Rep. Carolyn “The shoulder thing that goes up” McCarthy and Sen. Frank “Terror Gap” Lautenberg have started a petition against H.R. 822, The National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011. The not-so-dynamic duo detail their arguments in a polemic at The Huffington Post. Tell President Obama: Stop the NRA From Making Our Laws the headline demands. Rep. McCarthy and Sen. Lautenberg seem to have no trouble allowing the Brady Campaign to write their legislation. Their opening paragraph displays the standard tactics of the antis: ad hominem attacks and breathless scare-mongering before adding a heapin’ helpin’ of howling hypocrisy…
Among the many dangerous bills that corporate lobbyists and the Tea Party are sending slithering through Congress is one supported by the NRA that not only flies in the face of states’ rights to set their own local laws, but is a direct threat to public safety for millions of Americans across the nation.
First of all, calling the gun lobby “corporate” is simply laughable. The NRA is supported by membership dues and folding cash in small denominations collected by volunteers (as opposed to paid staffers) manning tables at gun shows across the country. Another reason the antis are so desperate to get rid of gun shows?
This, in stark contrast to AstroTurf™ organizations like the Legal Community Against Violence, the Violence Policy Center, the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence or Mayors Against Illegal Guns who suckled at the Joyce Foundation‘s prodigious teat, to the tune of $11,723,000 in 2010. In addition, saying that our “dangerous bill” “slithered” through Congress is another typical ad hominem attack. When the antis can’t address the substance of the issue they devolve to kindergarten style name calling.
Now let’s look at the part where they say that H.R. 822 “flies in the face of states’ rights to set their own local laws.” I’ve already beaten the segregation and voting rights horses to death, so let’s address the mind-bogglingly hypocritical part of the statement. Rep. McCarthy and Sen. Lautenberg have both introduced bills to close the “gun show loophole,” ban “assault weapons,” and make people on the terrorist watch list “prohibited persons.”
The energetic Rep. McCarthy has also introduced a bill to ban normal capacity magazines (on top of the ban contained in her “assault weapons” ban). Sen. Lautenberg has introduced a bill to “disarm wife-beaters.” Oddly enough, all of these laws would have be national in scope. Clearly, this unholy political partnership has no problem with their laws abrogating “states’ rights to set their own local laws.”
Finally, the bit where they state that this bill “is a direct threat to public safety for millions of Americans across the nation” is another bit of targeted slime, this time aimed at every law-abiding permit holder across the country. A charge which, oddly enough, they don’t attempt to substantiate in any way, shape or form. Okay I guess it’s not so odd given that all the evidence shows that people are actually safer in states with liberal Permit To Carry (PTC) laws. So not only is the charge unsubstantiated it’s completely insubstantial.
In the third paragraph, they drop the subtle logical fallacies, hyperbole and distortion. Since I would never accuse either of these fine Congresscritters of being so lazy or incompetent that they didn’t closely study legislation that is so manifestly important to them, they switch to the bread-and-butter tactic of the antis of flat out lying:
That means Texas Governor Rick Perry could decide who can carry a concealed weapon in your state — even if they have a criminal record that your state would consider a barrier to owning a gun.
Wow, that sounds dangerous! So what does 822 actually say regarding eligibility to carry in another state?
Section 926D(b): The possession or carrying of a concealed handgun in a State under this section shall be subject to the same conditions and limitations, except as to eligibility to possess or carry, imposed by or under Federal or State law or the law of a political subdivision of a State, that apply to the possession or carrying of a concealed handgun by residents of the State or political subdivision who are licensed by the State or political subdivision to do so, or not prohibited by the State from doing so.
Okay, that’s a real brain scrambler, so let’s break it down, shall we?
“The possession or carrying of a concealed handgun in a State under this section” means carrying concealed.
“[S]hall be subject to the same conditions and limitations, … that apply to the possession or carrying of a concealed handgun by residents of the State or political subdivision who are licensed by the State or political subdivision to do so” means you have to follow local laws as if you had a local PTC.
“[E]xcept as to eligibility to possess or carry, imposed by or under Federal or State law or the law of a political subdivision of a State, means, you don’t need to be a local with a local PTC. [O]r not prohibited by the State from doing so” means (and it is important), except state or local “prohibited persons.”
Basically, Subsection (b) says that so long as you follow the local laws, if you have a PTC, you can carry in any state that has permits—unless you are a “prohibited person” in that state. Someone with “a criminal record that your state would consider a barrier to owning a gun” will still be prohibited from carrying in “your state.”
The rest of their piece doesn’t even warrant parsing since it’s the same Chicken Little scare-mongering that we’ve heard from the antis for decades. Although they do manage to leave out the usual “blood in the streets” and “fender-bender firefights” claims, McCarthy and Lauteberg make no less than four references to the threat to “public safety” presented by law-abiding permit-holders.
That leaves two questions. Since when does crossing a state line turn someone from a law-abiding citizen into a raving psychotic? And why all the hubbub over a bill that we’re told has no chance of passing the Senate?
Another stunning piece from the amazing Bruce Krafft. We have always known that McCarthy and Lautenberg are notorious and unprincipled grave dancers. Now we know that they are also — what is the expression? Ah, yes — full of sh!t.
Okay, we knew that before. But still . . . .
Thanks, Bruce – great post.
As long as they’re telling Obama to Stop the NRA From Making Our Laws, I’d like to make a request to stop the ATF from making our laws.
What part of shall not be infringed don’t they understand?
Bad enough that these two asshats have MSM soapboxes with their affirmatively nodding talking heads, but I blame the citizens of NY & NJ for electing these two in the first place. And then consistently re-electing them.
Mr. Krafft has talent… who said journalism is dead.
Lyingberg (sorry Freudian slip) Lautenberg has always been a hypocrite as are most politicians. He wants a petition we should do one as well every person should email the white house and their representative to pass H.R. 822.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments
http://www.contactingthecongress.org/
http://lautenberg.senate.gov/contact/index1.cfm
Bruce you’ve done it again. Great write-up.
There you go again disparaging Carolyn McCarthy. Don’t you know she’s a victim? Here in NY, that’s considered an accomplishment, and it’s a good thing too because it’s her only one.
And she’s lonely in that, so she just wants company.
It cheers me to see calm clarification presented to counter propagandistic distortions. Nice. I doubt Lautenberg has a problem with the Federally-decreed recognition of state Driver’s Licenses even though the age limit and test requirements vary state-to-state, and a license-taking offense in one state is sometimes a mere penalty-and-fine in another state.
Lautenberg should’ve assumed room temperature a long time ago.Or at least be in some assisted living facility being spoon fed gruel.F*ck him.
@Carolyn McCarthy-boo hoo-if there weren’t such stupid gunlaws in NY maybe someone on the train could’ve dumped the shooter.But no,faith in government watching out for everyone led to a lot of needless loss.
+1
Lautenberg’s been in office for 34+ years, that’s 30 + more than he should have. I don’t have a crystal ball that works so I’m all for writing letters, e-mailing them or making phone calls to make my voice heard. Some have espoused that it will happen. Murphy’s law applies to every aspect in life especially when one does nothing to change the course life will take. Take is what politicians do best.
One way or another, national reciprocity and shall issue will be the acknowledged law of the land within the next five years. Mark my words. It will be a fight but it is a fight that we will win.
The right to self defense and its concomitant right to the tools that make that right meaningful, will at long last be recognized as an inalienable, essential, fundamental human and civil right possessed by “the People” of these several states, via the 2nd, 10th and 14th Amendments to the Constitution.
The next big fight will be NFA de-regulation; Probably silencers first, and then hopefully a repeal of the Hughes amendment. After that, enough states should have constitutional carry (all forms) that it comes up federally.
Honestly, while the NFA fees and such shouldn’t exist, I think it might be easier to repeal it in steps. The first step being that anyone who can pass the background check is automatically allowed to get an NFA item, no extra paperwork and no more requiring CLEO’s to sign off either. Then we repeal the Hughes amendment, and eventually we eliminate the $200 tax so that as long as you’re legally able to purchase a firearm, you can automatically purchase a silencer, full auto weapon, etc without any extra fees or hassles.
Mark your words, Greg? What could possibly make you think that?
The facts are, the NRA failed to prevent Obama from gaining the office after spending a fortune of YOUR money. He’s disappointed everyone on the gun control side of the issue, but we have high hopes for the next term, especially if the Supreme Court changes by just one vote.
No, Greg, I’m afraid it’s going the other way and you’re just whistling in the dark.
Wow Mike, you are a fearsome force. All you can do is talk trash in response to a reasoned deconstruction of a typical anti-SA political campaign. I can see you gloating merrily as the Republic falls. Just add one more post-constitutional supreme court justice and you get your way. I hope your gloating comes as easily when the leviathan you love so much turns it’s back on you and strips away that which you hold dear. In your world it takes just five men in black to turn your joy to weeping. When that time comes, just remember that’s the way you wanted it. You might find some comfort in that. But probably not.
Ah yes, Mikey. Your dream world, where one man gets to appoint a committee of tyrants to strip people’s rights at will. If your dreams come to pass, I only hope that I get to look you in the eyes and say “I told you so” before your precious tyrants strip YOUR rights.
So what if a state passes a law that says that “prohibited persons” includes “anyone who, in the judgement of [bureaucrat X], does not have a legitimate need to carry a firarm”? Looks like a loophole to me, but I haven’t read the bill.
You shouldt need any permit to carry concealed. Period.
I find it hard to accept that more legislation is a good thing when there should be no laws governing it in the first place.
Obama passing HR822 into law?
Obama believes in private gun ownership as much as Adolph Hitler did.
In addition, you have the National Socialist Senate to deal with.
Here’s a scary thought (in some ways but not in others): what if President Obama gets behind the bill? Tells the Senate to pass it and signs it. That would mess with the conservatives’ collective head.
Cool. I’m ready, willing and able to deal with that. I won’t hold my breath though.
You never know. Recently the FDA wanted to make the Plan B pill available over the counter without a prescription, but Kathleen Sebilious (sp?) shot it down for some unknown reason, totally out of character for her and this admin.
I just cannot see Obama or the Senate passing HR822.
I see the bill being passed if it is attached to something Obama wants or needs for 2012 re-election (like a jobs bill).
Hmm…honestly, I think the Republicans should do that. They should submit a bill with a tax increase (even if it’s just say two percentage points) for the “evil” rich and then attach a repeal of the NFA and POFA as part of it.
Wooooow…. I finally get that “shoulder thing that goes up” reference in it’s entirety now. Just watched the video. How do you legislate something that you don’t even know what it is? ¿¿o.O??
Hahahahahaha
Oddly enough, I could see Obama passing it just to gain votes for re-election. However I dont belive it would come to a vote before election time. But lets say it does, he tells the senate to get behind it, he signs it and it becomes law. It would be a huge point that he could take to the people to say how much he is behind and supports the constitution. But beware, AFTER his possible re-election, I could see HR822 be regulated into oblivion afterwards and have the second amendment rendered useless or completely removed, FOREVER! Doing so by using any criminal activity, no matter how small or few, as examples that the people have to be baby sitted and the 2A simply doesnt work in modern day society. He tried it by trusting the common masses, didnt work so it had to be eliminated.
Our rights have been and are continually being carved away for a long time and in such a way that its hard for one to notice and become a normal, accepted thing. We see these arguments here, and places like this, and win them under little to no public view or knowledge. The common media does not touch any gun subject law changes, or does so in a negitive way, briefly. Gun laws are taboo for law makers and media. The less said the better for them. I am waiting for the day that this subject and constitution awareness is as common as a car commercial. The common people would then know just how much or their constitutional rights, ALL of them, that they, WE THE PEOPLE, have been deprived of.
If HR882 does get passed, aren’t a whole lot of people who live in May issue states gonna go get their Florida non-res permits? Especially in commiefornia?
I can see it now HR882: the Concealed Carry loophole.
(which I’m all for)
HR 822 wouldn’t apply in the state in which you reside. So if you’re a California resident and are denied a license, getting a Florida non-resident still wouldn’t help you carry in California. However, you could get a Florida non-res and if you traveled outside of California, you could then carry subject to the rules of that state. There will still have to be separate fights to get those rights respected in those states.
A broken clock is still correct twice a day.
It seems to me that the language in this bill invites the federal government to draft laws to regulate the carrying of firearms in the states.
I see this as a tenth amendment matter. If we cede regulation of carriage of guns to the Feds then they will certainly screw it up because that is the role of federal legislators to keep making more and more laws, and they will do so supporting their interests, not mine.
Mate, you know our beloved Second Amendment is a federal law right? Seems to me that if you want to be consistent there, congress certainly has the right to pass laws concerning guns as long as they don’t “infringe”. State’s rights are well and good, unless they violate basic constitutional rights, which is why we have a national government.
I see this as a tenth amendment matter.
Me too, especially the part about the rights of the people. F^ck the states and their rights. The states are the real gun-grabbers. What about my rights as a human being to defend myself?
If I read one more comment about the 10th Amendment that focuses on the rights of the states and ignores the rights of the people, I’m gonna call bullsh!t. Ah, hell, I’m calling it now.
For some reason what’s written below wouldn’t post in the thread above that it applies to. So, here goes, I’ll try to get it published here.
Mikey, what’s the matter bub, can’t sleep, posting at 3:08 AM?
The first stage of grief is denial, followed by anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance. It appears that you are experiencing several of the stages simultaneously, namely denial, anger and depression. Bummer dude. Is it any wonder that you’re having trouble sleeping at night?
“What could possibly make you think that?” Oh, I don’t know. Maybe Heller and McDonald and the follow-on cases now working their way through the courts. Maybe Illinois getting CCW in 2012 or 2013. Maybe more people exercising their right as indicated by the number of permits being issued and the numbers of guns being sold. Maybe the proliferation of training centers across the country. Maybe the fact the we’re seeing more woman getting permits, training and buying guns. Maybe a whole bunch of other factors too.
“The facts are, the NRA failed to prevent Obama from gaining the office after spending a fortune of YOUR money. ” My membership to the NRA works out to about $25 per year when I re-up for three years at a time, that’s hardly a fortune. Besides, the NRA can’t fix stupid no matter how much money they spend.
Barack Svengali Obama, with his incessant and nebulous mantra of “yes we can” and “hope and change”, managed to mesmerize a significant part of the population that is susceptible to being suckered by cult leaders. What can be said? His time was ripe and he played it to the hilt. I remember well the gushing and fawning by many of my left of center friends and I’ve got to tell you that I found their behavior more than a little unnerving. Cults are like that. As we’ve seen from the so called OWS movement and all the little Obamavilles that sprang up around the country over the last couple of months, there is no shortage of useful idiots to man an army of rebels without a clue. Is that all you guys have got and are they really the best you can come up with?
Do you really think that “The One” is going to get elected to a second term? Do you really think that there are enough of these clueless rebels to swing the next election?
“He’s disappointed everyone on the gun control side of the issue,”. Why yes indeed he has as a matter of fact, except for that little Fast and Furious thing and a few of the “under the radar” things they are working on. Don’t worry Mikey, there will be plenty more blood spilled for you and your friends to dance in before the game is over.
“but we have high hopes for the next term,”. Ahhh, the old “high hopes”, eh. “But he’s got high-i-i hopes, he’s got high-i-i hopes, He’s got high, apple pie, in the sky-i-i hopes.” Dude, you must be high.
“especially if the Supreme Court changes by just one vote.”. That is indeed worrisome, but probably not for the reasons that you’re imagining. I wouldn’t put my high hopes on SCOTUS and I’d be careful what you wish for. Perhaps you can recall a case called Dred Scott vs. Sandford? Do you remember how that ultimately worked out? Trust me pal, we don’t want to go there if we don’t have to.
Come the next election, there is a very good chance that the House will increase its current majority of Republicans and that the Senate will flip to being majority Republican. Regardless of who ends up in the Whitehouse, the odds are slim to nil that vacancies on SCOTUS will be filled by more Kagans or Sotomayors.
“No, Greg, I’m afraid it’s going the other way and you’re just whistling in the dark.”. Yet again, Mikey, you prove beyond any reasonable doubt that your side is utterly incapable weighing evidence, analyzing data and coming to rational conclusions. I can scarcely imaging how much it must truly suck living in your delusional, magical world.
Get some sleep Mikey, you need the rest.
HR 822′s Chances are Better Than Advertised. Apparently.
Not necessarily. More likely, it gives the pros and antis a chance for productive grandstanding to enthrall the folks back home. The real work of the Republic is done in the Senate cloak room where the power brokers carve up our rights like a Christmas goose.
I have been saying all along that the Senate will pass HR822 and Obama will sign it.
It bothers me greatly, as I live in one state and work in another, that I can not take my self defense handgun all the way to work. I dont believe I change when I cross the state line. I doubt Obama would sign this and I doubt there is enough votes to over ride his veto. Damn shame.
Maybe they will cite states with lax driving licenses requirements, and start blocking a NY driver from driving to NJ! These clowns do not seem to admit that they understand that only law abiding citizens care about anti-gun laws, criminals do not give a crap, I should have the right to drive from Ohio to New York, with my registered CCW weapon in order to be able to protect myself any my family from a felon in New York who might have the dumb idea to jack someone from out of state! ,
H.R. 822 STATES: “(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm . . .”
UNDER FEDERAL LAW the following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:
o Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.
o Fugitives from justice.
o Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
o Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
o Illegal aliens.
o Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
o Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
o Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
o Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
o Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
o Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition. Under limited conditions, relief from disability may be obtained from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, or through a pardon, expungement, restoration of rights, or setting aside of a conviction.
THIS IS NOT A STATES’ RIGHTS ISSUE!
“ . . . THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED [Amendment II].” This statement does not create, limit or endow a right; it is an affirmation of a people’s right. It also does not delegate to the United States the power to infringe upon that right. Instead, it prohibits any infringement of that right by any entity, not just the Federal Government of the United States, but also the States or any political subdivision thereof. “THIS CONSTITUTION . . . SHALL BE THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND; AND THE JUDGES IN EVERY STATE SHALL BE BOUND THEREBY, ANY THING IN THE CONSTITUTION OR LAWS OF ANY STATE TO THE CONTRARY NOTWITHSTANDING [Article VI].” All the States have reviewed and ratified the US Constitution, in its entirety, and are thereby bound by it. “THE POWERS NOT DELEGATED TO THE UNITED STATES BY THE CONSTITUTION, NOR PROHIBITED BY IT TO THE STATES, ARE RESERVED TO THE STATES RESPECTIVELY, OR TO THE PEOPLE [Amendment X].” The right (and the power) to “keep and bear arms” is reserved to (and belongs to) the people and the power to infringe on that right is prohibited by Amendment II without any qualification or limitation.
infringe: to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another
This is not an issue of States’ rights but rather is an issue of the Federal Government fulfilling its obligations [Article IV, Section 1 and Amendment XIV] to prevent States from denying citizens’ US Constitutional rights!
Where do I go to get a license for the other rights to the Constitution of the United States of America? I would like all my rights as garranteed by the Bill of Rights. Where might I apply for all my rights, please sir?
I think a CCW permit should be honored in other states as a drivers license is.
This bill needs to be passed. If it is not passed it is a direct violation of our civil rights. The Federal Goverment needs to stop politicians like Mayor Bloomberg from running their states as their own personal Gestapo. He said himself that he has his own “Army” I guess its not bad enough that he changed the term limits to extend his own run in office.
There should be nothing that prohibits the lawful carry of concealed firearms accross state lines by CWP holders; however, any law that allows the federal government to compile a list of those lawful CWP holders, carries a larger danger than not passing HR 822. In the fever to make my Florida permit legal in every state, one must be sure the legislation doesn’t become a “Trojin Horse” allowing unfettered access by the US Department of Justice or the BATF that could at some point result in all of our fundimental rights to own and carry being jeopardized. Please don’t be so naive as to think given the opportunity the Federal Government would not take advantage of the situation should it be presented to them.
I would like to know how many gun crimes are comitted by people who are allowed to own or carry a weapon, Not many I am sure if any. So what is the problem with people having guns. If you have a problem, don’t buy one, leave the rest of us alone.
HR822 is a necessity for anyone traveling to gun un-friendly states. NOW if only sh*tholes like Chicago would allow personnal protection by licensed carriers, then I would feel better.
yeah it sucks that one state does not honer anouther state because they dont honer there state S.C. YOUR A SOUTHERN STATE WHY NOT HONER MISSISSIPPI IF I HAVE NRA TRANING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In Illinois, all peoples are prohibited from carry, open or concealed.This law doesn’t change that. As it stands, if you have a CCW permit from utah and florida, both states which you can receive your permit over the internet and while not being a resident of the state, you can carry in the vast majority of states anyways. This law has very little empowering abilities. In a lot of ways it’s just a wink and a nod to NRA.
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