Constitutional rights are always a balancing act. The right to free speech famously is offset by the threat posed by falsely yelling, “Fire!” in a crowded theater, which could provoke a potentially deadly stampede for the exits. But if gun rights advocates want the public — particularly the non-gun-owning part of the population — to develop some empathy toward their circumstances, they ought to welcome the chance to demonstrate that they can act responsibly. Filing a lawsuit to prevent their customers from becoming better educated on suicide by firearm screams the kind of Second Amendment absolutism that only hurts their cause.
It is unfortunate that groups like Maryland Shall Issue and the National Rifle Association raise a lot of money on the local and national stage by scaring their members silly with sky-is-falling assessments about gun rights. We do not oppose responsible gun ownership, but polls have consistently shown a lot of Marylanders would like to see further restrictions. The rise in gun suicides during the COVID-19 pandemic, and the local gun dealers’ apparent indifference toward them, add fuel to that fire. Gun dealers, along with their customers, must know that with rights come responsibilities.
– Baltimore Sun Editorial Board in Anne Arundel Gun Dealers Balk at Common Sense Safety Pamphlet, Revealing Gun Control Paranoia
Lets see those pro life pamphlets in planned parenthoods. If it saves one life…….
Seriously though, I think the Baltimore Sun shouldn’t use the name or likeness of mass shooters any more like The Daily Wire doesn’t. The APA says that many if not most mass shooters seek fame and they believe those measures could prevent future mass shootings.
If you can compel them to do one thing “in the public good” free speech wise, how long until they are making you put the Kellerman Study in your window?
“Lets see those pro life pamphlets in planned parenthoods.”
You see, those ‘bundles of cells’ aren’t people, they are simply an inconvenience that a woman has a right to be rid of.
(According to those ghouls, anyways. 🙁 )
Some go so far as to label that baby a ‘parasite’. It’s utterly appalling how selfish and cruel those people can be!
Yeah, I saw that Mark Dice man-on-the-street interview, too. Appalling.
they’ve got it wrong. Yes, there IS a parasite involved in every unwanted pregnancy. But it ain’t the innocent “clump of cells” now inhabiting the woman who wants rid of him/her. (yes, that BABY growing inside her is one of only two genders… already). The parasite is the sperm donor the woman allowed to make his deposit. HE goes free, but the new child resulting from his “generosity” must die.
What a twisted world this is. But then, go back and read of some of the perversions described in the Old Testamant and you will soon enough see there is nothing new under the sun. Read, as well, how those societies promioting and even institutionalising such perversions fared.. most times not in the very distant future from the time of the perversions. God IS just. Eventually He will always deal with such blatant violation of what is right, true, and good. This baby murder issue is no exception.
That’s quite an assumption, Tionico, to say the father of the baby is the parasite if the mother wants to have the abortion. There are many would-be fathers who have fought to prevent their pre-born babies from being killed, but can’t legally prevent the mother from doing so.
And that brings up a real rights issue. A man cannot stop or insist on an abortion, but will be forced to pay for the woman’s choice. How about my wallet, my choice.
No one owes anyone an apology for exercising their Second Amendment Right or does anyone have to “promise” to be responsible like a 16 year old who wants to use the family car on a Friday Night. There are laws that come with most everything one does whether it is driving, holding a firearm, holding a bat, knife, etc. Basically if it’s in your hands you own it.
And on the other hand…Perhaps it’s time for an honest, responsible baltimore sun editorial that exposes The Sick Truth About Their Beloved Gun Control…
1) The Second Amendment is one thing.
2) The criminal misuse of firearms, bricks, bats, knives, vehicles, etc. is another thing.
3) History Confirms Gun Control in any shape, matter or form is a racist and nazi based Thin
Thing.
Can I make a suggestion herfe. Abortion is the outer face of an UNWANTED CHILD and UNWANTED children have, statistically speaking, on average very limited prospects in life in just about every parameter you can think of from education to the chance of future criminality and length of life. I suggest you might read FREAKENOMICS as an illustration!.
My own suggestuiion is that all membeers of the PRO LIFE movement guarantee that they will provide a good and proper home for TWO UNWANTED CHILDREN that otherwise might be aborted.
To me it is pretty damn obvious that the majority, both MEN and WOMEN who have to consider abortion when there are so many other options available for birth control in this day and age are provenly IRRESPONSIBLE it therefor follows that the majority will also be IRRESPONSIBLE towards resulting children Mean while we have [supposedly all thos PRO-LIFE persons who ARE responsible and who do show responsibility towards children [or at least one would hope so] are in exactly the right place to provide a responsible home life to the UNWANTED children.
PLEASE SIGN ON THE DOTTED LINE
.
If you feel unable to back pour views with POSITIVE and useful action, rather than the use of violence and bigotry then shut the flock up.
“My own suggestuiion [sic] is that all membeers [sic] of the [UNPROTECTED SEX] movement guarantee that they will provide a good and proper home for [ALL] CHILDREN [they produce] [before they decide to engage in unprotected sex].”
There, FTFY. People are responsible for their own actions. I am no more responsible for the child you create through your own act of sex than I am responsible for repayment of student loans you took out for your gender studies degree.
In any case: who is it, do you think, who are engaged in the majority of adoptions and foster care? The child-hating, nuclear-family-destroying left, or the pro-life, pro-family right?
Now, back to the topic at hand.
The “subject at hand” isn’t much and is very simple;
THE GUVMINT HAS NO PLACE IN A WOMAN’S WOMB.
There is no need to go any further than that on this subject.
That’s strange. I thought the subject at hand was “Baltimore Sun: Compelled Speech is a ‘Common Sense’ Price Gun Sellers Should Pay for the RKBA.”
Chip,
Don’t be confused, it’s simple. GRA is a MinorIQ-level halfwit. Keeping track of the subject at hand is beyond his meager capabilities.
Hi, Chip
Good to see you so active again.
Imbecile subject says WHAT??
BTW, subject, your OWN country’s laws are far more restrictive than most laws in the US in re: abortion. What’s your queen tell you to think about that, subject???
Sod off, swampy.
“The rise in gun suicides during the COVID-19 pandemic, and the local gun dealers’ apparent indifference toward them, add fuel to that fire.”
Huh.
How about, “My body, my choice”, and the last I heard, a whole lot of smart people are warning of global overpopulation, so isn’t it in society’s best interest to encourage people who don’t want to be a burden on others to check themselves out?
Right, obsessed, obviously brain-damaged and mentally-ill demented troll (who deserves to live in New Jersey? 🙂
hey wait a minute …. I live in NJ and its not the total crap hole some of you guys think it is (we are pretty 2A challenged which sucks, but we have better pizza and mobsters than anywhere else)
Everything bagels too.
Seems to me that if abortion at the beginning (or, depending on your interpretation, prior to the beginning) of life is A-OK, then the public shouldn’t be the least bit concerned about suicides either. In fact, Planned Exithood should be opening clinics nationwide to off yourself in a sanitary environment so nobody has to clean up the mess.
some states have now enshrined it into their body of laws that anyone desiring to exit this dirtball can arrange to have proffessional help arranging their departure. Of course, that costs a whole lot more money than the $0.95 for one rond of nine mm ball. And then there is the issue of the mess when someone decides to exit whilst sitting in their livingroom. The clinical way, the mess id planned for, and usually minimal. I suppose the departing “guest” can also arrange to have flowers at their gurney-side before the plunger is pressed. Already laying flat, no leakage, no fuss, no noise.. and no press releases.
Whatever happened to letting God be God? HE is the author of life, whether YOU want that shild in there or not. HE is also the One to decide when that life is over.
This generation, though are far too enamoured of certain things being “good” and others “not good”. Not getting that cush job.nice girl/fancy car/social acceptance is now elevated to a level of trauma that renders a self-induced exit a “good choice”.
Go and read the book of Job. Now go and read Jonah. Two VERY different attitudes, portrayed in those stories.
I hold a 30ft piece of aluminum conduit up in the air whenever I hear thunder.
So far no luck.
possum,
Take your toaster into the bath with you. Lemme know how that works out!
Rights are only a “balancing act” for petty tyrants trying to get one over on you.
And, yelling fire in a theater? Seriously? The “flat-earthers” of the “free speech…but” crowd.
If they were any more two-faced in their arguments we would call them Janus.
The justice who coined that passage would later renounce it for how much it had been taken out of context and abused.
And the “fire in a theater “ thing is a canard too. The Supreme Court ruled against that idea. I don’t remember the details but Bongino has been over it multiple times, someone with proper memory enlighten us please.
And still, yet, again: the “yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded theater” canard. Even that utterance is protected speech. Prohibiting it would constitute unconstitutional prior restraint.
Similarly, *requiring* gun dealers to display a government-sponsored pamphlet – about suicide or any other topic – is an unconstitutional compulsion of speech (and, IANAL, but it also sounds potentially like attempted government inhibition of RKBA, which I presume would also be unconstitutional).
Woah cool it with that logic and liberty talk, you are getting into extremest territory here 😋. It is surreal how both they expect people to believe their tripe as well as a sizeable population actually does.
to Chip
Only someone in need of mental health care would deny the fact that if you yelled fire in a theater and it resulted in injury and death you would not be put in the slammer on a variety of charges faster than a cat can scratch his ass. Not to mentions the civil law suites that would bankrupt you for life. So go ahead Chip lets see you yell fire in your local theater some time. Of course you won’t because the old adage is simply “Believe in what a politician does not in what he says”.
I might also give a real life example of one young 30 year old that was in charge of a drug company that raised its prices 700%. The young man rightly stated that he did not do anything the other drug companies had not already done to one degree or another but his insolent attitude when he was summoned to a Congressional hearing resulted in them “finding ways” to put him in prison and that is where he went, again faster than a cat could scratch his ass. The Government will get you if they want to so you can shove your Constitution where the sun doesn’t shine, that is reality like it or not.
And yet these same tyrants are who you wish to have the right of who can and cannot own a firearm. You hate on the .gov on one hand and then turn around and give them the power to run your life on the other.
Mental illness runs deeply in you.
If it wasn’t for double standards he wouldn’t have any.
Forgot to add he is a master of doublethink where the mind can old diametrically opposite beliefs simultaneously.
…if…and…
It seems that, just as you struggle to differentiate between voluntarily and compelled, you also struggle to differentiate between prior restraint and consequence of action.
The State would be violating constitutionally protected rights to prohibit the utterance of “Fire!” in a crowded theater. This is the concept of prior restraint.
The State cannot take action against the mere utterance of “Fire!” in a crowded theater, absent some harm resulting from that utterance. It is the harm resulting from the utterance against which the State can act. The utterance itself must be allowed first to take place, the utterance itself must first actually take place, and the utterance itself must be proven to be the direct cause of the harm.
Only then can the State act against that utterance.
But that’s probably far too advanced. Let me know when you figure out the difference between voluntary and compelled speech.
To Chip
quote———————The utterance itself must be allowed first to take place, the utterance itself must first actually take place, and the utterance itself must be proven to be the direct cause of the harm.—————-quote
You gobbledygook is laughable. That is precisely why we have laws to prevent people from being harmed. You are playing games with semantics only proves you refuse to admit when you have been proven very wrong. See a shrink, only a nut case would think anyone would take your rant seriously.
Again I challenge you to yell fire in a theater. I want to be there when they arrest you and throw you in the slammer. It will be great entertainment while you scream about your non existent Constitutional Rights. The State rules and you obey “or else”. Any sane person can understand this.
You’re welcome to continue to beclown yourself, of course. I get that doing so is sort of your schtick. However, should you decide to stop violating the First Rule of Holes, I strongly recommend you read Brandenburg v Ohio, which directly and explicitly overturns any precedent established from Holmes’ “fire in a crowded theater” dicta in Schenck.
dacian, you are arguing way above your grade again. Go back to primary colors and simple arithmetic, until you have those things down pat.
Yell “Water, Water, Water.”
Then when someone ask you what you need the water for ,”The FCKING FIRE ! ! !”
dacian the stupid,
Since you are obviously completely ignorant of Constitutional law in re: free speech, let me put you some knowledge. Prohibiting, prior to utterance, ANY statement is a violation of free speech, commonly known as “prior restraint”, and almost guaranteed to be struck down by SCOTUS. Holding people LIABLE for the consequences of their speech is both permissible, and proper. And, BTW, the whole “can’t yell ‘fire’ in a crowded theater”???? That was dicta (I know you have no idea what that is, but go look it up . . . you could use a little education) in an old, discredited, and now OVERTURNED SCOTUS ruling.
WORSE than prior restraint is “compelled” speech – again, almost always struck down by SCOTUS. You would REQUIRE FFLs to subject their business and clients to the compelled speech of putting questionable government literature, with even MORE questionable “statistics” prominently on display?? Why, you’re just the perfect little fascist, aren’t you, dacian the stupid?
You truly are dumber than Balaam’s off ass, you pathetic @$$clown. Go back to your circle jerk, before you hurt yourself.
I believe that Leftist newspapers like the Baltimore Sun should having a warning phamplet included in each newspaper that warns the reader that continued reading of Leftist articles in said paper may lead to someone to becoming an Anti-American Leftist tyrant that supports dangerous fascist ideas and lead to millions of deaths (like all tyranies do).
Something tells me my “common sense solution” will not be acceptable to the Baltimore Sun.
Any controlled or group think is NOT in the best interest of any society! Too many examples to list here!!
Hard to believe Stephen Hunter once wrote for that paper.
From the article:
“It strikes us as roughly the equivalent of requiring employers to warn workers about safety hazards.”
No, idiots. The rough equivalent would be for employers to be required to warn their customers about suicide.
Do we require the hardware store owner to counsel everyone who buys rope about the risks of auto-erotic asphyxiation? If it saves just one life…
‘Do we require the hardware store owner to counsel everyone who buys rope about the risks of auto-erotic asphyxiation?’
Awesome.
“‘Do we require the hardware store owner to counsel everyone who buys rope about the risks of auto-erotic asphyxiation?’”
Don’t give ’em any ideas, Gov.
Cripes…
A new hobby for lil’d and his circle-jerk companions. Choke and Stroke.
Southern,
What makes you think it would be a NEW hobby??? An overdose of erotic asphyxiation, resulting in lack of oxygen to the brain, would help explain their posts. Seems like they’ve been doing it for years.
One could argue the warning signs on objects are suicide instructions. All these skull and crossbones warnings and stick figures drowning in buckets can help you find the best or a preferred way to get the job done.
The highest suicide rate per profession is dentistry. Maybe dental schools should be forced to hand out this pamphlet.
RIGHT……. Because pandemic suicides were the GUNS’ fault.
No, what they are saying is that a gun is the preferred method, and therefore, they believe, that a warning of some sort should be given at the time of purchase. Like all the signs posted in gun stores all over the State of California. (Actually, I can’t remember what any of them say, but they are all “safety related.” Wait, hold that thought–it is like the Proposition 65 warning in all gun stores and on boxes of guns and ammo that the contents may expose your to chemicals known to cause cancer. Compelled speech? As far as I know, no one has challenged the required warning (which applies to a bunch of things besides guns stuff). Is a suicide warning any different than the warnings Pharm Co.s are required to put on the label/insert for prescription drugs? I don’t think so. It is not compelled speech,m it is simply posting government speech, not your own, as a business regulation, a circumstance that does not inhibit free speech rights.
‘…chemicals known to cause cancer…’
I think that’s ‘known to the state of California to cause cancer.’ We see those labels here in Iowa from time to time. We just dismiss them because we’re well aware here that the ‘state of California’ is a moron.
“You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater” trope came from none other than Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes. Heused it in an opinion in order to…. Justify the suppression of political speech he didn’t like (and being metaphorical had nothing to do with show houses or the threat of fire, but using words to incite panic). Schneck vs the United States 1919; the appellant was seeking to overturn a conviction for handing out pamphlets opposing the draft during WW I.
Whenever someone pulls this phrase on you, give them some history and tell them to STFU.
So many bad, bad precedents set during the United State’s involvement in the Great War – we elected one of, if not THE, most virulently racist presidents of the 20th century, made government intrusion into the lives of everyday Americans ‘patriotic’, locked up political opponents to the reigning party on the most tenuous of reasons, created the modern template for government abuse of propaganda, gave the Left their most cherished worldview of “going to war” on whatever behavior/issue they dislike, the list goes on and on…would all of Western Europe speaking German have really been that bad? Yeah, probably, but if only we’d kept our nose out of “Continental entanglements” I think our history would’ve progressed much closer to the Founders’ vision than it did. We could’ve helped whup the Kaiser without near as many unintended consequences…
Oh, J. Bryan, don’t overlook the fact that we did most or all of that in the Civil War, too. I trace the ascension of the “state” as a controlling power to Lincoln’s administration. You can validly argue that Lincoln had little CHOICE in the matter – THAT was actually an “existential crisis” – but no one with any historical knowledge arguing in good faith can deny that Lincoln FAR exceeded his Constitutional boundaries, and we are paying for it to this day.
If I could push a reset button to get us back to 1791, deal with the slavery issue and women’s rights, and start over again, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Seeing the perversion the Left has made of it, I might be inclined to side with the opponents of the BoR, or else make the list a WHOLE lot longer than 10 amendments (two of which get regularly ignored).
As fentanyl becomes more common, it will replace guns as the favored means of suicide. Cheaper, less messy, no 4473 to fill out, no waiting, no background check…just give it time.
But..we do need to require dope dealers to provide suicide pamphlets to their customers.
The dealers and their customers should fill out the form 4473-D ( d for drugs ). Also pass a background check and receive competent drug usage training.
Good idea, except D should be for “dope.” As in, “If you use this, the only dope you’ll be smoking is you.”
FIFY
The U.S. recorded an estimated 107,622 drug overdose deaths last year, according to provisional data released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Yet we do not hear the progressives calling for laws to make drugs more illegal (if it saves just one life…) rather they are pushing laws to decriminalize drugs. Almost seems they have an agenda that has nothing to do with saving lives.
Of which 75,000+ were due to fentanyl, a product that has become increasingly used to contaminate other drugs in order to boost the high (or replace the high that comes from excessive dilution). Anyone who snorts coke these days is gambling with their lives absent prior testing of the :product” for presence of fentanyl. Fentanly is a lot cheaper to produce than cocaine, and so it is the drug of choice when cutting (diluting) coke for sale. It is manufactured in Mexico from raw materials imported from China. To date, China has been asked but shown no great interest in attempting to stop the flow of raw materials–probably because they hate us.
money not hate.
I think you mean heroin, not cocaine – they’re opposites. Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid, and mixing ANY opioid with coke is called a speedball, and extremely dangerous (remember John Belushi?). Anyway, when the cut whatever drug with fentanyl, they often use a regular blender, like you’d make a milkshake with. Not exactly clinical. So when they’re pressing pills or filling little bags or however they’re prepping the drugs to distribute, there is hardly an even disbursement of the fentanyl. One pill might have none, and another has a lethal dose (which isn’t much at all).
I don’t understand how these dealers are risking the lives of their customers as well as a first-degree murder charge. I guess the honorable profession of drug pusher has gone downhill in recent years.
“We do not oppose responsible gun ownership …”
LOOK AT THE GASLIGHT!
Another article I see no purpose for being here or anywhere else. LET THEM EAT CAKE AND LEAVE … if they don’t like gun owners or guns they can go live in another country. All they need to do is renounce their US citizenship and when they leave for wherever they’re going they need to surrender their US passports to immigration on their way out. We sure as Hell won’t miss them one damn bit.
GRA,
You need to know your enemy. If you don’t otherwise read the nonsense that the Leftist/fascists spout, you can’t prepare yourself for the next battle. Sure, their arguments are stupid, ahistorical, and rely (when they bother to use them) on doctored statistics, but knowing where they are headed allows you to prepare you intellectual ambush.
And, you always have the option not to read the article, eh?
Thanks for the constructive criticism but I just dealt with them the exact way I wanted. More than a few people read those comments and this site isn’t the only site I’ve left that statement. Unfortunately it takes a while for even the most simplest of strategies and remedies to sink in. But that is why I’m always a patient strategist.
GRA,
Good on you, I guess. Does your TV have an on/off switch? Do you have the power to scroll past an article you don’t approve of? Can you elect to not buy a newspaper or magazine, or not read the articles you don’t like? If the answer is “yes”, then you’ve got nothing to b***h about, do you?
There is so little ‘common sense’ put to any of this stuff that it’s barely noticeable.
We have so-called leaders (elected and unelected) telling us they want responsible gun ownership while they stand in the way of that very type of responsibility. They are telling us they want groups like the NRA to stop ‘scaring’ people when it is actually leftist Democrats that have been instilling fear in everyone (especially with Covid and Trump). These people will focus on the gun used in suicides while absolutely refusing to even acknowledge the REASON for the suicide in the first place.
It’s the same ole song and dance and it’s pathetic.
I’ll “agree” to warning gat buyer’s about killing themselves when Dims & satan worshipers warn pregnant people they are murdering a real human baby when they kill their child…never give an inch.
Yes and I’m tired of them being so miserable at not being able to solve their long-perceived non-problems. For this reason I’ve begun simply encouraging them all to immigrate to other countries such as those in the Commonwealth and elsewhere that don’t really believe in private ownership of firearms. This includes one or more of the closet-leftists/liberals whom write for this site.
Every firearm I’ve ever bought from a dealer included a User Manual, the first few pages of which was all about Safety. Adding another layer on that is a waste of time and money, and only serves a political purpose.
AND HERE IS THE PART OF THE ARTICLE THAT T TAG DID NOT PRINT FOR OBVIOUS REASONS. HERE IS THE REST OF THE ARTICLE AND IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THE T TAG PARTY LINE.
And yet before the requirement could go fully into effect last month, the ordinance was challenged in U.S. District Court by the gun rights group Maryland Shall Issue and four gun dealers: Field Traders and Pasadena Arms, both of Pasadena; Cindy’s Hot Shots of Glen Burnie; and Worth-A-Shot of Millersville. Their argument is that the required brochure is a violation of their First Amendment rights as “compelled speech” (there is a penalty to dealers who do not provide it to customers). Really? It strikes us as roughly the equivalent of requiring employers to warn workers about safety hazards, and seems no greater a burden than providing a printed receipt. It’s certainly far less onerous than the health warnings required on each and every pack of cigarettes sold in the United States.
But what’s especially galling here is that the Anne Arundel pamphlet was developed in cooperation with the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the firearms trade association. The group gave it their blessing, and there are other gun dealers across the country who are voluntarily distributing similar literature. It’s common sense.
Addendum:
This whole outrageous action by the gun dealers just proves how necessary when it comes to gun control that it is the Federal Government that must step in and or pass gun laws, even common sense gun laws.
Most civilized nations require extensive firearms training before you can get a permit to buy a deadly weapon and they also require safe storage of deadly weapons in the home and in gun stores. Of course when a person suffers from advanced paranoia even the most simple common sense laws are beyond his comprehension.
Surely, even you can understand the difference – and the implication for constitutionally protected rights – between voluntarily distributing a pamphlet and being compelled by the government to distribute that pamphlet.
By the way, required firearms training – extensive or otherwise – would have a statistically negligible impact on overall firearm-related deaths. Murderers don’t care about safety and neither do those committed to suicide.
No, he can’t understand the difference, or at least for the purpose of trolling pretends not to. This is part of the reason Fudds are dangerous to liberty: “I only need my 30-30 to hunt with so I don’t need nothing else.” is then used to pretend rifles are only for deer hunting, and you then get id10ts like senile old Joe Biden talking about deer in kevlar vests.
Chip
quote————-By the way, required firearms training – extensive or otherwise – would have a statistically negligible impact on overall firearm-related deaths.————quote
Chip every demented post you make digs you a deeper hole in the pit of insanity.
Chip you really are a prime nut case. Any sane person knows that firearms training has for years even been part of the NRA programs. They did it and other organizations have had training programs because training saves the lives of people who carry and use guns everyday.
You really went way over the top this time. Chip do you even realize sane people are shaking their heads in disbelief after reading your rant that training does not save lives. Hey, maybe you will rant next that teenagers should just be put behind the wheel of a car and given a license and the keys to the car and told to survive if they can?
And how long does it take to “train” someone to use firearms?
As a qualified instructor I can have someone from zero to hitting a target consistently with long arms in about 30 minutes. And that includes safety instruction.
Reading comprehension escapes you, doesn’t it? *
I didn’t say that “training doesn’t save lives.” I said that *required* training has negligible impact on firearms-related deaths. For evidence: see CDC mortality data, state by state.
* Yes, that question is rhetorical. I know that you intentionally misquoted me, to demolish astraw man.
The purpose of training programs is to reduce accidental firearms injuries. It has no purpose in reducing suicides or murders. So much is obvious that it should not have been necessary to say it.
Dacian the younger,
Your great at arguing what you wish someone said instead of what they said.
You really slayed that strawman. Congratulations, moron.
to Chip
quote—————I didn’t say that “training doesn’t save lives.” I said that *required* training has negligible impact on firearms-related deaths.———quote
Your pathetic attempt to save face is laughable.
You denied that it was against the law to shout fire in a theater. It is against the law and you would be arrested period.
You continue to deny that mandatory training would have no effect on gun deaths. How stupid can you get???????
Against the law? [Citation Needed] You’re welcome to cite any state statute, anywhere, that makes the mere utterance of “Fire!” in a crowded theater unlawful. I’ll wait.
Mandatory training has no effect on gun deaths. You’re welcome to cite empirical evidence otherwise, but I’ve seen the data (CDC mortality data, state by state), so I know you can’t.
To Chip
Demented nut cases like Chip will rant that Constitutional rights are unlimited. They are not and were never meant to be.
Again Chip knows damn well he would be thrown in the slammer if he yelled fire in a theater but he continues to rant that his free speech rights are unlimited even when they would cause death and harm to people. Only a psycho would believe such nonsense.
No Constitutional right is unlimited that is why you cannot build your own atomic bomb or make mustard gas to use on your neighbors cat because you saw the cat sitting on your car. Chip being mentally ill will argue and rant otherwise.
The ATF needs to pay Chip a visit as he is not mentally balanced and should not be allowed to own deadly weapons.
So, I take it that you admit that you cannot, in fact, cite a single, state statute that criminalizes shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theater?
Duly noted.
(Also: still waiting for that cited evidence that mandatory safety training has an impact on firearm-related deaths.)
To chip
NOW LETS SEE YOU LIE YOUR WAY OUT OF THIS ONE.
Firearm safety training provides gun owners with the proper education on how to handle, use, store, and transport guns, and all gun owners should be required to complete safety training prior to buying one. In a self-defense experiment involving a firearm simulator, participants with lower levels of firearm training and experience performed worse than those with higher levels of training. Many accidentally “shot” innocent bystanders or unarmed people. Firearm safety training is also crucial for gun owners who desire to carry their guns in public. In fact, law enforcement experts, firearm trainers, and military personnel overwhelmingly agree that people who carry concealed weapons in public should take firearm training, including live-fire training.
You really fell into the out house head first on this one.
That’s a long-winded way to say that a) you don’t understand the definition of “mandatory”, and b) you have no data to support your claim that mandatory safety training has any impact on firearm-related deaths.
Since you continue to ignore the First Rule of Holes, I’ll repeat: mandatory safety training has no impact on firearm-related deaths.
to chip
quote—————–Since you continue to ignore the First Rule of Holes, I’ll repeat: mandatory safety training has no impact on firearm-related deaths.———–quote
I just gave you the results of not only a study and the statements of people who are in charge of training. Since you are an arrogant nut case you reject everything that does not fit your warped political agenda. You can scream all you want that you are not going to believe science like most right wing nut cases do but that does not change the truth or reality. You need to be put under the care of a psychiatrist.
I repeat once more only a nut case would claim training does not save lives otherwise we would not only have no firearms safety training but no training for young people before they get a drivers license or no training for truck drivers who must learn to safely handle 18 wheelers or training for paramedics or doctors. The list is endless. Of course you cannot fathom any of this because you are definitely not right in the head.
You only succeeded in making a complete fool and complete and total ass of yourself on this forum. Sane people are shaking their heads after reading your dribble and clap trap trying to practice one up man ship which this time was carried to absurd levels.
to Chip
More hard data proving safety training saves lives
https://apnews.com/article/accidents-ar-state-wire-ia-state-wire-wa-state-wire-iowa-009ac6cf0a174a58d88d9d01308aedd6
Chip,
“Surely, even you can understand the difference . . . “. Why would you give that uneducated, ignorant, @$$clown that much credit?? dacian the stupid is so completely deluded, he still worships Karl Marx. Just accept the fact that ANY post from dacian the stupid is going to be illiterate, ahistorical, deluded nitwitticism, and either ignore it, or mock him mercilessly. Trying to have a “reasoned” discussion with dacian the stupid is like trying to mudwrestle a pig – you both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it. I prefer mocking him, and belittling his idiocy.
Use the correct term: “compelled speech.”
“The plaintiffs and the county agree it’s compelled speech, but they disagree over whether it’s allowed under the First Amendment.”
““They know better,” said Mark Pennak, the president of the group Maryland Shall Issue, an advocacy group for gun rights. “The Supreme Court has held that citizens have a right to simply not to speak at all. Dealers have a right to simply be silent on this, but they’re compelled upon pain of substantial fines to say what the county wants them to say. Not only display it on their counters or elsewhere in the store, but to distribute it with each and every sale of a firearm or ammunition. …
“For now, the county is not enforcing the law until there’s an outcome to the case. The plaintiffs are asking the judge for summary judgment and to strike the law down before it goes to trial.”
Definition of “compelled speech:”
The compelled speech doctrine sets out the principle that the government cannot force an individual or group to support certain expression. Thus, the First Amendment not only limits the government from punishing a person for his speech, it also prevents the government from punishing a person for refusing to articulate, advocate, or adhere to the government’s approved messages.
Now, square that circle.
to Klingon
quote————-Now, square that circle.———quote
The courts do not obey the Constitution simply because they do not have to. They rule the way “they feel” things should be. In this case commons sense will tell them to uphold the law requiring the distribution of safety warnings. Sane people know it will save lives. And yes people do read warning labels on items, just ask the call centers how many customers often call them after reading warning labels on their consumer items and often ask them for additional information.
dacien–
And here I thought that the “alternate universe” theory was just a contrivance employed by science-fiction writers.
“In this case commons [sic] sense will tell them to uphold the law requiring the distribution of safety warnings.”
I have a different perspective on the American legal system.
But there’s that “alternate universe” thing again …
Just raging against the .gov a little upthread and now you’re the .gov champion.
You’re too mentally ill to be trusted with a key board. Somebody from the .gov should exercise some common sense and shut you down.
Hey, dacian the stupid,
Only someone as dimwitted and uneducated and brainwashed as you could be unaware of the “risk” of suicide. EVERY adult in the U.S. has been subjected to an endless stream of handwringing and editorializing about the “evils” of suicide. Only complete, non-functioning morons (which category definitely includes you) are unaware that if you eat a bullet, you die.
Just like the fact that EVERY adult in the U.S. is aware that smoking is a risk factor for many diseases, including heart disease, lung cancer, stroke, COPD, etc. I DARE you to document ONE case where the warnings on tobacco packages stopped someone from smoking.
The fact that NSSF had editorial input into an anti-suicide pamphlet means . . . they were (foolishly and uselessly) wasting their efforts on a lost cause – put the effort into increased mental health resources. I GUARANTEE you they didn’t agree to making the pamphlets mandatory, you pathetic, fascist @$$clown.
Go micturate up a cable, you worthless Leftist/fascist tool
Hey Lamp —
It looks that this effort between the NSSA and AFSP is a worthy program, a cooperative effort between the gun industry and the mental health professional community to contribute towards the reduction of suicide by firearm.
A large component of the effort appears to have been the result of shocking incidents of suicide at gun ranges and retailers not long ago.
Regardless, there is no indication that NSAA or AFSP supports compelling the distribution of this brochure (toolkit) as the Anne Arundel County Council has (illegally) legislated.
http://www.nssf.org/safety/suicide-prevention/
alien,
And that was exactly my point. While I think the GOAL of NSSF was laudable (to reduce suicides), I tend to believe it is unlikely to be effective – a person so deep in depression or mental instability to SERIOUSLY consider suicide is unlikely to stop to read a pamphlet. Getting them counseling would probably be more effective.
But my REAL point was that the NSSF was NOT advocating compelled speech by FFLs, nor would they. I have no objection to the pamphlets, and if people want to make them widely available, they should feel free, and more power to them. What I am objecting to is not just “compelled speech” (which is bad enough), but compelled GOVERNMENT speech. Like unto our new “Ministry of Truth”.
Lamp —
” … a person so deep in depression or mental instability to SERIOUSLY consider suicide is unlikely to stop to read a pamphlet. Getting them counseling would probably be more effective.”
Speaking as one who has been there — I agree totally.
alien,
“Speaking as one who has been there . . . ” Sorry to hear that, alien, but glad you’re still with us. Keep up the good fight.
Still ignoring the key adjective, “mandatory”, I see. Keep digging. It’s cute. Boring, but cute.
The gun grabbers often cite “polls” to back their assertions but they never actually tell tell us the source of their information. Why is that? I’ve never been polled by anyone asking me about 2A issues. Besides the Bloomberg backed hoplophobes, who actually polls mainstream America concerning the 2A? Anyone? Anyone credible without an axe to grind?
To be fair, Bucephalus, if a “pollster” called you to “poll” you about the 2A, would you answer their questions? I wouldn’t (haven’t responded to ANY pollster since I took my college Statistics class, and learned how ridiculous polls actually are), and I suspect most gun owners are similar. None of anyone else’s damned business to know about my guns OR my opinions, unless I choose to tell them.
I agree the polls are stupid, result-oriented, and usually wrong, but the fact that most conservatives don’t respond to political polls, and most gun owners don’t respond to 2A polls, is just a fact of life.
The “mainstream” media has destroyed its own credibility; pollsters have done much the same. IF we could ever have a legitimate, non-partisan polling source, people might change that reaction (over time, and after the pollsters have PROVEN themselves) . . . yeah, SMOD will happen, first.
Lamp has a good point here. Polls are often driven by negatives and passion, and a lot more people are compelled to complain about something than to laud it. Like searching online forums when considering an auto purchase. Most of what you will see will be negative complaints, because the folks with a positive report, for the most part, are happily living out their lives without thinking, “Hmm, I ought to tell the world how nice this car is.” The data is often skewed.
hawkeye,
That, too. And one of the pollsters’ favorite tricks is to “game” the poll by positing questions in a form designed to use the “negative” reactions to control the outcome to achieve their preferred result. A VERY valid point, and thank you for pointing it out.
My larger point was that I don’t think most conservatives/libertarians respond to polls, PERIOD. I don’t, no matter what “side” I think they’re on . . . it’s simply none of their damn business, and I don’t trust how they would use the information if I answered honestly.
Guys —
If you receive and answer a phone poll on one subject, that puts you on a list to receive more polling calls. I made the mistake of answering one phone poll on political issues that was related to the industry in which I worked. Within two weeks, I had received calls for 5 additional surveys from various outfits, on differing subjects. When I would ask up front, “Who is conducting/paying for this poll?” and receive no answer or was told that it was a lefty organization, I hung up immediately.
“I don’t, no matter what…”
I’m with you on the larger point too. I once received an invitation to become a Nielson ratings family. Pfft, tore it up and threw it away. During the runup to our recent primary election, my wife would answer the phone with her ametralladora Spanish if we didn’t recognize the number. Didn’t stop others from calling, but a bunch of them got an earful of syllables. I asked her once, what she would do if the caller answered back in Spanish if we’d be willing to donate to Placeholder Biden’s efforts, and she picked up the skillet. Didn’t know if it was for me, or the hypothetical caller, or Placeholder Biden, so I changed the subject.
“The right to free speech famously is offset by the threat posed by falsely yelling, “Fire!” in a crowded theater, which could provoke a potentially deadly stampede for the exits. ”
In actuality, if it was offset by anything that could be equated to similar 2A restrictions, everyone in a theater would have to wear a ball gag that was locked to their face, only being unlocked to scream “fire” if there was actual danger.
Big difference between making a harmful action (be it via word or tool) illegal, and removing the ability to commit that action beforehand. But we wouldn’t expect the leftists to be able to have an honest correlation when the goal is anything but safety when it comes to guns.
‘……….National Rifle Association raise a lot of money on the local and national stage by scaring their members silly with sky-is-falling assessments about gun rights…………’
Just received a membership renewal letter from the NRA yesterday.
The business envelope has ‘NOTICE OF GUN CONFISCATION’ in HUGE lettering across the front. 🙄
Below that scare banner it says ‘Official notice to named addressee’.
The NRA has become pathetic.
Yes. I quit the NRA years ago. But guess what. joe burden would love to take your guns away.
I quit renewing my (and both sons) memberships around five years ago, yet STILL get renewal notices every few weeks.
I was ready to purchase lifetime memberships before everything came to light.
I don’t need the NRA ‘weatherman’ to tell me which way the wind is blowing in Washington.
Polls consistently show Marylanders want more restrictions, by the stats from Baltimore all the ones they already have don’t work to well.
You get what you voted for.
Maryland is controlled by the city of Baltimore. Because of the population distribution throughout the state. There are simply far more people in Baltimore than outside of Baltimore. It has been that way for decades now. Similar to the situation in Illinois where Chicago basically runs the rest of the state. Simply because of the City’s population versus the rest of the state.
Don’t forget to mention the Gerrymandering that negates the more Conservative/Rural regions of the State. Just look at the District that Jaime Raskin “represents”, it looks like a rorschach image on acid, sweeping from Uber-Liberal Montgomery Co coursing up thru thoroughly Conservative Carroll into “Purple” Frederick. Leave the Metropolitan centers of the State and you will find yourself in strong 2A territory,,,, it’s just that demographics, population numbers, and Political Boundaries are working against us.
Our great President Joseph Robinett Biden🙏 doesn’t like gunms and neither should we.
C’mon, possum man, that just ain’t true!
Biden loves himself some shotgunm to blast through a front door now and then.
possum,
Does that mean if have to paw little girls and sniff their hair, too? I’ll pass, thanks.
Put down the candy, and step away from the children.
But . . . but . . . Senile Joe does it!! Why can’t I??? He’s my role model! Perhaps I should consider a lobotomy, so I can be more like him!!
We do not oppose responsible gun ownership, but polls have consistently shown a lot of Marylanders would like to see further restrictions.
What polls specifically? What is a lot of Marylanders?10? 100? Half the population?
And what is the bias of the group surveyed?
Descriptive, yet vague. They are saying “you must believe us but don’t press us for details”.
Baltimore is vastly different from say…Cumberland…two different worlds…
“Baltimore is vastly different from say…Cumberland…two different worlds…”
All that matters is the success of the Leftists at messaging that targets traditional American values for destruction. Being a rural minority provides no protection.
“LampofDiogenes”
“Good on you, I guess. Does your TV have an on/off switch? Do you have the power to scroll past an article you don’t approve of? Can you elect to not buy a newspaper or magazine, or not read the articles you don’t like? If the answer is “yes”, then you’ve got nothing to b***h about, do you?”
No but then again I’m not the one bitching but you are obviously. Hilarious.
Well, that’s a “take”, I guess. Not a good one, mind you, but it’s a “take”. You started your thread by bemoaning the “state” of this site for including an article you didn’t like/agree with. Where I come from, child, that’s called “bitching”. Just a heads up.
In returning the courtesy of a heads-up; you seem to conveniently forget I really don’t give a shit where you’re from nor who or what you call whatever. Same applies to about 99.999999% of the rest of the world. I’m a firm believer in being honest while being fair.
“I’m a firm believer in being honest while being fair.”
Wow, that means you’re 0 for 2. One more strike and you’re out. And, in the spirit of giving, I don’t really give a shit whether you like the articles here, or not. If I don’t like one I don’t read it. You might try that, or is that just too easy?
Nah, feel free to bitch all you want . . . whatever floats your boat, chief. But don’t bother to lie about it.
@Southern Cross
“Forgot to add he is a master of doublethink where the mind can old diametrically opposite beliefs simultaneously.”
Depends on your understanding of “double minded”. “Yes, for me, and not for you” is double mindedness”. Knowing people who should never be in the same city as a firearm, while being a 2A absolutist is not. The latter is simply acknowledging reality, while willing to run the risks 2A absolutism presents, is not.
Trash paper.
That’s why I say we have no hope for change except by force. This country has been taken over by corrupt politicians for over 45 years. Everyone one that in government from the past 45 years has baggage. They all need to be put on trial and investigated.i do home work ….. 𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐤𝐬𝐜𝐥𝐢𝐜𝐤.𝐜𝐨𝐦
@Erik Weisz
“I don’t understand how these dealers are risking the lives of their customers….”
There is an endless supply of buyers, with more in the pipeline. Or, as attributed to the late Mr. P.T. Barnum, “There’s a sucker born every minute.”
I’d want to express my gratitude for this fantastic read!! Everything about it appeals to me. I’ve got you bookmarking your site so you can keep up with what you’re doing.
fireboy and watergirl
LampOfDiogenes May 13, 2022 At 10:30
“ Nah, feel free to bitch all you want . . . whatever floats your boat, chief. But don’t bother to lie about it.”
“Wow, that means you’re 0 for 2.”
I never lie about anything. Never have to especially when I don’t give a shit what somebody thinks or likes or not. Hell that should be easy enough for you to figure out. Now you’re 0 and 2; BY ALL MEANS … GO FIRST.
I like all the articles here as they front a lot of people out. I just wonder about the writers sometimes.
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