“Authorities say a man suspected of beheading a woman at a food processing plant in suburban Oklahoma City had been fired.” That’s not a lede you read every day. And we think news9.com is trying to communicate the fact that the suspect who hacked a woman’s head off at Vaughan Foods in suburban Moore is an ex-employee at the facility. Moore Police Sgt. Jeremy “Lewis said the man entered the plant and stabbed 54-year-old Colleen Hufford, severing her head. Lewis said the man then started to stab 43-year-old Traci Johnson” . . .
“That’s when “Vaughan Foods chief operating officer and reserve county officer Mark Vaughan stopped the assault by shooting the suspect.” Just to be clear, a murderous attack by a wack-o was stopped by a good guy with a gun.” That popping noise in the distance is the sound of heads exploding at Mother Jones.
The suspect – who koco.com reports as 30-year-old Alton Nolan, who’d recently converted to Islam. Nolan had been trying to convert fellow workers as well. The second stabbing victim is reportedly in stable condition. The koco.com report makes no mention of the decapitation.
More on the attacker as details emerge. Click here for the police press conference.
Very glad the RO was there to stop the bloodshed, but you can bet that the media will applaud the fact that a trained firearms expert, a police officer, the only people in our society to be trusted with firearms, was there. The thought that a non-law-enforcement civilian would have done the same thing doesn’t fit their PR narrative.
Well done Mr Vaughan.
Well done? His lack of marksmanship is now going to cost the taxpayers of Oklahoma probably 50 thou a year for however many years he’s in the slammer.
OK doesn’t have the death penalty? I say if he converted to Islam, he should be executed as such. MEMO: Any correctional officers in OK in possession of a big a** sword?
And how many years (at 50 thou a year) are the taxpayers on the hook for until they get around to executing him?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Clayton_Lockett
What does this guy and the ISIS executioner have in common? They were both converted (perverted). I have not seen any Afghan refugees behaving like this. I suspect that he was improperly taught since otherwise we would be seeing countless middle eastern spree killers all over the place in the US.
Blaming all Muslims for the crimes of these converts is like blaming all Christians for the crusades.
Actually, the crusades were begun as a reaction to the Islamic takeover of the Holy Land. A bloody, murderous and incompetent reaction to be sure, but a reaction none the less.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
“His lack of marksmanship”
Stop it.
He stopped an attack on an innocent person. I don’t care how many “thou” it will subsequently cost…THAT is what this is about. He did the job.
Stop diluting a heroic act with fantastical nonsense that does not apply to anything…and stop trying to dilute people’s thinking (and subsequent OODA Loop) with stuff they don’t need to think about if they ever are in a DGU. No one should be thinking about “cost of incarceration” at the time they might have to pull the trigger.
Until you can show, through actual REAL EXPERIENCE, that you hit exactly what you aim at 100% in a real honest-to-God life and death gunfight…AND that your precious terminal ballistics perform 100% of the time, how about you stop promulgating some fantasy world BS.
Exactly….Bad guy stopped… If the RO had fired 40 shots folks would be complaining about police overkill.
As a cop….which he is…he is required to cease fire when the threat stops. It is not live or die…its stop the threat.
I agree… 100%
JR in NC:
Exactly!
+1.
Well said, sir.
…well, it’s true, I’ve never been in an actual gunfight per se, but I AM a firearms instructor at “a New Mexico” police organization, and I’ve blogged about using lethal force, so, close enough, right?
-David “The Rabbi” Kenik
He isn’t just an auxiliary deputy, he is also a trained member of their tactical response team.
A 12 gauge shotgun with buck and ball may have been better for defense at the distance the COO was likely shooting from.
Reflecting on the long-term costs of Mr. Vaughn’s failure to terminate the threat, I’m going to the range this afternoon to get some tactical pistol practice in. I never want to be in the situation of having to do what Mr. Vaughn did, but if so, I want it to be incisive.
The threat was not stopped. The threat was simply converted into a ward of the state, which is to say, our support, probably forever.
And we’ll have to pay for all his halal perks as well.
Be thankful for the cops that are not judge jury and executioner especially in this age of identity theft which could mean that a pedophile or other criminal could claim your identity and it would be nice if the cop does not execute you before they figure out that real criminal is using your identity.
RO shot the jihadi as he was attempting kill # 2, not because he was “an alleged jihadi”.
Every once in a while, I see a truly infuriating comment like this! “Lack of marksmanship?????” First, all I hear these days is “police abuse,” and then another officer-involved shooting happens and I hear these kinds of statements. Which is it? Should he have been a judge, jury, and executioner or do the right thing? Everyone on here (myself included) is typically very vocal about upholding the constitution. I don’t believe in just picking and choosing certain portions, such as the 2nd amendment, but throwing out the other portions (you know, like Article III). This is what separates the “good guys” and the “bad guys.” Some of us do actually believe in law.
These are the comments the gun grabbers love! You know, “It will be the land of vigilante’s if we don’t restrict x, y, and z . . .” We need to live by the law and preserve justice, not abuse it.
As someone who has been through an officer-involved shooting myself, ballistics can and will do funny things. Mine involved a woman on a domestic that ambushed my cover unit and me. I fired three rounds, and my partner fired one. She was hit with three shots center mass and once in the shoulder. After receiving four 230-grain Speer Gold Dot hits, none reached her vitals, she still survived, and stood trial. She now has a first eligible parole hearing date of 2053.
I’m amazed how people really like to thing of themselves as being these great shots that will save the world and can sit back and talk about how much better they would have done the job. It was one thing to hear all the buzzwords back in my 2003 academy: “tunnel vision,” “auditory exclusion,” “loss of fine motor skills,” “180+ heart rate,” etc. It’s another to actually experience “Condition Black” in real life, not a video game sitting on the couch! My shooting occurred after having been a handgun/shotgun/rifle instructor for over three years. These are just so absurdly arrogant and infuriating statements!
As for Officer Vaughan, you sir are a hero and today did the right thing! Just like the hero psychologist at Mercy Hospital, you went toward the killer instead of running like everyone else. You went to work prepared and put your life on the line today stopping what could have been a large massacre! You did the right thing and get a huge salute from me tonight!
“I’m amazed how people really like to thing of themselves as being these great shots that will save the world and can sit back and talk about how much better they would have done the job. It was one thing to hear all the buzzwords back in my 2003 academy: “tunnel vision,” “auditory exclusion,” “loss of fine motor skills,” “180+ heart rate,” etc. It’s another to actually experience “Condition Black” in real life, not a video game sitting on the couch! My shooting occurred after having been a handgun/shotgun/rifle instructor for over three years. These are just so absurdly arrogant and infuriating statements!”
+1 and Amen! I’ve never heard anyone in harms way spew that kind of ignorance.
Unfortunately, I think he purposely missed. The fact that he’s involved with law enforcement on any level most likely caused him to reconsider killing him. Had that been a normal everyday person shooting, this guy wouldn’t be wasting our tax dollars. I think Mr. Vaughan had to consider he would be accused of purposely killing him considering his skills with a gun. Too bad really…
When is it time to realize that “multiculturalism” is a liability and not an asset? Before or after we’re totally overrun with jihadist an drug cartel riffraff?
You ever hear of the First Amendment?
Hmm, I vaguely remember. Why don’t you expand on your thought? It seems a little unclear what you’re saying…
The Constitution is not a suicide pact.
That’s what people who go around chanting “what about the First Amendment” in response to Islamic aggression are effectively saying: “I’ll follow my Constitution into servitude for my Muslim masters!”
Islam is not compatible with western secular democracy. Period. Full stop. It doesn’t matter whether we’re talking in the US, Canada, western Europe.
Anyone who claims it is can be only one of three things:
1. A Muslim who is lying (which Muslims are allowed to do in furtherance of spreading Islamic domination)
2. Stupid, much as anti-gun people who think that a gun did nothing useful in this situation.
3. Ignorant of what Islam really is and what Islam really calls the faithful to do.
Dyspeptic is correct on this one. Islam is a political philosophy conveniently couched in a religion that is antithetical to Western Civilization, or any other civilization past the 13th century. We should call it what it is and deal with it accordingly.
I am not sure what everyone is suggesting then. Are you saying we should violate the constitution by legislating against a religion?
I don’t care if someone starts a religion that requires them to kill 1 person a day for the rest of their life. You can’t legislate against the religion, you use the existing laws to handle it (conspiracy to commit murder,etc).
Same with Islam. Even if it has certain things built in that are incompatible with our laws, there are many Muslims that choose to follow our laws. It is when they don’t that we can nail them for it. We have laws that apply no matter your religion. You can’t go persecuting people just because of some things contained in the book they follow.
@dyspeptic
Actually, you are wrong. It is much more than that. Sharia __IS__ the supreme law to them and overrides the Constitition.
http://blog.understandingthethreat.com/2014/06/17/sharia-real-law-language-enemies/
Islam is a political philosophy posing as a religion to get around the niceties of Western (and US) legalities.
When that cover threatens to get blown, it poses as a race.
Translation of most of the above comments: “The constitution isn’t important when the people being targeted aren’t like me. Besides, if it saves a life…”
Hmm, that latter concept sounds familiar…
I believe he just exercised it.
Misnomer said what I would say with respect to freedom of worship. I refuse to outlaw Islam or Satanism or any other faith, regardless of how objectionable it may seem to me. In doing so, you apply subjective criteria — then what? Keith Ellison becomes President and uses the same principle to outlaw Judaism and Christianity? That’s the door you open if you proscribe an entire faith system. No. But the laws of the land still apply. Beheading, child sacrifice and polygamy are against the law (for now), so Muslims, Mormons, Satanists, and everyone else need to practice within the laws of the US and state codes. Islam in some ways stands in contradiction to liberal democracy, but there are also plenty of American Muslims who have figured out a way to submit to both their nationality and their faith.
Mormons DO practice marriage within the bounds of the law, and have done for well over 100 years. As a matter of fact, the LDS faith constantly preaches conformance with the laws of the land. The people who still practice polygamy have about as much to do with actual Mormonism as my Muslim neighbor has to do with the medievalites in ISIS.
They get a bad rap, but you’ll be hard pressed to find a religion that is simultaneously as tolerant and principled as the Mormons. (Maybe nitpicking, but I think it needed to be said.)
Pretty much you’re right on, Rokurota. The laws of the land need to be religiously neutral, and apply equally to everyone. Privileging or persecuting any particular religion only opens the door to special rules for special people and gives things like Sharia law a wedge to use against everyone else’s freedom of choice and conscience.
Gee, been a while since we last pissed on Constitution, let’s find another excuse to do some more of that!
So. You want to make this any all-white/ all-Christian country?
Is that your way of saying you don’t understand what multiculturalism means?
“Multiculturalism” allows for all of our different Christian churches that are quite distinct. It supports the existence of all the international restaurants in the USA. It supports all of the different types of chili enjoyed in the USA. It allows that while you speak English it is a language that has many “foreign” words within. The European immigrants of which you are a descendent suffered huge persecution and violence from the other Europeans that arrived just before.
This man sounds crazy! If you don’t want to go there, then the Gun Grabbers have won! All of these incidents Newtown etc were the actions of mentally ill people. Not guns!
Read your history. One reason the Islamic nations question our motives is because the Crusades were a bloody invasion of the East by Christians in the name of Christianity.
Even still people seem to excuse white American terrorists and be afraid of brown Middle Eastern terrorists. Extremists are extremists.
Time to open your mind. Then we can be prepared and not paranoid.
And what prompted the Crusades again? it wasn’t violent expansion of an Islamic caliphate, was it?
People who keep pointing a quavering finger at the Crusades and saying “It was the European’s fault!” are really the ones who frost me.
Instead, let’s turn our gaze a bit eastward from Arabia, and look to how the Muslims behaved in the the Indian sub-continent. No Crusades. No Europeans. Same monstrous behavior as seen in other places.
Yup. I’m with Dys on this.
Seems to me it was the head-chopping, kidnapping, gun-running members of the Religion of Peace™ in the southern parts of the Republic of the Phillipines, who have had independence for quite some time,
that were going to supply Senator Leland Yee, the Third Most Influential Politician™ in CA with his gun-running laundry list.
In the name of The Moon God, so that made it ok.
H, “multi-culturalism’ is the pc speak code word, like ‘social justic’ that has been used by the Progressivesv2.0 to cover up their real agenda, to create and support separateness, using divisive partisan ‘us vs them’ politics, just as it worked in the post civil rights movement by race hustlers and community organizers to extraxt a bigger piece of the pie, and most important power for the elites, based on race, and class envy, rather than individual hard work and responsibility, respect for the law, property, equal rights for opportunity rather than equal outcomes diktat’d by the State, as in Marxist philosophy. Now that the Progressive social experiment has failed, as is obvious to anyone with a grasp on history, the local news, of watching overseas, in Europe,where they are a generation ahead of us, it should be clear why Progressives are desperate to gain control while its all dalling apart.
They have doomed a couple of generations of welfare dependens to live on the plantation for government handouts, and despite trying to import massive numbers of more sheep, the funny thing is most old school Hispanics are waking up. Their traditional family values tor self sufficiency, family values, and Catholic ideas on abortiin, foe example, are fitting too well…ans you only have to look to east LA or prison populations to see how the “tribal politics” are playing out.
So the progtards in charge are desperate to find more ways to divide Americans, including by sub categories, bitter clingers remember? This isnt going to work, and the pushback on gun rights, despite FedGov collusion with progressive community groups, abuse of executive power at State and Federal levels, and the active support of the reliable StateRunMedia propaganda organs, is proof.
There’s a reason “to the shores of Tripoli” is in the Marine Corps Hymn.
Read your history. One reason the Islamic nations question our motives is because the Crusades were a bloody invasion of the East by Christians in the name of Christianity You really need to read a history book. The Crusades were a counter offensive against the general Muslim Jihad invasion taking place in Europe.
I’m unclear here DJ. Seperate, but equal? A final solution? We scrap the constitution and all those pesky safegaurds? Kinda makes us just like barry and the rest of the grabbers, don’t it.
Perhaps you may have missed school that day when they talked about how this entire country, from the time the very first pilgrims arrived in the new world, was built upon multiculturalism.
No, it was “melting pot”, we are all American’s. Remember?
Maybe went to different schools, or you are much younger.
Today kids are inculcated with the progressive agenda, via elementary schools curricula, and policy.
It can be difficult to reverse brain-washing on your own. Having a job, getting married, a mortgage, and kids starts to make it real. But thats way OT.
The term and concept “melting pot” to describe American social ideals was bunk, first created and publicized by the Rockefellers in order to encourage acceptance by the public of an endless and overwhelming hoard of east and south European immigrants in the last quarter of the 19th century, i.e. cheap labor. This isn’t an extremist myth, but simply the way it happened. Newspaper archives tell the tale. Prior to the extensive effort to sell that notion Americans of various ethnic/linguistic origins felt free and upright to keep to their own and use their languages. German comes to mind.
In the first 150 years of the constitution’s existence separation of church and state did not mean one couldn’t prefer his own ethnics as employees or require working on someone else’s sabbath, but rather meant that officials of the government could not force us to pay for someone else’s religion, force us to belong to their religion, or force us to accommodate unusual practices of another religion. Today it means many different things.
The constitution, as they say, is “just a piece of paper,” no more effective than the people entrusted to maintain its integrity and effect. That goes for Supreme Court justices, judges, legislators, soldiers, and police. Look around you. How well do you think we’re doing?
It may have been a late invention, but it works just fine, and I think that most people today are quite happy with that model, so long as the pot keeps, you know, melting – i.e. people assimilate, and in two generations are fully whatever-American.
For once, the Europeans are right about something
“German Chancellor Angela Merkel declared that in Germany, multiculturalism has “utterly failed.” Both Australia’s ex-prime minister John Howard and Spain’s ex-prime minister Jose Maria Aznar reached the same conclusion about multiculturalism in their countries. British Prime Minister David Cameron has warned that multiculturalism is fostering extremist ideology and directly contributing to homegrown Islamic terrorism. UK Independence Party leader Nigel Farage said the United Kingdom’s push for multiculturalism has not united Britons but pushed them apart. ”
http://www.theitem.com/stories/multiculturalism-has-failed,232146
Earlier this year, Putin told those who have outside of Russia, that Russians are not going to change their laws and culture to make them happy, if they don’t like it they can leave. While Russians should not be a model for everyone, they saw this coming as well.
Multiculturalism causes division and isolation because you have many group that do not integrate and creates a lot of distrust.
Not to anyone in particular but there were more than 1 crusade.
http://www.history.com/topics/crusades
And anyone catch this little outbreak of peace?
https://news.yahoo.com/police-woman-beheaded-oklahoma-workplace-144459291.html
Some in Europe are indeed waking up. From the Swiss Parliament, someone who is not afraid to call Islam out on what it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IXsTKzOTvo
Proud to be of Swiss heritage.
Great points……you might add Japan to the list….they don’t even allow Mosques to be built there. Or take a google into how the Chinese are dealing with 20 Million Uighers in Western China.
Also for those who are dead wrong in their beliefs that allowing Muslims into this country through the soft,
liberal underbelly of our “progressive” society presents no problem, suggest you read “Reflections on the Revolution in Europe” by Christopher Caldwell or “Crisis of Islam” by Bernard Lewis. Multiculturalism
simply doesn’t work. Dystopic (as differentiated from dyspeptic) views within Europe pervade. Birth rates are down except for Muslims…..one goes down, the other is on the rise….the gap widens exponentially.
Barring the fact that Mr Vaughan maybe was a full-time cop before transitioning out of the LEO life and into reserve status, do reserve police officers get much in the way of firearms training? I know the ones down here in SFL don’t receive much, if any at all, and usually aren’t even authorized to carry guns on a regular basis. They are just extra eyes and ears, though I gather in an emergency they can be fully deputized and issued weapons. I’m at lunch and the connection here is so-so so I can’t research fully.
So, if his LE training was minimal or non-existent, I’d say he did a damn fine job stopping the attacks.
But yes, the media may spin his “reserve officer” status into some sort of “undercover brother” status and disregard the fact that he was POTG and a “good guy with a gun”.
Not sure about other states, but in Washington state the reserve officers are required to attend a state mandated reserve officer Academy, which does include firearms training. It is a somewhat more abbreviated version compared to the Academy that full-time law-enforcement go through but it is still a pretty good chunk of training before they are allowed to be commissioned officers. Most of the departments I am aware of around my area require the reserve officers to go through the same ongoing training and firearms qualifications as the full-time line officers.
You are exactly right. This afternoon, I heard 2 news reports, one on the radio, and one from a local TV station, and they both said the attacker was shot by a “deputy” and “law enforcement officer” respectively. One problem. Mark Vaughan wasn’t working as a LEO when he shot the perp, he was working as the COO of Vaughan Foods. A civilian with a gun prevented this violent attack from turning into the next mass murder incident. OMG!!!
I am sure we are all deeply reassured by the FBI’s statement that there is no indication that this individual has any connection to any known Islamic terrorist group.
And most likely, this story will only get 30seconds of air time on major news and wont mention the DGU.
Local news is reporting he was an Islamic convert. Also 911 transcript
http://kfor.com/2014/09/25/reports-police-respond-to-possible-shooting-near-moore-grocery-store/
This is my surprised face.
The DC has the name of the workplace violence religion of peacenik;
http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/26/dinesh-dsouza-prosecutor-floated-as-possible-holder-replacement/
Comments are funny, too.
“when seconds count, the police are only minutes away”.
Serious Kudos to Mr Vaugn, the civilian who stopped the bad guy.
Suspect in stable condition. Drat.
Sounds like “Vaughan Foods chief operating officer and reserve county officer Mark Vaughan” needs some time on the range.
No. He stopped the assailant and prevented further bloodshed without harming any bystanders, which is the goal of any DGU. He showed much more fire discipline than most cops, who would probably have kept firing, bystanders be damned, until they ran out of rounds.
If only he had been the one responding to that Wal-mart…
Yes he stopped the attack but I do wish he had walked over to the suspect and put two more rounds in his head.
That would be murder. And he would go to jail. And if you walk over and execute the man after the threat is neutralized, that’s what should happen.
Why is that? Did he not stop the attack? Killing the assailant is not the goal, stopping the assailant is. If he dies, well, so be it.
When the “suspect” is a Muslim terrorist, the goal is to provide the introduction to Allah he is desperately looking for.
…ad the 72 virgins on golden couches.
“Sounds like “Vaughan Foods chief operating officer and reserve county officer Mark Vaughan” needs some time on the range.”
Bullsqueeze. This is pure, unadulterated nonsense. It always comes up in DGU stories where the baddie lived.
I’ll simply link to what I wrote about this above:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/daniel-zimmerman/breaking-woman-beheaded-oklahoma-city-suspect-shot-good-guy-gun/#comment-1962921
How about we stop living in a fantasy world, eh? The real world is not as your imagination wishes it to be. Unless, of course, you can point me to a statistically significant number of gunfights YOU have been in where you have performed “flawlessly” every single time….you know, those real dynamic situations where someone was shooting back at you or actively trying to behead a friend/coworker – that sort of thing.
This kind of crap just fuels the anti’s beliefs that we are gun heroes in our heads.
First off, he is part of the trained tactical response team. It could be that he had a crazy mother running around with a really big knife trying to cut people’s heads off. I am certain your paper target hasn’t tried to cut your head off before . . . unless you are Tex Grebner and it shot you.
Muslim Beheaders Killed
Murca:1
England:0
Let’s go rub it in!
I thought the guy who murdered Lee Rigby met a swiftish end by the hands of those crazy british police and their evil nasty guns 🙂
Damnit! Ok, take two…
Muslim Rants Over Decapitated Body On Liveleak;
Murca: 0
England: 1
TAKE THAT, YOU LIMEY F&@!KS!
You must call them wankers or something.
My recollection of that event is that the suspects actually survived–they charged the Firearms Officers when they arrived at the scene and were shot for their efforts, but taken to the hospital afterward. Both were eventually convicted and given life imprisonment, one of them without parole and the other expected to serve at least 45 years.
so what does Shannon say? oh yeah . . . crickets.
To the tune of “what does fox say”
Astroturf, bloombergs cash!
to krogers we make a dash!
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah What does shannon say?
I think we need an investigation into the police because their transporter system had to have been down during this attack. Remember, we’ve been lectured that calling 911 is sufficient and the cops will protect us. That clearly didn’t happen for this woman, ergo the transporter system had to be down. How else could such a crime happen when the cops are all we will ever need?
Elliot, Michael, Shannon, you’re with me on this right?
Must have been something with the pattern buffer
Another workplace violence incident in the name of the Religion of Peace…
War on Women?
Lets see how long it takes if ever, for POTUS and his activist AG to weigh in…(crickets)
You mean the AG that just handed in his papers?
Hey Bill, about that last comment you made on cnn?
In one article I read it said that the COO/RO used a rifle. Not sure if that’s true but none of the facts are going to be welcome news to MDA folks for several reasons.
– Calling 911 didn’t end this, a good guy with a gun ended it (and prevented more) before the 911 call was even over…
– Perp had rap sheet (prohibited person) yet somehow committed a violent murder without a gun…
– Good guy used a rifle (allegedly), and quite likely an AR pattern if it is true.
“– Perp had rap sheet (prohibited person) yet somehow committed a violent murder without a gun…”
Repeat loud and often.
Make the anti’s feel their own cognitive dissonance.
Matt
I take your points, they are good ones. But the anti’s can still spin it with the help of the media:
1) They keep referring to him as a “reserve deputy” or whatever. Something official sounding. It is a subtle way of making him sound like he’s part of the “911 establishment” inferring the situation was resolved by a “government protector.”
2) A lot of perps have rap sheets and a lot of them use knives. Hardly any of the behead people, of course. The media can’t avoid that fact, but they seem to be downplaying it, making it seem like it was a unique and inexplicably aberrant act. I have not seen a mainstream news story yet making the obvious point that beheading is a common terror tactic of jihadists.
3) They are calling the defensive weapon used “a rifle” with no other description. If the citizen shooter had done something wrong and it was an AR as you guess it was, they would be calling it “an assault rifle.”
Additional point: Despite the obvious religious references and the beheading, the government and the mainstream media are not referring to this as an act of terrorism. MSNBC did a whole article exclaiming that there is no reason to suspect that this was linked to terrorism.
So the anti’s are getting the spin they want.
Wait a minute!! Isn’t Islam the “religion of peace”?
From President Feckless’ speech at the UN this week:
(http://www.idahostatesman.com/2014/09/25/3393094/obama-to-un-help-us-overcome-worlds.html#storylink=cpy) “With much of the day’s focus on the threat from foreign fighters, Obama issued a direct appeal to young Muslims. “You come from a great tradition that stands for education, not ignorance; innovation, not destruction; the dignity of life, not murder,” Obama said. “Those who call you away from this path are betraying this tradition, not defending it.”
Yeah, about 1400 years of standing for “the dignity of life, not murder” – with a few minor exceptions of killing anyone who disagrees with them, including their fellow Muslims and any unbelievers they can get their hands on. Religion of peace, right.
Read more here:
It’s funny. Less than 1% of gun owners use their guns to commit a crime, and pretty much every commenter here will (rightfully) come to the defense of the overwhelming majority of peaceful gun owners. Less that 1% of Muslims commit acts of terrorism, and here come the commenters condemning all Muslims.
You win the internet?
I’m sure that we will all stop criticizing Muslims when they stop chopping people’s heads off.
I’ll be sure to tell my SSgt, who happens to be Muslim, to stop chopping people’s heads off.
“We’ll stop criticizing gun nuts when they stops murdering children” – MDA (paraphrased)
I don’t condemn all Muslims (I know a few myself), I condemn Islamic culture. Where are all these good Muslims when the sociopathic 1% of their coreligionists are issuing fatwas on cartoonists halfway across the globe?
The fact is that there are seriously toxic elements in Islam. The Koran encourages aggression against unbelievers in one verse and exhorts peace in the other. It seems to me that far too many Muslims excuse violent extremists as people who are just enthusiastically defending their religion, when the truth is that they’re encouraging psychopaths.
What if gun owners just collectively said “meh…” when it came to the rules of firearm safety? What if our collective response to the Sandy Hook mass murder was that it was unfortunate, but inevitable because people should be able to shoot guns anywhere they want?
That’s the attitude that the vast majority of believers take toward violence in the name of Islam. And they get away with it because criticizing another culture’s values is anathema in the brave new world of Western multiculturalism.
Okay, now… Somebody prove me wrong. (I wouldn’t mind being wrong about this.)
Don’t just call me a bigot — show me some evidence that Islamic culture has dedicated itself to a nonviolent path. Why isn’t the violence of Al Qaeda and ISIS/ISIL (and…and…) being denounced from the pulpit in mosques across the world? Or is it, and I’m just not seeing it because I don’t hang out in mosques?
Exactly.
All one needs to do is started reading a bit further than the Qur’an to see where Islam goes off the rails. In particular, the Sira.
Islam isn’t a religion of peace until they’ve captured and dominated an area, then everything within their domain is considered “peaceful.”
Very well said, and far more reasonable than most of the “hur durr Islam = terrorists” comments on here. Thanks for giving a bit of legitimacy to the anti-islam circle jerk that is the comments on this article.
Muslims have been killing one another since the 7th century over a disagreement over who gets to be in charge based on whether they are
a)a bloodline descendant of Ali (Shia) or
b) that the local neighborhood imam can interpret the sunna “way” of the Koran. (Sunni)
the one thing they CAN agree on, is that their good book says that its required, not optional, to convert everyone else to Islam. And, the dhimmi, that would be the lower forms of life known as the Jews, and the Christians, can agree to submit, and pay a tax to not be killed, (think of it as protection money racket), but eventually the have to convert, or go under the sword.
Oh, yeah, no going back…apostates, they call it, are automatically to be put to death.
This is all in the book, and writings, clear as day, and thats why you dont find “moderate” muslims speaking up, because the fundamental hardcore kill them, in countries where there is no other rule of law, like Iraq, where ISIL killed the christians, hazidis, kurds, all related in their subsets of islam or the Book of Abraham the peaceniks like to point to…and took their young girls as sex slaves. Yeah thats in their good book too. Boko Haram is doing same in Nigeria, and that has nothing to do with the Crusades.
So lets cut the PC crap and call Islam what it is, a death cult for worldwide domination.
We are in the Long War, and the sooner we all wake up to it, the better our chances of winning.
While generally well thought out, I do see a problem with your logic here…
You are assuming that the majority of Muslims just ignore what the extremists do, when in fact, many vehemently denounce it, and there are some chiefly Muslim nations helping to beat the snot out of ISIS right now.
There are many Muslims on the ground in Iraq and Syria fighting them as well.
You mean, like all those Muslims burning ISIS flags?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2747644/The-Burn-ISIS-Flag-Challenge-Outraged-Muslims-flood-web-version-Ice-Bucket-Challenge-protest-against-Islamic-State-barbarism.html
To be fair we do have an “Idiot Gun Owner of the Day” here. Let’s hope responsible Muslims will loudly denounce this.
Why should they have to loudly denounce this? To illustrate that not all of them are like that? Right, the same way gun owners should loudly denounce James Holmes (not because of his murderous actions, but because of his gun ownership). If a member of one group does something horrific, the rest of the group needs to denounce him, just to prove that they aren’t all bloodthirsty psychopaths?
Jake – apparently you glossed over my comment about the idiot gun owner of the day on this very site? Whether you think it’s right or not, we as a group denounce idiot gun owner so that it’s clear that they are not like us.
My hope was wishful thinking anyway… latest report I saw said 30 members were at the press conference praising allah.
Wise up.
Well, less than 1% of liberals are as stupid as the liberals you revile…but you have no problem reviling all liberals.
I’m not sure, btw, where you get that 1% figure–you didn’t provide a citation for it. But last I checked 1% of 1 billion was 10 million.
I’d say that ten million murderous, insane, freedom-exploiting, west-hating, civilization-victimizing, child-exploding, child-marrying, female-raping, people-beheading, bomb-planting stabby shooty jihadists running loose on planet earth constitutes a problem.
Particularly since a) they justify their psychopathology via direct reference to their religio-political philosophy and b) the other 99 (or whatever) percent doesn’t lift a finger to protest or stop them.
Preach it!
September 11, 2001.
And worldwide, Muslims cheered ….
The Islamic texts condone and speak of violence about as much as the other religion’s holy books. The reason that Islam is easy to radicalize is that they have been very strict about not translating it from Arabic, which many Muslims cannot read our write. This being true, they rely on others to inform them of what it says, leading to its misrepresentation and justification of jihad. Interestingly enough, teaching them to read their own language may clear up problems in the future. As for the current situation, little more can be done either than fight back.
Thank you.
I’d only add that, like other religious texts, the Koran is interpreted by the vast majority of Muslims and Muslim clerics as totally condemning these lunatics and their acts.
See- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-is-an-offence-to-islam-says-international-coalition-of-major-islamic-scholars-9756255.html
So it’s ignorance and illiteracy more than anything else? I dunno…maybe in some places, but in Europe and North America, there’s no excuse for not knowing what’s in your own holy book.
I have a copy of the Koran on the bookshelf in my hallway at home (right next to the King James Bible, the Book of Mormon, a protestant hymn book, and a 4-volume history of the LDS church). If I’m more familiar with Islam’s founding document than 90% of its believers, that’s a sad commentary.
It’s actually true, especially so in shitholes like Afghanistan. Ask someone who served there how many locals speak Arabic. Now think about what it means when their holy book is _only_ distributed in Arabic.
Even the local mullahs aren’t much better. They learn to recite the Koran, but they just do rote memorization of words as they are pronounced, and don’t know what they actually mean. Then they also learn the interpretation – but that is interpretation, not translation, and being passed from generation to generation it’s kinda like broken telephone.
Counting references is misleading, the Bible never exhorts Christians to kill unbelievers. It does exhort the kingdom of Israel as a geopolitical entity to enact policies which include capital punishment (Pentateuch). It also reinforces that killing is the purview of the government (Romans 13). And it includes descriptive accounts of violent overthrow of occupying forces (especially in Judges). But never, ever, is anyone told to go through the entire world killing anyone who refuses to convert.
That said, I recognize that there is a peaceful stream within Islam. But while being an extremist within Christianity means that my wife takes seriously that scripture tells her to submit to me, that we are opposed to divorce except in cases of adultery or abandonment, that we don’t use contraception and we believe in Biblical inerrancy. An extremist Muslim chops off people’s heads. Both forms of extremism can easily be justified by our religious texts.
You know, I’ve met people who self-identified as Christians who also believed that imposing the entire gamut of punishments proscribed in the Old Testament (stoning for adultery or sodomy etc) is what a truly Christian society should do.
I’m sure you have. I have too. But they do so in defiance of what every Christian in the broad sweep of orthodoxy has ever taught. Also, I am not aware of any of them actually doing it. And when some redneck does murder a homosexual, it’s not a church function.
FWIW I am totally opposed to taking constitutionally guaranteed rights away. And I sort of hold to the notion that the constitution IS a suicide pact. We start justifying violating it, we might as well let the country burn and start over.
If the media gives this much airtime they will most likely focus on the ‘reserve officer’ part. Same with the angry moms, see he was a off-duty cop will probably be the line. I am assuming that is what they mean by reserve county officer, and not a reserve officer in the military.
I disagree that Mother Jones will be upset. The shooter was a “reserve county officer” and was talked about that way in the press conference. So he is in the “government protector” category. If he had just been an “armed citizen,” then MJ’s heads would have been popping.
So was it a “terrorist attack” or a workplace dispute?
Either way, I see we’ve already commenced in blanket statements. I like how you guys can say “All muslims are evil” out one side of your mouth as if the criminal actions of individuals represent the whole, yet we all know the criminal actions of individuals with a gun does not represent the whole and condemn MDA etc for acting like it does. Gun owners are not immune to irrationality and unreasonableness, or even hypocrisy.
You ninja’d me. Some of the commenter attitudes here are ridiculous, especially when it comes to Islam.
When gun owners start rampaging throughout the world, chopping people’s heads off for not being gun owners, then you can complain about gun owners.
There are lots of Muslims out there on the sidelines, enjoying the show, although they personally have killed nobody. The rest are taking heads in the name of Islam. If the “good” Muslims can’t pick up their own garbage, they don’t deserve our respect.
“There are lots of Muslims out there on the sidelines, enjoying the show, although they personally have killed nobody.”
Like who?
“If the “good” Muslims can’t pick up their own garbage, they don’t deserve our respect”
What does that even mean? Do you expect all Muslims to know exactly who is going to flip out at any given moment? If they did, I sure would like to know how so we, as gun owners, can stop the mass shooters before they step foot out their door.
Even Christians don’t have control over their own, WTF do you expect from Muslims?
I don’t expect “good” Muslims to be clairvoyant and divine who will flip-out before they flip-out.
I do expect “good” Muslims to strongly and harshly condemn the jihad doctrine of executing people who reject Isam (infidels). Strangely, I never seem to hear any such condemnation.
You show me a contemporary Christian record of religious-justified violence equal to this…
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
…then you can honk on about the substantial equivalence between Islam and Christianity.
Islam has not evolved since the Dark Ages. Christianity has.
And that makes a difference.
Those with a taste for science, rather than political orthodoxy, might enjoy reading about rates of violence in societies where cousins, or closer, routinely marry, and those who do not. The genetics of violence are pretty well understood at this point.
“I do expect “good” Muslims to strongly and harshly condemn the jihad doctrine of executing people who reject Isam (infidels). Strangely, I never seem to hear any such condemnation.”
Strangely, you must have your fingers in your ears: https://www.google.com/search?q=muslims+condemn+isis&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
Gun owners come from all walks of life, gender, religion, citizenship and profession. The only thing we have in common is an inanimate object that goes bang. I get your point but comparing ragtags to an organized group of people that share a religious and political ideology is a bit of a stretch. Perhaps Nazis would be a better comparison?
Muslims are organized? Might want to tell the Sunnis and Shiites that.
News outlets are already trying to fuzz up the fact that the the good guy with a gun was someone who worked there, selectively only mentioning him as a reserve officer. They’re trying to make it sound like the police came in and saved the day, rather than an armed employee who was already there.
The incorrect connection the media will make, if they bother to talk about this at all, is that being a reserve officer the guy with the gun was some super-trained highly-qualified warrior.
The correct connection would be that the guy with a gun had a gun because unlike most oblivious drones out there being a reserve officer he knew the value of a gun for defense of himself and others.
kcco.com stories are referring to the Good Guy with a gun as “off-duty deputy” and “sheriff’s deputy” in their 2 stories about it.
I feel like the media will downplay the fact that he is an employee there and that’s why he was able to save 1 or more lives.
I’m so glad he was there and willing to act. I bet a whole bunch of other people as glad too….
This WAS reported as a beheading on the local Chicago news. We need to hammer the Muslim angle too. And WHY is anyone ragging on the guy who shot him? The goal is to stop. It will be interesting to see who covers this. Fox and CBN sure. Maybe locally. Barry Soetero will call it “workplace violence”…
“That popping noise in the distance is the sound of heads exploding at Mother Jones.”
That there is one of the best comments I have ever read … you win the InterTubz for the year!
It can happen anywhere, and this is the proof. A determined assailant, regardless of his motives, will find a tool with which to commit his crimes. You could be shopping, and *boom* someone rushes you. Yeah, calling 911 will work…
Or puking on yourself. Don’t forget that.
Or…just TELL them you have some bodily issue going on…that makes crazed, violent attackers stop and think every time. Right anti’s? Right?
Please notice the lengths to which CNN tries to disperse the simple fact that a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a knife.
Wonder which way the tolerance level for personally carried weapons went today in Moore?
This crap is going to end up being a second Reconquista if everyone is just going to be so blasé about this crap…like a wave of religious decapitation mania can be something to be able to be blasé about and still be sane. Pretty soon someone is gonna have to get all Charles Martel on these bastards, which actually sounds like what a determined group of pissed-off Americans (i.e. militia) might do if this goes on too long and nobody starts stepping up to the plate if this happens where they live with any regularity.
Yeah, we should all attack them and their businesses all at once at one night. We could even name the event. “Kristallnacht” has a ring to it.
This cannot be right! Islam is a religion of peace!
So when are we going to cut the BS and admit that we are now engaged in a religious war? Deporting all Muslims seems more and more appropriate by the day.
Yeah, because who needs a First Amendment? (Or a 2nd?)
Islam is officially America’s #1 enemy, and its followers do not deserve constitutional protection.
Replace “Islam” with “Judaism” and guess who you sound like?
Wake up Grind. Simplistic moral equivalence fallacies dont cut it, even as a joke. Do Reform Jews behead Orthodox Jews, and take their kids for sex slaves? Are the Southern Baptists blowing up Catholic cathedrals?
Read the news, man.
One beheading and so we must violate the rights and lives of 7 million United States citizens? How about you wake up from your own hypocrisy.
Oh really. Tell me more about which groups of Jews are currently murdering thousands in parts of the world, and threatening to bring their fight to western nations.
It’s unfortunate that Americans are now so worried about being labeled racist, xenophobic, and so on, that many of us are simply unwilling to admit that there is an identifiable threat to the entire western world, which must be resolved before it destroys us.
Things like Japanese internment were constitutionally questionable, but I seem to recall that we won that war due in part to identifying the enemy, and going after them aggressively until they stopped what they were doing.
Americans today? Too weak to do it.
Nice try, Grind but no seegar. That is what is known as a strawman argument, and a pretty hysterical one at that. If you truly think like this, I cant help you. If you want to come back to the side topic which was, is Islam a religion of peace, then we can discuss more.
If you are just tossing out these faux objctions to distract, deny, or shoot the messenger, all typical troll behavior, and part of the pathetic progtard Alinsky Rules, then you aren’t gonna get much traction here.
publius2, your attempt at mashing words togther in the hopes of having an actually coherent rebuttal just shows how little you understand the connection between rounding people up for their religion and fascism.
How is it a strawman argument? We have people right here who are talking about the Japanese Internment as if it wasn’t such a bad idea.
I think it’s funny that folks here think it will be the federal government alphabet agencies that will destroy the constitution. No, it’s people like Jeff that will happily toss out (and have tossed out) rights and responsibilities for the feeling of safety against some scary boogie monster.
‘If fascism came to America it will come wrapped in the flag and whistling ‘The Star Spangled Banner’ (and probably carrying a cross).
Constitution protects everyone, regardless of whether they “deserve” it or not. That’s why there is a right of due process even in the most egregious crimes, for example. If someone had the right to arbitrarily decide whether any particular person or group “deserve” their constitutional rights, then the whole constitution goes out of the window. How do you feel about being internet on account of being a gun owner? I’m pretty sure that a lot of folk in, say, California would say that gun owners don’t deserve constitutional protections.
I find hard-line Islamic culture to be a threat to Western civilization, as does every thinking person.
But massive deportations based only on religion? Then you have crossed over and become exactly what you fear (an unAmerican, unConstitutional idiot), and I would gladly use my Second Amendment rights to protect innocent Muslims’ First Amendment rights.
You sound like a progressive. You are the problem.
What saddens me the most are that these kind of people (the nazi-like posters) are the only ones that people see as the public face of gun owners. Why do you think the caricature of a gun owner is an OFWG with the Stars n’ Bars and hates everything that’s not a WASP? Because aholes like these.
It’s a threat to Americans, but not to western civilization. That’s giving way too much credit.
The only way extremist Islam will destroy western civilization is it it convinces the west to destroy itself and all that it has accomplished.
Nailed it. They already got us to give ourselves the TSA, DHS, two wars, Patriot Act, etc etc. All under the guise of “security”. And now we have these posters demanding genocide against all Muslims. Yet they get all bent out of shape when someone wants a 10 Commandments monument removed from government property.
Hypocrites and fascists.
Grind, Hannibal,
You created your strawman argument- ‘all gun owners are fascists who will deport Muslims”
and when no one answers the ridiculous assertion, you confirm your own hysteria, by saying “see, I was right”.
This is a place where there are a LOT of individual opinions, none of which speaks for everyone, just as your pathetic attempt to put words in someone’s mouth, and then draw an even more extreme conclusion doesnt carry any special weight or authority.
Its just your loony tune. And, sorry to be so blunt, but it only makes you look like a lefty nut case.
“You created your strawman argument- ‘all gun owners are fascists who will deport Muslims”
and when no one answers the ridiculous assertion, you confirm your own hysteria, by saying “see, I was right”.
This is a place where there are a LOT of individual opinions, none of which speaks for everyone, just as your pathetic attempt to put words in someone’s mouth, and then draw an even more extreme conclusion doesnt carry any special weight or authority.”
I would love for you to show me where I said “All gun owners are fascists who will deport Muslims”. Please, show me where I said that. That would be really interesting because, as a gun owner, I’m not a fascists or want to deport people based on their religious preference. No, it is many of the posters (NOTE I DID NOT SAY “ALL”) here who make the assertion beginning with “all”. I am not an irrational xenophobe like that, lumping ALL people into a nifty little pigeon hole.
I would say “nice try” but that was a really terrible attempt at flipping the argument around and labeling me as the one making blanket statements, when if you actually read my comment it’s clear I never said as such.
“Its just your loony tune. And, sorry to be so blunt, but it only makes you look like a lefty nut case.”
If not being irrational and unreasonable makes me a “lefty nut case”, I’ll wear that badge proudly.
The story as CNN presented it doesn’t make sense. They repeatedly refer to the attacker “stabbing” the first victim … oh, and by the way apparently, incidentally, for some obscure reason, her head was somehow separated from her body. The problem: heads do not detach from victims when an attacker “stabs” the victim. It takes a concerted effort to remove someone’s head from their body.
This story makes a lot more sense if the attacker was an ISIS sympathizer or member and beheaded someone as part of his membership with that group. Yes, people have gone on killing rampages as disgruntled ex-employees. But I have never heard of anyone expending the extra time/effort to decapitate victims.
It seems like the RO issued his own personal fatwa on Alton Nolan’s @ss. And the defender is also the company’s COO. Damn, who’s gonna audit that guy?
All of these recent school shootings have been carried out by white American males. Then you have Timothy McVeigh. Think we should deport Christian American males? Killing kids, too!
In WWII should your parents have been deported considering how much folks of Italian & German extraction there are. The Brits too. They burned the White House. The French they wouldn’t let us fly over to bomb Libya. Spain, we lost the Alamo to them….
Get over it an ask yourself what would JC think because you are doing a lot of hating of all the practicers of a religion when a few people are doing this violence.
Gotta love the “b-but what about Tim McVeigh!?” defense. Y’know, some guy was killed with a crossbow a few years back in New York. Doesn’t mean we should drop everything else and put all our resources into preventing crossbow murders.
I hope the they do not fire the executive like Walgreens does to pharmacists that defend themselves with guns.
I’m guessing he won’t have that problem. He’s the COO. His name is Mark Vaughan and the company is called Vaughan Foods, so…family business. And then there’s the fact that he’s a reserve police officer.
time to get rid of the so called peaceful religion of islam….
I suppose you support banning guns when someone shoots up a school, then? Same logic.
LoL “meta-hypercorrect trolling” guy. Yeah, I just made that up.
Or “logic guy.” That works even better.
We need to recognize that Islamic culture may be fundamentally incompatible with pluralistic secular democracy, but I can’t believe how many people in here are calling for what would basically be genocide — or at the very least, are so eager to crap all over the Constitution just to get at someone they hate.
The early Mormons (my ancestors), who really WERE a religion of peace, were hounded out of the “civilized” parts of the US and into the wilderness by people just like you and Timothy Wahl. Plus, this is the same kind of thing our anti-gun opponents want to do to us.
I don’t like their religion, but as someone else said above, I’ll use my Second Amendment rights to defend any Muslim’s First Amendment rights if I have to. If all Americans don’t have the same rights, then we might as well have none.
I’m actually a little bit ashamed to be seen here right now.
Yeah, rights and freedoms are totally trollish.
So the Mountain Meadows massacre of 120+ innocents by Mormons was a ‘peaceful’ act? They were chased out to Utah after their crazy cult leader had them at war with the State of MO in 1838, and IL in 1844. They decided to take over from us ‘sinners’, and that god would grant them our lands and properties after the second coming and all that rot. Joseph Smith was a con-man and constantly incited his believers to do all sorts of heinous things. Smith’s constant attempts to turn cities into theocracies run by his cult were seen for what they were, after being appeased and tolerated for far too long.
“By what color of propriety a portion of the people of the State, can organize themselves into a body, independent of the civil power, and contravene the general laws of the land by preventing the free enjoyment of the right of citizenship to another portion of the people, we are at a loss to comprehend. ”
Southern Advocate, 1 Sept 1838
In MO and IL, the Mormons used almost the same tactics as the Muslims are now using in the EU. Breed like rabbits, work their way into government positions, vote as blocs, claim to be a religion of peace, be anything but. Take over, then run out everyone who isn’t Mormon. Utah is still not a very welcoming place for non-Mormons even today. (Except maybe Park City…)
Prior to the massacre the Utah territories were at most generous a theo-democracy run by Brigham Young. The Temples were filled with exactly the same sort of religious kill-the-nonbelievers-fire-n-brimstone as these off the rails Muslims. The Fed finally reigned them in a bit, but they got their wish – the closest thing to a theocracy we’ve ever had in the US. Still out there in Four Corners, running little cult towns, breeding with 12 year olds, multiple wives, physical and sexual abuse, the whole nine yards of religion.
Constitution, shmonstitution.
The Good Guy With a Gun, ie the COO of Vaughan Foods, was not a Sherrif’s Deputy, he was an Oklahoma County Reserve Deputy. See qualifications and training below:
The Reserve Division consists of nearly 300 members. The Sheriff requires all Reserve Deputies be active and well trained. The Reserve Division has undergone extensive restructuring and a full-time deputy has been appointed to coordinate the program to ensure professional conduct. Each Reserve Deputy is required to work a minimum of 16 hours a month, attend a basic law enforcement academy, and attend annual refresher training.
The Reserve Division is now one of the most active divisions within the agency in providing law enforcement services for our citizens donating millions of dollars worth of time to the citizens of Oklahoma County.
The Reserve Division is responsible for the Mounted Horse Patrol. Reserve Deputies participate in all aspects of our operations including warrant and jail sweeps, manhunts, and provide security for the THRIVE Center, County Pharmacy, and for hospitalized inmates.
Not a professional LEO… rather a citizen donating his time in support of his county.
Well boys and girls jihad is here. Whether you think a convert to Islam shouting slogans is part of ISIS is irrelevant. Look for more beheadings. Didn’t TTAG have a discussion on this recently? “Maybe not HERE but Britain &Europe for sure”. “Cut the heads off of the unbelievers”sura look it up. The “moderate moon god worshippers” need to step up. Unless they AGREE with the Koran. +1 Ralph…
Just in case you had any doubt that the main stream media doesn’t want to report on ordinary people using guns defensively, read CNN’s write up: http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/26/us/oklahoma-beheading/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Notice how they say “Nolen was shot twice” near the end of the story, rather than the CEO shot him. Also, a Sargent from the Oklahoma City police department described the CEO as an “off-duty deputy” rather than a reserve deputy. To my understanding, a reserve deputy and an off-duty deputy are two different things, with off-duty deputy imply the CEO is employed as an LEO.
I guess we have too many DGUs floating around at once.
TT, good point. I’m sticking with facts put out by the cops or local OK news, like kfor Channel4.
They are going to be releasing the real facts, or as close as can be gained.
CNN is just “meat for the dogs” in their audience demographic put together by some eager intern watching the RSS feed, and spun or censored bt the producer to fit “the narrative”
CNN was ground-breaking when it came out , but sadly stopped being news back in the second gulf war. ( Eason Jordan) The active left slant and political agenda has been documented for some time. Cathy Crowley,Teabagger Anderson, there are dozens more example.
To add to and emphasize the point about reserve officers in Oklahoma (just because I are one) they are fully certified law enforcement officers with powers of arrest. Reserves attend extensive state mandated training and most reserves of my acquaintance work far in excess of their department mandated minimum work hours of 16-24 hours per month. They are generally not paid and most furnish their own equipment, firearms and duty gear. Many are long service officers with experience on the job in excess of ten or even twenty years. A statistic I read a couple of years ago said that probably 60-70% of ALL law enforcement in Oklahoma was done by reserve officers.
Unless the guys in the media are long service people themselves and good friends of law enforcement (and there are some great guys that I know personally) they don’t understand all of the subtle but important differences in law enforcement agencies and personnel. Most of the new wave news readers are too stupid or too lazy to understand law enforcement. As another issue some full time officers in big city departments don’t understand the whole reserve thing because they can’t imagine why anybody would want to chase bad guys for free. Then too some of them see reserves as taking jobs away from “real” cops.
Anyway our guy did the right thing by stopping a major league crime. I don’t know how the DA will sort the shooting out as the good guy wasn’t “on duty”. He was working his full time job, saw a horrible crime in progress, and did what he had to do to stop the crime. Yeah the armchair quarterbacks can say that he needed a bigger gun or should have been a better shot but I simply want to shake that guy’s hand and buy him a bottle of whatever he drinks. And not to worry – the DA will shake his hand and buy him a beer too.
I’ll throw in another thought for the guys who want to be a bit critical of his reserve status. The reserves that I work with are probably more ‘into” guns and better shots than lots of the full timers in many departments. Many reserves are shooters and I know that a lot of people are happy today that there was a good guy with a gun present.
I don’t care whether this nutbag worships Allah,Jesus Christ, Yahweh, or a tuna fish sandwich. Anyone who attempts a public beheading, let alone murder, in good conscience deserves every bullet they get.
Riddle me this, wannabe constitution suspenders:
How does it add up that
A. (as you claim) Islam is all about killing non Muslims.
B. Muslims have had total control of the middle east (and other areas) for the last approx. 1,400 years. And yet,
C. ISIS is still easily finding and killing tons of Christians, Yazidis and whatever else that have been there, practicing their religion since before Islam even existed?
It would seem that either ISIS really *is* a lunatic, fringe group that reads the Koran in the most literalist, abhorrent, evil way possible. A reading that Muslims have never before or now accepted
Or
The Muslims of the middle east up until fairly recently were just reallllllllllllllly slow (like close to a millennia and a half slow) about fulfilling their religious duty to “kill all the infidels”.
I’m going to go with the former.
ISIS is finding these people in their path because since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the European/American foreign policy was to prop up whatever strongman thug was available in a country (and countries in this region were created by the Brits & French after WWI) where we wanted the hard-line islamists suppressed. We did this all over the middle east for decades.
Since Obama’s feckless policies have been allowed to flower, we’ve taken down one strongman after another, and nature abhors a vacuum. Now we will see the islamists come back to the front.
Great, that covers the last 100 years.
What explains the 1,300 years before that.
The period before the last 100 years is checkered in the Islamic world. In the Ottoman Empire, you see a divergence between the areas controlled by the Ottoman Empire and those areas not. You can’t draw rules of how well they tolerated non-Muslims; it varied by period of history and who was running the show.
The beginnings of Islam, however, are pretty clear in how they treated non-believers. Look at the battles that led to the Muslim domination of Mecca, which were led by Mohammed and are therefore part of the Sira. Not much quarter was given to the Jews who were in Mecca before Mohammed gave them a choice they could not refuse. And that history (the Sira) is what ISIS is drawing from in their treatment of non-believers. Since Mohammed is above question in Islam, there’s not much that can be questioned in how ISIS is currently treating people in their path. They’re adhering pretty closely to how Mohammed treated prisoners, women, apostates and non-believers from what I see.
Muslims killing Christian citizens of Muslim countries isn’t new, it’s just usually over apostasy. What’s new with ISIS is that they’re dispensing with the, “you can be Christian, y’just have to pay a tax and not convert anyone,” bit and they’re an expansionist military power, which tends to draw attention.
ISIS is not dispensing with it, it’s exactly what they’re doing – Christian residents are giving a choice of converting, paying jizya, or death.
They do massacre Yazidis and Shias outright because they consider them apostates rather than just unbelievers. That part is not new either, though it hasn’t been practiced on such a large scale for many centuries now.
ANTWERP!
Charles Martel is starting to look pretty good about now.
Hammer time! No Europe without stopping the Muslim hoards. I’d volunteer but they don’t want guys in their 60’s 🙂
Let’s look at the score of Islam vs. civil liberties in the US so far.
19 jihadis kill a bit under 3,000 people on 9/11/01, and now we all have to take off our shoes and agree to be irradiated or felt up before we fly. Our electronic communications are being hoovered into huge data warehouses without warrant or even a reason. Our bank accounts are being rifled and inspected for “suspicious” activity.
So let’s ponder what will happen if some Islamic group mounts a Mumbai massacre in the US? Let’s run some basic numbers: 20 attackers, all with legally purchased guns. Let’s make them something sensational for the press – AR’s or AK’s. The attack sites (NB plural) are large shopping malls during the Christmas holiday season.
Let’s say 200+ people dead.
Now the question will be before you all: What are you going to give up? Your gun rights, or your adherence to multiculturalism? Because the public isn’t going to just sit around and say “Suuuuure, let people show up in the US and just buy guns because they pass a NICS check – and then go out and shoot hundreds of people dead!”
You will have to make a choice which you’re going to support: The “right” of Muslims to immigrate to the US, or your gun rights. There will be no middle ground.
As far as I’m concerned, who we allow into the US is a power & right that we who are already here in the US (especially for those of us born here) have over people who are not citizens in the US.
That’s silly Schools want the attendance money of illegals, welfare need bodies to pass out coin, businesses cannot get folks for the labor bomb. Dem’s what their vote…all the while legislators pass laws to restrict your right of lawful self protection. Pink Floyd said it best, “welcome my son, welcome to the machine.”
So if a RLEO wasn’t in the building, what then? The madman continues to murder.
I am in OKC and the local mosques are claiming that they have had nothing to do with this guy. This guy was supposedly converted in prison after he already had a criminal record.
I don’t know for sure if he had mental problems or if he was harboring Racism hiding in his religion.
He ranted on his Facebook page and he did have supporters whom I guess are on the FBI’s watch list.
This guy was fired for voicing his views that women should be stoned to death.
When they fired him, EVERYONE should should have been on their guard for him.
Makes me wonder if his “Islam” is actually the Nation of Islam crapshoot. Those guys aren’t really Islam, but they’re racist and violent as hell.
Wow I woke up and forgot I was on the internet where the person speaking with great authority is a 14yr old with his pants down around.
So much violence has been perpetrated by humans of every religion at some time. Really the great religious texts are pretty clear. The problem is, and I speak as a Christian Minister, that people sit in the pews and listen and believe what ever their priest, minister, rabbi, imam, sensai etc. says. They don’t take responsibility for knowing in their heart what’s true.
They are stuck in a child like world that it’s all good vs evil and never grey. Their parents never taught them that this is all complex. Right hear in these posts the Crusades are forgiven because of Islamic aggression. They’d gone home already. Right here right now you sit where another people lived that your people conquered for their land because you wanted it. You killed for it. How are you better?
So are you living your religion? Seems like few are because Christians are only 6 minutes ahead of Muslims. This time. You see the Middle Ages was Europeans being savages while the Far eastern world was saving the arts and sciences. The Arab world was destroyed by Genghis Kahn.
It seems everyone has had their share or being savage.
When you wonder why some countries have difficulty getting it together check and see if they were colonized by European cultures and continue to have their resources profits enriching others and not the native population.
Study our history with an open mind and let’s talk about this.
Do I think ISIS is asking for it? Oh yeah.
Do I think that other neighbor country’s should take care of the problem? Oh yeah!
Do I think that their book says something that the Bible doesn’t say? No.
The Bible is full of God saying kick ass on these people and take their land. Read it.
Excellent post, good to see some rationality finally starting to seep in.
And what evidence is that YOU are not 14? That rambling indictment of Christianity & bizarre endorsement of medieval Islam makes this old man think you have no connection to a Christian ministry. Charles Martel indeed
LOOK IT UP H.
I pretty much “grain of salted” the lame moral equivalency posts that seemingly Godwinned out by somehow comparing my mention of the Iberian Reconquista and Charles Martel’s actions with Nazis and the Night of Broken Glass. At least he could have used the Night of the Long Knives, it was worse and just sounds cooler.
Hey Borg. This is today, you moron. Cut it out. Crusades. Stop it.
When Leftist NPR radio reported on this this afternoon, they failed to mention the fact this terrorist was a Muslim and they failed to mention the “off duty police officer” was in fact a reserve officer carrying on a CCW. How inconvenient the facts are – so they just leave them out. Of course anyone without their head in a place where it is difficult to breathe knows that head removal is the hallmark of Muslim fanatics.
NPR is infamous for this. I first noticed how NPR edits out inconvenient facts to their perspective back in the 80’s.
We should quit subsidizing NPR/PBS with any taxpayer money. If they want to grift off foundations and listeners/viewers for their nonsense, fine, but quit giving them tax monies.
+1. I started listening to NPR in 1999, because they were one of a couple stations with decent reception on my long drive to work. Despite bragging on their impartiality and taxpayer supported status, it was pretty obvious there was a bias, in the news and especially in the feature pieces. So one day I called the station, got ahold of someone, a producer I think, with long experience and very naively asked if they were aware if that was how they were being perceived. He said, yeah, and agreed but said it was out of his hands as it driven by local management and direction from the national org.
When I first heard about the attack on the Twin Towers was on NPR, on my mornig drive to work. Daniel Schorr, their Senior News Analyst, made some reflexive comments about how America was to blame.
Have never listened to NPR since, but based on what I’ve read I dont think anything has changed, even the plummy faux upper crust British accents.
What has happened to our focus, that the thread descends into a debate, “Islam: Murderous cult or peaceful religion?”
The words to be spoken after Vaughn’s swift downing of the murderous ex-employee needn’t be a critique of Islam, but rather a public paean declaiming, with sound and current evidence, the benefit of the right to keep and bear arms in a world that actually has psychopaths and murderous zealots of diverse sorts wandering the streets obsessing on the scenes of heinous violence they hope to enact. The police can’t be at the scenes that will unfold, but the intended victims, their families and colleagues, certainly will be there. If they have a gun, the murderous rampage may well be cut short.
[Needless to say, the reserve deputy hadn’t been called up, and therefore was acting as a private citizen. I expect examing PD insurance/subrogation policies will make that clear.]
Well said.
Fort Wayne newspaper headlind fired man beheads coworker shot by a company official. Paper left out converted Muslim part and good guy with a gun.
Feed this man to ravenous pigs. Let the Islamic world know that he is inside a pig and will be pig excrement.
Roping, the reason Islam is part of the conversation, is because of the lede, “Muslim Convert”. And, as suspected, it appears his motivation to behead his co-worker with a knife (signature method preferred by Mohammed for killing his prisoners) is kno being used as terror PR by ISIS against innocents, including Western journalists, to promote their vision of what Islam should be.
And as this unfolds, it appears his motivation was about Islam, as he was fired partly for being unable to get along on the job, trying to convert others to Islam, and the last straw appears to be an argument about stoning women. Whereupon he promptly left the HR office, and went back into the plant to kill his co-worker, a woman two decades older than he, and stab another.
So there is a thread in this topic, about a DGU by a civilian, stopping a bad guy, and a fhred that is about Islam.
And some here have opinions about Islam, and its moral underpinnings, including me. And when you consider how our 2A rights were framed in law by our Founders, specifically to give free citizens the means to resist the tyranny of a totalitarian State, then the conversation about Islam again is highly relevant.
This site is called The Truth About Guns. And its abiut the culture, politics, etc which by definition is going to drift into discussions about totalitarian death cults masqureading as a religion.
Now, for the record, I dont expect to convert anyone to my point of view, certainly not anonymously fat fingering a kindle over the innertubz. But I do expect to be able to speak the truth, as I see it, when some criminal psycho convert to Islam is trying to persuade others, at the pojnt of a knife.
Good shoot, but too bad it didn’t happen sooner.
Where is the outrage?
Where are the burning cars and protests in the streets when a black man slaughters a white woman?
Where are Sharpton, Jackson, and Farrakhan leading the march against hate and injustice?
Their voices and websites are deadly silent on the subject.
…like the rest of the CIVILIZED Oklahoma community — and the world.
I’m completely sick of this pathetic, apologetic double-standard.
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