BREAKING: CA Modifies SB808 to Outlaw “Ghost Guns”

1. The scary thing is this will probably become “law”. But the good news is registration NEVER leads to confiscation, even in Calif…oh, wait…

   • As you mention, there is NO WAY that this is not registration. The fact that it is only registering home-grown” guns only makes it a stepping stone to the need to register ALL guns.

     And that 1 year/$1,000 dollar crap, that won’t last long, guaranteed.

     And on top of all that, how, by any stretch of any gun-grabbing civil disarmament fevered wet dream is this NOT a violation of the Second Amendment “…shall not be infringed.” clause. Again. Still. Just a little more.

     • NEWS FLASH: As if January 2014 all guns, pistol or long gun are automatically registered in a database in California. Hand guns have been kept in a registry for a few years now, and long guns was the last step.

     • Until the people who should vote that don’t , we are stuck with idiots both in California and wash. DC .

       If it comes down to it everybody is armed to fight against our government if the need should arise.
       Good job , keep the comments coming

       • Are you really niave that you still believe in our voting system? Those bastards lie to their constituancy every day !! What makes you think they are/will telling truth about “our” elected officials? Face it , its the “Party” system thats broken , ie. Dems. and Republicans etc.!!!

2. Fun fact, if you move to California with an arsenal, you have no reason to “register” anything. Why? No “manufacturing” or “commerce” took place.

   • Except (c)

   • Not true. If you are moving to CA with firearms you are considered a personal handgun importer which requires registration of handguns through the DROS system (along with a $19 free for each handgun). I’m not sure if the new long gun registration scheme requires the same now. Previously, newcomers to CA did not have to register their long guns.

     • Also, if you move into California, your handguns must be on the approved list. IF they are not, you must sell them. I believe I am correct on this, had to look it up closely for a friend once.

       • How about people who move north from Mexico with F&F guns?

       • UNLESS you came over the border from Baja with a Federal Cartel Rearmament Aid Program (Formerly known as Fast & Furious) weapon, in which case, you’re fine, so long as you keep voting democrat. Remember, voting Democrat entitles you to a piece of subsidized Federal C.R.A.P.!

       • Any handguns you bring with you do not have to be on the list, they just have to be registered. Though even that is done on the Honor System. Only reason I did it was to not get charged if I ever had to use it to defend myself at home or at work (worked at a shooting range), or if they got stolen.

     • And a $19 government fee required to possess a Second Amendment protected firearm is not a poll tax because…?

       Oh yeah, there are some firearms they ALLOW you to keep without paying the tax. How big is the “prohibited” list now?

   • An unregistered handgun is a felony in CA. I don’t know if the long gun registration has such harsh penalties. But bring a handgun into the state and you have a limited amount of time to inform DOJ. Remember, felonies are forever.

     • Easy, don’t want to be a felon. Don’t move to California. I understand when you already live there how hard it is to up root your live and move. But when it come to moving there they make to choice easy for me and others I’m sure.

     • I researched this before I moved to California in the summer of 2011. I need to update my knowledge for recent legislation.

       As of that time, it was a misdemeanor to fail to register a handgun while moving to California. The statute of limitations on misdemeanors is approximately 3 years, so it’s quite possible to move to California with an unregistered hangun without becoming a felon. A criminal, yes, but not a felon.

       Also, there are MANY legal, unregistered handguns in California. Any handgun purchased before the current registration system was not required to be registered retroactively.

       Carrying a concealed handgun without a CCW permit is a misdemeanor if it is registered to you, and a felony if it is not. Note that this applies regardless of whether or not you own the gun, it is all about registration. Hence, it is a felony if I carry my wife’s pistol. It would also be a felony to carry my own (hypothethical) legally-owned registered pistol.

       I am uncertain about the punishments for openly carrying a firearm simply because I’ve never looked into it. It’s was enough to know that it’s illegal, and obviously if you do it you have a very high chance of getting caught.

   • This is a fantasy scenario. Nobody willingly moves to California anymore.

   • You were already required to register any handguns you move into CA with. I’m not sure if this requirement was included in the 2014-enacted law that requires long guns to be registered or not.

     As Silverman pointed out, as of this year all firearms purchased are registered at the point of sale. Its’ been this way for quite a while with handguns and now long guns.

     Gun registration is pretty well covered in CA now.

     I think the only way now to legally have a non-registered gun is to have bought a long gun prior to Jan 1.

3. 1 day to engrave after being assigned a SN. Well, at least THAT’S realistic….

   At least the penalty is only $1000 and some time in lockup.

   • That’s 1 day to engrave after COMPLETING the firearm. In other words, you apply for the serial number in advance, and then put it on the gun as the last step.

     Reread the text:

     (1) Apply to the Department of Justice for a unique serial number or other mark of identification pursuant to Section 29182.

     (2) Within one day of manufacturing or assembling a firearm in accordance with paragraph (1), the unique serial number or other mark of identification provided by the department shall be engraved or permanently affixed to the firearm […]

4. And crime will not be affected once again. It’s too bad these “legislators don’t focus on things that really matter like job creation.

   • But this “creates” jobs for government thugs – the more things that you make illegal, the more thugs you need to beat, arrest, and execute anyone who commits an imaginary “crime”.

   • To the Progressive politicians that have seized control of the government of California pushing their Liberal agenda and civilian disarmament ARE the important issues.

     You cannot expect them to govern the way you or I or any rational person would govern because their utopian end-goals for statist government are not what we would consider realistic or rational. And as with any fascist utopia they cannot afford to allow the average citizen access to arms with which to mount the final protest.

     • Don’t call those whackos ‘Progressives’, please. There really are some of us around the country who believe the government has a mandate to provide a robust socio-economic safety net in service to its founding mission statement*, and simultaneously believe that the 2nd Amendment is a vital and necessary protection against the infringement of liberty by a government that’s gone from serving the people to wanting the people to serve it. Those idiots in California? They’re not ‘Progressive’, they’re ‘Paranoiac’. They’ve let fear take over, and it rules them. I’d like to vote them out of office, but you know, I’m in New York, so I can’t.

       * – Mission Statement of the Federal Government of the United States of America:
       We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

       • “Promote” most emphatically does NOT mean “provide”. Get it right.

       • Coach: (since I don’t seem to be able to reply directly to your reply, alas)

         That’s certainly an area where civilized people can disagree. But I don’t see a robust socio-economic safety net as simply ‘promoting the general Welfare’. If it were, it’d be the wrong tool for the job. Rather, I see it as one of the many pieces of advancing several of those goals simultaneously.

         Economic study after economic study has shown what common sense already tells us: aid to the poor gets spent. Give a billionaire a dollar, he’s no more or less likely to spend a dollar than he was beforehand. Give that dollar to someone in need, and they’ll try to use it to meet their needs, which puts that dollar in play far more effectively. The stronger the economy is, the better we can sustain our current defense model. The defense model of the 18th and 19th centuries relied on manpower. The defense model of the late 20th and early 21st centuries so far relies on economic power.

         In serving to defray the hardships of economic misfortune, it also helps to try to mitigate the desperation that can often drive otherwise good people into criminal activities, which helps to ensure domestic tranquility, and alleviate the burdens on an already-strained system of justice.

         And keep in mind, there’s a line to be walked between a robust safety net and the nanny state – just as there’s a line to be walked between a strong national defense, and the national security state. The safety net should exist, but it should include mechanisms for spurring people off of it. Very few people, in my experience, like being on the dole, purely as a matter of self respect.

         Is it a perfect solution? Of course not, but so far, nobody’s found one that is.

5. Does an image of a hand giving the middle finger to the state of California qualify as a mark of identification? If not maybe Calvin pissing on California?

6. “…this act creates a new crime or infraction, eliminates a crime or infraction, or changes the penalty for a crime or infraction, within the meaning of Section 17556 of the Government Code, or changes the definition of a crime within the meaning of Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution…”

   Man, they hit the nail on the head there in the most derpy way possible. How does one create a crime? By writing one into law arbitrarily, as they’re doing here apparently. I also learned today that one can eliminate a crime by stating this in a law. Is this common legal-speak?

   No crime has been committed by someone manufacturing a firearm at home because nobody has been wronged or harmed by its simple manufacture or existence. If someone uses a weapon (any weapon) to harm someone, outside of self defense or other extenuating circumstances, that is a crime regardless of whether or not it has been “created” on a document. If the CA legislature decides to “eliminate” the crime of murder, is it no longer a crime? I think not.

   I’m kind of rambling here…but you get my point, yes?

   • duct tape your mouth sir. i don’t want you yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded theatre. you must register the duct tape, and if you make it yourself, it must be registered also.

   • But, they’re just trying to prevent further criminal activity. Because, you know, if someone no longer has the tools for commission of a crime, they will never commit it. They automatically become lovers of teddy bears and unicorns.

     • The Teddy Bears and Unicorns Act of 2014 has a nice ring to it…

     • “If someone no longer has the tools for commission of a crime, they will never commit it” … yea exactly because criminals follow the law. What are you thinking? Educate yourself then come back to us when you have a reasonable dicussion

       • Sarcasm detection fail

       • Matt, look up, a point just flew over your head…

   • Although it isn’t mentioned specifically, this law, if enacted, would automatically make the creation of a 3D printed gun illegal unless you figured out how to affix their gun registration/confiscation number to it somehow.

     • That, at least, would not be difficult. Just engrave it in the plastic or make it part of the print.

   • Maybe we should remove these politicians that are criminalizing citizens, they don’t go after criminals that use guns, we need to get rid of the worthless politicians, send them all a message !!!!!!!!! like in Colorado !! I have been calling and emailing them, and will definitely be voting every time from now on !

7. The sad thing is that making or possessing guns is already illegal in california for felons. This law LITERALLY only affects law abiding citizens. WHERE is the NRA on this? hopefully they will not sit back and say nothing until the day it passes like they did with last renewal of the UFA (undetectable firearms act); there is just no NRA love for home builders…

   • The NRA is a joke and will always be irrelevant.

     • And please tell me how the NRA can effect the outcome? People who think that you can win political battles when don’t have the votes are a few IQ points short of a melon.

     • The NRA can best affect the outcome in California by sponsoring and supporting chamber of commerce ads for Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon and Texas and encouraging pro-gun people to move there.

   • The NRA is to do WHAT? Spend resources on smozzing with the marxist twits in the Ca leg? Sucking up to Gov Moonbeam? Buying TV ads for what goal?

     Might as well suggest going to Moscow to lobby Putin and his gang of KGB thugs. It’s Kalifornia

     • “He who defends everything, defends nothing.”

       Frederick II, King of Prussia

       • Oh, sorta like the DHS.

   • California is to far gone for the NRA to even consider fighting this bill.

     • Even though it seems like a lost fight we cant give up ! If California is allowed to passed oppressive laws with impunity then other states will follow ! We cant give up, we must keep trying.

   • The same place the NRA is on most firearms-related issues: serving the interests of the gun manufacturers, not the gun owners.

8. Keep those idiots away from my state. McCain: youre welcome to go to CA, AZ no longer wants you.

   • Gorbachov retired there, that tells you something.

9. Which now appears to have disappeared…

   • It’s still there, the link just appears to be bad, try this one: http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB808&search_keywords=

10. Awesome another law that creates new criminals out of law abiding citizens. Another layer of obfuscation to complicate something that was already illegal, the act of a felon owning a gun. Nothing is going to stop someone who wants to comit a crime from making an 80% lower into a firearm. They will still do it. Breaking another law won’t dissuade them. But I guess if the libtard lawmakers in CA can put themselves to sleep easier it’s worth it. The problem will resurface the next time someone makes another firearm and uses it to commit a crime. Then it’s back to the drawing board to create another law, that does nothing. Your tax dollars at work CA. Good luck.

    • First, How many lowers of any type have been used in crimes?
      What is the subset of those that were 80%ers?
      It could be that criminal enterprises could start building ARs and AKs and sell them, but they are not the hottest crime gun and sales would only make sense if all ARs and AKs were banned.
      Can you see the sign over some garage. “Deep in the Hood Tool and Die” or maybe “Tool up and Die”.
      Way to go CA and zero in on the major problem
      Rifles 3% of crime use
      AR and AK are subset of that
      80% home builts are minute subset of that
      In any case, I theorize that gangs mostly use ARs to war over turf from other gangs.
      So in the hoods of LA and Chicago, the “wrong hands” are killing the “wrong hands”
      Stay out of stupid places.

    • Exactly. the more laws and restrictions they can impose upon non-criminal, the better for their long term agenda of full confiscation. It’s the perfect soup of lies and deception with every shooting from coast to coast an added ingredient; as they already know that adding more roadblocks will make criminals out of law abiding citizens. They’ve known from the beginning that new gun laws and processes won’t make any real difference overall in decreasing violent crime carried out by criminals. They know…that we know…that they know 😉 So going past this new 2016 crap on the books, as crime continues despite it – just as they want and expect it to; they’ll continue using every shooting, knifing, death by hammer; baseball bat, and drunk driving related death to promote more Fear and Resentment of firearms and those in defence of rights to own them without all this bullshit. They’ll profest and argue that despite registration of “all firearms”, tougher laws, and even compliance; and despite of kicking in 100s of “new criminals” doors, shooting the family dog before taking their guns because of skipping jury duty 30 years ago or an unpaid ticket; hasn’t solved the problem. They’ll cry out to the public about how the same violent crime continues and insist that with the exception of owning (one) single shot musket per household, full confiscation & total gun ban is the only solution. And fools will listen and believe it. phff! Silly Humans.

11. I’m sure that all criminals will obey this law in the same way that they obey all other gun control laws.

    • Exactly

12. If its a “ghost gun” how does the almighty STATE know it exists at all to ban it?

    • Because some tool at some progressive internet “magazine” wrote an article about parties where they make evil black assault rifles like AK-47s. And because of how it made him and other progressives “feel”, now it needs to be illegal. Because no one should be able to do that. Even though there is NO EVIDENCE to support the idea that criminals are engaging in this activity.

    • Because the Gov’t is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, it knows all, sees all, and rules all! But, it’s also broke and needs some cash, so don’t forget to pay your taxes.

    • If they manage to stumble on it accidentally, say an informer at the range spots you putting a few mags through it. Or if you foolishly use it to protect yourself or your home or your family and the investigating officers notice it does not have a confiscation number affixed.

      What are the odds that even in the most righteous and justified shoot you would go to prison for at a minimum manslaughter because you used an “illegal” gun?

13. Californians need to start voting the STUPID out of their legislature! QUICKLY !!

    • Never happen. LA and the Bay Area rule California. The rest of the state may as well not exist.

    • You’re right, but I could say the same thing about New York and a few other states. SAFE act immediately comes to mind.

    • most Californians are THE STUPID, therein lies our problem.

      Then again I guess that could apply to a pretty broad swathe of 60% of Americans in general.

      • Put out the call to all in the remaining Free States, fortify your state constitutions against overreach of state power, against threats to all basic, human rights including firearms ownership, and PROTECT your educational system against progressive indoctrination as best you can. We are moving from California to your states in droves, at the moment the exodus might be mostly right leaning conservative or pro liberty types, but it won’t be long before THE STUPID voters follow out of necessity.

    • Sadly, the ones voting are getting all of the benefits. Ie: welfare and unemployment benefits. The illegals are now paid to come here and get more by staying. Ignorance grown on trees out here. One day I want to move back to America.

14. Thank God for Cosmoline and shovels, right?

    • Wrong. If you have to bury your guns, it’s too fscking late and you’ve already lost without firing a shot.

    • If it’s time to bury your guns, it’s long past time to dig them up.

15. No infringement here! Now, move along peasants!

16. Hence why I refuse to take a job offer, no matter how good, in California or New York. I will be voting with my tax dollars.

    • Says the fellow from Connecticut.

    • I was offered a sizable bonus and pay raise as incentive to transfer to the San Fran district about two years ago…

      I literally laughed in my boss’s face and said,” If I told you how much money it would take to get me to move to Cali, you would be laughing in my face…”

      He didn’t find the notion as humorous as I did, but it got my point across, I guess.

17. Nothing like statist a$$holes making laws specifically targeted against gun owners and law abiding citizens.

    • To statist a$$holes gun owners ARE the enemy to fear, and the enemies they fear the most. Remember, only the peasants need to fear armed criminals, the statist elites have armed security and walled communities.

      Their only real fear is armed political opposition because unless they successfully pass laws that turn THAT into a crime they are not allowed to let their armed security thugs shoot them.

18. Not to worry, I have absolutely ZERO 30 caliber clip magazines. Go piss up a rope DeLeon!

19. So glad I don’t live in California. I don’t care how nice the weather is, it’s not worth this crap.

    • OK. It’s too crowded anyway.

      • Not so much as before. If I am not mistaken (has happened) I believe they have a net loss in population over the last decade. If not for a steady stream of illegals they would whither away to insignificance by bleeding out disgusted populations.

    • It’s 70 degrees in January and not even in southern California, and I’m STILL moving away in the next year.

20. CA should make it a crime for uninformed legislators to make laws that break existing laws…..

    ….wait…that would wipe out the entire state legislators:-)

21. I wonder how this will affect unaware gun owners in California who have a pre-’68 .22 rifle socked away in a closet or safe. Many of these were manufactured without serial numbers, or is this somehow excluded under the statutes referenced in (c)?

    • How about organizing all those Quackenbush and Davenport owners to flood their system with requests on opening day? With lots of news coverage.

22. The law is what they say it is, we don’t need to know it.

23. In Wisconsin, we don’t register guns so there is no advantage for the government to have a serial number on a gun they don’t know about.
    In CA it will only become useful to keep track of gun confiscated.

    • Let’s call a spade a spade here – these are not “serial numbers” because the only place they are serialized is in the government’s registry. And they are not registration numbers unless you complete the build and take the finished product to some official location to have it registered.

      What these are, plain and simple, are “Confiscation Numbers” whose sole purpose is to make it easier for the government squads to locate you and your “ghost gun” when the time comes to take it and you into custody.

      These numbers on your newly minted gun are as useful to you and any other law-abiding citizen as numbers tattooed on the forearm were to European Jewry.

      Or has it been missed that the Nazis did not also tattoo the non-Jews to keep track of them?

24. AS someone above correctly observed, it is already illegal for felons to have weapons, registered or not, homemade or not. And thus this bill will only affect people who lawfully possess semiautomatic rifles already, most of which are not registered, thus making law abiding citizens into criminals if they do not register their ARs and AKS. The point of this law is registration, and ultimately banning of semiauto rifles.

25. The solution to the California situation is clear. Don’t move to California. Don’t visit California. Don’t buy anything from California. If the earthquakes can’t set the state adrift from the rest of the continental United States the let the sane people of the country do it

26. ‘effing pathetic…another reason why I hate this state. Make criminals out of law abiding, tax paying citizens. Disgusting.

27. on what planet is this not, at a minimum, ex post facto?

28. something needs ghosted and it aint the gun

29. as both a free American and as a badge, the phrase “in a manner prescribed by the department” really, really gives me the willies.

    well, that plus the whole rest of the bill. but that phrase is open to a lot of really negative interpretation and abuse. and as stated before by at least one guy, there is a reason I don’t have ANYTHING to do with the left coast.

30. I guess I’ll have to register my squirt gun, pop gun, spit ball gun, bubble gun, marshmallow gun, cap gun, paint gun, caulking gun, air gun, BB gun, dart gun, nail gun, airsoft gun, grease gun, blow gun, toy gun, paper gun and pop tart shaped gun

31. If AZ’s SB1070 was the egregious violation of the Supremacy Clause that AG Holder said it was, this is a complete repudiation of the 2nd-Amendment’s protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, and the regulation of firearms manufacture by BATFE.

    • “…the regulation of firearms manufacture by BATFE.”

      Which is ALSO a violation of the Second Amendment, the point of which was to prevent the government from having any ability to infringe on the individual right to keep and bear arms in order that the people could form militias and overthrow a tyrannical government, which they could NOT do if that government had control over their arms, or even the process of manufacturing arms.

      There are many very good reasons why the Founders stated the Second Amendment as an ABSOLUTE prohibition against government infringement.

32. If you’re in the Northeast, you can bet this great idea is coming to a state near you, soon…

    • Aww, PLEASE don’t give those imbeciles another idea.

    • Won’t happen in NY. Too many gun manufacturers upstate. There’s a reason the difficult to buy weapons here are all handguns, you know. NYC’s another story – but most of the really draconian measures were Guiliani’s work – same guy who tried to make it illegal for private citizens to congregate on the steps of City Hall.

      Really, disarmament of the populace isn’t a (R) or (D) issue, though I know it seems like it sometimes – it’s an authoritarian vs libertarian (not necessarily the political party, mind you) issue. Owning a gun is a Constitutionally-protected right, and far too many people here on the left side of the political spectrum seem to forget how important that is. MLK knew: he applied for a concealed carry permit. Heck, the great guru of passive resistance himself, Mohandis Gandhi, was quoted as saying “If the choice were between violence and cowardice, I would advise violence.”

      Nonviolent solutions are always the more civilized, preferable ones – provided they are real solutions. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t problems that will, from time to time, require a violent solution, and the Framers were smart enough to give us the means and the legal footing to retain that option. We just have to be willing to make the argument to others without driving them into the authoritarian camp by coming off like crazies.

33. Sure didn’t take them long.

34. To many anti American Foreigners in government leads to the dismantling of the United States from within. Prejudice? Damn right it is…

    • I think we should just say the Hell with it and give the southern half of California back to Mexico, they’ve already occupied the space.

35. CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
    ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

    SEC. 9. A bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing
    the obligation of contracts may not be passed.

    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_1

    Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3.

    United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-post_facto_law

36. Maybe the Mexicans will stage a military “exercise” next to the US/Mexico border, and suddenly have millions of Mexicans say they want “their” states to join Mexicao…Like Vladmir Putin is doing in Ukraine.

    Supposedly a bunch of “Russians” live in Ukrain and want to “return” to being a “Russian” Country.

    What is going to stop Mexico from doing the same thing as Russia?

    Food for thought.

37. http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec9.html

38. Vote, Tim Donnelly for Governor and you won’t have any problems with ridiculous laws being passed.

39. How can they go after what they do not know exists? This is a scare tactic to get sheep to register what couldn’t be found. The bay area, and some feel good idiots that represent hollywood are the problem.

    NOBODY i’ve talked to about it, not even the staunchest full retard liberals are for the registration, or banning of scary black pistol gripped weapons.

    Like somebody said, the law is whatever they want it to be at the moment…we dont need to even know.

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