The NRA has just announced its support for additional regulations to be enacted for bump fire stocks. The full statement is available below:
In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented.
Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control. Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks. This is a fact that has been proven time and again in countries across the world.
In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law.
The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.
In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans’ Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities.
To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence.
It looks like the NRA is attempting to head-off Senator Feinstein’s bill at the pass, redirecting bump fire “regulation” (i.e. a ban) to the ATF.
If the ATF doesn’t move, with the NRA providing cover for Republican lawmakers, the bump fire ban bill is a done deal. The only way that could fail: if the Democrats shoot themselves in the foot by overreaching.
If the Dems try to cram more gun control provisions into the bill than a bump fire stock ban, they might inspire the NRA and friendly legislators to withdraw their support and oppose it. And what a mess that would be.
Is it strange that the NRA announced their support for regulating bump fire stocks out of existence before horse-trading for national reciprocity or the silencer deregulating SHARE Act? Or realpolitik?
Oh, the screeching should be absolutely hilarious.
Don’t you have a Glock to try and suck start?
How many Glocks would a Woodcock cock if a Woodcock could cock Glocks?
You can have my bump stock Sig brace green tipped can cannon when you pry it from my cold dead hands.
I would never own a Glock, ew.
I’m against a bump stock ban. But those of you out there “demanding” your MACHINE GUN rights. You can kiss that goodbye.
I can’t wait to hear you say a bump stock is bad and a true machine gun is good.
The 1934 gun control act is here to stay. The Hughes Amendment, 1986, is here to stay.
I can make a case for the bump stock. Just as I can make a case for the MG. Both are for self defense. Depending on where you live the bump stock is lower in price than the MG tax stamp cost.
The bump stock is the poor mans machine gun.
Now it seems only “rich white men” will own machine guns.
It sad and it makes me angry. People of the gun are either cowards or just plain ignorant of the self defense history using machine guns by American civilians.
I’d say a machinegun is a poor man’s machinegun, since poor men are disproportionately represented in violent crime and in killing eachother with guns. It is cheaper to make machineguns with string and a key ring….. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/daniel-zimmerman/when-a-shoe-string-is-a-machine-gun/
…. than to buy a bumpfire stock or obey the law. They want to ban bump fire stocks thats fine…. the LV guy still had illegal machineguns and everybody is ignoring that, because they all know they cant do anything about it. Blaming bumpfire stocks is an easy political “out” for everybody. This article is a fluff opinion piece meant to make everyone happy.
Machine guns will be allowed again and will be first started by a State under States Rights.
“People of the gun are either cowards or just plain ignorant” ????????
People are either cowards or just plain ignorant.
Fixed it for you.
SCREEEEEECH!!!! But will trade bump stocks for NATIONAL RECIPROCITY.
… AND suppressors.
Both. Not either / or.
No more giving shit up without two shits in return.
Traitors.
Shall not be infringed.
I’ll not expend any capital over these stupid-ass bump fire stocks. I’m not going to look like an a$$hole to non-firearm people.
I joined NRA as a Life Member after Sandy Hook. I know when to fight.
If we give an INCH they will most certainly take a MILE.
Sweetheart, you will be very, very fortunate of the only thing ‘banned’ is stupid-ass bumpfire stocks.
Tim, you would be a fool to think they will stop here. The end goal for the left is complete disarmament of the public. Then comes the removal of those they disagree with. Always has been the case. Always will be.
I don’t own one, I don’t see any practical use for one but an attempt by constitutional opponents to ban it would only result in disappointment from the lack of any measurable reduction in violence and an invigorated desire to ban the next scary thing/part/magazine/etc.
Not. One. Inch.
I would trade my (correction your) bump stock for NATIONAL RECIPROCITY.
And by giving in now, you’re telling them that you’re spineless and to keep bullying for more bans because you’ll always cave. Clearly you were the bully in school and not the kid getting bullied or you’d understand this.
I think bump fire stocks are done regardless of what the NRA does, and trying to defend them is not only a losing effort, but will waste political capital. The NRA wants to keep the high ground. Better for them to give up on bump-fires now and make it look like their idea. It will make it easier to argue against overreaching later.
Please provide your example about when caving in assisted individuals in preventing over-reach in the future. That just does not sound like a great idea, sounds like something a coward would say. Why don’t we just volunteer for the gas chambers, it will make it easier to sound reasonable in the future.
You make a good point Kevin, but only in theory. In practice, NRA (we) get nothing for blinking. All they have done is to energize an enemy that was dejected after a string of losses. Indeed, the anti’s were only going through the motions and were conceding defeat on this and virtually every other issue including silencers, national CCW etc.
Bad move; very bad move.
Dan, its called a tactical retreat. If you don’t do it when you’re going to lose the battle, then you lose the war.
Paul, by calling for ban on bump-stocks, we are taking the anti’s victory away from them. Its our idea, not theirs. We’ve got to take the initiative. If you just sit back and say “no,” and wait for them to act, then you are going to lose and they are going to roll right over you.
Just S a little D now and they won’t F you in the A later?
Has that ever worked?
Exactly. Bump fire stocks are going away, soon. They will be killed by the Legislature or Judicial Branch, the law changed banning them and/or sued until their grand kids will still have to pay off the suits.
Defending them will only accomplish one thing, lawyers getting richer.
I will gladly give up an “impractical” piece of plastic instead of giving up the rifle it attaches to or high cap magazines. If we get some NFA rewrite, that’s gravy.
Face the fact, Kevin– the NRA has never seen a firearm restricting legislation it did not support.
Of course they hide behind 2A rhetoric, but they’re strictly out for the money provided by supporters and ‘political clout’. Your rights so far as the Constitution is concerned aren’t even on their radar.
You are correct. The NRA has been at this for decades. The bump stock is dead and they know it. This NRA is now keeping their head while everyone around them are losing theirs and blaming it on the NRA.
This is not warfare, it is not a tactical retreat.
You STILL did not and could not provide an example of when “giving up ground” worked against the bloodthirsty politicians.
Natural rights that are expressly forbidden from government infringement in the constitution do not depend on the feelings of stupid-ass non gun people, or anyone for that matter. The NRA should be pushing for the removal of all infringements on our rights, including the restoration of machine gun ownership.
The twisted part is that you adamantly believe that purchasing a plastic springy thing is a natural right. These things have no practical purpose. I shot a friends a few years ago and it was way more difficult to control than an an m16 I’d rented. If you think fully automatic weapons shouldn’t be illegal, than go “not one inch” and fight for that, not some pathetic imitation of an automatic weapon. It’s good to see that there are some sane people left on this forum that can understand tactical retreat.
Psuedo says, “…The twisted part is that you adamantly believe that purchasing a plastic springy thing is a natural right…”
Psuedo is obviously not someone who ever buys anything not considered ‘PC’ and has no concern about others’ desires. Which, in turn, brings us to both the Fourth Amendment and our own ‘free will’, both which allow us to possess anything we want so long as possessing such does no harm to anyone, irrespective of our own self.
In short, Psuedo is a troll who thinks only he is worthy of owning whatever he wants.
Pseudo,
“The twisted part is that you adamantly believe that purchasing a plastic springy thing is a natural right.”
No, the twisted part is that YOU adamantly believe government has any legitimate authority to declare whether or not a “plastic springy thing” is illegal to possess. A person can use literally anything to kill someone, which means EVERYTHING can be illegal to possess if Almighty Government so declares. Stop ceding such non-existent authority to government.
So, please tell me how much you care about what other people think or feel about you. Because that’s really what it’s all about right? We have rights because other people look at you favorably? I misunderstood this whole thing all along, I thought that freedom of speech was to protect uncomfortable speech but really it’s just about making yourself look better. I thought the second amendment was to create a buffer between government tyranny and citizenry. I thought the 2nd Amendment was about making the United States of America a hard target to our enemies. Why don’t you tell us some more about what other people should think about you, we really care.
In a perfect world there would be the constitution, and a court to interpret it. in reality, we have POLITICIANS in the mix. since when is anything is done in politics that doesn’t hinge on “what do people think about me”. some people on here need to get with reality. being RIGHT doesn’t mean you win. if you don’t want to play the game the way it’s played, then you’re committed to a losing strategy in the long run.
What should have happened a few years ago, is the POTG should have looked at bump fire and said “how can this screw us in the future?” But nooo, people had to push for it to be approved by ATF, and others sat by with reservations and said nothing because you don’t want to get accused of not being on the team. Well, you got your nibble at wannabe full auto, instead of pushing for changes to machine gun status. Now you will probably lose both.
i wouldn’t be surprised to see anything that was grudgingly approved by ATF in recent years end up on the hit list. Arm braces anyone? People are fighting over approval of crumbs and accessories, instead of the important things. All the momentum we had going into this year is gone because of one dumb ass with a niche gadget.
Trump and congress aren’t going to touch anything pro-gun with a 10 foot pole for the next couple of years. Then we’ll be in the middle of election cycle. You better hope Trump turns it around or he’s going to be a one term president and then we really will be screwed.
Larryx2. I have found some errors in your statement and have taken the liberty of fixing them for you.
“What should have happened a few years ago, is the POTG should have looked at *pistols* and said “how can this screw us in the future?” But nooo, people had to push for it to be approved by *a unconstitutional government authority that regulates by edict*, and others sat by with reservations and said *yay! Remember that time you supported the crackdown on bump fire stocks Larry? You’re our inspiration!*
There larrydoppelganger, fixed it for you.
My wife and I had a conversation about this right after the event. It’s a simple logical matter. There was a terrible attack that makes me feel sick to my stomach involving bump-fire stock equipped rifles. We as people look for things to control, so since those stocks seem like they have no real utility and were used in a terrible attack it is only common sense (TM) to ban bump-fire stocks to decrease the effectiveness of future attacks. Will banning bump-fire stocks end attacks or make them any less deadly? No, so the next time this happens, and there will always be a next time, we roll down to the next item on the list to ban in an attempt to feel like we have some kind of control. After the accessories are all banned it’s down to the guns.
Beyond that, bump-fire stocks are easily manufactured, impossible to trace, and have no enforcement beyond potentially no longer being officially produced and sold.
Do I care about bump-fire stocks? No, I have never used one, seen one, or ever had any motivation to buy one, but it’s the principle and logical progression that has me worried. Legislation never can and never will solve the problem of evil in humanity. I know that’s an easy concept, but as people we keep looking for ways to legislate away evil.
Here’s the thing: this is the first time where you could make a good argument that the shooter’s damage could reasonably have been less severe without access to bump-fire stocks. Previously, people have called for “common sense” measures that wouldn’t have done anything to restrict the most recent killer’s impact, but this time it’s actually different. This guy did everything legally. Could he have acquired illegal weapons/bumpfire stocks if they were illegal? Potentially, sure, but that would have given law enforcement a small but nonzero chance of preempting it.
I see our Pseudo troll is still at it.
“…Could he have acquired illegal weapons/bumpfire stocks if they were illegal? Potentially, sure, but that would have given law enforcement a small but nonzero chance of preempting it….”
To answer your question: Yes, he could have. He could even have got full-auto machine guns had he so desired. The same way anyone in Chicago gets a firearm. Oh, you haven’t heard how strict Chicago is on firearms?
Pseudo’s argument is as watertight as a sieve.
Pseudo,
“… you could make a good argument that the shooter’s damage could reasonably have been less severe without access to bump-fire stocks.”
No, not really. The attacker could have easily acquired full automatic rifles if he was willing to wait 9 months for the ATF to send him a tax stamp. Of course the attacker could also have easily acquired a full-auto sear and compatible bolt carrier group from multiple sources and converted a semi-auto AR-15. Finally, the attacker could have easily mounted two semi-auto AR-15s side-by-side (both pointed at the same approximate spot) and fired two handed doubling the nominal 4 rounds per second rate of semi-auto to 8 rounds per second. Bonus: with 60 round magazines the attacker could have launched 120 bullets without having to reload in this side-by-side configuration.
Oh, and how about methods that have nothing to do with firearms? He could have landed a single-engine Cessna into the crowd and killed way more people.
Your suggested line of “reasoning” is demonstrably false.
Well regulated.
Many words in the 2nd Amendment.
The phrase “well-regulated”, in common use in 1789, referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people’s arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.
But in regards to a militia(an armed force of VOLUNTEER CITIZENS, as opposed a “standing military”, of paid employees.), the words “well regulated” mean with a leader and some type of responsible command structure, in order to separate an armed militia from a lynch mob. Pretty intelligent, those founding father that the left shits all over these days.
A well regulated militia (as in functional) is impossible if the people aren’t armed with weapons appropriate for military conflict..
Have a great day!
Your “Well regulated” and a “Shall not be infringed” referring to the same thing. Yeah, right.
Nice try. You fail.
Is that a knife I feel in my back?
Et tu, brute?
The NRA convention will be hilarious next year if this thing passes. I’ll bring tomatoes to throw at Wayne LaPierre.
As things stand nothing has to “PASS” They suggested the jackbooted at ATF review previous dictates (as by a dictator).
ATF is STILL the same bunch of thugs that ran the joint for Obumer. They can reconfirm their previous determination (the Obama ruling). OR they could do a 180.
Well, they wouldn’t want any of their buddies in Congress to have to vote on it undermining their A+ rating and face the wrath of the voters at the ballot box. It’s much better to let a bunch of faceless & unaccountable bureaucrats do it.
Been thinking this over and after reading the news story on Fox, I’m starting to see the method behind the NRA’s seeming madness:
If the ATF rules that the bump stock is illegal (after Obama’s toadies said it was OK, and don’t let any lib forget that) they will do so using existing law only… no new laws need to be written and fought over in Congress.
As we all know, a rule can be easily and quickly redefined but a LAW is much harder to repeal… and by throwing this one bone to the libs we instantly take away their main argument of day.
Will it shut them up? Of course not, but it will make taking their inevitable further restrictive ideas that much harder for the average American to take seriously; “What are y’all still whining about? They pulled those gizmos off the market, what’s the problem now?”
As I said, they won’t stop… but it might take away their political capital and that’s no small thing.
I will go just to boo the leadership. I let my membership expire when they signed off on the Clinton AWB, at this point, it seems I will be doing that again. Looks like that check I was about to write to NRA-ILA will go to GOA instead.
Same here!
Not cool… so what if it’s a niche product?
So are sports cars but we don’t ban them when someone races on the hwy and wrecks the car killing a family in the minivan.
So my binary trigger is next on the hit list?
We have to stick together or else they will divide and conquer our rights.
Translation: adding a single feature to a rifle (bayonet lug, pistol grip, detachable magazine, flash suppressor, etc ) can instantly transform a regular legal rifle into an illegal one.
NRA, you’ve lost your f’ing minds…
If you have an AK, a pair of scissors, and wear shoes with laces, you potentially have an illegal post-86 machine gun by virtue of constructive possession.
That being the case, can you really get that worked up about them regulating away a $2.00/second shoulder massager?
Cutting something off a perfectly good rifle already makes it illegal. It’s not that logically complicated.
“…NRA, you’ve lost your f’ing minds…”
But, just like that Megan Kelly woman who’s really messed with NBC, the NRA is laughing all the way to the bank as it counts out the cash suckered from its membership.
It is far from just bump fire stocks people, READ THE DAMN BILL! If you agree to this, you are a fool. It will and can make ANYTHING increasing the fire for a semi-auto…. this is a very poorly written bill and will open all kinds of further infringements on firearm enthusiasts! Wake-up people! Kiss Echo triggers away and much more…. SEE YOU LATER NRA, I watched you sell us out during the AWB and now you are at it again. The NEW NRA president has no balls and is willing to appease dems and liberals to look good! Where the hell is Wayne LaPierre, we need the same hard ball stance like after Sandy Hook or BOYCOTT the NRA! I was so proud of Wayne LaPierre after he stood his ground and did his job protecting our rights…. this new NRA president folds the very first time! Ball-less SOB!
Quite possibly.
I’m pretty sure binary triggers are included in the senators bill.
Make sure you call the NRA and tell them what you think. I will as soon as I’m able to.
-bob
When they came for the slide fire stocks I said nothing.
When they came for the upgraded triggers I said nothing
When they came for my rifles I said nothing
When they came for my pistols I said nothing
When they came for my revolver I could say nothing because there was nothing else to take
There’s a difference between not fighting this battle and not fighting any battles. If you say nothing when they come for rifles, you’re a moron. Melodramatic garbage rhetoric is melodramatic.
Traitors. Remember this day. It will be the start of the eventual death of the 2A. Next will be semi auto rifles, then handguns, then bolt actions, then shotguns, until nothing is left. This will be the story you tell your grandkids. You can tell them you were there when the fall of the 2A started.
Not exactly.
I normally agree with you, but that is not a very reasoned argument you have just presented. Can you not feel the ground slipping away? Do you not think there is such a thing as a slippery slope? Whether you do or not, you criticize individuals that do. When those on our side turn from us and stab us in the back like certain organizations in Illinois, is our response to join them like lemmings? Maybe they can have just one thing from us like we have given up before. Maybe that will finally be what appeases the violent left. Then again, that would be the naive answer.
I just can’t keep up the perpetual outrage. Liberals live this way. I don’t. I just can’t get outraged over a product such as the bump-fire stock. My battles are chosen, not continually waged.
NFA 1934
GCA 1968
Amendment to GCA 1986
I think there was something in 1935 as well but I can’t look it up right now. The point is we are already well done that slope. I would estimate that 90% of what the federal government does is unconstitutional.
I don’t expect to survive the death of the Constitution. I won’t turn in a single shiny round or my least effective firearm. Shall not be infringed. Screw the NRA and they will regret the day they screwed us over. I won’t forget it and they won’t get another penny from me.
This is exactly why I stopped donating to the NRA several years ago. Every NRA member has now financed gun control.
If they can help squeeze something positive — like the SHARE act or national reciprocity — out of what would otherwise have been a crap sandwich, then they’ve earned the dues I’ve sent them.
Big if
Oh you sweet innocent flower.
You never know, they might. Not likely, I know, but let’s wait and see how this shakes out.
If they’ve screwed the pooch, then I don’t renew. In the meantime, me and you jumping up and down and screaming and getting all heartburny doesn’t change anything except our own stress levels.
Sadly things are turning the other way now. The NRA and Republicans just showed they are willing to cave. You really think Paul Ryan is a 2A supporter?
If the next mass shooter uses an AR Pistol with a Brace, and the whole SBR vs Brace debate goes public, say goodbye to the braces.
We won’t be getting anything in exchange and they’ll ban far more than just bump fire stocks.
The left is being pretty open with their intentions now all over the media and internet. “Ban bump fire! Limit how many guns you can buy! How much ammo you have! Gun registry! Ban High capacity mags! Ban Semi auto rifles! Block HPA! It would have been worse with a silencer! Ban all guns! Overturn the second amendment!” Tossing them a bump fire ban isn’t going to do anything other than further restrict us. “Use limited bump fire ban to isolate second amendment absolutists like crazy NRA and GOA people” said the article I just read. We seem to be playing into their hands, letting the feelz and sight of blood scare us into giving up our rights. I guess henceforth every time a shooting happens we will just give in, so we don’t seem mean.
When the NRA signaled weakness on this they cut the legs out from under all of the half hearted 2nd Amendment supporters in the Senate. We will now get nothing for being forced to give up bump stocks and they will likely go for your after market triggers as well. Can you beat the after market trigger limitations in court? I think so, but at a huge cost in legal fees and time wasted.
I think the last sentence, rather I hope the last sentence, is at least an attempt/signal to say if you want to regulate bump fire stocks, you have to give us national reciprocity….
That should grease the skids real good.
Not one more inch.
I thought all the Fudds had died off. Way to cuck NRA. Way to cuck.
And just like that…. the NRA loses another member.
Excuse me while I go research the other organizations to see if they still support a Citizen’s Right to keep and bear arms.
I’d go with GOA. The Second Amendment Foundation is run by the traitor Alan Gottlieb who has twice supported a ban on private sales of firearms.
The NRA just acquiesced to the rhetoric that those people are dead not because of the killer, it’s the weapon that did the killing. May as well just scratch out the second amendment, they just killed it. October 5, 2017, the day the country died.
When these tragedies happen in other countries like France, the NRA says “not one more inch.” But, when it happens in the US, they fold.
Speaking about folding, the House, Senate and White House still have Republican majorities. Pass the damn HPA,, SHARE, whatever act. Quit doing what you have accused the liberals of doing. Kicking the can down the road. We have the votes now. Put it out there and place a spotlight on the Repubs that vote against the SHARE act.
Personally. I think it’s small patatoes. I don’t mind loosing bump fire stocks. But i don’t think it’ll stop something like this from happening again. What if this guy had did like the terrorists in Nice, and just stole a large truck and plowed it into that concert. He could have done that. It would have been easier. And cheaper. And could have been just as effective at killing dozens and wounding hundreds.
But it’s a small victory for the gun control crowd, and I don’t think it’ll amount to a whole lot in the scheme of things.
Honestly, it’s really not about preventing this from happening again. We all know that. Killers will kill if they are determined. What this is really about is winning back some favorable opinion from the public. The media does a great job of making us part of the problem. We could burst that bubble with practically nothing lost. Bumpfire stocks are not something I will miss. The second it goes beyond that, I will strike down upon them with great vengeance and furious anger.
I don’t believe you. Because it becomes very easy to surrender when you give up that first time.
“Everyone fights, nobody quits”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BmaPmo-EM8
So use some legislative judo to get what we want as well. See my idea below.
“So use some legislative judo to get what we want as well.”
THIS.
Dangle the bait as a bargaining chip…
I’m sorry Spencer, I thought we had discussed truck control. Oh wait, we have not. We’ve gotten past the point where we think inanimate objects all of the reason for this killing. Read some history, what have we given up so far? Has it made any difference? Why is the Second Amendment there to begin with?
Hey, maybe the Democrats will shut the fuck up about gun control now!
hahaha
Not smart. Let Finstein combine her narrowly worded bumpstock ban with the SHARE act and bass them as one Bill. Hack, tack on National Reciprocity for CCL while you’re at it. This statement puts the NRA in a bad position to do that.
Why the hell would we want the Feinstein bill? It will outlaw numerous aftermarket triggers. That is not the goal here and we should not budge on it.
ALL they get is drop-in bumpfire stocks. That is IT.
Sure, I am all for tying this into SHARE Act somehow… but Feinsteins bill in it’s current form royally sucks.
Or better yet, define bump fire stocks as Title II machine guns and repeal Hughes to allow people to register them. Then add a provision to preempt state regulation of Title II items.
That would have been optimal.
No less than the FULL repeal of the entire NFA would be worth accepting any ban.
Baby steps, baby steps. Quite frankly, if we get to the point where only machine guns and actual artillery are on the NFA with federal preemption of additional state regulations, I’d consider it a reasonable restriction.
1. Add bump fire stock to the Machine gun registry.
2. Entire AR15 is now a machine gun.
3. Ditch stock and drill our auto sear pin, add trigger group
4. Profit
I like your way of thinking.
how would you then make it in to a MG without spending mucho $$$$$$$$$?
how much do the full auto trigger groups go for?
The Geissele is about $300.00, 3 position selector, about $25.00, auto sear, I’ve seen as low as $11.99. I don’t know if anyone makes a drop-in for AR patterns, but if the registry was re-opened, almost all of them would start making them.
Because the NRA is a political organization which understands how the game is played in the court of public opinion. We had momentum in the gun debate and we must regain it by showing what the public considers to be reasonable behavior.
If all that is lost in the process is flimsy overprice plastic stocks to add in bump fire, I am fine with that. As long as we can still use our hands, belt loop, wood, or whatever else we want to play with on our own. The ban should simply be on commercially available pre-fab drop-in stock/grip assemblies.
If we go anywhere even close to the direction of the current Feinstein bill THAT would have to be stopped. This needs to be very specifically and explicit in what it targets and does not. Banning triggers is not going to fly. Restricting how I use my belt loop obviously won’t either.
I totally agree this is silliness. It’s pandering to emotional fools that don’t understand firearms. But you have to admit if we are going to give on ONE SINGLE THING – this is probably the single best to cave on!
I know you not 1 inchers will attack, but I am being pragmatic and realistic here. We will need to dig our heels in and fight for every inch on OTHER fights. It wouldn’t be totally unwise to give an inch here.
The fact this very site has debated the legality of these stocks before should tell you they really probably never should have come to market in the first place.
But go ahead. Call me a pussy and idiot and whatever else. I couldn’t give less shits. I am simply trying to make yall think things through. Right now, you are being short sighted.
I think you are correct. I understand their reasoning.
Unlike the NRA, I don’t make decisions based on effect it has long term win loose chances, I make them only on the ethicacy (maybe I made up that word) of individual issue alone. I loose in long run more often than those, like the NRA that play the political game. I am okay with the results of my method, I live with a clear conscience. People who play the political game may have a clear conscience too but the risks of trying to do aggregate good by engaging in some wrong when tactics require is a dangerous game.
The problem with giving them this is, where do you stop? Do you ban triggers that make it easier to fire faster too? What are those? Sure, the Franklin Armory & Tac-Con, but any lightened pull trigger such as Hyperfire, Timney, CMC, Rise, etc allow you to show faster by reducing the pull and the reset. You can illegally modify the disconnecter and/or hammer on ARs, so would you go after all ARs? It is a slippery slope.
Simple, don’t “give” them anything. Just trade regulating bump fire stocks as machine guns for a repeal of the Hughes amendment and federal preemption of Title II item regulation. Simple.
You’re clearly delusional if you think we’ll ever get anything in exchange for giving up more of our rights. I hope the traitorous NRA goes bankrupt after every member demands a full refund.
That’s the beauty, we’re “giving up” something silly for getting the reason said silly thing even exists. Why would you pay $200 for a slidefire stock when you can pay a $200 tax stamp and drop in an auto-sear?
“Give them nothing. Take from them everything!” – King Leonidas of Sparta, from the film 300
I read somewhere that not only did he use the murderous bump fire, but also a “hellfire” trigger. I don’t know what a hellfire trigger is, possibly involves a missile pod, but we must ban that too. Why does anyone need a hellfire trigger? What practical purpose is a hellfire trigger? Do deers need to be hunted with a hell fire? Maybe ban all triggers, just in case they might have some hellfire in them somewhere. For the children.
Remember, it is their goal to ban semi-automatics. That is why we are the “1 inchers”. They will try to “go California” with magazine restrictions, “bullet buttons”, maybe cycle restrictions on triggers. Finally – who needs a Killing machine? DO.NOT.GIVE.AN.INCH
Better yet would be legislative judo. They’ve been pulling it for decades, it’s our turn. Let’s regulate bump fire stocks as machine guns… Oh wait… It’s illegal to register a new machine gun, so we would have to change that… after all, we can’t just confiscate things, 5th amendment and all that… Oh, some states ban the possession of Title II items oh dear, looks like we’ll have to add a preemption clause to prevent states from prosecuting people for obeying this federal laws that you want passed. After all, we wouldn’t want the courts to strike down this law? Right?
I’ll give you a vote of support. This is a losing battle and the NRA wants to avoid an outright defeat. For you not give an inch guys, announce the time and place for the revolution to prevent the banning of slidefire stocks and you will have 3 guys join you for a battle to the death.
There is no good explanation for why these need to stay legal. Yeah its a fun dumb range toy, but 58 people are dead. You can’t make any self defense or militia argument for them. I know and you know it doesn’t make a difference, but that same logic can be used to say ban them, what does it matter.
ATF Regulation vs. Congress passing a law.
Pondering.
That’s it exactly. If the ATF reclassifies bump stocks to make them illegal, then no Republican in Congress actually has to vote in favor gun control legislation.
Find your congressman and send them this text.
Representative [Name],
Given the current furor on the topic of bump fire stocks, I thought it useful, as one of your constituents, to contact you with an idea for a practical solution to the issue that you might offer as a thoughtful compromise to all parties involved.
The existence of the bump fire stock is a direct result of ridiculously inconsistent federal and state regulations of firearms and banning them outright will serve little purpose other than to cause the gun community to disavow their support for you and invent new methods to achieve the same goal.
Instead, it would be far more reasonable to revise existing firearms laws to better fit the intent of the 2nd amendment and ease the regulatory burden on law abiding gun owners. The core of this idea stems from the existence of the National Firearms Act and the registration of existing machine guns under the provisions of that act.
I would recommend you propose the following compromise.
1. Any fire rate acceleration device is regulated as a Title II firearm under the national firearms act equivalent to a machine gun. The definition of a machine gun under Title II would need to be refined as to include such devices, but specifically exclude trigger modifications to avoid confusion.
2. Any existing owners of such devices will be required to register their device with the BATFE NFA branch using an NFA Form 1 with the requisite excise tax waved as no transfer of ownership is actually occurring.
3. Given that it is currently illegal to register a new machine gun under the provision of the 1986 Hughes amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act, this amendment would need to be repealed in its entirety.
4. To prevent states from prosecuting law abiding gun owners for abiding by this new federal law (and preventing challenges to the law based on entrapment grounds), any bill would need to preempt state level regulation of any item regulated under Title II of the National Firearms Act.
I think that such a bill could be proposed as an alternative to an ineffective and draconian ban being pushed by opponents of the 2nd amendment across the isle. It would discourage the development of new workarounds to the National Firearms Act by allowing law abiding gun owners to own actual Title II items under strict regulation, but without the fear of state level persecution for their exercise of their 2nd amendment rights. Such a bill could be touted as a victory from both sides of the isle and would show the willingness of gun owners to consider public safety concerns.
More importantly, such a bill would not likely face legal challenge due to meeting strict scrutiny standards applied by the courts. The interests of the government, while present, would be applied in the least intrusive method of meeting said interests. Moreover, the argument that repealing the Hughes amendment is unwise can be countered with the simple demonstration that between 1934 and 1986 exactly two homicides were committed with a registered Title II machine gun. (According to BATFE testimony to congress regarding the FOPA in 1986.) As such, clearly the regulation applied under Title II of the National Firearms Act are largely sufficient to meet the government’s public safety interests without the need for a blanket ban. (A ban that could be challenged under both D.C. v Heller and U.S. v Miller precedents.)
I hope that you consider this idea in how you approach the coming gun control debate and introduce a bill or amendments to an existing bill covering items 1-4 as I outlined earlier. Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions, concerns, or feedback you would like to discuss.
Respectfully,
Very nice, well presented, and a true win-win. It makes perfect sense; so it’ll be hard to sell to those on the other side who don’t seem to care about facts and logic.
We don’t need to sell it to the gun control zealots. We need to sell it to the wobbly parts of our side. We have more than enough votes in both the House and Senate to get this passed and the GOP could tout this as “doing something” about “gun violence” while staying true to their principles and being a huge win for those of use who know what we’re talking about.
A decent letter. BTW, it’s aisle, not isle.
English is not even my second language. I occasionally still have trouble with homophones.
Now serge, no need to go calling people names. :🙂
Good argument in your letter. Wish it would work but it makes too much sense for politicians. Also, not what most of both parties want in the end. I’ll send it though.
Hmmm.. The lights are blinkin’ I’m thinkin’ 🙂
I sent them off myself, and spread it around. Thank you
“Stand and fight”
(Praise the lord, and send your contribution)
Sacrifice bump stocks to more regulation, but Only if they get national reciprocity and suppressors off of the list of NFA items in return. For the record, I do have a slidefire stock that I received as a gift several years ago.
They should also add a one time NFA check, so if you’ve been approved for one NFA item, you don’t have to wait half a year or more to get approved for the next purchase. Subsequent NFA purchases should be approved as quickly as a NICS check.
Keep dreaming. Sadly the tide is turning.
What if Paddock had used an AR PISTOL WITH A BRACE and this brought to light the whole discrepancy between SBRs and Pistols; would the NRA say to ban Pistol Braces?
Sooner or later this will happen.
They will just chip away at any gains we have made. And the NRA will give them their blessing. Unreal.
What if Paddock had used an AR PISTOL WITH A BRACE
He might have managed to hit the ground?
Ok now is the time to call the NRA too and telling them you are yanking your membership unless they do an immediate about face! I would rather send my money to the 2nd Amendment Foundation. The NRA just surrendered! Traitors! https://www.saf.org/
Time to go online and order one up.
Slidefire halted orders on their website; they can’t keep up with the increased demand, but other sites still have them in stock
Quick check on gunbroker…5-6-7 hundred bucks!!!
there was one for an AK platform at the local bass pro last month on clearance for $50… should have picked it up
“Quick check on gunbroker…5-6-7 hundred bucks!!!”
How about modifying a standard collapsible stock for the same effect?
Geoff PR,
I think modifying a collapsible stock to make your own slide-fire stock would be fairly easy.
Wish I had a dozen on hand, to sell.
WTF with the comments. my comment above shows me as “undefined”. Anyway, why make a bump fire stock? I am not a bump fire fan but do know that it can be done, even from the shoulder, without a special stock. If bump fire stocks are someone’s thing, have at it. For me, no insult intended, they are to bump firing as shoes with Velcro straps are to shoes with laces.
At some point I would love to hear what the NRA’s leadership thinks is guaranteed under the second amendment. Where is the line you do not cross? Every time I turn around I see the NRA giving away one small thing after another
Misleading headline. They’re clearly saying let the ATF review them INSTEAD of new laws. They know damn well if an Obama admin ATF didn’t ban them, a Trump admin ATF won’t. And if by some miracle they did, it would take about 10 minutes for a court to determine a bump stock does not allow more than one round fired per trigger pull as the law states.
They’re trying to head off and dismiss new legislation, not advocate for it.
Not a misleading headline. They are implicitly supporting reclassification (read: Ban) on bumpfire stocks. They only reason spineless Republicans would not support legislation is fear of backlash by the NRA in pro-gun districts. With the NRA on board with reclassifying them, it gives Congress free reign to go after them and retain an A+ NRA rating.
Okay, tomorrow the NRA should propose that a bill be passed that deregulates suppressors, SBR’s, and SBS in exchange for bumpfire stocks.
Seriously, why the F*** can’t any high profile, pro gun person with strings he can pull suggesting this. Instead, it seems every spineless, coward of a Republican won’t dare pull victory from the jaws of defeat and the NRA is now following the BROKEN Republicans in surrender and submission.
Cancel your lifetime NRA membership, don’t pay the next payment, and tell Little Wayne LaPierre “Suppressors for Bumpfire stocks.”
SUPPERESSORS FOR BUMPFIRE STOCKS! MAKE IT A HASHTAG! MAKE IT A BUMPER STICKER! HAVE EVERY LGS YOU KNOW PUT A SIGN IN THEIR WINDOW TO SUPPORT A BILL ALONG THESE LINES!
We’re going to get suppressors one way or the other. What I want is the Hughes amendment if we’re going to give up regulation free rapid fire.
Contact the NRA immediately. Phone and email. Tell them that you won’t give them one more cent until they retract this position. They are supporting the reclassification of a legally owned item to something that would be completely illegal (since you cannot register a new MG post-86). Effectively, reclassification would make a legally owned item illegal and FORCE GUN OWNERS TO CHOOSE BETWEEN BEING A CRIMINAL AND DESTROYING LEGALLY POSSESSED PROPERTY. This is the SAME ARGUMENT the NRA uses against stupid gun laws, like mag capacity limits in CA. I can’t believe they would release this statement.
Well, any hope of non NFA suppressors is now dead. Any hope of lifting import bans and getting rid of 922r is gone. Look to the NRA to cave on .50 cals and Shockwave type “firearms” next.
Don’t give me your trade off spiel.
This is a total capitulation. They aren’t going to get ANYTHING in return.
There is a whole laundry list of things they will cave on as they walk backwards, feeding the wolves as they go.
Best of luck to all of you who think your stuff is safe. I’d be buying stock in larger diameter PVC tube manufacturers if i were you.
Also, join Gun Owners of America NOW. I did that immediately after I got the Fox News alert. They are the only NO COMPROMISE Gun Lobby. I did the $50 down payment/$50 quarterly option on a life membership. There are many other options. Join. Donate. Fight this. Not one more inch!
OK, if Paddock was a Democrat, can we ban those to? For the children?
The common denominator in virtually all spree killings (and a majority of other homicides as well) is left-wing politics. Speaking purely rationally, it would make sense for voting for leftists to be a step in making an individual a prohibited person.
What the “not one inch”ers are missing is that this is a golden opportunity to use some legislative judo of our own. They want to treat bump fire stocks like machine guns? Sure! Let’s do that!
Oh, dear… We can’t unless we repeal the Hughes amendment and let people register them.
Oh, dear… Looks like we’ll have to preempt states from regulating Title II items so that people won’t challenge the law on entrapment grounds.
Well, let’s do this. You want to make people safer? Right? Heck, now you got your background checks for owning these things. After all, background checks for Title II items are clearly effective given that they are rarely, if ever, used in crimes, right?
F$&K THE NRA, they have betrayed us all. Call, write, email your representatives because the slippery slope is caving beneath us.
The NRA should have or just stay out off.it all until we’re asked for our opinion. Everyone knows that where this bump stock was going.
Face it I’m a shooter and trainer and when we were walking out talking about this we all knew it would be dead when crongress got ahold to it. They just passed it on undser Obamma in 1910. We’ll since the law enforcement had to stand up to them this is really bad. We can do without it as it’s a toy anyway.
Ah, but if we give something up, we should get something as well. I think a Hughes amendment repeal is appropriate.
The problem is if these get banned, guess what happens in the next mass shooting? The left will say “hey, we banned something last time. Let’s ban something else this time too.” It will never end.
Golly gosh gee I just received more NRA junkmail today. Expensive accident insurance…which I used to SELL. I’m thinking the NRA should try a mite harder(as well as republitard traitors). If we survived 20 little kids being murdered I would think having all congressional/senate/SCOTUS and the President would give them some BALLS…
The NRA board of directors can be contacted via http://www.theguncollective.com/nra. You have use your NRA membership number to submit a message.
This is the message I left: “I write to express my great displeasure with the NRA. The NRA recently released the following: ‘The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.’ This is the reason that I never give any money to the NRA. To often has the NRA caved in the face of tragedy to the knee jerk reaction of politicians to be seen as “doing something.” The NRA must establish a track record of never conceding to the gun control lobby if it wants people like me to donate one cent. I don’t even select the NRA as the recipient of donations on AmazonSmile.
The only compromise I know of in regards to federal gun control was the FOPA, which basically means that I will never own a machine gun, but can travel through states that I have no intention of ever traveling through. And if I do travel through a state such as New York, my rights will be violated anyway, and I will have no remedy. We should only compromise if we get a net win. Every piece of federal legislation on guns that has passed was either a defeat or a minor victory that could have been had in courts.
This hold the line strategy is doomed to failure and cannot be our position.”
What I think people are missing here is that the bump-fire stock maker submitted their product to the ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch, who then reviewed it:
https://www.slidefire.com/downloads/BATFE.pdf
The ATF can rescind that letter of finding at any time they choose. Just as they classified StreetSweeper shotguns to be destructive devices, the ATF can make a technical finding and push the device into NFA status. That can happen in a short amount of time without legislation, and there’s little that can be done to change what the ATF does in that process.
I recommend people write businesses the donate to the NRA and ask them to cease donations, at least temporarily, in wake of this betrayal. Most companies get very little feedback that doesn’t fall into order problems or (in the case of this kind of company) calling them evil merchants of death, and it only takes a few to really get corporate to want to get away from something as fast as they can. Consumers targeting advertisements on the network over their “bring back bullying” antics crippled Gawker (before Hulk Hogan piledrove it into bankruptcy). “Operation Powder Alarm” if you will.
Feinstein doesn’t want any device to increase the firing rate of the gun. OK, put Jerry Miculek on the clock, and we’ll cap it there. Generally, the max firing rate of the gun is determined in full fun mode, so technically nothing on the market increases the rate of fire.
Goodbye NRA
I think a HPA addendum to a bump fire stock ban would be the perfect poison pill.
Classic progress bill-mongering.
Title it “Bump Fire Stock Ban”, then toss in de-NFAization of SBR and suppressors. When the Dems don’t vote for it, they can be pilloried in public — “My opponent made us less safe by NOT voting for the Bump Fire Stock Ban”
No it wouldn’t. The NRA has shown they support the NFA like the fudds they are. Such a move would only further solidify the illegal ban on full autos.
I like that! SBR’s for sure, and throw in the suppressors, can’t say silencers otherwise they will be on to us. Still jacked up what the NRA did, only takes on fucktard psycho to fuck it up for the good guys. They are already selling them dumbass bumpfiee stocks for 900$ on GunBroker, binary trigger already doubled as well and are all out of stock.Hate it when Asshole’s do that just to make A profit. They make them unattainable for years.
What is the NRA’s stance on Gatling Triggers? I hope they don’t get caught up in this ban also.
Although I see no need for a bump fire, I prefer precise well aimed fire. Banning them or anything really only keeps it out of the hands of law abiding citizens. In a day you could easily make your own working home made bump fire with just a few basic legal items. I have seen videos of a working design, using the following easily obtained items.
a Magpul MOE grip
M4 Buttstock
Metal rod
9 Screws
12 washers
One piece of 8×10 sheet metal
Tools needed
Dremil
Drill
Screwdriver
You can also just use your belt loop or a lanyard.
+ This.
You can do it real easy off of a three-point sling. Kinda easy off of a two-point.
If you have a standard AR with a removable trigger guard, you can do it with a bungee single-point sling in 3 seconds. Or just pull a loop through the guard and bring your thumb up through the loop (don’t get the sling behind the trigger). Regular slings can do this too, just not as smooth.
Trade bump stocks for suppressors, knowing that triggers such as the fostech echo, and franklin armory binary triggers now make these bumpfire stocks obsolete. They are far easier to control, and the early versions of the franklin armory trigger could actually go faster than the gun could run. Simply make sure that the bill ONLY bans stocks and not triggers.
Unfortunately, all Republicans know how to do is surrender.
“Trade bump stocks for suppressors” F THAT
Trade nothing, if they have something to offer we can beat it out of them later.
THEY DON’T HAVE ANYTHING TO TRADE
THAT ISN’T ALREADY YOURS.
I wish we had Republicans who were like you, but I am a realist, and we don’t.
We can either make a deal with bump stocks, which aren’t even firearms, and thus aren’t
protected under the 2A, or we can kiss suppressors and binary triggers goodbye, probably forever.
Well, I knew it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. If banning bumpfire stocks is all that happens, consider yourselves fortunate.
I’m sure more laws can make us all safer! 🙄
Here is a little snippet from Policeone.com
https://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/articles/428168006-4-things-to-know-about-a-bump-stock/
“Since a bump stock really isn’t anything more than an instrument that enhances something that a rifle can do naturally, legislation and enforcement isn’t practical. In fact, states like California and New York have ironically improved bump-firing capabilities by enacting more gun restricting laws. That is, the outlawing of pistol grip and thumbhole stocks has caused manufacturers to design gripless stocks that are easier to bump fire.”
I don’t get it and I don’t like this at all. For eight years we took it on the chin while Obama did his best to erode our rights and we were able to hold our ground. Now the first mass murder under Trump, and the first use of these “bump stocks” in a crime and even the NRA is folding. It will not stop here, the liberals will smell blood in the water and they will push and push until they get what they want, and it seems we are giving up. there are too many people saying “we should be able to own bump stocks” where they should be defending their right to own whatever the hell they want. this is not a good sign, the gun community is already getting complacent thinking Trump will have their back just because he isn’t Obama. so in one week we have lost the HPA and by the looks of the comments we are okay with losing “bump fire stocks”. we are going backwards and I am not happy about this at all…
What is the chance they pass a clean bill without attaching a hundred other things to it?
And it begins!
J U D A S _ G O A T
If they don’t cave on bump-fire accessories, then they can never ask you for another 40 years worth of donations to try to get them back.
NRA’s “we need to make sure we have a seat at the negotiating table” and “we need to continue to have the conversation” sh_t can all go to hell.
and I’ll help them pack.
I’ve been on the fence for a while for an NRA membership. I’ve had a number of opportunities to go all-in on a lifetime membership and the financial means to do so. Now I’m thinking, NOPE.
The left sees any control as a stepping-stone to greater controls. Bumpfire stocks make it easier to automatic, so lets ban them. And while we’re doing that, compensators make it easier to keep them on target. And a foregrips. Sadly, I think the NRA is classifying this as a sacrificial picking and choosing of battles. No. This appeasement shit needs to stop. It’s not 2008 anymore, NRA. Get some backbone.
Even worse, this is probably the first homocide ever committed with a bumpfire stock and frankly, it wasn’t even required to do so.
F*** the NRA. There’s no way Dems are going to trade bumpstocks for national reciprocity. I’ve heard 3 news organisations including Fox refer to bumpstocks as being designed for people with disabilities. Pretty sure they are confusing pistol braces with bumpstocks, but we all remember what a fiasco the pistol brace started, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they try to throw it on the list.
Ok, has anyone heard of DigiTrigger. Pull shoot, release shoot digitally/physically. No one is talking about that but it also increases rate of fire, or an aftermarket trigger that might by trigger pull weight increase the rate of fire, so are those part of the bill or could they be interpreted to be part of the bill. And I guess you have to just put Jerry Miculek in jail because he can shoot faster than a stupid inaccurate bump stock. Next mass shooting could be with a digi-trigger and the saga continues.
Do the words “ex post facto” mean anything to the NRA? Any reclassification falls into such.
“Do the words “ex post facto” mean anything to the NRA? Any reclassification falls into such.”
I’m not so sure on that.
With the passage of the ’34 Firearm Act all existing MGs were required to be taxed and entered into the registry.
That’s where Serge’s idea is brilliant.
Zap the Hughes amendment and re-open the MG registry…
*snicker*
Ex post facto is making something illegal and then prosecuting someone for what they did before the law was passed. The proposal doesn’t violate ex post facto. It could be a confiscation.
LaPierre is on Hannity tonight. Should be interesting…
I think the NRA is asking for new regulations, not a ban.
How about we swap bump fire stocks for suppressors in the NFA?
There is a real chance that a GOP senator could attach national reciprocity or silencers to the bump stock ban bill. Wouldn’t that be a hoot? Dems would vote against it and nothing would happen. But Dems would retain their fundraising issue.
Boy am I glad I didn’t purchase that NRA Life memership yesterday!! I was ready to sign up to pay for the fight to protect our rights, but now apparently they don’t need my money because they aren’t fighting….
Ok… Wanna do SOMETHING. Here’s a good one: start putting serial numbers on bump stocks, trigger cranks, and binary triggers. Now anybody buying these will fill out for a standard NICS check. Would it have prevented a**hole from getting them? No. Would it have stopped him? No. Then again before he opened fire there is no gun law nor ban that would have stopped him from firing into that crowd with a gun. When the f*ck are yall gonna pull your heads from your as*es and realize that LAWS DO NOT PREVENT CRIME!!!! LAWS STATE WHAT ACTIONS ARE ILLEGAL AND HOW ILLEGAL (MISDEMEANOR OR FELONY) THOSE ACTIONS ARE!!!
this is going to cost the NRA big.
Even though I am opposed to it, I thought this was a smart move. The NRA can say we are for the regulating this product so let’s get it done. There is more republicans than dems right now so they can send it through without loading it down with anything extra. If the dems don’t like because it doesn’t do enough then they would have to kill it and it would be at their feet, publicly. When the next shooting happens and the dems demand more the Nra will do what they do best and convince people that the dems won’t stop till all the guns are gone and that puts gun people at the polls. Which secures Supreme Court justices. I will take 20-30 years of a Scalia sitting in Ginsberg chair any day over a bumpfire.
I totally agree with “shall not be infringed.” Problem is, we live in a political environment and we have to work about system to protect our rights now and in the long term. The NRA asking for ATF to review regulations helps to cut the legs out from under Feinstein and any of the rest to want to attack this legislatively. Give them a bill in Congress and they will attach triggers, mag capacities, anything else they can think of.
An ATF review of a regulation as suggested by the NRA will help to take the wind out of the sails of any further congressional intervention. Sure, they will have their press conferences, wave the bloody shirt, but public opinion and public focus will soon shift away from this issue, without risking any further legislative involvement.
Meanwhile, we get another supreme court justice in place, we continue quietly to pad the different levels of the federal judiciary, and really stack the deck in our favor for the long range goal of full restoration of our firearms rights. But first we have to head off any opportunity for them to capitalize on this small window of opportunity to ram really odious legislation through Congress
This NRA member supports the NRA announcement. Yes it would be nice if they would do some deal making and that may well be going on behind the scenes.
Let’s not risk loosing everything over some silly toy whose specific purpose is to bypass laws regulating access to full auto firearms.
I’m coming to conclude that many in the gun community are our own worst enemies. Please stop being some damn selfish over a range toy with no real practical use for self-defense value, competition shooting, or hunting. Learn to pick your battles better a hell of a lot better.
The 2nd Amendment is not without some restrictions. Heck even Justice Scalia said as much.
+1
Pick your battles to win the war. If you desire 2A purism then join the GOA. If you want a more reasoned approach join the NRA.
Would love to see the existing NRA membership polled on this topic and the results posted publicly. Suspect many of the big mouths would quickly find out the bulk of the membership has little if any concern with what the NRA just did.
Here’s the bottom line:
The ATF can regulate bump-fire stocks to be NFA devices – with the statute law they have now. Heck, the ATF can regulate large bore (> 0.500) rifles as “destructive devices” with the statute law they have now. I know gunsmiths who have made larger bore (> 0.500″) rifles for clients (eg, like an 8 bore or a 4 bore rifle) who have written in to the ATF to get their exception letter from NFA classification.
The ATF can do the classification right now. If the ATF does that, then the odds of keeping the issue out of Congress are much better. The NRA has probably put their finger into the wind in Congress, realized the depths of stupidity and ignorance therein, and they’re making a calculated decision to use the regulatory route to make it appear that DC is “doing something” so that the Congress isn’t given a gun control bill onto which who knows whom, will hang who knows what, and then get it passed and have the issue come down to Trump’s signature.
By keeping it down to a regulatory issue of the bump-fire stock, the NRA might be figuring that making it a NFA item with a grandfather period keeps the issue out of Congress until they can have a chat with Ryan, who is proving to be a huge disappointment and a coward in taking on the Democrats.
I see your point and I can agree with you, however, we still run the risk of Congress making a law AND the ATF putting the bump stock on the NFA. I also see where the “Not one inch” crowd is coming from. We tried compromising for decades and look where that got us. This issue is very complex and there is no easy, non corruptable, or palatable solution to this problem. We do nothing and we look like monsters, we concede and we could lose a lot more than a gimmicky stock.
“The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.”
The NRA supports the 1986 machinegun ban and the NFA.
Wow.
OK….roll over, Republicans and those who just want to be the smartest a’hole in the room. drop your pants, lube up your crack, and get ready for some excruciating pain on the back side….happens every time…….just sayin’…… 🙂
Well I had a really spiffy NRA comment but it disappeared in the ether. But my membership is free so whatever. THIS is a colossal blunder agreeing with demtards. All they and the republitards had to do was…NOTHING.
The NRA needs to be standing by gun owners and NOT promoting ANY type of firearms control!! What the hell are they thinking?? I hate that this happened just as any other sane person does but we CANNOT fold to the will of the left! NOT AT ALL..!! It was not the bump fire stocks fault that these people got killed and wounded! It was the person behind the trigger that committed this heinous crime!! I am a Life member of the NRA! Do not shame me by taking a knee to liberal pressure!!
Or, the Democrats could be shooting themselves in the foot. The right is willing to give them the bump stock ban. But the Donks demand much more. So the whole deal collapses.
This is the same sequence of events that happened after Sandy Hook. Coburn was willing to give on background checks. Schumer demanded comprehensive registration too. The deal collapsed.
But Democrats may consider this a win. They will lose the legislation but retain the campaign/ talking point issue.
This is absolute BS. Anders Breivek killed more people and used a Mini-14.
It certainly is. I can think of ways that were simpler, cheaper, and much more effective than what this evil murderer did with his firearms.
The method I am thinking of would have killed more than half of the people in attendance, but I bet you wouldn’t hear the Commies (Dems & Libs) calling for my weapon of choice to be banned.
They would blame the murderer, not the tool he choose.
Sad to see them cave on this issue. I have a bump stock and it’s fun to shoot, (just a ammo eater) only a fad for me.. It is not for accuracy and will be lucking to put them all in a sheet of Plywood at 60-70 yards. Perhaps they can tie it to the National Right to carry or even the HPA hearing protection act.. The ATF can just drop the ball and say we do not recognize the bump stock as a NON NFA item. At least they approved it years back, can’t they change there stance now? and a done deal
“Despite the fact that the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions…”
The NRA is not a pro-gun-rights organization any more. It is an anti-Obama organization. It is a pro-Trump organization. I read recently in the American Rifleman that the NRA “has Trump’s back.” WTF? I thought I was the NRA. That’s what the bumper stickers used to say. When the hell did I become a Trump supporter?
The NRA, of which I am currently a “life member,” has become a rightwing, anti-immigration, xenophobic, anti-environmental, pro-idiot-president support group. Since I am not a supporter of xenophobia, pseudoscience, and stupidity, I’m left looking for an organization that fights for the Second Amendment, but otherwise keeps its nose out of other political issues.
Like Obama, let me be clear: I give no fucks about bump fire stocks. Don’t own one, never shot one, don’t see the point in them.
That said, this whole argument seems to me to be akin to talking about “Nail Polish Remover Control” after Manchester (that didn’t happen btw, at least not as far as I know). It’s basically a “useless” feel good argument that has no real effect other than to fuck with the 99.999% of purchasers who have no ill intent.
As such, I think it’s fucking stupid. BUT this one comes with some potentially serious side effects down the road depending on how courts view it.
At this point however I’ll wait for a few days to see how things shake out. LOL maybe McCain can sink yet another GOP bill and this time for some sort of good reason.
The nra have nothing learned from 1986 ………..
Full auto must trade in the same way as semi ore manual repeating firearms !
I actually don’t think they should ban the bump stock but if they add an amendment to the SHARE Act that banned bump stocks I would love to see the Dems try to explain them voting against it. Then the Republicans would have been the ones “to do something” and the Democrats opposed. It would be hilarious
I’ll repeat what I said in an earlier thread…
1) Bump fire stocks have never been used for a crime prior to this event, as far as we know.
2) Bump fire stocks are TOYS for people who like to shoot firearms faster, exactly the same as collectors of fully automatic firearms.
Banning an object used for a one-off crime is stupid. It deprives law-abiding people who use them legally of their entertainment.
There is a little notion called “freedom” which everyone who proposes banning these devices fails to recognize. People have a right to do what they want provided THEY don’t hurt someone else. The fact that a criminal uses the same object as those people to do a criminal act does NOT justify depriving those other people of their freedom to use that object.
Not to mention the obvious slippery slope which occurs when you start banning things people “don’t need.” That SAME argument has been used repeatedly by the anti-gun crowd to demonize semi-auto pistols and semi-auto rifles and magazine with greater than 10 rounds.
People don’t NEED a car that goes faster than 55mph, but we don’t ban them even though it might save thousands of lives every year when people exceed the speed limit.
People who who propose banning an object because people don’t “need” it are part of the problem. That includes the NRA who apparently is caving in in order to avoid further negative press. I get that people want to “make a deal” but there IS NO deal to be made. Ban one object on this basis and you’ll end up with no Second Amendment eventually.
It’s that simple.
I’ll add that technically speaking these devices do NOT turn a semi-auto weapon into a fully automatic weapon. They just enable the trigger to be pulled faster. The definition of a fully automatic weapon is one that fires multiple bullets with each trigger pull; semi-auto is one bullet per trigger pull and this remains true for bump fire devices.
People who get that wrong are just helping the enemy.
Seems there are a lot of people here who overestimate the NRA’s influence in the world of politics and firearms in general. Most of these people probably haven’t been NRA members for quite some time, if ever. People seem to act as though the NRA controls the legislative process. They don’t. Never have. The NRA-ILA doesn’t even spend all that much lobbying when compared to other PACs. So I’m not sure why there is so much frothing rage over this decision. Don’t like it? Don’t be in the NRA. People act like the NRA speaks for all guns owners, yet the NRA only has about 5 million members, which is a paltry amount compared to the actual number of gun owners in America. If you’re that miffed about this, make an extra contribution to GOA (another great organization that I’m also a member of). If the NRA is so bad, another organization will take it’s place.
They will never get a cent from me EVER. There’s a long history of NRA capitulation but I’m a young guy and now being first hand witness to this I will never give them a dime. All the trash they mail me is going straight to the bonfire.
To all the cucks who defend this never forget that gun rights are where they are now because of the constant capitulation from people and the allowed chipping away of our rights slowly over time.
Not with a bang but with a whimper.
Need to ban trucks as well, one truck killed 88 people in France and injured hundreds, which is more than las vegas . Trucks and air craft need to be banned we remember what happened on 9/11. Support congress banning trucks and aircraft.
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