The attorney general of the United States must be really busy these days. Too busy, apparently, to have noted that Florida’s ‘stand your ground’ law played absolutely no role in the murder trial, much less the exoneration, of George Zimmerman. Details. The AG spoke to a meeting of the NAACP in Orlando this afternoon and declared his distaste for SYG: “These laws try to fix something that was never broken. The list of resulting tragedies is long and, unfortunately, has victimized too many who are innocent.” Any opportunity to erode Americans’ ability to exercise their right to armed self defense must be exploited. Better the dark days of ‘duty to retreat.”And who better to lead that charge than the man who wants nothing more than to use government-funded schools to “brainwash people,” making guns socially unacceptable.

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121 COMMENTS

  1. Good thing Indiana doesn’t have a SYG law. Ours is “no duty to retreat”.

    Also, In reference to the “trying to fix” part… Indiana has had no duty to retreat since the 1800’s. So, ours is not some copycat law.

    • The mother of all ironies is that so does Illinois. With the passage of a CCW bill, we went from one of the most anti-gun states in the union to slightly left of the middle of the road.

    • This is why I read the comments, you can always learn or explore. Never knew that, I do love Indy more and glad I moved here…plus my parents seem to be more happier since moving our businesses to Indy and that we make more with the tax breaks and great workers.

      • yup…many times the comments are as informative as the original article (no offense RF)

    • Florida never did either until some over zealous prosecutors got away with several cases creating a series of bad precedent cases. It therefore depending on jurisdiction and/or prosecutor. That is why witches like Angela Corey don’t like it.

    • Obvious criminal, proven liar, race baiter, and possible traitor….. Repugnant does even start to describe him. Other men have quit in shame for less.

    • I’m glad it’s not just me. He is by far the skeeviest “official” to hold an office in years. If Obama ever actually meant any of the bullshit he spews, he would run him out on a rail- he is the antithesis to accountability, reasonable, and respectable. He doesn’t give a damn about the roles or the limits of his job, and I don’t think this country will ever begin to “truly heal” until we see him in handcuffs.

      • “He is by far the skeeviest “official” to hold an office in years.”

        Let’s not forget Rumsfeld and Cheney, two of the most corrupt individuals to ever hold public office.

        I’m not saying Holder’s any better, but he’s really no worse than the usual trash we put in Washington.

        • You are right about Rumsfield and Cheney. However, they were not Saul Alinsky type radicals either. These types are not just after money, they want to turn us into Bolshevik Soviet Union.

        • Wrong. Neither of them were expected to enforce the law. Having a crook in the seat of the head federal law enforcement position is far, far worse.

    • Government will always try to make things in society worse because they know the people sheep will turn to them for solutions thus justifying them taxing us stealing from us and living easy with little to no accountability.

  3. This man is in more dire need of a change of careers since any AG in history. His lack of understanding of the law, of ethics, and of history is surpassed only, marginally, by my 13 year old daughter. And she has the excuse of being 13.

    • I can’t really buy into the lack of understanding or incompetence excuses anymore. It’s obvious that their tactics show a willful disregard and contempt for the rule of law.

    • Holder doesn’t need a change of careers, he simply needs to change his suit. I’m thinking bright orange would look great on him.

  4. The attorney general of the US bust….

    Let me guess, you were thinking of your next hyperlink? Lol

  7. A reliable way to discern a good law is to check and see if government villains such as Holder are against it.

  8. Well, I think Obummercare stinks, so tough-titties. SYG’s the law in 30 states, until it’s the law of 31.

    Love the thought processes of him and that “Constitutional Law” scholar he hangs with. It’s like each is a remora stuck to the other’s butt. How much progress can you make in that kind of position. Once again, the “Great Uniter” and his pals are the great dividers. Trying to make hay out of non-relevant issues. That’s the lib-tard credo.

    • Rev Al and company are holding his feet to the fire to go after Z with federal charges. He knows that’s impractical if not impossible, so he’s using the non-issue of SYG for his escape clause. Not too many people understand the concept of SYG beyond what Piers Morgan and his ilk have to say about it. That makes it a good red herring for Holder to dangle.

      • I guess you did not hear, but Fat Al is going after SYG too. Like in the gun control debate, never let a crises or facts get in the way.

        • Actually, I did hear. Still Holder’s way of placating Sharpton. Because most Americans don’t understand the concept of SYG, nor do they know it wasn’t an issue in this trial, it will be an easy attack for Holder and make him look concerned. In the end he’ll do nothing but for now he has to make some noise. I’m sure he welcomes this distraction and he’ll fuel it for as long as he can..

      • Exactly. Every anti-gun jackass keeps claiming that SYG lets you shoot first and ask questions later when that’s absolutely NOT the case. SYG requires you to be in the same danger as normal self-defense laws, it merely removes the duty to retreat and assumes by default that the person defending themselves is innocent and the prosecution must prove their guilt. Without SYG, if you use your gun in defense you are assumed guilty and must prove your innocence.

        • “Without SYG, if you use your gun in defense defend yourself in any way you are assumed guilty and must prove your innocence.”

          There, fixed that for you.

        • They are doing their best to misinform the public and whip up anti SYG sentiment with obsfication and race baiting.

        • I’ve seen that a couple of times about SYG NOT being any part of this. What is the difference between SYG and what GZ’s defense team argued? Serious question, looking for info.

          • Even (3) is the SYG part of Florida 776.013. It clearly states “who is attacked” and also states “who has a right to be there.” The statute doesn’t apply to people committing a felony either. Therefore, the whole “shoot first” crap is just that, crap. Regardless, Zim used straight self defense.

        • @soccerdad1150: GZ’s attorneys argued straight self-defense. Simply answered, the difference between straight self-defense and SYG is the ability to retreat. The SYG statute says you have no duty to retreat prior to defending yourself, the implication being that you have the ability to do so. If you do not have the ability to do so, i.e. you’re on your back getting beaten into the ground (or for that matter, backed into an enclosed space), then it’s not a SYG case, it’s simple self-defense.

          For Florida, Justifiable Use of Force can be found here, and the SYG specific section can be found here, Section (3).

    • It wasn’t but try telling Treyvon Martin supporters this.

      They’re absolutely convinced that because MSNBC said SYG SYG SYG! it applies within the case.

      Idiots. Treyvon would be embarrassed to know he has such idiotic followers.

  10. The context hes using strikes me as amazingly racist. Why tell the NAACP that removing a duty to retreat from an assailant woukd benefit them and their supporters? Isnt he kind of saying “ill make it safer for you NAACP people to assault whomever you like wherever you like.”

    At least thats what Im getting from this bizarre position of his.

  11. “These laws try to fix something that was never broken.”

    If a person has to prove they had no where to run over fear for their life, I would call that broken.

  14. This guy is a racist thug like his boss. Sorry, but the race problems in this country aren’t caused by white people anymore but by people like Obama, Holder, and the members of the NAACP who still think the US of today is no different than Selma of the 50’s.

    The biggest bigots I’ve met recently are black.

    • NAACP needs racism. It’s their reason for being. If it’s not there, then they’ll conjure it.

  15. Holder is a corrupt, disgraceful roach. He needs to confine his firearms commentaries to Fast and Furious, and the Obunga coverups, and his ignoring a Contempt of Congress citation… this is a criminal administration… in so many ways.

  18. So, if I am given the clear right to stand and defend myself from a violent intruder in my home, the result has “victimized too many who are innocent”? How?

    • All the innocent men who have broken into homes. Because, I suppose, they thought they were breaking into their own homes, but were mistaken.

    • Think of all those innocent muggers who really just wanted to use the contents of someone else’s wallet to get their lives back on track. It’s a tragedy, up with which we shall not put.

  20. Holder and the department he heads is responsible for more deaths than Zimmerman ever has been. He is a defender of terrorists, liar, convicted of contempt of Congress, accessory to murder, racist and should be in jail.

  21. Didn’t Al Sharpton call Obama “Nigger” off-air while being filmed by Fox?

    Notice he hasn’t returned….

    Wonder what they would call Holder behind his back?

    Holder should watch out for those NAACP thugs in $k suits.

  22. Here’s a thought. If you don’t violently attack someone, they won’t have to shoot you. They are making this crap out like Zimmerman came up and whacked Skittles Tony Soprano style or something. And the ignorant mobs they pander to eat it right up.

  23. The “race baiters” have made a crisis out of this….

    And you know what they say about a crisis….

    Never let one go to waste!

    Just following the obungler playbook!

  24. actually, this is a good thing. It will help galvanize support against the administration as factual cases about the benefits of SYG helping citizens protect themselves and victims suffering withouth it. . . . . thanks Eric. Perfect timing for 2014 elections. It would have been wiser to wait until much later to gin up the visceral reaction you knew was coming. . . . ..

    • Except the opposition (Republicans) are inept dimwits. Better hope the people spend a lot more time reading blogs and ignoring MSM.

      Truth/fact/reason are becoming ever more lonely.

      But, I still hope you’re right.

  25. The strategy is simple.

    Directly attcking gun ownership leads to lawsuits ,loopholes,and slight risk of judicial repeal.

    By making self defense a legal crime,people give up owning guns and the will of the opposition is carried out by proxy.Why defend yourself with a gun when you’ll do more time then the scumbag?

    • TO: Carl
      RE: WTF?

      It’s hard to ‘retreat’ when you’re on your back with someone on your chest trying to use your head to hammer through the pavement.

      So Stand Your Ground is not in play with Zimmerman/Martin.

      Regards,

      Chuck(le)
      [When there is no other direction to go in, attacking forward is your only option.]

    • Yeah thats what I said. What the F^ck…Over

      Nothing irritates me on the internet, but this truly got me fuming.

      Thats what people dont seem to understand: SYG was not invoked and Zimmerman was in a situation where it would have been legal to use his firearm to defend himself in almost every state in the union… 0__o

      Can anyone please provide statistics about the “innocents” being victimized by SYG laws???

      I mean anything. I’ve searched and searched and am damn near close to putting out a reward.

    • That’s no reason for him not to try and disarm Americans so that his bros can attack them safely on the city streets.

  28. All the Feds can do is prohibit SYG on Federal property. They have no authority to order the states to repeal the law. It’s just more Obama double talk to con his base.

  29. TO: Eric Holder
    RE: Too Many ‘Innocents’ Hurt?

    Let’s see the statistics, buckie.

    Regards,

    Chuck(le)
    [The Truth will out….Holder is as much a liar as Jay Carney…..]

  30. “These laws try to fix something that was never broken. The list of resulting tragedies is long and, unfortunately, has victimized too many who are innocent.”

    Hummmm… sounds like all of the gun control laws that Eric and his buddies have been trying to ram through Congress.

  31. Let me see if I understand the message… real men, real Americans, when confronted with deadly force threats, know that the best course is to run and hide, to cower in fear because we’re enlightened enough to have abandoned our weapons, and then call the police, the TSA, and the UN, who will provide housing benefits, food stamps, and counseling to the misguided, socially disadvantaged person who confronted them in the first place. Did I miss anything?

    Oh wait, almost forgot. Think of the children.

    • Yes, that is the message. The communists in our government and others want as much chaos and mayhem as possible for two reasons:
      (a) It makes as many people as possible dependent on government and strengthens their positions.
      (b) It weakens the patriots and diminishes their ability to challenge those communists in power.

  33. Can we stop the sensationalism? Eric Holder reveals he doesn’t like SYG laws to the NAACP. Big surprise there. He’s not doing anything about it, because it’s outside the constitutional scope of his authority.

    • Better to be sensational about every move these corrupt freaks make than to sit one out, rely on the constitution alone, and find ourselves bending over down the road because we didn’t make a fuss out of it from the get go.

    • Normally, I’d absolutely agree, but where Eric Holder is concerned, never, ever, EVER can we give this son of a bitch even an inch. We have to watch this prick like we’re hunting Sasquatch.

  34. He has known ties (and probably direct action) to Fast and
    Furious and connection to multiple scandals in this
    administration. He has used his position to justify selling
    weapons to drug lords, the targeting of conservative
    individuals, enable voter intimidation, and refusal to
    prosecute those who have had any part in these scandals.

    The only thing I find more repugnant than this man is that
    even after all this AND being held in contempt of Congress,
    there’s not enough spine among our elected “representatives”
    to oust him, let alone prosecute him.

  35. If you think about it dispassionately, his ability to avoid repercussions for the bad acts of this administration in general, and the DOJ specifically, is really quite amazing.

    • Yeah this Teflon administration has gotten pretty good at making sure no one is left ‘Holden’ the bag. So to speak.

  36. Thank God for this site! I mean really. The mainstream media is completely off the rails as is our government. Thank you TTAG for creating an outlet for people that can actually realize that our government and society are corrupt, perhaps beyond repair.

  37. Holder arranged the Mark Rich Presidential Pardon under Clinton. Does one need any other evidence as to his moral turpitude ?
    What bothers me is that he is ignoring all the proven advise that can be found both in The Prince and Tsun Tsu, but then again maybe he’s going for street cred

  38. Of course holder declared war on SYG. He and his boss are already at war with the constitution.

  39. I thought Alberto Gonzales was terrible. Holder has blown Alberto out of the water as worst AG imo. Barry will probably keep his sorry ass for the duration as well.

    • Seriously. I was emphatically not a fan of the Bush administration because they were doing blatantly unconstitutional things under the excuse of “keeping us safe”. Obama’s administration makes them look like reincarnations of the Founding Fathers by comparison.

  40. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

    Isn’t this the same dude who essentially gave guns to the cartels? I don’t think I want to live on this planet anymore.

    • JFT, pull the cord directly above your seat and when the planet comes to a complete halt, step off. Another planet will be along shortly.

  41. This just in: The NAACP has collected 1 million signatures petitioning
    the DoJ to bring federal civil rights charges against George Zimmerman.
    Well, there you have it, the NAACP is calling for the DoJ to bend to the
    will of a petition, in other words, mob rule. Holder was just waving the
    bloody hoody at the NAACP convention here in Orlando. Talk about the
    fortuitous alignment of the trial, the NAACP convention, and Holder as
    our esteemed AG. Do you think that someone in the court coordinated
    the trial to happen around the same time that the NAACP was in town?
    Interestingly, the Judge abruptly refused to extend anymore stays to
    Zimmerman’s defense team,…to postpone the trial until Aug. or Sept.
    Hmmm? Is that sort of thing,..possible,…or probable?

    • From a comment over at legalinsurrection.com:

      I know a guy who sent them the following email:

      I have information that Mr. Zimmerman was involved in selling illegal guns to Mexican Nationals. Hit me back. This is big. Muy grande.

      Sincerely,

  44. So this administration wants to turn the United States into another Great Britain where there is no legal protection for individuals to defend themselves with firearms, while trying to disarm the country.

  45. The problem for Holder is that some of us make a hobby of reading SCOTUS case law.

    First, we have Beard v. United States, 158 U.S. 550 (1895):

    http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/158/550/case.html

    “A man assailed on his own grounds, without provocation, by a person armed with a deadly weapon and apparently seeking his life is not obliged to retreat, but may stand his ground and defend himself with such means as are within his control; and so long as there is no intent on his part to kill his antagonist, and no purpose of doing anything beyond what is necessary to save his own life, is not guilty of murder or manslaughter if death results to his antagonist from a blow given him under such circumstances.”

    There’s that language: “…stand his ground…” – in a SCOTUS decision from 1895.

    Well, where does that language appear again in a SCOTUS decision? In 1921, Brown v. United States, 256 U.S. 335 (1921).

    http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/256/335/case.html

    “The right of a man to stand his ground and defend himself when attacked with a deadly weapon, even to the extent of taking his assailant’s life, depends upon whether he reasonably believes that he is in immediate danger of death or grievous bodily harm from his assailant, and not upon the detached test whether a man of reasonable prudence, so situated, might not think it possible to fly with safety or to disable his assailant, rather than kill him. P. 256 U. S. 343. Beard v. United States, 158 U. S. 550.”

    There’s that “stand his ground” term of art again. A very nice quote from this case is as follows:

    “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife. Therefore, in this Court at least, it is not a condition of immunity that one in that situation should pause to consider whether a reasonable man might not think it possible to fly with safety or to disable his assailant, rather than to kill him.”

    In short, the SCOTUS has case law on the books wherein there is no duty to retreat. The “Stand Your Ground” laws codify this issue at a state level. Some states have legislated a duty to retreat (the vermin posing as legislators in MA come to mind), whereas the efforts to codify an explicit lack of duty to retreat in other states are merely seeking to short-circuit future possible court decisions putting CCW holders into a bind with a supposed duty to retreat, which might then need to be litigated to the SCOTUS and get the “no duty to retreat” issue pushed back onto the states.

  46. To an extent, I agree with Holder – in a truly just society there should be no need for SYG laws. But that also implies that the concept encoded in those laws is a common-sense, obvious tenet: that if attacked you should not have to retreat from a place it is legal for you to be. The whole notion of Castle Doctrine and SYG laws became necessary because of misguided philosophy that you had an obligation to escape from your own house, or turn tail and run, if someone accosts you. That concept, which flies in the face of human evolution, is what made it necessary for those laws to be adopted.

    Sure, Eric, I’m fine with getting those laws off the books. But until the courts universally recognize and agree with the concept behind them, let’s just keep them in place, okay?

  47. Interim elections are going to be interesting. The Republican’s were up sh*t creek without a paddle last election and then the gun control Democrats, the IRS, the Justice Department, and the Executive Branch essentially handed them a 300 hp Evinrude.

    -D

  48. Eric Holder is running through the Saul Alinsky play book. The fact is, he doesn’t believe in self defense period. He is also wrong and a liar. The Castle Doctrine and SYG did in fact fix 2 major problems with over zealous prosecutors. In certain parts of Florida, you were expected to jump out of your bed room window and run away while your wife or daughter was being raped and killed. If you shot the perp, you would be arrested and sent to the Grand Jury even if it was deemed self defense. If you were being car jacked in Orlando at a Red Light, you were expected to run it to get away as a first option.

    Remember, Holder sent rabble from the DOJ down to organize protests last year. This was a set up from the get go to go after Castle Doctrine/SYG and CCW Licenses. The thing is, SYG wasn’t used as a defense by Zimmerman.

    Frankly, Holder should be fired and disbarred for Fast & Furious, the AP taps, IRS etc.

  50. The Attorney General of the United States has no knowledge of American history, the American psyche and completely lacks common sense. Or he does and there is another game afoot.

  51. Holder at NAACP conference SYG laws
    “senselessly expand the concept of self-defense”
    You mean that the US Constitution “senselessly expands the concept of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”
    He really does not have any idea or clue what he sounds like.
    Holder is dangerous!

  52. Mr Farago & Matt in FL,

    I was taught in Uncle Sam’s Confused Group that plagerism is the finest form of flattery. Towards that end I borrowed some of your eloquent wordsmithing to send to Senator Cruz.

    Thanks to you both!

  53. Holder is just an Obama Stooge and saying what his O-Boss-man has instructed him to say, Al Sharpton is doing the same, along with any number of “Leaders” of the African-American population.
    What better way for Obama to get his revenge on the People of the Gun than to get Statewide movements going amongst the Democrats to mess with Self-Defense, SYG and Castle Laws? Make any gun owner who uses a firearm to defend his/her home a declared “danger to society”, as in the UK, and change these Laws to make using them as defense in Court nearly impossible, is better than any anti-gun Law Obama has thought of before. The pain will be felt.
    Just tonight Jehmu Greene, another Obama Stooge, was on Hannity making the claim that the statistics about Black-on-Black Crime, and young Black Men committing a disproportionately large number of the Crimes in the US are the result of racist engineered Convictions of said young Black Men which demonstrates how young Black Men are routinely discriminated against in the US Courts. So, that’s the new “spin”. Hold onto your butts, folks, this is going to be a wild ride.

  54. I work in a prison, in a capacity that requires me to review inmates’ files. Over the years, I’ve occasionally seen a file that made me think “There but for the Grace of God go I…” These were generally acts of self-defense from before Arizona enacted its Castle doctrine law.

    I remember one poor soul who pulled a gun out of his glove box when threatened by a criminal who was looting his family’s property (a rental, not their residence), then shot the man when the drunken criminal physically assaulted him. The looter’s friends even testified that he physically assaulted the homeowner, but the law of the time decreed that since he was next to his car, he should have instead gotten into the car and left to get the police. He served 8 years in prison.

    Another fellow was assaulted in his own apartment by his estranged wife’s intoxicated lover. The lover’s friends were watching outside when the homeowner brained him with a bookend. The man served 5.5 years for manslaughter because he didn’t retreat. The prisoner told me that he thought if he fled outside the friends would hold him while the lover hit him…

    Yes, let’s get rid of laws that let people protect themselves, because we need more unfortunates with no criminal history to be locked up for the crime of failure to let criminals prey upon them.

  56. He is speaking to the NAACP,he is telling them what they want to hear,when this GZversusTM,cools down it will be business as usual.A lot of states have laws like the Stand Your Ground law,or one called The Castle Law,where you don’t have to even leave your own home if someone breaks in,to keep from having to shoot them.I believe that the SYG law will be upheld by the Supreme Court,if the DOJ pushes a fight against it.Here in Mississippi,we also have a law that allows a victim to shoot a carjacker,as your vehicle is an extension of your home,also we have a law that protects a concealed carry shooter from civil liability if the shooting is justified.A side note,the State AG has stated an opinion of the judges injunction against our open carry law,the AG has stated that he does not think it is valid for statewide enforcement,just for the county that the judge serves in,also the state Senators and Representatives that requested the injunction,are Democrats,and they are all black as is the judge.Most folks think that us white folks in Mississippi are the bad guys?Afraid not on this issue!This is just more of following what Boobama wants for gun control!Be prepared and ready.Keep your powder dry.

  58. This Idiot orchatrated fast and furious,and won’t step down ,then he and the justice dept sent organizers to Florida to rebel rouse anti Zimmerman marches,Completely Illegal,goes against Federal and anti-trade FTC laws. Then he talks about entertaining ways to HANG Zimmerman for Defending himself against a 6ft 2″ 180 lb THUG ,who was caught twice with stolen goods and burglary tools,loved to sponsor MMA style fights, was trying to purchase a GUN,a total PUNK.,Juvinel delinquit Wantabethug meets wannabe cop,wannabe cop wins.The news media chooses to show pictures of a 12 year old not 17 year old football player kicked out of school for fighting for 55 days.
    Zimmerman had every right to be where he was,Martin assault and batteried him,This so called ” minding his own business ,just getting skittles BS” is completely false.His background compared to Zimmereman’s is one of criminal activities VS Zimmereman’s who helped his community .
    It shows how far down the toilet our country is going when a self defense case is turned into a racial issue .It doesn’t matter what color either of those guys were it was a confrontation that ended with an aggressor meeting a tragic end.
    If you are going to attempt to beat somebody to death just remember ,God made man,Sam Colt made him equal.

  59. The Florida prosecutor should go to jail for this illegal trial and the way it was conducted. The Judge,Debra Nelson should be disbarred for her total bias for the prosecution and her hostility toward the defense by totally stacking the deck against them.Not allowing pertinent information about Martin ‘s past while allowing the prosecution a free reign with Zimmermn’s past,Totally discusting and VERY OBVIOUS to all who watched this kangaroo court.
    Look up Judge Debra Nelson on http://www.robeprobe.com She is one of the worst judges in the country.

  62. Eric Holder should declare war on The “Fast and Furious” gun-running not this. He had to talk to congress before his good buddy shut it down. Now we have the first Attorney General in contempt of Congress.

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