US Army moves ahead with handgun replacement programme – Nothing happens fast in the military. “Entrants are understood to include Beretta’s APX, Ceská zbrojovka’s CZ P-09, FN Herstal’s Five-Seven Mk 2, General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems (GDOTS) and Smith & Wesson’s M&P polymer handgun; the Glock 17 and 22; and Sig Sauer’s P320. However, sources informed IHS Jane’s that the DoD had yet to make a final decision regarding calibre of the MHS, although 9×19 mm and .40 calibre appear to be favourites at the moment. One defence source suggested that .45-calibre weapons appear to have been discounted because of size, weight, and accuracy issues. Most manufacturers are therefore supplying weapon systems in a range of calibres as part of their bids” . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rjszirQES0
Today, GLOCK, Inc. launched the annual GLOCK Safety Pledge Drive with the chance to win a 30th Anniversary pistol by helping to spread the word about firearms safety. Make the pledge on the GLOCK Safety page and earn an entry for a custom engraved 30th Anniversary Pistol. Earn more entries by sharing and spreading the word about firearms safety on the GLOCK Safety Pledge page here https://us.glock.com/safetypledge/.
Why gun reform failed this year in South Carolina – “Last week, the two Democrats pointed to several reasons why: The legislative process, politics, filibusters and gun ideologies, plus other matters — including road funding and ethics reform — overwhelmed the time for legislators this year. Neither chamber ever entertained holding a hearing on the bills that had been filed back in December.” Also because the “gun reform” bills, as The Post and Courier compliantly refers to it, South Carolina Dems were pushing are more accurately described as more gun control.
Classic military vehicles a collecting bargain? – Pro tip: “’I can tell you from experience, never, ever drive through a school zone in a jeep with a .50 caliber machine gun mounted on it.’ That is probably applicable advice for any caliber.”
Record gun sales boost grants to wildlife agencies – “The money can be spent on things ranging from wildlife research and habitat management to hunter recruitment and education training, said Tom Busiahn, chief of the service’s division of policy and programs. In Pennsylvania, the Pennsylvania Game Commission has had its share of Pittman-Robertson funding grow from $7.4 million in 2005 to a record $24.9 million in 2015, said federal grants coordinator Gary Camus.”
“Last week, the two Democrats pointed to several reasons why: The legislative process, politics, filibusters and gun ideologies, plus other matters — including road funding and ethics reform — overwhelmed the time for legislators this year. Neither chamber ever entertained holding a hearing on the bills that had been filed back in December.”
Translation: The constituency was smart enough to not swallow the bullshit you were serving.
They lament the governmental process unless it works in their favor.
Doesn’t everyone?
Can’t imagine how many useless, intrusive laws we’d have if there weren’t a useful, disruptive process to get them passed.
If we vote properly, Congress can almost completely nullify any action proposed by whomever we vote into the oval office after the next election. Don’t want to vote for the next president? Then don’t vote for them, vote for everyone that believes in less government control in order to stop them.
GLOCK safety whut? Nah- the armed forces ain’t goin’ GLOCK.
“Last week, the two” lying Hillary supporters “pointed to several…..”
Fixed it.
MHS makes the F-35 look likes ‘good idea’.
The could choose the F35 for this role too and create lots of jobs.
What’s a GDOTS handgun?
It’s a Smith & Wesson. The two companies have agreed to a partnership for the MHS program – basically Smith will provide the design, and General Dynamics will do most of the manufacturing. Smart move by S&W, really, since GD has a lot of experience knowing whose palms need to be greased to win a military contract.
Had to look it up:
http://aerospace.firetrench.com/2014/11/general-dynamics-ordnance-and-tactical-systems-and-smith-wesson-holding-corp-partner-on-modular-handgun-system/
I so hope the P320 is picked. I will have holsters for days.
The P320 is the best handgun under a grand on the market and the only one left in the running that is actually modular. So just do it already.
“Best” under a grand? You can get some pretty nice guns for that. P-320 is one of the best guns under $600, and it’s modularity, adapatability and cleanability make it an excellent choice for a military sidearm.
It’s basically untested. It hasn’t been widely issued for substantial period of time anywhere. Perhaps some could turn a blind eye to this, but Sig USA had a large number of quality issues over the last 15 years or so.
Other than that, I’m sure it’s fine.
I am a little slow. What do you mean by “I will have holsters for days.”?
I think he’s referring to the fact that if the DoD selects the P320, it will add the it’s appeal, thus creating more sales, and thus creating a greater demand for the accessories.
RUGER AMERICAN
The Pitman money will just get raided. “What do you mean metaphysical lesbian dance painting/pottery poetry class isn’t ‘preserving wildlife?’ Oh, well…”
it won’t in Pennsylvania
I admit to not following it closely, but from everything I’ve heard so far, it really sounds like the whole MHS process has been a festival of pooch-screwing from the jump. They still haven’t even decided what caliber it’s going to be? No wonder they want it modular – that way they can switch calibers a couple years into the program and spend a few hundred million more taxpayer dollars for some negligible, on-paper-but-not-in-real-life benefit.
Frankly, it’s a testament to the people who serve in the armed forces that they even manage to get their boots laced up and leave the barracks in the morning, much less actually prevail in combat situations, under the crushing weight of that bureaucracy.
Since Beretta saddled us with the M9 for all these years they shouldn’t even be allowed to submit a contender.
M9 is a great pistol. They should keep running with them.
The M9 was a great pistol. It is now a great obsolete pistol. It’s time for something polymer.
Polymer is newer, not better.
The M9 has been saddled with traditional military un-think and characteristic levels of support and maintenance. In other words, the M9 is a great pistol the military f*cked up.
So the Army doesn’t know what it wants, can’t make an intelligent decision and is concerned mostly about money.
That sounds exactly like my ex.
Uhhhmmm…
She decided to marry *you*, didn’t she? 🙂
(I’ll be getting my coat, now, and creep away quietly to avoid Mosin fire…)
“She decided to marry *you*, didn’t she?”
No, she didn’t. I said she was my ex, not my ex wife. My ex gf decided that the outrageous alimony she was getting from her ex-husband was more important to her than anything. And then she went after more.
The court didn’t simply deny her additional alimony, it cut her alimony in half. I’m kinda embarrassed to say that I laughed.
June is safety month. But only June.
The Pittman-Robertson tax is one of the only taxes I gladly pay.
I’m up a bit over $200.00 so far this year. Just under $500.00 last year.
Why are you glad to pay it? it unduly burdens you as a consumer of sporting goods.
It’s disgraceful to think that our government spends billions every year to maintain a few roads, comfort stations, and a giant bureaucracy to manage the national parks, which mostly take care of themselves, after all. Old Faithful doesn’t need government handouts to do its thing.
I very much resent the Pittman-Robertson tax.
Say, are you related to Michaels in Oregon?
“Old Faithful doesn’t need government handouts to do its thing.”
I hate to break it to you, but ‘Old Faithful’ isn’t very faithful nowadays:
“Time Trouble for Geyser: It’s No Longer Old Faithful”
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/05/us/time-trouble-for-geyser-it-s-no-longer-old-faithful.html
(But you do have a good point on the tax…)
The Army is considering 9mm and .40, but not .45 due to several issues, one of which is accuracy? If they want an accurate gun, why aren’t they considering .357 Sig? That’s got crazy good velocity and drops about 6 inches at 100 yards. Pretty good for a handgun.
I’m thinking the Army will go with the .40 cal. Call me crazy, but they’ll see that it’s easy to change to 9mm or .357 Sig, making it quite modular.
No, the Army will pass up the .40 once news from the Internet spreads and they learn .40 is a dead caliber.
.9mm FTW
Just what the Army needs, a .9mm mosquito gun, although I’m not sure it would actually be able to kill some of the mosquitoes that infest MN.
The NY ABC station recently ran a story about a rapper shooting claiming he was using a “.09mm automatic.” I don’t think they have editors any more.
They should use a witness 9mm poly. Those are super cheap. Like $280
That’s the retail price for you and me. The discounted military contract price for that $280 pistol would probably only be $900 or so…
Thanks for the laugh! It would be even funnier if it wasn’t true….
The Army’s future pistol is the same as today’s pistol. The Army is already under contract to buy enough M-9s to last at least another 10 years. There is also no money to buy a new handgun. What are they willing to give up to get a sexy new handgun? They just don’t but guns, they buy a logistics tail and a training system. USD/CAPE will kill the program.
And what is this BS that the 45 is out but the 40 is in? If recoil is an issue then why consider the 40? It has worse recoil than the 45ACP.
So basically they’re yanking our chain here. Spending money on a development program they never truly intend to implement. And they wonder why we bitch about wasteful military spending.
I agree that comment about not including the .45 because of accuracy is just a statement by somebody that doesn’t know what they are talking about.
When did .45 start having accuracy issues? I so hope they go .40 or 5.7. Could you imagine the implosion of the internet?
I would love to see them adopt the Five-seveN, just to see the hysteria and pants-wetting that would certainly break out. It would be the funniest thing ever!
It would be worth it just for James Yeager!
Who else???
The Five Seven suffers from problems similar to other full-size pistols: it’s too big for many shooters’ hands because the cartridge is so long.
Also, I have to say that build quality of that and the P90 leave something to be desired. My kids have Fisher-Price toys made with better plastic.
Throw out all the girls and we wouldn’t have to be concerned about hand size, or maybe the Ruger LCP is in the running, just for the “Tampax Contingent”?
As for build quality, the gun has it where it counts, just not in looks.
Way to stay classy there. I have a daughter that’s been talking about joining the Marine Corp since she was 4, she is 12 now.
The Army should just stay with what they got. It’s a waste of money otherwise. Few soldiers carry the M9 as their primary weapon. That’s what a rifle or machine gun is for. F’ the MP’s, I don’t care what they carry. Special Forces will continue to use whatever they please.
The Ruger American and the new Ruger ARX Ammo ought to do everything they want in 9mm and do it with less recoil. For the people being recruited today who have problems shooting the present pistols and 9mm ammunition. But they didn’t submit.
Clay
So, in S C, the political and.legislative processes implemented the citizens’ preference vs. “No guns for you!” our two “common sense” banners wanted.
Here’s a hint. In a representative, republican government, you’ll have a hard time inflicting your agenda on people who prefer something else. Go make your case. Present the argument. Win hearts and minds. Or do what they’ve already mandated. This perennial reshaping of society is ridiculous from people who can’t balance budgets, fix roads, run schools, or understand what their job is, and is not.
You’ll be a lot happier once you realize that your job is to do what the people you “serve” want. If you get stymied, you’re off on your own somewhere, by which I mean wrong.
Let face it in the end the Military handgun will be the Beretta M9A3. I approach this not from a combative view or an internet tactical instructor view, but from a logistics point of view. Now I think there are people who forget to consider a few things if a replacement were to happen. Frist there will have to be a whole new training procedure that will need to be drawn up and tested so some desk clerk will not have accident and put a round into their leg. Next you have all parts that make the pistol work, because everything at one point will break. Then there is the subject of replacement of the X amount holsters. Then of course to save money the military will of course go on something. Let be realistic if the M9 were to be replaced with whatever polymer wonder pistol, it will still be subjected to the same abuse the M9 is currently. It will be used hard and put up wet and treated as an afterthought when it comes it training. People will sill complain that they cant hit the target or it doesn’t fit their hand etc. etc. Then it will only be few years, then the new pistol will start having issues due to hard use and poor maintenance and then were back at square one.
I agree with that, they’re solving the wrong problem. If they’re staying with FMJ, then don’t bother with a new handgun. You don’t need to issue it generally, the training for it is haphazard at best, besides SOCOM and MP/Security, but they’re not going to use MHS anyway, its G19 or whatever they want.
Provide a better bullet, the caliber is fine. Pick a solid HP, heck pick a Lehigh XD/XP, it technically solves the problem with the Hague convention, Its a solid copper bullet. We’re not a signatory, but we act like we are since all of our allies are, so either just accept the limitation and design around it, or screw it and just go with an HP. Does it really matter with ball ammo, at that point its just placement and volume of fire, 9mm is good for both.
You can refurbish the Beretta’s, and for the actual troops that use it, give them training. If not, don’t bother, our transaction price for new M4’s is similar with the new handgun anyway. Those that don’t get training, but get issued HG, just give them a slick M4 Mark 18 CQBR instead, no training on a SBR type platform would at least use a platform from basic at worst, and have a longer sight radius, and they wouldn’t need 4lbs of other crap on it, a la M1 Carbine use case.
Heck, I’d rather them dump general issue handguns altogether and use that money for better integrated ear pro/comms.
Either that, or just do what the Procurement head said, go down to the local sporting goods store and order 750,000 x’s, at the end of the day, they’re still not solving a useful problem.
Yep, because the boys and girls at the Pentagon always make rational, cost-effective procurement decisions, and never waste billions of dollars on unnecessary, overpriced weapons systems *cough* F-35 *cough* Crusader cannon *cough* Comanche *cough*…
BTW, that’s a .30 cal. on that jeep.
.30 cal is perfect for keeping the elementary school kids in line.
Save the .50 BMG for those obnoxious high-school kids… 🙂
I would not be surprised if the Army winds up doing nothing except a lot of posturing and testing with their MHS trials.
That would be a nice job for a couple of years, testing handguns,
Where do I apply?
Kimpson was able to kill an amendment which would have recognized permits from all states regardless of training requirements but failed to kill a bill which granted outright recognition of permits from GA and NC. North Carolina, previously a reciprocity state, has similar training requirements while Georgia does not. The end result is that both GA and SC now recognize each other’s permits (huzzah) and the gun grabbers got nothing.
Somehow I don’t see GA permit holders crossing the state line and causing murder and mayhem. The idea that states with fewer or no training requirements produce reckless gun-carriers is a myth.
That would be great news, since no reciprocity is the reason I don’t visit SC. Problem is, the SLED Web page doesn’t list it and Georgia DPS site doesn’t list it either.
If the disastrous F-35 program is any indication, the DOD will probably pick the wrong weapon at twice the necessary cost. Good luck, soldiers.
There is absolutely no need to replace the Beretta.
The only excuses are to enrich contractors, and thus the officers in the procurement system who will profit by getting jobs when they leave the military, and to accommodate women.
But we all know that they will never change standards to accommodate women in combat, so that can’t be the real reason. And we know that the military procurement system was fixed when they created procurement specialists. But since they created procurement specialists, procurement times have only gotten longer and costs more expensive.
That leaves us with no reasons whatsoever to change pistols.
The Sig P320 has a lot going for it: modularity, DAO with restrike capability, multi-caliber, etc. That is why the ARMY will never adopt it.
They would lose all the grip modification inserts, or not bother ordering any but one type.
n Pennsylvania, the Pennsylvania Game Commission has had its share of Pittman-Robertson funding grow from $7.4 million in 2005 to a record $24.9 million in 2015, said federal grants coordinator Gary Camus.”
As a Pennsylvania hunter, I think that’s great, but they shouldn’t get any revenue from semi-auto rifle and pistol sales until they start allowing these types of firearms for hunting. But there’s probably no simple way to track those funds.
Dear Glock,
I’m not interested in an engraved Glock that I cannot shoot.
Please have a contest where the winner can pick his/her own stock Glock (or several) from your stable, and I’ll be happy to play.
Signed,
The Happy Owner of 2 Glocks
Only replace ones that are worn out
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