Rare Breed Triggers FRT-15
Rare Breed Triggers FRT site-15. Image source; Rare Breed Triggers web

 

Alphonso Hughes, the ATF’s Assistant Director for Enforcement Programs and Services, and George Lauder, ATF’s Assistant Director of Field Operations have issued an open letter to all federal firearms licensees regarding forced reset triggers, notifying them that “some of them” are now officially considered firearms and machine guns under the National Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act.

The federal firearms regulator claims that “some FRT devices allow a firearm to automatically expel more than one shot with a single, continuous pull of the trigger.”

The ATF has raided firms such as Rare Breed and Big Daddy Unlimited in recent months, confiscating their inventories. Rare Breed has been fighting the enforcement actions, filing suit against the ATF.

Here’s the text of the ATF’s letter . . .

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) recently examined devices commonly known as “forced reset triggers” (FRTs) and has determined that some of them are “firearms” and “machineguns” as defined in the National Firearms Act (NFA), and “machineguns” as defined in the Gun Control Act (GCA).

These particular FRTs are being marketed as replacement triggers for AR-type firearms. Unlike traditional triggers and binary triggers (sometimes referred to generally as “FRTs”), the subject FRTs do not require shooters to pull and then subsequently release the trigger to fire a second shot. Instead, these FRTs utilize the firing cycle to eliminate the need for the shooter to release the trigger before a second shot is fired. By contrast, some after-market triggers have similar components but also incorporate a disconnector or similar feature to ensure that the trigger must be released before a second shot may be fired and may not be machineguns.

Both the NFA and GCA regulate machineguns. “Machinegun” is defined under 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b) and 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(23) as—

Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. (Emphasis added.)

ATF’s examination found that some FRT devices allow a firearm to automatically expel more than one shot with a single, continuous pull of the trigger. For this reason, ATF has concluded that FRTs that function in this way are a combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and hence, ATF has classified these devices as a “machinegun” as defined by the NFA and GCA.

Accordingly, ATF’s position is that any FRT that allows a firearm to automatically expel more than one shot with a single, continuous pull of the trigger is a “machinegun”, and is accordingly subject to the GCA prohibitions regarding the possession, transfer, and transport of machineguns under 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(o) and 922(a)(4). They are also subject to registration, transfer, taxation, and possession restrictions under the NFA. See 26 U.S.C. §§ 5841, 5861; 27 CFR 479.101.

Under 26 U.S.C. § 5871, any person who violates or fails to comply with the provisions of the NFA may be fined up to $10,000 per violation and is subject to imprisonment for a term of up to ten years. Further, pursuant to 26 U.S.C. § 5872, any machinegun possessed or transferred in violation of the NFA is subject to seizure and forfeiture. Under 18 U.S.C. § 924(a)(2), any person who violates § 922(o) may be sent to prison for up to 10 years and fined up to $250,000 per person or $500,000 per organization.

Based on ATF’s determination that the FRTs that function as described above are “machineguns” under the NFA and GCA, ATF intends to take appropriate remedial action with respect to sellers and possessors of these devices. Current possessors of these devices are encouraged to contact ATF for further guidance on how they may divest possession. If you are uncertain whether the device you possess is a machinegun as defined by the GCA and NFA, please contact your local ATF Field Office. You may consult the local ATF Office’s webpage for office contact information.

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100 COMMENTS

  1. “Some of them” doesn’t identify which ones. Unless specifically identified, I doubt the rule would be enforceable.

    • I don’t think that’s the point. I’d wager that just like everything else for years now the point is to create uncertainty.

      In doing so they reduce the customer base and weaken the companies positions to fight such regulations. Eventually it becomes a “We could make that but is it worth it?” discussion.

      That reduces the population of the willing companies which are then easier to target Alinsky style but with government funding.

      Victory by attrition, as it were. One wonders if they’re cognizant of the FCC being forced to return CB bandwidth and are trying to head such a thing off at the pass.

      • Gun Control Act? What happens when Gun Owners go silent and fail to define Gun Control in any shaoe, matter or form as an agenda history confirms is rooted in racism and genocide. After a letter from the Jim Crow Gun Control putin/biden wing of the ATF hopefully silent Gun Owners will feel a little Black and Jewish.

      • “One wonders if they’re cognizant of the FCC being forced to return CB bandwidth and are trying to head such a thing off at the pass.”

        ” …forced to return CB bandwidth…”

        Huh? As in, declaring the 40 channel 27 Mhz CB radio band to be closed?

        What’s their plan about the likely 100 Million + CB radios still in existence? Force people to just toss them into a dumpster under penalty of law?

    • The letter erroneously calls binary triggers FRTs. Real FRTs that force your finger forward and reset the trigger are being called machine guns. Since these real FRT don’t allow “firearm to automatically expel more than one shot with a single, continuous pull of the trigger,” nothing is banned. The real FRTs force the trigger finger forward, the trigger is reset, and the finger must.pull again to fire, so there is one pull per shot fired. If you strap or weld a machine gun trigger back, it will keep firing. If you do that to an FRT, it will stop firing after the first shot.

      • You have described above the “method and the mechanics.”
        Your comment as both articulate and logical.
        Do everyone a favor…… Forward your comments to the company “rare breed triggers“ and to their attorney.

  3. “ATF’s examination found that some FRT devices allow a firearm to automatically expel more than one shot with a single, continuous pull of the trigger.”

    Bullshit. Someone with good enough fine motor coordination can do, legally and functionally, the same thing and their pad of their finger never leaves the face of the trigger.

    Rule by decree has been an ATF standby for a long time but it certainly seems that they’re becoming quite aggressive about it under this administration. Probably because with this administration the real power is the the administrative agencies and not the top of the Executive Branch.

    Which is why this administration is, in effect, a coup. The power rests with the heads of agencies which have more power than the White House or the Congress. You can’t vote your way out of that situation and I doubt you’ll reverse it, even if you “throw all the bums out” because… you’re not throwing out the right bums, and likely, never will.

    • Valmet AKs and Belgian FALs are particularly easy to manipulate with a slight vibrating finger action into something that seems & sounds like a real machine gun. I would assume that the other nationalities of those breeds are the same, never shot them though.
      ARs and HKs have too great a trigger reset arc to work well. Flat out clumsy by comparison.

      • I have a fairly early import wasr 10-63 with a super short trigger reset. If i had to guess i can probably get 600 rounds per minute out of it just by riding the reset.

    • “Rule by decree has been an ATF standby for a long time but it certainly seems that they’re becoming quite aggressive about it under this administration.”

      There’s news in that department :

      “The Supreme Court May Soon Shut Down the Regulatory State. Let’s Use It While We Still Can.”

      “Progressive Democrats are right to call for more aggressive use of regulatory powers. But like the Democrats’ congressional majorities, these may not last forever.”

      https://newrepublic.com/article/165802/supreme-court-chevron-deference-biden-regulatory-state

      This might explain the BATF over-reach on home-built firearms about to drop in a few weeks…

      • “Progressive Democrats are right to call for more aggressive use of regulatory powers. But like the Democrats’ congressional majorities, these may not last forever.”

        For a long time, the leftists (dems) tried to hide their intent. Now, they shove it joyfully in our faces.

  4. 100% FUD. The ATF has already been thrown out of court for falsifying documents that stated a reset never happens. This article is 100% FALSE.

      • What do they call the Rarebreed triggers?
        I would rather not call the AFT field office to find out. And are the bastards going to give me a refund. That wasn’t a serious question but the first one was.

        • The CEO for rare breed triggers has stated in a video that the ATF has sent him notice that they are considering his trigger a machine gun. Or something to that effect. He obviously disagrees.

      • The LETTER is 100% FALSE. Every claim it makes is blatantly 100% false. No one ever said that it wasnt sent out.

      • jwtaylor,

        “I got such a letter from the ATF as well.”

        And that is the downside to Internet/mail orders.

        Cash-and-carry is superior since it is not traceable.

  7. The amazing thing is that ATF has not declared any and all forearms to be machine guns. all firearms use parts that are used in machine guns. Virtually all firearms can be converted to machine guns. If having all the makings of a suppressor in the home and/or garage is considered “constructive possession”, then how do any and all firearms escape “constructive possession” of a machine gun?

  8. With the exception for the parts of this that are quotes, I think you may need to be more conscious of when referring to a pull of the trigger vs. a function of the trigger.

  10. I feel no sympathy for either the manufacturer or the people who bought them. Both knew damn well they were circumventing the law against owning full auto weapons without going through an NFA registration. It was only a matter of time before the ATF went after the manufacturer and the buyers. The buyers are lucky that the ATF just did not swoop down and throw them all straight into prison.

    We already have enough problems with mass murder by assault rifle, we sure as hell did not need a bunch of full auto weapons out on the street so every gang banger out there could have one.

    • tHE GANGBANGERS HAVE HAD EASY ACCESS TO FULLY AUTO WEAPONS FOR DECADES. THEY BUY THEM ON THE BLACK MARKET ILLEGALLY. FROM ILLEGAL GUN DEALERS.
      I don’t think another gun lawi will stop them either.

    • dacian is either a Bot or a Troll.

      The ATF did not declare FRT Machine Guns. They decalred “some” FRT Triggers as Machine Guns.

      What does that mean? What is the determinant that classify some FRT as Machine Guns and other not?

      This is a fishing expedition by a Federal Agency to have customers self Narc on themselves to the ATF and give up something that is perfectly legal.

      Your use of “Assualt Rifle” outs you as an uninformed FUD at best, bot, or troll at worst.

      Piss Off!

      • What it means is defined in the letter. Such triggers are not binary triggers, but triggers “that allow a firearm to automatically expel more than one shot with a single, continuous pull of the trigger.” I assume this means that if you pull the trigger continuously to the rear, more than one cartridge is fired.

      • Yes, consistently stupid IS a form of consistency. Not one to be sought after, but it IS “consistency”.

    • All triggers have a reset spring or mechanism. How on earth do you regulate how strong a reset spring can be?!? Where do you draw the line and how do you enforce it? If my trigger has a reset spring for 8lbs and yours has a reset spring for 7.5lbs, then one is a machine gun and the other is not?!? If you pull a trigger and then it resets and then you pull the trigger again rapidly…. how is that a machine gun?!? Because that’s all a Forced Reset Trigger is. A trigger with a strong reset spring. Once it resets, you have to pull it again.

      Genuine questions. If you can answer without lying, I’m all ears

      • The rarebreed trigger is just what it says it is. Forced Reset. The trigger forces your finger forward after pulling back and fires one round. You have to pull back on the trigger to fire another round. The trigger is extremely fast because you feel when the reset happens. If you hold your finger like a rubber band (that’s the only way to explain it) you can empty a mag very fast but you are still only firing one round per trigger pull. What really pisses me off is these clowns approved this design to the lawyers at rarebreed. It was legal when purchased and expensive. Now there will be no compensation to the purchasers.

        • What pisses me off is clowns that claim this is intentionally circumventing the law. As if complying with the law is somehow a bad thing.

          Even if you accept that we should have banned machine guns (which I don’t)…. This isn’t a machine gun. It’s a semi auto. The trigger must be pulled every shot.

          Even if you accept that the ATF itself isn’t an infringement on gun rights (which I don’t accept)… The ATF approved the design. They said it was good.

          Follow every law, get every approval, comply in every way and later they can still just call you a criminal and arrest you. While they’re doing it, clowns like Dacian will cheer them on.

    • Really untermensch? We have no “assault rifles “. All that we have are autoloading rifles.

    • I’ve seen videos of Jerry shooting pistols faster than submachine guns. Admittedly it was a M3 but it is still an impressive feat.

    • OK, that man, and his daughter, are freaks of nature. Miculek can do things with a firearm that shouldn’t be possible for a human.

      And the scary part is that he rings steel with EVERY damn shot! He’s not just inhumanly fast, he’s inhumanly accurate WHILE being inhumanly fast.

      • He’s also old. About 3 months younger than me at 67. He’s a tick slower but dayum! As far as trigger’s keep what you acquire on to yourself. No paper trail. No nothing if possible…

        • You aren’t old sir. And my saying sir doesn’t mean you are old either. It’s just respect. This is coming from a 63 year old. 60 is the new 35. Yes I said it!

      • LampOfDiogenes,

        Have you seen the video of Jerry shooting a .44 Magnum revolver into a large steel human silhouette target? He shoots it so fast that his shots make the target–which is explicitly designed to not fall over–fall over!

        That is totally insane!

      • Uncommon,

        One of my tactical instructors has shot against Miculek twice in competition. Says the man is just inhuman – shoots almost as fast in competition as he does in demonstrations, and just . . . never misses. I’ve seen his daughter shoot in competition, and she’s almost the same. Fast, inhumanly accurate, steady as a rock. I dream of being that good.

  13. ‘Some’ of the ATF agents are worthless pedophiles. Please throw them all in jail for 40 years to err on the safe side. Please call you local prison and turn yourself in.

  14. I don’t understand any of this. I know I’m to piss some people off. Again. But I don’t really get the whole “let’s circumvent the whole “NFA” thing” and not expect some push back from a bureaucracy that depends on this kind of thing to justify its existence. And circumvent is what’s it’s really about. We know it. They know it and so does any other sentient being. I believe you should be able to walk into a Western Auto and buy a Thompson 1928 like we used to be able to. But, we can’t. And probably never will be able to again. You want to shoot a machine gun. Buy one. Or join the Infantry. They’ll give you free ammo and pay you to shoot it. Of course, a lot of the rest isn’t very much fun.
    And I’ve been meaning to ask. What’s going on with these binary triggers? If I understand correctly, the weapon fires on sear break and again on reset? If so, that’s the dumbest shit I ever heard of. It violates trigger discipline on every level I can think of.
    First. Front sight on target.
    Next. Trigger break.
    After a cener punch hit. Trigger reset during recoil in anticipation of a controlled pair/double tap follow up shot. Oops! Where did that reset shot go? Now I have to recover again and get that front sight on target. Again.
    If I have to wait for the front sight to acquire the target before I reset/fire; why wouldn’t I just press the trigger again?
    Bump stocks and binary triggers remind of those stupid little things you had to clamp on the trigger guard and crank the handle like a monkey’s organ grinder. No thanks. I think more of my weapons than to defile them with novelties. Just me.

    • “But I don’t really get the whole “let’s circumvent the whole “NFA” thing”…”

      “Getting around obstacles” is our native culture. “Getting around obstacles” is at the heart of innovation (probably why America is the far leading nation in Nobel Prize awards).

      One of the most famous, and probably little known, successes in getting around obstacles is audio recording. Thomas Edison, in 1877, got around the greatest obstacle of all: death. Edison invented audio recording as a means of families preserving memories of deceased loved ones by inventing a means of recording the voices of loved ones, to serve as a living memorial of the departed.

      “Getting around” things is simply what we do. Such is probably a leading cause of crime.

      • Sam, I agree with everything you said. But, I thought the objective to overcoming an obstacle is to have a positive result. You ever used a bump stock? I have. One of the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen. Held my attention for about five minutes. Returned to the deck to speak with Dale. Casey said it’s been gathering dust since. No experience with a binary trigger. No experience taking a nose dive off a tall building either. No doubt both are bad ideas.

        • “But, I thought the objective to overcoming an obstacle is to have a positive result.”

          No, the joy is in simply “getting around obstacles”; whatever, whoever, wherever. And, you must admit, “positive result” is a subjective measure.

        • Takes one to know one, MinorIQ. Many geniuses were/are @$$holes – Thorsten Veblen, Michaelangelo Buonarotti, Galileo, John Maynard Keynes, Leonardo daVinci, among others, were all reputed to be stemwinding @$$holes. Unfortunately, sometimes you get the @$$hole without the genius, which is why we have to suffer with you and dacian the stupid.

    • Your questions do make sense. I also don’t see much actual practical reason for owning any of these, unless you can afford lots of ammo and enjoy doing mag dumps at the local gravel pit. Not saying you shouldn’t have them, or that you shouldn’t have the legal right to own them. But they are, and are marketed as, a poke in the eye of the ATF and backlash should have been anticipated. There have been some pretty egregious examples – the black powder .50 cal with the permanently attached suppressor comes to mind.

      That all said, I defend the right of any citizen to own a bump stock, FRT trigger, or other action-enhancer. Myself, I like pistol braces, admitting that I’d rather have short-barreled rifles and braced pistols provide a similar tool. I wouldn’t mind owning an FRT, but not enough to pop up on yet another list for the ATF to contact.

      • “I also don’t see much actual practical reason for owning any of these,…”

        “A reason” to buy firearms and related items is completely unnecessary. All that is required is the appropriate amount of money to make the purchase(s).

        • Sam, I agree again. I’ve often said the best reason to own something is because you want it. My favorite firearms are the ones, I first, wanted. Second, have a real practical use for. (I may have those reversed. Depending on the firearm in question). Last. And this really is the final test of a firearm for me. How well does it do out there in the real world when I’m standing on my hind feet? Can it and I do what we need to do? Whatever that is. Yes? I like that gun!

    • You have no idea how to use one, untermensch. Using the law to your advantage is perfectly legal. Indeed, take their law and use it against them. Eventually, there will be no ATF nor any restrictions. We work every day toward that goal

      • I’m thinking more on the lines of a semi auto ban.
        Taking a law and using it against them just changes the law to their advantage.
        They’ve did a stellar job with Shall Not Be Infringed.

    • Gadsden Flag,

      I agree that binary triggers could pose a potentially significant safety risk. I have never held/shot one so I don’t know for sure. In theory (as you pointed out), however, they seem to be a bad idea.

    • Gadsden Flag,

      Speaking to your other point, the heart of the matter is the time immemorial “malum in se” versus “malum prohibitum” controversy. Good people support “malum in se” (something is illegal because everyone knows that it is bad/evil/destructive). Only tyrants support “malum prohibitum” (something is illegal–even though it is not bad/evil/destructive–simply by government declaration).

      Government declaring that machine guns (by any definition) are “illegal” is a “malum prohibitum” law and should not have any place in our society.

    • “If I understand correctly, the weapon fires on sear break and again on reset? If so, that’s the dumbest shit I ever heard of. It violates trigger discipline on every level I can think of.”

      It’s not quite that bad, but close. They have a lever on them you can actuate that returns the gun back into a standard semi-auto rifle.

      Pull and hold trigger, flip the lever, it will not fire when you relax the trigger…

  15. Just got that email from the ATF (I’m an FFL) and the infamous “some” immediately caught my eye. WTF is that supposed to mean?!?!

    The nebulous nature of the ATF is so F-ing frustrating.

    I became an FFL because of my passion for the 2nd Amendment and have be very diligent to abide by the rules. But when the rules are Hazy and the goal posts are constantly moving, what the hell is the use of any of the rules or regulations. The deck is stacked to trap law abiding Americans.

      • “It’s the BATFE, there are no law abiding citizens.”

        Was once a fund-raiser for United Way. BATFEEE (explosives, and everything else”. ATF and DEA were two of my assigned agencies.

        You have no idea how close your statement is to reality.

    • “The nebulous nature of the ATF is so F-ing frustrating.”

      It’s deliberate.

      They want gun owners to not be sure what is legal and illegal, so they won’t do it in the first place out of fear of federal prison sentence…

  16. If pulling a firearm trigger results in more than one shot being fired then whatever parts you added or modified turns your firearm into an illegal firearm. It’s fairly simple and shouldn’t have required an explanatory letter. One trigger pull=one shot fired is good to go. One trigger pull=more than one shot fired will get you more attention from the ATFE than you’ll be able to enjoy. Plus it generates headlines that make all of we gun owners look like a bunch of none too smart outlaws. All so that someone can turn ammo into noise faster.

  19. How about one trigger pull and a trigger reset allowing 2 shots? This seems to be about a good as a bump stock(as Gadsden Flag stated).
    I guess I can understand why someone wants it, but as far as I am concerned, it is a waste of ammo.
    You should be free to waste all the ammo you want, train laying down suppressive fire and even 3 round bursts, but please do so well away from me or mine. It is not easy to stay on target and I don’t want to be near where a gun gets away from a newby.

    • The letter implies that binary triggers are legal, since only one shot is fired by “pulling” the trigger. A “machine gun” expels more than one round with one pull of the trigger. Firing on reset is not “pulling.”

      • “Firing on reset is not “pulling.” ”

        Now it is.

        If employed by the BATFEEE, I would determine that “pull” is defined as “reward motion that results in the discharge of a single cartridge (or “ball”), and re-setting the trigger to enable a subsequent single discharge”. Thus, if the full cycle of a trigger results in more than one discharge, the weapon is a machine gun.
        (I would also classify string, belt loops, rubber bands as machine guns)

    • rt66paul,

      If enemy combatants are literally overrunning your position, you want the highest possible rate of fire. Thus, there are legitimate situations where you truly NEED full-auto fire.

      Speaking of fire, that situation is akin to a literal fire where you want to hose down the fire as much/quickly as possible. Just as you literally need to hose-down a fire, there are situations where you would need to “hose down” enemy combatants overrunning your position. Of course instead of hosing them down with water, you are hosing them down with lead bullets.

  20. “Just got that email from the ATF (I’m an FFL) and the infamous “some” immediately caught my eye. WTF is that supposed to mean?!?!”

    It means: you report, we (ATF) decide (as we like).

  21. Very simple solution to a very theoretical, non-existent problem – repeal the (unconstitutional) NFA.

    See how simple that was??? Now we’re done with this definitional nonsense.

    Of course, MinorIQ, dacian the stupid, Moms Against Everything, Bloomberg, et al. will freak out . . . but that’s a feature, not a bug.

    • LampOfDiogenes,

      You do realize that many/most government politicians and bureaucrats are only interested in their personal gain rather than what is righteous and good for the masses, correct? That being the case, government is not interested in repealing the NFA unless they somehow stand to gain from it.

      • uncommon,

        Wasn’t trying to argue it was likely to happen, just saying it’s a simple answer to a non-existent problem. “Machine guns” have a function; most people aren’t trained/competent to use them for anything other than wasting ammunition. If they were fully legal, I probably wouldn’t own one – I couldn’t afford to keep the damn thing loaded. Doesn’t change the fact that it is my RIGHT to own one, if I want to. The NFA is absurdly unconstitutional, and stupid, to boot. Anyone with a decent knowledge of and access to machine tools can make a full-auto sear in an hour or so. Making something “illegal” that is in common use, and relatively easy to make, is going to fail, just like the “War on Drugs” failed. And Prohibition. Being an attorney, stupid laws that can’t be enforced reduce respect for all laws, and I oppose that.

        I do agree, however, that politicians rarely act in the interests of their constituents, except by accident.

  22. BATFE needs to either be disbanded or return to their tax collection duties as the treasury dept. agency they originally were. Investigation goes over the FBI and enforcement goes to the Marshall’s service. While we’re at it, about half of the Federal Gov. could be eliminated or consolidated into other agencies, bureaus, or depts. FBI does the investigating and the Marshals do the warrant service and arresting. Get rid of the other fed LE agencies. 3 intel agencies. 1 military, 1 foreign and 1 domestic. With full cooperation between. Abolish the federal Education Dept. Oversite of schools and curriculum belongs at the state level. Would be great if things went back to the original few. Interior, Justice, War, or to appease the snowflakes, Defense, Treasury, and State. Just curious but how many of the various agencies, bureau’s and depts have overlapping or even conflicting duties.

    • I like the way you think. The department of education pretty much just exists to hand out money for the school lunch program. They could fire everybody and just cut taxes equal to the money they hand out and the bloated bureaucracy and we would come out ahead. Heck, the department of energy hasn’t built a new reactor in over 40 years. But they waste money on trying to create biodiesel and turn switchgrass into fuel. Morons.

  24. American ingenuity will prevail like it always has. It is a game, they make a law or a regulation, we read it and figure out how to confound them.

    This game will always be played. It is the nature of man. The game will continue until one side or the other tires of it. You will know when someone gets their eye poked out the game is over and things become serious.

  25. I don’t personally own one but if you bought one while it was legal they should grandfather you since they are the dummies who approved it in the first place. I think all of you out there who own them should treat the situation the same as if they came to collect your firearms and tell them “molon labe” (come and take it). They change and make the rules without Congressional authority and they should be sued by more people and businesses to make the point they are acting without legal authority.

  26. @Gadsden Flag
    “How well does it do out there in the real world when I’m standing on my hind feet? Can it and I do what we need to do?”

    That seems to be situational. Am convinced I cannot shoot well while crawling on hands and knees out of the bar where the trouble started.

    Same for home; knee-walking isn’t an effective method to “stand your ground”.

  28. Sam, not sure I understand your point. “Standing on my hind feet” is just a Southern expression for a man going about his business. What’s the whole thing about crawling out of bars and knee walking “stand your ground about?” That’s about the most nonsensical shit I’ve read lately. Or maybe, something was lost in translation between your drivel and my understanding of the English language.

  29. Some? They haven’t figured out which ones? 😂 so you have to call them to find out? They know it’s bullshit and just want you to turn them in. Shit show.

  30. People need to make decisions with common sense over emotion. If the guvmint made bump stocks illegal, FRTs were definitely DOA on day one. Like watching a train crash in slow motion…..

    • that’s not the issue.

      The FRT thing is a result of the ATF exceeding their authority and usurping congress to basically make law by secret re-interpretation decision, then springing it on the public. A year ago, those things now called FRT’s were legal and met the ATF definition when manufactured and marketed and in fact were even ‘indirectly’ approved by ATF when manufacturers consulted them to find out if it was legal and the ATF said “Yep.” Then Biden started directing the ATF to follow his anti-gun lead and start attacking gun manufacturers and owners on multiple levels. The ATF responded with a ‘slanted’ re-interpretation in secret to prepare an “assault” on an unsuspecting law abiding firearms community (that effort is still continuing to day on different items).

      So no, FRTs were NOT “definitely DOA on day one”. They were legal on day one and continued to be legal until the ATF exceeded their authority and usurped congress to basically make law by secret re-interpretation decision.

      • Bumpstocks were also legal on day one. With the knowledge of what has happened to bumpstocks it is quite logical that the same people in the same atf would take the same action with something that simulates full auto fire in an easier to manipulate and more accurate format.

        Again your mad at the guvmint for doing stuff it is not supposed to do, but you do not cut off your nose to spite you’re face (buying one of these with your credit card to stick it to the man).

        I stand by my original statement.

        • Bump stocks never had the blessing of the ATF or law “on day one”. No, bump stocks were not legal on day one, they just were not illegal because there was no application of definition decision for them until later. FRT’s were legal on day one and had the blessing of the ATF as well.

          It isn’t a matter of making “decisions with common sense over emotion”. FRT’s were specifically legal under the law and rules, bump stocks never were.

          What if you looked at the law and saw owning, say, an all electric car was legal and the NTHSA gave it their blessing. But later in secret the NTHSA decided your electric car was not legal and started showing up at dealerships threatening to put people in jail, threatened to put you in jail, and threatened and enacted confiscation of your property – for doing what the NTHSA and law said was legal to own and use.

      • Mine were legal when I bought them. I’m going to keep them as long as possible without risking jail time. Let it play out in the courts. Rare Breed’s owners are lawyers and they have documentation from the AFT that the triggers are compliant. With this administration having over two years to go things don’t look good but we’ll see. Sucks that they aren’t forced to pay for them. Live and learn I guess.

  31. No matter the legalities of it. I just do not understand how this could not be forseen before purchase with past actions of ATF. I am on your side as far as the legalities but we already know they do what they like. Just my 2 cents. Do what you like.

  32. I have to say, this has been one of the most enjoyable threads I’ve read in the past year! 🙂
    My Army M-16A had 2 modes, single shot and multiple shot (max 5). My Ruger .556 does not boast such an option (wish it did). My M-60 could fire a hundred rounds in 30 seconds, but my aim was not ‘dead on’ because wielding the thing took massive strength alone. Machine guns are not known for accuracy, point and spray technique mostly. If I’m going to fire even one round (at today’s prices), I want to know that I’m going to hit my target.
    We all know this is just more of the “control” issues suffered by the cretins sitting in US Corporate offices and their communist agenda. They know that there are enough weapons of all types owned by men and women in this country that when we’ve finally reached our limit those weapons would be aimed squarely at Them. Every country that has allowed their ‘rulers’ to disarm them has fallen to the control of the cabal. They have ruined every country they set their sights on and oppressed and/or genocided those who resided there. The Plandemic failed, and much of their shenanigans are now being exposed. Ukraine is another distraction, Putin is cleaning up OUR mess over there and protecting HIS country from US.
    The facts are: They are illegitimate, they work for the “corporation” and the “corporation” was bankrupted and dissolved in 2019. Actually, the “contract with the crown” ended in 2012 but not many are aware of that. What we’re watching is the death throes of these creatures and their ‘power’ and I pray daily that it happens without an all-out civil war. I’ve read that a lot of Dems have been buying guns. That’s pretty scary in my book, but chances are they’ll kill themselves or their cohorts since they think owning a gun is the same as knowing how to use one.
    The Military has had control of our government since November 2019, Buydan is a pretense and the rest of them just think they have power. Once the Military moves to remove the resident and his cohorts things are going to change rapidly and intensely. Once the Public is aware of what has been done to our Constitution they will understand why every law, ordinance, statute, opinion, politician, judge, governor, etc. is being Removed and our Country will go back to the Original Constitution and the Natural Laws as given us by God.
    So, it’s fun discussion over a fictitious law that won’t matter in due time. Just Stand Your Ground, Do Not Consent, Do Not Comply. We are MANY, they are Few and stupid.

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