In response to a variety of reports of SIG SAUER P320 pistols discharging when dropped, the company announced today that it “developed a number of enhancements in function, reliability and overall safety including drop performance.” SIG is offering these upgrades to all P320 owners.
The M17 pistol selected by the US Army as its new sidearm of choice is not covered by this offer, because it already has all of the following:
– Reduced-mass fire control components (trigger, sear, and striker)
– New sear housing (reduces sensation of “double click” during trigger pull)
– Trigger disconnect (disengages the trigger bar if the slide is not fully in battery)
The SIG P320 trigger that passed myriad safety testing protocols — the trigger SIG submitted for the Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS) testing — is the sames as the trigger currently in commercially-available P320s.
These upgrades were engineered subsequently, based on feedback on the trigger pull feel and requirements of certain contracts, then rolled into the M17s that are now shipping. SIG says they will appear as standard in future commercial P320s.
For owners of current, commercial P320s, SIG’s offering what they’re calling “voluntary upgrades.” The company claims the aforementioned changes greatly mitigate the specific drop safety vulnerability identified in recent non-standard drop safety tests. SIG says it will provide further details on the program next week.
For now, here’s SIG’s press release:
SIG SAUER Issues Voluntary Upgrade of P320 Pistol
P320 pistol meets requirements for industry and government safety standards; performance enhancements optimize function, safety, and reliability.
Newington, NH (August 8, 2017) – The P320 meets U.S. standards for safety, including the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) / Sporting Arms Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI®), National Institute of Justice (NIJ), as well as rigorous testing protocols for global military and law enforcement agencies.
The design of the SIG SAUER P320 overcomes the most significant safety concern in striker-fired pistols today: the practice of pressing the trigger for disassembly. This can be performed with a round in the chamber which has resulted in numerous incidents of property damage, physical injury, and death. The disassembly process of the P320, however, uses a take-down lever rather than pressing the trigger, eliminating the possibility of discharge during the disassembly process.
Recent events indicate that dropping the P320 beyond U.S. standards for safety may cause an unintentional discharge.
As a result of input from law enforcement, government and military customers, SIG has developed a number of enhancements in function, reliability, and overall safety including drop performance. SIG SAUER is offering these enhancements to its customers. Details of this program will be available at sigsauer.com on Monday, August 14, 2017.
The M17 variant of the P320, selected by the U.S. government as the U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS), is not affected by the Voluntary Upgrade.
“SIG SAUER is committed to our approach on innovation, optimization, and performance, ensuring we produce the finest possible products,” said Ron Cohen, President and CEO of SIG SAUER. “Durability, reliability and safety, as well as end-user confidence in the SIG SAUER brand are the priorities for our team.”
For more information on SIG SAUER, please visit us at sigsauer.com.
If you don’t voluntarily volunteer in this replacement *not a recall* you could voluntarily shoot yourself in the face…
One wonders if this change completely resolves the problem, given Sig’s apparent inability to observe the problem in the first place and the speed at which this change was proposed, in the second.
The speed is understandable, given that the upgrade is already in place in P320s sold now. Engineering is already done, manufacturing is up to speed.
Concerning SIG’s “apparent inability to observe the problem in the first place,” most manufacturers will test to industry standards, with the idea that, “If they are going to put themselves in the position of determining what is safe, and how to test for that safety, who are we to contradict them?”
Especially given the costs of extra testing.
I deleted my cookies from TTAG, and I still have to enter my info. Firefox.
I am going to take advantage of this, I would like a safer gun, if that is possible. I am hoping for an upgraded (They type you would pay plenty of money for) trigger job and anything else they can do to improve this deal. Those of us who send our in are going to do the same thing when I sent my p320c i(When I first got it I had nothing but double feeds and failure to eject in every mag). I had to drop it off at a Fed-Ex store. They sent it back to my house (Adult signature required). I asked the people what it would cost if I were the one on the hook for shipping alone. I was told over 200.00. The gun had a bad extractor and spring fresh out of the factory. All in all with the techs time 2 small parts & Fedex fees were are probably looking at 300.00 possibly a little less. We are not going to be able to send the USPS which would be much cheaper. It took 2 weeks for the turn around on just my gun. I hope Sig does not hire a bunch of day labor schmucks to turn style our guns back to us quicker. They only have so many qualified people. Each gun is going to take some time. I hope you all have back up weapons. If not ,borrow one from a friend so you are not high & dry. Lets us pray we get our guns back as quick and safe and better than before. DO I HEAR AN AMEN?
Note they have cleverly avoided use of the word “recall”
Sad
It has, however, been labeled as an “upgrade”.
If users voluntarily volunteer to keep using the degraded version – all bets are off.
S&W did the EXACT same thing with the Shield, Lawyers write these things
As I understand it at this point (still at SIG right now):
These were upgrades already completed before there was any knowledge of any drop safety issue. The P320 had passed every test thrown at it by various states, LEO agencies, governments, military, etc. We saw the certificates/letters from the various agencies showing this.
These upgrades, in particular the reduced-mass parts, happen to resolve the identified drop problem.
Jon and I have MUCH more info, too. We’ll be writing that up tonight and everyone will have a much fuller picture.
So basically the testers at various states, LEO agencies, governments, military, etc were a bunch of incompetent retards. Because the thing is not drop safe.
So true. Even with the upgrade, we’d be fools to use it as EDC.
No, those various testers were following accepted drop testing standards. They were not haphazardly throwing guns about wondering if there were any possible way to make one fire. Testers follow pre-prescribed testing methods and protocols. It’s common sense. The same as GM never tested to see what happened if people drove around with 3 lbs of keys on their keychain, the same as Telsa never tested to see what happened if someone ran over random steel scrap at 60 mph. Not all circumstances are foreseeable.
@Fred Really? How many EDCers have you heard about having an issue? Oh, the same zero I have heard of.
Drop tests can not account for all statistical variances in which an object can fall and the inertia generated. The number of angles and does at which the object can fall and the impact force generated can create thousands of different results from a spherical 360° drop test.
So nice of you guys to throw someone under the bus while you are in possession of greater knowledge. Bunch of winners you are, Blue falcon tastes just like chicken.
That’s because technically speaking they have no need to recall them. They meet US (ANSI) safety standards, “Recent events indicate that dropping the P320 beyond U.S. standards for safety may cause an unintentional discharge.”
That being said, I think it time to re-evaluate our safety standards and testing methodology.
They have a pending lawsuit. Issuing a recall sounds like an admission of guilt. Voluntary upgrade sounds like they’re magnanimous. It is sad, though, when the right thing to do seems so obvious and yet it isn’t done.
And what do you propose the “Right thing” is?
Recall a product that passes all industry and government standards for safety?
Especially for a theoretical problem that as of right now has (1) anecdotal account of real-life incidence?
Methinks we’re taking it a little heavy on the self-righteous sauce…
Ebby123 says:
August 8, 2017 at 16:33
“…Methinks we’re taking it a little heavy on the self-righteous sauce…”
Of course we are,this is TTAG .
Under the Federal Rules of Evidence, subsequent remedial measures are not admissible to prove culpability.
This HAS resulted in DEATH?
There goes their lawsuit chances.
The only reference to death at this point was referring to the methods of breaking down other firearms which require pulling the trigger, which can be done with a round in the chamber, and can (and has) caused death.
I see nothing stating this drop safety failure of the P320 has resulted in death….
FAIL.
Should have added at the very least that they are working with the testing standard boards to develop new more stringent testing criteria.
I want to know how they already have “upgrades” for a trigger system they didn’t know until a few days ago had any problems at all?? Calling bullshit on that one.
Nice dig at Glock, though.
Not super impressed with this.
The “we made it safe to take down!” bit is irritating. We are protecting you from being stupid, but not from accidents. Because we are smarter than you? Or something?
If pulling the trigger to take it down makes it more drop safe I’ll take that, thanks.
Yeesh.
Their other option was to go with a sear release like the Ruger SR series and M&P Series. although both can be taken down with just pulling the trigger.
The Ruger SR series you just have to push the ejector down, no trigger pull necessary. You CAN pull the trigger instead of pushing the ejector down to get it off but you might as well just do it while you’re clearing the weapon since you need the slide locked back to pull the takedown pin anywhoo.
I agree. Takedown safety? GMAFB!
This thing looks like it was written by a first year comms student. How is the disassembly of the gun in any way related to the drop safety issue? Just adding fluff so you can make your one page release format? It’s amateur hour over there.
The trigger dingus blocks the operation required to release the sear. You need to release the sear/striker to disassemble.
Sig P320 has no trigger dingus
Hence why the trigger dingus/drop safety is related to the disassembly the gun. By not using one, Sig made it “easier” to field strip the gun.
_GUN_ IS FINE! WE MAKE SAFE FOR TAKING OF PART! YOU COMPLAIN MUCH! WE MAKE SO YOU NOT COMPLAIN! WILL TELL HOW LATER! _SIG_SAUER IS AWESOME!
*edited because f*ck 3rd part advertisement hyperlinking.
I have the gray guns trigger upgrade, does anyone know if this fixes the problem or if I still need to look at the upgraded trigger from sig?
Thanks
Call or email GGI!
So no one has any appreciation for Sig’s prompt addressing of the problem and offer of a solution?
Whew, tough crowd…
I’m not sure how prompt I think this is. It’s not slow to me. But fast? I unno.
I am glad they are fixing it. But I am annoyed that they are using this tone.
Because they spend the first 3/4 of the press release defending themselves.
If they had said “we screwed up and we will fix it so your gun is absolutely safe”, you would see a very different reaction here.
Sig’s press release reads with all the sincerity of “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.”. It is weasel-worded and denies the painfully obvious.
To me, actions speak much louder then words here. Yes, they should have come out on the first sentence and issued an apology, but they are doing the important part, and quickly. They are on top of taking care of business and doing the right thing, good enough for me.
The problem I have is the timeframe between them denying there’s a problem to admitting there MAY be a problem to having a fix is too short. They have known there is an issue and they have been engineering a solution for who knows how long.
Something about the coverup is always worse than the scandal ever would have been on its own seems appropriate to me here.
Yeah, check out the lawsuit regarding the gun going off and shooting a cop in the leg which occurred in January!
I understand how engineering and manufacturing can sometimes go sideways in unexpected ways, I do not fault them one single bit because of the engineering defect, shit happens. I just want them to be forthcoming when there is an issue.
Like with ruger and the manual safety issue on the Mk.IV, it’s a very specific set of circumstances that 99.99% of the time simply won’t happen but as soon as it was discovered, before anything happened in the wild, they were proactive: told people exactly what circumstances the condition would happen and offered an immediate fix (with bonus goodies for your trouble).
Come’on Ted, you have to know that release was read by half a dozen lawyers so as to scrub any and all humanity that might have crept in.
Sure, but it doesn’t change our reaction to it. Check out Springfield’s recall on the XD-S; much more straightforward. Of course Springfield kind of bungled the recall PROCESS, but their notice was far more proactive and no weasel-words at all.
This response makes things look much much worse. Its one of the dumbest press releases I’ve ever seen.
Very tough. It took a class action lawsuit to get Taurus to offer anything (not much actually) to the owners of its pistols that can drop fire.
It is clear that Sig Sauer knew about this drop safety issue but never addressed the issue when they discovered the defect. The pistol meets all required and Saami tests. Why bother to admit to having a failed safety feature after releasing the pistol to the public. It would just cause a loss of financial gain. If Sig Sauer just found out about the defect, there would be no immediate fix or solution which they say they already have. Perhaps the new model tested for the military trials has the right stuff to make it drop safe. Did they test for this drop angle? Probably not since it’s not a required test. If they did test the pistol certainly they tested the old model as well. In conclusion, they knew about the issue but didn’t say anything to save face and money. I currently have 3 Sig P320’s and do not plan on sending them back as I don’t plan on dropping mine but I’m disappointed in Sigs values of honesty.
The industry standard in testing needs to be updated. Who knows how many other brands will fire if tested beyond what the industry at the moment dictates. I am glad that Sig is offering this though. But it is worth noting that there is no recall because even though the pistol can discharge when tested beyond the industry standard, it still passes safety levels of current industry testing standards.
If it fires on the second time you drop it (as in TTAG’s video) then it isn’t”drop safe”. Especially if you’re already aware of the issue and you’ve already been sued over the issue and the Dallas PD has banned use of your pistol, and then you issue a press release to reassert that your pistol is “drop safe.”
This issue will not affect Glocks or XDs because they were specifically designed to avoid the exact issue that causes this Sig to fail the simplest of drop tests. Glock foresaw this and put in the trigger safety decades ago to prevent this very obvious issue. Sig took it out and surprise, surprise — it happens.
Any of you Sig haters realize how many Glock people that have been shot in the leg or ass without dropping their pistol first?
. . . because they all pulled the trigger? Isn’t that how guns are supposed to work? Should we be amazed and perplexed when a pull of the trigger fires the gun? Do you want the trigger to do something else, such as raise the sights or eject the magazine?
They are either really quick on their feet, or they had prior awareness and were already preparing countermeasures.
Sig,
This response is a failure.
You need to own this and commit to doing the right thing TODAY, not a week from now.
Would you accept this response from any other product you own? Your car? It’s that serious.
Do the right thing. Recall and customer service the hell out of this.
They said they passed all standard tests, if you drop it in a non standard way it can fire. They are offering an upgrade to the gun to fix the issue. Not sure what more you want? Any admission beyond that will open them up to numerous lawsuits. And what they are saying it true.
They need a week because the engineers have to scramble for a solution.
I don’t always drop my gun accidentally, but when I do – I be sure do it in the ‘standard way’. Wait, what?!?
“if you drop it in a non standard way it can fire”
I’ve ONLY ever dropped my gun in the prescribed, standard way…
“Recent events indicate that dropping the P320 beyond U.S. standards for safety may cause an unintentional discharge.”
Reading comprehension is low today.
Dropping you’re pistol in a way different than US safety standards might cause it to fire. Because they only tested it the standard way.
I think Sig should have a more apologetic tone, but this statement alone should call to question EVERY pistol that is drop tested. Regardless of manufacturer.
Any device that has a standard test for some functionality, and that device passes the test… means ship it.
Where do we draw the line? If the gun drop tests fine at whatever the standard height is, but not at 2x the standard height, then it’s performing as designed. Even if the gun fails at standard height plus half an inch, it’s still good to go. If we extend the standard height, then the gun fails to pass. If the standard height is 6 inches, perhaps it needs to be updated. But when the guy that’s working on the air conditioning drops his Sig from 10 feet over a concrete floor and it goes off, is that Sig’s fault? Most manufacturers engineer in a safety margin, meaning if the standard drop test height is 12 inches, they test up to 18 inches, just so they can be sure that it will always pass the test. Do we want a gun to be drop safe from a mile height? It can be done, but not cheaply and definitely not smoothly. Where should the line be? How high should the pass/fail line be? I don’t have these answers. I would say, tentatively, the line should be about 6 feet. That would encompass most scenarios my feeble mind can conjure. Am I going to drop my stainless 1911 6 feet to test it, not on your life. When I’m aiming down my sights, I’m holding the pistol about 6 feet from the ground, but about 3 feet from the bench. Similarly, when I’m holding my pistol at waist height, it’s about 40 inches from the ground, so I’d say minimum drop test of 40 inches. That would cover it falling from a table, or a workbench, or a holster ( if I was allowed to have one ). Then again, I very rarely am handling a hot weapon without the safety on.
I want firearms to be safe. I’m a klutz, uncoordinated, and easily distracted. I drop stuff all the time. Just because I haven’t dropped a gun yet doesn’t mean it isn’t going to happen. Knowing my propensity for accidents, I’d say it’s inevitable. So I want a gun to go bang when I’m pulling the trigger, and never when I’m not. I also want a light, crisp trigger, a light, comfortable pistol, in a heavy caliber. These are mutually exclusive conditions.
>>Would you accept this response from any other product you own? Your car?
You mean like how Honda took well over a year to replace their killer airbags?
O2
Passing standardized tests provides no confidence in the face of unbiased evidence demonstrating a repeatable and serious defect from more than one unrelated source.
Sig’s first step should have been a recall. It wasn’t and there still isn’t one. No notice has been given to stop using a potentially unsafe product. All they mention is that you don’t have to pull the trigger to disassemble the firearm and there’s a free upgrade.
If Sig or Ron Cohen, President and CEO of SIG SAUER, stands behind this product and doesn’t feel it’s defective, let him stand in front of a P320 during ten of these drop tests.
What I want is for Sig to do the right thing, not merely the legally expedient thing. Recall and customer service the hell out of this.
So what are these “upgrades” they are offering? Will the FC/firearm since it’s the serialized part have to be sent back to Sig and then wait and wait and wait till they do the fix and send it back.
Let’s throw some Gl(c)ocks on the ground and see what happens
Not a damn thing. People have been doing that for years. Glock specifically designed their trigger to prevent this exact issue.
So there a proper way to accidentally drop their firearm according to US safety guidelines to prevent it from discharging? Are they serious?
EXACTLY.
If the ‘upgrade’ makes the trigger heavier or mushier then no thank you. The trigger is at the low end of good already.
They actually lower the weight of the trigger part itself, NOT the trigger pull. It shouldn’t affect the trigger pull, and the X5 (I think that is what it is called?) version that has an “Improved” trigger never had it because the trigger is a lighter part.
It probably needs a longer term solution that lowering the trigger part’s weight. That works for now though.
Translation: “There’s nothing wrong with it but we’re replacing it anyway and LOOK AT THAT BABY!”
Sig won the Military contract with the most cocaine and escorts. So the sig melts and fires while dropped this is going to be a huge waste of taxpayers money
It has long been my contention that polymer pistols are unsuitable for US military use. They will not survive the abuse they get in the field. Polymer pistols may be fine for militaries like the Austria or even the UK but we don’t operate that way. Cancel the contract and but the M-9A3.
Plastics do weird things sometimes when long-term stored too hot or around chemicals or fumes. All metal is the only way to go. The extra weight stabilized the gun better, too. And if you run out of ammo, you can beat someones brains out with them, while plastic may only cause a mild concussion.
Wow, I guess some people won’t be satisfied until the P320 is totally withdrawn from the Market, the Army is required to drop the Sig and switch to the Glock and the Executives of Sig are publicly drawn and quartered.
Sig lied. Contract died.
I have lost all confidence in SIG products. Many moons ago SIG handguns were consider the Cadillac of guns. Their Sig 550 was one of the best military rifles in the world. Then they decide to make a semi auto rifle known as the 556 which was a disaster. Then they tried to market the SIg 250 ( the hammer version of the 320) . It got few buyers. Then there was the MCX upgrade. It was a brilliant move to put a 10-12 LB trigger on the original version of the MCX and now this. Not to mention that one of the biggest sections on their website is the list of discontinued products.
Some anti gun states have drop tests that a gun has to past before it its allowed to be sold in the state. Thanks to this event the anti gun politicians that push these tests just got more creditability.
Gonna be interesting.
Shipping multiple “firearms” in a single little envelope.
My third recall this year. Can I pick ’em or what?
Customers expect more from a premium brand. SIG always positioned itself as the high brow tool of serious operators but it appears they actually cut corners in design and sometimes sell slipshod products. This fiasco certainly gives credence to the perception that SIG SAUER is the Bose speakers of the gun world.
Yeah, Bose is the go-to for people that think they know what a high-fidelity sound system is like but have simply never been exposed to the good shit.
So, does this mean that the overall safety enhancements were known by Sig and withheld from commercial pistols? They better hope that nobody gets hurt between now and then – lots of liability for the period of time where they knew of a safety issue and failed to act to recall. Also, read somewhere else that they aren’t sure yet if they are going to charge for this voluntary up-grade?
If this fixes the problem then I’d say they done good. If not, well then they didn’t do so well.
I’m not sure how this issue got past them but I can see how it could. Every time you roll out a new product, even one similar to others in your lineup, you get bugs. That’s the nature of the beast.
It’s always the little details that snarl up everything. Sometimes troubleshooting and fixing them is easy. Other times you have engineers out on the manufacturing floor working with fabricators for weeks to diagnose and fix some little issue.
How long did it take Taurus to admit they had a real issue? I mean how many people actually died? 1 or 2? Any number is unacceptable. No confirmed discharges have been reported that I have read.
Ummm: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/07/breaking-mhs-winner-sig-sauer-sued-police-officer-shot-dropped-holstered-p320/
Sig knew this was an issue but only with the commercial models of the 320! The M17 versions have the “upgraded” trigger system. I guess that means that the public AND the police are not as important to Sig as the US Army is!?!? Sig has screwed up majorly. I had been considering buying a 320 but not anymore. I have scratched Sig off my list right along with Glock!
“The design of the SIG SAUER P320 overcomes the most significant safety concern in striker-fired pistols today: the practice of pressing the trigger for disassembly.”
That would be bad design.
My 2010 Taurus 9mm. PT24/7 Pro LS DS requires the slide to be locked open to remove the takedown pin, thus ejecting any cartridge that was in the chamber. Then release the slide and pull the trigger to remove the slide.
Any gun that you can leave the slide forward to remove the takedown pin and pull the trigger is unsafe.
Of course one should ALWAYS eject the magazine and rack the slide before takedown anyway, but sometimes you can’t fix stupid
I own Sigs and Iike them but I had to laugh at the “we have a take down lever so you don’t have to pull the trigger to disassemble” remarks. I guess they’re still butt hurt because Glock is questioning their Army win. Just fix the damned things and skip the “my guns better than yours” nonsense. PS, the P250 had the same setup years ago. Don’t brag about old tech.
S&W for the WIN!!!!!!
i HAVE TWO P320, FULL SIZE AND CARRY, LET ME KNOW WHAT YOUR PLANS ARE FOR FIXING THIS
Carry them Israeli style? Leave them locked in the safe? Sell them quickly? Buy a Glock? Buy TWO Glocks?
Wouldn’t it have been easier, right at the beginning, to just use a Glock-style trigger (you know, the one that’s been operating reliably and vritually infallibly since 1980, in MILLIONS of pistols) and get it over with, like everyone else? I mean, if you’re going to copy somebody’s pistol, why not just COPY it? It saves SO many embarrassments! Besides, by this point, we already have Smith&Glocks, and SpringGlocks, and RuGlocks, and Heckler&Glocks, and BeretGlocks–why should SIG be any different? Deep down, they’re ALL Glocks–with extra bits, more complexity, and slight changes in what was a good design to begin with in the industrial and utility sense. The LAST thing one should do is to design a GlockClone with a dangerous trigger, don’t you think?
Oh, the Schadenfreude is RICH in this story. . .
But then you’d still have that god-awful Glock trigger. I haven’t tried a Gen4, but the Gen2 or 3 I rented had the worst trigger ever.
While I don’t think Glock triggers are that bad I acknowledge that they are not great either – but the Walther PPQ uses a Glock-style trigger safety and yet has, IMHO, the best out-of-the-box trigger on a plastic striker-fired gun.
Hopefully, Sig won’t be added to the Official Boycott List (TM).
I just wander how many other striker fired pistols have the same problem if dropped like in the video of the SIG P320.
Has anyone done this with Glock and other pistols?
This is a example of how FAKE NEWS manipulates.
So the next complaint will be..
How the 320 upgrade has a terrible trigger pull or how it hasn’t prevented suicides..
As far as the Sig Hateboys…Haters gota Hate. Thats cool…
Meantime in other News…
http://www.tactical-life.com/news/sig-sauer-p320-dallas-pd/
You may get hit by a car leaving your house…
Please come up with a fix.
The condom may break, please come up with a fix.
Posters on his site stink of Progressive Gun Owners. All hail David Brock.
Since the condom maker also makes baby bottle nipples, it is a win-win for them.
This is not a valid comparison. A better one would be “your car may explode if you get rear-ended”.
Drop safeties that work have been around for a long time. This isn’t a mishandling issue, this is an engineering failure from a company that has no excuse to be making mistakes like this.
Especially, ESPECIALLY in a /combat handgun/. You know things don’t go right in combat, right? That “proper handling” is not something you can depend on to keep your gun from shooting you when things have gone so badly that you no longer have access to a functioning rifle?
Do you think seatbelts are a fussy “progressive” affectation, too?
Do you own a 320, i’ll give you 50cent for your Unsafe Gun
Hey! 14th Amendment, Bro.
You can’t just trade poor Fiddy like that.
Memory tells me that back around 2008 Ruger changed the trigger in the SR9 to a Glock-like safety-blade trigger for a very similar reason: the original solid trigger allowed the pistol to possibly fire if dropped muzzle up with the safety off. Ruger was quite forthright and offered an immediate recall and, I believe, delayed the introduction of other products until they straightened it all out.
“As a result of input from law enforcement”
AKA multi-million dollar lawsuit that will be quietly settled out of court in a year or so.
A problem was identified and Sig has provided a solution in a matter of what? Days? Weeks?
It sure beats the hell out of Remington’s response to complains over the 700 series of rifles. How long did Springfield wait before issuing the recall of the XDm(?) series (and then people bitched about how much worse the trigger had become)? As others have mentioned; how quickly did Taurus issue a recall for multiple models?
The only people that possibly moved faster than Sig was Ruger and no one was calling for their scalps…
Eh, this doesn’t shake my confidence in Sig pistols, and not just because I don’t own any striker fired designs, but because they have made good quality pistols.
Try months. An officer was shot in the leg in January when his P320 discharged after accidentally being dropped. Sig also stated in its press release that the M17 US Army version did not have this problem only the commercial models! This is not looking good for Sig!
And how exactly did the tactical response officer manage to shoot himself in his leg with his holstered P320? Because, I don’t know about you, but when I carry a firearm (loaded or not, holstered or not) I carry it like a knife; muzzle down and pointed in a safe direction. So how did this smooth as greased shit tactical cop drop a pistol upside down when it should have been attached to his operator operating operationally tactical drop leg holster?
Was he spinning the damn thing old west style before performing a cool re-holster? Because something smells fishy that it dropped upside down at just the right angle to shoot him in the knee.
And you’re right, the M17 would not suffer from this failure because it has a manual safety that disconnects the trigger in much the same fashion as the Beretta 92 & 96 series of pistols, as well as, the third generation Smith & Wessons. Fine, we can put a manual safety that deactivates the trigger on every firearm currently on the market.
However, I cannot throw a stone here without hitting a comment bitching about manual safeties. The uproar if every firearms manufacturer mounted a manual safety to every firearm in their catalogue would be so loud that it would disprove the movie tag line that in space no one can hear you scream.
I have watched people walk away from the gun counter because the only Shield in stock had a manual safety.
And for everyone else who is extolling the virtues of the Glock trigger you are also right. Glock triggers are so perfect we had to develope a special slang term for injuries caused by re-bolstering their pistols.
Again, I don’t have a dog in this fight because I don’t own striker fired handguns.
Do they consider seat belts an upgrade?
So a few days ago they deny there’s an issue. Now there’s an upgrade, not a recall, that may fix an issue they said doesn’t exist. Have I got that right? Boy, those online videos of Sig 320s cooking off when dropped must have struck a nerve, plus that little just announced lawsuit where a 320 went off injuring a trooper when it was dropped within a holster. Lawyers make life difficult for everyone and often suppress the truth from being unleashed. I hope Sig learns from this. They’re somewhat diminished in my eyes as a result of this. I inherited a P226 and it shoots fine, but given its size, it mostly sits in a safe and only visits the range once in a blue moon for exercise.
Fair enough…I do think they are addressing it quickly if awkwardly.
I have replaced the stock trigger with the Apex Sig P320 enhanced trigger. Any idea how that might affect the drop issue?
It’s clear to me that,
1) The standard drop tests are crap. My pistol ranges don’t have carpeting or rubber mats.
2) Only a genuine recall will do. This is why we can’t just kill all the lawyers (sarc). It’s going to take some opportunists with dollars signs in their eyes to get Sig to do the right thing.
_______
Sig claims the new trigger group has reduced mass fire control components including the trigger, sear, and striker. Does that include the trigger bar? Because that is where most of the moving mass is on most semi-auto pistols.
Remember the ARMY version has a manual safety AND the gun as is meets all current requirements along with noting in the manual that the gun could go off if dropped when loaded. That being said, it seems short sided to not have addressed this issue like Glock and Smith have done.
Noting that the gun can go off if dropped when loaded is not an excuse; the problem is that it is not acceptable to have designed and built a firearm in 2017 that can go off when dropped. The technology to prevent that was perfected three decades ago.
The Army version was the lowest bid not the best gun. The jury still out, personally I don’t trust that gun and would hate to have to depend on it.
Lightweight “Europistols” are for pansies, sissies and continentals.
Real metal is for real men.
It must be exhausting to have to defend your masculinity against the insidious threat of guns that are easier to carry and use.
Your ship sailed around 1990, friend.
Now that I have spent about an hour scrutinizing the internals of my XD and CZ-75B I think I understand the drop safety of those two.
Commenters have asked, “What about the Springfields and Glocks? I bet they do the same thing as the P320.” No the XD will not.
The Springfield XD is interesting. It has a very light plastic trigger and trigger safety blade. The trigger is connected to a steel trigger bar. So almost all of the mass is in the trigger bar. When you pull the trigger backward, the trigger bar moves forward. In order to have a P320 style drop ND, you would have to drop the XD on its muzzle because you need the trigger bar to move forward.
So would dropping it on its muzzle fire the XD? No, because the inertia of the trigger safety blade would then cause it to move forward, thereby locking the trigger.
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The CZ-75B has a metal trigger and a quite heavy trigger bar. Both move rearward together when you pull the trigger. If you carry a round chambered and decocked and you drop it on the hammer, the firing pin block will keep it safe. There are a couple factors here but the inertia of the heavy trigger group is not going to overcome that long hard DA trigger pull.
If a CZ-75B is dropped with the hammer cocked and the manual safety off? The beaver tail does not fully cover the hammer, so the cocked hammer will likely get smacked. Who knows what happens then? Let’s say that it gets dropped onto a concrete ledge so that only the backstrap and beaver tail hit. Then I think it will fire. The trigger return spring is a little stiff and it has to move about 3/4″ before the trigger wall, which will soak up some energy, but I don’t think it is going to be safe.
Wow, you people are some seriously whining sissies. And you wonder why Americans are the laughing stock all over the world. 😀
This all because some shitty online gun shop in Nebraska made a video showing that some P320’s can sometimes discharge when dropped several times at a specific angle with enough force on a hard surface with the same round chambered? LMAO! 🙂
So what if someone out there now takes all the Glocks, takes several of each model and does the same. What if one out of ten fires as well?
Stop the production of all Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep cars right now! It was proven that when crashed at high speed with a frontal impact the cars can catch fire!
Good luck with that, lol….
I hate dumb asses. Some people shouldn’t own guns…or reproduce for that matter.
Don’t be a dumb ass and drop your gun or attempt to clean it while it’s loaded. If you choose to do so, consider it God’s way of thinning the herd.
OH MY GAWD! My SIG is trying to KILL ME! And there are Ruskies under my bed! OH MY GAWD! OHMYGAWD! And the SKY IS FALLING! CLIMATE CHANGE!! MANBEARPIG! Should I trade my 9mm for a .45?
The government should drop his contract and there was nothing wrong with the Beretta’s . They said it would reduce the risk not fix it. We shouldn’t put our boys in danger.
Don’t put our boys in danger cancel the contract
Rick: “Don’t put our boys in danger cancel the contract”
When I was in the Army, we were told “DO NOT DROP YOUR RIFLE/PISTOL”
Have they stopped that?
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