SIG SAUER are the guys who make the now infamous pistol arm brace for AR-15 pistols that looks remarkably like a stock. And works kinda like a stock. A really, really crappy stock. Anyway, there has been much chatter on the internet about whether the ATF will get their knickers in a twist about people misusing the arm brace and subsequently change their minds on the legality of the whole thing. Thankfully, the ATF has just released a letter clarifying their position and confirming what we’ve been saying this whole time: the arm brace is here to stay. Thanks to SIG SAUER for sending it along, read it after the break . . .
Dear Sgt. Bradley:
This is in response to your communication dated January 24, 2014, to the Bureau of Alcohol, tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). Your e-mail was forwarded to the ATF Firearms technology Branch (FTB), Martinsburg, West Virginia, for reply. In your note, you ask about firing an AR-15 type pistol from the shoulder; specifically, if doing so would cause the pistol to be reclassified as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR).
For the following reasons, we have determined that firing a pistol from the shoulder would not cause the pistol to be reclassified as an SBR:
FTB classifies weapons based on their physical design characteristics. While the usage/functionality of the weapon does influence the intended design, it is not the sole criteria for determining the classification of a weapon. Generally speaking, we do not classify weapons based on how an individual uses a weapon.
FTB has previously determined (see FTB #99146) that the firing of a weapon from a particular position, such as placing the receiver extention of an AR-15 type pistol on the user’s shoulder, does not change the classification of a weapon. Further, certain firearm accessories such as the SIG stability brace have not been classified by the FTB as shoulder stocks and, therefore, using the brace improperly does not constitute a design change. Using an accessory improperly would not change the classification of a weapon under Federal law. However, the FTB cannot recommend using a weapon (or weapon accessory) in a manner not intended by the manufacturer.
We thank you for your inquiry and trust the foregoing has been responsive.
Ain’t this an April fools joke?…………..Oh, OK it’s the 3rd already…..woo hoo…..
Appreciate the correction. And like others have already said, it might be nice to skip the pictures and in-depth stories about the killer. It’s been pretty persuasively argued that in the nutty subculture of potential spree killers, fame–even posthumous–is a big motivator.
There’s still plenty to talk about with this story. The victims, their families’ travails, and of course the wacky policy of disallowing trained soldiers from carrying arms on base.
The ATF really had no choice in the matter. Either they stick with designed intent or they risk the whole structure coming crashing down. The ATF lost vs Thompson with the contender pistol/rifle combo, changing now on this would very likely lead to another very public “Loss” for them.
You made an honest mistake, with no malice intended, corrected it, and apologized.
Compare that with Spike Jones re-tweet of the wrong George Zimmerman’s address with highly suspect motives.
Something was missing in this video. Watched it twice more. Enjoying it each time but something was missing. Then it came to me !
The redolent call to FIX BAYONETS !!!
That would have added a heck of a stage in the match !
I went through Basic at Ft. Dix with the Garand. Now I have my own glass-bedded National Match, a real sweetheart!
So manufacture a real stock that isnt intended to be used as a stock so we can all use it not as intended.
Seems like this whole “intent” thing is an admission the whole system is based on bullshit but theyre all still too happy to lock you away for violating bullshit.
The ATF would make Kafkas head explode.
The atf has IMO now confirmed that even they don’t feel sbrs are any more dangerous than a ‘normal’ gun.
I had one of these on my pistol until the paperwork came back for the SBR. This gadget is fine as far as it goes, but a proper, fully adjustable stock is worlds better. The tax stamp and wait sucks, but in the end, you get a better gun.
This thing works fine in a pinch, but it’s a bit too short to be really effective and comfortable for a long range session or class.
Have you even been shot by a 9’mm. its pretty damn incapacitating. if my enemy is running after me with a knife there’s no need to kill him even though I have the right to. I would prefer to prosecute him for attempted murder then kill them. I have plastic bullet’s for my FN Five Seven. and just 2 shot’s drooped a local store robber to his knee’s. (Broke 2 of his rib’s.) that was a nice 19.5K reward i collected on. don’t tell me they aren’t effective. cause you are filling me with shit if you say they wont stop an attacker. BTW i live in vermont with no castle laws and no stand your ground’s law. but anyone can conceal carry. Had I actually killed him i could have been in some seriously trouble.
Should have stuck with the 92. At least when our troops use their M9s in no knock raids they’re overseas.
LOL. The meat for the grinders may only be armed when killing for master.
Take a look at KAK Industry. They make a buffer tube with a spacer to work specifically with the SB-15 on AR pistols. Very similar to what Sig uses on their AR pistols.
http://www.kakindustry.com
Sad the carbines are “sold out” at the CMP, but yet almost a million reside in limbo in S. Korea. Some are shot out, but one leetle carbine has my name on it. The ones around here are going for over a grand. 🙁
I’d just rather SBR my AR/AK pistols but that’s just me.
Yeah I file this stock contraption under the category of people who pin a Noveske KX3 on a 13.7″ barrel or those idiotic Spikes Tactical fake suppressors. Like some kid who goes out and gets an M Sport body kit and badges for his 318i. Just functionless crap that makes something look cool (although thats up for debate).
Save the money from buying this gimmick stock and pay the $200 and register it as an SBR. If SBR’s are illegal where you live then just build a 16 inch carbine with a real collapsible stock so you arent married to a pin welded muzzle device and dont have to register your lower. One of the huge points of an SBR is that it can have a suppressor mounted and still be as short as a normal carbine. If you live where SBR’s are illegal supressors are probably niet too so you are just losing performance in order to try and look cool.
If you have enough money to be playing with AR-15’s then you have 200 to spare for a tax stamp. If you think having a lower registered with the ATF is somehow worse than one you bought by giving your SSN, and the serials of the lower to the NICS background check system you are woefully naive, just our brethren in CT.
Call me old fashioned, I just dont get it.
Said it before. Concealed carry in most states will disallow SBRs. Why carry an SBR? Any situation that would require more accuracy.
You were wrong the first time you said it.
Repeating your misinformation doesn’t make it any less incorrect.
> Save the money from buying this gimmick stock…I just don’t get it.
Where this is advantageous is in states that do not allow rifle carry in a vehicle, like Michigan. This gives you a rifle-like legal pistol.
Read the reviews. Apparently they have kept a tight grip on quality control in the PRC. I am sold, buying one this week.
http://www.gunfolks.com/Shotguns/norinco-iac-hawk-982.html
If “Boston Strong” was a success, what would failure have looked like? The terrorists succeeded in their objective, then killed a cop after. The terrorist who died was run over by his brother, who managed to escape… all while Boston was placed under de-facto martial law for an entire day. Can the terrorists and police win at the same time?
I’ve always said when these folks claim expertise, test their knowledge with some questions, then stand back and watch them melt down, call you all sorts of names, and storm off.
Carolyn McCarthy – “it’s that shoulder thing that goes up”
Diana DeGette – once all the high capacity clips are shot up, there will be no more.
Michael Bloomerg – after being informed the fully automatic sound he made was not semi-automatic, “Whatever”
Kevin DeLeon – “thirty caliber clips”
All “experts” who studied this issue closely. Classic stuff.
Once exposed, they lose all credibility. Now with Youtube and the internet, these breathtaking displays of “expertise” can be used to undermine their supposed credibility.
there’s one thing i don’t get. if only the MP’s have guns on base, how exactly are we supposed to repel a surprise spec-op attack, hmm? the first thing they would do is secure the armory and take out the MP’s.
i mean, heeellllllooooo!! a madman can kill dozens of personnel on a military base! that’s pathetic! a team would be devastating.
Perhaps the next Fort Hood (or whereever) shooter should target the Commander’s office. Maybe then these Generals (Ft. Hood Commander included) might reconsider their positions. But then, they probably have a Colt .32 or .380 in their jacket pocket already. Just in case.
I trust myself, my fellow vets, my family, and my friends to know about arms and to know how to use them. I do not truth the so-called experts who often are just sperts.
Dayum, Tyler, you da man!
Reminds me of that old saying, never bring a poodle shooter to a Garand fight.
No way they should get away with that. THey guy yells do it while both of his hands are full of baggage. He drops the bags and turns to run and is shot 3 times in THE BACK by the officer. Thats murder.
respect has to be earned….
Stolen Valor should be the law. Enforcement with a public caning seems appropriate.
resume “enhancement” is a big problem today, let alone the outright lies…
So service people, even the most junior private, is trusted to safely carry a weapon amd ammunition for months at a time while deployed yet can’t be trusted to asfely carry a personal weapon (if they so desire) on military installations. That don’t make a whole lot of sense.
So with this line of though, might the Bible and 1984 be considered “Assault Books”?
It is kind of pathetic that this guy, obviously past his prime, can’t do anything other than spout this kind of stuff, to try to gin up interest in his little radio talk show enterprise.
Oh, well.
“the desire to be more involved in an important event may have affected the behavior of some responders”
This is exactly why police militarization and no-knock warrants will continue unchecked. Every cop is now a wanna-be military SOF “Operator” thanks to the media hyping extremely rare “active shooter” incidents.
So he’s only relying on media reports of athletes making news with a gun to form his opinion of the Second Amendment??? Sure… because every time an athlete goes to the range, is safe and has a good time, it makes the news – and every time an athlete doesn’t shoot himself in the leg at a night club or pistol whip the mother of his children, it makes the news. That’s a profound bit of logic Bob.
He doesnt have a very high opinion of the Athletes he reports on…He might find it hard getting an interview from people he clearly has no respect for.
Former combat vet here, our general officer corps went to crap years ago. If you look at the record of who competed from the military at Camp Perry up through the 60’s and 70’s it was majors, LTCs, COLs. Then the golf courses were built, marksmanship was for enlisted, and along the way being a field grade officer became about what kind of comfy BS defense contractor (or media commentator) job they could get afterward. I know former general officers in charge of large serious organizations who could not lead a puppy out of a wet paper bag. Pathetic.
Talk about living in a media bubble. OK, BOB. It never happens unless the media reports it, right? Like every DGU gets the same air time by the anti-Gun establishment media that a criminal act does? Puh-lease. Total fail. Once again. Always. If you’re going to stay in your bubble, then STFU. Or come out of your bubble and take a look at the real world. But honestly, no one wants to hear your opinion on 2A anyway, so just stick to sports (which actually you suck at too). What an elitist media snob.
I think he nails it in this video at 2:46- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po4nZTO3ES4 His video on 9mm is also pretty spot on.
In Louisiana, we have Conceal and Carry Laws. I can carry everywhere except in bars, schools and college campuses and Churches. I work on a college campus and would like to C & C. However, I not only risk losing my job but being slapped with a heavy fine, charged with a felony and put in jail. I am a woman who believes in the right to OPEN CARRY!
I think that some should and some shouldn’t. Depends if they are violent. I feel a violent felon should never be allowed to own a gun but also believe that some non-violent should be allowed think it should be a case by case decision.
I don’t know guys, I read all the postings above and every one has a good idea about the Sig Brace. But at my advanced ( LOL ) age, I think what I might do is ” just for poop and giggles ” is get a Mini – 14 tactical with a flash suppressor and protected front sight and then go with a folding stock for starters. that would be my base weapon, the bad part is that I don’t know if I can or could get a .22 adapter for it. I looked at the Sig Brace yesterday at the local gun shop ( $12 to $1300 price range ) and yes it looks nice and no I’m not crazy about going SBR for obvious reasons. But then again I probably don’t know what I’m talking about anyway.
Thank you, Obama!
Well, so much for their official approval just rescinded. This is the perfect time for Congress to use this confusion to remove the inept ATF from the burden of these interpretations by eliminating the NFA registry. They will squander this opportunity, of course.
Better update this, its remarkable inaccurate as of this week!
Yeah, this needs to be updated.
This is true, if the above letter is true, there is ALOT of people who have never seen It