Aurora Police Shoot Homeowner Invasion Gunfight
courtesy google.com

“’This is a very heartbreaking and tragic situation for everyone involved. We are providing assistance through our victim advocates to help the family of the deceased resident through this very difficult time,’ (Aurora, Colorado) Police Chief Nick Metz said in a statement.” That was the Chief’s statement after a homeowner was shot and killed by Aurora police who responded to reports of shots fired inside a home in the Denver suburb. A child was also injured at some point during the incident and has been hospitalized.

From initial media reports, police arrived while a shootout between the unidentified homeowner and an attacker was still going on.

Police said when they arrived the scene was “chaotic and violent” and officers heard gunshots from inside the home at 10609 E. Montview Blvd.

Officers then encountered an armed man and an officer shot the man, killing him.

Details are scarce at this point. Details like exactly where the officers encountered the man they shot. It’s possible the homeowner walked outside holding a firearm after the gunfight inside was over, but again, that isn’t clear.

Investigators later determined the man the officer killed had shot and killed the intruder before police shot and killed him.

Assuming the homeowner did walk out holding a gun, did he in inadvertently raise it toward the officers outside? After hearing the “chaotic and violent” gunfight in the house, did a nervous cop shoot the first person to emerge from the house?

Police said the investigation is ongoing and they are working with the Adams County district attorney’s office as well as Denver police. Because of the ongoing investigation, police said they can’t release further details.

More information could be released later this week after investigators interview all of the parties involved, police said.

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200 COMMENTS

    • He should have just ran away and left his family in the house. His duty is to retreat and let the police handle it. He is a vigilante that thought he could take the law into his own hands. Common sense tells you that if you have a gun you are many times more likely to be shot by police because the average law abiding person does not bear nor keep arms in our highly advanced society. He would still be alive, and his kid wouldn’t have been shot by the police, if he just gave the criminal what he wanted even if that was sex.

      Good shooting by the cops. It’s such a dangerous and difficult job. They only have a split second to pull the trigger on a kids and adults. It’s better they shoot first because they have to go home to their family safe (that’s of the most importance). It’s unfortunate sometimes they get it wrong, but you can’t blame them. They can give a little money to the family to make them happy and the officers will get more training to stop this from happening again and again. Officer safety will always be first priority in such dangerous and chaotic events, that includes school shootings.

      • When you troll like this you need to be a bit more subtle in order to actually make people believe you are this retarded. Your idiocy is too over the top. Nice try though.

      • CZJay: Are you really that freaking stupid or are you pulling someones chain????
        Inquiring minds want to really know, because the scenario you just described is insanity at work.
        Was the armed man challenged or just shot by an untrained less skilled semi-LEO??????????
        I spent 20 years as a cop in North St. Louis County and encountered violent and armed people every week day. Not once did I just shoot someone out of hand, this speaks to poor training and lack of responsible leadership among that departments people.

      • Bwahahahaha…. Well done CZJay. The sad part is that your over the top excuse making is so good, you fooled some as real cop apologist. That just goes to show you the level of excuse making we see now days from the popo boot lickers.

      • CZ, I am guessing that that is an attempt at sarcasm.

        But Seriously incidents like this story are as rare as death by lightening.

        It is a sad story, but none of us know the full facts of this incident yet, for all we know the cops are totally to blame, or for all we know they are not to blame at all.

        The only thing we can say based on facts is civilians with firearms prevetn over two million crimes a year, while incidents like the one in this story are are profoundly rare, on the risk order of getting struck by lightening

        • I tell my CCW students the chances of have to use their firearm to defend themselves is as rare as being struck by lightning.

          Then I state the fact that I know 4 people who have been struck by lightning

      • After the first sentence, I can’t tell if he’s missing a sarc tag or is purely trolling. Even a true gun grabbet wouldn’t advocate abandoning your child.

      • Jay you get the 5 Kudos I am allowed by law and contractual agreement to allot per day. Also please print out the coupon at the following link to claim a lifetime supply of free beer and Hooters waitresses.

      • This is the most stupid comment I’ve read this year.

        Run away while your wife and child is being attacked or raped?

        You have sh*t for brains.

      • Some people will understand this as satire, some people will think you’re serious, and far too many people will agree with everything you’ve said…

        • Sadly, most of that I heard coming out of Americans’ mouths. From cops, teachers, politicians, trainers, lawyers, etc. I had to throw in some blunt ridiculousness to not come off as some police chief or a professor of a highly regarded school. Unfortunately, if I had stood in-front of the average crowd saying those things in a more politically correct manner I would have gotten cheers.

          Notice how my first paragraph speaks a lot to the people on the Left and my second paragraph speaks a lot to the people on the Right.

          Politics is so easy because people are too easy. Sometimes you just have to make jokes to maintain positivity.

        • When you’re so uptight that you can’t identify satire when you see it, perhaps you should switch to more decaf-type blogs.

        • CZJay i got your satire. sadly it about hits the nail on the head. wish it was not so. at the school i am cleaning at the other day i found out that some of the boys (it is a primary school) have been kicking in doors. my comment on that was they are practicing for their future careers in crime or law enforcement…. but i repeat myself. just sad that it is true. most everybody used to look up to law enforcement as vital upstanding members of the community. sadly it is not the case anymore

      • Way to many commenters here aren’t smart enough to recognize blatant humorous sarcasm from a regular reliable pro-2A commenter (CZJay). WTF, are they drunk?

      • I think CJ is a professional PIO for a police department. He won’t last, though.
        He is too straight forward.

      • You are a coward! You would run away if someone was hurting a child, and trust the trigger happy aurora pd, there on the news all the time for miss conduct. Hope some one gets killed in your family. Heartless sob

      • “Officer safety will always be first priority in such dangerous and chaotic events, that includes school shootings.”

        I sense the anger in your sarcasm. I’m also very angry.

    • Because a discerning fellow like you would instantly identify the guy waving the gun as the homeowner. /Sarc

      • I would shout “Stop, in the name of love!” and “Throw your hands in the air and wave them like you just don’t care!”

        • I dunno it could start a spontaneous street party. I prefer the much more effective Stop! Collaborate and Listen. Because then they think Ice is back with a brand new invention and they are expecting something to grab a hold of them tightly.

      • If the cops couldn’t instantly identify him as the homeowner, that implies they couldn’t instantly identify him as the attacker either.
        Here’s a crazy idea: don’t shoot at somebody, unless you’re certain you need to.

        • I’m guessing he has never been in the military. He’s just been trained to shoot when he sees a threat.

        • When I was in elementary school we used to play “kill the guy with the ball” at recess. Nowadays cops do the same – and figure it all out later.

    • Cops…like all humans…make mistakes.
      I’m sure you have folks in your profession that are far from perfect as well.
      We were not there…we have a tiny part of the story.
      At least the cops went in…unlike at Parkland.

      • Cops, unlike “normal civilians” have a job which requires much more responsibility than the regular people. They need to and should be held to a higher standard of conduct. If one cannot accept and hold that responsibility, find another job asap. There are plenty of good jobs for ex-police officers that don’t have the same responsibility and danger.

        • It’s a job you’re barred from holding if you score too highly on the candidate I.Q. exam. I’m not surprised by these screwups; I’m only surprised that some people are surprised by them.

        • “It’s a job you’re barred from holding if you score too highly on the candidate I.Q. exam.”

          I was stunned to find that Austin, a least a few years ago, allowed people who hadn’t graduated HS to be hired as cops. All that was required was that they had “attended HS”. Apparently, if someone had dropped out in the 9th grade, they could still be hired to be an Austin cop. As a practical matter, this meant that Austin was putting people on it’s police force who could very well lack the literacy skills to understand written law and/or lacked the intellectual ability to understand the abstractions inherent in written laws.

        • This has been happening around the world for at least 30 years now. The IQ level used to be much higher for entry into the police force but those in the bureaucracy who are pushing for total control and removal of rights and liberties want low IQ people in those jobs so they “just follow orders” and not question if the orders are moral or just. It is not just in the US that this has been happening. This is part of why civil war is coming whether we like it or not. It is either that or we simply surrender and accept slavery 🙁 the latter is not something i could accept

      • How many mistakes are you going to allow an airline pilot? A brain surgeon?

        This is just another example of why cops should be disarmed.

        • An airline pilot may only get one mistake depending on how the plane crashes. A brain surgeon can make many, many mistakes if his malpractice insurance is current.

        • The argument for disarming cops is equivalent to the arguments for disarming civilians.

        • Japanese cops mostly just sit at a desk in a koban unless they’re out searching people’s homes. They don’t have any concept of individual rights or freedoms in Japan. If they do patrols, they are most certainly armed (with 5-shot Airweight J-frames). The Yakuza and cults have been known to smuggle in and stockpile machineguns and stuff from China, Thailand, and North Korea, by the way.

        • New Continental Army ,
          Cops are civilians. I am a citizen. There is a big difference. Cops have the privilege of being armed while they are on the job. A privilege that the citizens can remove from them. If they don’t like it, they are more than welcome to find honest employment where they are not living off the sweat of the citizen’s brow.

      • True dat,

        Just curious though, if I make that same mistake with the cop on the ground surrounded by chalk, do you think the police chief gives me the benefit of the doubt?

        Or am I enjoying a long stay at the ironbar motel, or being the subject of chalk graffiti?

        I suspect I know the answer, but hell, I’ve been wrong so many times in my life i can’t count. I am married after all. 🙂

        • It’s happened where a bad cop was shot dead and the “civilian” got away with self-defense, but it’s rare. You would not be forgiven for an accidental shooting or injury of a cop, but the cop who shot this guy in Aurora will most certainly be given a couple weeks of paid leave and then be back on the streets looking for more “civilians” to oppress.

      • Well, I wish you were a cop. Then, maybe another goofball that thinks just like you, would fix your “stupid” for us all.

    • Did you have to take classes to become such a BLM losertarian /anarchist DB?

      Or did it just come from all the dope you smoke.

    • In this particular case, I would be on the side believing the police mess up on this one.

      First, the home owner was a decorated Vietnam veteran, which probably make him well into his late 60s, early 70’s.

      The officer who shot the home owner probably engaged his trigger before his brain. The probability that a home invader/robber was 60/70 years old is almost nil. Either he didn’t identity his target, or just shot at the first person he saw as he entered the house.

      There probably is more information being withheld. Did the person that called 911, have additional information that would have aided the police in assessing the situation.

      Did the officer identify himself before firing? Did the police call out when they entered the home?

      Did the home owner point his weapon at police?

  2. No words to describe how terrible that is. To prevail over an intruder and then killed by the “first” responder. It is a friendly fire incident and maybe the police officer felt justified but it will never absolve them of ultimate responsibility. An innocent person was killed.

    • If “ultimate responsibility” is in reference to religion… However, the law is not likely to charge the officer with anything. At most the tax payers will give the family some compensation for the wrongful death like they do for Iraqis and Afghanis that die from military operations. Maybe a few thousands will suffice.

  3. This incident demonstrates why armed citizens are less likely to shoot the wrong person than police. We know who the bad guy is while the officers rolling up don’t.

    Best practice after a DGU is to avoid displaying your firearm. Holster it or put in on the ground. The last thing you want a hyped up cop to see is a person waving a gun around.

    • “Best practice after a DGU is to . . .” brace for a Secondary Attack.

      If the DGU’r had unloaded on arriving police, he’d be more justified by the circumstances than the incident that actually occurred.

      • Yeah he would be justified , problem is we all know how the cops / DA would spin it & he would end up in jail. ” just saying ” it does sadden me to know the child was hurt & no longer has a father. Fire the cops & make them do jail time , pay restitution to the family , GO to jail. Irresponsible untrained idiots just itching to shoot someone !! Rule of law should apply to all LEO’S included.

    • I have been saying (in a half joking way) if you have a gun you are going to need body armor to protect yourself from the cops. If you bear arms in public, it’s not a bad idea to have a concealable vest to protect you… If you bear arms in-doors, you should have a plate carrier ready to throw on.

      Why go without body armor when priority number one is not getting shot? You have to worry about getting shot by criminals and cops. If you get one of those small steel chest inserts, it can protect you from getting stabbed in the heart as well.

      • I think you actually have a pretty good point about body armor here. The vast majority of criminal opponents and police are using handguns, mainly in 9/40/45, all of which are pretty easily stopped by vests.

        • JBTs responding to “shots fired” will bust out ARs and shotguns, and that will give you a bad day if all you’re wearing is IIA and they decide you made them “fear for [their] lives.”

        • That is true, in a lot of places, however I personally know of departments that forbid patrol officers from having ARs in their cars because they’re too “menacing”. And only SWAT have ARs in those particular jurisdictions.

      • Seriously. No. The data show millions of crimes prevented by civilian gun owners a year with their firearm and these incidents like this story are as rare as death by lightening.

        It is a sad story, but none of us know the full facts of this incident yet and the only thing we can say based on facts is they are profoundly rare.

        • The thing about armor is it protects you from criminals and cops. It only takes that one time… Since you are going to carry and use your gun when necessary, it only makes sense to lessen the risk for the same reason you own a gun. If you are one of those unfortunate people that can’t carry in public, having a vest and a knife is your only means of defense.

          My house has been shot at before, I had someone threaten to stab me with a screwdriver, cops pointed guns at me because I was suspicious, I’ve been chased by a car full of gang members, my friend was jumped by 4-6 race based gang members that pulled up in a van, I’ve been threaten at least 3 other times by associates of a local gangs, my brother was jumped by a Mexican gang while walking home, my house was broken into a few times, gangs would spray paint my brick wall and threaten us when we would remove it, etc. I think that is enough reasons to — at the very least — buy some body armor (then a gun).

          These days you don’t have to worry as much about gangs unless you live in one of those states that has the new gang culture. You do have to worry about political violence from the racist Communist youth that hate cops and Americans.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfEl6K2fpeY

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkTjHiaHrUM

      • Body armor’s cost is similar to firearms. It can’t be used against you. It can’t jam. You can’t accidentally shoot someone with body armor. It provides a measure of protection from behind. You can line a backpack or briefcase with a plate to duck behind. Body armor can be worn in Federal buildings and schools. Plus, body armor and conceal carry aren’t mutually exclusive.

        Outside of people calling you paranoid if they find out, there is literally no downside. Body armor is demonstrably better than conceal carry and even better, stacks.

    • Just maybe…when arriving on scene and NOT knowing what’s happening…its best to avoid shooting anyone until you’re up to speed.

      Frankly I wouldn’t want to work with someone who didn’t want to be certain that shooting someone was the right call before they pulled the trigger. Sounds like either recklessness or cowardice, and either way I don’t want them near me with a gun.

      No telling from the article what went down here, and it may be that the homeowner absolutely screwed himself, but quite a few people have been shot/killed by cops who had no business being cops. There really ought to be a way for cops to anonymously black ball other cops that they know damn well shouldn’t be on the job…bound to cut down on the worst of these incidents.

      • Yeah, unfortunately, cops who do report other cops are the ones who get blackballed. The police are like a political party. If you don’t toe the line you get ostracized (and also fired).

        And then you become Chocolate Rambo, and the dirty cops turn some old lady’s pickup truck into Swiss cheese and burn your cabin down.

  4. Did law enforcement have their vehicle lights flashing, instruct the man to drop the gun and that they were the police or did they just start shooting?

    • Just as an FYI, only in the movies law enforcement pulls up with vehicle lights flashing in front of a home. Law enforcement always parks away and out of sight (if they are practicing correct officer safety) and approaches on foot. When you drive past a home and see two cop cars parked in front of it (IE a domestic), most likely, that is not the home of the incident. It is no different with active situations such as what occurred here.

      What has come out is less than 1% of any accurate information regarding the incident. Until it goes before a grand jury and official reports and testimony are released, it is nothing more than speculation and an opportunity for everyone to “hate the cops” and “make assumptions.” I hope everyone on here can take the high road and not jump to any conclusions.

      We don’t know how the homeowner behaved, we don’t know how the officer behaved, and we don’t know any positions, or for that matter, ANYTHING about the incident, other than a homeowner or resident is dead, and so is another person. We don’t even know the relationship of the other person to the homeowner. We don’t even know if he was an unknown intruder, a relative, or someone that was justified being on the property.

      I’m just putting this out here. We don’t like it when liberals spin “facts” before actual facts come out, and so lets be the better people in this incident and “above reproach” in our comments section and wait till we have actual evidence and reports.

      • Jeff in CO said: “I’m just putting this out here. We don’t like it when liberals spin “facts” before actual facts come out. . . ”

        Here is a fact:

        Government employees killed a citizen defending his home against criminals.

      • Standing on the proverbial soapbox and jumping to conclusions is the only mental exercise some people get.

        Was the victim half deaf and stressed from shooting?
        Did the cops yell directions that the disoriented victim just couldn’t hear?
        Define exactly, chaos?
        Many questions need to be asked and answered before a metaphorical lynching of the cops in my opinion.

        • I’m sure when their “report” comes out, that’s exactly what it will say. I guess we’ll have to excuse them their cowardice. Back the blue! Blue lives matter!

          Give me a f**king break.

      • Where exactly are you getting this information? I did a bunch of ride-alongs with the Sheriffs Dept, city PD, and State Troopers as part of a research project and they always pulled up directly in front of the house/business where the incident was reported. Depending on the situation (i.e. emergency), lights were flashing. The only LEOs who parked around the corner were the ones who came late to the party and they parked there because………. thats where the only open spaces left were. And thats just my personal, direct experience. Look at any one of the millions of police vids on youtube and you’ll see that in every single one of them the LEOs are pulling up, often with lights flashing, directly in front of the domicile/business where the action is going down. So again, where exactly are you getting this information?

        • I spent over 8 years as an LEO with a major SO in CO. You are trained to NEVER pull in front of the place where the incident is taking place. You should ALWAYS park down and away. Unfortunately, many get lazy and lax as they continue through the years. This is a major officer safety issue, and it is how a lot of injuries from ambushes have occurred. If you call the police and see my car at the start of the incident before you ever see me, I have messed up. This is also true for any bank alarm, residential alarm, etc.

          I’m sorry to hear that you were placed in a bad situation doing ride-a-longs. If this is true, the people you rode with not only consistently violated basic officer safety rules, but placed you in danger as a rider by pulling up right in front of an incident as the first on scene. The “late to the game” people are the only ones that should ever be pulling up in front of an incident once the scene is secure and “cold.”

          Just out of curiosity, what state are you in? I’m quite “shocked” about what you are saying. Just ask Acur81 or any of the other LEO’s on here as to what protocol should be. Think about it, if there is a bank alarm and it is an actual robbery, do you want to create a potential hostage situation by pulling up front?

        • Jeff in CO,
          Oregon. Was with various ‘levels’ of LEOs as well. From new guys (who would presumably be following all the rules to a T) to older veteran officers/deputies. Perhaps just varience in SOPs over various regions? Perhaps because all the calls that I was along for were pretty routine? (Domestic disturbance I understand can get out of hand, but the ones I saw were just amazing/uncomfortable/surreal/horrible/shameful all at once.) The area in which I reside is mostly rural with some suburban – so perhaps that is a factor? I’m guessing different SOPs here and the fact that most of what I saw was pulling over drunks/speeder, shoplifting reports, big tree fell across road, lots of welfare checks (many which were dudes who seemed to be trying to spy on their cheating girlfriends), and domestic disturbances. Some things I learned

          -LEOs are pretty damn funny
          -Holy shit the job is mostly boring
          -Holy shit did my ass and back hurt from sitting in the car for almost 8 hours
          -My dear Jesu Christo domestic disturbances are the worst thing on earth to be involved in/witness.

          • Gladius,

            Thanks for sharing your experiences! I’m glad you were able to do all of those ride-a-longs! I encourage people to do multiple rides. It definitely gives a different perspective, especially when news stories like this pop up as you have seen.

            It must be a west coast thing. It seemed to me, when I was still doing it that it was some of the most “routine” calls that went from 0-100 like that. It’s also usually surprises people how much paperwork is actually involved.

            I’ve been quite amazed at reading a lot of the comments on here over the last 36-hours (this part is not directed at Gladius), including statements such as, “the only good cop is a dead cop.” We often accuse the left and mainstream media of “fake news,” “jumping to conclusions before the facts are out,” etc. I had a monumental moment early in my law enforcement career. It was the first major incident I was on with major media coverage. I remember getting home that night and watching the news thinking to myself as they listed out the “facts and timeline,” “Were we even on the same incident???” The “facts” weren’t even close, and the timeline, including conclusion of the incident was off by hours! The first time I heard an accurate report of the incident on the news was approximately two years later.

            On here, I believe the majority of people are constitutionalists. The constitution calls for due process, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, and in the case of criminal cases, trial by jury. This is what has made America great! I agree that sometimes it is drawn out longer than we wish, and I would rather have that over people being consistently falsely imprisoned. When the left goes against this in commentary, we jump them. What has been written on this page regarding this incident is no different and is frankly disgusting. With people such as Sasha Cohen Baron now “ambushing” people of the gun and conservatives with his new show, I sure hope someone like him doesn’t come to this page. Everything you write on the internet, whether right or wrong, is permanent.

            If a homeowner makes a mistake and hits the wrong person in a self defense shooting, we tell people to “let the facts come out,” “don’t jump to conclusions,” and “oh boy, waiting for the antis in 3, 2, 1 . . .” This is NO different! A trial, jury, and execution has taken place based on initial mainstream “fake news media” reporting “hearsay,” the same people that everyone will be criticizing tomorrow, but it’s accurate today????

            Like I said, I sure hope nobody from the left reads these permanent comments . . .

        • Jeff in CO,
          Yeah, I already had a pretty good inkling about the enormity of the paperwork. What really was interesting to me was the drunk driving arrests. Here in OR the LEOs can only do a breathalyzer test at the jail. So between the initial pull-over, the field sobriety tests, the arrest process, and eventually getting to the county jail the average elapsed time was over 2 hours. That is a long time for BAC to come down but all of them blew well over the limit. Another funny bit – with each ridealong I asked the officer at the beginning if it was OK if I broke out my Copenhagen and every single one of them said something along the lines of, “SURE! I was hoping you weren’t going to be some hippy freak.” I guess out here a lot of weirdo hippies do ride alongs and tend to get up in the cops’ grills during the process.

          I was also suprised with how much crime they allowed people to ‘get away with.’ One call I observed the LEO was told that a reported missing girl had been spotted at a hookah bar. Talking to people there we both observed a number of obviously underage kids drinking. When back in the car to go search at another possible location, the officer said, “we both know those kids were breaking the law, but we have something more important to do right now.” Not as suprising to me, but interesting to note was how the cops essentially knew who all the criminals were, yet lacked the evidence needed to arrest them.

          Yeah, I don’t trust the media at all. I find it interesting that pretty much everyone on this site feels the same way, yet somehow when the media reports a cop shooting someone will automatically believe the media report 100% and go into cop-killa NWA mode. I think a lot of the disappointment (just like on the left) and rage and accusations of totalitarian police state when the cop who shoots someone gets off in court or is not charged is due to the fact that the MSM straight up lies about everything and you are a sucker if you believe any of it. None of the local NWA/libertarians on this site seem to notice that there are plenty of cases where an officer makes a bad shoot and goes to prison; the duder in the Carolinas is a good example. He shot a guy running away and the jury looked at the evidence and convicted him. I think Mike the Cop on Youtube has done a great job of breaking down a lot of these shootings as well as just generally humanizing the badge. I would highly recommend his chanel to people (shit, I support him on patreon with the ca$h money!)

          Ultimately, I am very glad I did those ride-alongs. A lot of learning and a lot of fun and even made some friends with some jackbooted, commie-fascist, totalitarian thugs (lol!) I’m planning to do more and re-work my research paper into an article. I have a friend who teaches writing at the local CC who has been published (amazing work) and has some ins in the publishing industry and he has been helping me with editing and such.

          Take it easy good sir.

  6. Did the homeowner call for the cops? The news story doesn’t make that clear. I haven’t been able to find any indication that the homeowner called 911 or told someone to call 911 on his behalf.

    If the homeowner did not call for the police, then by what policy/law/etc did the police have the power to make entry into that building? I’m sure they had no warrant in the brief amount of time they spent charging in.

    If the homeowner did not call 911 and the homeowner did not ask for police presence, then this is second degree murder by the officer.

    • Umm, no. What you are saying is that if the homeowner, for whatever reason (e.g. being in a shootout with a bad guy, being raped and mercilessly beaten and strangled) was unable to dial 911, then the police cannot enter. Tell that to the next rape victim whose screams alert the next-door neighbor. Witnesses call 911 all the time, and the fact that the witness is not immediately involved is irrelevant. The fact is that the police had ‘exigent circumstances” that permitted entry without a warrant.

      • Yup, that little chestnut…Same thing the police officers in Boston and Watertown use to go house to house and forcibly search homes. Which had nothing to do with Boston Marthon terror attack…

      • I believe its time for the rules of engagement to be changed for Police Officer’s…
        LEO Academy training needs to change…All this needs to put in the public forum. No secret squirrel s***! I’m all for a Nationwide Ban on ALL Police Unions!
        Full Independent Civilian Review Boards for all rank and file Police Officer’s. Including the Chief of Police…For accountability to the general public…
        For now, return Police officers to modern 6-7 shot revolvers with proper marksmanship skills—for accountability to the general public. No more auto-pistols for LEO’s. No more spray and prey tactics. Sanctity of a civilian Life should be priority number one…Meaning no more Paramilitarized Navy Seal mentality…No more Paramilitarized Police Commandos…. For the children….

        • “I believe its time for the rules of engagement to be changed for Police Officer’s…”

          To this I would add that police departments need to begin communicating their rules-of-engagement more fully with the public. America has been arming itself—which is something local police forces apparently work hard to ignore. Educating the public about what’s going to happen when armed police come to your home and find that you are armed is something that absolutely must happen. But, in addition to that, police departments have to do a better job of learning what to expect when they encounter armed citizens who are defending themselves from an attack. Right now the police rather too tacitly expect armed citizens who have to defend themselves to know they are liable to get shot by arriving police. This is just wrong.

    • Good news. Police dont need warrants to enter buildings or dwellings when emergency circumstances are present. Like gunfire in a house….Or someone shouting from inside a house or building for help.

      There now you are better versed on the law.

      Im surprised by the sheer ignorance people have about warrant requirements. Do some research and you’ll see that warrants, as required by the 4th amendment, also have exigent circumstances which preclude their necessity.

      Good thing to. Someone comes into my house and starts shooting and the cops are outside Id prefer they arent waiting on a magistrate to ok entry. Id prefer they dont shoot me either but given the lack of details here I dont know who to blame yet.

      So your “the homeowner didnt ask for police now he’s guilty of 2nd degree murder” is wrong on 2 counts. First the police dont need to be asked to intervene in a home invasion and 2nd degree murder requires “malice aforethought without premeditation” in most jurisdictions.

      • So, let’s review “the law”

        We already know from cases like Warren v. DC that cops can’t be held accountable when they were called to a residence and they don’t enter (twice!), leaving the occupants to be raped over the timespan of a couple of days. But now you’re saying the opposite is true as well – they can just roll up, declare emergent circumstances, stroll in and smoke the homeowner.

        Good to know. Given the case law, it’s somehow fitting and right.

        • Police can legally enter a home if they have probable cause to believe a crime is taking place (e.g. they hear gunfire in a suburban home). But nothing here says whether they entered or encountered him outside.
          Still they should assume that somebody is mounting an armed defense of the home, if they hear a gunfight, and not be so trigger happy.

    • Exigent circumstances do not require warrants, nor during hot pursuits.

      Let’s not assume anything. Hopefully a thorough investigation is completed and independent witnesses are available for better clarification of the incident. Then, go from there.

  7. Is it my imagination, or do police shoot first and ask questions later happen more often than it used to?

    • No, actually. We just hear about it more. Just like crime in general. Ask any layman wether they think crime is on the rise or going down, and pretty much everyone will confidently state it’s on the rise, when in fact it’s going down. This is because through the news and social media these days, we all hear about crimes WAY more often then we ever have before, and assume crime must be increasing. 20-30 years ago you would’ve never heard of this story, or the gang related triple homocide in *insert city here*. Information has never been more available then it is now, but it also has never been more manipulated then it is now.

      • For us it’s another incident of many. We see a lot of the things that happen around the U.S. not just in our local area. However, when it comes to this issue we have to collect every instance as this isn’t a local problem rather a modern cultural issue.

        I tend to judge my area by how many times I heard sirens and seen a cop or helicopter throughout the week. The less I see the more safe I feel because it’s an indicator (at least in my area) that crime is down. When I start seeing more cops and helicopters I notice more stories in the news…

        It doesn’t matter what the government claims the crime stats are. It’s better to talk to the people that live there.

      • “No, actually. We just hear about it more.”

        Exactly. The Leftists desire every example of ‘gun violence’ that happens to be broadcast far and wide.

        They have an *agenda* to promote.

        If you ask the average American, they will tell tell you ‘gun violence’ has historically never been higher, and it’s only getting worse, even though the opposite has happened…

  8. Remember that your tax money goes to the necessary operations of law enforcement and if you don’t pay your taxes, law enforcement will arrest you and take your stuff, but if you try to protect yourself the hard working union police who already provide you protection will kill you because you don’t take a hard working union man’s job.

    Police are the new mafia in the US today, but there’s no agency to put them away other than us. The reason the founders affirmed the natural right of gun ownership is to fight standing armies-the police our the standing army today.

    • Remember the policy of “asset forfeiture,” where LEO’s would just start grabbing up your personal property as they saw fit – if they thought they could prove an appropriate drug law connection.

      • From what I remember, you have to prove that the property wasn’t acquired through unlawful means. The police can take it if they feel like it was.

  9. Interesting. I thought that the cops only shoot hostages, not homeowners, but it appears that they’ve upped their game.

    Is there anyone who cops won’t kill? And don’t say “other cops,” because they kill them too.

  10. Well, this has me sufficiently outraged. I recall a situation where cops and SWAT smashed the wrong person’s front door in, then fired over a hundred rounds into his body when he appropriately thought it was a robbery and approached with a drawn AR15. I shall wait for more information, since this is still developing, but it increasingly looks like the cops are against us.

    • When/where was that?
      Only thing I can think of is Jose Guerena, but IIRC they had a warrant for his house (a very dubious warrant), and only fired about 20-25 shots at him. (I wonder if that total includes the cop who ran up to the house after the shooting stopped, reached around the cop standing in front of him, and blindly sprayed several shots into the house with his handgun. I also wonder why that cop isn’t in prison right now)

      • Bad memory on my part. They admitted to firing 71 rounds at Guerena and hitting him 60+ times.

      • ” . . . cop who ran up to the house after the shooting stopped, reached around the cop standing in front of him, and blindly sprayed several shots into the house with his handgun. . .”

        You are describing a common police ritual. We see this happen again and again.

  11. All right, sometimes you gotta say something a little controversial to break up the group-think and get people thinking of alternatives. So here it goes.

    It’s time to ban cops.

    Yes, I said it. And here’s what I mean by it: the USA spends $100 billion on police forces each year. You heard that right, $100 billion. We have approximately 350 million people in the USA. That $100 billion is enough to buy each and every person in this country a HiPoint and a box of ammo. Heck, we could wait a year and save up, and that would mean every person in the country could have an M&P or Glock and a box of hollowpoints.

    Citizen Law Enforcement.

    After all, when people fear the government (and its enforcers), there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.

    Radical? Sure, but probably not more radical than the “democratic socialists” on the other side, with their open borders and free health care.

    • “It’s time to ban cops.”

      As long as cops are willing to kill for their Governments, there will always be Governments and cops.

      One cannot exist without the other.

      • Yeah, that’s kind of the point.

        (oh, and I realized that if we don’t give guns to the babies and toddlers, that leaves more money to buy guns for the adults, so maybe in the first year every adult gets at least a Taurus, if not a Glock).

    • Your liberty is also anarchy. In some places it might work alright- rural areas in particular. Nowhere else. And it would quickly swing back to something much more tyrannical than the current system.

      • Anarchy and chaos are not the same thing. Most people live their lives in a state of anarchy. We do not have government thugs watching us every minute of every day or even 10 minutes out of every week.

        • In some American cities the government does have a public camera system to spy on the people. They sit there all day monitoring everyone going about their lives.

        • If most people live there lives in a state of anarchy then why are you going on about disarming and banning cops? Don’t you think those unemployed cops, the ones you consider hyper aggressive, will form a new cop militia and raid your neighborhood?

        • There is the Golden Rule:. Do on to others as you would have done to you.

          There is the Silver Rule:. Don’t do on to others and you would not have done to you.

          There is the Iron Rule:. Do it to them before they do it to you.

          Faux Libertarians, I.e., anarchists believe in the Silver Rule. But the real world, absent law, those that live by the Iron Rule dominate. Who lives by the Iron Rule? Muggers. Gang Bangers, Mafiosas and genocidal megalomaniacs. They rule because they have what Nassim Taleb calls skin in the game. Faux Libertarians confuse skin in the game with money in the game. If you have a bad day in the market there is always tomorrow. A bad day for those with actual skin in the game there is no tomorrow. That is why those that live by the Iron Rule rule the roost.

          My recommendation to those who want to live the faux Libertarian life go move to Somalia and become a pirate. After a year come back and tell us how great the life is — if you are still with us.

        • New Continental Army,

          If the cops are just another street gang, then shooting them won’t be an issue.

          I guess Redcoat lives matter huh?

          Remember, this nation was founded by men who smuggled guns and drugs, rioted, evaded taxes and shot cops.

    • As long as the argument isn’t of this quality:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIdIbDorlFw

      These people complain about police yet don’t want the 2nd amendment being applied in America. You can’t have no police and no armed citizens. If you don’t want an armed citizenry you must have a militarized police state to make up for the numbers lost by disarming the people. You can do away with the current police state if the 2nd amendment is applied throughout the country.

    • This would not lead to any libertarian utopia. Much like the childish musings by the left, this idea will only completely backfire and lead to far more totalitarianism then the police could ever dream of. Because power vaccum. Anytime there’s a power vacuum it gets filled. In Syria it was filled with ISIS. Iraq, Al Queda. Afghanistan, the taliban. Baltimore, BLM thugs. Africa, Africa.,Your simply as daft as the liberals screaming “BAN ICE!!!!”, only from a different political angle. When your cute little plan is enacted, be prepared for everyday of your life to be combat, until your firmly under the rule your local warlord. Cities will imedeatly fall under the rule of racist oppressive gangs. The rural areas will be a mix. Some will for militias and resemble early America. Others not so lucky. Remember power vaccums bring out the worst in humanity. The worst humans who otherwise would’ve lived somewhat “normal” lives or ended up in prison. The “next” Stalin, Hitler, Napoleon, or Mao, is alive right now, and there’s probably a few thousand in America right now. But, due to US stability, most of them went on to end up in prison, die, or live there lives with their dreams of holocaust in there heads. Think of Germany as an example. Hitler never could’ve risen to power in a politically stable Germany. In the situation you describe, your opening up every local to its own mass murderer. But hey, if you like that kind of thing, there’s plenty of places around the world you can visit that will offer a glimpse into that kind of life.

      • I feel a little self projection going on.

        You are kind of arguing against the concept of America and the people who created it.

        Is it possible when two different groups, from opposite sides of the spectrum, agree a specific thing is bad that thing is most likely genuinely bad?

        • Haha, Ok yeah I got a little long winded, but I disagree. The founding fathers were very much against the idea of anarchy. The history of the continental army in the revolution proves this. Washington was ruthless towards mutineers and put down the whiskey rebellion. They tossed the articles of confederation for being too weak of a government. I firmly agree the federal government had grown far beyond its original intent though.

        • New Continental Army

          The Anti Federalists were right and Washington was a traitor for his actions during the Whiskey Rebellion.

      • Jeez, “blood in the streets” much? You sound like a hyperventilating liberal clutching their pearls over open carry or campus carry.

        In my idea, all the laws stay the same, all the courts and jails stay the same, but instead of being a bunch of cowering “subjects” who have to wait for the “authorities” to arrive, citizens would be empowered to defend themselves and each other. That’s it.

        Has this experiment ever been tried anywhere in the world? Where everyone was armed? Not that I know of. Generally it’s a few small groups with all the guns, terrorizing the unarmed. In my thought experiment here, there wouldn’t BE any unarmed. Unless by choice, and … Well, they get what they get.

        “Blood in the streets”? Maybe for the first couple of weeks as the criminal class adjusts to the fact that they are now extinct. After that, you might just see people behaving with a lot more respect for each other. Won’t know until someplace tries it.

        • Ok… think about that for a second. You leave all the courts and jails the same. Who’s going to put people in court and in jails?

        • And then Joe Citizen shows up at the house and sees a guy waving a gun in his direction and shoots him.

  12. That what happens when bad cops make good cops look bad they suck leftist cuck playing boot lickers being trigger happy fags who didnt get to play jack bauer’s on the on the robber so they shoot the owner then use loopholes to get off scott free. It goes to show you cops have a hard time identifying who is who! Bullshit I dont believe it cause a homeowner wont be fully dressed, yet cops are supposed to be trained observers to. Talk about cookie cutter and cutting corners. Most homeowners will be barefooted or in socks, yet thier department will play thier blue wall of silence

  13. “Details are scarce at this point. Details like exactly where the officers encountered the man they shot. It’s possible the homeowner walked outside holding a firearm after the gunfight inside was over, but again, that isn’t clear.”
    And how much does anyone want to bet that the police will do everything they can to keep it that way? To keep all details as scarce as possible, and as unclear as possible?

    • You can say the same thing about the Las Vegas Strip massacre. It was ten months ago and the cops still haven’t finished their coverup.

  15. Well at least the po-leece got home safe. Helluva’ job dipshites…oh wait! AURORA COLORADO you say?!? You don’t need an orange haired shooter-just a trigger-happy cop😩

  16. Was there a dog? Did it survive? Could it be the homeowner was shot because there wasn’t a dog? This is information we need to know!

    • No, open carry and CC are both legal. Open is fair game, pistol and long gun. Denver county has a ban on open carry, but preemption and “no gun” signs have no force of law. Also have a weirdly worded form of castle doc and stand your ground.

      Understand though, Aurora is a Denver suburb, so the same politics slide into it.

  18. I’m gonna reserve judgment until we get more details on this. Did the homeowner present a threat (pointed gun at officer, fired a shot)? Did the officer just see a gun and fire? What was the dispatch call? Did the caller say the homeowner was armed or did the caller just say get here quick they killin errybody up in there?

    • I like to see the body cams not the news report or even police report.

      One of my situations has been on the news. Regardless of them being told what actually happened, they decided to put their own spin on it for entertainment.

      I don’t need the corporate news and police department to interpret the events. I just need unedited, non redacted evidence to look through myself.

  19. So if you are attacked in your own home and are lucky enough to defeat the attacker(s) and save your family then heaven forbid you check outside to see if he has buddies waiting in the getaway car ready to back up the attacker? Would you really want to wait inside the home for the pigs to make entry even if you had disarmed?

  21. Not enough information available????

    I read all the information I need. A cop shot a citizen for using the second amendment and defending himself and his family. The cop will definitely use the magic words that “he was in fear for his life” and therefore shot the citizen legally, and will be absolved of all sin.

    I say enough is enough. Cops in Parkland allowed a killer do his killing in a school, cops in San Jose allowed wild-eyed leftists to violently assault 100 Trump supporters while they watched and did nothing, a few years ago, cops in New York chasing a suspect emptied their guns on a busy street injuring 11 pedestrians without touching the suspect…..there are MANY similar incidents, especially with SWAT and wrong addresses.

    As I said, I have all the information I need.

    To quote MuaDib in Dune: “We have entered the time when all will turn against us and seek our lives”.

  22. Local media says police shot resident, entered house and found dead intruder in bathroom, and then found juvenile seriously wounded by intruder.

  23. If Mr. Dreyka was Officer Dreyka you guys would be calling for his head. My guess is that most of you would have shot the guy with gun.

  24. 2 plans necessary: one for how to not get killed by home invaders while not getting into legal trouble and one for how to not get killed by the police. We’re screwed lol.

  25. These things can go both ways. In Texas, a couple of years ago, a cop on an entry team serving a warrant on the wrong house got gunned down by the homeowner who believed it was a home invasion. Grand Jury declined to indict the homeowner.

  26. This is why cops should have DRONES with missiles. That way they can stay in the precinct house drinking coffee and eating donuts AND they can just wipe out the entire house and kill everyone, especially those pesky toddlers.

  27. The homeowner still had his gun on him for a reason. Maybe that reason was that he was worried there may have been a second perp – maybe it was because he was in a state of shock and just did not think to put down the gun.

    I would not blame him for keeping a gun handy until told by uniformed police to set it down I would not set it down until I saw a friendly with a gun – but what do I know?

  28. If the LEO made entry into the house without announcing his presence then sought out and shot the homeowner his career and very likely years of life in the free world are over. If the LEO responded to a gun battle in progress and was confronted with an unidentified person that pointed or brandished a firearm while exiting the crime scene, then the shooting is tragic but justifiable in that any LEO or citizen would be reasonable in fearing death or serious bodily injury under those circumstances. LEO’s are trained that if they’re still brandishing a firearm following an off duty shooting as responding LEO’s arrive, they’ll likely get shot as a result of that lapse of judgement. Regrettably, all lawfully armed citizens aren’t aware just how dangerous it is to be holding a firearm when responding LEO’s arrive following a crime in progress. Predictably, the usual cop hating losers like Chris Mallory and the Dysfunctional Gunsmith chomp when tossed a chunk of meat they can use as an excuse to voice their irrational and moronic anti LE bias, but thankfully, the F#@K the Police themed TTAG write ups are for the most part gone since the departure of Farago.

    • Why are we assuming the homeowner was shot outside the house? That was an unsupported hypothetical that was presented in the article, and one that should have been left out. In an article describing an incident, it’s good practice to stick to the Who, What, When, and Where. The “Why” should be reserved for an opinion article.

      • Reading comprehension challenged JK? A brief summary of what I wrote and you obviously didn’t read; if the LEO entered the home unannounced and shot the lawfully armed homeowner the LEO is screwed; if the lawfully armed homeowner emerged from the home with gun in hand the LEO had a reasonable fear of death and his split second decision to shoot is tragic but justified.

        • He could have PLANNED to shoot the homeowner for two weeks, and the police union would support him.

          There is literally NOTHING that police unions can’t and won’t defend. The Charles Kinsey shooting is proof positive of it.

        • You’re an uninformed idiot Chris and oblivious to the fact that only a small percentage of LEO’s nationwide belong to a “police union”. Your brand of mindless cop hating is no different than that of Black Lives Matter or any other radical leftist movement.

    • Bullsh*t.

      I see people with guns ALL THE TIME, and I don’t consider them threats: Cops, people at the range, OC’ers, CC’ers who suck at concealing, soldiers, etc. Some of the time, those guns are even drawn! Gasp!

      Granted, we don’t know all the facts, but, as long as it’s not pointed at you, the mere presence of a weapon is NOT a f*cking threat.

  29. The fact that a shootout was still occurring when cops rolled up should have prompted the officer to exercise additional caution before pulling the trigger. Or better yet, get on a bullhorn and tell everyone to come out. This cop was trigger happy trying to be a hero and was eager to use his duty gun in a real situation. Instead he shot the wrong guy. This was not an “active shooter” situation in a public area that calls for the first officers on scene to storm the shooter. This was a shootout occurring on private property. The City of Aurora should cut to the chase and offer the family a massive settlement. And put this officer on desk duty in a dark corner for the rest of his career.

    • Talk about assumptions JK, you just spit out a mind boggling dumb@$$ string of assumptions there Bubba.

        • Don’t know who the f**k is Kathryn Johnson is and what the f**k does that have to do with this tragedy in Aurora.

        • Well, Teddy boy, she was an elderly woman who was murdered by cops who then proceeded to plant drugs in her house to justify their crime.

        • So you couldn’t articulate what that alleged incident had to do with the unfortunate killing of Mr Black, who by the way, was a former IRS Agent (Hey Dumb@$$ea, that’s i a Federal LE0.

  32. Cops always shoot first now and ask questions later. They know full well that the courts will let them get away with murder, literally, so no sweat.

    And they will lie about what happened and every cop who knows better will keep their mouths shut. “To protect and Serve”? Only themselves.

  33. qualified immunity means never having to say you’re sorry for shooting an innocent person!

  34. When I lived in Aurora we’d all have just shrugged and said “Eh, TIA” and moved on.

  35. We don’t have to protect you and we’ll kill you if you try to protect yourself.

  36. Generally, there are three main types of “exigent circumstances” exceptions to the 4th Amendment: to render emergency aid, to engage in hot pursuit, and to prevent destruction of evidence. This situation invokes the emergency aid category, and perhaps the most recent directly applicable U.S. Supreme Court case would be Brigham City v. Stuart, 547 U.S. 398 (2006) (Roberts, C.J.), which held that police officers may enter a home without a warrant when they have an objectively reasonable basis for believing that an occupant is seriously injured or imminently threatened with such injury. Brigham City is derivative of the entire “exigent circumstances” line of cases. For example, in Mincey v. Arizona, 437 U.S. 385 (1978) (Stewart, J.), the Court stated that “the Fourth Amendment does not bar police officers from making warrantless entries and searches when they reasonably believe that a person within is in need of immediate aid,” and that “[t]he need to protect or preserve life or avoid serious injury is justification for what would be otherwise illegal absent an exigency or emergency.”

  37. According to this story, the homeowner was an elderly Vietnam vet. His wife called 911 and described him and the rest of the family. Also told them that the intruder was naked. When the cops arrived, the intruder was dead, she was outside and told them her husband was armed, and described him again. If her story is accurate, one or more cops need to spend a long time in prison.

    https://kdvr.com/2018/07/31/attorney-veteran-killed-by-aurora-police-saved-grandson-from-naked-intruder/

    • If that’s the way it went down, the LEO’s career is over and he will face criminal prosecution. There’s a big difference between reasonable fear and irrational fear. Irrational fear resulting in the death of a homeowner who was protecting his family as any reasonable person would do, only to be gunned down in his own house by the LEO is a line crossed that can’t be justified.

        • Now that we know irrational fear was not a factor, that topic of discussion is irrelevant. As tragic and hurtful as it is to Mr Black’s family and APD, actions by the homeowner as he approached officers resulted in the officer firing 4 shots at Mr Black that resulted in his death. After viewing body cam video Mrs Black publicly called for an end of all the threats of violence directed at the officer who fired the shots and APD. Sadly, the continuation of Farago style anti LE straight up lies and lies by omission persist at TTAG.

    • ‘If her story is accurate, one or more cops need to spend a long time in prison.”

      100%.

      But if not, then 100% of the guys here whining about “cop bootlickers” need to have multiple dates with BLM.

      Also that kink you gave says multiple intruders but no description…

  38. Certainly sucks for the homeowner, but perhaps there is something to learn from this. The homeowner was probably at least a bit dazed and in shock; a firefight inside of a house is going to be loud as hell. He was probably also amped as all get-out; a firefight inside of a house is going to be terrifying and exhilerating. He was also probably pumped up; winning a firefight inside of a house is going to give you a sense of incredible triumph. A firefight in your house with you family there as well will stir up a boatload of other powerful emotionss. It seems likely with all these intense emotions going through him as well as intense biochemical responses happening, there was zero thought going on that the homeowner was kind of just wandering around in a daze, probably with his gun still in his hand. Possibly waving it around. He was no threat, but he wasn’t thinking whatsoever.

    As POTG, we can at least learn from this. Think through possible DGU and what you will do afterwords. Train for it because it is unlikely you will be thinking very clearly after it happens. We practice our draws, we should also practice re-holstering after the threat has been stopped. A nice little training scenario: do some sprints and pushups to get your heartrate up and decrease your fine motor skills a bit, then draw and fire some shots at the target, re-holster and get out your phone and try dialing a number.

  39. More is coming out. “Mr. Black goes and gets his sidearm and shoots the intruder and saves his grandson,” Rathod said. “Mr. Black walks out of the bathroom to see other individuals who had also come in the home. Black’s wife had called the police and ran outside. She specifically told the police what her husband was wearing and there was a naked man attacking her grandson. Mr. Black walks out and is shot by police.”-ABC news
    Sounds like they knew what the homeowner was wearing and that the intruder was NAKED and they still shot the homeowner. I guess they assumed the intruder went to the man’s bedroom, dressed in his clothes and then encountered police armed? As much as I respect the job the police do it sounds like someone was trigger happy and ended an innocent man’s life because of it.

  42. I know we heap a lot of derision of police because of potential difficult decisions regarding a person with a gun at the scene of a DGU. However….it seems the confusion potential should not be completely dismissed as cops gone wild. It was reported that the detailed description of the homeowner and his son were transmitted to the 911 dispatcher. We have no real idea what happened, but should be hyper aware of our risk in a similar situation.

    And maybe cut the cops the teeniest of slack?

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