“A year ago this New Year’s Eve, John Filippidis of Florida was driving south with his family on Interstate 95 when the Maryland Transportation Authority (MTA) Police pulled over his black Ford Expedition and proceeded to raid it while his twins, wife and daughter looked on — separated in the back seats of different police cruisers,” washingtontimes.com reminisces. “The officers were searching for Mr. Filippidis‘ Florida-licensed, palm-size Kel-Tec .38 semi-automatic handgun, which he left at home locked in his safe. (Maryland does not recognize handgun permits issued by other states.)” An event which raised all sorts of questions, the most obvious of which is . . .
How did the MTA know that Mr. Filipiddis had a gun? It’s unlikely that someone dropped the dime on the Floridian. So the police must have tapped into a database of Sunshine State concealed carry license holders. Or, worse, a federal database of gun owners. Which isn’t supposed to exist. On the other hand . . .
According to the blaze.com, the MTA cop allegedly said “You own a gun. Where is it?” That could have been a bluff. You know; like a customs agent asking a de-planing passenger “are you carrying any drugs?” Nowhere do I find an account which says the police knew the make and model of Mr. Fillipidis’ firearm. And then there’s . . .
Hanlon’s razor. “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” Although Mr. Fillipidis says he didn’t know his vehicle smelled like marijuana — the official reason the cops gave for searching his vehicle — maybe Mr. F was high and mentioned the gun. Then again, there’s this . . .
John Tonnesen IV of Lake Worth, Florida, was pulled over and arrested after a search of his work truck — by the same officer who stopped Mr. Filippidis — turned up his .45-caliber Ruger, licensed in the state of Florida. He doesn’t believe the stop was coincidental.
“It was unloaded and stuffed into a bag far from me,” Mr. Tonnesen told The Times. “There’s scanners in Maryland that scan every tag, and Florida is one of their target vehicles. They’ll find whatever reason they can to pull you over.”
Well, that’s two. Perhaps. Not exactly proof that “stories are accumulating” of a secret police program to [illegally] identify and arrest out-of-state gun owners.
Still, stranger things have happened. And the fact that all the cops will say about these incidents is that the searches were legal, raises a red flag. It could be that the police have been instructed to pull Florida tagged vehicles and search for guns – without knowing if they do or do not have a gat.
In any case, the article goes on to point out that Maryland’s newly elected Republican governor seems less than enthusiastic about championing gun rights, in these cases or in general. Who’d a guessed?
[h/t NEIOWA]
Annndd here we see why letting the federal government share data across the land is a bad thing.
Because state data of any type can be shared with DHS-run “State Fusion Centers” (the name may differ – in MDS it’s called the MCAC), who then can share the data with any and all Tribal, state, and/or local LEOs via their LE organization. This scheme was originally set up by DHS in 2011 to gather and share ANTI-TERRORIST information. It seems to have experienced a little “mission creep” since then.
It’s only mission creep if you buy the story that they were established to combat terrorism. Welcome to the dawn of the digital panopticon, and a growing police state that harbors the philosophy that American citizens are the “property” of this increasingly corrupt government.
While perusing the Maryland Transportation Authority Police website I noted that they changed the name of their traffic enforcement team to homeland enforcement and traffic team (heat) after 9-11. Hmm.
The actual system is known as NCIC (National Crime Information Center). Each state then has their own (mine is CCIC for Colorado Crime Information Center). When you “run” someone (I spent most of the last decade as an LEO), you go by name and DOB. The Florida system (probably FCIC) will return his CCW. That would be my presumption as to why he asked “Where’s your gun.”
Unless there was reasonable suspicion (preferably probable cause) for a search, it should only have been a consensual search. It is technically a 6th amendment rights violation if consent was not given. If consent is given, a person as the right to stop a consensual search at any time.
I personally would never consent to a search, and there is no reason any law abiding citizen should either!
I agree with you Jeff, something about this sounds wrong. Guns are not illegal in Maryland and they can be properly transported in Maryland otherwise you wouldn’t be able to drive to the range. Sounds like there are some very important pieces missing from the account.
The other thing I noticed about both stops mentioned in the Washington Times article is that they don’t state why the stop was initiated (Probable cause for the stop). If it was speed, then it had nothing to do with the out of state plates. Upon contact with the driver and after conducting the NCIC search, the CCW would have returned.
Unfortunately, this is a “he said, she said” type situation between the officer and the defendant. There is a reason I always carried a digital voice recorder in my pocket. It was nice when the little white IA envelope would show up in my mailbox for a complaint, and I could provide evidence of what really happened. Here’s a recent one in NC where the dash cam completely contradicted what actually occurred: http://www.policeone.com/officer-misconduct-internal-affairs/articles/7509998-Video-Dash-cam-contradicts-misconduct-claim-by-NAACP-pastor/
That’s why I’m a little suspect on this stop. Not enough information is provided, and we don’t have a clue what the encounter was actually like. In the case of the video link I provided, the supposed “wife” wasn’t even in the vehicle. Just a 6-minute traffic stop.
I wish more people would do ride-a-longs to see what actually goes on in a police car. Most of us are Constitutionalists and not just “out to get everyone.”
I wouldn’t consent to a search either, but they’ll just bring a dog to the scene and have the dog falsely alert on your car so they can search it anyway. LEOs are generally liars. It’s part of the game.
Ever since SCOTUS decided that cops can lie to people to try to get information for convictions, cops have gotten training in how to lie effectively.
Sadly, it tends to be the supporters of the Second Amendment who love to whittle away at the rest because they are more interested in making sure the guilty get caught than in making sure the innocent are kept free, so they keep handing the police more and more power. It’s that power that will eventually be used to attack the Second Amendment, which is why we can’t be one-issue voters: no one who favors even the extreme police authority we see today is a friend of ANY of the amendments in the Bill of Rights.
Why would that show up running a license plate? Florida does NOT link the ccw license with DL nor license plate. It has to be requested separately. FDLE does NOT have that data base. It is kept by FDACS (Florida Dept of Ag and Consumer Services). It is illegal for agencies and entities in Florida to keep lists and registries of lawful gun owners or lists of their guns in the state of Florida. In fact, it is felony for officials and individuals to do that. Therefore, some bull shit is getting pulled for this information to show up on a random traffic stop. Lastly, its equine excrement for a ccw license to be in a National Criminal Information Computer any damn how. That is Joe Stalin type stuff. That said, FDLE was messing around with a system called M.A.T.R.I.X. about 10 years ago, but due to public pressure it was scraped. However, I think there are some lying liars that lye in FDLE, DHS etc.
I met with the Florida Division of Law Enforcement (on behalf of DataBase Technologies) in the late 1990s and negotiated the acquisition and ongoing updates of their databases, in exchange for them being able to access DBT’s combined result … which had more than 700 such databases at the time, and clever software — including mine — to integrate all of it.
==============/ Keith DeHavelle
Amendment IV.
This article is a year old. TTAG posted something on this a year ago. Its here again.
Yep, rerun. Don’t know why this is making the rounds again except lazy journalism.
It’s still stupid. Guy’s wife said he might have a gun in the car. There’s your answer. Thousands drive through MD everyday with permits and don’t get stopped.
And this is why you read the whole story before responding. Of course tragedy reported something like this a year ago, they tell you as much in the first few words of the article. Did you read far enough to see the second more recent incident that was the actual story in this post?
If you really want to be creaped out read up on FirstNet.
The feds are constructing (planning and beta test stages now) a nationwide wireless network that is to cover 95% of the mi2 of the country with 4G or better signal. Will allow cops (etc) to gather/transmit dashcam, “security”cam, trafficam, license/personal database info to from any police car, agency, etc. No restrictions and minimal oversight one how will be operated and what information will be gathered, stored or used. Can be will include massive integration of every database of gov’t agency or private business. Right out of a “fictional” network TV program.
And this massive I.T. infrastructure project is brought to us by the same people who brought us the Obamacare website? I’m scared.
Its Hanlons razor not Heinleins razor?
Whats that’s my fun fact for the new year.
Nvrmind. I am attributing the existence of ‘hanlons razor’ as an example of Heinlein’s razor.
A quick Google shows lots of results for Hanlons razor. You might read up on it, I for one never heard it. Robert j Hanlon is a different person than Robert a Heinlein.
I believe that’s a palm sized .380 …..
I guess it’s just a little easier and lot safer for Maryland cops to intercept cars from Florida than it would be for cops to intercept Bloods and Crips in gang-friendly Baltimurder.
+100 exactly
“I guess it’s just a little easier and lot safer for Maryland cops to intercept cars from Florida than it would be for cops to intercept Bloods and Crips in gang-friendly Baltimurder.”
There’s no sport in busting the Gangsta Boyz.
Easier, safer, *and* more profitable. Bloods and Crips know how to hide their cash and goods, and won’t spend any money on attorneys – unlike middle-aged fathers, who will do everything they can to *not* go to prison. Law-abiding white folks getting pinched for victimless crimes are a bigger cash cow for the legal-industrial complex than “Dindu Nuffins”.
If the best argument you can come up with for doing something is “it’s legal”, think really long and hard about doing it.
wat?
I think he’s trying to say that just because something is legal doesn’t mean you necessarily should be doing it. In this case, the cops are only defending their actions by saying “we didn’t do anything illegal”, rather than explaining what they did and why. When people go straight for that defense, it’s usually a good indicator that they know that, regardless of whether it was legal or not, what they did wasn’t right.
I live in northern Virginia, have a Virginia concealed carry license and drive through Maryland and DC often. Before any trip across the Potomac, I sweep my car to make sure I don’t have as much as a spent shell casing rattling around the trunk.
I have to go through Maryland to drive to visit my son in Minnesota. This makes me very hesitant to do so. I normally carry a 1911 so I meet the magazine restrictions but if I wanted to take my Hi Power or Springfield I would have go west to Winchester and then take Route 50 to avoid Maryland’s magazine restrictions. This is begging for a lawsuit in Federal Court to force Maryland to honor FOPA and to stop interfering in Interstate commerce.
Maryland only bans buying, selling, and transferring to someone 10+ round mags not possessing them.
As long you are not doing any of those things it is legal to have “hi-cap” mags in MD.
I live in MD. I called the state police to confirm what I had heard from gun shops in the area, that magazines over ten rounds are legal to possess. The police said yes, as long as I do not try to sell such magazines in MD. But I still see many news articles that don’t seem to be aware of these nuances, the articles just say that high capacity magazines are banned in MD. I hope all MD cops are aware of the actual legality of possession.
It was three days after the last trip to the range before I found I had a spent .22 case lodged in the tread of my shoe at work.
Of course I would’ve been a very super dangerous criminal mastermind in some states.
If you are transporting through a state, you are protected by the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20121220/guide-to-the-interstate-transportation). But, read it carefully regarding the fact that it doesn’t protect you in a hotel, etc., and it is what is known as an “affirmative defense” that is built into many statutes. You could technically still be arrested.
I think it should be something more than just an affirmative defense, but then we have this thing called lawmakers . . .
He was stopped for speeding and the cop saw his ccw when he was getting his drivers license out of his wallet.
There are plenty of reasons not to like or visit Maryland but enough of the artificial conspiracy stuff.
Maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not. Personally I find it suspicious that the SAME COP was involved in both cases. Sounds a bit like a vigilante cop and mis-use of government resources to me. For which he would be investigated and – if found guilty – punished in a just world. On another note, you bring up an excellent reason not to have your carry license prominently displayed in your wallet.
That’s why I keep my DL in a separate holder in my left back pocket, as opposed to my wallet, which is in my right back pocket, just next to my IWB holster.
Coming from the Slave State of NY, My pistol permit is kept in a separate wallet. My county issues paper permits with you photo glued to it…. so to keep it from falling apart it lays in it’s own flat wallet. I tuck my Florida permit in there as well. I hand the Florida permit to the confused clerks at Walmart that demand to see my pistol permit to buy handgun ammo.
Let’s assume the claim is true, that he “saw the permit” while he was looking for his license. So what. Since when does holding a permit to carry from another state give probable cause to fabricate a “car smelled like pot” excuse to search? Surely you will concede that the pot excuse was a blatant lie…
Conspiracy? What does that even mean? Bad cop and possibly his entire LEO organization? Absolutely.
THIS is why cops get mixed support. There are bad cops. There are good cops. Only when the good cops start to take active roles in expelling the bad cops will this mixed level of support convert to full.
The “thin blue line” CANNOT protect bad cops.
You may want to re-read the article and the first comments. They state that this was the result of a database that the Feds and states are sharing.
I’m not supporting the cops actions or Maryland in general as they both represent things I strongly disagree with. I won’t spend any of my time or money there.
That said, let’s pick our fights carefully and not misrepresent the facts to support a database conspiracy that is not true in this particular case.
Accusing the MD police of targeting out of state gun owners and exploiting government knowledge to do so is as silly as the notion that the IRS would target conservatives or that the NSA would spy on average Americans. Because they would never do that. Right?
I presume you mean “MUST NOT” rather than “cannot”.
Agreed with Don. I wish RF had been more clear about the article stating that supposedly the police made the stops because of speeding etc. Sounds to me like the lesson is don’t exceed the speed limit when driving.
Thing is, speeding is a minor infraction. Yes, if you do speed, then you deserve the fine that you’ll get along with it. But in practice cops use speeding or other driving violations as a pretext to do all kinds of crap, with this being just one example. And in many cases they outright invent those violations because they just want to search your car to find some other reason to detain you (and seize any cash or other valuables you might have through asset forfeiture). Here are some more examples:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/highway-seizure-in-iowa-fuels-debate-about-asset-forfeiture-laws/2014/11/10/10f725fc-5ec3-11e4-8b9e-2ccdac31a031_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/stop-and-seize/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/03/12/cops-use-traffic-stops-to-seize-millions-from-drivers-never-charged-with-a-crime/
Come on now. The idea that Florida would share their CCW database is as preposterous as say….the NSA recording every phone call in America ! Or even better, the ATF selling thousands of guns to the Mexican drug cartels ! Pure poppycock. Another urban myth !!
Almost as impossible as the IRS targeting conservatives. It’s preposterous!
Florida statutes actually protect CCW licensee information, or are WRITTEN to protect that info-wether or not that is the case in practice……………………..Just sayin’ . Florida Satute-790.060- Public records exemption for concealed weapons.—
(1) Personal identifying information of an individual who has applied for or received a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm pursuant to s. 790.06 held by the Division of Licensing of the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is confidential and exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution. This exemption applies to such information held by the division before, on, or after the effective date of this section.
(2) Personal identifying information of an individual who has applied for a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm pursuant to s. 790.0625 which is held by a tax collector appointed by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services to receive applications and fees is confidential and exempt from s. 119.07(1) and s. 24(a), Art. I of the State Constitution. This exemption applies to such information held by the tax collector before, on, or after the effective date of this subsection.
(3) Information made confidential and exempt by this section shall be disclosed:
(a) With the express written consent of the applicant or licensee or his or her legally authorized representative.
(b) By court order upon a showing of good cause.
(c) Upon request by a law enforcement agency in connection with the performance of lawful duties, which shall include access to any automated database containing such information maintained by the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.
(4) Subsection (2) is subject to the Open Government Sunset Review Act in accordance with s. 119.15 and shall stand repealed on October 2, 2019, unless reviewed and saved from repeal through reenactment by the Legislature………..as with everything else YMMV.
Bingo…section C.
Some years ago the state of Florida was selling its entire drivers license database to anyone, public or private-sector who was willing to pay for it, completely without regard to any privacy concerns for its people. That made a big stink when it came out. So, my speculation is not an evil mega-database, but bureaucratic stupidity in the name of “acting entrepreneurially”.
Avoid Maryland, don’t stop. go around. don’t do anything in Maryland…..I avoid all liberal states and their unconstitutional behavior.
That would be a lot easier without that long western panhandle. Come to think of it, politically most of those folks would probably rather be residents of VA or WV. Let’s have the feds retrocede most of DC to MD in exchange for handing over the westernmost counties to another state. The federal district is much too big anyway.
This could be something as simple as “Florida is a State with loose gun laws and I-95 is the Iron Highway.” Could be an anti-gun cop who sees it as his duty to harass, I mean investigate, Florida drivers. Let’s not forget Occam’s Razor during this discussion.
Then why don’t they stop Virginia drivers? We have “lax” gun laws here and shall issue CCW. Why aren’t they stopping cars with Virginia tags on 70/270 or the Capital Beltway?
It might have happened but didn’t make the news although I’m sure VCDL has an ear to the ground about these issues. I don’t recall seeing anything in a VA-Alert. As far as the security of CHL information in VA goes, the Roanoke Times released CHL data back in 2007 or 2008 IIRC.
I don’t doubt the Gov is capable and willing to track CHL owners I just look for simpler reasons first. Or maybe I just want to believe in simpler reasons first.
Sigh.
Exactly, but a deep dark government plot makes a better article.
Right you are. Because there are no government plots. In fact, the G loves us!
It may say something about the accessibility of the Virginia CCW database.
An old bumper-sticker:
“Reds Are Buried In Communist Plots”
Typical coward cop behavior. Instead of applying resources to go after violent criminals, they put them out there doing this kind of crap. No wonder most violent crimes don’t ever get solved. Cowards.
<sarc>
Gods help drivers with Kansas tags, then. We’ve no registry, or course, but that must mean that we’re all armed to the teeth.
</sarc>
We don’t have registries and lists in Florida either. In fact, creating a list of lawfully owned guns or registries of owners is a felony whether it is a gov agency or a punk newspaper editor.
Every time I turn around, SCOTUS or State Courts etc are taking are rights. They are clearly bought and paid for.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maryland.pdf
+1 Ralph. Another reason to avoid visiting my son and grandkids in Maryland. He love Maryland and thinks it’s swell. Arg…
Ask him if he likes OweMalley’s Rain Tax. Or why the price of gas just increased by three cents today.
I’m thinking he’s happy about it. He works for the gubmint…and he told me he disagrees with me 97% politically. Which would make him a communist. Oh well…your kid is always your kid .Even at 40.
This a big YES 100% they are.
As a Florida resident who drives to NY frequently again a 100% yes.
I-95 is a drug and smuggling corridor and anyone(ME) who fits a profile is almost guaranteed to be stopped.
If not in the Carolinas, Maryland for sure.
Just drive Northbound in a Camaro with Florida tags and tinted windows,
Expect a few smoke breaks.
The word NO!! also works well when a cop asks do you know why I stopped you???, and your doing nothing wrong.
The last time a cop stopped me and asked that question, I snapped back “Do I look like The Amazing Kreskin?”
The twerp in blue was so young, he had no idea to whom I was referring, so the retort sorta fell flat.
I’ve always thought that question was stupid. No, I don’t know why a cop stopped me. I’m not a mind reader. Moreover, I’m paying his wages, so why doesn’t he tell me? I paid for his opinion.
They’re trying to get you to admit that you were aware of what you were doing so that if you decide to contest the citation in court they can play the audio and the video of you admitting that you knew why you were stopped. Usually when people are asked this question their bootlicking instincts kick in and they admit to whatever they were doing, thinking that if they’re honest it’ll melt the cop’s heart and he’ll let them off with a warning. They’re not dumb, they know what they’re doing. When asked that question, you should answer with a firm and polite “no” and then say nothing more until they tell you why you were stopped.
“I’m sorry officer. You don’t know why you stopped me?”
How about “No, do I have a taillight out or something?” That’s consistent with an innocent person’s behavior. I wouldn’t say ” Did I do something wrong?” or “Was I speeding?” because I know I’m not doing those things.
Just be sure you’re not carrying “conspicuously large” amounts of cash with you (whatever that is). If you do, they can claim it’s drug money and rob you even without charging you with a crime.
Not one week before this incident my business partner who has a maryland conceal carry permit was pulled over by md bridge & toll authority ( who are operated under homeland security) for his handicap placard hanging from the mirror. That turned into a roadside inteogation of do you have any weapons in here, any bombs and so on until he finally got to do you have a gun on you. He did and was torn because maryland law says we are mr required to inform the officer. After a cold panic he states that he did and had a permit as well. 45 minutes later of good cop bad cop the state troopers let him on his way. I am fully convinced it’s not just picking on florida plates, but they are accessing some kind of list under HS. The state troopers, sheriffs, and town police we talked to about it all said they had no access to that info so it struck them as odd too. Coincidence I think not, there’s just to much amuck now through out the whole system, and we are just revenue to fund it.
He is holding up a Kel-Tec P-3AT .380 not a 38.. Of coarse we never let little details get in the way of the abuse of power.
I don’t get this whole article. How can police just stop someone and start searching their vehicle without any probable cause? How does stopping someone for speeding give them the right to search a vehicle for drugs or anything else?
I saw a video on YouTube of a police stop. The driver informed the officer that he was being recorded. The officer asked “have you been drinking” (it was a late night sobriety check stop) and the guy simply said “I’m sorry Officer but I don’t answer questions”. He stuck to that and they eventually let him go.
If they really want to search your car then of course you can’t stop them, but suppose you say “I do not consent to any search of my person or my vehicle”. If they search and find a bullet or something, how do they make that stand up in court? Do they tell the judge “we had probable cause because this guy just looked like the type that would have illegal bullets in his car”?
Like I said, I don’t get it.
Just another wrinkle on the hoary old corrupt practice of picking on out-of-state motorists. When law enforcement becomes just another revenue-producing agency, it’s never good. There are already agencies with that mission.
Thus my long-time contention that fines levied on citizens should never go to the agencies that levy/impose them. They shouldn’t go to any government agency, for that matter, that has funds in the same budget as the levying agency. I figure something like: fines from county agencies should be sent to the state to fund hospital patients who can’t afford to pay, while fines from state agencies should be divided among something like food banks. Since I don’t think the federal government should be allowed to fine individual citizens… well, since they do, send the money back to counties for fixing roads or parks or such.
Same cop, same out of state driver, same mysterious psychic gun detection. What are the odds there is no conspiracy, and this guy just has a police contact in FL who is willing to check databases (illegally) for him? No vast conspiracy, no inexplicable stupidity; Ockham’s Razor beats Hanlon’s Scissors.
Been said before…the difference between police departments and criminal gangs is the cops have a shiny little badge.
I was pulled over by same agency at same spot in 2012. I was driving a Texas Plated SUV.
First words out cops mouth: Do you have a CHL?
Second words: Where is it?
There is no secret database. They are just pulling over cars from gun friendly states and presuming guns are in them. m ade that journey along I-95 through MD maybe 30 times over several years, TX, FL, GA, VA etc always pulled over. MD, DC, NJ, NY, CT etc rarely.
I can answer a bit about the database question.
My software was involved in the construction of a national information system. It was the product of DataBase Technologies (DBT), a firm later involved in the Florida 2000 election (a deal that I helped negotiate). The original concept was to support insurance companies, but soon the Clinton administration bought into it at it expanded to include (as of 1998) more than 700 law enforcement databases from around the country.
That database contained concealed weapons permits, vehicle (including boat) registrations, family, known associates and their own weapons status, every address associated with them, and of course criminal history. I ran a report on me: it was 60 pages, and this was early days yet. Soon shopping data from grocery check-outs was added.
DBT donated all use of the database to find missing children, and contributed a lot to this cause. Hank Asher, founder of DBT and a long-time friend, was later attacked in the media because he’d been an FBI informant which the media treated as “a drug runner.”
His system was sold off to another company, then another, and still exists and is still in use today. It is not owned by any government, thus does not have the restrictions about gun registries that Congress et al. are subject to. I consider this a big problem, of course, but my role in this was relatively small at the time and non-existent now.
The version of the system specifically optimized to support police following a vehicle was code-named DARLA back in the 1990s. Under the Bush Administration, the overall system was called “Total Information Awareness” and then changed from “Total” to “Terrorist” to sound less intrusive.
It exists, it is extremely intrusive, and it was not at the time and probably still isn’t connected to the separate collection efforts of the NSA. It is also unconnected to the monitoring done under the Bush Administration of a few hundred al Qaida associates after 9/11, which was shut down under Bush then re-launched and expanded to 150 million Americans by the Obama administration after his election.
The TIA system is completely the work of private enterprise, created for benign purposes, intended originally as a service to companies getting ripped off by new clients.
It was pressed into service and even by 1998 was doing things like spotting criminals from grocery store receipts, even if out of state. One famous case at the time involved a murderer from California who liked a particular spicy food and had a couple of other preferences — and someone with this combination of habits showed up in receipts from a Seattle grocery store. They staked the place out and busted him there.
When thinking about gun registries, we have to think in terms not of creating the system (it’s way too late), but restricting access to it.
==============/ Keith DeHavelle
Its a felony under Florida law for a private company to create lists of lawful gun owners or registries of their guns. It is also a felony for agencies as well. If the Florida AG could get the evidence that this company is doing that, I am sure Marion Hammer and the rest of us will try and nail their peckers to a stump.
Hmm … I negotiated this deal with the AG’s staff. And DBT, at the AG’s request, used the combined database to filter Florida felon voters. What the Dems did with this list later screwed things up … as did restrictions placed on DBT (can’t use race to distinguish duplicates, etc.).
==============/ Keith DeHavelle
>> don’t get this whole article. How can police just stop someone and start searching their vehicle without any probable cause? How does stopping someone for speeding give them the right to search a vehicle for drugs or anything else?
There are two possibilities. Either the driver is not aware of the legal intricacies, and unwittingly consents to a search. Or, if he does not, but they still want to search the car real bad, they bring in K9 (courts said that they’re allowed to detain you long enough for that). Mysteriously, a dog will always “signal” for the presence of drugs or guns or whatnot in such circumstances, and that gives them probable cause for a search.
Hanlon, Murphy, Heilein, Occam…. I like this one:
Grey’s Law: “Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice”
This again? I swear, some people will make up a conspiracy to explain anything.
The guy got pulled over for speeding (not 2mph over, either). Maybe he officer saw his permit, but it also could have been a bluff- it happens. But the officer didn’t search his car based on that, he searched it based on the fact that numbnuts’ wife said ‘gee golly, ossifer, he’s probably got his gun in the glove compartment!’
Well, not that exactly, but she was the one that caused all this… not some imaginary system that, if it existed, would have to stop thousands of people (including me) who travel on the corridor with permits.
Umm, the mere possibility that a firearm is in a vehicle is not probable cause to search, since it is legal to transport firearms in vehicles (as long as the requirements of FOPA are met).
Yes, this is sure to give gun owners more incentives to support “common sense gun measures!” by golly!
/sarc/
In my case I was pulled over for supposedly speeding in Maryland.
The State Trooper of rather smallish stature asked me. Do you know why I stopping you??.
I of course said no.
Then he asked if I had any guns, drugs or other weapons in the car??
I said yes, yes, yes, what would you like?? Knowing they were all stored 100% legally as per Federal laws.
He asked me to step out of the car. I removed the keys and locked the doors.I then showed him my driver license. He went back to his car to call me in.
I had in plain view a locked and enclosed rifle case, my locked and unloaded with no ammo in the car at all gun safe. All in the rear of the car as it has no trunk.
My prescription drugs including narcotics sitting on the passenger seat in a over the shoulder bag.
He came back and asked if he could inspect my car. I said in a very firm voice NO.
He then said he was going to arrest me and I asked why??
Refusal to allow an inspection of in plain view objects???
So I recanted and let him look.
This nitwit of a cop even looked through the ashes in my cars ashtray and the floor mats.
I asked him what the hell are you looking for??
He said crack cocaine residue.
I said what?? Are you nuttz,
I ended up with a 30 minute smoke break.
And a warning for going 71mph in a 70 zone.
I then left shaking my head and muttering what a jack ass.
About 2 miles up the road was a mini van also Florida plates and a black man sitting on the grass.
3 cruisers, 1 canine unit, and the cops tearing the mans truck apart.
Think this doesn’t happen all day long on I-95 Northbound.
Think again.
I’m surprised this is the first time you’ve noticed this. It’s been a story for a while.
When this first broke (several months ago) it was very clear that the Florida database of CHL holders was accessible to the Feds via a DHS “Fusion” center, which then makes the data accessible to all states. Meaning the State of Maryland has access to the information about Florida CHL holders.
The claim is that this isn’t a Federal Database…It’s a Federal View of Integrated Data Systems….Which is parsing vocabulary.
The scary component of this is that MULTIPLE state law enforcement agencies have been administratively contributing data to the Fed’s…So places that have said, “we won’t share this data” in the legislature have been trumped by a junior or midlevel clerk responding to a Fed inquiry….Or a State guy want’s access to the Feds data and is told, “sure, we’ll give you access…can you get us a copy of your States CHL holders list?” and then the State guy goes to his contact at DPS (Data Systems) and passes a copy off to the Feds.
I am from Maryland. It is one of the original 13 Colonies, they have never, ever, lost the view that the people who live there are Subjects who exist to provide revenue to the Crown.
I was stopped for obvious speeding in MD last November and had a trunkful of guns. Big mag auto and an AR with large 20 rounders. I didn’t get searched and wasn’t worried because I don’t live in MD and can pass through with my guns as long as I don’t stop for any reason except The Popo pulling me over. He got grilled because his wife foolishly told them he was carrying a loaded pistol. I have an NRA license tag as well and they still didn’t hassle me.
YMWV as usual.
Let’s look at the the real problem from with some perspective. Too many laws. Too many law enforcement officers (apparently with not enough to do in Maryland. Not enough U.S. Constitution. Not enough personal responsibility.
It is our personal right and responsibility to protect ourselves and our families. Some call it our natural right (GOD given out here in fly-over country).
Don’t take this wrong, but the police’s job is to come clean up the mess and take the perpetrators to the jail to await trial and punishment or the morgue pending burial, not to “prevent” crime. By the time the the dutiful police officer arrives, what ever is going to transpire is over.
Driving Through Maryland – How The Lawful Florida Gun Owner Was Targeted… Hint: Maryland Coordination and Analysis Center
“Maryland State has a network of technical security databases which access the databases of all other states who comply and coordinate with them. For states who do not willfully comply, or those who are not set up to align technically, Maryland mines data from various LEO systems.”
-Conservative Treehouse
This isn’t the first time this story has appeared and both camps are right– Yes, there is an information sharing network in place for cooperative states. OTOH, it’s also simply a matter of information availability. If a newspaper can grab the name and address of every CCW holder within a given city and publish them, what makes you think Maryland law enforcement is going to have a hard time doing so?
Sure, I have no doubts John Filippidis name popped up on the radar. Again. While I’m not sure FL actively shared it with MD, there’s little doubt that MD has a pretty aggressive data mining network in place to find it, no interstate cabal necissary.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4w-XQtQNlQ John Tonnesen’s dash cam video. Mr. Fiippidis was pulled over by the same officer three months later. I wish i could get his dash can too. Officer Green of the Maryland transport authority police told the washington times article Officer Day could not see Mr Tonnesens hands, thats why he was searched him, BS, in the video officer day clearly asks him to get back in his window a bit because he has both hands visible for the comfort of the officer. “As for Mr. Tonnesen, a search of his vehicle was justified after the same officer felt threatened and that Mr. Tonnesen was hiding something as both of his hands weren’t readily visible. He was also pulled over for speeding.”
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/dec/30/gun-owners-fear-maryland-cops-target-them-for-traf/#ixzz3OrFkF9qe
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