ATF’s New Pistol Brace Rule Would Create As Many As 40 Million New Felons Over Night

1. As of today, the ATF has received nearly 118,000 comments on this proposed rule, 95% of them against it. Keep piling on people, let them know who’s the boss of them.

   • Does anyone know how that 118,000 comment number compares to the total number of comments with the ‘green tip’ ammo fiasco?

     • Green tip is a joke that’s why they let it slide.

     • If memory serves it’s in the same ball park, but I can’t give you a number. It’s probably recorded in some obscure Regulations.gov data base archive.

     • I recall that stun guns were about 200,000.

       • That was the total number in the stste that tried to ban them, one of the slave states of the north. Not an ATF thing.

2. This a feature according to the ATF and the current administration. However, this piece of proposed rule change by the ATF violates the constitution because the ATF is an enforcement agency, not a judicial or legislative body.

3. 40 million instant felons? For the Democrats all the more reason to enact it. Especially since every court including Supreme Court Will not help us and most are openly hostile.

   • May be a stupid question but would 40 million fall under common use?

     • “…would 40 million fall under common use?”

       Not stupid at all, and a damn good point.

       Couple that with a 10-year history of saying they were legal, that improves our chances the SCOTUS would be sympathetic to our plea for relief from BATFE tyranny…

       • Well until then skipping the brace on the pending NY SAFE ar pistol. Just weighing the options of the 5.56/blackout magazine vs 6.5/6.8 since it needs to be ‘non-removable’

     • I have no faith in the supreme court.

   • There’s the labor force for the Great Lakes to Seattle canal. BYO pick and shovel.

     • I find it a bit amusing an Australian knows more about America than most Americans. (In a good way… 😉 )

4. The title is misleading, no one will be a felon over night. It isn’t clear yet there will be a change and if there is the judiciary (an equal branch of govt, as hammered home in the article) will step in and there will many lawsuits.

   It’ll take a long time to sort through it all and I don’t think anyone believes the ATF could handle 10-40 million SBR tax stamps all at once.

   • You’re a bit naive aren’t you? Sure, there will be lawsuits, but those will take years to wind their way through the courts and while it’s being fought this rule change, if enacted, will be in force. And no, of course the ATF isn’t equipped to suddenly handle 40 million SBR applications, which is all the more reason for the powers that be to see this enacted. Especially since the courts have ruled that a law being physically impossible to follow doesn’t mean people can’t be punished for failure to comply

     • What’s naive is to think if the law goes into effect 01 Aug, there will be 10-40 million new felons on 02 Aug.

       • Would you like to prove your bravery and be the first test case?

       • Sure. I’ll call the ATF myself. I’ll bet you 10 zillion dollars if the law is put into effect 01 Aug, I will not be a felon on 02 Aug.

         Don’t be stupid.

       • Hey Cato, better yet, we’ll call for you, just to be sure.

         Is anyone saying that 40 million people will be thrown in jail the day of? I don’t think so. The assertion that they will be felons by most is understood to be that they would be in the condition of, not convicted via legal proceedings.

         Up to 40 million people will cease doing what one day they considered normal and acceptable and the next day wont for fear of being turned in or otherwise discovered. It is the legal cloud of a felony conviction and everything that would entail, that will keep them from doing what they previously thought was kosher.

         Seems like a pretty big deal.

       • Why will all 40 million be felons overnight? Don’t any of them know how to remove the stabilizing brace accessory from their firearm?

       • Mike V

         “Is anyone saying that 40 million people will be thrown in jail the day of? I don’t think so.”

         The article says people will automatically be felons OVERNIGHT, and felons can be thrown in jail. No where does it talk about the possibility the new ruling may not stand or that people that comply with the new law wont be felons.

         What the ATF is proposing is a very big deal. Making up stuff that isn’t true is a big deal also. The article is bullshit.

       • Jake I don’t think more than 10% of brace owners even know what’s going on.

       • “The article says people will automatically be felons OVERNIGHT, and felons can be thrown in jail.”

         I think the “can be” is the point. Anyone not in line could have the book thrown at them. And pretty much most of those currently using braces are likely not synced with the new rules if they go into place.
         Is it hyperbole to say all will for sure? Probably.

         You seem to have a confidence in the system that I think is misplaced today. Hope you’re right.

       • Mike V

         You are right. Most brace owners probably don’t know they may be in possible legal jeopardy if this rule goes into effect. But I wouldn’t tell them they will be felons overnight.

         I do still have faith in the system. I don’t believe the police will be kicking in doors like Nazi storm troopers looking for AR pistols. That kind of rhetoric is worse than the defund the police/all cops are bad bullshit from the left.

       • Uh…that’s “Felons-In-Waiting”….. Hang loose. They’ll get to you in due time, once they have made examples of the first winners. Plan is to not leave anyone out.

         Regarding “taking the braces off the firearm”, don’t forget the ATF’s favored “constructive possession” tactic. Having a semi-auto AR15 AND full auto part/s can be construed as “constructive possession” with same consequences as having the full auto parts installed on said AR-15. Expecting the brace in possession with an AR pistol will fall in line.

5. “Did you really think we want those laws observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against… We’re after power and we mean it… There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Reardon, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

   ― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

6. FWIW, 11.7″ish barrel on an AR with a mil spec buffer tube is over 26″ OAL.

7. Hmm. Something about this article seems familiar. As If I’ve read the exact same wording before. And the same photos. In the same order. Several times. From several gun sites.

   • Yeah me too…never had any reason to get a brace. But like a bumpstock I support those who wish to use it. Anyone notice the demonization of those having guns & ammo in hotel room’s? Even though there’s no proof they planned a mass shooting? Guilty until proven innocent ossifer🙁

     • I suppose that would be similar to the demonization of people who attend flight schools for large passenger jets, but who only want to learn how to FLY them, not how to take off or land them.
       Or the demonization of those who buy several hundred pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, a windowless van, and a few buckets of stove oil, but don’t own a farm, or even a market garden, or an oil stove.
       I mean, whenever I and some friends travel to see a major sports event in a major urban center, we bring along a few ‘comfort rifles’ and some ammunition to spread about our hotel rooms, and we ALWAYS ask to be moved to a room overlooking the sports venue if our original room doesn’t have a proper balcony so that we can see the game clearly through our rifle-mounted telescopes! It sure saves on the cost of tickets, doesn’t it? And who knows when a trophy buck might happen to appear several stories below, right next to the car-rental kiosk?
       It all sounds completely innocent to ME, by Golly!

       • ^ Found the dick.

       • Golly, that’s good news! We’re all just overjoyed that you’ve found your dick. Thanks for the update.

         But, what does that have to do with the subject at hand?

8. Still waiting for an article that is useful such as ….

   “How to write a response to ATF brace rule that maximizes the ATF response effort and clogs their system in 5 easy steps”

   • Perhaps you missed this from a few weeks back?

     https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/the-atfs-pistol-brace-regulation-comment-period-has-begun-heres-what-you-can-do/

     • Thanks HAZ.

9. Don’t forget the fact that hundreds of thousands (or millions?) of stabilizing braces, which are now a lawful item to have on one’s pistol, are currently in the public domain. Criminalizing the people’s property/actions after the fact is in direct violation of Article I, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution which DICTATES TO GOVERNMENT, or agencies thereof, that they are forbidden from ‘passing’ “ex post facto law”.
   Also, Article I, Section 1, clearly dictates that only the legislature has the power to legislate (make laws), but the laws that they make must be “in pursuance thereof” the mandates of the Constitution. The Second Amendment forbids government from infringing upon the people’s right to ‘keep (own) and bear (carry, possess on one’s person) Arms’. Rules, fiat laws, that are not “in pursuance thereof”, made by an unelected bureaucracy are thereby unconstitutional and are a nullity (Marbury v Madison, 5 US 137).
   “Warring on” an express provision of the U.S. Constitution is a treasonous act (re: Cooper v Aaron, 358 US 1).
   The government and its bureaucracy (the BATFE) is committing treason against the people in four instances with their regulation of pistol braces.
   The U.S. Constitution is a contract between the government and their creators, the people – that said people will be governed by Constitution. The Constitution sets forth limits that government(s), both States and Federal, shall not exceed. Willfully exceeding those limits is treason and thereby voids said contract. Either we expel the traitors that are now and have been in power, who are in willful violation of the “… supreme Law…”, or we deserve the tyrannical form of government that they have given us.

   • If you need to lobby for your rights, you don’t understand what rights are, and you don’t have any.
     “A free man doesn’t ask permission to bear arms, he doesn’t have to.” – Thomas Jefferson
     “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.” Jefferson
     “Everyone must determine for themselves what level of tyranny they are willing to tolerate.” Some old white guy
     Sadly, the alphabet guys and politicians doe not fear We The Little Peeps. That is our fault, responsibility.
     Sadly, the alphabet guys and polkiticians do not fear We The Little Peeps. That is our fault, responsibility.
     The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. – HL Mencken (1880-1956) – American journalist, essayist, satirist, cultural critic, and scholar of American English. :Those who fear more for their safety than their freedom, deserve neither, and shall surely lose both.” Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson…one of those old white guys…..

     • We lobby for our rights because we DO understand what they are, and we know that we need to protect them — or claw them back — from evil people and encroaching idiots.

       “Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats.” – H.L. Mencken

   • Brillant.
     May I use your comments in my future discussions with others to further our cause regarding pistol braces?

10. Gun Control relies heavily on knee jerk reactions to crimes committed by criminals. I refuse to surrender to such knee jerk Gun Control trash that comes at the drop of a hat and throws me into camp with criminals. And it is done all based on a crime or crimes that has nothing, nada to do with me or with anyone else other than the perps.

    Who the f do these certain pompous jerks with badges think they are to do things like that? During times like this it is difficult to tell who is more disgusting? The perps or the badges.

    • “Who the f do these certain pompous jerks with badges think they are to do things like that?”

      hey, they’re just employees doing what they’re told. now the ones behind them, they think that they’re humans and that you aren’t, that you’re created by god to serve them and so you need to be declawed and dehorned so you’re harmless.

11. What would happen if 40 million folk turned themselves (but not their guns and braces) in on the same day? We could arrange it through social media.

    • They will be happy to take your name and mail you the felony charges…

12. The very definition of tyranny.
    For they cannot rule over free men, we must all become criminals at their mercy.

13. Anyone who says “it’s a law” or “enact” misses the entire point: it’s an interpretation of the law as an agency granted by Congress and they only write a regulation. While backed by law, the ATF has to win in court to prove it. What keeps most shooters in line is the huge expense, being arrested, etc.

    No, it is NOT a “law” that the ATF will “enact.” That takes Congress. And once the period for comment is closed, the ATF then has to review the findings, then amend where directed, post their determination, after which point a set date is established. If that even happens. They don’t have a real good batting average on that.

    Of the 40 million or so who may be using a brace, a substantial number will flat out ignore it, the same as New York citizens ignore the SAFE Act, with the backing of most of the Sheriffs who signed a by name declaration of non enforcement. Let me add that MO is now declared to refuse to enforce Federal overreach just like this.

    For the most part, tho, some won’t have to do much to make them compliant. They will take off an accessory or two, done. Legal AR pistol. Others will remove the barrel and done, incomplete weapon, not a pistol not a rifle. And that means a few million will immediately attempt to buy a barrel, leaving the shelves empty for months, and most won’t get a barrel shipped, just a backorder notice. Others may just pin on a barrel extension and add a normal stock, it’s now a rifle, done. There are a lot of work arounds out there. That’s the brilliance of the AR – it’s components, not an irreversibly unchangeable firearm.

    It’s not going to immediately make 40 million of us felons, and adjudication by a judge is required. What is alarming is that it takes that kind of headline to get shooters attention, as most aren’t even connected to firearms news. The word is still getting out, and for the most part it’s the same thing over again, it’s not my gun, you crazy pistol owners pushed your luck and too bad for you.

    We have met the real enemy, and he is us, the gun owners are divided, and basically useless when it comes to defending our rights. “They won’t take my shotgun.” “Nobody is trying to outlaw hunting rifles.” “Nobody needs magazines that have 30 rounds in them.” “I lost all my guns in a tragic boating accident.”

    You cannot comply your way out of tyranny – you either stand up for your rights or they will be taken by the people we elected – who are stabbing us in the back. AKA the Democratic TX state legislators who broke quorum to fly to DC and prevent new voter laws being enacted. We fight underhanded and vicious cheaters at every turn, yet do nothing.

    It’s been said you get the Congress you deserve, lately that is more true than ever.

    Keep in mind this will be another repeat of some who felt they had to work for the ATF pro bono to enforce regulations at their place of business by banning all braces on the premises. And they are no better than the ones who supported the Vichy government in France – the toadies for the Nazis who kept their own people in line. Your first line of defense is to already know who they are – don’t frequent their premises and find greener pastures. If they become known as sympathizers of the ATF, stop giving them your discretionary money. Work with other vendors. And spread the word among friends. If they can’t stand for freedom, then they will kneel down for anything, just like Kamala.

    It is their intended goal to get you to kneel and obey. As if the last year hasn’t made that obvious.

    • “We have met the real enemy, and he is us, the gun owners are divided, and basically useless when it comes to defending our rights.”

      Not the gun owners I know, son…

      • Actually, I’m proudly a pre-vert, but with years of practice, will become one someday.

        You, on the other hand, will spend the rest of your life alone… 🙂

14. Two criminal acts by killers using AR pistols and the ATF moves to ban them. Its clear the Biden regime does not care about human life as more babies are murdered every minute by Bidens polices than people are killed by pistol braced guns in a decade.

    • A big part of the idea for making braces illegal came from some jackasses on YouTube. They were obviously not handicapped and were shouldering what could be considered a SBR all over YouTube.
      This was when Trump was in office so it’s not exactly a new thing.

      The powers that be (the ATF) watched the same videos and said hey, that’s a SBR! The Honey Badger/ATF debacle ensued. On 8/3/20 the ATF sent a cease and desist letter to Q LLC (the maker of the Honey Badger). Then is political grandstanding on 10/9/20 the Justice Department sent it’s own letter suspending the ATFs nonsense for 60 days, basically waiting to see what the outcome of the POTUS election was going to be.

      Biden won the election, he prefers that the US populace be unarmed, is trying to push a mentally unfit Nazi idiot through to be the head of the ATF aka David Chipman. If nominated things will get much worse for every gun owner but the problem is WE keep giving these idiots ideas.

      The ATF had no clue about stabilizing braces until a bunch of morons showed up on YouTube showing off their cool SBRs by shouldering them. Someone at the ATF saw this (it could have been a janitor), took a look at the regulations on the books and said “isn’t this illegal”?
      Some higher up said Bob the janitor has made a valid point and the debacle ensued.

      Apples to Oranges do you know how I can get my neighbors lawn cut? I mow mine and within an hour the neighbor will mow his, he cannot come up with an idea on his own so he will watch me mow and then mow his. I have proven this theory over the years and on Sunday night at 8PM when it was almost dark out the neighbor and beginning to rain the neighbor was mowing his lawn. When I did mine at 6:30 I had plenty of light left and it wasn’t raining.

      What does this have to do with stabilizing braces? As a whole we have to quit giving these people ideas. The ATF is a monkey see, monkey do operation. Biden is somewhere in a heavy fog and our Rights are trying to be taken from us without any due process. They don’t even have the legal ability to do this but with this administration forget about Rights. In their eyes we have no Rights so they are not even going to follow any kind of due process. It will get much worse for the 2A if Chipman gets nominated so lets stop giving these people ideas.

      They don’t care about due process or any Rights but as a whole when it comes to down to it, anything that they can take away from us is just a game to them. To us it’s a flagrant violation of our Rights but really nobody cares. If you are counting on SCOTUS to save our asses then you might be delusional.

      The take away is if you find a way to file of a part of your Glocks fire control that makes it full auto, keep it to yourself. Maybe show some close friends. Whatever you do don’t put a video up on YouTube showing how to do it. We have to weather this storm until sanity is restored or eventually fight to have sanity restored. Don’t give the monkeys any ideas and they will keep eating their bananas. If WE show them how to make the banana into a RPG then whose fault is that?

      The ATF lunchroom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmcwCtP4YBI

      • Biden ̶w̶o̶n̶ 𝘀𝘁𝗼𝗹𝗲 the election…

        FIFY.

        Slowly we learn just how corrupt the election was;

        BREAKING: VoterGA Releases Explosive New Report: Fulton County Georgia Recount Included 60% Error Reporting Rate — THOUSANDS of Fraudulent Biden Votes

        • TTAG Your comment was marked as spam. If this is in error, please contact the admin.

          TTAG is censoring the link;

          *** thegatewaypundit (dot) com *** for the above story.

        • I just kind of that was a given, some very sketchy things went on in Georgia during the election for POTUS and then the Senate. The one seat was iffy but the other seat should have been a blow out and there should not have been a run off. When the 2nd seat lost to the Democrats in the run off, a lot of people questioned exactly what was going on in Georgia.
          By a lot of people I mean most of the Republicans in office in Texas.
          TTAG doesn’t want to be sued by Dominion so your link was removed.

      • when people want to show off what they can do…pretty soon you can’t…don’t make it easy for them…

15. The bodies in a local WalMart or grocery store or school or church……the bad guy with a gun…..or the gang member with a gun…. the mentally deficient guy with a gun (today, all the better if a brace is attached; or, a homemade, unserialized gun is used))……or the terribly distraught family member of a gun shooting victim…… or a gun violence survivor……or the Feelz-Gooder Social Do-Gooder….. or the the “hair-on-fire, we’re-all-gonna-die” contingent……or the skin color only voter…..are the politician’s easily manipulated Useful Idiot Tools to achieve his power and control agenda.
    The new agenda for humanity requires that no one will have the capacity to fight back. It has been said: “Our Task of creating a Socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.” No other explanation is possible.

16. Oh well now I’m an outlaw and racist with no input of my own. So be it

17. Same kind of nonsense the jackbooted thugs were promulgating back in the Klinton days. Then using to massively abuse lawabiding citizens.

18. 1. The weapon must weigh at least 64 ounces.
    2. The weapon must have an overall length between 12 and 26 inches.

    Says WHOM? How long until the thugs apply this same “rule” to all handguns?

19. It’s not a mistake, it’s by design. 40 million former voters no longer able to exercise that “privilege” makes for a far easier road for Democrats in future elections–it’s very doubtful that the affected gun owners would have voted for them in the first place anyway.

    A weaponized federal agency can be a very dangerous thing…

20. David Chipman will create over 100 million felons overnight.

21. So if there are 40 million brace owners what are there only 118,000 comments against this on the atf site?

22. It’s stupid and totally asinine a device which makes handguns more accurate (which is a GOOD thing), harder to conceal, and helps disabled people shoot. For that matter, it’s stupid to regulate the SBR more strictly than handguns, since an SBR is more accurate (which is a GOOD thing) and harder to conceal than a handgun.

    But where does this article get this number “40 million people” supposedly owning arm-braced pistols? There aren’t even 40 million people owning AR-15 rifles (the usual figures I see are somewhere between 15 and 25 million owners of AR-15s), so we’re supposed to believe that there are twice as many people owning AR-15 pistols as there are people owning AR-15 rifles? I bet the real number is closer to 1 million than 40 million.

    • Oops, there’s a typo in my comment above, as I left out the words “to ban.”
      What I meant to say was, “It’s stupid and totally asinine to ban a device which makes handguns more accurate (which is a GOOD thing), harder to conceal, and helps disabled people shoot.”

    • yeah…I was wondering about that figure too…the left likes to pull numbers out of their ass…let’s not be like them…

23. If this comes to pass, I’ve no intentions of complying with arbitrary and capricious law changes by an Unconstitutional Bureau.
    In which case, I may just as well put buffer tubes that support regular stocks on my AR Pistols. Either way I’m a felon and might as well be hung for a sheep rather than a lamb.

    I’m 60, in declining health due to Degenerative Joint Disease. My end promises to be painful and protracted in extremis. A quicker death by a hail of bullets promises a cleaner death. I’ve no illusions about surviving the coming conflict. But I vow to take as many Geheime Staatspolizei personnel with me as I can. I’d rather die in a pile of spent brass than be “…reduced under absolute Despotism..:

    SIC SEMPER TYRANNUS

    • I’m 62 and I don’t believe you for a second. Prove me wrong.

      ( I already know what your trite little response will be… )

24. The 90 day public comment period on such proposals is running as I write . Have you, dear reader, expressed yourself in opposition to this latest example of bureaucratic aggrandizement double-talk or in plain English, hogwash? in not, how come?

    • Can you post the link for the 90-day public comment period on this rule? That would make it easier for us to post our comments against it. Thanks!

25. Arguably going after ALL of your guns. A felon cannot own, hold, or be in the vicinity of any firearm.

26. If they locked up the gang bangers for 30 to life, or gave them a choice of a wood chipper at sundown, we wouldn’t have these issues! Oh yeah the a t f, always taking freedoms!

27. I have to believe that it is the intent of the ATF to prevent as many Americans from possessing firearms as possible. The easiest way is to make Americans felons. ‘nuf said?

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