Gun control advocates have a simple goal: civilian disarmament. Not total civilian disarmament. They’re OK with armed police who are, lest we forget, civilians. A special class of civilian. They’re not subject to the same gun control laws as you and I. For example, Bush the Younger’s Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act gives active and retired cops 50-state reciprocity. They can carry anywhere, except where prohibited by law. Like . . .
Minnesota Vikings’ U.S. Bank Stadium. Or any other stadium when the National Football League is banking billions showcasing their drug-enhanced employees. An exclusion up with which off-duty Gopher State cops could not put!
[Note: U.S. Bank Stadium is not private property. It was financed with taxpayer money: $348 million from the state, $150 million from Minneapolis. It’s run by the quasi-governmental Minnesota Sports Facilities Authority ,whose execs used “sky boxes” to reward Democratic donors.]
The police unions working in The Land of 10,000 Lakes (and a few billion mosquitos) convinced the state legislature to fix that problem. You know…the one which prevents ANY legally armed civilian (not hired by the NFL to protect patrons) from carrying their firearm to a Viking’s game.
From mprnews.org:
The discussion stems from the Minnesota Citizens’ Personal Protection Act, [link added, of course] which became law 14 years ago. It expanded the right of permitted gun owners to carry guns in public.
As part of that law, privately-owned establishments were empowered to keep guns out by posting a sign indicating they banned guns on the premises. That includes places like malls, restaurants and sports stadiums.
But confusion over the law has meant some off-duty officers were prevented from keeping their firearms when they thought they could, said Dennis Flaherty, executive director of the Minnesota Police and Peace Officers Association.
In 2015, the Minnesota Court of Appeals upheld a National Football League restriction that limited gun possession to on-duty officers and hired security.
As a result, off-duty officers weren’t allowed to bring firearms into games they were attending as fans.
The bill that passed committee Tuesday, which Flaherty’s group supports, would override any such policy.
So off-duty Minnesota cops look likely to get a carve-out from the Viking stadium gun ban, whereas “average” gun owners have to walk to and from the game unarmed. And watch the game without their personal defense weapon. Because . . . ?
Flaherty said off-duty law enforcement don’t know when they’ll have to spring into action. He cited last year’s St. Cloud mall attack by a man wielding a knife.
A part-time cop who was at Crossroads Center fatally shot the man after he had injured 10 people.
“If this attacker had not been encountered by the trained, armed, off-duty police officer who was capable of confronting him,” Flaherty said, “the attacker would have certainly harmed or killed many more people.”
And what if the St. Cloud mall wasn’t a “gun free zone.” What if — I’m just spitballing here — the first person that Dahir Adan attacked in that incident had been armed? Or their partner? Or one of the next nine non-cop civilians?
Pay no attention to those gun rights behind that curtain! Law enforcement officers are “the only ones” qualified for armed response to an imminent, credible threat of grievous bodily harm or death. Which is one of the key rationales behind all gun control.
Needless to say, the cop carve-out will pass; both political parties are on board.
But… but… that policeone poll said that cops support 2A…
Yes, police, full time, part time, and retired, all support that they have a right to bear arms in all 59 states and in all places. If you are not a cop. you’re just little people.
I know it’s a typo, but since Calexit hasn’t happened yet, we only have 50 official states. :D!
I think he’s referring to the states numbered by the former POTUS and greatest gun salesperson of all time.
FPOTUS “57” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws
“We’ve been to 57 states…and have one more to go. We haven’t been to Alaska or Hawaii.”
Barack Hussein Obama: America’s Last Black President
You are referring to the ex-president’s confusing the 57 Islamic states with the 50 US states. Right?
Only folks with little minds believe that whopper….
sure they do. But human nature is what it is. This is why carveouts are often put in place. its not because these politicians actually think cops need their guns all the time, instead they KNOW that cops unions and other organizations will come out AGAINST a bill and a politician when THEIR rights are threatened.
So its two fold. 1- the Kings men are always a bit better than the rest of us and 2- even if you dont think abt number 1 the politicians want to keep police union and associations from coming out against something.
This just pisses me off. AND I’m a retired cop (medical). These carve out separate people into subjects and kings men.
“These carve out separate people into subjects and kings men.”
Not to worry, NRA state lobbyist Todd Vandermyde will be advancing legislation to remove Duty to Inform in Illinois’ concealed carry bill, as well as the ban on public transport carry, neither of which apply to cops, off-duty cops, or retired cops carrying under LEOSA.
Then again, maybe not. Right now Vandermyde & NRA are selling out Illinois gun owners for the fifteenth time by not opposing gun sentencing penalty enhancement in state Senator Kwame Raoul’s bill. Vandermyde’s day is not complete if he can’t hurt somebody or rip someone off. Traitors always play both sides. Thanks Todd!
They do, fool. That’s why they vote GOP just like most people here. But that doesn’t mean they are going to not take advantage of being able to carry.
If a national reciprocity act is passed (lol) that only applies to people who hold permits from their own states- so that places like MD and CA (etc) can prevent their citizens from partaking- would you disarm before entering those states in solidarity?
No, because that would be stupid.
There is a difference between solidarity, and explicitly lobbying for exclusive gun privileges for their government employment club, as the police union is doing in this case.
If cops support 2A, why are police unions consistently anti-2A?
Police unions are anti 2A, very much so, they’re even anti cop, because they support democrats. They are a self defeating entity. Sure, they can get police higher wages/benifits, and try to shield them, but, supporting democrats will eventually return to bite the police in the ass in a big way, like when the democrats turn their backs on them and hang them out to dry, like in Baltimore. But also, remember that any most states, particularly red states with Right to Work laws, police unions are just as hampered as any Union, and membership is quite low. In the big Union blue states however, we all know the answer there.
Hank: You have NO CLUE what you are talking about. How old are you, twelve?
Hannibal, I love your optimism, but seriously? I won’t postulate a percentage, but I would make a substantial wager most major metro cops would love to see everybody disarmed, that way they can shoot anyone with a gun and don’t need to think. Not to mention major metro chiefs, who, with a few notable exceptions, are steadfastly against anybody but cops doing anything to defend themselves with a gun.
There are 2 different entities involved here:
1) Metro Chiefs (not to be confused with elected Sheriffs) serve at the pleasure of their mayors, who are typically anti-gun types. Hence, they support their bosses’ anti-gun policies. Surveys of “rank and file” LEOs and of elected Sheriffs, indicate that the large majority of them DO support, and often advocate, civilian carry, especially by those with CCW licenses (who have passed background checks).
And yet police unions are consistently anti-2A, and they are supposedly run by the rank and file.
Either the survey methodology is useless, or cops are liars. Probably both.
Then why don’t YOU become a police officer and show us all how it SHOULD be done? Put up or shut up.
Totally asinine argument. By parity of “logic”, one needs to murder to know murder is wrong.
I did see you used the same asinine argument not once, but twice. Oh my.
Is this dumb? Yeah. Is this “blood boiling”? Nah… Tell you what’s really flat out enraging though… That 500 million in tax payer dollars went to building a f***ing stadium for a private franchise. Flat. Out. Retarded.
I presume the NFL’s policy is to prevent drunken fans from engaging in shoot-outs after consuming too many over priced drinks? And we know an off-duty officer would never over indulge! If I lived in Minnesota, I’d be livid!
I live in FL, but I’m still pissed. Whenever cops either get carve outs or firearms civilians in their states can’t legally own it floors me. These Dems are so scared of police brutality yet they only want cops armed. Stupid
Well, this is only the first stage. Once they disarm everyone but police, they will mandate that police be disarmed off duty, and then they will mandate that only politically acceptable and party loyal recruits are hired.
Sorta like the UK…
Well, unless I am called for jury duty or absolutely have to fly on an airplane, if I can’t be armed where you are, I don’t go where you are and I don’t spend my money there.
Only the (*gulp) intervention of federal authority will do much for this.
You are free to “not go” to locations such as this, but the problem is that that is just fine by them.
You can want the police to be on your side on this issue, except they will never be….ever.
So, short of insurrection, we have to hope (again…*gulp) that old Donaldus Trumpus actually does something unheard of in the realm of gun laws. He actually follows the constitution of the United States.
“You can want the police to be on your side on this issue, except they will never be….ever.”
Ah yes, gun owners and police, we’re all “on the same side.” That’s NRA lie number 16, propagated by the old farts and Massad Ayoob fanboys. If it weren’t for the brain dead losers at the over-55 trailer park who buy into this nonsense, NRA would go out of business tomorrow. If only it could be 1972 forever, all would be well in America.
“If only it could be 1972 forever, all would be well in America.”
You mean pre Roe v. Wade? I don’t know if all would be well, but it would be a step in the right direction.
As if YOU know more about the subject than Ayoob. Do yourself a favor and quit drinking so early in the day.
I’ve met Ayoob and spoken with him a couple of times. Mas is a nice guy, but he was never in the military to my knowledge. He is a part-time “captain” of an eight to ten person department in a little burg in New Hampshire the last I knew. He’s not exactly a Tier One operator, he’s a gun writer and shooting instructor.
In any case, it’s never a good idea to get your legal advice from cops. Cops are not lawyers, and most departments in America still do not require a university education in 2017.
Everyone else in the courtroom from the lawyers to the judge has an advanced degree. A three-year law degree would be equivalent to a masters. The politicians like to have barely competent to below average I.Q. Joe Six-Packs for their garbage collectors.
Hmmm seems to me that this runs afoul of that pesky old “equal protection ” clause.
No 212° blood in me. I expect this cop BS. And I don’t go to pro football games. Or any pro team(well maybe a Cubs game gratis)…
And some people still think no one is above the law in America. Silly idiots.
“As part of that law, privately-owned establishments were empowered to keep guns out by posting a sign indicating they banned guns on the premises. That includes places like malls, restaurants and sports stadiums.”
As often happens when news organizations try to report on gun issues, they get it wrong unless they talk to someone who knows. Mall can not legally ban the lawful carry of firearms since they are landlords and specifically forbidden posting banning guns. This is written into the Minnesota Personal Protection Act,
“(e) A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or possession of firearms by tenants or their guests.”
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.714
Individual stores may post banning carry though. In fact this was addressed a while back here,
“Representative Cornish said the intent was to allow legal weapons in open areas, like malls and mall hallways, while giving individual stores the option to ban them.”
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/02/22/lawmaker-challenging-mall-of-americas-gun-policy-after-threat/
“And what if the St. Cloud mall wasn’t a “gun free zone.” What if — I’m just spitballing here — the first person that Dahir Adan attacked in that incident had been armed? Or their partner? Or one of the next nine non-cop civilians?”
This one drives me crazy. The mall in St. Cloud was NOT a gun free zone. There are two reasons it isnt. The first is the reason I mentioned above. The second is that even if malls could legally ban carry, the St. Cloud mall doesnt post banning carry in accordance with state law.
Minnesota’s carry law specifies the size, format, and wording of signs to legally ban carry. I go to this mall frequently and am pretty good at spotting legal signs banning carry, and the signs just aren’t there. And I carry routinely and if the sign isnt there I consider it perfectly legal to carry there. In fact, my daughters and I were in the mall the weekend before the attack.
Also in Minnesota, if you do carry where its properly posted, you can only be ticketed for tresspassing with a maximum fine of $25 for the first offense and they cant take your gun. And that’s only if you refuse to leave after being told to.
“…Mall can not legally ban the lawful carry of firearms since they are landlords and specifically forbidden posting banning guns…”
Which is exactly what happens: malls, grocers, all, post signs on the entries stating firearms prohibited. Building owners don’t care about following the ‘letter’ of the law any more than I care ‘cuz I carry concealed and no one’s ever noticed. Even if they did, I’d just walk out the store.
Still, this does rankle me, especially since news broadcast the vote and there wasn’t one dissent among the panel.
What I would like to see is one of our ‘pro-gun/constitutional carry’ senators tack on a ‘also applies to CCW holders’ amendment to this ‘bill’. Of course, MN Carry dot com will never think of this, even if slapped with it by Email. In fact, mail is ‘returned to sender’.
“Also in Minnesota, if you do carry where its properly posted, you can only be ticketed for tresspassing with a maximum fine of $25 for the first offense and they cant take your gun. And that’s only if you refuse to leave after being told to.”
You guys are lucky in Minnesota. Here in Illinois, every violation of state Rep. Brandon Phelps “NRA backed” concealed carry bill starts out with SIX MONTHS in jail plus $1,500 fine, then ONE YEAR in jail for second offense. Since ALL violations of the carry bill are criminal, including the new “crime” of Duty to Inform, at arrest the cop can seize your gun, then your FOID and CCL get suspended, and the IL State Police can raid your house with the SWAT team if you don’t move fast enough to transfer your guns to friends or family before they swoop down on you.
NRA state lobbyist Todd Vandermyde is working hard to have the criminal penalties downgraded to a civil infraction. Just kidding! Right now he is cutting deals with state Senator Kwame Raoul to allow enhanced sentencing for gun offenses. What else do you expect from the NRA lobbyist who sold out Otis McDonald? Do Chris Cox & ILA have the faintest idea what their state lobbyists are up to?
That is crappy..fortunately, the NFL sucks anyway and I don’t partake of their ‘product’ anymore, so I’m not gonna lose sleep over this one.
If they’re not careful, MN’s going to get a free clinic on who “gets” vs. who “has” guns courtesy of Obama-jihadi imports. Then, those law makers are going to have to kill their own kids and then themselves because they won’t like how their average citizen, whose had to suffer their cr_p for so long, will likely do it.
You could probably film it from the air and dub it into episodes of the Walking Dead, or another “28 Days Later” movie.
Did anyone catch this gem?
The not-so-subtle implication in that statement, “Your everyday Joe is not trained nor capable of confronting a knife-wielding maniac.”
My response to Mr. Flaherty: kiss my rosy red American @ss you slimeball.
From my understanding of an article I read earlier today, the Minnesota Vikings franchise and people associated with, are NOT happy about this. They didn’t want any guns in at all.
If anything, police should be held to a higher standard than that of the public…As it stands now, police can commit crimes with impunity because, in most situations, they investigate themselves…Behavior that would get an ordinary citizen charged, convicted and incarcerated is routinely ignored by “the powers that be” because police are considered to be “above the law” as the “law” is whatever they say it is, the Constitution be damned…
Ever notice that police unions are “fraternal”? This should tell you something. The “thin-blue-line” is a gang, little different than street gangs–at least when it comes to “covering-up” their questionable and quite often, illegal and criminal behavior.
In today’s day and age, “officer safety” trumps de-escalation of force. This, in part, is due to the militarization of the police along with training in Israeli police tactics. This becomes a problem, with the “us vs. them” attitude that is fosters, along with the fact that Israel is a very different place, being on a constant “war footing”, and by necessity, its police tactics are very different.
There are too many instances of police being “given a pass”, even when incontrovertible video and audio evidence is presented. Grand juries, guided by police-friendly prosecutors, quite often refuse to charge those police officers who abuse their authority.
Police officers, who want to do the right thing, are quite often marginalized and put into harms way, by their own brethren…When a police officer is beating on someone that is already restrained while yelling, “stop resisting” THAT is but one reason police have a “bad name” in many instances…this makes the “good cops” who are standing around, witnessing their “brethren in blue” beating on a restrained suspect, culpable as well…
Here are changes that can help reduce police-induced violence:
1. Get rid of police unions. Police unions (fraternities) protect the guilty, and are responsible for the massive whitewashing of questionable police behavior that is presently being committed.
2. Eliminate both “absolute” and “qualified” immunity for all public officials. This includes, prosecutors and judges, police and firefighters, code enforcement and child protective services officials, and others who deal with the citizenry. The threat of being sued personally would encourage them to behave themselves. Require police officers to be “bonded” by an insurance company, with their own funds. No bond= no job.
3. Any public funds disbursed to citizens as a result of police misconduct should come out of police pension funds–NOT from the taxpayers.
4. Regular drug-testing of police officers as well as incident-based drug testing should take place whenever an officer is involved in a violent situation with a citizen–no exceptions.
5. Testing for steroid use should be a part of the drug testing program. You know damn well, many police officers “bulk up” with the “help” of steroids. Steroids also affect users mentally as well, making them more aggressive. The potential for abuse of citizens increases greatly with steroid use.
6. Internal affairs should only be used for disagreements between individual officers–NOT for investigations involving citizen abuse. State-level investigations should be mandatory for all suspected abuses involving citizens.
7. Prosecutors should be charged with malfeasance IF any evidence implicating police officer misconduct is not presented to the grand jury.
8. A national or state-by-state database of abusive individuals who should NEVER be allowed to perform police work should be established–a “blacklist” of abusive (former) police officers.
9. Most people are unaware that police have special “rules” that prohibit them from being questioned for 48 hours. This allows them to “get their stories straight” and makes it easier to “cover up” bad police behavior. Police must be subject to the same laws as civilians.
10. All police should be required to wear bodycams and utilize dashcams that cannot be turned off. Any police officers who causes a dash or body cam to be turned off should be summarily fired–no excuses. Today’s body and dash cams are reliable enough to withstand harsh treatment. Body and dashcam footage should be uploaded to a public channel “on the cloud” for public perusal.
11. All interrogations must be video and audio recorded. Police should be prohibited from lying or fabricating stories in order to get suspects to confess. False confessions ARE a problem in many departments. Unknown to most people, police can lie with impunity while civilians can be charged with lying to police…fair? I think not…
12. Any legislation passed that restricts the rights of ordinary citizens, such as firearms magazine capacity limits, types of weapons allowed, or restrictive concealed-carry laws should apply equally to police. No special exemptions to be given to police. Laws must be equally applied.
Police work is not inherently dangerous…there are many other professions that are much more dangerous.
A little “Andy Taylor” could go a long way in allaying fears that citizens have of police.
That being said, I have no problem with police officers who do their job in a fair, conscientious manner…however, it is time to call to task those police officers who only “protect and serve” themselves.
You ever notice that anarchists are universally silly geese?
you must be a copsucker…
Regards,
Well I can carry in all 50 states. I also fully support that right for all law abiding citizens.
Wow analcyst …. how about some data or sources to back up this bull@$%#? You obviously just don’t like police and you made a failed attempt to use this story for your agenda. Get a life.
It’s not a matter of dislike at all. I want to see cops go home after their shift. It is the BS that cops get away with that is the problem. The “thin blue line” protects its own, right or wrong. I hope you never get on a cop’s “bad side” for no reason at all. In today’s day and age. “officer safety” and “I feared for my life” seems to get bad cops off with just a slap on the wrist and a paid vacation while you may end up dead, just for following a cop’s demands. It happens much more often than you think…
Today’s cops are an “occupying army” and themselves, do not consider themselves “civilians”…Us mere mundane civilians are now all Palestinians…
THAT, my friend, has to change.
Then why don’t YOU become a police officer and show us all how it SHOULD be done? Put up or shut up.
I was…I found another line of work because of the abuses of the “thin blue line” and the ability to “lord over” my fellow citizens, having the ability to “get away with acts” that would result in an ordinary citizen’s arrest and incarceration.
Yup, good reason to have unions. Cops vote pro-gun already, it’s too bad not enough other people do. And if everyone who is pro-gun paid dues to an organization that fought for pro-gun laws for its members maybe there wouldn’t need to be carve-outs. But I bet most of the people complaining about ‘carve-outs’ wouldn’t think twice about carrying in states like NY or CA where your ability to get a carry permit is similarly arbitrary based on your residence and whether your local judge feels charitable. Would someone in upstate NY refuse to carry a gun because he knows that people down near (but not in) NYC cannot? I doubt it.
Of course it is also more palpable to lawmakers to have cops carrying because they’ve had psychological exams, background checks more invasive than ANY permit process in this country, polygraphs, quarterly or yearly qualifications, certifications in uses of force, fingerprinting\dna and a bunch of other things anyone here would cry bloody murder if they had to go through in order to be able to legally carry.
Hannibal, Are kidding, or do you actually believe that bullshit? I know it’s bullshit, anyone who actually knows cops pretty much anywhere in the US knows it’s bullshit. A chronically drunk 60 year old can qualify pistol, as well as women who can barely hold a gun properly. Nut jobs are routinely hired, as long as the powers that be think they are controllable nut jobs. We only track Texas, but cops break far more laws than CCW holders, which means it’s at least an order of magnitude in reality, since you and I both know you gotta royally screw the pooch to get arrested by your brothers. You know I support cops, but the nonsensical assertion that some extra “vetting” that you get as a cop somehow makes you “more safe” is just fantasy.
Another tough talking loser who screams 364 days a year: ‘Fu*k the police, screw the pigs!’. Except that one day a year when your fat azz is in a jam and then you scream: ‘HELP!!! POLICE!!!! HEEEEELLLLLLPPPPP!!!! I experienced PLENTY of dorks like you over a 32+ year law enforcement career. But you know what? THE POLICE WILL STILL ARRIVE AND WILL BE WILLING TO SERVE, despite your enormous ignorance. And don’t start on the ‘I never dial 911’ crapola; the police show up when some DUI driver plows into your car and you barely have a pulse. Go on a few ‘ride alongs’ with your local PD before you spout any more of your bilge.
Blah, blah, blah. I have several generations of cops in my family, know cops IRL, and know what actually happens “out there”. Please bury this bullshit that a cops’ life is something special, or jam it up your ass. It’s a job. One with great benes, a gravy retirement, and a free pass on life’s little mistakes. You’re the keyboard warrior, who knows sweet FA about the job.
I did my ride alongs in North STL back in the day. The job was boring with a few rare moments of slight excitement.
16V- ” A chronically drunk 60 year old can qualify pistol, as well as women who can barely hold a gun properly.”
True story, my friend’s uncle was a thirty-five year lifer sergeant with C.P.D., starting in like 1965 or so before the Democratic convention riots. After medical retirement, he moved to southern Illinois and had to do the shooting qualification to get his retired carry card under LEOSA, which is issued by the IL state police. He does the shoot at the ISP range, where he can barely stand because he has to walk with a cane. ISP instructor passes him.
“…the nonsensical assertion that some extra “vetting” that you get as a cop somehow makes you “more safe” is just fantasy.”
The Massad Ayoob fantasy of the police/ civilian partnership circa 1972 is what keeps NRA in business. Rubes like Hannibal who have never been in the military and don’t know shit from shinola are necessary to keep the carney show rambling along. Per P.T. Barnum, there’s a sucker born every minute. Yee-haw!
Not surprising. My paternal grandfather was CPD a bit earlier. Died as a result of wounds received in the line of duty. That’s the deal. Always amused by these ass-monkeys who think being a cop is special, or some sort of sacrifice, or some such. It’s a job, a safe one, and if you die doing it, you get a tribute on tv, and tens of thousands of tax dollars spent for your funeral procession alone. Unlike the forklift operator, painter, groundskeeper, or the majority of Americans who are more likely to die on the job…
“Always amused by these ass-monkeys who think being a cop is special, or some sort of sacrifice, or some such.”
Selling the lie that police work is so dangerous is the whole scam of the police unions, and the source of their influence within state legislatures. That’s what happened in Illinois’ 2013 concealed carry bill. The police just had to have Duty to Inform, because it’s for “officer safety.” If DTI was important, it would be in LEOSA, and off-duty and retired cops would have a legal obligation to inform on-duty cops that they are armed.
It’s a joke that they sell to the small town legislators like Illinois carry bill sponsor Brandon Phelps, after rats like NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde supply the language for the bills, which they got from police unions in the first place. The whole carney show is based on the stupidity of the NRA rubes who buy the scam.
“It’s a job, a safe one, and if you die doing it, you get a tribute on tv, and tens of thousands of tax dollars spent for your funeral procession alone.”
The Labor Dept. stats I’ve seen lately don’t even list police in the top ten most dangerous occupations any more. Fishermen, lumberjacks and farmers have more dangerous jobs, and you don’t hear them whining about it all the time either. Cops justify their existence with constant emotional manipulation and the help of TV shows. I think it started with Dragnet. Who would be stupid enough to open their door for two cops and invite them into the living room?
One of my friends coined a great term for the whole bullshit genre of Dick Wolf TV shows starting with CSI Miami:
cop glorification. The lead detective wears a thousand dollar suit, has a professionally styled hairdo and the I.Q. of a nuclear scientist, but he chose to be a cop because he wants to right wrongs. Ridiculous.
I’ve seen the MMPI results for police recruits like Officer Clowntard here talks about, and police score vastly higher for every possible indicator of deviancy: divorce, suicide, depression, alcohol and drug abuse, domestic violence, etc. Mostly they are sociopaths, schemers, and bullies.
I never met a cop in my life who could have stood up to a week in Ranger school, much less a week in basic training. They’re selfish and cannot work in a team.
One has to wonder about some of your statements Demo. For example, how did you get access to the MMPI profiles of rookie cops? And exactly what elevated scales suggest deviant behavior to you? I’m not a cop groupie, and some of what you say seems reasonable – don’t contaminate the good with BS.
Oldshooter- We didn’t see “profiles” just aggregated data from every P.D. in America. No names in other words. We took the MMPI test as well, and studied the methodology and statistics involved in police recruitment, assessment, organizational psychology, you name it. Saw the data assisting my professor and during my course work.
After all that though, my cousin made the observation to me twenty years ago that the guys he knew from school who became cops were mostly bullies, or had been bullied. That may be true too, just a common sense observation from a regular guy with a high school education.
Oh, but such a well turned phrase is a joy to behold, truly a thing of art!
BTW, you know what they call the guy who proofread Hitler’s speeches, right –
a “Grammar NAZI”
Eat an elephant one piece at a time, I am not mad. Police repoprocity sets a potential framework for us all. One thing to look at is that if we citizens can the standards that they did with rules of force and weapons qual we should be able to have 50 state concealed carry.
NRA Rube of the Day award! You win a free ride to the carney show on Wayne LaPierre’s private jet. But you have to clean up and remove the chewing gum from under the seats, then you get to sit in the cargo bay.
“Eat an elephant one piece at a time…” How about, “the perfect is the enemy of the good” another well-worn mantra of losers and slaves which NRA trots out every time their lobbyists collude with police unions? How much longer until NRA dies off along with its membership?
The part that makes me angry isn’t who has permission and who doesn’t, it’s that taxpayer money is being used all over the country to fund garbage like this. If the public gets taxed to build anything that is open to the public, you should not have to surrender your rights at the whim of a private company when you enter.
Gun advocates are “OK with armed police (i.e. LEO-civilians)” until they are NOT OK. I assume they believe once the non-LEO civilians are fully disarmed (which is possible in their Utopian viewpoint), then there will be no need for the LEO’s to be armed.
Further, once the UN gets the so-called “global community” on board with world wide gun control, then no army in the world will need guns or weapons and world peace will break out all over the place (which is also possible in their Utopian viewpoint, millennia of history be damned).
But in the interim, we’ll have to be content with being safe at an NFL football game, because the NFL are experts in personal safety (decades of history in concussion research be damned).
Even if this bill passes, the cops in U.S. Bank Stadium will still be outgunned by the Bloods and Crips on the field in Minnesota Vikings uniforms.
If there was a position on a pro football team for 5’7″ 140 pound guys with tattooed faces, MS-13 would also be well represented in the NFL.
There is – the supply manager (dealer)
I recall seeing a story about a retired cop shooting a guy to death in a movie theatre over popcorn being tossed at him in the news recently. I guess he didnt become an irresponsible gun owner til after he took the badge off.
Yeah, it sucks, but the larger story here is that the NFL stuck its snout in the taxpayers’ wallets and carved out half a billion dollars worth of wealth for themselves.
That corporate welfare, aka legalized theft, is why I don’t watch their games anymore.
MN, the land of 10,000 libtards…..Maybe more like 10,000,000.
Minnesota = GOVENOR Ventura and SENATOR Franken and tens of thousands of Somali Mooooslem “immigrants”.
In fairness, Ventura was the one who signed Minnesota’s shall issue permit system into law. Though I personally believe he did it out of spite because he had applied for a carry permit and was denied while he was a member of the city council.
Yes, but at least we’re not Iowa. Iowa sucks. 🙂
“MN, the land of 10,000 libtards”
Minnesota has been doing pretty well at expanding gun rights. Two years ago, five pro gun laws were passed including legalizing suppressors, and forbidding gun confiscating guns during emergencies. Carry in the Capitol has been allowed for many years and two years ago, the notification requirement was removed.
And carry permit holders aren’t required to conceal.
Stadiums have long amused me.
Cities really, truly believe that they’re getting a deal that’s going to make them money but it never does. It’s happened all over the world and to my knowledge not a one of them has ever been profitable. Cities lose money on the Olympics and smile while doing it.
They know it won’t make money. To them it’s about the prestige of having a pro sports team.
It is however worth noting that the NFL, in and of itself, doesn’t actually make that much money and never has. It’s the teams themselves that make a boatload.
Its just one more progtard fable. They lie, everyone knows it is a lie, yet they complete the circle by telling the lie. Circle of BS. See Michelle Obama “I support the troops”, Pelosi “must pass it so we can see what is in it”. All of the SOBs “believe in the right to (bare) arms” etc etc etc
Well, they do believe in the right to bare gun safes.
“It is however worth noting that the NFL, in and of itself, doesn’t actually make that much money and never has.”
Depends on how you define “make that much money”. If the league spends every last dollar of its revenue on compensating its employees (including Roger Goodell’s $34M salary) then the LEAGUE had no profits (i.e. didn’t make any money), despite the fact that the league’s EMPLOYEES pocketed an awful lot of money.
More of the same cop bashing CNNesque ignorant crap from a site that has the word Truth in the title (which is already laughable). Have you heard of Webster’s dictionary, let’s go see the accepted definition of civilian. Definition of civilian 1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law 2a : one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b : outsider 1
That’s a reinvented definition, par the course of the new order, where words are redefined to fit the liberal agenda.
I have a copy of the New Webster’s dictionary circa 1993 which only states “non members of the armed forces”. Nothing about cops or firemen, or whatever new group the liberals want to add to the definition.
If you don’t believe me, let me know how to post a pic,andi’ll post the of the page in the book.
Anyone who is not active duty military is a civilian, including the President. Note how the cop suckasses around here are always the losers who have never worn the (real) uniform?
The NFL is anti-gun and anti-American. Something to remember when the your local NFL franchise wants some rich guy welfare for their new stadium. How stupid do you have to be to spend $500 million taxpayer dollars to subsidize guys in tights throwing a ball around?
Past time for some “unequal protection” lawsuits.
Yeah. I saw a class of those “trained, armed, off-duty police officer who was capable of confronting him,” yesterday at the range. The tactical range and shoot house were closed while they took the same class, taught by the same people, I took myself last month. So, maybe their program was longer or used more repetitions through more scenarios than mine did, but I’m hardly a slouch.
It’s ok to end a sentence with a preposition. This is 2017.
This is a typical “cops get special treatment and they get to carry when I can’t and that makes me mad!!” rant. Let’s look at some of the facts that folks with rants like this always overlook, ignore or simply don’t know. First, all police are trained to react to bad guys, very few civilian carrier’s have any kind of similar training. Second, police officers are required by law to respond to bad guys whether they are on duty or off (obviously drinking is an exception). Third, police officers who are carrying off duty cannot consume alcohol. Fourth, like number one, all police officers have actual gun training, very few civilian carriers by comparison have any kind of similar training.
I support constitutional carry for everyone (except for the obvious standard exclusions). I believe you should be able to carry your gun across state lines and all that stuff but this argument that the police are treated as higher class citizens because they get to carry their weapons when you can’t is absolutely stupid. It’s something you would expect to hear on a playground. Student says “If the teachers can do “insert whatever” then I should be able to also!!”. Um, no, you are not a police officer, you don’t have the training, the experience, the responsibilities or perhaps even the mental mindset. Obviously there are exceptions, some folks do meet some of those things but overall, when comparing the population across the board it’s a big no.
Fight for your rights, you are entitled to them but don’t act like a child and lash out at police officers who have a job to do that requires them to be able to carry off duty, it does nothing to aid the fight for full 2A rights for all citizens. The police are there to help and they put their lives on the line every day to do that. If you want to complain about the police and their carry legal requirements go apply for law enforcement, take the full MMPI, go through the interview process, go through the training, do your time out in the wild and THEN come back and berate them if you choose because then and only then, will you have earned that right. In case you are wondering, yes, I am a former LEO.
It is fact that law-abiding concealed carriers are MORE responsible than the average police officer, and have a much higher, “successful hit ratio” than the average cop. What concealed carriers DO NOT have is the “protection” that the “thin blue line” affords cops, such as the right not to be questioned until after 48 hours has elapsed, to get their stories straight…
Here are “police” practices that deserve to be exposed:
#1. During a traffic stop, the police officer will touch the back of your car. The reason for this “touch” is that, quite often, the police officer will have a small quantity of narcotics (marijuana or cocaine) on him (in his hand) that he will rub on the car in order to help “justify a search”. When the dog is brought in, it will react to “cues” from its handler as well as the drug residue on the vehicle and help “justify a search”. This tactic is mostly used against young people. Drugs can also be “planted” on a “suspect”.
The “touch” used to be a way for police officers to “prove” that they had an interaction with a citizen, but no more . . .
#2. Most (if not all) cops possess a “throwdown” weapon. This “helper” is obtained from a criminal who is then “let go” without his weapon and is always used to justify a questionable police situation and to “sanitize” a “crime scene to absolve police on the scene of criminal police behavior.
#3. If you are in the back of a police car, LIE DOWN on the seat. Police use the concept of “screening” to abuse their unwilling “passenger”. This involves, driving at high rates of speed, violent turns and other antics to get the passenger to “hit the screen” separating the front from the back with his face. Hence the act of “screening”.
#4. If you are being handcuffed, quite often the police officer will wrench you arm behind you, forcing you to “turn around”. Another “trick” is a foot to the instep, forcing the individual to involuntarily “pull away”. The officer will then add a charge of “assault” to whatever other charges they concoct against you (just for being forced to turn around). They “pile on” charges, hoping you will plead guilty to at least one.
Remember–NEVER CONSENT TO SEARCH . . . You must be polite, but firm in your refusal. You can state that “you NEVER consent to searches” as well as using these “magic” words–“am I free to go?” The police officer MUST answer your question . . . If you are being detained and an illegal search takes place, you have legal recourse.
Remember–police are not your friends . . .
That being said, not all “law enforcement” is criminal, but the “thin blue line” that they so jealously guard (and “look the other way” when rogue cops abuse their authority) does much to taint ALL “law enforcement” with having ulterior motives.
Re. #2- In Chicago the “cold” piece to plant on a suspect was usually carried in an ankle holster. This is portrayed on film in “Code of Silence.”
Re. #3- That is interesting. Years ago I had a job where one of my customers was the municipal garage for a good size suburban town. This building was like a huge open bay, with large overhead garage doors tall enough to drive a semi truck inside. They had lifts and did all maintenance on their vehicles, from large plow trucks to police sedans.
One day there was a Ford Crown Vic municipal police car sitting in the shop with the hood up and trunk open. The shop foreman, my customer, was fixing something with the electronics if I remember. In the trunk there was a large box, which had the VHS tape recorder for the dash cam at the time.
The rear seat was all molded fiberglass. The foreman let me sit in back to check it out, and it was hard as a rock!
I mentioned to him that would be an uncomfortable ride, especially if your hands were handcuffed behind you. He said, yeah, and if the cops want to give you a hard time, they do not buckle your seat belt, then they round corners at high speed and slam on the brakes to throw you into the bulletproof plastic screen to cause injuries! Exactly what you describe here.
Interacting with cops is the closest you will get in this world to dealing with demons in hell. There is always the element of pretense. Malevolence and lies are always the common denominator with police criminals.
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