That’s the takeaway Mayor Mike Bloomberg wanted everyone to have after this morning’s shooting at 34th and 5th outside the Empire State Building. NYPD commissioner Ray Kelly told a press conference that after the shooter, Jeffrey Johnson, killed his intended victim outside his former office, he was ID’d by a construction worker and engaged by two NYPD officers. All the additional casualties (looks like 9 at this point) were the result of the crossfire between Johnson and the two patrolmen. All of the wounded are expected to survive and Johnson was the only additional fatality. Initial reports that the shooter used a shotgun appear to be false as Hizzoner was very specific that Johnson used a .45 semi-automatic and closed the presser with the observation that, “there are a lotta guns out there.”
It appears now the cops are credited with wounding the 9 bystanders.
If we do the math the cops did hit at the very least 4 people. The guy had a “semi-automatic .45 caliba with 8 rounds” (1911) and hit the man he killed with 3 of those rounds. That leaves him with 5 rounds, so even if he did hit 5 others with a round each the cops still had to hit at least 4 others. Knowing that he was gunned down pretty fast, I wouldn’t think he emptied his gun. Additionally, the cops were using their issued 14lb trigger pull handguns, so I’ll go out on a limb and say the cops probably hit all the bystanders in this shoot out.
14lb trigger pull!, is that true? I cant imagine hitting anything while yanking on a 14lb trigger while taking fire myself. No wonder so many bystanders were hit.
My understanding was that the NYPD triggers are 12 pounds. That’s the kind of guns that anti-gun city arm their police with.
I wonder if we’ll hear how many have holes from 124gr. Speer Gold Dots…….
“All the additional wounded were the result of the crossfire during the shootout between Johnson and the two patrolmen.”
“It’s a good thing there were no armed civilians out there – they would have missed the perp and accidentally shot innocent bystanders.” -Mayor Mike B (who, disguised as an occasional contributor to TTAG, goes by the name of “mikeb#s” in his secret online identity).
According to the FBI’s crime stats for 2011, both Phoenix (551 violent crimes/100,000 residents) and Los Angeles (522) are safer than NYC (623). No word on Chicage, which refuses to properly report forcible rapes.
As regular readers of TTAG will recall, this Huffpo piece reported on how the NYPD is systematically under-reporting crime to improve their statistics. So, the Mayor can’t say anything about his city’s crime rate other than it’s much worse than what is being reported.
Sorry, forgot the link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eli-b-silverman/low-crime-rates-nypd-eli-b-silverman-john-a-eterno_b_1772489.html
Ah yes, our wonderful police that are the only ones qualified to properly use a gun – is anyone surprised that it took them killing 9 innocent bystanders before they finally hit the shooter?
i don’t think they killed 9 bystanders. so far as i can tell from the article all the injured bystanders are expected to live.
My bad, they shot 9 innocent bystanders because they don’t know how to use a damn gun.
That it?! That’s the best he has? Because there were no ‘evil black rifles’ or ‘high capacity assault clips’ or ‘deadly .9mm cop-killer hollowpoints’ his reaction is “Shit Happens”? LMAO
That’s the only proper response to any of these events.
My Deep felt statement: Condolences for the victim, their family, and friends.
My Sarcastic NY policy comment: Shooter must have used the super extended assault magazine with a total capacity upwards of 8. Press conference should go like this: ‘We must ban all assault weapon .45 1911 semi autos. Society never envisioned such destructive weapons that used the latest technology design to kill more kids/nuns…what? Moses who? He designed this is the year 1911? What is he the godfather of pistols? Oh he is…[crickets]’
Wow Check your fire NYPD , 9 bystanders hit with stray rounds, so much for protect and serve.
I would hazard a guess the round count from each officer who shot is very high. NYC really does have armed cowboys in the streets and they are called the NYPD.
How could this happen in NYC? Did he have a pistol permit? A NYC license? Why didn’t those rules prevent this?
If there had been any armed citizens we might have one dead bad guy and a whole lot less wounded innocents. Not to say that cops aren’t good shots, but I know a lot of concealed carry holders that are VERY good shots.
It was impressive how The Supreme Dictator of NYC, SuprDickNYC for short, glossed over the wounding of bystanders by his Thugees.
2 NYPD patrolmen wound 9 civvies to put down one bad guy? That’s a more impressive ratio than some air strikes in Afghanistan.
Anyone else old enough to remember Vietnam math?
2 VC + 1 sampan + 3 cows = 17 confirmed kills
i preferred the beer ration math. 2 cans per man. 31 men. equals 60 cases of beer.
That’s gospel, and I’m not even a believer.
RIP
The political reaction from the gun-grabbers and the response by those who are currently not gun owners — recognizing how naked they are to be victimized — will be interesting to watch over the next week if indeed the police are responsible for shooting most of the victims. If the police are mostly responsible for the majority of the victims then I wonder how the MSM and anti-gun politicians will spin this one.
“If the police are mostly responsible for the majority of the victims then I wonder how the MSM and anti-gun politicians will spin this one.”
——
Ignore, suppress, deny. Same as always.
“Imagine how much worse it could’ve been had a concealed carry killer returned fire! He would’ve shot a lot more innocent people than the trained police officers!”
With the pull on those triggers? That would be a strong maybe. 14lb Triggers are insane! It’s a wonder the cops even hit their target.
Had a CC been there (and unfortunately with an illegal normal or lighter trigger pull) He may have put a stop to the shootout sooner with less casualties… then again, with that Po Po and the powers given to them under the authority of Mr Bloomers, he still could have been just as dead as the BG.
Hey, Mayor! Sphincter says WHAT!!!
After last Labor Day’s 71 round shootout I suggested that if this happened in Iraq or Afghanistan the platoon leader would have be relieved of command. If there was a firefight and a lot of innocents got shot the platoon leader would have been charged with anything they could find including littering. I think Mayor B needs to do some soul searching and order that the police department institute a training program that imparts the proper use of firearms and sets a marksmanship requirement to carry a firearm.
Not gonna happen. Somewhere along the line it would be revealed that it is the NY trigger that is responsible for so many pulled shots and that no amount of training will fix that. On top of that, they teach these guys to shoot until empty and reload, continue firing as needed. In a crowded urban area, that is pretty irresponsible–but causualties in police shootings are “acceptable” losses I guess.
I was being sarcastic. Bloomberg doesn’t care if the cops shoot innocent bystanders. As far as he is concerned that’s being collateral damage in a police shootout is just the price of admission for living in “the world’s greatest city.”
Mr Bloomers will just contribute all collateral damages to the shooter, and not the boys in blue. After all, if the shooter had played nice and didn’t use a gun, nobody would have been shot.
Better yet,if the PoPo weren’t crippled with such a heavy trigger (or maybe had DA/SA instead) they wouldn’t have hit so many innocents, and perhaps only hit their target instead.
Great point. Where is the prosecutorial immunity for our troops?
Nine others were hit by gunfire. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said that some of the victims may have been hit by police bullets. The victims are expected to survive.
New York City, the safest big city in the country (for cops)
I wonder how New Yorkers feel knowing that their overlord couldn’t care less that soldiers of his private army wounded and could have killed 9 subjec…er, citizens.
Where the heck is Ralph when you need him!
Can we say class action law suit!!!
I can understand some collateral. I wonder if there is going to be a big cover up now.
The NYPD need normal triggers and more training.
The fact there isn’t more mayhem in the city of over nine million is a feat in and of itself, bogus crime figures aside.
The dwarf does have a big mouth to lie with – the Empire State Building murderer shot and killed one man. Michael Bloomberg’s Gestapo shot several innocent bystanders. How is “his” city safe when his own police officers can’t shoot worth a hoot?
I hope, if I’m ever in another armed encounter with shots fired, (which at that point would make a total of five), that I have the assistance of at least one keyboard commando from this site. Perfection is hard to beat.
Your chances are probably better with one of us than with someone from the NYPD and their 12 lb triggers.
That argument will fall on deaf ears. Certainly the NYPD screwed up, but a 12 – 14 pound trigger definitely sucks. That being said, I’d might actually prefer a TTAG poster with his pet Glock or 1911 with a friggin normal trigger to back me up – hitting that many non – combatants goes well beyond embarrassing and expensive.
I’d like to see a keyboard commando rapid fire an accurate group with an NYPD trigger in a stressful situation. That would really be something.
It would be even better for the NYPD to sack up and demand decent triggers.
That’s a lot of lawsuits. Doctors pull the right caliber slug out of you – you win! For all the reasons given above, you can readily argue the NYPD was negligent.
Comments are closed.