ATF Has Received Over 21,000 Comments on Pistol Brace Regulation…Is Yours One Of Them?

1. Yup. And I don’t own one and never intend on owning one. That doesn’t nobody else can have one. Everyone should be able to own what they wish. End of story.

   • While I think braces are among the most pointless things ever created, I support the right of the people to own what they desire. But we need to face facts, maybe less than 1% of people who braces do so because of a disability or use them one handed, people own them as end run around the NFA. (I do think the NFA is unconstitutional though, so yeah). The ATF knows this, you know this. So when companies come out saying this is hurting disabled people……no one is really being honest.

     I am however curious as to where this 21,000 number is coming from, I just checked, there are only 5,440 comments submitted as 2114 CST 12/22/20.

     I also implore people to learn how to write an effective comment. Spouting off about how you feel this an unconstitutional gun grab is not an effective comment, and most the comments I read were in line with this. Attack the actual specifics of the proposed rule, use existing case law, make a legal argument……not an emotional one

     • Chicago Steve, First you say braces are among the most pointless things ever created. Then you say people own them as end run around the NFA.

       If you think that is the reason for owning them, then it sounds rather ingenious, and far from pointless.

     • I just checked at 0502 CST on 23 DEC 2020 and saw two numbers of comments. On the National Archives of the Federal Register there were 48,354 comments shown. When you click on the little “i” for more information, it says that ATF has to review them before they are posted. When you click on the link to read the comments, it only lists 5,449 comments, so I guess their editors are a little behind!

2. Yes, plus sent email to Congressman and both Senators and the White House online comment page, but when I tried to call the White House Comment Line at 202-456-1111 I was told that the Comment Line was “temporarily closed” which I guess is code for you people keep bugging us. Keep up the pressure because it looks to be working!

3. Just a preview of things to come. They know who’s coming into the White House and yes, they will be coming for our guns.

4. Twenty thousand ain’t enough. ,,,,,,I thought about leaving them a comment, then I thought probably whatever I said wouldn’t help much, leave that up to the guys that can spell and use big words I said. I dont think, “I’d like for you sons a bitches to die along a road and give me sumthin to eat.” Would have been a good comment.

   • Maybe not a good comment for the ATF, but a fine one for the POTG.

     Except the eating part. I’d prefer that the ATF eat itself. Autoanthropophagy?

   • Well, personally, I’d consider it tainted meat. But then I’ve always said that if it crawls, walks, flies, or swims I would probably eat it (and may have after 30 years mil), so I may have to re-think it all. 🙂

5. Ok. Even though I think they’re a silly novelty I submitted my letter of opposition to the ATF’s action on pistol braces. No matter what, they shouldn’t be illegal. I think it’s a blatant attempt to harass otherwise legal firearms owners. And said so. I also included a rundown of my credentials. Easily verified by them as they have access to LEO data bases. My apologies to the Doubting Thomas’s out there in TTAG Land.

   • What ever happened to live and let live? This should bother nobody. If you don’t like it don’t buy it. It doesn’t make any firearm any more lethal. If anything it makes an ar15 pistol easier to conceal under long coats. The receiver extension tube will still be there, but no brace. If the ATF can go back and forth on their thoughts on braces, that alone should make them fine to own. The rule of lenity is exactly where this type of stuff fits in.

   • I used to read all your comments in the past, but lately they’ve been kinda all over the map, so I sometimes doubt if a ‘Gadsden’ post is really you or not.

     When someone started impostering me, I finally got a gravatar.

     • Haz, it’s me. I’m all over the place because some of the subjects are. I posted my contact 14 last night. I was reviled for it. possum called me this afternoon. We talked for over two hours. Enjoyed it very much. Feel free to do the same.

     • Gadsden Flag kinda brags a lot but he’s the real deal . A person could learn a lot from his advice. Glad I’m not a person, no really, people suck, the only thing good about humans is they’re easy to skin and cook. ,,,,whatcha talkin bout.

       • Whatever the fffff I’m babbling about,nnnnnnnever mind, I’m three lines deep in moonshine. Itchy pichey pull dead skin, Im hope n,never get burnt agin. …. Yes , I’m the kinda of person your going to take somthing away from, do you have any clue to how many of Me are out here? Your nuttier then I am. My girlfiend alone can wipe out a battalion. Dont think so, ?well shes part chimpanzee and meaner then a wolverine. I seen her rip a locking gas tank stopper thing off,bare handed, then shes got the keen eye and ain’t skeered of nothin. She does the light work, when it gets into the M102 category I ask her in need of assistance. Where’s JoeR when u need him, by gawd he’d tell yah,…whoop whoop

       • “I’m three lines deep in moonshine. Itchy pichey pull dead skin, Im hope n,never get burnt agin. ….”

         Possum, pain pills and moonshine combined will kill your ass.

         We need your marsupial humor in TTAG… 🙂

       • Now possum, I wasn’t bragging. I was boasting. There’s a subtle difference. 😆

       • that comment nails it. certainly an individual who has accomplished much.
         it’s just difficult for some to start out on the braggadocio foot.

   • Good for you Gadsden! I mean that Sincerely.

     • looks like ol elmer fuddd got the hint. Next on the list: “Why AR’s are the most popular gun, and why you should own one”.

6. Moderated huh? Hummm wonder what word touched a nerve

7. Come on people, only 21k? That should be hundreds of thousands. I wonder how many people have them and are completely oblivious to this.

   • That number is over 24 hours old since it is only through noon yesterday. Remember they released this on a Friday to get it ignored for as long as possible and so the bonehead media can say it is old news when they start up on the Monday before Christmas (yesterday).

     • The problem is, most of us have so little faith in the system, that we figure why bother writing a comment to these clowns. They do what they want. They’re just going through the motions required. This comment period is just a formality.

8. Tell the ATF I want to keep my SBR? Wonder why so few people jumped on this band wagon?

9. ive been leaving one complaint comment per day
   no profanity
   just a lot of stupid dumb ridiculous and asinine
   some vague references to ruby ridge waco and the founding
   about government types going too far and the consequences that resulted for everybody involved
   left oklahoma city out of it
   there were innocents there
   cant say the same thing about the government types at ruby ridge and waco
   they for the most part got what was coming to them
   going to leave another one here shortly

10. Yes. In much the same way I imagine I’d flap my arms if I fell off a tall building.

11. I have made a number of comments and will continue to do so.

12. as of 17:20 today, yes.
    does this item not potentially allow access to self defense, hunting and target shooting for some who might otherwise be hampered to do so?
    these devices should be protected.

13. My comment is there along with all of my identifying information and for once no profanity toward BATFECES.

    Maybe we could take a page from the dems and have some dead people and fictitious people comment. Maybe we could have more people comment than there are gun owners. Can we get dominion to handle the comments for us?

    • Start posting quotes from our founding fathers under their names. That’d be amusing.

      • As long as the birthdate is 1901…

14. I don’t understand how ATF can regulate something that falls under the Americans with Disabilities Act folks.

    I’ve seen the ADA in action and they are relentless.

    just wondering….

15. So what ever I said got moderated and did not appear. I did not flame.////// ,,,Lier,, lawyer,,,cop ,gunm nut,, teachure, ,working for the Man, what’s the difference. Whoooo are you to whave your finger(moderate, moderations / first admemdament) , Iiiiiiiieye ball deep in muddy waters. , Take walk in quick sand,,, you must think I’m high, high. ,,,,God bless Putin,because he is the only one in Power Play that believes in God

16. The common sense thing to do would be to get rid of the distinction of a rifle with X length of barrel or overall length as a SBR period. A pistol, rifle or SBR all retain the same lethality regardless of overall length, can we appeal to logic? Are the arguments or reasons for classifying short rifles as SBRs because they can easily be concealed? That reason is always cited. How do we know? What are the reasons? If we knew that maybe we could attack this problem from an entirely different angle and in the process get a 2A win. Honestly, if anyone knows the answer to my question it would make a good discussion and possibly spur some good comments to the ATF on braces.

    I would even almost rather pay a $100 or $200 fee for a rifle that would fall into the SBR category when I purchase through a dealer as a fee if we got rid of tax stamps for SBRs and end this whole debate. I would surmise losing revenue with getting rid of SBR tax stamps would be a reason not to, this would incentivize them maybe that deregulating them wouldn’t be a loss.

    I will say, that I believe ARs with braces may be being targeted due to the abuse how they were used. Not to say I dont think the likely incoming admin and his neo-liberal fascists dont have an absolute anti-2A agenda. How many youtube videos show shooters fully shouldering the pistol brace? Is this a situation where we called fired on our own position? If I remember the wording was something likely, “incidental contact”. despite how I feel or whether I agree with the law as written, when you fully shoulder a brace, not incidental contact and record videos of it, and put them out there, can you blame the ATF? Look, I think its all BS, but we may be the victims of our own success and now we are here. I don’t know gents. I’m sure the hate will spew forth after I hit post. It seems like we are debating rearranging chairs on the Titanic at this point, we have been piece by piece infringed in our 2A rights, we should be fighting bigger battles that make issues like this obsolete. We are fighting defensively. Sorry, Trump was not our big 2A savior, I’m sure that hurts some feelings but it is what it is. Lets get some real grassroots efforts to repeal 1968, 1986 GCA and so on. We still haven’t gotten suppressors of the tax stamp list, a freakin device that helps you keep your hearing for crap sake. In Europe, not using one is seen as rude. Tell me all about it, I’m partially deaf in one ear, and have constant tinnitus in the other from 30 years of banging away at it in bldgs., vehicles, etc…

    So, yeah lets fight this, but lets also start really fighting on the offensive and quit being reactive.

    • once you see the appearance and legality of weapons like the “shockwave”…the continued restriction of SBR’s makes no sense…even Canada permits the sale of certain weapons restricted by the BATF….

    • I found an answer to one of my questions in the latest from the ATF.

      “Consequently, following issuance of this notice, ATF and DOJ plan to implement a separate process by which current possessors of affected stabilizer-equipped firearms may choose to register such firearms to be compliant with the NFA,” ATF announces. “As part of that process, ATF plans to expedite processing of these applications, and ATF has been informed that the Attorney General plans retroactively to exempt such firearms from the collection of NFA taxes if they were made or acquired, prior to the publication of this notice, in good faith.”

      Ok, this takes the issue of not deregulating SBRs as a money issue off the table, if they are willing to forgo the $200 bones, but still want us to register them, its about the registration, not the money or for public safety. Its about getting a large portion of AR owners to REGISTER. Just like the way the new 4473 is set up so that the buyers name and firearm with serial number on top front page, so when they thumb through FFL records they can easily record ALL the information to digitize for REGISTRATION. This is their big push. Since, the FBI does not show a trend or even a data point in crime stats committed with SBRs or AR’s with pistol braces, what is the purpose of SBRs needing a tax stamp and ATF approval? NONE! Its a fraud, why are we even debating, wasting time trying to reason or show legality to another criminal fraud agency?

      If that isn’t enough, in Shuttlesworth v. City of Birmingham, Alabama, 373 U.S. 262, in which the court determined, “If the State converts a right (liberty) into a privilege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right (liberty) with impunity.”

      So, why the hell do we even care what the ATF says or does? Well, because they’ll enforce their criminal behavior on us. What if 10 million gun owners say screw you, and we all made SBRs? Cant prosecute us all, and the ones you do, we will fund their defense with the above law and precedent with the best damn lawyers in the nation until they stop , or

      Enough is enough criminals.

      • The ATF will carefully go after just a few of the millions that do not comply. The will make an example of these “criminals” and the rest will reluctantly fall in line when they see the news of someone’s property and freedom taken away.

17. Define Improper, I told them that they were at fault for the deaths of innocent civilians and border agents from Fast and Furious and there shame in Waco and there arbitrary decisions to put legal commerce into for sale signs was shameful. Improper?

18. This is now up to 48K+ comments. They’re still getting put in there.

19. Sorry TTAG, Ammoland had a great article I thought your readers needed to see.

    Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2020/12/atf-brace-factors-feign-understanding-backed-up-by-future-threat/#ixzz6hPwSS0MI
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

    U.S.A. – -(Ammoland.com)- “ATF recognizes that before issuance of this notice, there was a misunderstanding by some that a pistol assembled with any item purported to be a stabilizing brace still would be considered a ‘pistol’ regardless of other characteristics,” the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms admits in its “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with ‘Stabilizing Braces’” rulemaking proposal, posted and accepting comments now at Regulations.gov. “The objective factors discussed here make clear that while some stabilizing braces may lawfully be used on pistols without bringing the firearm within the purview of the NFA, that is not necessarily the case for every ‘pistol’ because some firearms are configured or have characteristics such that they meet the statutory definition of ‘rifle or shotgun’ (hereafter, ‘affected stabilizer-equipped firearms’).”

    That any misunderstanding exists is solely on the Bureau.
    The contradictory on again/off again back-and-forth over what is or is not considered whatever they want to call it is pretty much their M.O. One day you’re the satisfied owner of the lawfully-obtained property; the next, government diktat transmutes it into a forbidden liability, with life-destroying felony implications for anyone innocently caught up in a capricious bureaucratic net cast by people who either can’t make up their minds or have their minds made up for them by hidden, politically-motivated string pullers.

    “ATF understands that most individuals who acquired affected stabilizer-equipped firearms did so in good-faith reliance on representations, made by those selling the stabilizing braces or the firearms, that those firearms were not subject to the NFA,” ATF continues, pointing fingers at and blaming those who rely on its arbitrary rule interpreters to tell them how to navigate through the government’s bureaucratic minefield.

    “I can tell you ATF has documented the fact they have not processed industry submissions and are NOT providing guidance to be compliant to the NFA and GCA, but are however more than willing to threaten to prosecute when something is not compliant,” friend, colleague, and firearms designed Len Savage observed when ATF was still crafting these rules in secret. “They are in effect saying ‘We won’t tell you what’s legal, but we will be more than happy to bust you.’”

    They’re saying they won’t – provided they’re convinced that you intend to be obedient.
    “Consequently, following issuance of this notice, ATF and DOJ plan to implement a separate process by which current possessors of affected stabilizer-equipped firearms may choose to register such firearms to be compliant with the NFA,” ATF announces. “As part of that process, ATF plans to expedite processing of these applications, and ATF has been informed that the Attorney General plans retroactively to exempt such firearms from the collection of NFA taxes if they were made or acquired, prior to the publication of this notice, in good faith.”

    Show them your intentions are submissive and they won’t bring the guns out – yet.
    “This separate process may include the following options: registering the firearm in compliance with the NFA … permanently removing the stabilizing brace from the firearm and disposing of it, replacing the barrel of the firearm (16” or greater for a rifle, or 18” or greater for a shotgun), surrendering the firearm to ATF, or destroying the firearm,” ATF recites from its terms of surrender. “Until that process is separately implemented, and absent a substantial public safety concern, ATF will exercise its enforcement discretion not to enforce the registration provisions of the NFA against any person who, before publication of this notice, in good faith acquired, transferred, made, manufactured, or possessed an affected stabilizer-equipped firearms [sic].”

    Thanks, guys! That’s mighty considerate of you, especially since you’ve made it more than clear that failure to ask “How high?” when you order “Jump!” will be considered “bad faith,” and bring with it all the attendant enforcement and punishment consequences.

    We sure are a far cry from “shall not be infringed,” are we not?
    What we’re seeing is an emboldened ATF leadership ramping up those infringements in what looks for all the world like Acting Director Regina Lombardo auditioning for a permanent spot with the Harris administration (and yeah, that was intentional). Between the braces, colluding with Team Biden and the Polymer80 raid, breaking claims of another company raided over Form 1 suppressor build parts, they are signaling that they are ready, willing, and eager to do whatever it takes to facilitate the Democrat citizen disarmament agenda.

    True, we see efforts like the one being led by Gun Owners of America asking Donald Trump to fire Lombardo. I wish them well and I have signed their petition myself, but I’m not holding my breath – on top of having his hands full with “stop the steal,” Trump hasn’t exactly shown himself to be truly understanding of the Second Amendment, especially with the “bump stock” rule his administration imposed. Nor has he been receptive to petitions that point out simple truths and ask him to do easy things. That and we don’t know what his advisors are telling him about how such a move will play in the press for him, and what kind of pile-on he could then expect from outspoken “moderate” Republicans looking to virtue signal for the media.

    For the record, I hope he proves me dead wrong.
    I encourage every gun owner advocate to comment before the January 4 cutoff. No, I don’t think it will do any good at changing anyone’s minds—they’re telling us what they’re going to do and this is just a formality. Feel free to argue logic and law and technology if you’re capable and so inclined, but my message to them will be a lot simpler:

    I will not comply. I will not disarm.
    If there is not massive noncompliance with the rule that comes out of this, they’ll only be encouraged when the time comes to order the surrender of our semiautomatics.

    I can only tell you what I have done in the past when confronted with similar demands.

    I understand there will be some of you who won’t want to comment because you “don’t want to be on any lists.” It’s a little late for that, and if you exercise a bit of commonsense restraint and don’t write anything “actionable,” you will be well within your rights.

    We’re never going to secure freedom if a critical mass is afraid to even speak out.

20. Go head waste your Fu**** ng time posting to the ATF registry posting .
    We all know where this is going .
    We – the patriot community has had about enough . Like a retired cop buddy of quoted Conan —
    ” enough Talk !! ”
    Biden get’s in – or not – the ATF is all but out of control … remember Waco and Ruby Ridge .
    The civil war is coming . The patriot and Militia movement in the 90″ was trying to warn people . We were just 30 years clairvoyant and there is not a damn thing anyone can do to stop it now .
    You’re gonna have an IRA stye civil war that could easily Last 20 years … think I’m nuts .. ok let’s hope so .
    But Matt Bracken – ex Seal has look at it and written fiction book on this crap .. you go tell him he’s nuts .
    http://enemiesforeignanddomestic.com/about.html

    • Agreed.

21. Theres only one way to be safe: take apart your guns, put the parts in oily rags, put the rags into PVC pipes, seal them up and bury them vertically in a place only YOU know about.

    Then when the BLM/Antifa gangs are rampaging thru your hood you can rest easy knowing your guns are safe!

    • To be used when, exactly?

      • The same time you dig up the grenades and pipe bombs you buried in the other locations.

22. Out of those 21,000+, who simply said “come and take them” lol.

    I know at least 1.

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