You gotta hand it to those overachievers at the ATF(E and sometimes RBFs). Up to their asses in alligators over Fast & Furious, called in to investigate a local law enforcement peccadillo, and yet they still find time to reach out and touch someone(s). In this case, the someones would be those buyers who made the faux pas of buying more than one gun inside a five-day period. So how does this new Community Outreach Program work? Let’s check in for the exclusive from PrisonPlanet.com and see . . .
So let’s say you have a cordial, long-standing relationship with your local sporting goods emporium. You buy all your stuff there – guns, ammo, supplies. Been dealing with them for years. Over the decades, you’re into them for some serious coin, and they know it. Which is why, as one of their best customers, you’re treated like family. (Not like MY family mind you – but “family” in the Norman Rockwell sense of the word.)
You buy that 30.06 you’ve had your eye on for a while. Later that week, you get to thinking that it might be a good idea to check out those series 4 Glocks for home defense. Can’t be too careful. So you buy one. No worries, you hand over your CHL and the store does another instant check, which you pass with flying colors. You head home. A few days later, you get a knock at your door.
A couple of guys that look as if they stepped right out of Men in Black greet you from behind their Ray Bans. They’re from the ATF, and have some questions for you as to why you bought more than one firearm in such a short period of time. You wonder, “why are these guys bothering me, an upstanding citizen?” This thought is followed shortly thereafter by “What business is it of theirs how many guns I buy – or own,” and “How in the Sam Hill did they know about my recent gun purchases?”
How did they know? Well, according to our compadres at PrisonPlanet.com, the ATF is putting the screws to your friendly neighborhood gun dealer, and forcing him to rat you out.
According to several gun dealers in Austin as well as one of our own staff members, the ATF is visiting people’s homes, demanding to be allowed inside without a warrant, and implying that gun owners could be terrorists for purchasing two or more firearms at a time.
Nice. Warrantless, forced/coerced searches. Intimidation. Threats. All in day’s work over at Jackbooted Thugs ‘R’ Us, but the home delivery angle is a new wrinkle. The “softer side” of the ATF? Hardly. Here’s the kicker:
This is all based on a directive from the federal government that is completely outside of the law and unconstitutional. The law that would have required gun dealers in border states to report sales of two or more semi-automatic rifles to the ATF was “stripped entirely from the text of the regulation” when it came up for a vote in Congress on April 15, but as part of the Obama administration’s dictatorial zeal to accomplish its agenda outside of the law, the program is going ahead anyway.
The federal government is enforcing a law that was never passed.
If you’d like to lay your peepers on the letter going out to the gun dealers, head on over to PrisonPlanet, where they have links to the PDF. If this doesn’t scare the pants off you/make you angry/agree that the ATF has got to go, then you’re not paying attention.
I just read the ATF has been sued over their reporting requirements. Can’t wait to see how it plays out.
Seriously, Alex Jones?
I thought he was busy uncovering the Vatican-Reptiloid conspiracy, but maybe he’s franchising now.
+1.
Brad found it on the Internet so it must be true.
Hey, we found you on the internet.
and me too, don’t forget.
Do any of you guys even for a moment realize that what Brad is carrying on about is something that should be accepted by everyone, especially you?
Multiple purchases of long guns would be easily explained and justified if your purposes are legitimate. For one thing you’d have the guns there or you’d be able to say exactly where they ended up. You’d have nothing to hide.
On the other hand, if you’re a straw purchaser or a gun smuggler who can still buy stuff yourself, you wouldn’t be able to explain your way out of it and you’d go to jail.
Proper gun control, the way I see it, is going to require a good bit of “home visits” by the authorities. You should get used to the idea.
Mike:
There is a little thing called the 4th Amendment. It is one of those individual rights like free speech and freedom to own firearms. It applies to you even if you have nothing to hide. Confronted by the ATF I would politely ask to see their warrant and lacking one I would “request” that a get one at which point I would be happy to comply with their requirements.
The ATF has become the American Gestapo. I could say Stasi but the Stasi was actually good at what they did.
1. Mike is from the UK.
2. The UK has no Bill of Rights. All rights are granted by the state, and therefore can be removed by the state simply by a simple majority vote.
3. From what I understand, in the UK one can be forced to testify against oneself.
4. He’s a subject, not a citizen. Its culturally a different frame of mind.
5. Don’t feed the trolls. 🙂
I like mike. He may be wrong but he can be entertaining.
He is also an educator. His British perspective explains why we are an independent nation.
We are only seperated from him by a common language.
Mike is an American living in Italy.
I must have missed the requirement to justify why I bought more than one gun in a period of time.
There goes the “if you have nothing to hide” justification for State Power. If ATF had nothing to hide we’d be getting the real story on this. After all, we pay for the agency.
So our American in Italy is in favor of resources being spent on home visits rather than real police work.
I for one don’t accept it that easily. I am a Federal Official and took an oath to uphold the The Constitution. It seems BATF doesn’t uphold the same Constitution. Additionally if you just want to purchase a couple of guns you have already passed background checks then why do they need anymore than that. Who knows if you may end up on TSA no fly lists or other lists.
Well crap. I guess I should be expecting to have my door kicked in then while I’m at work since I bought two rifles last Thursday (a Mosin Nagant 91/30 and a Mosin Nagant M44 carbine).
Very Serious Question:
Scenario
Say I buy two guns and I open carry daily in my house, I figure when this guys come to my front door I first would be on high alert cause I know I didn’t do nothing illegal so why are there two men that look like their from the federal government in my front door knocking?
Second I will not give my right to open carry in my property not even if the president came knocking and since this guys are already braking the law by enforcing a non existing law and demanding to be let into your house without a warrant I figure once they saw my gun in my hip they would reach in a threatening manner.
Say i’m a lawyer and I’m have very deep pockets so i’m not worried about loosing lots of money in a trial. If things get out of hands can I use lethal force to stop this uninvited people from entering my house and also from braking my constitutional rights or would it be legally incorrect in court cause they were federal agents even if they were wrong?????
Very serious question. Help me with my ignorance by not making ignorant responses.
I thing very highly of the intellect of the people that frequent this site. Thanks.
Using lethal force to stop them from violating your rights? Sadly, no (unless MAYBE if you live in a state that has a Castle doctrine). However, there is judicial precedent that if your life is in danger from a law enforcement officer (say cop / fed is trying to kill you and they are the aggressor), it is legal to kill them in self defense. Basically, you’d have to find some way to record it to prove that you were polite and nonthreatening – and that they drew (and probably fired too) first.
You would have to be able to prove the big three.
1. Threat/Jeopardy: You must believe that you or someone else is in imminent danger of death or serious (grave) bodily injury.
2. Means/Ability: The person making the threat must have the means or ability to carry the threat out at the time you defend yourself.
3. Opportunity: The threat must be imminent and the person making the threat must have the opportunity to carry it out. (This is a function of time and distance)
You might be able to get 2 and 3 since they are probably armed and close enough to shoot at you. But if a federal officer showed up on your door step and showed you their badge and then you draw down on them odds are you won’t win that legal battle. If they kicked in the door unannounced you could probably get all 3 but you still better hope you have an amazing attorney because odds are your goose is cooked.
If federal agents are at your door, it’s probably just folks from the Department of Spelling. Don’t worry: they’re there to improve the use of the English Language–preventing you from ever typing again is just the most efficient way of doing their job.
As of a couple months ago, not in Indiana 🙁
You have no right to stop an illegal entry upon your property or an illegal detention of your person. Because, in all their wisdom, our state Supreme Court decided that you always have “a proper course of redress with the courts or the state government.”
Install really big walls. They can’t knock if they can’t reach the door.
Maybe time to put some CCTV on the porch and the entryway?
Then connect the CCTV to an automated gun turret 🙂
This is pretty common in other countries–remote lock controls with a CCTV display are standard in Japanese apartments, for example. There’s no reason this couldn’t be implemented with a smartphone app and modern wireless cams.
Remember, everyone: before you start shooting, it’s a good idea to know what you’re shooting at. If they’re got badges and body armor, you’re probably outgunned…
I hope this is not too ignorant, but how about simply refusing to open the door?
If they break it down without a warrant and you offer no resistance, would you win the legal/PR battle or are we too far down the Police State path?
Too far, to be honest. When you have less than ten seconds to answer the door before they break in and start shooting, you have few options on the table. Unless you’re into martyrdom, immediate compliance to anyone who outguns you is probably your safest bet.
A secondary security door is an alternative option, if you live in the kind of neighborhood where SEAL-wannabees conduct “fake-knock” midnight searches.
Here’s an option to get evidence for court.
“Police, fire and ambulance. What’s your emergency?”
“There are two strangers at my door with guns”
“Stay on the line sir, officers are on their way”
Not actually a bad idea if you aren’t sure that the person is a legitimate government agent. Don’t they recommend this practice for traffic stops if you don’t believe the vehicle is on the up and up?
On the other hand if they do send people to your house odds are its going to be a guy in a suit, in which case just be calm and courteous and let him know he will have to come back with a warrant if he wants to search your property.
Well, of course, Officer! I have nothing but the greatest respect for Federal Agencies…Which room do we start with? Don’t mind the video camera, I tape all my guests…
+1
-1. They will rip the camera right out of the wall and beat you over the head with it. If you’re taping, keep it to yourself.
What happens if a gun store doesn’t comply with a law that doesn’t exist?
Then: If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. — Thomas Jefferson
Now: If the law doesn’t exist you must comply with it anyway.–ATF
Isn’t Thomas Jefferson dead. I know! He was one of our
great founding forefathers which for seen this happening. What can we really do? You can’t hide.
Hey! He’s not real ATF! The dangerous doggie is still breathing!
Yes, “There are two strangers at my door with guns!”
Excuse me while I get my video camera and lawyer on the phone. “Guns? No guns here. Lost them all in a tragic boating accident.” Actually, calling 911 is a very good suggestion.
If law enforcement shows up at your door to search without a warrant, don’t yell and don’t scream. Above all, don’t fight. You should assume that they want you fight so that they can kill in your doorway. Refuse entry, let them break the door down, and call your lawyer when they finish beating the sh!t out of you.
In Magooworld the ATF is trustworthy and kind to children and small household pets. ATF would never do such a thing as unlawfully search your home on a pretext. Try to convince Vicki and Sammy Weaver of that. Oh, wait. You can’t. They’re f^cking dead. ATF even killed their damn dog. They always kill the damn dog, don’t they?
This from the Deputy Director of the FBI after the incident:
Something to Consider
1. Charge against Weaver is Bull Shit.
2. No one saw Weaver do any shooting.
3. Vicki has no charges against her.
4. Weaver’s defense. He ran down the hill to see what dog was
barking at. Some guys in camys shot his dog.
Started shooting at him. Killed his son. Harris did the
shooting [of Degan]. He [Weaver] is in pretty strong legal position.”
In the end, the feds paid off Randy Weaver and his daughter. The feds even paid Kevin Harris, who killed a federal agent. Charges against Harris had to be dropped. Self-defense, you see, even applies to common folk.
The FBI sniper who was called in to permanently remove all witnesses was indicted for murder. Sovereign immunity saved his ass, otherwise he’d still be residing in Leavenworth.
In the real world the ATF has blood on its hands. A lot of blood. The Ruby Ridge case is notorious, but pretextual, warrantless searches happen every day. The notion that ATF would never burst into your home on a pretext is bullshit. ATF will murder again. Don’t let it be you.
now they knock and ask. the day is soon coming when they will knock then kick in the door. people better wake up. the governemnt has all your info when you buy from a dealer. what do you think the form you fill out is for? once it goes out of the store via e-mail or fax it is up for grabs. how many gun owners know the minute they become one the fbi makes a seperate file for you? trust me they know who the gunowners are. from local police to college professors to your next door neighbor, a system of eyes are on you the whole time. what do you think the war on drugs was about? it had nothing to do with stopping drug flow into america. it was about building up an informer system in this nation. america now has more than 25 million registered eyes and ears for the government. most you you have no clue what is coming, the only reason i did was i have family members working for these groups, FBI< ATF< CIA< NSA , they are the ones who tell me this. my advice is for you to figure out where you stand and if for freedom, what are willing to do to stop it? your neighbor a nice guy? maybe too nice if he was once busted for dealing pot. mayber he lives there to keep an eye on you. the feds have no problems spending years and massive amounts of taxpayer money building cred for their agents. why do you think they were able to shut the mob down? they are not required to follow the same rules you do. i once set on a jury and just before we renedered a guilty verdict the judge was called into a back room and then the case was declared a mistrial. as i left for the day i ran into my cousin and another agent. seems they were the ones who told the judge to back down because the guy was already working for them. now if that is not power you please tell me what is.
Comments are closed.