“Four of the nine people killed in a melee between rival biker gangs outside a Texas restaurant were struck by the same caliber of rifle fired by Waco police, according to evidence obtained by The Associated Press that provides the most insight yet into whether authorities were responsible for any of the deaths and injuries.” Ya think? “Hours of audio and footage and hundreds of documents including ballistics reports show that four of the dead and at least one of the wounded were struck with bullets from .223-caliber rifles — the only type of weapon fired by police that day. The ballistics reports show that the rest of the people killed were shot by . . .
a variety of other guns.
TTAG has been calling the Waco shooting a coverup since day one. The fact that more than 100 bikers were imprisoned immediately after the shooting, all on $1m bail, all sequestered from the press. was the first clue. The AP report confirms our suspicion that the police shot at bikers from their established perimeter.
Serious questions remain about the Twin Peak massacre. Specifically, who started the conflict? From what distance were police rounds fired (12 in all according to Waco Police Chief Brent Stroman)? Most importantly, where are the full videos of the event? The only video released was carefully selected to show the police in the best possible light, and the bikers in the worst. Like this:
Police dashboard video shows a tight group gathered in front of the Twin Peaks patio. A biker can be seen striking others with a chain. Twenty seconds later, the biker is shot in the leg and the hip, staining the grass with blood. One biker shoots while running backward away from the parking lot while another fires from the patio. The group quickly disperses, with many taking cover behind cars and trucks.
Department of Public Safety video shows one of the men who was killed, Jesus Delgado Rodriguez, tackling another biker brandishing a gun. The two wrestle on the ground until another biker approaches and appears to stomp on Rodriguez’s head. The biker with the gun then shoots Rodriguez in the head and walks away.
In separate police video of the aftermath, several dead bikers are seen slumped on the ground, blood streaming from their wounds. Hats, sunglasses, knives, guns, cigarettes, and a hammer litter the pavement, while rock music can be heard playing loudly in the background.
Edited video. Rifle-shot bikers. Unattended wounded. Denied due process. A coroner’s report that somehow failed to mention the caliber of the bullets that killed the bikers. A cop leading the Grand Jury. This thing smells to high heaven. Let’s hope the judicial system “allows” the truth to come out. Watch this space. [h/t JWT]
How many of the 20 wounded were shot by the thugs in blue?
How many of the thugs on bikes were shooting at the cops that resulted in them getting shot in return?
I don’t know, the cops won’t tell us. They tape off the scene, then the evidence is what they say it is. Then they delay the ballistic report for months, obscure the procedure, charge everyone in the club with a capital felony so they can get out on bail easily, then the police chief’s buddy gets him his gag order to buy him time for his cover up.
If a bunch of vicious criminal biker drug-dealing gangsters got in a turf war, and you arrive as quickly as possible and professionally ended the loss of life, then you don’t need all of these sketch provisions. Something is dirty here, it smells, and it isn’t the bikers.
They are hiding something it appears.
i would wager both sides (bikers and cops) have/want to hide some “things”
Are the other calber wounds, I wonder, consistent with shots from within the group of bikers, or from above? Or with weapons found at the scene or on the arrestees?
Still sounds like quite a bit of information is missing.
So four shot by police that can’t be denied due to caliber in question…got it.
I think that if the police only fired 5.56, and if only 4/9 of the dead had 5.56 holes in them, that fact would have been made public months ago.
Also, while 9 were *killed*, weren’t there something like 27 people *shot*? So what about the other 15?
Sorry, not ’15’. What about the other 23?
Try 18
How many were legally carrying guns? How many of those can justifiably claim to be defending themselves and others from attack? By claiming that all the bikers were engaged in a criminal activity (meeting for lunch is a criminal activity if you’re wearing colors, don’t you know), the Waco cops and prosecutor threw presumed innocence out the window. This is 3rd world country style justice. This makes justice in Texas look like a circus side-show. This will not end well.
If Twin Peaks is a 51% establishment, nobody there that was carrying “legally” would actually be carrying legally.
I don’t know if Twin Peaks falls into that category.
Twin Peaks is not a 51% establishment, at least not the one here in Corpus Christi. Expect the chain would be consistent.
And the girls are not 51% clothed. But then, I go there for the rugged wood furniture. 🙂
“I go there for the rugged wood furniture”
Heh heh, you said wood!
Only about 10 of those arrested had a criminal record. Quite a few had permits. Waco PD was counting vest chains and wallet chains, and a couple of long guns found in trucks in the parking lot, as “weapons” to jack up the numbers. Lots of pocket knives too. Damn near every biker out there has their wallet on a chain and a knife in their pocket. And if your OFWG belly has grown a bit big for your vest, you need extender chains. But hey, gotta justify the slaughter.
Only about 1/3 of those arrested were members of the Bandidos or Cossacks, the 1%er “outlaw” clubs involved in the shootout. Most were members of mom and pop and veterans clubs and associations, with no affiliation to the 1%ers. They just happened to be there for the meeting when the SHTF.
For the record, if you are part of a motorcycle organization, including Bikers for Jesus, you are considered an outlaw by the state of California. If you attend a Confederation of Clubs meeting, the ATF considers you part of a criminal conspiracy. I’d say that’s how I ended up on the terrorist watch list, but I was on it long before I was riding with a group. But then, the gubmint considers Iraq and Afghanistan vets to be potential domestic terrorists.
Who cares?
If these guys had been Bloods, Crips, Gangster Disciples, MS13, Latin Kings etc we not only wouldn’t care much but probably be cheering on the cops.
Good riddance I say.
The problem is a large number of the people illegally detained without due process and given insane bail amounts had nothing to do with either of the outlaw gangs. Some people were just there for an event, some allege they were not involved with this group at all.
How would you feel if you went to get a bite to eat in the hood, happened to be wearing red, this goes down between the bloods and krips and they throw you in jail like you killed someone just because you wore red? This is America, we don’t throw bullshit charges at the innocent and let them rot in jail for months.
That was supposed to read, “This is America, were the government and its minions throw bullshit charges at the innocent and let them rot in jail for years both domestically and abroad on a regular basis.”
Always someone out there with a hard-on for state-sanctioned murder with no due process.
Always someone out there who was not a witness of the event, yet thinks they have the full story and/or disregards any other point of view presented to them.
The cover-up is well known, what happened is not.
Sorry, m8. Hard to trust police when unpublished info would either damn or exonerate them. When they refuse to make it public, it’s pretty reasonable to assume it isn’t in their best interest.
Who are the “we” you are saying wouldn’t care? The vast majority of the people who frequent this website would care no matter what the race.
Only two scenarios that make sense in this whole situation, one it is a straight up cover up and the police shot innocent people. Or two, one of the people killed in all of this was an Undercover officer or informant who was part of an active investigation into one of these groups.
I could see them playing cover up if a UC was involved in the shooting or killed for sure. It’s the only alternative scenario that makes sense.
Scenario #2 is probably more likely. If you read everything the cops have put out, and look at what has come out from the biker community, you can find the answers. Waco PD was lying from the start. Everyone in the biker world knew that the fight started in the parking lot days before the cops changed their story from the original claim that it started in the bathroom. There was also an ATF undercover operaton. The ATF, driven primarily by one supervisor, has a major hard on for biker clubs, and has pulled all kinds of illegal stunts to bring them down, with very little success. And the ATF was in that parking lot in force. Draw your own conclusions.
How many of the police were carrying 9mm, .40 S&W or .45 ACP handguns? It’s reasonable to think that 100% of them had sidearms in addition to whatever rifles were on the scene. Why should we believe that no police handguns were fired? Most deaths in police shootings are from handgun fire.
Where is #wacolivesmatter when we really need it?
What did you expect, Ralphie? White people lap up the lies spewed by the police unions, so nobody blinks an eye when the cops shoot up a restaurant and massacre a bunch of people.
Also, war on cops (lies)!
Care to present your full video evidence of this event to back up your assertions?
Did you even read the article? And if you watch the one video that was reluctantly released by the cops (by court order), the bikers were fighting with each other before they were felled by a fusillade of police rifle fire.
What could be the motivation of the cops to hide the remainder of video evidence, as well as locking up two hundred people on absurd bonds. That is obviously something that you don’t bother considering. 🙂
Uh, Blainey, WTF are you talking about?
Oh, never mind. It’s probably not worth knowing.
You wonder why there is no hashtag. The reason is because white people just believe whatever lies the cops tell them about their victims deserving to be murdered.
There’s a reason that polls indicate the vast majority of white people trust the police, despite all the evidence that they are violent, out of control thugs.
Blaine, not everything you read on the interweb is true. Just thought you should know that.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/175088/gallup-review-black-white-attitudes-toward-police.aspx
So, how many were shot by police-type 9mm or .40 cal. rounds??? The ballistics lab should have all of the guns. Which ones fired these killing shots?
What the heck is a “police-type 9mm or .40”?
Last time I checked these were the most popular “non-police” handgun round as well…
Or “police type” handguns chambered in 9MM Parabellum or .40S&W? These are the IDENTICAL models that are owned by us “civilians”, i.e. Glock, Smith and Wesson M&P, Springfield XD/XDm, SIG 226, etcetera. Many of the handguns in my safe are the identical models issued or approved for duty use by hundreds of city, county, state and federal law enforcement agencies.
Like another commenter mentioned, the Waco PD collected numerous handguns and longarms (unfired) from persons present at that Twin Peaks, and they’ve had ample time to fire test rounds from them to compare against bullets recovered from the dead and wounded to find out which guns fired which bullets that struck which individuals. Why is this information being kept sequestered?
don’t forget that what type of ammo used by police is on record. so there is that.
What have they ACTUALLY done to make such a shameless “coverup” worth it? It’s just way too obvious, isnt it?
Hope one day those thugs get the address wrong on a on-knock and come to my place. Pelvis, pelvis, pelvis, until I get to my 223.
Spoken like someone who has never actually dealt with cops.
Unlike the vast majority of TTAG readers, I have actually been arraigned on bogus gun charges, spent a night in jail, and was charged with a felony.
And I still don’t hate cops.
I don’t hate cops either. I’m fully aware how important they are to the society. But they need to be reined in. They need to be afraid. They need to be unwilling to act. They need to think twice before doing anything. No one’s begging them and plenty of other people need that wage to feed their family. They are way overboard on too many cases. Those are the people who can destroy your life with a flip of a mental switch. You sure they should be welcomed and tolerated? Hell no. They should be under constant pressure and threat to be a police service that actually serves. Don’t like the job? Quit it. Tax money will find another receiver in 10 minutes.
As for dealing with cops, several traffic stops aside, once a cop knocked and asked if I’ve seen the guy on the warrant. I was ready to be executed on spot if he found out that I home carry. No, i was real polite and it ended like HOW IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE. We both got to bed alive that night.
I hate cops. I also hate ticks, mosquitoes, and leeches. A parasite is a parasite, no matter if it is wearing costume jewelry.
At least ticks and leeches don’t suck your blood then tell you it is for your own good and the good of “society”.
Headline should read “Police killed minimum of four at Waco”
That does not mean that they didn’t kill all twelve and the word minimum leaves that clear. The investigation needs to be taken over by the FBI because of what is clearly a cover up by locals. Also, even if the bikers shot back, who could blame them, just because some of the thugs present wore uniforms doesn’t mean they weren’t a gang too.
This really is piss-poor information management. The *whole point* is to detail evidence, explain what happened, and “why”, to restore the skeptical public’s faith in their law enforcement.
With 6 months to ‘get it right’, all this release did was highlight deliberate obfuscation and generate new questions.
What is it about Waco? The air? The water? A Hellmouth under the local high school? Seriously, any time in the future I find myself having to travel in that direction I’ll go the long way to avoid that place.
No, charge straight in and see what the civilized world has been hiding from you LOL
Civilised world in Texas?
Yes, Coastal Elitist, the I35 corridor is pretty damn civilized, these days. So much so, your Coastal Elitist buddies feel comfortable moving in and demanding familiar changes in Austin & Dallas. Waco is where Baylor University has been generating its statist/liberal bile & lawyers for over 150 years, which is primarily the reason so much bullshittery occurs there.
CA is the cancer that keeps on giving. I keep telling people that CA is the place to defeat gun control. If you break it here, you’ve won. But folks keep saying to run from CA. Guess what? CA will chase you into the atlantic and back to the old country.
I only think of Texas as uncivilised cause of some of the family gatherings I’ve had there. Moms side of the family sent a lot of folks to Texas and Oklahoma.
Don’t get me started on the weather in Oklahoma.
If you ever do head towards Waco, whether you go around or not, I recommend stoping by West, Texas (West *comma* Texas; the city, not the direction.)
There is some awesome Czech food in West. Sausage, cheeses, fresh sweet bread; it’ll make you run home and slap your momma.
That, and fertilizer explosions.
That was just to keep to all the non-believers aways…
Don’t forget about the slivovitz. And if you know the right kind of people, get the real stuff…. not the swill they sell to tourists.
Come to think of it, this is the time of year for kolache too. Mmm…..
Yeah, you have to go into town for the good stuff.
The stuff right off 35 is for the noobs.
Dang it, quit talking about the food! I lived in a few places in Texas, and I’m missing the Q, kolaches, and German food in New Braunfels. Gonna force me to take a road trip.
“What is it about Waco? The air? The water? A Hellmouth under the local high school?”
As a TCU fan, I have to say that the hellmouth is more likely under the university in that town.
And a big +1,000,000 for the comments about the food in West!
Same old story. “We looked into it and we didn’t do anything wrong.”
I have local knowledge of “The Great Twin Peaks Biker Massacre” as It has come to be called in these parts.
In a previous post, I detailed the injuries sustained by those who made it to the hospital. My source is a lunch time conversation I had with a surgeon who was rounding at the hospital at the time. In discussion with the ER docs and looking at the x-ray films, he decided no one from this event was coming to the OR to have their chest cracked. Everybody there was shot by low velocity pistol rounds, and some made it to the OR.
The ninth fatality who had been transported died from a transected femoral artery. He had sustained other GSW’s which were not immediately fatal.
The local consensus is that the police stopped a wholesale biker melee in its tracks. The indictments of everybody and the hig bails were designed to throw a huge monkey wrench into the biker organizations. Even now the County is pleading for money to pay for it all.
By the way, the M4 rifles were suppressed, and they do practice. Texas LEO’s are not fooling around.
There is no cover up. A bunch of bad ass biker guys, ( think ISIS without the religion) got their asses handed to them buy the Law.
Yes, its the water.
For all the coverage this site has done on this event, they seem to have neglected to post the most interesting part of the story – that’s the video of the shoot out.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/10/29/waco-biker-shooting-surveillance-video-lavandera-pkg.cnn
The video runs contrary to the cover up narrative. It looks like a biker melee that worked out really bad for the gangs.
“The indictments of everybody and the hig bails were designed to throw a huge monkey wrench into the biker organizations. Even now the County is pleading for money to pay for it all.”
Thanks for the comments. I’m trying to wrap my head around that statement though. How would indicting people not committing a crime and then setting unreasonable bail for them disrupt a criminal enterprise in which they had no part in?
The county is pleading for money to prosecute, but will be pleading for money for many years to defend against the many suits filed against it, as well as the settlements that may result from them.
I think this revelation bodes well for the police. I can well imagine 4 criminal shooters killing 5 other people and getting shot by the police in turn. Six shot by police and three by others would have been a bit harder to explain.
THIS is why I come to TTAG.
So, a bunch of civilians started a gun fight and police shot some of them? this is no surprise.
Everything OTHER thing the cops did was off the reservation. This is the normal part.
The only gang there was the police, the rest were motorcycle clubs.
Motorcycle clubs are not gangs, despite what police and the media will have you believe.
yeah, I understand the concern here, about cops being less than forthcoming on the investigation.
I am having a hard time understanding the bottomline, and outrage, tho. A bunch of bikers, who blatantly violated the 3S rule. Did they NOT think a fight might break out.
Cops boolits or biker thugs boolits, dead is dead.
Next outrage, please.
SJW’s gotta SJW. 🙂
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