In January 2016, on the first day of the partial restoration of open carry rights in Texas, I stood in front of the Benbrook Police Station, looking at the recently placed 30.06 and 30.07 signs . . .
I noticed that the signs are likely not enforceable in a court of law; they were not of the required dimensions. But police, like fire in the quote attributed to President Washington, are “dangerous servants and a fearful master. ” I tread lightly around police, just as I do around high explosives or high-powered machinery. All are extremely useful. All require proper care, caution, respect, and effective safeguards.
A couple of days later, sans Glock and holster, I entered the department to determine the origin of the signs, and the reasons for their obviously recent emplacement. I talked to an agreeable sergeant. The public relations officer had just retired. The sergeant very kindly gave me the police chief’s email, suggesting that such policies were above his pay grade. I contacted Chief James Mills, and asked him who made the decision to put up the signs, and what was the purpose and expected benefit?
Chief Mills was kind enough to reply. He said that the foyer of the police office is also the waiting area for the Municipal Court. Here’s the paragraph about his decision to post the “gun free zone” signs:
It was my decision to post the 30.06 and 30.07 signs. There was nothing controversial about the decision, as state law already prohibited the carrying of firearms onto this premises. The signs were simply a measure to ensure license holders are aware they are entering the premises of a government court. Of course, the desired benefit would be compliance with state law. I hope this helps with your article. Thank you for your kind words about Sgt. Gray. I will make sure to pass it along.
James Mills, Chief of Police
Benbrook Police Department
1080 Mercedes Benbrook, Texas 76126
I remain skeptical of Chief Mills’s decision. I see nothing in state law that requires him to post the signs, nor do I see any benefit, as I don’t see any state law being broken by the presence of legally armed citizens in the police foyer. Before the open carry law, no 30.06 sign was posted. It appears that the Attorney General of Texas, Ken Paxton, agrees with me. From abajournal.com:
Rather than simply the area bounded by the courthouse walls, Paxton’s view of what premises include means “that people with a license to carry should be able to go into [the] courthouse in non-essential areas,” Shannon Edmonds, who serves as director of governmental relations at the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, told the station. “I think most counties don’t read the law that way, but some of them are taking steps to comply with the opinion, even if they don’t agree with it, because they don’t want to get sued.”
In September, the state legislature authorized the AG to sue government entities that ban firearms improperly in their buildings, and it appears from Paxton’s views on the definition of courthouse premises that they could potentially be subjects of enforcement, the article explains. The attorney general’s homepage has a prominent link for citizens to report government entities which may be unlawfully prohibiting concealed firearms.
I haven’t seen the Benbrook police department listed among those who have had complaints filed against them with AG Paxton, at least not yet. But I will not be surprised if I find them on such a list, eventually.
©2016 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included.
what the heck? there is nothing in benbrook worth the trip. well, the lake might be attractive, but not in february.
I tread lightly around police, just as I do around high explosives or high-powered machinery. All are extremely useful. All require proper care, caution, respect, and effective safeguards.
Police are extremely useful?
Damn, I want some of what you’re smoking.
I haven’t seen the Benbrook police department listed among those who have had complaints filed against them with AG Paxton, at least not yet. But I will not be surprised if I find them on such a list, eventually.
I will not be surprised them to attain that status tomorrow morning
Police are useful for tracking down people who commit crimes.
Maybe, if those criminals happen to be speeding.
“I haven’t seen the Benbrook police department listed among those who have had complaints filed against them with AG Paxton, at least not yet. But I will not be surprised if I find them on such a list, eventually.”
What are you waiting for?
The man who said “I tread lightly around police” probably doesn’t want the blowback (aka shitstorm) from filing an official complaint against them.
Does the chief have personal liability for improper signs?
C’mon Dirk, you should know by now most coppers consider themselves immune from “improper”; you know – club membership as it were overriding all that needless red tape.
The Chief is full of it. If it’s a city building, and not a functioning court room, there is no “built-in” restriction.
Might be time to try out the filing of a lawsuit for cities who illegally post. I thought that was passed in the last session.
boys and girls, you’re in texas, now. the law is whatever the chief/sheriff says it is. you can always get a lawyer after.
I would be reticent to add my name to a lawsuit filed against my local police department.
there ya’ go.
In MA, guns are not allowed to be carried into police stations. So I went to the cop shop last week to get some information about renewing my LTC, and the desk cop is sitting behind bulletproof glass, the hardened doors to the left and right are remote controlled, and I have no idea how many armed po-po there are inside the sanctum sanctorum. But the Wrath of Khan would be visited upon me for pocketing my M642 on hallowed ground.
“Wrath of Khan would be visited upon me for pocketing my M642 on hallowed ground.”
Nope, just dog with the big nuts dirt and you ain’t gonn play.
Not unless you ‘unpocketed’ it.
They just watched “TERMINATOR” and scared a T-800 drone will visit.
There’s no such law prohibiting carry in police stations in MA. I’m not saying it’s the best idea, but it’s definitely not illegal, and signs do not carry the force of law in MA, either. A private business could ask you to leave if you are carrying- a PD is public, though, and you can’t be trespassed (not to say they won’t threaten you with arrest, but there’s no real charge).
Carry where you can, don’t where you can not, challenge when prudent.
Can you at least buy a non-crappy holster, and, get one with a retention mechanism. 5 o’clock carry in a fobus, OC guys sure are good for a laugh.
john wayne, clint eastwood, lone ranger and marshal dillon didn’t worry about no stinkin’ retention holster. this here is texas.
Join reality bro!
reality ???
how bout walker, texas ranger?
reality….so pedestrian, so mundane, so cliche’, so boring.
Dillon was in Kansas. John wayne was in Monument valley. Eastwood was a cop in San Francisco and the Lone Ranger was fictional. What does any of this have to do with Texas?
they all passed thru texas at some point, making them honorary texans. and in one of their movies, action took place in some part of texas. so there.
I’ve passed thru Texas numerous times. Does that make me an honorary Texan?
absolutely. you should have stopped at a border control point (visitor center) on your way out to get your certificate and hat. and if you do something important somewhere else in the future, texas will claim you as a native.
Are you a native Texan, George?
yep.
The Lone Ranger was not fictional, I saw him on TV! Just like the others. And a TEXAS Ranger! And I’ve been a native Texan since I was 25.
+1
Negro, Please. The Lone Ranger was fictional. Nobody littered the west with silver bullets. And his best “bud” was a swarthy fellow dressed in leather.
These 2 guys were the direct ancesters of the Village People.
They all carried retention holsters. A “cowboy” holster has a leather thong that loops over the hammer, mostly to keep the gun from falling out while riding a horse.
Tom Selleck calls a guy out about it in Crossfire Trail: “You’re going to have a hard time pulling that hogleg with it still lashed down.”
in the last 10yrs or so, those loops appeared. prior to that you never saw anyone take time to move a loop (never saw one on the holster, either) before shooting down a dirty dog outlaw in the street.
I have noticed other businesses in DFW area that have now put up both signs since January. I hope it’s not a trend in response to open carry
I’ve noticed the same. Businesses that previously had no signs now have fully compliant 30.06 and 30.07 signs. My daughter’s elementary school is now posted with both 30.06 and 30.07 signs. Just because you’ve won the battle doesn’t mean that you can’t lose the war.
Schools have always been prohibited with or without the sign, and that hasn’t changed.
Class C Mis, $200 fine, no loss of license, and that is if you are caught… Take what you will from that.
Moms demand attention have been sending toadies around to local business in the hoisting area and telling them 30.07 signs are not correct and they will help them have the right signs for free . Then they Post 30.06 as well.
Don’t think that something as arbitrary as the size of the sign changes the intent or the message of the poster. Unless you have the means to pay for court and jail doesn’t bother you then don’t go assuming something wouldn’t be upheld.
The law is very specific in Texas- the sign indicates intent- I’ve seen quite a few of these with the 30.07 law spelled out quite nicely- on a sheet of 8 1/2″ x 11″ printer paper. So, while a person ignoring this can be asked to leave, and even escorted out by the police, he can’t be cited under 30.07, as the law clearly requires a sign with one inch high letters, as well as an identical sign in Spanish.
“he can’t be cited under 30.07”
Bull.
Police can cite anyone they think has violated the law. Police aren’t known for memorizing statutes, and they interpret them the way they like. It’s the job of the court system to decipher the law and determine if someone broke it. If you want to spend the bucks to be a test case, feel free.
Illinois also has very specific signage requirements that went into effect in 2014. The interpretation of the law might come from a liberal Chicago judge, or a conservative rural judge. I’m not going to be a test case.
Then you deserve what you get. In TX, I am perfectly willing to be a test case, when the worst they can do is fine me $200, and then I can sue the poster and the police, assuming I am still there when the cops arrive. That is how they will recognize that posting their ridiculous signs accomplishes nothing. I doubt I will ever get the chance to be a test case, as I have ignored 30.06 signs for 15 years now and never had a single problem.
I’m sure the cops view it as any criminal who pulls a gun on the premises is getting shot, so you don’t need to carry. And they’re probably worried about some concealed carrier flipping out in traffic court about a ticket.
While I’d say that a police station is theoretically the safest place you could be, that means cops should allow you to carry since you won’t go postal either.
I think you’re nuts
Mr. Weingarten’s employment doesn’t keep him very busy if he has time to wander around in a ridiculous rig trying to find someone to insult. Or, maybe that is his employment. Yeah, sometimes employers make you do stupid sh!t.
Let me guess. You support 2a, but……..
“government entities that ban firearms improperly in their buildings”–do I smell a UT professor or two in there somewhere??
I don’t think they count as government entities, tho I could be wrong.
If they accept one thin dime of taxpayer money they count as government.
“I haven’t seen the Benbrook police department listed among those who have had complaints filed against them with AG Paxton, at least not yet. But I will not be surprised if I find them on such a list, eventually.”
“The attorney general’s homepage has a prominent link for citizens to report government entities which may be unlawfully prohibiting concealed firearms.”
You are a citizen, aren’t you? Why are you waiting for someone else to file a complsint? You were there, you talked to thrm, why don’t YOU file the complaint?
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”
Comments are closed.