It’s amazing how a potential felony charge can focus the bureaucratic mind. Gonzaga U. students Erik Fagan and Dan McIntosh had their guns confiscated in a midnight raid by university police after a recent defensive gun use. They say they were unaware that they were violating school policy by keeping their legally owned firearms in their off-campus university-owned apartment. When Gonzaga’s rent-a-cops weren’t cooperative when the two tried to retrieve their heaters, the young scholars reported the guns as stolen to the Spokane PD. Now, khq.com reports that the GLOCK and shotgun have been returned . . .

Gonzaga students Dan McIntosh and Erik Fagan have now acquired their weapons that were taken from them by campus security four hours after they fended off a home intruder on October 24th. Weapons any place on the G.U. campus or at any university residence is prohibited. McIntosh said that they did not know they could pick them up immediately until KHQ informed them of an e-mail we received from the university stating that they could have their guns back. The only restriction was that the students had to move the weapons off campus to a non-university residence which would be in compliance with the weapons policy.

Fagan and McIntosh have been put on probation by the university for their policy violation, so as long as they keep their noses clean, they’ll be allowed to complete their degrees in eastern Washington. But if they plan to stay in the university’s gun-free housing, they’ll have to ditch the mohaskas and take their chances like everyone else.

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74 COMMENTS

  1. The university didn’t have a choice.They could have returned the hardware now, or later after a superior court revoked their authority to regulate guns on their campus.

    Liberals hate being ovveridden by a branch of government.It’s like an argument between angry lesbians.

    • Please note that these guns were never on campus. They were on OFF CAMPUS university owned apartments. If the students push this as a civil rights violation they will win. Case law has already determined that city owned hosing may NOT prohibit the legal ownership/possession of firearms.

      • One little problem, Gonzaga is a private school. I live in Spokane. Personally, I’d move to a apt. that wasn’t owned by Gonzaga, but everything around that school is horridly expensive.

    • Hmmmm. Maybe someone should start a fundraiser for a security deposit so these guys can move off-campus!

    • Many campus cops are sworn officers of a local PD, city, or municipality. Clearly does not seem the case here, but something to remember before treating campus cops like private security. Always assume a uniform is LEO, and shut up! Seems like these guys played it properly. And are continuing to play it correctly.
      .

      • I know that, my comment was for this specific case, and just because the gestapo is at the door dosent mean you have to capitulate.

      • So let me understnd your stance: if in a uniform, treat as a LEO even if they are breaking the law with illegal entry, and confiscation? No search warrent, and I am not sure about Washington state, but I understand that a landlord must give advance warning of entering the dwelling. Knocking on the door, then letting themselves in, and confiscating property without a warrant? I don’t care who you are, they’re (security) lucky they didnt get shot by the students for comming in unannounced to the apartment.

        This is a good show of how we allow our rights to be frittered away. No warrant? No entry. No advance notice? No entry. Simple

        • When you rent an apartment from a university or any landlord, always change the door locks. If the landlord complains, you know they were trying to get in without you being there and without notice – which is, in pretty much every state, illegal. You can buy new knob lock and deadbolt sets for about $20 each – they are quite easy to swap out, and you take your set with you when you leave. Very simple privacy fix, as long as you can use a Phillips-head screwdriver.

        • When it comes to campus regulations and how they interact with state laws, funny things can happen.

          When I stayed on campus, the paperwork authorized the University to enter my residence without prior consent in the event of “a crisis of security” or equivalent language.Since policy required me to stay on campus ,my hand was forced on that matter.

          Some states, like California, have laws forbidding guns on any university property under penalty of criminal law in addition to the university level restrictions.In those cases -which thankfully isn’t true in Washington apparently-the cops won’t need the landlord permission to seize the weapons, since having them in the apartment would be a crime.

        • Idaho Pete,
          One time I left out of town for about a week. Neighbors upstairs had a flood.
          Yeah, my place was also flooded and when the water guys came to de-flood it they could not get in because the office didn’t have the right key. Sooooo they KICKED the door in, did their job, and basically left my front door unlocked for the entire week until I got home. Thankfully nothing was missing, but I had to pay for the door. Apparently something in the lease authorized them to do this.

        • I was renting a long time ago and came home one afternoon to find maintenance people and the property manager in the house looking at pipes from the apartment above.
          No call not even a clue they were in my house uninvited.
          When i came through the door I heard voices upstairs and drew my .38 I happend to be carrying and went upstairs to see WTF was going on. Lucky for them I saw the ladder and they didn’t make any moves towards me.
          This was in the era of cell phones and they had my number. If a pipe had issues and they needed access they should have called me. And they probably should have some indication on the door they were in there, like a sign hanging on the knob.
          Of course they looked at me like a rabid gun nut. I told them both I didn’t know what to expect and was obligated to make sure someone didn’t have my wife tied up upstairs.
          I changed the locks the next day and told them if they need access they need to call. This didn’t sit well with them and they strutted out the lease with fine print about retaining access for emergencies. I told them take the door down in a fire.
          We moved a short time later.

          • Back in the 80s I was working night shifts. I was in bed asleep when the manager of maintenance came into my bedroom at a townhouse we rented. It was the spare room because I could keep it dark. I downed him face down on the carpet with a .45 acp to the back of his head. They called and knocked after that.

  4. Just because a thief returns an item doesn’t mean there was no crime committed. In addition, why should they have to go pick up anything? The campus public safety- or whatever- drove to seize them, they can drive to return them.

    • Yep. Which makes this whole episode kinda funny since Eastern Washington is supposed to be more pro-gun than Western Washington… *shrug*

      Hope Gonzaga leaves these 2 young men alone and lets them graduate.

      • There is no requirement that academia reflect the values of the surrounding community. In fact, to those within academia (or as some call it, “the church”) it is their mission to spread the good news of progressivism to the unwashed masses living in the hinterlands.

  6. Not to mention that the University better cough up big bucks for dedicated security to all apartments now, or be sued later. They’re now on notice that their security is inadequate and they’ve left students without any means of self-protection.

    • The university will probably arm all residents with a copy of the campus housing regulations. In the event of an attack they are to read the regs aloud to the attackers, who are expected to either run away in confusion or fall asleep.

    • I am SHOCKED! SHOCKED! to see your lack of faith in the safety of campus housing designated as a gun-free zone.

  8. Agreed, thank them for the guns, and continue with the pressing of charges. Like I said in another post, it is time for gun activists to stop playing defense and start playing offense. Stop cutting our losses and win some ground. Getting the guns back and being put on probation was cutting losses, winning a felony conviction against the university for theft would be winning ground.

    • Yes.

      Of course, it’s easier said than done…these guys are trying to finish school, and as far as I know it takes money to make a good lawsuit. If they had money, they wouldn’t have been living in that crappy apartment in the first place.

      But man, it would be nice to get a push going in the other direction for once. This could be a fairly easy win, too. Gonzaga violated all sorts of laws when they went in and seized those guns. Somebody needs to let the Progressives in Charge know that they can’t just charge in and do whatever they want because #OMGguns!. They broke the law, abused their tenants’ rights, and stole someone else’s property under the guise of authority. They should be absolutely hammered for it.

      • Who among us wouldn’t kick in a few bucks so they can pursue this lawsuit? In the internet age anyone can do anything if enough people get in on it.

      • Pressing criminal charges against the over reaching security guys shouldn’t cost any money. Swear out a complaint, probably at the DAs office and then set back and let the wheels turn.

        Now a lawsuit would cost money. They can offer to let an attorney take his fees out of the settlement if he wins.

        • Let’s see… if a bank robber had a change of heart and returned all the money stolen, I guarantee he’d still be charged. Theft of a firearm is a serious offense. Returning the guns doesn’t erase the crime.

  9. These young men seem to be just that, men, by now usually a helicopter mom or dad has appeared on the scene. They seem to be handeling it like adults.
    Of course I know that my now graduated son would have called and consulted with me and his attorney uncle.

  10. I hope these guys have some good legal representation, as I bet being able to keep that theft charge in their back pocket will be handy for ensuring the university treats them fairly and allows them to complete their degrees.

  11. So, the University, having empirically demonstrated that they can not/will not protect the students, insists that they may not be equiped to protect themselves, after demonstrating that they can do so.

    This smells like an awesome set-up for a great lawsuit.

    Get sum…..

  12. as a recent graduate of college and someone who won’t discuss his gun ownership during that period of time.

    FINALLY, we get some things happening in the right direction without a huge friggin debate.

    oh, and whoever said about these two being “men” and dealing with the problems for the most part on their own, you couldn’t have said it better.

  13. These two young men are now on the university’s radar, and not in a good way. The admins and profs are the same kind of people who accused, tried and convicted innocent lacrosse players at Duke even when the evidence of their innocence was right before their eyes.

    I would advise the two roomies to find a 2A advocating attorney to torture the university until they graduate. It will help insulate them from retaliation, which I suspect is coming. They may even get a nice parting gift along with their degrees.

    • LOL – the two young men remain in their apartment, but the two guns are now stored at their attorney’s office. Evidence for a pending court case, no doubt…..

      BTW, the university does NOT own the apartment complex – they lease it. They can still make whatever rules they like, but it is hard to say with a straight face that it is “University property”.

      JD

      • That’s a good point. Given that it’s not actually on University property, their legal standing seems to be shaky at best in that circumstance. As long as the student is paid up, it seems like the domicile (not on University property) within is theirs with all constitutional rights intact.

        • At best (or worst, actually) the plonkers could terminate the lease — but not confiscate personal property.

          Mesmells litigation.

        • Not fluent in the laws of WA but I believe the general rule is that any contract or portion of a contract (lease) that is unlawful is unenforceable (see unconscionable contracts). I don’t think the university had any right to restrict firearms possession on off campus property they rented and as such evicting these two for having firearms would seem to me to violate several renter/tenant-lessor/landlord laws that could further land the university in hot water civilly.

          I would kick in a little to get these guys an attorney to do just what Ralph said, torment the university until these guys have degrees, and perhaps some walking around money to boot. In the end it provides an object lesson to universities who take on powers they are not entitled too and that is the larger mission.

  14. I worked 2 jobs for more than 20 years. 1 of my favorite side gigs was security. It’s one of the least demanding jobs out there. People go to school full time and work full time as security. Retired granma’s work in security. It’s a job that just doesn’t demand a lot of you.

    I’ve worked in hospitals, gated communities(Saw John Maddens bus more than once) warehouses, waterfronts, hotels etc.

    When we had trouble in security it was almost always the fault of a security guy that thought the dime store badge and costume made him a cop.
    Amazing the attitude change that comes over some people from just a cheap uniform.

    These university rent a cops sound like they are that type. Get them arrested for stealing guns and let the system remove any doubts from them as to their status as cops.

  15. So if their guns are offsite now, and they have another encounter with a BG, do they get to file suit for 2a rights being taken away?

  16. I found it interesting that the school told a reporter, but not the students, that they could go retrieve their property.

    If I were one of these guys, I’d be tempted to not get them until I was informed personally that they were agreeing to return them.

    And I would definitely check the serial numbers and take them to a good gunsmith to check for tampering or damage.

    • I found it interesting that the school told a reporter, but not the students, that they could go retrieve their property.

      Well, that tells you what they find important – the bad press they got, and who they feel beholden to – anyone who controls funding who might start asking what they’re doing.

      On the one hand, that’s kind of outrageous. On the other, that tells you where to apply leverage.

      The kids and their lawyer ought to get themselves an interview with the press who were notified in lieu of the actual, you know, people involved. Make that point, and lay down markers on camera for anticipated harassment, and the risk of living in the sketchy area. You can bet the administratroids will pay way more attention to that piece on TV than any conversation they might pretend to have with the kids or their lawyer.

  17. In the end, they were not beaten, robbed or murdered. So being armed was a good idea–regardless of the policies. I carried a pistol throughout both college and law school. During undergrad, it was an actual crime. During law school, it merely violated policy. Neither deterred me. Regardless of what some hippy professors choose to ignore, I know that evil exists in the world. And I will prepare myself to deal with it. So I carry discretely and I learned to conceal well. These guys can do the same. Next time, maybe they just won’t call the cops. Once you’ve defeated the bad guy, leave it at that. There really isn’t a need for a report documenting your heroism.

    • I think you mean starry-eyed idealists, rather than hippies.

      Hippies have tended to be abused by non-hippies on enough occasions that while they might be all about peace and love, and have no desire to engage in “imerialist” war, they tend toward the Old Testament maxim of “If a man comes to slay you, slay him first.” Ths applies to retired hippies as well.

      Sarty-eyed idealists, on the other hand, aren’t all that competent outside of whatever subject they teach — and English 250 won’t help anyone talk a bad guy into good behavior.

      Anyway, I’m sure glad that the Real Leos struck a blow for Truth and Justice against the Fake Leos.

      Yay!

  19. The “where” information as to what state “Gonzaga University is is contained in your original “who/what/why/where/where/ article, RIGHT?

    • Gonzaga University, a private, four-year institution of higher education. More than 105 buildings dot the 131-acre campus overlooking the Spokane River. Students include both women and men, who can enroll in a multitude of undergraduate or graduate programs. Enrollment for the 2009-10 academic year was 7,837 students.

      • Thanks so much for the information, Blue. So, as I asked, am I correct that Gonzaga University is a “131-acre campus overlooking the Spokane River. Students include both women and men, who can enroll in a multitude of undergraduate or graduate programs. Enrollment for the 2009-10 academic year was 7,837 students, in the state of”

        Excellent information, and thanks so much for following the rule of the FIVE Ws.

        • FYI, the original post mentioned both “the Spokane PD” (police) and “eastern Washington”. I think most people got the connection the first time.

          But I am very aware than a very large number of people simply are clueless about the Pacific Northwest….. Spokane is the fourth largest city in the Northwest, is located on the Dry Side of Washington, and is well away (six hours by car) from the unruly zoo that is called Seattle.

          John Davies
          Spokane WA USA

          • I admit I’m clueless about the northwestern US. To me, Gonzaga is a high school for the deaf in DC.

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