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Following statements and prayers by local pastors after last night’s burning and looting, James Knowles, mayor of Ferguson, Missouri criticized Governor Jay Nixon’s response (or lack thereof) to the violence. Specifically, he wanted to know where the hell the National Guard was while “protesters” ran amok, torching local businesses and stealing whatever wasn’t nailed down. The mayor also noted that Officer Darren Wilson’s status with the city remains unchanged. He is still on paid administrative leave pending an internal investigation. Unspoken was the fact that . . .

there’s no way that Wilson, as a practical matter, can ever return to his job as a police officer in Ferguson. In fact, it’s an open question as to whether he can continue to live anywhere in the St. Louis area without putting his safety at risk and that of his family.

Update: Governor Nixon, letting everyone know he has a firm grasp on the situation has pledged to have 2200 Guardsmen on the streets of Ferguson tonight. Presumably to protect the smoldering ruins. Will that mean bad actors shift their efforts to other parts of the city. Time will tell.

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95 COMMENTS

  1. I read somewhere that pro protestors were offering a $5000 reward for the affirmative location of Wilson.

    No. He is not safe.

    • Apparently someone has crowd-funded Wilson funds to relocate him and his family to the tune of about 500 thou.

    • He should run for office. Once elected his safety is 24 hours a day just like the other lawmakers. Of course the bigger question is where will he live?
      Now he knows what GZ went through. You take a life to save your own and your barely better off because of it.

    • So exactly how are they doing that? I might have his exact location and be willing to share it. (of course, Officer Wilson won’t be there but a large group of his friends will be)

  2. I bet the governor was talked out of using the national guard by Obama. He should have said sure Obama, whatever you say. Then send the national guard anyway.

  3. I was watching reporting on the riots on Fox earlier, there was insinuation that Nixon was ordered from on high (meaning Holder) not to deploy the National Guard for fear of “escalating” the situation. I don’t know if this has been confirmed yet, but it’s no secret that Holder was upset that Nixon activated the Guard last week.

    • Holder has no authority to “order” Nixon to do anything. Nixon is the ultimate Commander In Chief of his state’s National Guard unless they are federalized. Though I’m sure the arm twisting was severe.

  5. Anderson Cooper on CNN kept asking, “Where are the firefighters? I can’t see anyone trying to put out the fires. Must not have enough personnel to fight all these fires.” Someone FINALLY told Mr. Cooper that the fire dept was waiting for the SHOOTING to stop. I felt bad for the reporters out in the streets risking getting shot, breathing tear gas, and being in harms way just to report the “the story”.

    • Something that lots of people don’t understand is how expensive fire equipment is.

      A fairly typical 1,000 gallon structure engine will run $300K and up. Punch a bunch of holes in a fire engine and that piece of equipment is out of service – and there will be fires and EMT responses needed after the riots, too. Firefighters have to balance an issue of putting equipment at risk for a job they can’t/won’t be able to accomplish (ie, put out fires when the arsonists are still running loose) vs. the ability to serve the public on later jobs in an instance like this.

        • That’s obviously an issue as well.

          The other issue is that unless the gunfire is close at hand, under all the bunker gear, with the noise of water, hoses, trucks, the fire itself… you can’t hear much of anything if it isn’t right on top of you, so the FD was probably not even aware of the local threat – ie, firefighters often have bad situational awareness of something like a shooter near them. The cops probably radio’ed the FD to tell them the area was subject to gunfire and then advised a pull out.

          People who get around firefighters are often amazed at how loud their radios are and how high the firefighters have them turned up. To a firefighter, that blaring radio often isn’t easily heard.

    • I don’t feel bad for the reporters. These are the same people who call us gounowners names and belittle our rights. It would be nice if a few of them learned anything from getting beaned with a bottle or a little teargas. But I doubt it.

  6. If he is lucky, he will get the “Zimmerman Treatment” for the rest of his days. I doubt he will ever be able to return to being an LEO or anything that involves dealing with the general public.

    • I hope the poor bastard doesn’t get the “Zimmerman treatment”, but even more, I hope he doesn’t turn out to be a 200-lb sack of bad judgment like Zimmerman did.

      • Ditto. I’m a bit concerned because Wilson did a TV interview, which does not say much for his political savvy. OTOH, he’s got a good way to go before he can match Zimmerman.

    • There have been officers who have been found guilty of worse still get hired in the next county over.

  7. What did he expect them to do? People seem to think uniforms grant special powers or something.
    Was the NG supposed to start shooting people? Dropping pallets of supplies on them? Were their numbers and equipment great enough to barricade entire sections of the city?

    What did the mayor expect? Have him put a costume on and try to hold a proportionally lopsided force at bay and see how long he lasts.

    Law and order as maintained by a few cops and a couple of guys in costumes is a fantasy. Without the will to use overwhelming force against the mob the mob will do whatever the mob wants. Did the mayor want to go on record asking the NG to shoot protestors? Perimeters and boundaries are meaningless unless you back them up with bullets.

    • Unlike the police, quite a few National Guard members are not excited at the prospect of getting to shoot people. Quite a few are there for college money and nothing more. I wouldn’t expect that they’d be chomping at the bit to go to war with their neighbors.

    • Well, it’s just a day late and a dollar short.

      And what happened to all those DHS cops whose cars littered that hotel parking lot? Were they really there in St. Louis for sensitivity training?

  9. The citizens of Ferguson should be very happy that I was not in charge last night. If I had been, this morning’s news would have read “162 looters shot and killed last night, dozens more wounded. One building slightly damaged by fire, 3 cars scratched and dented. Rev. Sharpton is reported missing, and the search continues for any involved in the violence.”

    • And the s**t would have hit the fan in every major city in this country. Having the military firing on the people they are sworn to protect is a bad, bad idea. In this case it would just pour gasoline on an already raging fire. A retired cop I know had the best solution I have heard: Hose the violent mobs down with fire trucks and soak them good. It’s cold out. Most of them will bug out and go find warmth and dry clothes. Might want to guard anyplace that sells clothing though.

  10. “In fact, it’s an open question as to whether he can continue to live anywhere in the St. Louis area without putting his safety at risk and that of his family.”

    Serves him right for . . . ummm . . . nope. That’s as far a my irrational though can carry me today. Back to being happy for his family that he made it home that night and every night since. I’d welcome him to the local PD here or hire him outside law enforcement myself if I had an opening.

  11. Where was the National Guard????? Holy crap, wasn’t it last month that folks were saying the police were too jacked up with military gear? That bringing in the NG was going to result in another Kent State? Can all these numbnuts please make up their minds ! Either let the cops go in there and bust some heads, or let the freaking city burn to the ground. But for god sakes stop with the ping pong nonsense.

    • Looks like they chose the latter… and most of the stores that burned were minority-owned. Even with insurance, they will have a tough time. Only the good people lose in this. The people that win are the race merchants that feed on (and foment) racial conflict (ie – Sharpton and the Media). I find it horrifying. It seems that race relations have moved backwards in my lifetime (I’m 44) and that makes me really sad honestly. Do all black people hate me because I’m “white”? My grandparents were immigrants and worked their way (legally) through the process to become citizens. We have never taken part in any discrimination. When I was a kid, we barely noticed color (where I grew up). Now it seems that Black people hate White people and it really bums me out. Like others have said, the media and the race merchants highlight THIS one shooting and not all of the other shootings (black on white, black on black, etc) just because it gives them exactly what they want – division and conflict. I won’t be a part of it. If black people want to hate me because I’m white, then so be it. I won’t hate back. I didn’t do anything wrong. I’m not ashamed to be ‘white’. I did nothing wrong and neither did my lineage. It sucks to see all of the good working folks that got burned out because of this. But the Media got what they wanted – a full blown race riot in split-screen HD for your viewing pleasure with blow by blow commentary. And the looters and thugs got what they wanted. Only the good people (all of us in the middle) lose. Once again. Welcome to ObamaLand.

      • Do all black people hate me because I’m “white”?

        From my experiences in LA and SF after the Rodney King riots in ’91, no, not all.

        But a pretty large minority do, and with a passion. And there’s nothing you can do to change that.

      • This exactly. I have the same perspective: 42, did not know racism until I moved to the Midwest and was shocked by the shameless, bold hatred of … Whites? Living in CA, I heard there was racism in other parts of the country, but it was always presented as KKK-whites-0ppressing-blacks… some kind of throwback to Jim Crow times. Then I met 5 or 6 teenage boys who told me they were going to kill me because I was white.

        I’m Latino. My grandparents were (legal) immigrants.

        Does it matter?

        How about this: WE are American!

        • Think you’ve got it bad as a latino?

          Try being around some blacks when they think you’re Jewish (or worse, actually are…)

          Good times, good times…

    • Where was the state patrol captain that was able to calm the waters at the outset of this whole thing? Was he there last night? My guess is that he’s in Hollywood pitching the screenplay of his life story to several producers.

      • Captain Ron Johnson didn’t actually calm anything. That may have been the story on the national news, but just about every live feed available disproved it the first night he was in charge. The worst night in August was the second Sunday, while Johnson was still the front man.

    • I don’t think anyone here has an issue with the military (even the NG) rolling in MRAPS looking like tactical Timmy…that’s what they do. The big difference is your local police force with MRAPS and enough molle gear to hang an art gallery off of the assorted chest rigs. Namely…the NG isn’t going to break down a door looking for a small time drug dealer in St. Louis tomorrow. The local PD will..and likely shoot the dog, and flash bang a toddler, and have the wrong house, and…

  12. The National Guard was not called out because the powers to be believe it is better to let Ferguson burn than risk something like the Kent State shooting that would lead to national riots.

  13. Unless the Guard is trained in riot control, they usually do more harm than good. It’s not their fault. Sending anyone on a potentially dangerous mission for which they are not properly prepared is complete folly.

    As far as “saving” Ferguson, why would the Guard bother? If the people of Ferguson want the town saved, it will be. If they don’t, it won’t. If they don’t care, why should I, or anyone else?

    • I was going to post something similar. Let them wallow in their own depravity. If the residents want to live in the charred remains of civilization, so be it.

      • But there are no supermarkets in our neighborhood. No new businesses. We have to travel to other neighborhoods, the ones we didn’t burn down, to go shopping.

        Discrimination, I tells ya.

    • Exactly so.

      The political establishment in MO allowed and encouraged this to happen as well.

    • When I was in the guard, an 11B unit, in my six years we did MACDIS (military assistance in civil disturbances, I think is what th acronym means) training for a grand total of 6 hours in six years. With OEF and OIF going on and guard units getting deployed all the time, it just wasn’t a priority.

      Now the Missouri guard might have had more training since August in anticipation of these events happening, but as a whole the guard doesn’t devote much time to riot training.

  15. I still can’t believe they announced the no bill at 9o’clock. Duh…and Don Lemon is criticized for saying it smells like pot 🙂 At least gun business will thrive.

  16. This ain’t 1776… when you kept your musket, powder and shot above the fireplace.

    As a (retired) National Guardsman who has been called out before (for the Republican National Convention, a few floods, and snowstorms 9/11 and for Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy) I have to say that there is a process.

    First off, odds are that they are not activating a company or battalion of infantry. They probably figure they will need about one or two companies of soldiers. That means they will take an AGR major who works at battalion and put him in charge – probably the battalion S3.

    Then they will call out for volunteers. They already have a list. They will need X amount of Officers, X amount of E-7’s X amount of E6’s and X amount of sergeants, specialists and privates. So now the company first sergeants start making phone calls out to their guys looking for volunteers. Usually all of the guys who are cops, teachers, government workers, paid firefighters and prison guards jump up and volunteer because they can double dip. So maybe you get about half your strength this way.

    Now when you are activating the guard under Title 32, you really don’t have the force of the UCMJ. So just like in that movie “First Blood”, when the 1SF calls you and tells you that you are being activated, you can say: “F— You, Bob. I have to open the shop tomorrow.” The 1SG can yell at you but there isn’t much he can do. Title 10 is a different story. That’s federal active duty and yes, you are subject to the UCMJ and will get punished if you miss a movement.

    So after making your calls maybe you get a couple more college kids who really need the state pay or guys who are chronically unemployed. A couple of your guys are in jail. A couple of your guys have their phones turned off because they can’t pay the bill and you somehow connect with them through Facebook.

    Plenty of other guys say they can’t come because of a wedding, or child custody issues or work or whatever.

    So now you’ve got maybe 80% of your desired strength, but it is probably enough. Then you bring these guys in and start giving them mandatory classes. You have a JAG review. Use of Force. And so on. Now you are handed a weapon – and it probably isn’t even your weapon because remember we have guys from different companies mushed into this new task force.

    Maybe you go out to the range to zero your weapon, maybe you don’t. It doesn’t matter because you won’t be issued ammo for your weapon anyway. Odds are your weapon will be green (no magazine in) and your team leader will have your magazines.

    Now you have to move all of these guys to a staging area. Odds are it will be by charter bus. Then you have to set them up – probably on cots in a National Guard armory, local high school or some kind of stadium / gymnasium.

    Then you need to coordinate with local law enforcement about exactly what your role is suppose to be.

    So my guess is that at this time, you have 200 National Guardsmen sitting on a gymnasium floor somewhere surrounded by power strips so they can charge their cell phones waiting to be told what to do.

    And that is why you don’t see the National Guard anywhere.

    • Your post made more sense to me than anything I have seen on the internet all week.

      I feel normal again.

      • Except for the sergeant holding all the live ammo mags ” just in case”.
        Sending men into a riot like that with nothing but attitude seems like you’ re asking for a repeat of the scene out of “Aliens” when the Marines get to the breeding area.

        • I agree it isn’t logical. It makes sense because it agrees with my military experience.

          I was in Korea in the 90’s as an Army Specialist. Riots were erupting all over Seoul, but I was never issued any sort of weapon whatsoever. I was spontaneously surrounded by rioters in Yongsan at one point… I never ran so fast. All I wanted were some cheap Reeboks.

          Rodney King Riots in So Cal, I got to carry my m16 AND my empty mags… EMPTY mags. I stayed on base for some reason, but the guys that went out carried empty mags, too. They were scared silly. What if the rioters called their bluff?

          Weird, huh? So its not logical, but it makes sense. I just needed to be reminded that the military behaves this way.

    • Thannk you. Now when I think back on Gov Nixon calling out the National Guard a week ahead, it makes a lot more sense.

  17. Oh, don’t worry. Once the dust settles, the Federal Government will be handing out money to the very people doing the looting and burning. Yes, it’s the decent folks in that community who will suffer. The escalating Police State mentality is indeed a problem. But the deeper problem is the cultural rift in this nation where hard working law abiding citizens ultimately pay the price, while the media continues to racebait, agitate, and further glorify the predator thug culture that is turning this into a Third world country.

    Eventually old fashioned Red blooded Americans will be out-breeded by the entitlement class and illegal aliens until they achieve their ultimate goal. They are waging a covert war against hard working, resourceful, self-sufficient, Liberty loving, God fearing ARMED Americans. We are the last major obstacle to achieving the establishment of Global Governance, and the abolishing of our national sovereignty.

    • I’m sure they’ll have ‘community organizers’ as middlemen so as to make sure it’s all on the up and up.

  18. Apparently the Lt Gov has asked the same question, and said that the Administration put tremendous pressure on Nixon to NOT to deploy the Guard. The ultimate decision, however, lies with the governor. The National Guard answers to the governor, unless they are mobilized by the federal government, under either Title 10 or 32. So if Nixon fails to deploy Guard troops where they are needed, the responsibility lies upon him and him alone. Though the behavior of Holder and Obama are despicable and don’t help anything.

  19. A reporter on the ground in Ferguson, said last afternoon that a large number of police and law enforcement officers in SWAT gear, vests, and armed to the teeth were seen in and around the Ferguson police station, while a couple of blocks away businesses were being burned to the ground with no police or law enforcement seen there at all. What are the law enforcement doing in Ferguson if not to protect life, limb, and property of those businesses and citizenry who pay their salaries?

    • I learned here, on TTAG, that law enforcement is under no obligation to protect the citizenry or their property. That’s why you need to get your CCL.

    • So you want the police to get involved there huh?

      Officer Darren Wilson got involved. How’d that work out?

      Let em burn themselves for awhile.

  20. I live here and i hope the people calling for death of the rioters don’t call yourself a Christian …While i don’t agree with what they did and probably going to do tonight, I’m not wishing death upon any of them. I live a couple of minutes from all of that and i just hope it don’t spread to the neighborhood. I wish that it doesn’t happen but i understand their anger since I’m young and black but at the same time,to me this is not a race thing.

    • like christians are more moral than any other person? no they are not.

      Its nice to know not every black person up there gets caught up in the race baiting that goes on by our media and Mr Sharpton.

      • I wasn’t saying that Christians are more moral, but its crazy and every single person on this earth is different. There’s good and bad in every race and God has the final say and He knows what is truly right or wrong

    • “For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.” Romans 13:3-4

      • “Suppose you hear in one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The Lord your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

        Really not the best reference material for peaceful coexistence even with bratty kids, unless you cherry-pick like there’s no tomorrow…

        From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)

        I went to Catholic school, I could do this all night.

  21. not having the NG there was no mistake. If they had been there, it would have been 100 times worse, there DEFINITELY would have been shootings and then we would have a real problem. I think it was a smart decision to not endanger any more service men/womens lives attempting to control irrational primates.

  22. To my understanding, It actually isn’t their job to protect private property. I believe there was a Supreme Court ruling at one time that their job isn’t even necessarily to defend the lives of citizens. If you ask me what they were probably doing? Trying not to die would be my guess.

    • The police have general duty to the public to enforce the laws. They have no obligation to protect an individual:

      Warren vs DC
      Gonzalez vs Castle Rock
      Ballesteri vs Pacifica Bay PD
      Riss vs the City of New York
      Just to name a few…

      California Government Code 845 goes further and specifically states that no individual or entity can be held liable for failure to establish a police service or for providing inadequate police service.
      846 says the government can’t be held liable for failure to make an arrest or injuries/damage as the result of a failure to make an arrest.

    • This is exactly why Ferguson will burn, and the animals will run wild. As much as I feel sorry for the average Ferguson resident who generally does actually get up, go to work each day, and is a decent human being, they aren’t doing anything to stop this nonsense. The cops aren’t going to, the only thing they care about is going home to spend that fat OT check.

      Have them try this crap in west county and see what happens. The first miscreant that tries to firebomb a business, or roll a car will be shot. Most of the residents are armed, are tacitly organized, and will do what is necessary to defend their homes and livelihoods. That the Ferguson business owners were not in their businesses and armed to repel looters is (in a sad and twisted way) their problem. Trusting the cowardly police to do it is a fool’s errand. The only folks who escaped round I back in the day unscathed made it obvious to potential lawbreakers that theirs was not a good target.

    • Maybe the shop owners were too busy “protesting” down the street at their competitors.

      There were some folks holed up with rifles at their stores. I strongly suspect the looters moved on to other places and didn’t bother… hence the no shootings of that nature. Then again there are reported shootings everywhere (if you listen to the scanners) so maybe we’re just not hearing about it yet.

  24. Hmmmm, sort of like Benghazi in that respect, the leader doesn’t send in the armed protection huh? One community organizer to the other “we got it under control”

  27. Your retired cop buddy is an idiot . We fighters learned years ago that hosing down rioters only makes us a target.

    Plus ya know it’s not like you can hop into the rig and drive away ,when it’s in pump and hooked solid to a plug, if things go bad, Like in ’64 during our riots they attacked us with our own axes .

    We fight fires not people for a reason.

  28. Now i would use the NG to secure a perimeter of a few square blocks for a FD Task Force to work, knock down fires with heavy appliances then move on.
    more bodies would probably dampen the arson movements and cannot see any problem using deadly force if FF are threatened.

  30. Ryan’s post above is a great explanation of how it would go down w NG on scene. First there were approximately 700 NG on standby last night. If you were listening to the police scanner you could hear them. No police I know respond to radio checks with “Lima Charlie, Hotel Mike.” I have no idea why they weren’t more visible last night but they were there. Tonight there was 2200 of them and they were way more visible.

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