“Even though I’m a gun holder and I’m licensed to carry, being stopped by the police still worries me. It’s gotten to the point where I kind of don’t want to carry because it makes me more uneasy to drive while having my gun in my vehicle. For a while, I didn’t even carry it while driving ― whether I was out at a nightclub or whether I had a date. I didn’t even bother. I’d just take the chance because I was that afraid of the police.” – Courtney Cable quoted in Why Black People Own Guns [via huffingtonpost.com]
What’s scarier, the police or the denizens?
Truthfully, it depends on the area. I can avoid the worst areas of the city if I’m worried about thugs. I *can’t* avoid being around cops…
The nice thing about all this is that are “good” ways to deal with these situations when stopped by LE. With very, very few exceptions, mainstream LE doesn’t just stop someone because they’re Black, White, Asian, etc. Thinking that’s how we work in racism in and of itself… The key to success when we’re around is this:
1) Don’t do dumb s***.
2) When in a traffic stop, don’t argue with us. You may know your rights, but so do we. Arguing is only going escalate things more than necessary.
3) Cooperate with us. Just because we pull you over now doesn’t mean you’re getting a summons (ticket) – right now. You might get a warning instead, or perhaps you simply match the description of a BOLO & we need a closer look, etc.
4) There are a number of ways to inform us that you have a firearm with & that you have it legally. The best thing to do is look at your State’s laws and determine if you legal to have gun with you “in that manner” – however it may be. If 100% legal, are you in a “shall declare” State, or are you not required to say anything? From there, look into the USCCA – they have a ton of information related on how to announce to LE that you are carrying.
Hope this helps!
What you say is not all fact(s). It depends on the LEO.
LEO’s are human just like use all (until otherwise proven), with attitudes and longitudes; if you catch my drift (meaning). The part about matching a description is more nonsense. That is a ‘company line’ used conveniently, when the users decides.
I have had, and continue to have a BOLO (alert) directed at ‘a’ vehicle I frequently drive.
Said vehicle is legal to infinity, with no ties to any organization –this is what can’t be understood; by whom ever. When I drive other vehicles, LEO(s) do not have a clue.
The individual LEO, regardless of uniformed or not, will always look for PC (probable cause) to justify most of their stops or query’s into other peoples affairs.
Not only don’t some cops NOT know my rights, some of them know them, and don’t CARE. Just ask them. There are plenty of videos of them saying EXACTLY that.
Police and citizens are adversaries, and that’s largely the doing of the police. Just ask Emma Hernandez, Margie Carranza, and David Perdue.
2) When in a traffic stop, don’t argue with us. You may know your rights, but so do we. Arguing is only going escalate things more than necessary.
We know your rights (maybe) & we will violate them any way we want to whenever we want to. Your rights are what we say they are. Be grateful slaves.
There, fixed it for you. Filthy LE jackboot…
It depends upon where you are.
The police in Chicago are VERY different from the Berea, Ohio police, more different from the latter than from the Latin Kings.
As a white guy I felt the same way at first. Granted, I was living a hyper-left-leaning urban shithole at the time and the process to get a permit taught me that the power structure would do anything it could to prevent me from carrying so right out of the gate I felt like a targeted individual for years.
Every cop I saw was an enemy to be avoided at all cost. Cold sweats when one was driving behind me. Don;t make eye contact less he fly into the red zone over nothing at all. Is this cop one of the “good” ones or will he do everything in and above his power to ruin me for exercising my rights?
I’m far removed from that situation but I still can’t fully trust cops. Nobody had to teach me they hated me. They told me so in words and actions. The entire political structure did so.
This is what it’s like the first time you do anything everyone around you would rather you not do. Lawful or not.
Keep at it and it will become normal in time. Normalization is the best weapon against this feeling. Not necessarily normalization with society at large or even your peers but normalization with yourself. That, in turn, radiates out to society at large.
“…normalization with yourself”
A very large part of successful life. When you put your energy to controlling your own life and actions, losing the desire to control what other people do and have, you come into the reality of individual liberty and lose your fear of most other people. Defending yourself against aggression becomes expected, not something shameful.
Moving away from the corrupt city cesspools certainly can’t hurt.
My takeaway from this article is the defacto acknowledgement by the author and the Huffpo of the blatant racism of liberal/democrat policies and ideas regarding firearms ownership in this country.
I agree with you.
The policies set forth for gun control are liberal and they do disproportionately impact minorities.
Everyone should be free to carry.
I finally finished the article and found it to be the most refreshing thing I’ve read all season – even felt compelled to throw in a comment or two.
The number one take I see from it: blacks do NOT think as a single group any more than whites do – and politicians at every level would do well to remember that. Promising more gun owner control laws might endear a candidate to a noisy number of black voters but there will be a quieter number who will take great umbridge with a promise to disarm them.
🤠
I found this last line most informative, and most surprising that it wasn’t edited-out:
“And most of them returned to a sentiment as old as the nation itself: that owning firearms is a rebellion against a system bent on keeping them out of the hands of black folks.”
I second that. As an Asian CCW I actually find the opposite happening. The liberals stereotype Asians as non-violent, peace-loving, law-abiding citizens. Therefore an Asian with a gun is a shock more than anything else. The writer does make an excellent point though and were I black I would also seriously question my safety around cops.
Every citizen should question their safety around cops, regardless of race. They are an occupying army ready to oppress you at a moment’s notice. Stay safe, stay armed & stay ready.
This is how I define tyranny.
There was a good assessment from black guns matter in that article.
Bad cops have earned fear of all cops for all cops. I imagine that the majority are not very bad (and a few are excellent) but the courts, fellow police (esp the unions) and the law has made it very easy to be a psychopathic predator if you are a cop.
I am afraid of every cop because I don’t know which ones are the assholes and I am quite certain that they can likely get away with anything they choose to do to me. Every time a light goes out on my car at night I know that that is blood in the water.
As a courier that drove a lot at night I have had a few frightening interactions with police and I frequently read about how to put cops at ease during a traffic stop and adhere to that advice very much. That doesn’t help when you get power mad sadist though.
Sadly there likely are a few ill informed police that do harass the law abiding, however I believe that the majority of police are decent people that have come to understand that concealed and open carry are legal and not a cause to bother people. That said I have to point out a couple lapses in Conneceticut, my state of residence.
Interestingly, the moralizing anti gun Democrat dominated supposedly anti-racist legislature was very keen on passing legislation to go after people open carrying by seemingly requiring police to confront them for ID. The law was not passed, apparently in some part because it was recognized as a racist law. The greater problem is the attitude of people like Gov Malloy of CT is that they just have to wait a while and run that bill again later when people might not be paying attention or are worn down to apathy from the apparent disregard state government has for the citizens of CT.
Two videos, one police harass a legal open carry in Bridgeport, CT. Noted as 19th of “100 Most Dangerous American Cities” by https://lawstreetmedia.com/100-dangerous-chart/
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/01/13/open-carry-gun-owner-videotapes-police-requesting-his-permit-inside-connecticut-store-just-wait-until-you-get-a-load-of-his-answer
The second, a 2nd amendment activist has his phone confiscated, the CT State Police conspire to create charges against him. This is discovered because they don’t realize the phone is recording their conversation and it is later retrieved by the activist.
https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/09/connecticut-state-police-sued-after-caught-on-camera-plotting-to-fabricate-charges-against-open-carry-activist/
After reading the huffpo article it seems to be an attempt imprint reasons and label “black gun owners” and by labelling them keep them separate from “american gun culture” as far as it goes the article does make statements that seem to be meant to separate “black gun owners” and create further divides. Fact is “black gun owners” are not all that different in motivation on owning guns. At least from the people I have met. 1. guns are fun, 2. self defense of family and self. 3. It is my right as an American.
It is interesting that Huffpo would take a new angle and admit that there are black gun owners.
Not only black, gun owners but black gun, owners as well.
The purpose of the article is to convince blacks that they should not carry guns because they may be “mistreated” by the police. Sounds vaguely familiar somehow….
Why are law abiding black people afraid to carry handguns?
Ask Shaneen Allen. Or John Filippidis, who isn’t black, left his gun in Florida and still got assaulted and illegally searched by badge toting felons in Maryland.
Then there’s Philando Castile.
We can argue all day about whether Philando is responsible for his own death or not, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of blacks look at it and think “that could have been me”, and I can’t tell them “no, they won’t kill you”.
There are corrupt cops and cops who uphold their duty to protect and serve the citizens who are footing their paycheck and believe in the Constitution. I have had no problem with the latter, the former are either ona power trip or on a leash held by democrats
Cops do not have a “duty” to protect and serve. They do it at their own discretion. How they’re paid be damned.
Racism is a thing. I won’t deny that.
But I would submit that any person’s likelihood of being hassled by the police has a lot to do with whether or not you dress, behave and speak like a thug. It has less to do with skin color.
I agree 100%. If you disrespect a cop, whether he deserves it or not, you will be viewed and treated differently than if you adopt a “Yes sir/yes ma’am, No sir/no ma’am” attitude. Racism? Ok, but whitey with an attitude will be treated the same as any other color with an attitude. I have had many encounters, with a firearm on me or in my car. “Good morning officer, you’ll notice my hands are still on the steering wheel, that’s because my firearm is in the car/on my side, and my hands will stay where they are until you tell me to do otherwise.” Not “why are you stopping me? I did nothing wrong! Btw, I have the legal right to have a gun in my car, so there’s nothing you can do about that!! Stop harassing me!” The most common comments from them are “Where is it located?” and “Ok, just don’t reach for it. Can you get to your license and registration safely?” NEVER has a cop said “A gun? What for? Get out of the car!” Then again I’m white, decently dressed, and respectful. Are some cops dicks? Yes, that’s why I’m respectful. Btw, keeping your license/registration on top of the visor is a good idea.
I go with “yes sir, no sir” until I stop reciving the same respect in return. I’m too old to be talked down to by some wet behind the ears punk with a badge. I dont break any “laws” and won’t be belittled or talked to like a peice of crap. I’m sure in this day of body cameras the additudes have been dialed back now anyhow.
Attitudes, you mean?
Yes…you normally get what you give…and it applies to both sides.
But many people don’t respect the uniform/badge any more…ANY uniform…ANY badge.
There are bad cops…like in every profession. Need to deal with them as they are found.
You can’t hire timid, weak cops…they won’t get through the academies. So you already set yourself up for someone that is competitive from the start.
Maybe the requirements are selecting those with more aggressive traits from the very beginning.
Hmmm…food for thought there.
Age has a lot to do with it. 18 year old boys are all punks regardless of race. Well, most of them anyway. And if you’re of that age and you dress and act like a punk, people will assume you’re a punk.
When black people armed themselves against white supremacist attacks following the Civil War, Southern state governments passed “black codes” barring them from owning guns. After the Black Panthers open carried to signal to California police officers that they would defend themselves against racial attacks in the late ’60s, then-Gov. Ronald Reagan signed a state ban on open carry into law.
Were you trying to make a statement or just copy and paste from the article?
What is your point? That actual facts upset you?
There are LEOs that want to keep the peace and then those that are on a power trip. Many are focused on the type of people they pull over others are focused on a certain infraction that “by god, they are doing to make the public learn”.
Long hair on a man, beards, driving a better car (or living in a better neighborhood), whatever, can make local residents miserable.
Writing tickets – just to write tickets – is another form of abuse by police. I have been pulled over for stopping for a stop sign(that wasn’t visible coming down the street). “a little late”. This cop would wait around the sign part of his evening shift, just to catch people and then check them for DUI – that was his happy hunting ground. I beat the ticket and the city was forced to paint “stop ahead” on the road and to trim the tree.
They are out there, some that are willing to give ass whoppins, too!
Personally as a FOWG, I think it is great when blacks exercise their right to bear arms. First, it gives them the same exact amount of power that us FOWG’s have. Parity is a good place to be. Secondly, to truly heal the scars from overt racism, the victims must take action. Its like healing after surgery, the doctor can sew you up and give you meds to dull the pain, but the healing process is often dependent on the patient getting up an exercising the body parts. The post surgical exercise (physical therapy, etc…) is needed to fully heal the body, but is also painful at times. The option to just lay in bed and let other take care of you results in a lifetime disability.
I don’t blame her. I live on a busy street in the southern suburbs of Chicago. Stevie Wonder can observe who the local po-leece detain in the vast # of harassm…er stops. And I’m in my mid 60’s and understand how effed up the revenue model is in local po-leeceing. Yes how you speak,dress,groom and act has a huge bearing how you’re treated. Frankly I’m surprised more cops aren’t ASSaulted…
I have an out of state LTC and was told my licence was not recognized. Thankfully I was able to use my phone to show the officer I was legal.what would have happened if I did not have a signal on my phone? Would I have gotten my gun back? Would they replace my carry ammo? A lot of police do not know the laws.
True. But now many have computers and internet in their cars…and the ability to communicate with the office to verify statutes, warrants, etc.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Unless, of course, enforcing the law is your full time job.
Anybody else think that legal concept is entirely backwards?
Well personally I imagine that not a lot of black people carry guns is probably a function of statistics. A lot of them live in Democrat occupies cities where it’s harder to get legal access to self defense arms. Of course the fear aspect of it is a driver as well. But that’s also a bit of a function of how the media is doing it’s best to instill fear of authority with constant news coverage of every single bad shooting that happens.
being a white person and not black and not trying to act like i know everything, all i can say is that is understandable.
Shall issue is and has been the law in Michigan for a long time and so I think the police here (of all levels) have long been trained that people (CPL holders) with guns are a common (daily) occurrence.
I am in my 40s, Hispanic, had my CPL for almost 10 years and I carry every single day. I live in the Detroit area and drive through the city every day for work (not on the freeways). I have never been afraid to legally carry and I have never been given a problem by any of the tri-county area police for carrying.
I am much, much more afraid of being the victim of an armed robbery or other violent crime than of having a bad run in with police because I carry.
3 black people I work with also have their CPLs and carry every day and I also have 2 older brothers who have CPLs and carry every day.
We all arrived at a decision to carry at different times in our lives and through various circumstances but almost all of us had the same reason. It was out of a concern over violent crime.
I was going to read the article just because I’ve got too much time on my hands today. But the first thing I read at the top of the article is this; ‘HuffPost spoke with 11 black gun owners to figure out what gun ownership means in a country determined to keep its black populace unarmed.’
Who the hell is ‘determined to keep it’s black populace unarmed’? I’m not. The NRA isn’t. The GOP isn’t. Oh yea it’s the Democrats who are determined to keep blacks unarmed. They must be projecting their racist values on the whole rest of the country.
Same here. I started reading but stopped because my experiences and those of people I know have been completely different than those described in the article. It felt like it was designed to discourage people.
Yea, I skimmed through it. I think at least half actually didn’t carry even though they had permits because ‘it doesn’t make me safer’ because cops will shoot me or something. One guy was worried that what happened to Trayvon Martin could happen to him – like yea, if you’re unarmed and beating another guys head into the concrete and he happens to have a gun, yea, then you could end up like Trayvon. I think there’s a lot of confirmation bias here. But they did have Maj Toure and a couple of other firearm enthusiasts. Still seemed like an article intent on convincing black people that it’s not safe for them to carry a weapon though.
Who the hell is ‘determined to keep its black populace unarmed’?
HuffPo, Salon, Michael Bloomberg, The Democratic Party…
“Some people say it’s a contradiction for me as an African-American man to have a position: “When they wrote the Second Amendment, they didn’t mean it for you.” I don’t give a f*** who they meant it for. It’s mine now.”
C.S.: I like your approach! Constitutionally guaranteed rights are guaranteed for everyone. Working for the day when everyone recognizes that and acts that way.
The above quote is from Maj Toure, Black Guns Matter, from the article. I now feel dirty after clicking on the HuffPost…
It got better in southern IN. and northern KY. where it was common for police to take guns and get a hard judge to award them to the officers. It cost a lot more than the value of most guns to hire a lawyer and get them back. The cops would basically just steal them.
Reading Courtney Cable’s fearful admission makes me wonder how many black people are afraid to eat at a lunch counter in the South.
Probably no one, but only because so many people did. That’s the key. As long as a black person legally carrying is a rare event, blacks (and others) in that position will be regarded as suspicious. When it becomes more common and less atypical, the cops will react accordingly.
I’m an upstanding, white, affluent lawyer living in an idyllic suburb.
And I’m fucking terrified of the police.
My wife has so far received two DWBs since we moved here.
Have her hand over her license, registration–and your business card–when she is stopped. DWB is a real thing.
My son and his friend…both white…have been stopped by cops while in “black” neighborhoods…
is that profiling? is that DWW?
Hmmm?
The cops were actually honest and told them they stopped them because they were white in a black ‘hood…have problems with drug buys
I would have a bigger problem if they did not just check the papers and let you go. If they are wanting to do a patdown or vehicle search for no reason, for examples.
I would want to be more accountable as an officer…be able to articulate WHY I stopped a particular vehicle or person…and be able to tell that person…honestly…why they were being stopped.
Imagine the person you stop is your Mom or Grandmother…unless they are trying to kill you, of course.
Maybe the definition of “night club” is different where I live, and maybe the laws are different as well, but isn’t it illegal to carry in places where alcohol is served (generally speaking) whether you’re drinking or not?
Given that the police have NO legal duty to protect me as an individual, NOT carrying seems like an unforced error.
It’s buying into the philosophy of those like Rahm Emmanual and Bill Di Blasio, “We don’t have to protect you and we won’t let you protect yourself.
NO, I REFUSE.
Many black people can’t legally carry anyway…what with criminal histories and all.
Same for whites, too. Not denying that.
If you’ve ever wondered about this question, then this 2010 study (http://paa2011.princeton.edu/papers/111687) is for you!
About 25% of the total US adult black population has a felony, while 6.5% of adult non-blacks have a felony conviction. About 8.6% of the adult population has a felony conviction.
Florida is a particularly egregious police state. 35% of adult blacks in Florida have felony conviction, 14% of the total adult population in Florida have a felony conviction.
About 20 million people have a felony conviction in Amerika. That works out to about 1 in 12 adult Americans
https://www.libertariannews.org/2014/06/05/what-percentage-of-us-adult-population-that-has-a-felony-conviction/
A lot of hunters come into my store to buy archery equipment and black powder rifles because they are disqualified from owning firearms. They constitute a demographic cross-section of the area.
Black and white, most of them have been DQd because of something stupid that they did 25 years before, copped a plea for and did no time. But they’re still SOL.
your meaningless store anecdote does not change the fact that the data clearly show of the male population blacks are 11 times more likely to have a disqualifying arrest.
Washington DC has a gun ownership rate of 26% of all residents according to Brady center and and the Center to prevent gun violence.” under 1% of that is legal. 25% of all DC residents are illegal gun owners. The arrest records show that 20% of DC is black males 15 to 60, that 20% is 97% of all illegal gun possession.
Driving today with three unloaded weapons in the trunk I drove by two traffic stops of questionable necessity (it being near the end of the month and year). I again considered why police do not get a lot of respect. I have worked in the past with police, both black and white officers. They were like anyone else. I have co-workers who are married to cops; whose kids are cops. I suspect that these cops are totally normal. But when you work for the man, you become the man. I ask myself why do taxpayers put up with the revenue speed traps, artificially low speed limits, regulatory crap, etc. instead of insisting that the police patrol high crime areas and go after criminals? Every single cop patrols the way the politicians either allow or in the case of large D cities, demand. And every politician can be voted out. It only takes a few votes to turn an election (that VA delegate election with the one vote margin and of course Hillary’s guaranteed election as President.)
Me myself as a person of darker skin (i refuse to call myself black ) am legally able to carry but choose not to because in some situations with law enforcement they automatically categorize you as a thug or drug dealer or suspect because my hair clothes music speech is different but judging me by my appearance is wrong i dress the way i feel comfortable my dreads and 3 gold teeth do not stop me from doing my job as an accountant but when cops see a black man in a Porsche (ive gotten stopped a few times to see if it was stolen) it raises an eybrow they want to search my car id rather not give them a reason to hold me up any longer than a run my registration and let me be on my way having my firearm would be another hour to see if its clean check my permit run my license and subjectted to a ton of questions i dont want that headache especially in Florida where cops have been trigger happy lately
Periods, man, periods! I got all out of breath reading your post.
It’s not just non-whites. Several years back, police stopped an adult driver, allegedly for “erratic driving”. Cops went to both sides of the car, and commanded the driver to roll down the window. After doing so, the driver was commanded to look straight ahead, both hands on the steering wheel. To emphasize the point, the cop on the driver’s side placed the barrel of his cocked service revolver behind the left ear of the driver, and said, “Don’t move.” For some unknowable reason, the driver made some sort of movement (neither LEO could explain exactly), and the cop shot and killed the driver. There was no threat to the cop (verified by the second cop), but the investigation concluded it was a “good shoot” because the driver (still belted in his seat) failed to follow commands.
I am never comfortable seeing a patrol car behind me.
That incident always comes to mind when I think about carrying a concealed handgun.
Black males are NOT stopped, searched, detained, arrested, charged or imprisoned more per gun crime committed, but in fact less than compared to whites. commission rates mater. Blck males 15-60 are 6% of the zuSpopuaion and commit 32% of shootigns of cops, 53% of all gun murder, and 41% of all vioelnt felonies. the are less than 24% of people shot by cops.
Per violent felony committed black males are LESS at risk form cops arresting or shooting them than any other segment of the population.
if you somehow are so deluded that you think commission rates by cohort are irrelevant to stops or arrests then you must feel the most egregious civil rights and criminal justice problem is a bigotry toward men of all races since men of all races are stopped, searched, arrested, shot by cops and imprisoned at higher rates than women.
differences in stop, search, arrest and other outcomes such as being shot by cops or imprisoned are ALL reflections of commission rates. No group has a higher commission rate with less searches than black males.
I find your information interesting. Are there weblinks available to source documents?
Sadly in my part of the country, ( The south ) there is a constant shortage of police in the county I live. Hence the requirements for a Police Officer is dumbed down to allow lesser qualified candidates to fill these empty spots. I carry every day but I do so knowing these lesser experiences Officers know almost nothing about the carry laws in the State I reside. I have a very queasy feeling when I have one pull in behind me. We have had our fair share of shootings where the Police were obviously in the wrong but it was ruled a “Good shoot ” any way . I think a real lack of proper training is helping to fuel the tread we are seeing in cops who spook to easy and pull the trigger before thinking that is fueling a sense of uneasiness in law abiding , legally licensed citizens. These candidates need it stressed to them that you are to totally take race out of the equation and rely on training . Please don’t take me wrong, Most Police Officers are capable of performing at a professional level. It is the ones that are not I am the most concerned with.
I see the problem; she carrying a Taurus! As a dark skinned man, I can tell you that all of your concerns will be abated if carry another brand (and not High Point either). I should know, I once had a PT111. I lived in constant fear of an ugly confrontation with LEOs. Then I purchased a 92FS, and vois là! They’ve been ignoring me completely ever since!
Now, I hope that my little attempt at humor didn’t offend anyone. I’m both black and African-American (depending on which check-able box is available). I’ve had both bad an good experiences with police. However, when I see a police car behind me I don’t think a thing of it. I couldn’t possibly care less, because everything about me is legal. My car, guns, passengers, cargo, insurance, alcohol/drug level are all 100% good. I love guns, both for recreational shooting and self-defense. I purchased (paid for only) a gun for my pastor. The constitution is for all Americans. It’s sad to leave any of our rights unused. For anyone that does not wish to own/carry, I completely respect that stance. However, no one should be afraid to exercise their rights.
I think that self-isolated blacks and whites often suffer from ignorance. Everyone should get to know someone that is different than they are (or think they are). Get to know a cop. If you are black; start with a black cop if a white one’s too scary.
Lastly – the gun community is a friendly one. I’m a regular at a gun store near my home, and a visitor at everyplace that sells guns/ammo in a 15 mile radius. I suggest that for anyone that wants information walk their local gun store and get to know someone. Tell the sales person that you’re new to guns and 99 times out of 100 they’ll treat you right. Just don’t comment on the confederate flag tattoo!
🙂
I heard that! I hesitate as well and I am not black. I meet black guys who carry and even deer hunt and we all worry about Police reactions.
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