Ahead of the release of part of the official police report on the Sandy Hook Elementary School spree killing, courant.com reports that the police responding to the school did so in a less-than-timely manner. “Among the aspects of the response under scrutiny was a decision by the first responding Newtown officer to park nearly a quarter mile away at the top of the driveway to the school and wait for other officers to arrive, sources familiar with the investigation said. Those officers moved to the school on foot along the tree line . . . Dispatch records indicate the first 911 call came in just before 9:36 and the first officer arrived at the school at about 9:37:30. The dispatch tapes indicate there were officers in the school at 9:44, but don’t make clear exactly when the first officer entered.” More on that timeline . . .
One family member who requested anonymity said the report did include a timeline and that [Danbury State’s Attorney Stephen] Sedensky told them during the meeting state police and Newtown officers entered the building simultaneously . . .
The first state troopers to arrive at the school came from Troop A in Southbury. Sources with knowledge of the investigation said many of them went in the school through a door that was smashed open by members of the Statewide Narcotics Task Force on the corner of the building near the playground. Others went through the glass window that Lanza shot out. Newtown police entered through the rest of the school and the boiler room.
As we surmised, the Newtown cops did not follow active shooter protocol: enter upon arrival, locate and engage the threat with all due speed. Children died while the cops rallied.
Dispatch records indicate that about three minutes after the initial 911 call, a dispatcher told the officers that the shooting had stopped and the school was in lockdown. Within a minute of that report, the dispatcher alerted officers that teachers could hear shooting and states the “shooter is apparently still shooting in the officer area.”
We still don’t know the exact chain of events. But it’s now clear that some members of the Newtown police force arrived, waited for backup, then entered. Whether the first responding police officers could have prevented some of those deaths may be a moot point for the parents of the victims and survivors, but it’s not for those of us who have children in school.
We need to know exactly what went wrong that horrible day, so that deficiencies can be addressed and children’s lives protected. One thing’s for certain: the post-Newtown “debate” over civilian disarmament would have been different if this information had come to light soon after the shooting. As it should have.
Shame on the Connecticut police and Constitution State politicians for sacrificing children’s safety on the altar of their personal, professional and political ambitions.
Coward.
I can see that we will have to re-issue the bumper sticker with the correction:
“911 – When seconds count help is only 6 1/2 minutes away, waiting for back-up”
You are so correct . I am so tired of the police with their “Protect and Serve motto ” they forgot to add “Themselves” to the decal . They want to run around with guns but when the time comes instead of being brave they have to wait for the rest of the gang. Most All police it is about them getting home and you don’t matter because “they are special”. They act like the job is so hard If .it is so hard quit . I see lots of Fat policemen everyday they didn’t get fat by chasing criminals. Let see they have guns, body armor,radio’s endless backup and every advantage known to man plus a “get out of jail free card” and still can’t make a move because of serving themselves. They want the authority to lord over everyone, but when the time comes to stand and deliver it is like hurry up and wait.
I used to be pro-police . But when i see them taking away my rights, treating people like crap and acting like Seal Team 6 Rejects and their “Special attitude” of Us versus Them and just being a taxpayer drain. I am beginning to think any incident you call the police for will just be made worse. Infact sometimes the police are worse than the criminals at least you know what to expect from the criminal . Make no mistake these guys will take away your rights every time they get the chance
If you are afraid to do what needs to be done you should just turn in the badge and free up the spot for Law men who put who they serve first before themselves. Who care about the constitution and the community . There are enough fat slobs with a badge and a god complex to last us for ages
LEOtards…..”To protect (our pensions) and to serve (our unions).” And don’t forget our cool gun “buy-back” program!
“You are so correct . I am so tired of the police with their “Protect and Serve motto ” they forgot to add “Themselves” to the decal”
Exactly, cops are only brave when they’re shooting at children in minivans, when there are 5-6 of them beating to death unarmed homeless men just for fun, or shooting pets for absolutley no damn reason. America’s most sickening group of scumbag cowards.
Seems this is becoming a reoccurring theme here. Cops not wanting to do their jobs and children and adults paying the price. Just as it was when I was an active duty Army Officer it is part of the job description to have to put yourself in harms way. He had a vest on, A 12 gauge (maybe even a full auto M-4 n the trunk too) in the car, a .40 cal on his hip going against one guy with a pistol. Instead to coward and his coworkers waited until they had a small army. How many children died or were grievously wounded because of the cowardly actions of law enforcement . Somehow I can’t see Red State Police Officers standing around like that.
How many? Too many. It’s “almost” as if they want the body count to go up, isn’t it? Could this be an unnoticed aspect of gun control?
I certainly think so.
Cops are cowards. Proof here.
Double cowards. “Protect and serve”, MY ASS!
I wonder how that officer sleeps at night.
Rather poorly I hope!
Just fine. His union provided counseling and free meds.
No doubt.
It’s pretty standard procedure for leos not to go guns blazing into an unknown situation and possibly get themselves or others shot. Especially school shootings with possible hostages.
I don’t see how this is news.
I’m pretty sure that most departments have been trying to institute ‘active shooter protocols’ that call for confronting the shooter ASAP. This is news if the department had this protocol in place and he did not move to confront and preserve life.
“I’m pretty sure that most departments have been trying to institute ‘active shooter protocols’ that call for confronting the shooter ASAP”
WRONG!! Since the disaster at Columbine in Colorado, quite the opposite. Active shooter protocols for all LEO’, nationwide, are focused on officer safety FIRST.
This is easy to determine by the published accounts as well as department policies nationwide. This is nothing new. Only the public is under the delusion that LEO is their to protect them.
>> WRONG!! Since the disaster at Columbine in Colorado, quite the opposite. Active shooter protocols for all LEO’, nationwide, are focused on officer safety FIRST.
But cops at Columbine did wait outside for more backup while shooting was happening (though not sure if they could hear it), and weren’t there changes in policy after this came to light? Not sure what they were, but you seem to be saying that something happened after Columbine that led to this, but it seems to me the same thing happened at Columbine. I’m confused.
It is most assuredly NOT standard procedure to wait for other officers to respond to a school shooter. That strategy was jettisoned after Columbine.
“Kehoe has told the Courant the department’s active shooter policy, last updated in 2002, is clear that officers should enter a building in which there is a shooter and find threat as quickly as possible. They are not to wait for command staff or SWAT officers to arrive.”
^^^ This
Even in my small department, we were taught and practiced getting in fast, finding the threat and terminating the threat. Fast. No waiting.
Several of us had kids in those schools, friends with kids in those schools.
How on earth could you look a parent in the eye and say, ‘sorry, I was too frightened to try and save your child, so I parked down the street and waited for someone who had balls’.
I find this disgusting.
Sounds like he responded as if it was a hostage situation as opposed to an active shooter.
WORD!
You actually believe the what LEO “says” versus what they actually DO, in every active shooter situation??
Seriously, time to wake up, look at the facts, and stop falling for the lies.
This is correct. We long ago abandoned the tactical team work and stacking procedures when an active shooter is running around. This has been instituted on a national level. Its not a local thang..
1.) Find shooter, 2.)Stop shooter. 3.) Eat Donut.
That is the protocol. Much discussion has been vetted about the acceptable losses of officers lives, should the first or second officer go down, and, on a national level, especially when kids are involved. These are acceptable losses. The goal is to put pressure on and keep the shooters attention on us and not the kids. If the first wave should fail…the next ones gets as crack…etc. Either way, keep the shooters attention on us and never ending pressure, no more surround and negotiate.
In this case, I think it was 1) eat donut 2) wait for shooting to stop 3) hope shooter killed themselves 4) enter building and then claim trauma disability
^^^This is the truth.
They recommend civilians hunker down and wait not the cops. But hey whatever you have to do to go home right. That’s the new motto protect & serve is so 1950’s.
Bought a baseball cap from the LAPD Officers’ Association back in 1984. Their Motto:
“To Protect and Serve, when we FUCKING feel like it.”
Since it’s now in the public domain, Newtown PD, feel free to use it.
The SOP’s changed for active shooter scenarios after Columbine; many police Departments now have the protocols that as long as there at least two police available; that they are to go and engage the shooter and end the threat quickly.
Yes, that’s normal for the average call. However, it is also a nearly national standard that in an active shooter situation, you go in as soon as you arrive and move towards the sound of shooting to neutralize the threat.
If they are so afraid of getting shot, why give them bulletproof vests? Or are cops more cowardly than regular citizens?
Yes, that is a troll question, but if you aren’t willing to put yourself into real danger, go be a hairstylist.
My first response was that these cops at least had vests, which is more than the kids and teachers had, but the best duty vest worn by a cop is little protection against even a 5.62 round. As I understand it they are rated for pistol rounds only.
“…not to go guns blazing into an unknown situation and possibly get themselves or others shot.”
Roland, please! Twenty first grade schoolchildren were MASSACRED while police officers already on scene waited through concerns of not getting themselves shot.
Standard LEO practice since Columbine is for the first officer to go IN. It’s nice when two can go, but if one is there, he’s the one who starts the action. Active/School shooters don’t take hostages–rather like airplane hijackers don’t take hostages for any longer than it takes to fly the plane into a building. Active/School shooters are looking for the highest body counts in the shortest amount of time; They will kill until they are stopped.
Why, is your daddy one?
So I guess now we can put actual time into the saying that when seconds count the police are only (8) minutes away?
or more, depending on if the responding officer wants to even bother trying to stop the carnage.
From the local LEOs I talk with, SOP says go in immediately, find and deal with active shooter w/o waiting for backup
Maybe the regs vary by State?
Extremely disturbing. Even as an auxiliary officer, I knew I had signed on to “march to the sound of the guns” and give my life (intelligently) if necessary to protect the public. Every fireman and soldier knows this too.
If this report is true, this was not “good tactics”, it was a best, stupid, unnecessary confusion and delay, and at worst, cowardice.
As you point out Robert, this blows another GIGANTIC hole in the arguments of the “We don’t need guns, the cops will protect us” crowd.
Bad tactics or cowardice, the result will be the same. Two weeks paid vacation followed by promotion…..
He failed to “Ride to the sound of the guns.” He should be stripped of his status, job and honor. Publicly.
Amen!
I don’t know if I can necessarily blame the LEO without knowing some more details. What this does tell you is something that we all already know – most (not all) cops will not sacrifice their lives for your’s. This is why your own personal security and safety shouldn’t be left to someone else.
I can certainly blame him- while there may be no legal requirement for police in general to act in defense of others, there is certainly a moral requirement in every non federal department I have ever heard of. There was a semi-active shooter situation near where I live back in April, and the first officers only waited as long as it took to grab rifles and chamber a round. About five seconds, I think.
If this report is correct, he most likely failed to follow his training and he certainly failed to uphold his oath. Not everyone is capable of doing what needs to be done in a situation like that, but if he was measured and found wanting, he needs to find another job.
This is just a symptom of the larger problem. We, as a nation, are in the shape we are be cause there are far to many that would rather watch than do and an even larger number that will excuse the watchers!
Citizens can’t keep and bear arms in schools but the Police won’t respond to active shooters.
Nice.
But, but, Robert, actually going in to try to protect the children would have meant ignoring the most important thing in the known universe: Officer Safety.
Isn’t waiting for backup SOP for the police? We can’t have them go and do something stupid like SAVE LIVES!
In an active shooter situation waiting for backup is NOT standard operating procedure – not since Columbine. Police departments nationwide adopted a doctrine of immediate response to active shooters after the police report on the Columbine shootings revealed that the school resource officer was ordered to wait for backup while the shooters murdered people.
“…the school resource officer was ordered to wait for backup while the shooters murdered people.”
Legal minds correct me if I’m wrong, but if you KNOW a crime is being committed and you could reasonably do something to stop or prevent that crime, and you do not act, are you not now an accomplice to that crime?
Would that not then make an order to wait in a known “Active Shooter” situation an illegal order and you and you superior accomplices in every injury or death between the time the order was given and obeyed and the time preventive action was effectively initiated?
No, not at all. There are numerous court cases that the police do not have a duty to protect any particular individual.
I am aware of that, Dean. What I am suggesting is that ANYONE, LEO or not, who can prevent a crime in progress but does not is an accomplice in that crime. While law enforcement may not have a responsibility to protect an individual they do have a responsibility to uphold the law.
Are we to assume that if the LEO was in the school and witnessed the shooting he was justified in withholding his response until he felt the time was appropriate, regardless of how many died in the interim? I believe the SCOTUS case was in reference to failing to provide protection when either promised to or requested by the victim, not failing to stop a crime in progress. I have not read the ruling in detail, but that was my understanding of the synopsis.
I’m curious to see if this police report will contain ballistics. There has been wide speculation as to the actual caliber, therefore firearm(s) used.
Truth be told, only members of our AI will take anything home from the potential findings that no .223 casings/bullets were to be found. The media and libturds have done their damage already in demonizing AR’s in a sickening exploitation of these innocent children.
The coroner reported after his examinations that all of the victims had been shot with .223. There were numerous empty or semi-empty AR mags littering the floor. With as many rounds fired as reported, do you really think he used a handgun (other than to end himself)? Why is this an issue?
Because the coroner was a creepy fat a**hole who laughed and joked about kids dying during the tv interview.
I ask again:
“Is THIS what you meant, Natalie?”
Natalie is just a kid. She probably only knows what the people around her have told her, and she certainly doesn’t know the potential consequences of the request.
But the system and the believers who indoctrinated her — they have a lot to answer for.
If this is what they are willing to release, what F-up’s are they still hiding by not releasing the report?
The reality of the situation is obvious:police are a paperwork processing section, not an incident response squad.
That job is the victims,assigned when a violent attacker makes the first move.Police are not legally obligated to protect anyone but themselves, and as such the victims are completely on their own.The police will set up a barricade, call in a phone number, and wait for the cavalry.
Another point:a police officer has to be mentally and totally squared away to even attempt a direct rescue on site.Most cops I’d say don’t meet that high standard.I live in a pro RKBA state, and I had the occasion to see two officers training in the lane furthest away from mine.The female trainee, tac vest and all, couldnt even hit a 5′ x 4′ target at 21 feet with her issue Glock.At the end of the session, she had only random hits near the bulls eye to show for it.
The woman gave me the strangest smile as I passed her lane on the way out.My shooting wasnt all that, but I looked like Rob Vogel next to her.All I could think of after seeing her face was sad curiosity if I’d ever see it in the news next to an “End of Watch” headline.
Government based security is a myth.
I don’t have the full timeline, so I can’t pass judgement just yet. But if that cop let that animal murder more children while he sat in his squad car, then he is a coward and should have been fired long ago. But this just reinforces what we already know. We are our own first responders, and cannot count on police to come save the day, when their first concern may well be themselves.
This has to be the actual evidence that we use in courts to sue for the right to carry everywhere. Civilian disarmament proponents have always proposed the lame and unsupported claims that the public doesn’t need to be armed because police will stop bad guys … and that disarming the public thus improves public safety without any cost. Well this proves otherwise.
And even without this report, the fact remains that a mass murderer can injure/kill several dozen people in less than 90 seconds … the atypical and phenomenal response time of the police in the Aurora movie theater mass murder.
only our 17 and 18 year old warriors in the military (not excluding anyone) are brave enough to rush into danger. how shameful.
I have come to discover that most warriors are more afraid of shame, regret, and failure more than danger, bodily harm or death, their biggest fear was always letting someone down.The first responding officers were likely not of this caliber.
Not the police
From the article:
Sorry, but at 400 meters away, you’re not on the scene yet.
“I think it’s pretty tough to second guess the guys who were there responding to a chaotic scene.”
And yet, when a mere “civilian” uses deadly force in a chaotic scene, they can be second-guessed right into prison by cops and prosecutors.
Funny, isn’t it? The so-called experts with vast amounts of training (so they say) are simply excused when they make multiple errors, but every-day joe’s are expected to perform flawlessly or go to jail.
You know if the police union says it is B.S. If they told me the grass was green i would go out and check it They must think everyone is stupid the police reporting on themselves and we are supposed to believe it .
Too damn chicken to do the job without paramilitary formation.
It’s OK, as long as they have the cool Ray-Ban’s and a buzz cut to look scary for the photographers taking pictures afterwards. Proving how intimidating they would be to a criminal… if they ever faced one, that is.
All the more reason to be against “gun-free zones” and civilian disarmament. I’m not surprised at all. Do I necessarily blame the man? Maybe, maybe he should not have signed up to be a cop.
Procedure? Policy? How about this: shove your ‘policy’ up your ass, grab your gun, sack up, get in there and use biblical amounts of force to stop the shooter(s) in any way you possibly can. OR, let those of us who actually would respond that way carry firearms in schools.
^This. The one variable that often seems missing is that if you are already in the “kill zone” you have a powerful incentive to take action and stop the threat. If you are responding to a report of an Active Shooter you have a powerful incentive to evaluate the threat before entering the “kill zone”. He who hesitates is lost.
But, but, but officers deserve to go home at the end of the shift.
We ALL deserve to go home at the end of our shift. I shouldn’t need to depend on ANYONE else to tell me that’s alright.
All the Leos went home after the shift. Mission accomplished. What’s the beef?
Maybe he posted up at the driveway to keep the dangerous armed citizens away… for their own good, Cap’n.
Even in Beslan, Ukraine, former Soviet Block member state, armed civilians came to assist the responding officers and so far as I know were welcomed. The massacre came after a police “rescue” action spooked the terrorists and triggered their suicidal response. It is still uncertain if that rescue was actually an attempt to insert Spetnaz into the building. There was never any indication that the presence of armed civilians was detrimental to the situation at all.
Two things Robert.
1) Please do not use the Constitution State nickname anymore for CT, as we are not deserving of it at this time.
2) The debate would not have been changed by this knowledge, I’m confident the legislature and governor would have done the same exact thing regardless of how fast the police got there or stopped the shooter. What he did and the way he did it and what he used to do it were the relevant facts the entire ‘debate’.
Unfortunately I think this information is only helpful after the fact.
2.5 minute delay. AT LEAST. Shameful. Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang. How many lives were lost in that timeframe. Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang. If you were armed, knew children were dying, how fast would YOU run to save those kids? Bang, Bang, Bang Bang.
When seconds count….
Lets see Mom’s Demand Action make THAT commercial. Thought so.
Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action, just not when it comes time to save lives. CT has become the unconstitutional state, sorry to any patriots stuck there.
I remember watching the shooting at Columbine live on TV. They had a small army of cops just hanging outside the school, nobody went inside the school for what seemed like an eternity. Even then I remember questioning that sort of ‘do nothing and wait until it’s safe for US to go in’ approach by the authorities, it was quite disturbing. Apparently nothing has changed since then. Legions of cops will show up, but will make sure to remain at safe distance, leaving the victims inside at the mercy of the shooter.
uh oh, what’s with the triple post?
Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action, just not when it comes time to save lives. CT has become the unconstitutional state, sorry to any patriots stuck there.
I remember watching the shooting at Columbine live on TV. They had a small army of cops just hanging outside the school, nobody went inside the school for what seemed like an eternity. Even then I remember questioning that sort of ‘do nothing and wait until it’s safe for US to go in’ approach by the authorities, it was quite disturbing. Apparently nothing has changed since then. Legions of cops will show up, but will make sure to remain at safe distance, leaving the victims inside at the mercy of the shooter.
I had the same thought watching Columbine. People say that SOP changed after that, but it didn’t. People still stand around waiting for somebody else to do something.
And notice how they leak this stuff out on the 50th anniversary of JFK? Trying to bury the lead perhaps.
Speed, Surprise and Violence of Action, just not when it comes time to save lives. CT has become the unconstitutional state, sorry to any patriots stuck there.
I remember watching the shooting at Columbine live on TV. They had a small army of cops just hanging outside the school, nobody went inside the school for what seemed like an eternity. Even then I remember questioning that sort of ‘do nothing and wait until it’s safe for US to go in’ approach by the authorities, it was quite disturbing. Apparently nothing has changed since then. Legions of cops will show up, but will make sure to remain at safe distance, leaving the victims inside at the mercy of the shooter.
Same thing at Virginia Tech.
And the recent shooting at Garden State Plaza here in Jersey. Thankfully there were no victims other than the shooter, but even though dozens of units responded, nobody did anything for hours.
And notice how they leak this stuff out on the 50th anniversary of JFK? Trying to bury the lead perhaps.
This is why the police should only hire Marines: they run out of the tent in their skivvies when they hear gunfire, eager to “get some”. Most cops are more “21 Jump Street” than Dirty Harry.
Until you are pulled over, and then you want more 21 Jump Street and less Dirty Harry. I think I will just hold out for level-headed and responsible in all situations, thanks.
Active shooter in an elementary school, and you want them to sit around waiting for backup? Maybe you can think a problem to death and it’ll take care of itself.
“Lanza shot himself- we can go in now.”
If the police hired only Marines then there would be a lot more accidental shootings and every arrest would end with a t-bag and an hoorah.
Every Marine a rifleman.
That sickens me. Even alone, I would have had to try. With backup minutes or seconds out the first man in could have attempted engagement or at least located and isolated the shooter. This could have coordinated the effort. As a 2 man unit the approach would’ve been a no-brainer.
This needs to be widely addressed. This tragedy has been used to demonize the only people who would have acted decisively in their children’s defense. Of course now the iron is cold and it will be treated as conjecture or speculation despite being fact. Stupid media.
This is an important point. Since it would appear that in ALMOST every case these shooters intentionally choose a gun-free zone in order to maximize their body count without opposition the introduction of ANY OTHER WEAPON immediately changes the dynamic and distracts the shooter from their intended mission. These are not generally trained terrorists with planning and comrades to cover their pathetic asses, they are cowards and punks. How many times have these shooters stopped when confronted by opposition and taken their own life?
The end of gun-free zone means: “choose another target.” The introduction of a good guy’s gun into a gun-free zone means: “Game over.”
I just thought about this and have never seen the statistic anywhere – how many responding officers have ever been shot or even shot at by the Active Shooter in a mass-murder event (not some domestic beef gone out of control) before he committed suicide or was shot down?
More proof that you can not depend on the police / government to protect you.
Because going home at the end of the shift isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.
Hey, officers, we all want you to be safe, so if you’re not going to get into the fight, just stay home and let us handle things on our own.
+100
It seems to me this is even more evidence of police militarization.
The response seems in keeping with a military reaction to an unknown number of shooters in a hostile AO. Arrive on scene, observe and report, wait for back-up and gather additional intel. Then move in cautiously from as many angles as possible with overwhelming force. In other words this seems less like a police response to an active shooter and more like an urban engagement by a small military force.
except that military personnel are trained to react to gunfire – and either return fire or ride to the sound of the guns. this is more like “mall ninja’zation” of the police.
COWARDS!!!
So my first question was, if the locals entered at the same time as the State Police, when did the Staties arrive and enter? Wouldn’t that set the time line?
I live nearby and the ‘Troop A’ state police barracks in Southbury is about 10 minutes away. So assuming that they weren’t already nearby on the highway when they got the call (the article says they came from the barracks) it was a minimum of ten minutes. It’s still speculation though, it could of been 5 minutes or twenty minutes for all I know, but this timeline could be very damning of their response if it is ever clarified.
Hmm…vital information withheld until the gun debate ends? Coincidence no?
Reading the comments, quit frankly I don’t see what he did wrong, sure his intervention could have saved lives, but entering a situation with no information on the shooter or layout would generally be a bad idea right? I can see why he’s being attacked but would it have made any sense to go in blind? On one hand he didn’t do what he was “trained” to do, but on the other police are generally told to wait for backup in hostile situations. Im not attempting to start a shit storm but it seems as though most of the hate is based on pure emotion for the situation rather then what aspects of the situation demand.
I guess he should sit and wait until someone comes in with blueprints ans they can get their whole crew set up and play follow the leader through the halls. No way I could have sat in my car hearing gunfire and know he was shooting at kids and teachers and done nothing.
Entering a violent situation with very little intel isn’t smart, but inaction is inexcusable when the stakes are so high.
If this report is true, it sickens me that a fellow Officer would wait when he knew there was an active shooter inside an elementary school.
Damn his fear.
I’ve taken several ‘Active Shooter’ classes through ALERRT in the last few years. Every single time we were told not to hesitate to run towards the gunfire, regardless of our numbers. Our instructors would drill it into our heads that it could be our child that was about to be shot, or have us imagine telling a mother & father that there child was dead because we were scared and wanted to wait for more Officers while some psychopath had free reign over a classroom full of children.
As a former active duty Marine and current SRO, hell even as a man, I cannot fathom waiting for additional Officers to arrive in that situation. I have already made peace with the fact I may not come home to my wife one night, but that is the price I am willing to pay so that others may live. I will gladly lay my life down for others so they may return to their families and loved ones. My wife understands this, as well as my family and have accepted this fact. If other Officers have not accepted this fact, they need to seek life elsewhere.
This Officer, if found to have shown cowardice in the line of duty, should face full disciplinary action. I hope he will find the strength to live with the knowledge that he could have saved people that day. I do pity him in this regard.
Pathetic.
Thank you.
Thanks for your reply. If we only had more peace officers like you…
Cowardice in the face of the enemy used to be punishable by death. Now he gets disability pay. And people remember heroes, not cowards.
“Officer, Hold out your hand.”
(Officer hold hand out.)
WHAP!!!! (Officer’s hand is whacked with a rolled up newspaper.)
“Disciplinary measure completed.”
Sadly, this is the most discipline most officers will receive for breaking regulations, especially any regulation written for the benefit of the people, and overridden internally by another. (written or verbal)
KUDOS to those officers that do the right thing, regardless of any policy in place.
The police don’t discipline each other. but they will lie ,cheat and whatever to protect their buddies’ Never cross the blue line . Police policing each other is like having a fox guard a hen house. Every police officer should have to wear a camera and a GPS tracker while on duty . it would weed out most of the bad apple’s and lazy cops who are just milking taxpayers for their check. If they aren’t doing dirt then they should have no issue with it / Make them take classes on the constitution of the USA and remind them who they work for us the tax payer not their buddies and we aren’t their “Subjects”
Make it easier to fire them and add personal liability when it come to lawsuits enough of the tax payer picking up the tab if they don’t like it quit and find another job
It’s known as the Thin Blue Lyin’.
I can’t imagine just sitting there like a b@tch. I would rather take a bullet trying to save those kids than go home a coward.
The parting cry of Spartan mothers to their sons was “Come back with your shield- or on it.”
Why was it socially acceptable for a Spartan to return from battle without his helmet but he must have his shield? Because the soldier puts the helmet on to protect himself. The shield is for the protection of his comrades too.
This cop came home without his shield.
We know that “protect and server” no longer has any meaning, maybe we can change it to “cower and hide.”
Whether you go in alone or not is highly dependent on the situation. For example: If it is quiet, (no active shooting) your odds of survival and actually helping the situation could be pretty low solo. An ambush is not something you are likely to win. There is a good argument here for waiting for a second to go in with you. Now if there is active shooting and it sounds like a solo shooter you have a much better chance of stopping the threat.
I can’t see a justification for parking a quarter mile away.
Can anybody link to police SOPs in an active shooter scenario? The only one I found was on wikipedia. I’m actually pretty curious what the specifics are when a shooting goes down.
The S in SOP isn’t entirely accurate. Each department has their own procedures.
It just goes to show you…if you put ALL your faith in the police to protect you, that you can’t count on them to risk their lives for you…and it’s not reasonable to expect they can be everywhere you are.
You know who is everywhere you are? You. If you are carrying…you are the first responder…and you will risk your life for your family. A cop won’t. Don’t get me wrong, cops are heroes…but they want to go home to their families too. Only you will risk it all for your family. Be the first responder or be a statistic.
I feel confident most TTAG’ers would have gone in, armed or not. I propose the word “hero” be removed forthwith from all discussions about the police.
According to an editorial in the Hartford Courant posted this morning, the responding officers were ordered to wait before entering the school as the shooting was going on. If this turns out to be true, a responding cop who was not all that keen to tangle with an unknown situation, could ease his worries by knowing that they were only following orders.
The first unit arrived a minute and a half after the first call. Had they entered the school immediately the death toll would obviously have been substantially lower.
The statement to wait before entering may also be a key reason that the States Attorney will not release the 911 calls and radio transmissions.
If he truly WAS ordered to wait, I believe there’s at least a Criminal Negligence charge floating above a lot of heads. Ralph?
Yeah you are right. It just came out recently too that the gunman doubled back into Mrs. Soto’s room for some reason. The cop probably coulda got him in the hallway when he was going into that second classroom. I wish the damn janitor woulda had a gun, and/or the principal. Those seem like the two most logical people in a school to arm first.
If you’re expecting your school employees to throw their bodies in front of a shooters bullets, it seems like far less to ask of them to just throw some bullets at the shooter, and take cover with your body.
As we are STILL WAITING on the FINAL REPORT from the “investigation” almost a year later. I do not and will not believe a damn thing it says good, bad or indifferent.
“Maybe I should wait for the report to come out, read it, THEN remember. “
And so again, it’s much more important to go home safe and cozy at the end of the shift than to save lives.
Pathetic unionized shift workers. Only this time their sloth caused untold grief for innumerable law-abiding citizens in states all across the US [I refuse to use the neo-fascist term “homeland”.].
Troop A in Southbury is Exit 14/15 on 84. The school is closest to Exit 10 but you can also use Exit 11.
Use Google maps, even at high speed the police are minutes away. Ditto for Newtown Police station.
It was over except maybe for the shooter to kill himself.
The fallacy that calling the police can save you when the threat is right on top of you.
Some departments do not allow lone police officers to go into that situation by themselves. The “wait for backup” is part of the SOP. That said, ‘allowed to’ and ‘able to’ are two different things. I am sure that an average police officer could have taken down the shooter. If not death by cop, the shooter would have committed suicide far sooner. Further, let’s say the cop never kills the shooter and the shooter never kills himself. Having suppressive fire would allow more victims to escape to safety as the shooter would be occupied with the cop.
they wanna limit mags to 10 rounds so a perp has to reload more for a chance to save more lives, but when the cops just stand outside, theres a lot of unanswered reloading going on
That cop got to go home unscathed after the incident. Shame the teachers and students didn’t.
Most police are now revenue collection agents instead of law enforcement.
Now that’s what I call “protect and serve”. It was an improvement on Columbine, where it was in excess of 3 hours. Draw your own conclusions.
This may be the reason the report has been “delayed” so long.
We don’t need police who aren’t willing to risk their lives for us. If that’s the case, cut their pay to the median pay of teachers. A lot of state Troopers in NYS go out on disability just before they are eligible for retirement (disability brings no taxes and great retirement). They also get to add overtime to their high three years for retirement calculation, as do NYS firefighters, some of whom pay their younger brethren for the OT the young guy is getting so they can work the OT and brighten up their high three for retirement. Guess who works a lot of OT hours in those last three years? That’s the northeast and big cities for you, on the other hand there is this:
CARTHAGE, NC (WTVD) — Jurors in the Robert Stewart murder trial reached a verdict Saturday. He was found guilty of eight counts of second-degree murder in a shooting rampage at a North Carolina nursing home in 2009.
The verdict means Stewart is spared the death penalty.
Stewart had admitted to shooting 11 people, killing eight of them, at the Pinelake Health and Rehabilitation Center in Carthage. But In trying to spare his life, Stewart’s defense lawyers said the 47-year-old was essentially sleepwalking at the time due to taking a combination of prescription drugs.
Prosecutors spent 13 days presenting witness testimony and physical evidence to make a case for a first-degree murder conviction.
Assistant District Attorney Tiffany Bartholomew said Stewart knew what he was doing and was on a rampage looking for his estranged wife, who worked at the nursing home.
She said the shooting started in the parking lot when Stewart shot up his wife’s car and he paraded through the nursing home, reloading every three shots as he fired at the elderly patients at point-blank range.
Residents Tessie Garner, 75; Lillian Dunn, 89; Jesse Musser, 88; Bessie Hedrick, 78; John Goldston, 78; Margaret Johnson, 89; Louise DeKler, 98; and nurse Jerry Avant, 39 – all died in the gunfire.
Defense attorney Jon Megerian said Ambien and other drugs in Stewart’s system caused him to be in a zombie-like state of mind when he entered the nursing home.
Megerian said Stewart was depressed because his wife, Wanda Neal, had recently left him and he thought he was going to die from prostate cancer.
Jurors deliberated for two days. While they also found Stewart guilty of other assorted assault charges, they found him not guilty of attempted first-degree murder for shooting Carthage police officer Justin Garner.
Garner stopped Stewart’s rampage by shooting him in the chest. Garner was wounded in the leg by a blast from Stewart’s shotgun.
That is part of a newspaper article. What the article does not say is Officer JUSTIN GARNER, got the call, went into the nursing home himself, WITHOUT BACKUP, WITHOUT SWAT, WITHOUT DETERMING IF HE WOULD BE SAFE !!!!!, confronted the shooter who had a shotgun, got shot and shot the shooter. He did not call on the radio to see if Barney was on the way, where the hell is SWAT? How many of you guys are going with me? I need help and I’m not sure of the perimeter conditions, he just went in . . . courageously. He has the right to call himself a Police Officer.
Just like those NYC firefighters on 9/11 who broke protocol and went in knowing it was not a good idea but they went in anyway. If they had followed the protocol, they would have pointed their trucks away from the WTC, spent an hour determining if it was safe, making sure they had rescue backup, etc, but no, they courageously want in. They are HEROES!!!
Not like most cops and by the book firefighters, they could not let people die.
But the resource officer at Columbine shot at the kids doing the shooting, then left as he never confronted them again, he waited for backup and a perimeter and SWAT. Correct me on this one if I’m wrong!
Now you know what I think of most of these public servants, who only serve themselves.
Just sayin’
Blah, blah, blah yeah,
I can understand. Even citizens with CCW and are carrying, the wise move is to vacate from an active shooter, your choice.
To enter a situation may not be smart, even for a cop, but that is not the point. What if you are STUCK in the situation, a teacher and 15 kids protected by a door that can have its lock shot up. What then.
If I am that teacher, I am not choosing anything, the gunman is choosing all.
Every time this happens and the suggestion of allowing trained teachers to carry, the scale is zeroed out, meaning, 20 children were killed, set the count to zero and start talking about the risk of an ND in school and injuring a child. Thus the only risk that is assessed is from the accidental discharge from a teacher. The risk of intentional murder by a madman is discounted. It would take centuries for 20 children to be accidentally killed by CCW teachers. The school shooter is a known threat and yet officials attention is drawn to the miniscule risk of armed teachers over and over. When there is gun fire within a school while LEO’s wait outside, don’t they think to themselves, “it’s really terrible that those poor souls have nothing with which to defend themselves”. Why can’t they and the politicians hold that thought after the massacre is over.
I think the point of a lot of the cop bashing here is the apparent hypocrisy :
” You don’t come to our defense, OK fine, but you won’t let us defend ourselves. BUT, if your the only ones allowed to have the weapons to take this madman out, then GOD DAMN IT, DO IT!”
A child expects to go home each night, a cop should accept, he may not.
Maybe not.
http://bearingarms.com/sandy-hook-shooting-summary-report-triggers-misinformation-before-it-is-even-released/
Um maybe yes. A victims parent already told the paper that Sedensky told them CSP and Newtown PD entered simultaneously. If thats disinfo, they are calling the dead kid’s parent a liar.
“Circle up the wagons and wait for the calvary… not you Smith, you are the calvary!”
Kinda hurts the wait for the professionals argument, huh?
Screw this, that day took all my rights away and most of the state school systems are now spending millions putting armed guards in place.
So my rights were thrown away for????
Wow… speechless.
Do we know the gender of the first responder?
I wonder in what reasoning world this would matter? Women cops are equal to the men, are they not?
Retards. Seriously yall are brain dead stupid. You mental midgets think Johnny Rambo can do it all by himself. If that one officer did go by himself and gets shot then what? Another officer has to go in and get him AND complete the mission. Its called TACTICS….pure and simple. Please don’t tell me any of you idiots served in the military……you will just embarrass yourself.
Congratulations! You win the Saturday Charm Award. Are you going to Disney World?
There are quite a few wild comments on here from uninformed. The national protocol for response to an active shooter is to WAIT for at least 3 officers before entering. Similar to a military ‘wedge’ formation, the officers enter at the same time to increase the chances of eliminating the threat. There is a ‘lone wolf’ protocol when other officers aren’t available; however it is not advised because the odds are stacked against a single cop. Instead of bashing the cops maybe you should be writing your congressman to encourage better protection in the schools. Most schools have no armed protection in place but have plenty of locked doors and unarmed teachers. Why did Congress boost TSA staffing and funding so much after 9/11 but take NO action to safeguard our kids?
Hit the nail on the head Pat!
HORSE FEATHERS.
I can’t speak for all PD’s, but this is accurate AFAIK.
I believe it’s inaccurate, as well.
None of this surprises me, and this is what people should expect if there is a shooter in their home. This is more the reason everyone should invest in their own home defense and family protection – no one is going to do it for you.
This has me thinking of the concept of an honorable death, a good death. It would be preferable to die trying than to be found in this situation.
It is men like
Ernest E. Evans
Who can say thing like
“This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can.”
That make me proud to be AMERICAN!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_E._Evans#Medal_of_Honor_citation
I can only hope I have the courage to die such a good death.
1. I am a current and full-time LEO and a father. I have attended active shooter training with the agency as well as on my own time and my own money. My decision to enter an active shooter situation will be based on my convictions. I believe my quick reaction and immediate intervention into an active shooter situation will save lives of innocents as the shooter(s) will have to contend with me instead of taking innocent lives. This is my belief, conviction and plan. It also fulfills the oath I took.
2. I know and work with many LEOs. Most are great men and women who have and will continue to put their lives on the line for each of us as citizens of this great nation. They deserve at the very least some level of respect for these actions. They further deserve (as we all do) not to be judged by the actions of one or the few who don’t stand as tall as they should.
Lorne, the delayed response is to maximize body count. The body count is to maximize public antipathy towards guns.
I wish you the best of luck, and I applaud your courage. In an active-shooter situation, expect orders to stay back. Do what your heart says is the right thing to do. Bless you.
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