(courtesy Moms Demand Action facebook page)

“The 12-year-old student who opened fire on a Nevada middle school campus, wounding two classmates and killing a teacher before he turned the gun on himself, got the weapon from his home,” ktar.com reports. “Washoe County School District police said they are still working to determine how the boy obtained the 9mm semi-automatic Ruger handgun used in the Monday morning spree at Sparks Middle School. The boy’s parents are cooperating with authorities and could face charges in the case, police said.” Once again, as in the Sandy Hook Spree killing, gun control advocates are waving the bloody shirt and bemoaning “easy access” to guns rather than, say, calling for an education campaign for parents on safe gun storage and/or recognizing signs of mental illness and exploring treatment options.

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94 COMMENTS

  1. If there was concrete proof the kid got the weapon via alien teleportation, the “Establishment” would still insist on regulating us anyway.

    Remember:a safe storage law disarms you just as well as a total ban.

    • I am actually OK with safe storage laws that only prescribe liability in the event of tragedy, what seem to me to be essentially “no harm, no foul” laws. I can see how tort laws might not cover a situation here a parents own carelessness leads to the death of their own child, since the aggrieved party would be the same parent who is also liable.

      However if you have managed to teach your kids to stay away from your firearms and to respect them and that is successful in your household, then the state needs to not be involved in that. I’ve heard many people relay stories of growing up with dad’s service revolver hanging in the holster on a kitchen chair and they knew damned well not to touch it.

      Unless there is some ‘gotcha’ involved that I have not figured out yet.

  3. Are parents liable if their kid steals their keys and then goes on a farmers market rampage? This is not an academic exercise to prove a point; I really don’t know.

    • I am going to guess that this will vary from state to state, but generally the parents are responsible financially for accidents involving the car.

    • Yes, they don’t see this logic. If your Teenage boy killed someone in a car accident (possibly purposeful) the parent’s would never be charged. Not going to happen. But if a teenage boy shoots his mom and steals her guns and goes on a classroom rampage… we need to “control access.”

      Given the average american (and how easily they are controlled), they respond to emotional and widely publicized news. That’s all. Their opinions are formulated based on hearsay. They are going to see a school shooting and listen to these anti-gunners and instantly agree that the guns have to go. However, the politicians are not in agreement. They are no fools. They completely know that guns are not to blame and that gun control is not going to solve these problems. They just tell the average american in an emotional and widely publicized manner that is so – completely for their own hidden reasons.

  4. Cue the mob of emotionally frenzied antis demanding that we store our firearms in $10,000 gun safes nobody can afford in 3…2…1…

    • Stackon makes plenty of cheap locked storage. My guess is the parents did nothing to secure the weapon.

      • The problem is that even if laws requiring “safe storage” did pass on the federal level (which are unenforcable unless they go hand in hand with random intrusion and inspection or are reduced down to post-incident prosecution fodder), all it would take is one kid knowing the combo to a parents safe or finding a way to open it (some StackOn cabinets are approved by the Cali DOJ yet would take little more than a crowbar to get open), and they’d be demanding something even more extreme.

        At this point; I’m certain that’s the grand plan here; demand laws that don’t actually fix the problem or prevent anything, that way the problem persists and they can continue to push for even more innefectual laws, all with the promise of “these laws will make things better, we promise.”

        • I know the grabbers would love new laws to continue to chip away at our rights. I’m not advocating for a law. If you like arming house robbers and the mentally unstable, you will have to pay for it.

        • I am fully aware that any gun safe can be opened by a thief with a couple of tools, some elbow grease, and determination. Absolute guaranteed security is nothing but a facade. I was illustrating that one of the tactics the antis want to use is to price the exercising of our rights so high that those who can’t afford it never try and those who do will eventually throw their hands in the air and say “fvck it, I’m done”. Look no further than NJ’s FID process. Even though the card doesn’t expire ’til you move out of NJ, It’s practically designed to intimidate you into not wanting to own a gun with all the paperwork and ridiculous wait times involved in applying. We should be just as vigilant towards these kind of deceptive processes as the people who want to ban gun ownership outright.

        • Cops lose guns with regularity. That extends to FBI SAs. Armories are broken into occasionally. Sometimes, for lack of action, the Feds just get bored and say “go ahead, take some guns and go to Mexico, you jolly little felons.”

          There is a danger to posting about an event whose details we have yet to learn. It can seem a bit like CNN jumping the gun on a story, elaborating on the scantest of rumored events with speculative filler. I suppose the blogging point is to leverage enthusiasm generated by the day’s news cycle, but overdoing that can seem louche.

          • The ATF lost several fully auto weapons during a botched sting in Milwaukee. They were never recovered. Those weapons weren’t bait, but actual issued weapons.

      • My guess is the parent’s would never have believed that their kid was in emotional turmoil at a prison called “public schools” and that he would never take that gun hidden between the mattress, etc and seek revenge.

        A much better question than “why was the gun not secured” would be… why did he shoot this teacher? What did this teacher do to him to make him seek this end?

        • Sorry, that’s a dumb question. I’ve been incredibly frustrated with specific people plenty of times in my life, and I never went out to do harm to any of them. Well adjusted people don’t. This crime wasn’t the victim’s fault, any more than it was the inanimate firearm’s fault.

        • There are no dumb questions. Only dumb people asserting questions are dumb when they don’t have satisfactory answers. It is reason to ask ….why did he shoot this teacher? What did this teacher do to him to make him seek this end? Because this in itself is the source of the action… not that a gun was accessible to the boy, so he picked it up, felt the power of the universe in his hands, and went on a rampage. So the reason matters. Was he being bullied? Was he being raped? Was he humiliated every day for year? What was it?

          Nowhere in my prior response did I state that it was the victim’s fault or that the crime was justified. It appears that there was some issues between the other children and the teacher (possibly ongoing) that were not being addressed by anyone. It is obvious to me that this child was not well adjusted. It is also obvious to me that the other children and teacher were targeted for a reason. That reason was was what I was trying to ascertain. As no one should be charged for anything (the perpetrator is dead), a reason at the very least should be pursued, rather than questioning easy access to guns, which is nobody’s business – as there is easy access to cars, knives, and many other objects that could have been used. Focus on the gun doesn’t answer any questions nor solve the problem.

        • It’s my understanding ( and I haven’t heard all the facts) that the teacher was a former Marine with two combat tours who was attempting to stop the shooting. I’m not sure there’s any evidence the kid was specifically targeting the teacher.

  6. Let’s not forget the prison like environment of schools. Free association is important to humans. Being forced into negative situations will make kids feel like they have no escape… Except through violence, a natural human reaction.

  7. I blame Gun Free Zones. Again. Still. If the kid knew some personnel in the school were armed, but was unsure of whom the armed were, things may have turned out differently.

    • You’re missing the point. It’s not “brown people” who don’t matter. When the government does the killing, the victim doesn’t matter. Brown, white, yellow, purple — all irrelevant. What matters is who does the killing.

      When the government kills, people love it.

      • “When the government kills, people statist progressives love it as long as a statist progressive is the President.”

  10. Another day with teachers being unable to protect the children under their care…because groups like Moms Demand Action would rather see people die than admit that an armed citizen could actually save lives.

  11. Got the gun by illegally taking it from his parents and carrying it illegally, facts schmacts!

    We need more paper because that’ll do the trick, like the piece of paper that says you can’t murder someone. Maybe if we have enough pieces of paper, we can wear them as body armor, that might stop the bullet since the paper isn’t stopping determined criminals. /sarc/

    • Has anyone analyzed the stopping power of paper? I mean scientifically? I know a few sheets isn’t going to do anything, but what is the stopping power of your average phone book? Romance novel? Harry Potter novel?

      Who has a high-speed camera and some available range space?

      • Sounds like this weekend’s fun project. I have been in the experimentation mode lately. I am thinking .38 specials, .45 ACP, and maybe all in with a 30-06.

  12. MOM DEMAND ACTION might want to first demand that parents act like… *GASP* adults. Raise your kids better, get them counseling, advocate against bullying, and if you own a gun, secure it.

    God forbid we actually hold parents responsible for their children.

    • Advocate against bullying…? Advocating does nothing….

      How about teaching our kids to deal with bullies appropriately, with an ass kicking…

      We try to stop bullies by making rules, that don’t they care about, then the kid getting pick on has his hands tied behind his back with all rules, we’re hurting the helpless, is it any wonder these things happen?

      I tell my kids, some one is bullying you, get them alone and pop them in the mouth. They’re not going to like it, you may get your assed kick, but do it enough times and they will stop messing with you. Nobody likes getting their sh$t rocked.

      We are treating our kids like the anti gun folks want to treat us gun owners, don’t defense yourself, we’ll make rules to stop someone that doesn’t care about rules then we can advocate for a utopia. How about we teach the kids getting picked on to defend themselves, maybe some ju jitsu or boxing, take away to weak targets.

      Bullies prey on the weak, just like criminals, maybe a few black eyes as kids bully will stop a future violent criminal adult, and maybe these kid bully retaliation cases go down, aren’t criminals just adult bullies?

      I don’t know, but maybe I’m idealistic or crazy, or both, just my 2 cents.

      • I have tried this line of reasoning. Parents that I have spoken to do not understand they are raising a victim. “Don’t fight back” and other phrases come out and I gently express my disapproval. When I ask “Why do you insist on raising a victim?” and advocate self defense, I am usually countered by “Violence solves nothing.”. I then point out that the most horrible tragedies in history and everyday crime are only successfully solved by violence, and they say “The police/military handles that”.

        /sigh sheeple…

        • My answer to “Violence never solves anything” is “You might want to take that up with the City Fathers of Carthage or Troy.”

      • My dad used to tell me that you didn’t have to beat up a bully to make them stop, you just had to make them hurt enough that they would move on after the first encounter. Worked every time. The problem today is with ‘zero tolerance policies’ that punish kids for doing just that. I would have gotten expelled a half a dozen times if I went to school now a days.

      • When I got bullied in school it was 2005, these nonsense laws were already in place.
        I also had a tendency to lose control with my fists and sort of black out, so my mother taught me to not retaliate and simply try to avoid it. My grandfather, wisest man ever, said fvck that. Beat the sh!t out of them. Guess who was right?

        Also my mother forgot to remind me that as long as they throw the first punch, it’s self defense, and I am indemnified from any liability as far as assault.

        Most bullies also aren’t very smart or fast. Their posse will usually disperse quite quickly if you just step out of the way for the first hit, slip behind them and put them in a chokehold. And not the playful, big brother kind. The kind where you actually restrict the bloodflow to their brains.

        For best results memorize the actual law pertaining to self defense and justifiable homicide, and recite while choking. Also, always have a reliable witness near you in case of legal proceedings.

        Teach your kids that and they won’t be messed with.

      • My dad told me if I ever just stood and took a punch without retaliating I shouldn’t bother comin home. If I threw the first punch when I got home he’d whip my ass. If I got into it after they hit me first even if I lost I did him proud.

  13. Does this mean Shannon Watts will go on tv somewhere again? I need to set my DVR.

    of course, CNN is reporting the kid was bullied . . . . . and took it out on the school. Ooops.

  14. Another day for a small percentage of lousy parents to not take *any* responsibility for their kids.
    Another day of lousy parents taking the easy way out and blaming someone else for their useless “parenting.”

    DEMAND ACTION!

  15. A 12 yr old shooting a handgun with his or her parents is perfectly normal…

    A 12 yr old stealing a handgun then shooting his or her classmate and turning the weapon on himself is very abnormal…

    There was something seriously wrong wth this situation and this boy, the handgun wasn’t it.

    Oh and, background checks nor an AWB wouldn’t have stopped this, but I imagine we’re going to hear about their “necessity” anyways.

    • The fact that this kid had access to a handgun is PLENTY wrong. Either he went nuts out of nowhere- which speaks to the fact that adolescents shouldn’t have guns, or (more likely) this kid was messed up and the parents didn’t want to accept that or were too lazy to account for it.

  16. ABC just showed a picture of a LC9. And then ran one of their shocking statistics. 32% of households own a firearm in America ( poll courtesy of Chicago university)

  18. 98,000 people died from medical malpractice in 2012. Ban healthcare! Those healthcare providers are blood thirsty, I tell ya!

    Seems this is missed or just gets a pass.

  19. Whatever happened to parenting. When I was little my grandfather left a loaded 30-30 by his front door, two colt SAA on his night stand an enfield in .303 by the door that looked out into the woods and a non modded AK 47 in the basement all loaded and I think I touched the 30-30 once before the hand of knowledge “enlightened” my dumb arse to leave them alone unless told otherwise.

    P.S. non modded means left as issued to troops ya know full auto.

    • Yep, I have a single shot .410 in my safe that was kept loaded with buckshot in the front coat closet growing up, I never even thought about hurting anyone with it.

      Guns aren’t the problem, parents and education are.

      • These weren’t in a safe and had no trigger locks… my grand daddy kept an eye on me and, if I touched one, took me out behind the wood shed so to speak.

  20. I don’t know what the gun-fetish MILFs want here – more laws?

    Because, as a former resident of the Sagebrush State, I happen to know the law. Here it is:

    NRS 202.300 Use or possession of firearm by child under age of 18 years; unlawful to aid or permit child to commit violation; penalties; child 14 years of age or older authorized to possess firearm under certain circumstances.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a child under the age of 18 years shall not handle or have in his or her possession or under his or her control, except while accompanied by or under the immediate charge of his or her parent or guardian or an adult person authorized by his or her parent or guardian to have control or custody of the child, any firearm of any kind for hunting or target practice or for other purposes. A child who violates this subsection commits a delinquent act and the court may order the detention of the child in the same manner as if the child had committed an act that would have been a felony if committed by an adult.
    2. A person who aids or knowingly permits a child to violate subsection 1:
    (a) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (b), for the first offense, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
    (b) For a first offense, if the person knows or has reason to know that there is a substantial risk that the child will use the firearm to commit a violent act, is guilty of a category C felony and shall be punished as provided in NRS 193.130.

    Right there at the end is the applicable law. Already on the books.

  21. Wow, they actually waited a whole day to climb over the dead body (bodies if you include the killer) to get to a microphone to spout their sh!t. Nice.

  24. At the end of the day this is just a very sad event. Two kids injured. A family lost their husband and father, who by all accounts I’ve read was an engaging and committed teacher. Another family is totally wrecked, probably never to understand how their own child could do something like this. Everyone will explore- many for their own gain – why this happened. There will be gnashing of teeth and rending of clothes and at the end of the day it is still just sad.

    The parents maybe could have done some things differently, as could have the school, as could have lots of the parties involved. But I know no truer thing than sometimes really bad things happen to really good people. Maybe a shooting on the way to church or a car accident while on their way to Disneyland or a plane crash on their way to visit the grandparents. Shit happens.

    There is no true safety, only being more or less safe. That said, complacency is not responsibility. It is always contingent upon us – the people of the gun – to be as responsible as we can, to secure our tools in such a way that prevents kids from getting their hands on them. Yes, they need to be accessible in some way in case of an emergency, but the general principle still stands. Adults have to do things to protect children. It’s what we are for. Teach them properly, whether to never touch a weapon unless we are with them, to fight against bullies, to seek us out if they are in pain, to listen between the words for what they might be saying to us even when we don’t want to hear it.

    No law can achieve that. No law can prevent things more that are already illegal. No ban will achieve it because harm is a factor of intent and not device. But this shouldn’t be about law, it should be about doing the right thing. Not because it’s required by law, but because it’s the right freaking thing to do.

  25. So, the teacher that was shot wasn’t allowed to carry in a gun free zone. Same issue, same results.

    • If you want to have kids that aren’t headcases, then PARENT them. Instill in them character, values, and morals. How hard is that? If the kid is still a dud, then RECOGNIZE it and deal with it.

      Enough of this “every child is special” crap. That’s why we have all these mini-mass murdering morons running around. Not enough discipline and recognizing and dealing with bad eggs as they develop. Hell, nowadays teachers can get sued for disciplining little Bobby or Jane in school.

      There’s your problem. Lack of parenting in the home, and neutered teachers at school. It’s no wonder kids today think they can get away with anything — even murder.

      In this case, it was a suicide and a murder. This kid obviously didn’t have any values. That’s the issue. Considering he only killed two people means he had a specific plan, the tool which is used is not the issue. Only a complete moron would focus on the tool used in this case.

      Why wasn’t the gun locked up when not in use? If you aren’t 100% sure your child is capable of making the right decisions about firearms usage, then you lock up your guns when they are in proximity. It’s that simple.

      On the other hand, there were many many examples of home defense by children and teens that made the right choices (because they have values and character) to defend themselves, siblings, and their property when confronted by criminals.

      • I was born in ’93. I grew up with the ‘Human Rights you can’t hit me’ crowd. I actually had a 30 page booklet on Human Rights when I was 2, specifically on Children’s Rights.

        When I did something that I knew would get my ass sizzling I would run to fetch it. I’d say to my mother, “My rights say you can’t give me a hiding.”. She’d take the booklet, put it on the counter and give me my hiding saying, “Where are those rights now?”.

        I was asswhipped with a belt three times in my life. I deserved it too. But I didn’t get it everyday. I didn’t have to. I learned to behave because I knew the threat was always there. From the ages 9 and up I wasn’t hit once.

        I learned the lesson that most decent people learned. The one kids today aren’t allowed to learn.

        Your actions have consequences.

  26. Another day, another case of criminal negligence. It’s the negligence of failing to guard our children in a real (armed) way. After all of these school shootings we seem to accept guarding our precious children with nothing more potent than a “no guns” sign.

    The criminals who determinedly and intentionally undermine any attempts at real (armed) security and leave our children exposed to evil need to be prosecuted. Yes, it’s that important. It’s for the children.

    • +1. Ralph, you are on to something here. This is possibly the only way to keep children completely safe in today’s shi++y world.

  28. And since it’s all about the character of the person using tools, send this article to Moms Against Common Sense:

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/09/15-Year-Old-Boy-Uses-AR-15-To-Defend-House-Against-Burglars

    As per usual, people use firearms to safe themselves EVERY DAY. You simply can’t win that debate.

    And since the parents in this country are too busy coddling their kids instead of raising them with values and morals, these cases will continue to crop up.

    Maybe we should institute a fine like Japan has when people jump in front of trains and inconvenience everyone on the train… Maybe if parents were somewhat liable for the “unique snowflake” children they produce, they would take parenting a little more seriously.

    Maybe there should be a national campaign of How to Parent for Dummies and How to discipline your Idiot Children, because it’s apparently a lost art.

  30. Is this about record time for waving the bloody shirt?
    Wow.
    Even I would grieve for the victims and their families. And I’m an a$$hole.
    MDA has sunk to a new low. And this is a group that some in the previous post wanted us to be civil to?

  33. Once again it’s the guns fault! How about we wonder why a twelve year old is sooooo angry that he wants to kill people?????? Locking all the guns in a safe doesn’t cure CRAZY!!!!!!

    • Man, the seal blackout at the end of that video was GREAT. I want to buy one of their t-shirts just to support the series.

  35. Could someone define a spree killing to me? I know a shopping spree means you blow a lot of cash on a lot of items you typically don’t need. To compare a guy who went on a shooting spree of 15 kids to a single person shooting unless you count the second death (suicide) as a qualifier for a spree? What is the spree threshold?

    • The lib media have tried to use 3 or more deaths because that rules out those situations where the perp was stopped early such as the Portland Mall Shooting and Pearl High (1997 Mississippi) or The Peach House Shoot in Tx last year (where 3 people and 2 dogs were killed including the perp). There were several students shot but they guy was taken into custody by an assistant principal with a .45 in the Mississippi case. The perp is serving life for killing his mother and gf and shooting several other students but oddly, this case rarely shows up in there lists nor does the Appalachian School of Law shootings where the perp was taken into custody by 2 armed students following the murder of a dean and professor.

        • It isn’t getting anywhere near the coverage Newtown or Aurora. Except for Waxman, Santa Monica faded away even though there were 6 killed but that was in part due to the ethnic background of the shooter and parents. Another myth the media tries to perpetuate is that these things are always white dudes. However, Va Tech, Santa Monica, Navy Yard, Ft. Hood etc. were not.

          This is the FBI’s take on this:

          “The general definition of spree murder is two or more murders committed by an offender or offenders, without a cooling-off period. According to the definition, the lack of a cooling-off period marks the difference between a spree murder and a serial murder. Central to the discussion was the definitional problems relating to the concept of a cooling-off period. Because it creates arbitrary guidelines, the confusion surrounding this concept led the majority of attendees to advocate disregarding the use of spree murder as a separate category. The designation does not provide any real benefit for use by law enforcement.

          The different discussion groups at the Symposium agreed on a number of similar factors to be included in a definition. These included:

          • one or more offenders
          • two or more murdered victims
          • incidents should be occurring in separate events, at different times
          • the time period between murders separates serial murder from mass murder

          In combining the various ideas put forth at the Symposium, the following definition was crafted:

          Serial Murder: The unlawful killing of two or more victims by the same offender(s), in separate events.”

          Reference (section II)

          http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

    • Also, it’s not specifically spree like you asked about, but the last several times I’ve seen propaganda from their side about “mass murder,” they’ve used “four or more” as their threshold.

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