Peter Vogt's Facebook page (courtesy facebook.com)

TTAG and some of our fellow gun bloggers recently ID’ed the nascent American Rifle + Pistol Association as a false flag operation (a pro-gun control group masquerading as a pro-gun group). This did not please R+P founder Peter Vogt. The self-confessed MAIG (Mayors Against Illegal Guns) and Moms Demand Action supporter responded to the criticism by interviewing himself on his own blog, playing both good cop and bad cop. Without a trace of irony, Vogt disses the medium he’s using to defend himself.  To wit: “Without baseless accusations, malignant cynicism, and malicious speculation, all garnished with a generous measure of cyber-bullying thrown in from self-appointed all-wise bloggers camped out in their mothers’ basements typing away with Cheetos-stained fingers, half of what’s posted on the Internet would disappear.” And just in case we don’t disappear . . .

We all knew that in stepping into any public arena, there will always be the detractors, the naysayers, and the gadflies. If anyone ever truly libeled or slandered us, as an organization or personally, we have the very best lawyers our honestly-gotten gains can buy on speed-dial, who understand actionable situations, and can expeditiously do what they do best.

You might call Mr. Vogt a hypocritical prick for asking gun owners to come together and sing Kumbaya while threatening his online detractors with legal action, but I couldn’t possibly comment. Meanwhile, Mr. Vogt has pulled down his Facebook page. What does that tell you?

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103 COMMENTS

    • The stupid libtards (democrats) are squirming for traction while farting in the elevators and blaming others.

      • The stupid civilian disarmament proponents are squirming for traction while farting in the elevators and blaming others.

        Fixed it for you Pat. Let’s try to stay focused here.

        • Oh no, he had it just fine to start. The democrat party was long ago high-jacked by leftists and statists. If it bothers you to have them called out for what they are then stop voting democrat. Be part of the solution not part of the problem spacecoaster.

  2. What an arrogant f**k wad. He might want to use some of his “honestly-gotten gains” to call his attorney on “speed-dial” so that said attorney can explain to him that as a newly minted “public figure,” he is pretty much fair game for criticism.

    • Perhaps he should look up this obscure case called New York Times Co. V Sullivan.

  3. And in Texas of all places, that just tells you the guy is an idiot. It will never catch on.

    • Oh come now. Being an idiot is all the rage nowadays. It’s caught on quite well.

    • Not Texas….Austin. There’s a difference. Austin is in TX but much less of TX is in Austin.

  4. I read way too much news, but to be honest, outside of TTAG, I have heard no mention of this group.

    • Yeah, this is basically the only place I’ve seen mention of it. Although I did get an email alert from buckeye firearms about them too. So it seems that there are quite a few people in the loop because buckeye firearms is usually a little slow with the news.

      • Thank you Rich. . . I’m a buckeye and didn’t know about the group you mentioned until. . . well you mentioned it. Checking them out now.

  5. AstroTurf might look like grass at a distance at first glance if you squint into the sun while hungover. But even an idiot knows its fake.

  6. Mother’s Basements? Cheetoos-stained fingers? So the usual, stereotyping jack-ass insults that usually get thrown at gamers and other geek/nerd types coming from a self-identified techie? You, sir, can GFY.

  7. Let me say First Amendment. You said exactly what needed to be said. Let the Games Begin.

    • The 1st Amendment doesn’t always apply once someone calls someone else out. Westboro Baptist Church is an example. They say that “fags” or “gays” are going to Hell and ruining America, but they don’t mention specific individuals or organizations. If they did mention a specific name and organization, like RF and TTAG is doing, they could be sued for libel and slander if the comments are unproven.

  8. Baseless accusations? Malicious speculation?
    Something tells me those at American R+P have no idea
    that ordinary people are capable of doing basic research.

    On another note, if cyber-bullying were to disappear
    from the internet; Mr. Vogts statement concerning his
    detractors would quickly be erased in a poof of irony.

  9. Out of curiosity went to his page, this was the first article i found:(re: high cap mags)

    “Any ammunition limitation should be based upon established best-practice evidenced by what is in common use for law enforcement. Limitations on the number of rounds of ammunition loaded into magazines have no historical basis in fact for preventing mass casualty events. Furthermore, there are many examples easily cited for the proper need and use of high-capacity ammunition capability. For example, while it may be true that it doesn’t take more than ten rounds to kill a deer, that may not be true for an angry bear charging from the brush. Or it may not be true concerning fending off a pack of hungry wolves, coyotes, or feral hogs.

    High capacity magazines might also make the difference between life and death in the case of multiple home invaders, mob riots, gang attacks, or looters following a national disaster when regular law enforcement and first responders are not available. Simply stated, if the experts in law enforcement believe that a particular size magazine or caliber or type of ammunition is a best-practice to be used in dealing with the threats they routinely face, then that’s a good enough reason for a citizen to be similarly armed when potentially facing those very same threats.”

    ?

    sounds reasonable to me no?

    • I am the only arbiter of what I “need”. If John Law is happy with 30 rounds of .223 at a time, God bless him. If I want 40, 60, 90, 100, or even belt-fed, it’s between me and my bank account and no one else.

    • Replace “high capacity magazines” with “fully automatic weapons” and you’ve removed any justification for closing the machine gun registry. Still, this smacks of a false flag op…

    • TO: All
      RE: A Reminder

      The Second Amendment is not about duck hunting.

      Regards,

      Chuck(le)
      [FIrearms are second only to the Constitution in importance. They are the peoples’ liberty’s teeth. — George Washington]

        • Well….

          ….if he didn’t say it, he would have if he’d thought of it.

          P.S. Never heard of guncite.com. So I don’t have a good understanding of the accuracy and reliability.

          I say this with the understanding that there are a LOT of sites out there attempting to discredit conservative information. And they are very clever about it too.

          Maybe, if I looked hard enough, I could find a site that attempts to discredit Edeard Gibbon’s comment about….

          A martial nobility and an armed commons, possessed of weapon….is the only defense against an schemes of an enterprising prince.

        • ERRATUM: That quote from Gibbon should read….

          A martial nobility and an armed commons, possessed of PROPERTY…..is the only defense against the schemes of an enterprising prince.

    • “Any ammunition limitation should be based…” tells you all you need to know. All the supposedly pro “hi cap” mag arguments are just cover. The first sentence establishes that they do not, in principle, disgree with cap limits. They’re ready to argue what those limits should be, rather than rejecting the concept of limits outright.

  10. At the risk of flames, I’m keeping an open mind. That said I haven’t ponied up any money to them. Would rather give to TTAG.

    Where’s that donate button anyway? I clicked all the sponsor links in TTAG at least.

    • Between the NRA, GOA, SAF and a few local pro 2A orgs, I think I have it pretty much covered. They don’t appear to be an organization. They appear to be a web site that’s collecting dues. Anybody can do that.

    • Wait. You’re AFRAID of “flames”? For making a milquetoast statement?

      Go grab some Maalox.

      Are you sure you’re mature enough to own guns?

  11. Their facebook page is very much active. How the hell did they get over 11,000 members already?

    • Bots. Sock puppets. Services that will give you a specified number of followers/friends/likes for a price.

      • Probably, since the data on those likes shows them as coming mostly from L.A, suggesting that they simply bought a service or set up a bot to constantly click “Like” on their page over and over again without bothering to disguise where the bot/service actually was.

        That and the fact that their being torn apart in the comments with every post they make. Seems between TTAG, AmmoLand, and the PagunBlog, word of their founder’s MAIG ties were well known on FB before they could do anything.

  12. It’s not just TTAG that smells a rat. There are gun powder-stained fingers typing away in various gun forums calling it as they see it, as well.

  14. Gadflies? Forsooth…’tis a low blow indeed.

    Nice work busting these chumps right out of the gate…

  15. I just went over to the R+P page and now you can’t even comment any more, or maybe they’ve just banned me, lol. However, every post is still calling them out as fakers and BS artist. I love it!!! It was TTAG that brought my attention to it first. Thanks guys!!

    • Nice indeed. Really good work. I wasn’t even aware they existed, and within a couple minutes, you found me some more dirty rats….

  16. The Bill of Rights, aka The First 10 Amendments, were written with the specific intent that all power stems from the people, and not the government. There are numerous historical quotes proving this. Attempts to change the Bill of Rights are therefore attempts by the government to seize power from the people. I find this repugnant and possibly treasonous. NSA can kiss my asterisk if they don’t like what I say!

  17. So I am well stocked on 22, 223/556, 9mm and 380…but dammit I forgot the Cheetos. Anybody want to help a brother out?

    • I’ll buy you a lifetime supply of Cheetohs, if you can replace the 900 rounds of SS-109 I somehow left behind in NM with I had to move back.

      The move? Complicated. Leaving three sealed packs of NATO-spec 5.56 behind? UNFORGIVABLE.

      A CASE of Cheetohs a MONTH for LIFE!!!

      • TO: William Burke
        RE: Say What!?!??!

        You left all that ammo behind in a move?

        And earlier you’re harranging NWGlocker about HIS ‘maturity to own a gun’?

        Get a grip on a good mirror and turn it on yourself!

        Regards,

        Chuck(le)
        [The Truth will out….even in the form of self-confession.]

  18. In politics this tactic is referred to as “astroturfing” meaning fake grass roots. It seems to be used most frequently by liberal groups pushing extreme agendas that don’t have much local citizen, i.e. grass roots support. For some reason that is not completely clear to me right wing groups don’t seem to engage in this tactic. At least I have not seen a right wing group do “astroturfing”.

    • Because right-wingers tend to be a little more honest. More precisely, right-wingers are typically trying to hold the line on common-sense, rather than advancing some new agenda which requires agitprop in order to seem credible.

      • “Because right-wingers tend to be a little more honest”

        BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

        I think we have found today’s “Armed Intelligentsia” award winner!

    • “At least I have not seen a right wing group do “astroturfing””

      Well I guess if you don’t even have the small amount of intellect necessary to search google for something so basic then you never will see one. How pathetic.

  20. Oh good Lord. This guy sees all the money flowing into all the gun rights organizations over the last 8 months and just wants a piece of the pie. For profit folks, as in dollars for Peter.

    • If they’re all Silicon Valley owner/manager types, they’re all about the venture capital. Same stuff, different business, different benefactors.

  22. Everyone give thoughtful insight posts to MAIG and MomsDemand FB pages. If anything, it will be fun.

  25. “cyber-bullying”

    Jumping on THAT bandwagon are we? You fit right in with MDA and MAIG. My opinion of you and your thoroughly duplicitous organization has been confirmed.

  26. I just read his auto-interview and I have to say he sounds a lot more like the ‘mom’s basement’ stereotype than anything I’ve heard of in ages. The internet hurt his feelings (and his bottom line) and now he needs to cry to the same source, pathetic.

  29. So he didn’t know Bloomberg wasn’t just against “illegal” guns but all guns. I’m not sure which is worse, lying or being ignorant.

  31. Wait, I thought we gun nuts were supposed to be a bunch of backwoods hillbilly rednecks, but this guy says we’re a bunch of cheeto-munching computer dweebs. I’m confused, which negative stereotype am I supposed to be?

  32. You might call Mr. Vogt a hypocritical prick

    I prefer to think of him as an addle-pated, scvm-sucking two bit motherless wh0re of a lying two-faced hypocritical pr1ck. But that’s just me.

    And if he would like to sue me, I’m ready. The life of a retired lawyer is too boring anyway.

  33. Attacking the political opposition’s character by labeling them as being “camped out in their mother’s basement” is the typical left-wing SOP. The Men’s Movement gets that labeling all the time from the feminists who don’t want anyone pointing out their fallacious claims about gender issues.

  34. Why so much vitriol? So much foaming at the mouth here recently. This is supposed to be for the armed intelligentsia. How about more intelligent argument, presentation of factual information, maybe less abuse.

    Folks: Calm the f— down. Please.

    It is o700 here in La Belle France. I am going to the range to seek zen…

      • Really man, you just took it there? Rather than thinking of witty remarks against each other lets continue to find evidence ( hard to come by these days) that R&P is a fraud group that serves no ones interest.

  35. My comment in the other thread was: “I’ll be watching with almost-interest to see if this goes anywhere.”

    I have now downgraded almost-interest to faux interest.

  37. can’ take criticism in words then you sure as hell will cowardly back out in action…

  38. Lets back up for a second.
    What is an illegal gun?
    I guess they are guns that are illegal.
    So does he want some guns to be illegal, all guns?
    Are the guns that are in the possession of prohibited person, illegal.
    It only just dawned on me that MAIG is not only against illegal guns but wants to add as many as they can to the illegal list so that they can be against them too.
    I’m not sure that it means they are against criminal actions using guns. I’m sure they want us and the public to assume that but wow, if we could make all guns legal, then they would cease to exist. Well folks, let get to work!

    • Illegal is such a harsh characterization, let’s call them undocumented, but waiting to come out of the shadows and be legalized by amnesty.

  39. sounds to me like one of those Obama OFA groups trying to turn Texas purple.


    And when any group, like MAIG, starts only focusing on the ineffective ways, like with imposing onerous restrictions on law-abiding gun owners, then they lose my support. Which they did.


    i sm still waiting to hear which specific restrictions Giffords, Kelley, Vogt, et al think are onerous.

  40. While it may not be very popular here, I like hearing from voices more moderate than mine. I see nothing treasonous about people arguing for tougher access to guns if it only applies to criminals and the mentally ill if that is as far as it goes. The problem is this guy seems tailor-made to slip in amongst us and backs people who could not be more anti-Second Amendment.
    Then you have him throwing a tantrum when people call him on it and stereotyping everyone on the other side. (A tip to my liberal AND conservative friends, stereotyping people you don’t know is only done by weak-minded fools too stupid to form a real argument)
    Now, I’m just waiting for him to wise up and throw in the towel.

    • The problem with arguing for tougher access to guns for “criminals and mentally ill” is that if that’s all they(grabbers and antis) were really going for and still actually wanted to protect law abiding gun owners then they would work to find a good compromise with gun owners and leave it at that. But, instead they have obvious desires for greater control and or total removal of guns from society. Any greater restrictions(like Manchin Toomey)inherently affect us by either making it more costly or complicated to own a gun, and are part of the greater overall plan and one of their many tools to remove guns from society. I could accept something like Manchin Toomey if A. Grabbers like schumer weren’t involved with the legislation. B. more nationalized gun rights i.e. open carry or concealed carry everywhere C. It was really a compromise. Meaning that this final bill/legislation settled the gun argument, and it was never brought up agian.
      Basically, until the argument changes to a more favorable view of guns, gun owners and gun rights, I won’t listen to their arguments, cause I can see the forest for the trees.

      • I can agree with you on most of these points, hence ‘if that is as far as it goes’, but you should still listen to the other side. It keeps you from getting tunnel vision brought on by surrounding yourself with too many people who agree with you.

        You’re dead on about the hidden agenda of gun-grabbing politicians. Little bits of their real goals leak out in what they say and do. Bloomberg wants to ban assault weapons, but also makes it impossible to carry even an old J-frame in NYC. Feinstein says the Milk-Mosconi murders motivated her to write the AWB. But they were killed with a 38 revolver, so isn’t it more likely she wants to ban guns all the way to the 38 and figures AR’s and AK’s are a good place to start? The same goes for Carolyn McCarthy.

        • I actually think dont think there’s inherently a problem with liscensing and registration of guns. If they were carfully regulated then maybe we could do away with NFA, and bring back automatics for the general pop without special permission, or faster processing of guns(no waiting periods for guns, no background checks) as well as nationwide things like concealed carry, interstate purchases, transport across state lines. And I feel like it would have some value to enforcement catching criminals and helping to fight crime and such, might even help cut down on gun violence. But since our politicians could never handle things like that, I’ll continue my stand. You are correct that I do need to listen to the other side, but more to know their arguments. I think alot more people would be okay with bills like a modified manchin toomey. I can’t speak for all the guys on this site but I would say alot of them are pretty sharp and could see a good deal vs a bad one. If we could work out a compromise that settled the gun debate permanently and made concessions to both sides without a hidden agenda I think alot more people who own guns would support it, but they just can’t trust the politicians, and they knowll theyll come back for more, because they’ve lied before and they’ll do it again. I’m young and this is a complex issue that’s been going on long before I was around, but ill be d@mned if I’m gonna sit down and let them control my life and rights.

  41. Down here in the south (aka free America), we have a saying “if it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck.” I saw the founders Facebook page before he deleted everything and it was filled with leftist images and homage to his God, Obama. If he has nothing to hide, why delete all of that? Pathetic.

  42. I suspect that is a typo in your definition of a false flag operation. Should it not be an anti-gun group masquerading as a pro-gun group?

    • Nah, it’s right. I had to look at it twice, too. Read it again, with some emphasis:

      “a pro-gun control group masquerading as a pro-gun group”

  43. If, at any point, an adult invokes ‘cyber bullying’ they pretty much have lost all respect from. . . well anyone who isn’t a left wing libtard. Children require special protection because they are children. Adults ought to be able to endure criticism, earned or not, stoically. What I’m hearing is a crybaby threatening to go tell teacher on us.

    I did take a good look at my hands however;
    I’ve been told on many occasions that I should be a hand model. Yes, they are that shapely, and I do like to maintain a decent manicure.
    Current inspection reveals nails and nail beds blacked with soot from ‘roaching’ a camp fire. It’s a term a friend invented that describes the actions of tired people in the dark feeding and nurturing a fire as accurately as I can imagine: Creeping about in a crouch or on hands and knees, groping with finger tips in the dark to find fuel, feeding and tending in a determined but yet still absent way, oblivious to dirt.
    There is a slight wound on the pad of my left hand where it was pinched by a cleaning rod handle while swabbing the barrel of a rifle. A long, shallow cut along the little finger of my right hand, now scabbed over, describes a recent misadventure with a splinter created by splitting wood with a hatchet.
    There is a callus in the web of my right hand at the junction of the thumb and palm, worn there by a 1911 and a great many rounds. I suspect years would not remove it. The fine white lines, others jagged and irregular, form a lattice of scars that bare testament to windows broken, mishaps with pocket knives, and the abuse hands receive when they are used as tools, parries and weapons.
    They hurt. They hurt deep down in the joins in ways I cannot explain to anyone who is not old enough to have gripped their coffee cup in the morning and winced at the pain in their knuckles. All the same, they still work, and they know tricks. They can reload a pistol without any conscious thought. They grip a rifle automatically in such a way as to allow controlled accurate fire. They know how to locate the soft, sensitive places on an opponent’s body and hurt them. They were damaged learning these tricks and the aches and scars are just artifacts of the experiences that taught them, much like the tricks themselves.
    I suspect that people like Mr. Vogt are jealous of such talented hands, perhaps even fearful. I doubt that when he looks at his he sees the years of dedication, training and duty I see. Perhaps he doesn’t have a story for the young warriors written in the scars on his, and finds himself lacking for it.
    When we are aware of our weaknesses and sure of our strengths insults do not bother us.

  45. First, I left my favourite leather jacket behind when I sold my house – my excuse is that I was off for a final fling with my then girlfriend. Second, there are tales of 30 round magazines falling out of M1 carbines on D-Day – the book is in the other room, so meh – so bigger is not always better. Third, I live in New Zealand so the weenie who cried like a baby that people were mean to him, can smooch my butt if he doesn’t like that I dismiss him as a snake in the grass. Buckshot normally takes care of that.

  46. (On their facebook page) Me: People that are informed and pro-gun follow real sites like The Truth About Guns, GOA, NRA. You’re allowed to be idiots; the 9th Amendment specifically protects your right for that (protecting rights that are not specifically enumerated by other amendments) after all. The informed gun enthusiasts will certainly pass it on to each other to avoid you. Our news about you type of false flags spreads faster than a post for an ammunition sale.

    The American Rifle and Pistol Association, Inc.: Unfortunately there have been numerous blogs out there intentionally repositioning our company, leading people to believe incorrect information. We completely support the 2nd amendment. R+P is a nonpartisan organization and is not affiliated with any political parties, political organizations, public office holders, or candidates for elective office – we want to represent the gun owner.

  47. I used to live in China. I walked around one day and I counted 24 children. Out of the 24 kids, only three were girls! That is a sex ratio of 8 boys to 1 girl! I once taught a class of 33 students where only 3 were girls! Now I know the official rate is 5 boys to 4 girls, but this is ridiculous. Who are these beloved sons going to marry in 20 years?

    I am aware that China has a one child policy, has a preference for sons as a replacement for a lack of a social security plan, and is backwards and undeveloped, but aborting females for males is beyond cruel. Estimates say that there will be a surplus of 60 million males in ten years.

    http://www.economist.com/node/15606229

    Chinese parents can have another child if they have a girl, but not if they have a boy. Chinese, however, often ignore the law, abort the girl, and have two sons. I am also told that China will import women from Russia, Thailand, Japan, Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, and the Philippines to make up for the lack of wives in China. However, these countries do not have an extra 60 million women and India, Pakistan, Nepal, Vietnam, South Korea, and Taiwan also have a severe shortage of women. An imbalanced sex ratio is a serious problem and could lead to social instability and even war.

    If you ever go to China, count the first 20 kids you see yourself. I bet you won’t find the sex ratio is better than two boys to one girl. If you are concerned about this problem, try to raise awareness by discussing this issue with others and ask them if they want to live in a world where everyone has an unmarried son.

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