P1160230r

There have been a metric buttload of M1 Garand and M1 Carbine rifles sitting in legal limbo for years. They’re surplus firearms that were issued during the Korean War, but since the end of the conflict they’ve been collecting dust as no one seems to want them. Except American firearms collectors, that is. The State Department has blocked their importation on the grounds that these guns might be used to commit crimes, and one Wyoming congresswoman, Rep. Cynthia Lummis, is sufficiently pissed off about it that she’s actually doing something to try to remedy the situation . . .

She’s introduced and amendment to remove “curio and relic” guns from the State Department’s jurisdiction . . .

Press release from her office:

On Tuesday U.S. Representative Cynthia Lummis (R-Wyo) introduced H.R. 2247, the Collectible Firearms Protection Act.  The bill reverses a State Department decision to block the importation of historic M1 Garand rifles and M1 carbines from South Korea.  Originally furnished by the United States to South Korea for military purposes over 50 years ago, the rifles are widely sought collectors’ items and among the most popular rifles in marksmanship competitions.  The rifles are perfectly legal to manufacture and sell in the United States and like all firearm imports would be subject to the federal rules and regulations governing retail firearm sales.  A similar sale from South Korea was approved during the Reagan Administration.  The current State Department’s interference with the sale runs counter to the intent of Congress, which on two prior occasions amended the law to allow for this kind of transaction.

“It’s disappointing that legislation is even necessary to allow U.S. citizens to access perfectly legal and regulated firearms, in this case storied, U.S.-made rifles that are pieces of U.S. military history,” Rep. Lummis said. “This is a political stunt on the part of the State Department, pure and simple, while denying the exercise of Second Amendment rights by law-abiding citizens, firearm collectors, and competitive marksman.  The State Department has no business blocking domestic firearm ownership; they are way out of bounds and my legislation will put them back in their place.”

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161 COMMENTS

  1. I would love a m1 that was in Korea. Also I’m hoping that more garands = less of my $$$ that I have to fork out to get one.

  3. Amen, about time! I have an M1 but would love a Carbine!

    And since I just got my FFL03, even better

  4. I would like to have one of those Garands. All through this ammo drought .30-06 has been available. And I dig milsurps and the best sights on a milsurp rifle come on the m1.

    I would like to have one of those carbines also. But here in Ca. we can’t have the standard 15 round issue mags and I’ve heard horror stories of the after market 10 rounders. My wife is 5 foot tall. The carbine would be the perfect general purpose long arm for her.

    • I’d be in line to buy one of each! I’ve shot ’em both and really like ’em both. The only thing I’d want is to see .30 Carbine come down in price. It’s weirdly expensive. I guess because it isn’t very popular. Unfortunately it’s really easy to plink through ridiculous amounts of ammo with an M1 Carbine, and $0.50 a round for cheap stuff adds up fast.

    • Has she tried the Mini-14? I think it would make a nice M1 Carbine stand-in and the 10 round magazines are quite reliable.

      • CG, no. I’m leery of the mini 14. My experience with them in the past was less than stellar. I’ll be the first to admit I haven’t tried the newer ones.

        • The newer models have shown an improvement in accuracy and weight. I don’t blame you for being leery, though. Why Ruger put out a substandard product like the Mini 14 for so long is beyond me.

        • Never knew they had an issue, just assumed I did not know how to shoot a peep hole type of sight. Always shot my lever actions and 22s just fine. Now haven’t shot my Mini-14 in over 25 years. Fun gun but never could hit anything reliably with it…

          Would love an M-1 Garand, would be nice having a piece of history like that.

    • @ jwm;
      I can vouch for these Mags as being of excellent quality and performance. I have about 10 / 10rounders that are consistantly reliable having had no FTFs in my Fulton M-1 Carbines which are also of high quality.
      They are like the later manufactured original 15 rounders in that they have a perpendicular face on the rear of the follower to hold the bolt open after the last round has been sent down range. Out of stock right now but well worth the wait.

      See:
      http://www.fulton-armory.com/magazinecarbine10roundnew.aspx

  7. Even if you don’t want one, contact your representatives on my behalf, please, because I do.

  8. Well, Ms Lummis seems to be among the minoriry in Washington who actually has a clue and heart regarding the people she represents.

  9. hmm, I’m broke and these will be cheap…there isn’t any ammo for the guns I own, but there is still plenty of .30-06…these are part of firearm and military history and I love firearm and military history. perfect match.

    will these guns be only available through cmp, or do you think Bubba’s Gun shop will be able to order them from the State department?

    • Unfortunately using commercial ammo in Garands is a no-go. Too much pressure compared to the ‘old’ ammo. Need to reload, use surplus (drying up) or use special ‘garand’ ammo that is made by a few companies.

  13. If I am not mistaken the M-1 wasn’t on DiFi’s AWB list. If DiFi doesn’t object then these re-imports should be good to go.

    • I don’t know… they are scary military grade weapons used to assault an enemy. Surely they must be inherently evil. It’s not like a hunter would actually use this magazine-fed, semi-auto, centerfire rifle to take innocent game….

      -sarcasm-

      Yeah, I want one, too.

      • But they aren’t scary. They are made of nice wood with a fixed stock, They don’t have a thingy that goes up, they don’t have a detachable high capacity magazine and 30-06 is a hunting cartridge.

    • Difi will vote down the bill just to spite gun owners and on a matter of principle. She is safe in that the people who vote for her do not care and there is talk that she is done come the end of her term. It is not a matter of what makes sense or what iw right or what was in her own Bill, she will vote it down “just because” she has nothing to loose or gain.

    • it was the U.S. “assault rifle” of the 1940’s so if she knew that she would add it to the list.

      • Given the way we generally use the M-4/M-16 today it was the original American assault rifle.

    • The M1 Carbine was developed for rear area troops as a replacement for a pistol. The M2 was developed at the tail end of WW2 as a full auto version of the M1 carbine.

      • The pistol replacement never did replace the pistol and was actually made in numbers that exceeded the m1 rifle. Go figure. The .30 carbine ammo was the first non corrosive ammo in general issue in the US forces.

    • I have a $400 Garand. In 1999 I bought an imported all-but-receiver kit & a year later a new receiver when the price dropped. Assembled it (indexing the barrel to the receiver was tricky), fired it, works great. Total cost less than $400 including the VHS how-to vid.

      Sure hope the Korean M-1s find good homes here.

    • Pass leg. removing all regulatory authority from the State Dept. State Dept not become corrupt and incompetent since Bozo was sworn in. Useless bunch of ozygen thieves if any ever existed.

  21. The issue is actually very simple..

    The firearms are US taxpayer property. We paid for them. They are sitting unused. They are legal to own for citizens of the US. There is no good reason for them to continue sitting in a warehouse in SK.

    Return the taxpayer-funded equipment to the taxpayers.

    • This is always the argument I used on the grabbers:

      We, the taxpayers, either built them or paid for contractors to build them. They’re our property. They’re surplus to the needs of the US Government, so they should be sold to recapture the costs of creating and maintaining them.

      Usually much spluttering ensues.

      • Except for the fact that these particular rifles were sold, not loaned, to the South Korean government. They are not US property. And the South Korean government would love to sell them to someone else.

        • True enough.

          But I view this batch as replacement for all the iron that was destroyed during Slick Willy’s terms.

  22. I’d give a Garand a loving home. This isn’t going to get through the current Senate though. And if it does, Obama will veto it.

    • Good, let him veto it. All he will accomplish is to piss off a lot of Korean War vets that will come back on them in 2014/2016

      • If he does veto it, and I expect he would, even more people will see how much of an anti-American jacka$$ he is. Guns are just fine for Mexicans and Syrians, but not for responsible Americans. The statist media will give him a free pass, but we won’t.

  23. This makes me all kinds of giddy. My grandfather was stationed in Korea, and my father will not own any firearm, with the exception of the M1. I would love to get both of us a little piece of history.

  25. I’d love one too. Just to help make me more of a “collector” lol. I’d shoot the shit out of an M1 🙂

  26. “The State Department has blocked their importation on the grounds that these guns might be used to commit crimes.” What a bunch of turds we have running our country. How are these rifles any different from what I can buy anytime I want at the LGS or gunshow?

    • Are you talking about “real” M1s and Carbines or reproductions? Have you ever held and shot an M1 or Carbine? I would suggest you do, you will never ask again. Simply how the M1 points makes you change your view on other rifles.

      • Sorry, what I meant was that they are no more lethal than any gun I can already buy. I understand what you mean when you say they are awesome rifles.

  27. Stupid question (and historical value aside) how does the modern M1 hold up against the original? My range has had a modern one for sale for a little while now, I was thinking about it.

    • The new production at places like Fulton Armory are simply magnificent weapons. STUPIDLY expensive, but the closest thing any of us will ever see to an M1 as it would have been issued to our fathers and grandfathers.

  28. I wonder how much they would charge for a Garand though. If its under $500.00 I would pick up a few, under $750.00 only 1 or 2…more than that I will just keep buying AR’s.

    • I guess it will depend on what distributors get ahold of them. Im sure the CMP would get alot and I believe you have to take their classes and become a member to buy through them? Sorry but cost of travel, room and food isnt worth it to me.

      • I thought you just had to be a member of a CMP affiliated gun club/range and shoot in a hi powered rifle match. (Note, some of my terms might be wrong. Google it if you want)

        • I have purchased from CMP though I am not a competition shooter. Membership in my local rifle and pistol club was enough.

      • No, you just have to be a member of some type of competitive shooting organization. Go to the CMP site for details. The requirements are pretty easy.

      • Thanks all for the feedback, thats good to know. I guess I missunderstood the last time I read up in them.

  31. I’m just going to point this out but getting a firearm through CMP is very easy if you happen to have friends in the military who will order yours for you then it will be shipped right to their house and await your pick up.

  32. This statement here….no one has a clue.
    “Asked why the M1s pose a threat, the State Department spokesman referred questions to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. ATF representatives said they would look into the question Monday afternoon, but on Wednesday they referred questions to the Justice Department. DOJ spokesman Dean Boyd referred questions back to the State Department.”

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/01/obama-administration-reverses-course-forbids-sale-antique-m-rifles/#ixzz2WbJJALxb

  33. The Garand and the Carbine proved to be extremely effective in the hands of Americans fighting against Totalitarian regimes. Why oh why would our current administration be afraid of importing something like that?

  34. Looks like it’s time to go ahead and file the paperwork for a C&R FFL. Been putting it off for too long anyhow.

    • I need to do the same. The paperwork is sitting in a box waiting for me to fill it out.

  35. From what I’ve read, the M1 Carbine is a pretty lame firearm, and its ballistics are even worse than for a .223. Have read that the bullets would bounce off the heavy weather clothing of the Chinese troops. Really not effective beyond 100 yards. But I still want one. I’ve wanted one for years.

    I was at one of my LGS one day, admiring a Garand. I remember the store owner commenting that a Garand is a rifle that you will take hunting–once.

    • I think the 30 Carbine round has gotten a very bad rap over the years, mainly because people compare it to the 30-06. Absolutely less power, less range, less everything. BUT, consider a 110 grain bullet moving at 2000 fps. Darned if that doesn’t hit harder than a 357 Magnum. And Hornady now makes Critical Defense rounds in 30 Carbine using the FTX bullet.

      If a 357 is an effective self-defense round, how can 30 Carbine be any less effective? And my carbine holds many, many more rounds than my Model 19.

      Plus, it is the ONLY weapon that I was able to get every one of my family members to go practice with at the range because it was so fun and painless to shoot. My carbine is my go-to HD weapon and every member of my family can operate it effectively.

    • Mark N. The .30 carbine was made to take the place of the sidearm. It wasn’t meant as a long range weapon. It’s quick and easy to train raw troops with and it has reasonable power at moderate ranges.

      And I’ve heard those stories of .30 carbine bouncing off the winter clothes of the reds. I heard the same stories about .45 acp bouncing off their clothes also. I call bullsh!t on those stories.

      • Yes I know it was designed to take the place of a side arm (why you would replace an easily portable pistol with a rifle I’m not sure, but whatever) but because it was so lightweight it became immediately popular to frontline troops as a battle rifle, a purpose for which it was not designed.

        • The thinking at the time with replacing pistols with carbines was that pistols were training intevsive and just not much use on the battlefield. The carbine was supposed to give the guys that were on the battlefield but whose primary weapon wasn’t the infantry rifle a more effective way to protect themselves.

          Officers, machine gunners, radio operators, gun crews were supposed to get the carbine instead of the pistol. But the pistols were kept and the carbine added. Go figure.

          On a side note. German soldiers took as many carbines as they could from Americans and used them. I guess if it was a choice between a 98 mauser and the carbine the carbine won out.

        • >> why you would replace an easily portable pistol with a rifle I’m not sure, but whatever

          Because a pistol is practically useless on the battlefield other than a last ditch weapon, when distance to enemy is a couple dozen yards at most. What they wanted was a firearm that could be used by artillery crews and such effectively at reasonable distances in case they are ambushed by enemy infantry.

          Really, M1 Carbine was the world’s first PDW conceptually. Even its chambering is very much PDW-like, when you account for the fact that body armor was very uncommon them.

    • You may hear a lot of claims about the .30 Carbine round “bouncing off the cold weather wear” (I’ve heard this of both South Koreans and Germans), but no one seems to put their money where their mouth is and actually testing it out on the range.

      I think some people don’t understand that it’s not designed to hit and kill at 500 yards with no sweat like the Garand- it was intended to be a more useful arm (more rounds in the mag and less skill involved) at the same ranges a pistol would be used at. To say nothing of the use that 15-round mag would have providing suppressing fire for a GI.

    • >> From what I’ve read, the M1 Carbine is a pretty lame firearm, and its ballistics are even worse than for a .223. Have read that the bullets would bounce off the heavy weather clothing of the Chinese troops.

      A lot of it is just folk mythology, as is common with many older firearms.

  38. You can send a FAX for free to all Congressman , look it up under Bing , will also get their phone no. DO IT FOR GUNNEY! that’s an order.

  39. Technically, there is no end to the conflict. There was a ceasefire agreement, but no end to the war.

  40. I’ll take one of each. Dumping a bunch on the market all at once could drive the price down to that of a cheap AR.

    Any idea if the Koreans used a different pressure in their 30-06 ammo?

    • I have used 3006 from Korea 100% mil spec. and also if you see any M1 carbine, M14 magazines or AK47 magazines buy them top of the line made mil. spec from South Korea, they were given our machines to make them with too… SAME as USA MADE!!!!!THE M1 clips from the South Korea are the best too..

  43. Ive wanted one anyone carbine or. Well before I had heard of the restriction on the imports out there.
    Im not even able to use a rifle due to shoulder injuries.
    I just want my A1……………………….

  44. ok, what can we do to support this effort, especially if we are not in her state? Does TTAG have a Spam-Reps app yet?

  47. My mailing to my congresscritter:

    I trust I can count on your support of Congresswoman Cynthia Lummis’ (R, WY) bill allowing importation of M1 Garand rifles and M1 Carbines sold to the Republic of South Korea over 50 years ago.

    I would love to be able to acquire one of each of these historical icons through the Civilian Marksmanship Program which has handled similar transactions during the Reagan administration.

    I was deeply distressed to learn of the destruction of large quantities of M14 rifles ordered by the Clinton administration that could have been made available through the same avenue. This rifle is legal for sale and possession by civilians as are the M1 rifle and M1 carbine.

    The GOP is the only potentially effective bastion in defense of the 2d Amendment in the face of the hoplophobic Democrat party. I can only assume that their fear of militarily effective arms in the hands of the civilian populace is due to their presumption of the likely reactions to their achievement of their political goals. They would not be wrong.

  48. And we want the Bayonets, magazines, clips, and ammo back too and most of these rifles and carbines will be WW2 issue having a greater collector value … and remind your congressman this are old collector arms and will bring back to the USA millions of dollars, so we cry about the budget , but destroy good money… from surplus .. WHY?

    • Umm, *We* cry about the budget. The same bastardi who are writing checks we can’t cash are the ones trying to short circuit effective opposition.
      As a recovering cavalryman, you, as the last gyrene out, have my deepest sympathies. Just sayin… 😉

    • If they go through the CMP, all proceeds go back into the Markmanship program, NOT back to the taxpayers. So good luck selling htem on that idea. If they are re-imported through some importer like SARCO, then that company gets all the profits.

  49. Best looking rifle ever designed.

    It’s on my wish list.

    We really need a clean sweep in 2016.

  51. The reason the M1 carbine was liked so well in the front lines was the 15 round magazines, and it worked well in hot or cold weather,,, Ask Audie Murphy who around 340 Germans, on his last day on the battle field he was being attacked by hundreds of Germans, he was using his M1 carbine until he ran out of ammo then wounded got on a knocked out tank and used the 50 cal. machine gun and was able single handed to stop hundreds of attacking Germans and saved his unit that would have been wiped out…

  52. Any idea if these will potentially filled with cosmoline? Just bough my first Mosin Nagant the other day, and I think it might be worth the extra $600-$700 to get one without it… (Only halfway kidding.)

    • Welcome to the milsurp world. I would be surprised, pleasantly, if the Korean M1’s weren’t soaked in cosmo. i assume that they’ve been in long term storage.

    • Heck, I’ve bought Mosins that had $600-$700 worth of cosmoline in ’em…

      As painful as the cosmo is to deal with, I hope these M1s and Carbines have been soaking in it for the last fifty years, otherwise, they’re probably gonna be rustbucket wall-hangers. I doubt a bunch of crates of “obsolete” rifles have been kept in ideal storage conditions for all this time.

  53. Sorry I didn’t have time to read all 116 comments. I searched the comments for the name Dinkheller. We were shown that video again and again. My blessings to him and his family. Could this have an influence on the decision not to import. I am 100% for importation of these 600K carbines. $435 MILLION Dollars into the Federal coffers. That’s almost a half a Billion! 600k x suggested CMP retail of $725. I’ll get my order in today.

  54. Has anyone taken the State Department to court on this. Where are you NRA and the Second Amendment Foundation on this? Since the M1 and M1 carbine are classified as curio and relics by the BATF, they are lawful to import. The burden of proof that these firearms are used in crimes would be very difficult for the State Department to prove.

  55. Is “buttload” a volume or weight measurement?

    I’m trying to figure out the Metric to Imperial conversion rate.

  57. What dirty, evil, commie, libtard (democrat) would try to stop these historic warhorses from coming home? Answered my own question.

  58. Who the hell do they think they are kidding? These guns are leaving Korea and going straight to Syria, to help our “Friends”, for the children.

  60. Bill Clinton destroyed millions of weapons while in office , Hillary (may she burn in hell) was the force behind stopping the imports from Korea… HOW do they ever get elected …. No Syria will get first rate NEW stuff , YOU know! tax and spend !!! our money! Boy i get 10 shades of red about these people……

  62. Doesn’t it strike you as strange that we need special legislation to bring home our own rifles … rifles that were used to spread and protect the freedoms that we (supposedly) still stand for.

    It just seems like the ultimate irony to me.

  63. I’m 61 years old Korean. I’ve shoot the M1 garand and carbines in 1976 in ROK army’s basic traing course. Even I shot the brand new M-1 carbine that was just imported from USA few moths ago.(it looks like a surplus guns stored in a steel can). M1 carbine is still the main combat rifle for reserved force.(Not for a regular Army but for reserved force who trained and shoot few rds of carbine regularly). Nowadays I havn’t seen the M1 Garand in Korea more than 20 years. They may be aged and getting rotted in the magazine.(thinking humid Korean air in summer)
    Literally we can not keep and bear arms. M1 Garand is useless in Korea. I saw the article Uncle Sam prohibiting of Buying back US rifles in the newspaper. I think M1 has some nostalgic value to American. I hope M1 returned to their home land.

    • Mr. Koo,
      You are absolutely right about the nostalgia of those rifles. I have an M1 carbine of my own, that I keep more for it’s sentimental value than anything else.

  65. Some facts are being missed.

    These firearms are not US property. This would be a private importation and no money will go to the US except for some taxes and fees.

    CMP has nothing to do with this. This is a totally private deal and the rifle profits will go to the investors importing them.

  66. The rifles will also have to be defaced with a importation mark per the 68 law and thus destroy a large amount of their collector value.

  67. That last point I wanted to make is that the money involved is staggering!

    The carbines are auctioned off to the importer investors by the Korean GOV.

    If the amount of CARBINE rifles is over 600,000, the deal could be worth around $200,000,000 .

    The total end RETAIL cost could reach 1 billion.

    Just think of just the tax revenue 1 billion could produce???

  68. Guys, be CAREFUL with your AMMO for Garands….. 9 years ago in Miami mine BLEW UP in my face, a case had ruptured at the extraction groove, and detonated the round below it… stock went in 2 directions and floorplate was BENT down… the strength of the riflle receiver is what saved me… good luck to all, and keep reloads to minimum pressures

  69. Dear BON SOO KOO, thank you for your service to the Rep. of Korea… Imagine, then, that the U.S and ROK cannot stop the invasion south across DMZ, or enough NK infiltrators get through the tunnel system, yes I,ve read quite a lot.. then who will be left UNARMED to fight, the Gangnam style Singer and his girlfriends? they’ll all die just as the former girl friend of Sum Rong Sun was executed last week………..lets see if the ROK politicians cant figure out something….

  71. that’s right, not even Diane Feinstein considered the Garand on any of her lists.. so why should NoDrama care????

  75. Way to go Rep Lummis! I may be in love 🙂

    These are a piece of history that needs to be returned to the US as we LOANED them to Korea.

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