Three bank robbers are in police custody after they attempted to rob Bank of the West in Stockton. The incident left two of three robbers and one hostage dead (who may or may not have been shot by police). The cops say the robbers used at least one “AK-47-style” rifle in their attack and that “multiple civilians” were shot in the ensuing firefight. “Two of the women [hostages] were thrown from the suspects’ car during the chase,” Reuters reports, “one with a minor gunshot wound. Another ‘large exchange of gunfire’ took place after the suspects’ car became disabled, police said. ‘Ultimately, all three suspects were shot (one dead) and the third hostage was found in the vehicle deceased from gunfire,’ police said.” Make the jump for two videos showing just how many police responded and more footage of the bullet-ridden SUV . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxb-D25VjI8
Wait wait wait. This simply cannot have happened. Those are banned in CA. I call BS.
On a serious note, prayers to the innocents affected.
I agree… this must be a misprint and some shoddy reporting on TTAG’s part. Either that or California’s gun laws are malfunctioning again.
Our laws never work unless it has to do with taxing.
Be ironic if it were a F&F refugee returning home.
That thought definitely crossed my mind as well.
I would pay for that.
That said, even if it were to be so, it would NEVER be reported. That information would be quashed…and the hard drives mysteriously purged/refreshed/creashed. Just like all those IRS HDs (and if anyone believes that load of crap, I’ve got a garage full of 1969 ZL1’s (with one mile each) to sell you.
Also – is that gunfire in the video or the sound of a motorcycle (aka chopper) idling? I can’t tell.
Edit – apparently its gunfire…
“During the chase, the suspects continually shot at officers with AK-47 style rifles,”
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-california-hostage-chase-20140717,0,6923927.story
It was the sound of a chopper, but not the motorcycle. It was what rappers are referring to when they say chopper. (AK-47)
Yes it s gunfire. Keith shot the video from about a 1000 feet from where it tragically ended. the documented 19 year old scumturd survived. Thankfully LEO shot the other 2. I fully believe they shot Misty as well.
They were using AKMs and not AK-47s.
Why is it the cops find it so easy to whack law abiding unarmed citizens but not armed criminals?
It isn’t deliberate. They are shooting randomly in the general direction of a preceived threat. It is inevitable that some of those wild shot will hit innocents.
If you think about it, a lot of self defense tactics assume that the guy shooting at you knows what he is doing.instead of throwing rounds downrange in the general direction of the target. Movement works a lot better to throw off your assailent’s aim if he is actually aiming at you and fires in tight pattern. How many times do we about gangbanger drivebys that hit a bunch innocents and miss the intended target even though he might be only 10′ away from the shooter.
Aimed fire is difficult when you are required to hold your gun sideways. Let’s have a little compassion for cultural requirements, here!
I dont think anyone but us will make the differentiation in the version of the AK 🙂
Seen one AK, seen ’em all.
My thoughts and prayers go to the innocent victims caught up in this.
I’m interested in hearing more details about the robbers, and how they obtained these firearms.
ATF storefront, Eric Holder’s FnF or Leland Yee’s arms racket. Take your pick, all are plausible in California, far more than a dealer selling “California Legal” guns to a straw purchaser.
Holy cow … I counted something like 43 police cars driving by the amateur videographer! What location has 43 police cars available to respond to something?
Oh wait … I wrote this comment before watching the entire video. Another 6 police cars and one motocycle cop also arrived on scene. Where do we have 50 police vehicles available to respond to a bank robbery?
no kidding. the rest of Stockton must have been pretty much defenseless.
Correct.
Stockton, CA is a cesspool of the state. It’s one of the reasons I moved, although I miss family still there.
We only saw 50 cop cars from the one angle, how many more arrived from other directions?
The perps were named Jake and Elwood, so the response was pretty tame, I’d say.
The use of unnecessary force in the apprehension of the Blues brothers…has been approved.
No way couldn’t happen. Didn’t you read about how we would be surprised to find out how few officers are available to respond to emergencies? I don’t know if anyone wishes that were true more than someone taken hostage in a car.
I was thinking the same thing…that would have been every cop car for three counties around me (police and sheriffs combined!). And a helicopter…and don’t forget the dreaded MRAP showed up at the end parked by the riddled SUV. Probably a submarine somewhere nearby too…
Late to the party, but I have to comment –
If someone with malicious intent were to see this video they would understand that the only thing required for a highly successful terrorist attack against a soft target anywhere int he U.S. is for two or three of their buddies to rob a bank on the other side of town WITH ASSAULT RIFLES (!) and suck up every single police type personnel as far from the scene of the true target as possible.
Who the HELL was watching the rest of Stockton while these 50 or more cops chased one car and shot a civilian?
It is time to “do something”. For the kids of course!
I blame this on California’s lax gun laws. They need an assault weapons ban and magazine limit. That will solve all the problems!
#sarcasm
I don’t think thats enough to solve the problem, they need registration, 10 day waiting periods, and bullet buttons.
My fiancée lives in stockton….I hate that city. Cannot wait til the wedding to get her up to where I live!
At least the reporting referred to the weapons as AK-47 “STYLE” weapons. IMHO, that’s a step up from referring to every weapon as an AR, an AK, or a Glock. Could responsible journalism and proper vocabulary be on the rise? Meh, probably not.
Moving forward, I would also like to see any perpetrator-driven vehicle shot up in a crime referred to as “The Death Wagon”.
Except one report I saw on TV was they had sub-machine guns. It’s sad.
The po-po don’t need MRAPs or 50 responders. 1 cop with a S&W Model 19 should’ve been plenty. Police militarization must stop.
Ain’t THAT the truth!
That would have been 20 years ago, before all the Federal toyz. Now, I’m surprised they didn’t use a gunship on them. Or the “fully functioning Death Star.”
You are sooooo wrong, they DO need MRAPS and this proves they need more than MRAPS, they need Blackhawk helicopters with miniguns,
Furthermore each squad car should be replaced with a Hummer, all of course having a dedicated man on the back to run the ma deuce
As the man in the video said, “THIS IS THE POLICE FAULT” and so with that deploying the Blackhawk would have ended the fiasco a lot faster.
Oh and when the rare situation is not in progress we can still use the Blackhawks in the sky for radar, traffic violations, cell phone usage, indecent exposure …. you know for those who might be taking a piss in their back yard, heck the limit for fines is only your imagination!
Don’t forget the MQ1’s loaded up with AGM-114’s !!
Pending FAA approval, of course.
Perhaps they could have pulled out a bull horn and started a dialog with the robbers…gained their trust…and talked them into a peaceful surrender. Then held hands as they walked to the county jail?
Better yet…ride along side them and tweet whistles at them while brandishing rubber truncheons!
Hell…just let them go. Or better yet, end this War on Robbery by legalizing bank robbery!
So if the one police officer was the first person killed?
Dave B. I grew up in St Louis, Mo, and in mid 60’s , the police shot up a brick house where a nut job was holed up. There were hundreds of bullet fired at that house, and you could see all of the pock marks on the outside walls. So, you don’t need automatic weapons, to shoot up something. This was done with revolvers, shotguns and a few bolt actions rifles. You just need more cops.
More importantly, how is it that police riddle the getaway vehicle with bullets when there is a hostage inside? Is there a police policy that considers such a person unfortunately expendable?
That’s what stuck out to me as well. The life of the hostage wasn’t factored into the equation, so long as the cops got the guy(s).
“The needs of the many outweight the needs of the one.”
Officer safety > hostage safety, but you knew that already
I was listening on the scanner when this all went down. They knew there was a hostage but when the hostage was thrown from the moving vehicle they thought the hostage were clear. However, even if at some point it was made clear there was a second hostage – the three gunmen were firing wildly from their car and there were hundreds of bystanders – ergo – hundreds of hostages. As someone else said – the needs of the many outweigh the few.
They must be using Russian hostage negatiation tactics.
Like how title has AK-47s but story says “at least one AK-47”. Always turn the drama knob to 11. I bet the CIVILIAN cops returned fire with ugly black rifles too.
There is no such thing as a NON Civilian cop in america. MPs have no authority over US citizens. Only to protect military assets and property, But, hey.. keep misusing that term, I’m sure it will help to bring clarity to this and every other situation.
I read that as putting emphasis on the fact that cops are civilians, not to distinguish (by implication) some cops as non-civilian.
As others said, cops are civilians but entirely exempt from the unconstitutional state laws mandating ridiculous cosmetic changes, magazine capacity limits, and so on. Cops are civilians whom are exempt and criminals are civilians whom ignore the laws. Both are armed as they please, and if the totalitarian statists have their way it means only government employees and criminals will be armed reducing the rest of us from citizen to peasant.
There is a misconception that the police are “civilians” in the sense of a private citizen. They are not. They are agents of the government charged with enforcing laws and keeping the civil peace. These powers are held by all governments. The difference between the US and virtually every other country is that the state does not have an unlimited monopoly on the use of force to protect lives and property.
Anybody who does not understand either concept does not understand the Founding Fathers concept of Constitutionalism and republican government.
tdiinva. You are incorrect. The fact that they’re government employees makes them no less civilians than other government employees carrying out government assignments–even other uniformed government employees, like mailmen or city bus drivers. Or private secutity agents for that matter, whom the government hires in some matters, like guarding FBI offices.
The kind of police force you envision wasn’t invented until the 1800s, long after the founding fathers. In England I think and imported to the United States.
Yes, Sam, I said they were civilians but not like you and me because the government has given them powers to enforce laws and keep the peace that you and I don’t have.
The US Marshal Services dates from the early days of the Republic. If you check out their responsibilities you will find that they were the Chief Law Enforcement officers in US Terrirories and just like police today they were authorized to use force where you or I could not even in 1789.
The creation of regular Police forces is a product of the growth of cities beyond the point where community law enforcement could be effective. The Founding Fathers would have understood this since they built a constitutional structure that anticipated the growth of the nation.
@sam spade: Police are xivikians – period. They are not under the UCMJ. At most, they may be referred to as para-military because they have rank and uniform. They ge special consideration with law because of union support as well as experience being in enforcement. Also note, that those exceptions typically are for active LEO and fully retired LEO. Additoonally, there are other exceptions for things like post office as well as other armed public services (at least in VA). UCMJ subordinance is key.
local and state agencies, as well as their employees (cops) are not exempt from any federal firearms laws, I don’t know where you people get these ideas. They have a little bit of leeway when it comes to concealed carry, but that’s it. Some shthole lib states like California allow cops to purchase weapons and mags exempt from state bans, but the agency owns them and the officer must turn them in when he retires.
Good thing the cops had an MRAP. They could have had an IED in their escape route!
That was a Bearcat. An MRAP would get there tomorrow, leaving a wake of broken pavement and collapsed sewers.
It was a big black scary thing with a thing that goes up and fires hundreds of assault bullets!!!
With banana magazine clips !!
My question is–did it play any kind of role in the stop/capture? If not–then why did the cops “need” it?
Photo op. LOOK! SQUIRREL!
They don’t need those MRAPS any more than common citizens need “weapons of war” on our streets! Yay democrats!
So tell me, SGC–what help was that Bearcat in this situation? Can you answer the question? Or are you limited to just posting snark?
It was of no help that I could see…just like the AR’s and AK’s in my gun safe have been of no help…yet. Will either the MRAP, or my rifles, be of help one day…? Can’t say…
My point was, the famous democrat “you don’t need” phrase rubs me the wrong way, no matter who uses it or for what purpose.
@SGC: I could see your point if there were no distinction between the two circumstance. There it a difference though. The comparison you are making is between individuals exercising their rights and agents of government exercising privileges. It is improper for government to tell individuals that they don’t need something that is clearly within their right to keep and bear. It is proper for citizens to tell agents of government that they don’t need something that they keep and bear under their privileges. The two circumstances are not the same.
I listened to this live on the scanner. It was handled poorly.
They got those rifles from Senator Yee
Ron you beat me to the senator Yee reference.
Isn’t Stockton “chicagolike” ( feel free to steal this adjective )? I would think it’s shoot 1st & ask ? later…
Stockton has one of the highest violent crime rates in the state, with over 4600 violent crimes per 100,000 per year. With a population of about 300,000, that is a lot of violent crimes.
I lived in Manteca (20 minutes from Stockton) and went to UOP in Stockton. Let’s just say that you don’t want to be anywhere in Stockton after dark (or even before) except the UOP campus
so they have known hostages and the po po fill the SUV with bullet holes? dear God…
Maybe they were following Russian police procedural doctrine?
“A year after Sandy Hook, let us recommit ourselves to working towards a safer society for all of us”
Elect Democrat Leland Yee and the gun problem will be no more.
For a city that just went bankrupt that is a lot of responding units, unless lodi police and chp all join in on the chase route.
And the sheriff’s dept. and UOP cops and Sac cops coming from Elk Grove and who knows who else.
Well, heck, thanks for the reminder, I had forgotten that. Bankrupt AND able to send 50 units to pursue one bad guy vehicle. Amazing.
Now you just know all the units just climbed onto that horse; nobody “sent” more than a handful. It was a nice day and that was a pleasant way to spend the rest of their shift milling around and chatting before calling it a day.
Now you know WHY they are bankrupt. Wait til they get the bills for this fiasco, everything from citizen lawsuits to replacement ammo. What do you think the citizens would say if this city did like some others and cut positions, then told the citizens to arm up and protect themselves?
During the commerical lead ins to the 11pm news, Fox 2 and KRON 4 called the guns fully auto assault rifles. ABC 7 said at least one semi automatic assault rifle. And that was definitely a banned 30 rd magazine.
Glad to see our laws are working.
Also, how can Stockton afford so many police while in Ch. 9 bankruptcy?
Junk Bond issues.
fund+fund+issue a bond=success!
learned how to mayor in Simcity 2000
+1 SimCity for the win!
Children from one of the relocation centers, no doubt
Yeh, hi-cap mags, no bullet button, and either a folding stock or no stock. They just released a photo. Def not CA legal.
* one rifle & three handguns according to the local paper.
That’s because the other states in the union have such lax gun laws, you know. /Sarc
They probably bought it in Hammond Indiana. Heck, everything else gets bought there.
I would be interested in whether they are semi AKs or full auto (by design or modified). It’s apparent they aren’t CA legal in the configuration shown.
I would be interested to know if the “rifle” was an “F&F Special.”
I can’t watch the video at work… Would I be correct in assuming that the hostage was killed from the police riddling the SUV with bullets?
Yup. Looked like Swiss Cheese. The MEs brought sponges and buckets for the remains.
They needed the MRAP, they responded appropriately until we know different, no just a pistol defense would not have been adequate, and finally many of you are once again lowering the blog closer to the perceived level of a CPFG (crack pot fringe group). But keep it up, at least its entertaining . . . somewhat.
1. Why do you assume that “the police responded appropriately until we know different”? Just a “benefit of the doubt” kind of thing, or it specifically reserved for cops?
2. What good did the MRAP do? That’s not rhetorical, did an MRAP actually play a role in the capture?
3. The only one suggesting pistols alone would suffice was being sarcastic, I think. Don’t think anybody here would seriously posit that point of view, tho I could be mistaken.
Unfortunately, this blog is still filled with immature CPFG members who obviously lack the appreciation for the members of LE who put their lives on the line to stop these types of hideous maniacs at the flip of a switch, without warning or preparation for the encounter, and at times when they’re not at the peak of readiness. How selfish it is to begrudge the few who answer the call to violent encounters on behalf of a society who can not, or WILL NOT, for very little compensation and with the understanding that their lives might be ended or changed forever in the outcome. What a pathetic group it is in deed not to support those who risk everything they have and their family hopes to have on a daily basis, just so some stupid pig in an armchair can second guess them, belittle them, judge their activities before knowing what they were, then get on a blog and spew garbage about them. If any of you had any stones whatsoever you would STFU.
Hey, at least they got to break out all of their toys…
I certainly feel for the family of the hostages, and they probably aren’t even going to be able to to win a suit against the police, not that Stockton apparently has any money from what other commenters are saying.
Am I wrong to assume that in a hostage situation the police must restrain from firing, even when fired upon, unless they have a clear shot?
In a perfect world!
I’d agree with that, in a perfect world. Trouble is, we don’t live in one.
By this idea, if I take a hostage…then I’m bulletproof. I can shoot anyone and everyone else around me at random and with impunity as long as I don’t give the police a clear shot at me.
In 2001, if you had known UA175 was inbound to the WTC…would you have shot it down? Or let it hit the building?
In a perfect world, everyone would be saved. In our world, that just isn’t the case.
I noticed starting during the Dorner and Boston incidents that cops never “pull security”, there is never anyone watching flank and rear in shooter situations.
One of these days, someone is going to take out a shitload of cops by simply having an accomplice open fire on their rear.
I’ve noticed that elsewhere when I’ve had the opportunity to watch SWAT deploy. I think it says a lot that this scenario has never happened, given how easy it would be. Could we call that getting counter-SWATed? Call in something that would trigger a SWAT response, then fire from the flank/rear of their position.
Seems like crazies almost always come one at a time. The CiCi’s ambush comes to mind but their tactics were not what we’re describing.
Anyone else notice that suddenly the day after import os AKs is banned by the president those were the rifle of choice for this? My skeptical side says these were probably ARs but AK xan make the president go “See I was right!”
The AK ban was to punish the Russians not implement gun control. The fact that American gun owners may be hurt is just a postive externality.
Two birds one stone. Well played Mr. Obama, well played indeed. I bet him and Uncle Joe were high fiving each other over that one.
Never let an opportunity go to waste!
Considering how many bullet holes I can see, I wonder how many missed.
I had the same thought. With the typical hit to miss ration being something like 20% hits and 80% misses, I wonder how much of the neighborhood got shot up? I also wonder how many dead people will be discovered in their homes along the route?
What caliber did they shoot that SUV up with? Looks like half-inch diameter holes, were they all shooting 45-acp?
Honestly this sounds kind of cold… but the lesson any prospective bank robber learned today was loud and clear. Hostage guaranteed these guys exactly nothing. 2 of the 3 criminals died and 1 is in critical condition.
Now I don’t know if this was intentional on behalf of the police, but it reminds of an anecdote of a situation played out in Germany a decade or two ago. Bank robbers had been robbing banks and taking hostages to secure their escape, until one day, the German equivalent of SWAT decide enough was enough and stormed a bank where a robbery/ hostage situation was in process and killed everyone. Germany no longer has the problem it used to have with armed bank robbery. I wonder why that is?
These goons learned the hard way that using people as human shields got them absolutely nothing. I somewhat morbidly wish it had been sooner, like right when they walked out of the bank or something. I don’t mean the police should go in with the explicit goal of shooting indiscriminately, but definitely show them that a human shield isnt going to buy them anything. This is a case where the criminals are exactly 100% responsible for the death of the hostage, even if they find it was police bullets that killed them.
Saw a movie a couple of years ago where the cops shot the hostage, in the leg, I think. This was to keep the bad guys from using her as a hostage. Not much of a hostage if you have to drag the person around to make your get a way. Hard way to go, but it worked, and the hostage survived.
Excellent point and what I meant by the “Star Trek Wrath of Khan” quote above. Why does HAMAS use human shields? Because western rules of engagement, now enshrined in international law, make it difficult to engage them when the place rocket launchers in very public venues because of the fear of collateral damage. In the end it puts far more lives at risk than simply bombing the apartment complex in the first place when they place rocket launchers in the center courtyard.
This is a case where the criminals are exactly 100% responsible for the death of the hostage, even if they find it was police bullets that killed them.
Government disarming citizens and a bank that requires its customer’s and employees to be disarmed share in culpability. Disarming someone ethically and morally obligates a share of responsibility for the reasonable safety of that someone. Employees working with large sums of money and customers carrying sums of money/in the establishment with large sums of money ought not be deprived their right to bear arms.
IDK the details as of yet but if law enforcement touched off the firefights when there was a reasonable alternative then they helped kill a woman over money. Again, I don’t know the details so…
This is a situation where the public’s bearing of long arms could’ve not only acted as deterrent but also might have helped stop the situation earlier. The People have the real potential to out-gun criminals; ordinary and agents of government. The People have the right to keep and bear arms.
Bank robbers rob banks in states where the right to carry remains unabridged. Armed customers might have indeed stopped the robbery but they could of also shot bystanders as well. In any chaotic situation where bulets are flying willy nilly a persom may become an unintended casualty.
I didn’t claim that innocent bystanders or hostages couldn’t be unintentionally shot. You are adding things that aren’t in my comment.
Where government doesn’t disarm the People, government doesn’t share in that part of culpability for such a situation. Where banks don’t disarm employees and customers, that bank doesn’t share in that part of culpability for such a situation. My comment was clear and simple; making no added claims beyond what it states in plain language.
Oh look…a story on police stopping armed robbers turns into yet another cop bash-fest.
What a surprise.
Oh look…a story on police from at least four jurisdictions with supporting air and armor executing armed robbers and their hostage turns into yet another cop bash-fest.
FIFY, Sparky.
All available information points to the robbers being armed and shooting at police at the time they were shot. We can safely put aside the “execution” label at this point.
Keyboard commandos and arm chair internet quarterbacks have to have sometime to type about, don’t they? Based upon the true and complete reporting of the main stream media, and the riveting commentary of amateur videographers…we have plenty of solid information to base our opinions on here. And after all, our opinions have to be much more accurate than the perceptions of the people who actually lived through the incident don’t they? Surely any one of us could have formulated a much better response to that incident in progress at the time it was happening. We could have captured those dastardly miscreants single handed, rescued the hostages, and made it home in time for tea. C’mon, it’s fun to hate on pigs…join in!
If they would have just let the birds. Keep track of where they were going and fall back behind a ways until they feel they got away, they probably would have released her ,because it’s easier to blend in without a scared lady that doesn’t fit in with you and your group of buddies, I’m sure they didn’t want to keep her any longer then they felt they needed to,but turns out with ruthless cops like they encountered,the hostage don’t do much but slow them down on their getaway most likely, would have been the same or better off without her and the other 2 probably, because the cops shot her anyways, most not all but most cops don’t care who the stranger is they are just itching to shoot someone.especially if they haven’t popped their cherry yet…
Welcome to Stockton California, where watching police and gang bangers shoot at each other is an everyday occurrence!
True. Today they are reported as being Nortenos.
I’m sorry that all the hostages didn’t make it home safely.
Aye.
Judging by the sound in the second video (you have to open it in a new window) this is what I think happened. The robbers and the last hostage were in the car. Somehow the car was stopped, the back wheel was probably shot out. Then, the 30+ police officers surrounding it pumped the car full of bullets, killing the 3rd hostage and the last of the bank robbers.
Can’t see any other way for that to go down.
An article about armed robbers who took hostages and shot at police garnered just about zero comments expressing outrage at the criminals and their actions and instead only generated criticisms of the police or conspiracy theories about fast and furious.
Lesson learned. Always go to your bank armed.
Be at all times armed; always.
These idiots who blame the police for criminals’ actions baffles me.
So, sub-standard magazine capacity and bullet buttons didn’t help?
You guys gotta give the cops credit. ca cops are improving. A year or so ago they were riddling vehicles with bullets and it was only newspaper delivery women. Now when they are shooting at innocent people in vehicles there is a bad guy behind the innocent victim.
This one really defies the statistics. It reinforces the idea that regardless of what usually happens, ultimately the dangerous situation you find yourself in is unique and requires of you a unique response.
Generally speaking, bank robberies are usually injury-free. The more robbers there are working together, and the more deadly their weapons (if any), the more organized they’re likely to be; in it strictly and efficiently for the money and not to hurt anyone. Moreover, if any injuries/fatalities do occur, it’s most likely to be the robbers themselves injured/killed and to take place away from the bank during the getaway.
This one is definitely an extreme exception and one to keep in mind if you ever find yourself, armed, in the midst of an armed bank robbery.
These guys went out shooting. News today says that there are 14 police cars that were shot up. Hundreds of rounds fired. No one has said yet how many houses. Or who shot them.
Are the robbers illegal alien gangsters that Obummer lets into the country. Is that stupid fool responsible for the murder and robbery here tooo
Well I knew one of them in middle school he seemed to be from .u.s..America originally and spoke with no accent. I used to joke around quite a bit with the guy in 3rd period language arts ,he was pretty funny , ran into him years later at a mutual friends house, by then he was pretty much into thuggin fang banging whatever. I talked to him laughed about some of the same old inside jokes from before, then a year or two later I heard it was him from that friend , looked it up and sure enough it was Alex, crazy to find out it’s someone you actually sat next to for a year, and kind of knew ,or thought I did.. I know he wasn’t a great person by any means ,obviously , but I’m pretty sure he didn’t expect or want that lady to die like that, those cops didn’t handle it the way anyone would think it would be handled or should have been handled, I don’t know the other two guys or 3 I guess there was a driver too, but, just because someone is Mexican doesn’t automatically make them illegals..
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