerts that had nothing to do with events outside Conus. More than 1 a day at times.

    We started to get nervous and rumors started to circulate. In the barracks word was that a possible coup could be tried to keep Nixon in office. He was very popular with the military. All of this was nervous rumor and for all I know that’s all it was.

    But the majority of us came to the conclusion that if we were ordered out against the American people we would take our weapons and go over the hill. After all, we had been raised in America, not the Hitler Youth and our families were out there amongst the towns and cities of America.

    Fortunately, non of this came to pass. But like your cops in the elevator the talk was happening in all the units I knew about.

    • I was in Europe in the same time frame one night we were rousted, fell in and marched to the arms room, drew our weapons, including bayonets then trucked to a ammo bunker where we were issued pre-loaded 20 round mags and 2 grenades each. I was shaking in my boots, thinking that TSHHTF. we sat in our trucks for six hours, then we did everything in reverse and ended-up back at the barracks. No explaination

  7. I think only a hand full of people would risk their life and freedom (imprisonment) for the sake of their human rights.

    The most dangerous people are the ones that follow orders. Well at least they are a danger to the good people of this world. Those kinds of people are great/not dangerous for dictators — as we can see in other countries as we speak.

    • Correct. Public schools government indoctrination centers teach kids that the greatest virtue is obedience and the worst evil is disobedience.

      Remember the New Orleans troops going door to door? Remember that goon who tackled that frail old grandma?

      I hope it will be different this time, I really do, but I have my doubts.

    • A handful is all it takes. If you’re seriously asking yourself, at what point will you take a stand, and you don’t know the answer, the answer is “never”.

    • Read the book “On Killing”- Most troops don’t openly disobey military orders, they just shoot well above the enemy target, unless they have to kill to protect their brothers-in-arms.

      • That’s very true as far as it goes WC. But check on civil wars. The death rate and atrocity rate goes thru the roof when brothers take the gloves off and get serious about the fighting. Women, children. Nothings off limits in a civil war. It’s terrifying, but if you have enough people that feel they’re backed into a corner that’s what happens.

        I will fight for my and my families rights. I just hope the courts and the pols can solve this issue without it getting to that point.

  8. I’m in the National Guard and from talking to all of the NON Commissioned Officers and Enlisted in my Unit I can assure you non of us would follow that ulwaful order. Now, I can’t speak for the officers, their breed is disconnected from reality, not all of them but still. Just look at McChrystal and his point of view.
    Also almost half of my unit is composed of cops

      • I do have to say, the local law enforcement agencies that train using our facilities have some of the most High speed shit i ve seen. Including anti armor vehicles, multi cam uniforms, mk19 like grenade launchers, plate carriers and ACH helmets. And more pouches than delta and devgru combined. I agree that swat teams and other specialized police units are becoming more and more militarized. I mean they have better gear than my infantry unit. And we deployed, more than once.

      • “Terrorists”, meaning “domestic terrorists”, meaning: citizens fighting for their rights usurped by the assholes who call themselves “government”.

    • Funny, because the US military has never had a problem grabbing guns before such as during the Johnson County War or Harlan County War. They didnt have a problem launching airstrikes against striking miners in WV in 1921, or attacking WW1 veterans with tanks in 1932.

      • Let’s see, who would I rather have on my side against an overreaching government. Cops and soldiers who think their duty is to the people and not the g. Or matt, our resident proud racist and anarchist.

        What do you bring to the table in an event like that, other than a wicked fast wiki link? I know who I’ll welcome to the fight.

      • Rapid, net communication and phone cameras are one reason why it will not go the same way as the Bonus Army. I hope nobody tries to draw a siege and instead goes guerilla. I can easily imagine Upstate New York functioning like Northern Ireland if the feds get involved in support of anything other than brokering a constitutional peace.

        • I’ll put on the tinfoil hat for this one… The “net” would be gone within minutes in any “problem” area… Warfare 101, make your enemy blind, and deaf…and the Air Force just opened multiple cyber warfare centers, including the single largest of it’s kind….in the middle of no where. All comm would be down, radio, TV, phones would not exist in that area anymore, if they could get someone to flip the switches…they can’t.

        • I’ll jump on the TFH with this too – the .gov can easily make the cellular networks and internet infrastructure stop functioning if they want.

          • Command, control, and communications (C3) will be the first targets, then utilities (electricity, gas, water, phones, cable, Dish), then agriculture (harvesting, processing, distribution), then manufacturing, production and shipping (import/export). Some machine shops and garages will be turned into weapons manufacturing and all hell will break loose. A national shutdown, but it cannot last long, as the government has no money without taxation on labor.

            • I have been informed by a reliable source that DHS has also planned to shut down amateur radio repeaters. Not much they do about repeaters on private property though.

              • Do not support Monsanto’s hijacking of our food supply. If they hold the patent on the majority of basic food crops, we are at their mercy. From wikipedia: “over 90% of maize (Mon 832), soybean (MON-Ø4Ø32-6), cotton, sugar beet, and canola planted in the United States are glyphosate-resistant, as described in the GM crops article. Monsanto has also developed a Roundup Ready wheat (MON 71800). ” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto

                Grow or buy non- GM foods, so that we will continue to have food that is not controlled by Monsanto.

                Solar panels are good insurance in case the SHTF, in addition to their everyday use of reducing energy bills.

  10. American Prepper’s Network?

    Is that some sort of list of all the people who will have stuff worth taking after SHTF?

  11. I agree, the SHITZ JUST GOT REAL!
    I have said it before folks, if enough cops die, yes sad I know, but if enough do, who is going to throw out the law, not Cuomo. He will project his anger on everyone but himself. The Police Unions will hold his hand and make him rescind the law. It is a sad state of affairs we live in. It will also be his last term in office.

    • If it gets that ugly and it goes as you say Jim, then Cuomo should go to jail along with all the Senators that voted this stupid law in.

  12. Waco was a small group of people against three government agencies with full resources. A mere 1000 people all over the country would strain resources to the breaking point, especially if they lacked full support of the public.

    They really should stop and think about the consequences before, as a country, we cross a line.

    • Before you draw too many parallels to Waco, keep in mind that the Feds were told to handle that one gently. Sure, it did not work out so well, but any time they wanted to go in they could have.

      In the case of a Civil War action (which is how it would be viewed), the Feds will go in fast and hard. The mission will be to brutally suppress the first few actions so that the word gets around that this is a bad idea.

      The reality is that we have to hope that enough police, soldiers, and courageous local officials are willing to stand with those who want to resist. Ultimately, this will need to be resolved with words, not guns. Anything else is a bloodbath on the part of the revolutionaries.

      • Precisely!

        They would make horrifying examples of the first few to make damn sure that no one, or at least only the completely hard headed, would dare make a stand after the examples of dissidence were trampled.

        Thankfully, my county Sheriff is one such hard headed individual.

        • People that would fight aren’t worried about dying, they’re concerned about fighting for what they believe in.

  13. Understand this: there are police officers and then there are police administrators. I can guarantee that at least 90% of the cops on the street will NOT enforce a law that violates the constitution. Meanwhile police administrators like Chicago’s chief will talk political smack and make cops look bad.

    • “I can guarantee that at least 90% of the cops on the street will NOT enforce a law that violates the constitution.”

      What do you base that assertion on?

      Cops violate our rights every day.

      • +1. Cops every day violate the human rights of peaceful people who don’t hurt or threaten anyone in the name on the war on certain plant material. They blindly obey immoral laws that do nothing but harm people.

    • They grab guns every day, where in 2A does it say a felon cant have a gun? How about a subject of a restraining order? The cops dont give two shits about the constitution.

    • Well, more than 10% of the Cops in New Orleans did just that when they started confiscating guns. I would not count on things if they get ugly. At that point, most police officers will be looking to their supervisors for orders and will likely do some highly non-Constitutionally approved things

  14. It is a coincidence, but at the library today I just by chance happened to run across a book about the DC snipers. Imagine what 600 newly minted “criminals” could do to their oppressors…

  15. If a majority of Military/LE tell the political elite to FOAD if told to confiscate firearms I wouldn’t be surprised if our criminal government used foreign troops. The fact that Russian Spetsnaz have been training on Amerikan soil should give one pause.

    • On the plus side, that will make it our clear and present duty to oppose foreign troops operating on US soil. No moral ambiguity there — but on the other hand, this has to be one of the craziest visions of the future I’ve read all day.

      US Gov using Spetznaz teams to disarm private citizens? Really?

        • The reason why Afghans totally dominate all super-powers that try to conquer them is because they aren’t military soldiers, they aren’t fighting for some asshole seargent. They’re fighting for their own homes and families. They’re literally fighting to the death. They will never give up.

          Military soldiers from another country are just doing their jobs and eventually see the futility and quit inside.

    • So what your saying is that we’ve officially come full-circle: Washington crosses the Delaware to face Hessian mercs employed by the British to enforce George III’s tyrannical policy. 237 years later Obama employs UN troops to enforce unconstitutional policy. After all, if Obama signs the UN Gun Ban in March what better way to enforce it than with the beloved “peacekeepers”?

  16. I’ve listened to several people say “political grandstanding” and “this won’t come to anything”. I’ve also heard the “quiet conversations” in corners and I have to say that this one feels different. It seems like there are a good number of folks out there who don’t seem to understand that, ultimately, this is one of those cultural things where Americans are just plain different and there are some lines that you simply do not cross.

    • Re: quiet conversations

      I’ve noticed that some of the people I’m used to hearing talk almost a continuous stream of trash talk have gone quiet. I’m not thinking it’s because they’ve seen the light and switched sides.

      • Agreed. The people around me are tiptoeing, and they are usually glad to fight me on it. I have a few of my friends who don’t buy into the whole guns thing starting some dark human rights conversations with me. I feel a bad wind coming and I’m actually worried for once in my life.

      • Matt, are you talking about vociferous pro-2A types who have gone suspiciously quiet, or are you talking about disarmament advocates?

  17. Well, this post is quite sobering. Ruby Ridge was another unpunished horrific crime by the “state” that comes to mind. NY is going to have a hell of a time sweeping those beautiful mountains out. And don’t think the rest of the state is like the metrosexuals in the city, they are as American as it gets. Mario did a lousy job grooming his son for leadership, hope he’s proud.

  18. If the cops are discussing the issue (and a random elevator conversation with a cop is a pretty good indicator the issue is being discussed amongst the guys in blue) then things are very serious.

    • Remember, these were cops at Shot Show. Possibly a different breed. A lot of cops don’t know shit about guns.

      • Bob, if even 10% of cops refuse to have anything to do with confiscating weapons, it will create manpower problems.

        I think more than a few cops will outright refuse an order to seize weapons, simply because they prefer to go home at night.

        • The police exist by the willingness of citizens to be peaceful. When gun confiscations begin then the manure hits the rotary oscillator. I’ll bet you cops are stockpiling food, water, ammo, and TP in their stations.

    • Very true Blake. I wonder what is being said in the barracks? Strange times we live in. Wonder what will set it off?

      • jwm, I wonder how many cops now think the government has effectively put a target on their backs? Especially NY cops?

        Passing a law that makes criminals of law abiding citizens tends to put people in a corner. Cops know this and are not really going to want to deal with a problem that did not exist until Cuomo created it.

        • Again,very true. Hopefully cooler heads will win out and the courts will slap most if not all of this garbage down. Ballot box, jury box, soap box and only if all else fails, cartridge box.

      • I know whats being said in the barracks of the 101st Airborne. The King is not going to be happy.

  19. At anytime the sheriff can form a posse.
    At anytime the governor, as Commander in Chief of the State militia, may draft men age 18-45, accept woman volunteers age 18-45, and accept any volunteers over age 45.
    Should you have a right to buy weapons equal to your county sheriff under the 2nd Amendment?

    • Any weapon the police can have is also good for any citizen. If I can’t own an AR or a high cap mag the cops should not be able too.

  20. that said- 1775 it took only one shot , and to this date we do know who fired it. We are setting on a power keg . Sparks???? Hope some sane people are left!

  21. After citizens who possess “dangerous” banned firearms and magazines are fully demonized by the administration and their lackeys the press, damn few police or military will give up their careers to protect these “domestic terrorists”.

    I tend to think enforcement of any ban will be more like the drug laws are enforced. Go after the easy targets, make a big splash when politically advantageous. Some unlucky individuals get made examples of.

    • The size of the gun collection equals the priority for confiscation. He who has the most guns can expect the most cops to come knocking.

    • You’re right. Like Alcohol in the Prohibition. Some kids grew up looking at those mobsters as cool, but slap on the label Domestic Terrorist. No kid in America would like to emulate that label….
      This is the first time I actually feel something bad around the corner. Like the unsure times I felt when I was in high school right after 9/11, that nothing would be the same again.

      • After 9/11 I expected secure borders and immigration enforcement, under martial law if needed. Three years later the Minutemen formed and proposed a citizen’s border watch, and in 2005, I learned about SaveOurState. Questioning the legality of these movements led me to read the 1776 Declaration of Independence, 1781 Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union (First US “Constitution”), 1787 US Constitution and the Bill of Rights a few times. What I learned while attending protest rallies and city council meetings in Southern California, including a few nights at the border, was PRICELESS! I witnessed first hand evidence of the results of decades of government failures to protect our sovereignty and liberty.
        Too much to go into now. The TEA Party was lame on the streets, but a force in political influence and the voting booth.

  22. Bought a firearm from an FFL? Get a gun enthusiast magazine sent to your home ever two months? Read TTAG? DVR shows about nazi’s and preppers? Have an American Flag waving outside your house on days other than the official “flag holidays?”

    The algorithmic formulas has already been built. If TARGET can ‘out’ a pregnant teen to her parents before they know (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/) simply on her shopping choices, chances are the government already has you on a list.

    Molon Labe

  25. “I hate to say it: but this shit is getting real”

    I hope you are wrong. I am concerned that certain politicians are so arrogant and living removed from the common people they cannot see the line in the sand that must never be crossed.

  26. No way some piggy is gonna tell me (while standing on MY doorstep) I cant have 15 rounds of 40 in my G22 (the most popular handgun in pigland USA…including the feds) while they themselves have the same rig on their sides.
    Seven effing rounds in NY is INSANE when confronted with guetto banger hoards.
    POP POP POP…..POP POP POP….and the seventh round for you (or the loved one you value more than yourself).

    • Do you truly want to threaten the loved ones, who are non-combatants, of those who might be coming to your door?

      I think you need to take a step back and review your statements.

      I know this is a tumultuous time in our nation but we’re speaking of neighbors and members of our community and you’re going to save the 7th round for “the loved one you value more than yourself”?

      The people who MIGHT come to your door are the same people who put their lives on the line to protect your ass as best they can each and every day.

      Have some respect please and let’s not threaten their family.

      • You dont get what I said. I was stating that seven rounds wont do dick against (guetto banger hoards), and the POP POP POP…POP POP POP was the first six rounds fired towards those same guetto bangers. The seventh (and last) round was for either myself or a loved one (so they would not have to endure the butt-rape, torture, etc….).
        I hope that cleared up my meaning.
        I leave the killing of the pigs (cops) going door to door to confiscate guns and mags (and thus destroying the republic) to other patriots (assuming people were being killed first by the dirty, filthy pigs).

      • I seem to recall stories out of the former Yugoslavia where the cops turned into tyrants, tortured, raped, robbed and killed their neighbors. The past decade of US involvements in foreign wars give an accurate playbook on insurgency. All is fair in love and war and civil war is anything but civil. The USA hasn’t seen revolution or civil war for over 100 years, but statistically I’d say we are long overdue.

        • Yup. Libtards cant imagine this. Future tyrannical gov, a civil disaster, rioting, etc….
          History shows examples, yet the left think ‘Big Gov’ will be there for them when it counts (just like they were 20 minutes late for those poor kids at the school).

  27. “War means fighting, and fighting means killing.” Nathan Bedford Forrest once said that.

    It’s one thing to say: “I’d shoot my lieutenant for treason,” or to say, “Then I’ll have to shoot you.”

    It’s another thing to shoot that same guy when you know he has a wife and kid at home, and that he has dreams and feelings just like you do.

    I don’t know how serious those LEOs were in the elevator who made that comment, but it is scary to say the least. I’d rather see a massive stand-down by law enforcement/military on this issue. Anything besides lead flying in multiple directions…

    • -It’s another thing to shoot that same guy when you know he has a wife and kid at home, and that he has dreams and feelings just like you do. –

      So did German soldiers.

  29. Wow, I am reading some of the comments, and thought I would offer this. If and only if this despotism gets as bad as events in history, learn from history. Don’t fight this like it is Custer’s last stand, fight this like the Resistance from WWII. Be smart about it. Oh, and make absolutely certain the level of despotism has reached that collective tipping point first or else it will fail with unintended consequences.

    • Insurrection 101 – be prepared to implement better leaders, judges and politicians after the fighting stops. If that can’t be done, don’t start fighting.

  30. Here’s the thing. They don’t need to go door to door once all guns are registered. All they have to do is send a letter telling you to turn your heaters in or face arrest. If you do not comply in the given time period, a warrant is issued. But they do not come to your house to serve it. They put it into the LE computers and let it sit. Next time you get “talked to” by police, for speeding, jaywalking, whatever, the warrant pops up and you get arrested. THEN they go to your house with an additional warrant and seize all your shit. No shots fired, cause you’re already in the clink. And noone has to violate their oaths.

    Yes, that’s some seriously convoluted crazy talk, but it fits right in to the gun grabbers “long term” style of thinking. While they never hesitate to pounce and make their brand of progress wherever possible, they also know how to be patient and take what they can when they can.

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