“[Dylann] Roof turned 21 in April, and a short time later he had a gun,” cnn.com reports. “On Thursday, investigators did a trace of the handgun used in Wednesday’s shooting and determined that it was a .45-caliber handgun Roof purchased from a Charleston gun store in April, two law enforcement officials told CNN. His grandfather says Roof was given ‘birthday money’ and that the family didn’t know what he did with it.” Well now we know . . .
We also know Roof passed a Brady Bill background check. Which just goes to show that background checks are nothing more than feel-good security theater. In case you didn’t know already.
I’m shocked!
New law, and question on gun purchase application….Do you receive birthday money for guns____Yes____No?
More like: Do you intend to use this firearm in the commission of a mass shooting or other criminal activity? Y___ or N___
Yeah, this is bad news for the “dancing in the blood” leftists – no “gun show loophole” was involved.
I wouldn’t be crowing in glee about this. It will just be seen as evidence that the Brady program is flawed. Your fix might be to ditch it, but i’ll bet the other side uses it as proof that there is not enough regulation and more is needed.
Background checks aren’t being done right, so we should make them required for more transactions……
Not only more of them, but more of them more often!
The background check failed?
I guess we need background checks on the background checkers, to make sure the background checker’s background checks out before they can check backgrounds.
Well put!
Ya, even if there was a 70 year waiting period, the (“a”) geezer could (not run, but maybe hover round) out of the gun store and go shoot someone. If the gun store had a 350 year waiting period, the younger version of the aforesaid ‘geezer’ would just BUY ONE ON THE BLACK MARKET THAT WOULD BE CREATED BY THE BAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YA KNOW????? JUST LIKE (ONE OF) THE STUPID ARGUMENT(S) FOR THE LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA? YOU F-ING A_ _ HOLES.
Sorry, I’m a bitter-clinger.
ironic given the deceased were at Bible study
Forgive my ignorance, but how is that ironic?
Clings to his guns, and religion.
or, did what the columbine shooters did, just make some pipe bombs. Ya know, the part that antis like to leave out, because they can’t possibly fathom, let alone accept, the idea that people are responsible for their own actions, not the tools they use.
^ ABSOLUTELY TRUE
The only thing keeping people from going Lowe’s/Home Depot – Task Force Troy on them, is the bad guys’ immediate patch of laziness.
Boston Marathon Bomber went Betty Crocker on them, but sh_t, ban guns because they can limit a bad guy’s expiration date if more people have them. It’d have to get pretty tough out there (worse than ‘Escape From New York’) before people started carrying PD versions of pressure cookers. F-ing DUH!
I can hear the arguments already… “But it wasn’t a universal background check.”
The question is will this help or hurt the gun rights cause.
Huh? “Universal” simply means that a background check is performed (or actually, “required”) for every transfer; it does not change the nature of the background check at all. In this case, a background check was performed, and unless and until someone comes up with evidence that the background check failed to discover a prohibiting condition (such as a mental health commitment or disqualifying conviction), then no, there is nothing in this case that will support a call for “stronger” background checks. I suspect, given comments by friends and family, that this is the one and only crime this guy ever committed. So the only narrative that it could support is a total gun ban, since none of us can be trusted not to go postal. Even though the vast majority of us don’t. The rule of criminal law is that “it is better than nine guilty men go free than that one innocent man be convicted” (as if); the gun ban narrative is that “it is better that nine law-abiding citizens be precluded from owning handguns than that one criminal psychopath will go on a killing rampage.” Which is a restatement of “if it saves just one life…”
You honestly expect antis to be able to make that distinction? It requires basic critical thinking, something they don’t possess. All they hear are buzzwords. They’re statist parrots.
That was the direction i was going in with my snarky comment.
“So the only narrative that it could support is a total gun ban, since none of us can be trusted not to go postal.”
This must be highlighted. It is the only logical take away from the anti-gun crowd’s continuing piecemeal infringement efforts when background checks prove ineffective.
It is, of course, the antis end game.
It is basically already the case with all the news stories. Either they just argue in favor of some generic, unspecified “better gun control” (without naming a single thing that they think would have prevented this, specifically), or they go full retard. An example of the latter:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/the-charleston-massacre-shows-us-why-america-needs-better-gun-control-laws/ar-AAbNUok
They specifically call out Japan, UK and Australia as countries worth emulating – while pointing out that Japan has “all but banned guns”. So there.
He was actually pending adjudication for a felony drug arrest and a misdemeanor trespass arrest. He had committed crimes before – just wasn’t a “convict”.
Great. I turned 21 and a few days later had a handgun, so have a lot of people I know. If someone out there thinks that they will get impetus from this to change age ownership of handguns, they are wrong.
Why can’t people grasp the concept of statistical anomalies. This sick young man is not like the rest of people, he’s not even close to the rest of people. If you could break him down into numbers he would probably be beyond 3 standard deviations from normal.
Yet people think they can put him face up as an example for all of us.
>>This sick young man is not like the rest of people, he’s not even close to the rest of people.<<
That sick young man was likely "mentally programmed" by all of the non-stop gun violence in TV shows, movies and video games combined with various prescribed drugs. The violence is everywhere in the "make believe" world yet people are stunned and confused when it is imitated in the real world.
Yes! If only they didn’t let Hitler play violent video games, WW2 could have been avoided!
Ban violent video games NOW!
Hitler was a megalomaniacal power hungry narcissist, not a hands-on psychopath murdering Jews himself. I think there is something to be said about an unsound mind becoming inured to the sight of blood and gore in video games and due to a broken moral compass, a drug addled brain, and environmental conditioning (father figure spouting racist rhetoric) he tripped the light fantastic and enacted his blackest fantasy. Doesn’t necessarily mean we should ban video games, but societally we can damn sure do a better job raising moral children. Most of us that read and comment here probably are… but we are a minority of the population demographic.
I hate to say it, but anyone can lose thier shit at anytime. A totally normal person can have a mental break down at any point in thier life. This individual just happened to choose a gun. What if he used an axe, would we put restrictions on who can buy an axe. Guns dont kill. People kill. The human mind will never be understood.
I disagree that anyone can snap at any time.
Most people don’t go off at random for zero reason. Usually there is a reason and I suspect if the potential penalties weren’t so large, more people would seek professional help earlier.
For the true nut jobs, that are randomly detonating time bombs, well, that’s the other part of the question … With the same need to manage the repercussions of treatment.
But we do agree that the problem is the person, not the tool.
agree. he didn’t just snap. people blew off his decline. . . .
His issues were evident on his social media profiles. Marching around with an old RSA & Rhodesian flag isn’t exactly the statistical norm.
This little cretin didn’t snap. He planned this over a long period of time and then sat with these poor souls for an hour before killing them. This kid isn’t a mental case, he’s evil and as such he should fry for this crime.
A friend of mine asked, “What’s missing here?”
My response, “A soul.”
. . . and some ball fur (may all your defensive wounds only be point-blank, and St. Peter ask you to please take your hands off of the other persons throat).
What you’re describing is, in fact, extremely rare, and to rely on it for public policy would be to ignore over 100 years of criminology. It’s an article of faith among the gun control crowd that crime happens when a previously decent, honest, armed person “snaps.” The reality is that we see the same faces again and again passing through the criminal justice system, and almost always their criminal careers have deep roots in early social dysfunction.
The Cook County, Illinois jail estimates that 25% to 30% of its inmates are there as a result of misbehavior caused by mental illness. The warden made the observation that the people objected to confining the mentally ill in mental hospitals have no problem with confining them in prisons where they have little chance for treatment.
Yes, anyone can have a meltdown. Shooting up a church goes beyond that. To do it, you have to be several standard deviations off normal.
I thought he was a felon. How did he pass a Background check?
Beat me to it. Not convicted but he was up on charges anyway.
Looks like that happened in february. Maybe it hadn’t made it into the databases yet? Just goes to show how useless our background check system is. Expanding it would just be making a failed program even larger and more intrusive.
Maybe they should learn to enter felony indictments into databases right away instead of seeking news laws.
Only convictions go into the database. Innocent until proven guilty, right?
Is one allowed to buy a gun while under indictment?
If that is the case then it is amazing how a domestic violence arrest (not conviction) or a restraining order can immediately halt your eligibility but not pending drug charges.
If he was, in fact, not eligible as some reports say and the dad bought the gun then he should be next in line at the jail for a court hearing.
>> If that is the case then it is amazing how a domestic violence arrest (not conviction) or a restraining order can immediately halt your eligibility but not pending drug charges.
My understanding is that either will make you ineligible; the issue, rather, is that the system won’t be able to detect that.
No, you can’t legally buy a gun while under indictment.
From From 4473
“Are you under indictment or information in any court for a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could imprison you for more than one year?”
That’s my understanding as well. This Fox report claims his Father bought him the gun as a BD present which was then taken by his Mother because she felt he should not have a gun.. He then “stole” the gun and we know the rest. I don’t know if the parents were separated or what. Seems curious that the father would buy him a gun in light of the mother’s view of her son’s stability.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/06/friend-dylann-storm-roof-took-gun-from-his-mom-she-didnt-trust-him-with-it-video/
This one and the story the uncle tells that he got it for his birthday both rely on the killer’s own statements.
He killed nine people, but he would never lie about his gun?
This is my thought as well. All reports I have seen previous to this have said he was on pending drug charges, for Rx drugs that weren’t his, and that his father bought the gun for him.
Did a family member misreport how he got the gun, or is the story changing to take the heat off the family?
The family member may have been honestly telling us what the murderer said. That doesn’t mean the murderer was honest with his uncle.
The most unjust part is that we’ll now pay millions of dollars to push this dirtbag through our justice system. Far more than the victims will ever get.
Are you saying that rule of law and due process is “unjust”?
Piffle. A mere trifle, I say.
In order to fix this, we need to make the same background check that failed here required for all transfers. QED.
It’s simple, really.
This skinny racist pr1ck passed a background check? The little fairy who did the Isla Vista killings passed a background check. The orange-haired squirrel who shot up the theater in Aurora passed a background check. The grinning bastard who blew Gabby Giffords’ brains out passed a background check.
I think a ham sandwich would have no trouble passing a background check. Unless there’s a convicted felon out there with the same name.
Don’t forget the Navy Yard shooter, who passed a background check, held a security clearance, and was allowed onto a “secure” military facility armed despite having called the police himself and given them his best “aliens are stealing my thoughts” speech.
You make a good point, proving that a ham sandwich can indeed pass a background check.
It’s weird you mention ham sandwich.
I’m thinking of voting ham sandwich for President, given all of the alternatives. Seems safest.
At this time, we know little about Dylann Roof. It won’t surprise me to learn that he was is like James Holmes, Jared Loughner and Seung-Hui Cho, a time bomb with a well known history of misbehavior.
This little dipshit’s roommate claims to have known he was going to do this for six months. I’m pretty sure knowing and sitting on the information for half a year should make him a co-conspirator…
Based on what they found on his Facebook page alone, we pretty much already know it’s true.
The important statistic: 316 million people did not murder anyone yesterday and never have and never will.
+1
I bought a pistol shortly after turning 21 in 1980. It was a satin nickel Colt Combat Commander. I used my Army enlistment bonus. I wish I still had it.
Not to go off topic, but i had a CCC also in satin nickel, sold it 1.5 yrs ago to fund my first AR build. Guy that bought it said that the Colt CC completed his collection of Colt 1911s, which he showed me… Sure do miss it, but no regrets…. Serial # 70N……, something along those lines… Take care.
Interesting that the NRA school shooting prevention paper that came out after Sandy Hook talked about regular school staff meetings to identify at risk kids, with teachers, resource officers, counsellors, etc all teamed up to watch for and discuss warning signs in children before they go off.
But all the antis and the media could talk about was “armed teachers”
I wonder what video game he played that morning?
Probably Candy Crush.
+1. Game is about destruction of innocent candy and sweets. When will we learn that violence in video games isn’t worth the terrible price? /s
Two things. #1: Don’t give this prick the publicity he wanted (probably), and #2: As it’s been said a million times before, you can try your best to prevent evil, but you will never truly stop it. The best you can do is defend against it.
So much this.
Most of these spree killers want the media attention, that is what they crave. Their names plastered in the headlines. Investigative stories about what was on their minds, what their lives were like, and how they did it. And the media gleefully gives it to them.
If only this completely ineffective policy was made universal, then we’d all be safe.
I just realized, I’m saddened by the fact that when I write a sarcastic and satirical comment, it actually is extremely similar to what antis actually believe. My God, they’re stupid.
This is going to get media lip service for a while and then go away, just like all the others. It just isn’t juicy enough.
I’m seeing that he used a wheelgun and reloaded 5 times. If so, was it a high-capacity Glock AR-47 assault revolver?
It is also rumored that the gun used is a .45 of some sort… If it is confirmed that a .45 caliber wheelgun was used, that would narrow the gun model down to S&W 625 (or variant) , Colt SAA (or variant), Colt 1917 (?)…. In which case reloading 5 times would be an ardous, tedious and time consuming task, since moonclips would have to be used (S&W n Colt 1917), or even more so, the SAA, ejecting spent casings first, one at a time, reloading fresh cartridges one at a time…. Hmmmm.
No check of any kind will stop a person from doing an act IN THE FUTURE, which is what this kid did.
He was clean during the application.
The MSM have been and will be obsessed with calling this a “hate crime” as if this twerp were the Grand Dragon of the KKK. Tragic fact is that his lunacy (I did not say insanity) manifested itself in racial hate; while Cho, Holmes, and the other loons had other manifestations with same outcome. The picture of this type of person is alarmingly consistent, but almost never discussed by the media as it continues to deny the obvious and propagandize the rest. On the other hand, I read an article today about the woman who saw him in his car and realized who he was, ultimately resulting in his capture. She credits it to God — I credit it to situational awareness while driving.
Damn, lost my comment… Shorter version is….
He passed a background check by LYING . On Form 4473, he committed multiple felonies by lying on question 11. This proves that the background checks are useless and are more-or-less the “honor system”. When he went to purchase the gun, he had already been indicted (but not tried) for federal felony drug charges, and his friends/family have acknowledged he was a pill popper
Form 4473: question 11b: Are you under indictment or information in any court for a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could imprison you for more than one year?
Criminal LIED on the form by answering No. The NICS check cannot possibly up-to-date in real time.
Form 4473, question 11e: Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Criminal LIED again by answering no. Do you see where this is basically the honor system? Also, a violation of 5th Amendment rights? (requires buyer to incriminate one’s self) What’s the point? Obviously not preventing violence.
Criminal LIED on the form by answering No. The NICS check cannot possibly up-to-date in real time.
If the information is true that he was indicted in February and he purchased the weapon in April than YES I will pin the blame ENTIRELY on LAZY AND INEPT GOVERNMENT that the database wasn’t accurate. There is absolutely no technical reason that an indictment signed (electronically) by a judge or whoever on Feb 1,2015 at 12:00 doesn’t translate to a NICS denial at 12:01
What with the untold billions spent on law enforcement and spiffy NSA technology, I certainly expect it could be updated in the time it takes him to make bail and hoof it on down to the gun store.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/politics/lindsey-graham-dylann-roof-confederate-flag-gun/index.html
After acknowledging approximately 40,000 people failed a background check and 9,000 of them were felons, Graham questioned as to how people are added to a background system that simply does not work for the American people. “The solutions to problems like this are probably not one law away,” he added.
[South Carolina Sen. Lindsey] Graham said he believes the reason why people are able to obtain guns even with a criminal backgrounds are due to a lack of resources.
“If I get to be President of the United States, you fail a criminal background check, you try to buy a gun when you’re not supposed to, you’re going to meet the law head on,” Graham said.
So, background checks and gun free zones scare away criminals and prevent crimes???
when i see a story like this and they say “he passed a background check” it scares me. it scares me that people will use this as leverage to say “see even background checks don’t work, we just need to outlaw guns” it seems that instances like this one bolster that agenda. then again the anti’s arent the brightest bunch either so i doubt they will make that connection.
The unfortunate thing is, and I’m sure this has been mentioned above, that the fact that this garbage pile passed a background check, thus proving that they’re useless, could–and will–easily be turned into an argument that even more stringent controls are required.
Because, as always, more roadblocks will definitely stop people determined to commit crimes. For sure.
Yeah, that seems like a pretty obvious next step to me.
Keep talking about how worthless NICS is, guys. Next thing you know we will be subject to a process similar to NFA to buy any gun at all, up to and including required interviews and psych evals.
The DAY I turned 21 I purchased three handguns with money I worked my butt off for. When I turned 55 I sold them for ten times what I paid for them. So, there.
It is ludicrous to speak against the Constitutional Rights for all due to one persons choice.
If a guy still has a bowl haircut after 16, he wont be the most sane person.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/06/18/charleston-massacre-suspect-was-not-allowed-to-buy-a-firearm-so-how-did-he-get-one-recently/
Ummm… all these ads, and the big flashy headline with Roof licking his lips like a crazy person, for 2 paragraphs of information? Wow, thanks for the in depth click bait… oh sorry I meant article?
I say if the background check didn’t work, they need to figure out why that is and fix the system.
I still prefer background checks (BUT since the current system is also a de facto gun registry, I am not for them until they get rid of the tracking of guns). Felons don’t deserve guns until they prove to society that they can have them again. I prefer a period of 6 years time where they don’t break any laws, not even so much as a speeding ticket. If they can prove they’ve changed as a result of their felony conviction and time served, over the course of 6 years, then they can have their guns back.
Why? Because the crime repeat rate for felons is ridiculously high. FBI stats say 73% over a period of 6 years will commit another crime. (Sounds like the penal/prison system needs fixing.)
This article is BULLSHIT. We already know that his father gave him the actual gun, not “birthday money.” This is a sad attempt by the media to make us all think it was easy for this nutcase to go into a gun shop and buy a gun. This is really a sad attempt, but I am now seeing this article all over. Some faction of morons is spreading this lie all over the news, in an attempt to spur the public into a “gun-control” frenzy.
And FYI I’m for getting rid of the NFA and ATF and every other gun regulation EXCEPT background checks. So don’t try to go trolling as if I’m some hippie liberal or something.
Here is a list of mass murders around the world. Only 15 are listed in each category. Obviously the list is not comprehensive but it is enough to prove that no society is immune from crazy people and that a firearm is not required to kill a lot of people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers
I forgot to mention in the previous post that many reports say the shooter was arrested in possession of suboxone. Suboxone is a Class C schedule 3 controled substance. Possession of suboxone carries a sentence of up to two years in prison.
Media reports are so sketchy that at the moment I do not know if the shooter was convicted of possession of suboxone. If the shooter was indeed convicted of possession of suboxone he could not legally buy or possess a firearm. But the media would not report the fact that the shooter was a felon and the current law failed to prevent him from getting a firearm. Just like the media doesn’t care to point out that the Sandy Hook killer had to kill his own mother to gain possession of firearms.
Here is a CNN article stating the shooter was indeed arrested with suboxone at a mall in Columbia SC in Feb of 2015. The article does not say if he was convicted of possession of a schedule three controlled substance.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/health/suboxone/index.html
*Suboxone* should NOT be illegal. A possible FELONY? There’s an injustice.
BTW: When are we going to stop using these people’s real names — that is what they want — we need to take the lead.
NYT is now publicizing the shooters “Manifesto”. His prayers are answered.
I support gun rights and I own more than 30 guns, but this article is simply stupid. Just because one guy passed background check and then commited a crime, it doesn’t mean background check is useless.
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