Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Marijuana and Firearms?

February 7, 2013

I think all drugs should be legalized. I also think the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives should be eliminated. At the very least BAFTE should be demoted right back to being a division of the IRS. An unarmed division of the IRS. So this news [via thehill.com] came as a mixed blessing: “A handful of House Democrats on Tuesday introduced legislation [click here for HR 501] that would decriminalize marijuana at the federal level and regulate it through a new Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Marijuana and Firearms. They also proposed a separate bill setting a federal tax on what would be a newly legal marijuana industry, to offset the cost of federal regulation.” Hello? What about explosives? And the ATF’s other bureaucratic bailiwick: really big fires? Or, like I said, how about nothing?

57 COMMENTS

Thomas Paine February 7, 2013 At 18:08

maybe they’d do paperwork even slower.
- Thomas Paine February 7, 2013 At 18:16
  
  fun with acronyms: MEFAT. BFMATE. FMEAT. BMEAT and F.
  
  I like ‘BMEAT and F’ the best.
  - Brandon Paine March 16, 2013 At 08:30
    
    Thomas Paine…..are we related?
    
    Brandon Paine, Fl.
William February 7, 2013 At 18:10

Anybody (well, nearly) can grow it in their yard. You want to TAX something that anyone can grow. I agree with you on legalization, but meth heads should be made to wear propeller beanies.

How about taxing LEGISLATION?
- Derek February 8, 2013 At 08:16
  
  Oh hellz yes. Every member of Congress is taxed $500 every time a bill is introduced and $1500 every time a law is passed. Of course, they’d just start making bill 50,000 pages long. How about $1 per page introduced and $5 per page passed? I like it 🙂
Ralph February 7, 2013 At 18:12

Alcohol, tobacco, marijuana and firearms sounds like a party. Throw in a rock band and some hookers and I’ll sign up right now. They don’t even have to pay me.

But I’m not shooting no dogs. Nuh-uh. I would do anything for alcohol, tobacco, marijuana and firearms, but I won’t do that. I won’t do that.
- William February 7, 2013 At 18:13
  
  “Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms” sounds like a STORE I’d like to run! Maybe in Nevada.
  - Ralph February 7, 2013 At 18:32
    
    I’ll have a quart of vodka, a box of La Gloria Cubanas, an M14, a spam can of 7.62X54R and a doobie, to go. And make that doobie a double.
    
    Man, you just gotta have a drive up window.
    - Moonshine February 7, 2013 At 19:40
      
      Don’t forget the side of C4. Got a couple tree stumps in my backyard that gotta go. 😉
      - RJOGuillory February 7, 2013 At 21:17
        
        …hey, now..be careful….where I live…occasionally,…not always…but occasionally they find a big chunk of gold under the root-ball of some old dead-ass tree…we might want to take our out a little more….manually….ha!
        
        Regards,
        
        RJ O’Guillory
        Author-
        Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family
    - Ralph February 7, 2013 At 20:06
      
      Yo, ‘shine! Is “tree stumps” the new slang for “ATF agents?”
    - 16V February 7, 2013 At 22:22
      
      Gold under a tree in Webster Graves? When did that happen?
      - RJOGuillory February 7, 2013 At 23:45
        
        ….he,he,he…I’ve not lived in Webster Groves for 35 years…and I left the St. Louis area about 30 years ago….since then…. I’ve lived and worked in Japan, Germany, Bosnia, Hungary, Croatia, Korea….Maryland, San Antonio, Southern California…all over the US…most of Europe….so my current, retirement spot is known for finding the occasional nugget here and there…(at least what I am told…as I am an outsider …Ha!)
        
        Regards,
        
        RJ O’Guillory
        Author-
        Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family
    - Derek February 8, 2013 At 08:18
      
      “La Gloria Cubanas…”
      
      Serie R number 7s?
  - Dyspeptic Gunsmith February 8, 2013 At 15:06
    
    There is just such a store in Nevada. It’s on US-50, in Fallon, before you get to the center of town on your way in from Fernley.
    
    It’s right next to the Big R farming supply store. Which also sells guns, BTW.
- pat February 7, 2013 At 22:58
  
  Ralph, that was almost the beginnings of a tacky Meat Loaf song at the end of your post. I effing hate the AT(M?)F with a passion. Sticking their snouts into things the US citizen enjoys to the point of putting a pill in the eye of a mom with a baby (50 cal into Vicki Weaver for framing her hubby with a stupid sawed off shotie). ATF should be broken up and defanged.
William February 7, 2013 At 18:12

Oh – that footage leaves out the important part. I’m sure someone here remembers it – when one of the ATF agents goes through the window, another one shoots right into the window, SURELY killing or wounding the first agent. I guess they blamed it on the Branch Davidians.
Nate February 7, 2013 At 18:15

I agree they should be disarmed and dissolved back into the IRS. It is time.

They have bad leadership, ideology, and methodologies. From what I have read they have the “guilty til proven innocent” doctrine of the IRS and abusive Federal policing powers.

While I do not partake of the substance, I’ve never understood why it was illegal in the first place.
- Ralph February 7, 2013 At 18:37
  
  It’s illegal because it was thought to be the drug of choice of Mexicans and black jazz musicians. This is attributed to Harry Anslinger of the Bureau of Narcotics:
  
  “There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others.”
  - RJOGuillory February 7, 2013 At 19:01
    
    …it is illegal because the wood suppliers and newspaper publishers… as well as the paper manufacturers (who owned most wood pulp companies) knew that industrial Hemp would drive them out of business…in addition to the “new-age” plastics and synthetics being invented at the time….legal hemp will revive the North American Continent…and perhaps placate the populous long enough for the Grand Puba to get himself elected three times…or to control us better while under Martial Law…
    
    Regards,
    
    RJ O’Guillory
    Author-
    Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family
    - Ralph February 7, 2013 At 19:39
      
      Dupont also conducted a major campaign against hemp — they viewed it as competitive with nylon.
  - Carrymagnum February 8, 2013 At 17:15
    
    “There are 100,000 total pot smokers…”
    In hindsight, that is comic gold. It’s racist as hell. But that bit about it making women seek sexual relations with negroes is about as funny as it gets. Penis envy much? Bet he had an inverted pecker. Poor guy.
Michael B. February 7, 2013 At 18:15

Ah, Those Mother F***ers
- Loyd February 7, 2013 At 18:37
  
  +1
Jim D February 7, 2013 At 18:20

Yes, disarm them first of all. We saw their handiwork enough already. After all, Homeland security has all the ammo anyway.
In Memphis February 7, 2013 At 18:20

Great, drop the Firearms and with a couple new letters in their alphabet (maybe Arson and Nazis) we can call them BATMAN.

EDIT: I thought they were re-dubbed the Violent Crimes Berau and took on the FBIs job description?
- Steve in MA February 7, 2013 At 19:57
  
  they gave themselves the nickname, nothing official.
Jim D February 7, 2013 At 18:22

Oh yes, Homeless security has those banned hollowpoint thingies too. Hope they don’t use any in Kaliforn I A
adamt February 7, 2013 At 18:24

Bout time. Let’s take it one step at a time and get it legal and then we can take care of the ATF. Once you legalize it you will see crime and such drop and then we won’t need the ATF
- Brian February 7, 2013 At 18:29
  
  There is a lot of good scholarship that argues legalizing would lower our violent, and especially our “gun” crime rates considerably. Pro-2A folks should be pushing for this out of self preservation if nothing else.
Brian S February 7, 2013 At 18:30

I agree, demote them back to a division of the IRS… then get rid of the IRS and the federal reserve system
BATFEATME February 7, 2013 At 18:32

So how does it work filling out a 4473 in the states where pot has been legalized? Do you get your transfer blocked because you answer yes to the drug question or do you just perjure yourself by lying on the form? What if “improved” background checks for NICS begins to restrict people who have a medical marijuana card(I think it’s Cali where you have to have a card).
- Ralph February 7, 2013 At 19:00
  
  I think it’s Cali where you have to have a car.
  
  If you can drive to South Central, you don’t need no stinkin’ card.
- Pro-Liberty February 8, 2013 At 10:15
  
  My understanding is that a person present a medical marijuana ID card as a form of identification to an FFL, or the dealer otherwise receives information that the person is a user of controlled substances in violation of federal law, the transfer should not go forward. It is also my understanding that the ATF is treating medpot cards as evidence that a person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance and is therefore a prohibited person.
  
  The fact that state law no longer prohibits marijuana doesn’t change the fact that marijuana is prohibited by the feds, or the fact that being a user of the drug makes you a prohibited person for purposes of federal firearms law.
NS February 7, 2013 At 18:37

+1 Disarm the government as much as possible. Good thing they took care of those evil Branch Davidians — sometimes you’ve gotta shoot at people who aren’t threats to you so that they shoot back so that they become threats to you, amirite?
Wiebelhaus February 7, 2013 At 19:34

How can I contact Robert Farago?
- Moonshine February 7, 2013 At 19:44
  
  See top of page.
Tom February 7, 2013 At 20:23

Taxes on Marijuana should be determined by each respective state and revenues remain in that state. What, now the Fed’s see so many state’s legalizing it and they (Fed’s) know they would be idiots to prosecute. NOW they want to reap the benefits of the hard fought for legalization each state and “decriminalize” at the Fed level to collect TAXES and REGULATE OH BULL SH!T ! Every State Governor should tell the FED’s to pound sand. I don’t even smoke it but this is NUTS !!
Jason Lynch February 7, 2013 At 21:05

Really conflicted on this one, personally. The libertarian in me says legalise drugs and let people live with the consequences of their choices. My pharmacy experience warns me that some of these substances will ruin your judgement and suck you into a self-destructive death spiral (which is what drug-dealing scumbags depend on, that’s why they peddle the most addictive and ruinous crap they can, precisely to make you brain-dead dependent)

Personally? Heavy drinker, especially by US standards , but steer far clear of any illicit chemotherapy, the day job demands good behaviour and booze is legal while other chemical recreations aren’t. However, I’ve worked in medical units where “they took *what?* and have friends who’ve self-medicated with assorted substances and admitted to it to me; not all currently-banned drugs are created equal.

Some I’d legalise happily as “less grief than booze”, some I’d grit my teeth and say prohibition’s failed, a few – crystal meth leaps to mind – I’d focus all the effort freed up from less hateful stuff, because they just destroy their users.
- RJOGuillory February 7, 2013 At 23:59
  
  Jason….to be a “libertarian” you have to be willing to let people enjoy the results of their success, as well as absorb the “cost” of their failures….as long as those liabilities are borne by the decision maker, and have moderate to zero impact on others…the tool used to alter one’s emotional and mental well-being, and to help to process the cognitive dissonance that were are engulfed by,…whether that tool is “legal” or not is kind of irrelevant,….until we work on creating better parents, less parental-ego-state children…having children….the tool people use is going to change throughout time, until we fix the machine….the human soul….and until we learn to exploit, in a positive manner… the human potential….the tool will change generation to generation …my god, can’t we just fix the poor machines…
  
  Regards,
  
  RJ O’Guillory
  Author-
  Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family
  - GS650G February 8, 2013 At 09:39
    
    “.as long as those liabilities are borne by the decision maker, and have moderate to zero impact on others”
    
    Good luck with that part. Try telling the masses they are on their own. That’s the big failing of the idea.
    - RJOGuillory February 8, 2013 At 13:17
      
      …well, I’d started to write “as long as it doesn’t impact others”…but that is almost impossible in this day and age? Granted, one can stay away from society for long periods, and act in a libertarian manner that has no negative impact on others, but at some time, if that person wants to interact in society…the premise of complete individual liberty goes out the door….take bathing for example….you can never bathe or shower for all I care…but if you try to come into my place of business (or home) smelling like a ripe garbage truck…I have no reason to simply accept the results of your chosen lifestyle….so I think a good libertarian tries to reduce their liberty footprint into other peoples lives….keep their own as small as possible… though…I do see your point….Ha!
      
      Regards,
      
      RJ O’Guillory
      Author-
      Webster Groves-The Life of an Insane Family
Randy Drescher February 7, 2013 At 23:57

A friend lives in Costa Rica & he said some banana republic down there couldn’t afford to combat drug crime anymore, so they just gave up & declared all drugs legal. They were shooting heroin in the public park for awhile & then many just lost interest in drugs, why bother when its legal they said, Randy/// I didn’t need an AR untill my government said its so good I just “have” to have one. Besides, I got me a RR to blow up with one,lol.
A. Ryan Reynolds February 8, 2013 At 00:16

Praise the Lord and puff puff pass the ammunition.
Billy Wardlaw February 8, 2013 At 00:38

I have a money saving idea! Don’t regulate it!
- Greg February 8, 2013 At 07:16
  
  This.
Aaron February 8, 2013 At 08:40

Holy Jesus! How many more letters do the have to cram into that agency? The already have a silent E in there…
- Robert Farago February 8, 2013 At 08:43
  
  Don’t forget Really Big Fires. That’s another of their responsibilities.
  - Evan February 8, 2013 At 15:29
    
    So now it’s the BATFMe(RBF). Great
GS650G February 8, 2013 At 09:36

“I think all drugs should be legalized.”
Does that include Meth? Heroin? Bath Salts?
Libertarians tend to favor decriminalization of drugs for freedom reasons and reducing the legal costs to society. Would libertarians be willing to ante up money for the inevitable social costs that will result? A lot of people just want to smoke a little grass without any hassle from the fuzz but unfortunately it’s hard to place limits on something unlimited like drug legalization

I’d like to see how drug legalization would actually work and what steps would be taken to ensure we didn’t pay billions for the consequences as a result.

It would make for an interesting world in which those with their shit together could find jobs while the addicts withered away. Of course drugs would be taxed, not given away free, and the users would eventually need a way to buy more stuff. Hopefully we still would have firearms to dissuade them with.
- Robert Farago February 8, 2013 At 09:43
  
  What about the tens of billions we spend on the drug war right now? And the resulting militarization of the police? Isn’t that a social cost we’re already paying?
  - BlinkyPete February 8, 2013 At 13:01
    
    Not to mention the traditional social costs we’re already paying.
    
    Every. Single. Study on the matter has indicated with hard drugs treatment is always a better recourse than imprisonment. Taxes on said drugs could pay for these programs, giving the average person net savings, and likely the average drug user as well, since costs would go way down. With those costs down, robberies aimed and funding drug habits would also drop – no one robs anyone to buy booze or butts.
  - Evan February 8, 2013 At 15:34
    
    Not to mention the collapse of Mexico. And Chicago. And Newark. And Columbia. And just about every city or town in the country with a violent crime problem.
  - Carrymagnum February 8, 2013 At 17:44
    
    I find hard drugs affect anyone close to the user. Usually financially. And inevitably.
    For me, pills come to mind. I’ve had too many bad experiences with people getting addicted and stealing or borrowing from family and friends. Out of about 30 people (NH has a huge pill problem), only one of them I saw supporting their habit. The same gentlemen was also very well off. All the rest turned into thieving fiends.
    The only was I could see legalized drugs working is if the price of them was significantly(at least 60%) less. That would mean the government couldn’t stick their piggly little fingers into the profits.
- Henry Bowman February 8, 2013 At 12:57
  
  The prevelance of manufactured/synthetic alternative drugs correlates precisely with the ban on naturally occuring drugs. While natural drugs like cocaine, opium, and tobacco can be physically addictive, they are nowhere near as dangerous as meth, pcp, acid, bath salts, and most other pharmacuticals.
  
  However, one of the basic principle of libertarianism is self-ownership… meaning that an individual is free to put whatever he wants into his own body. The costs or benefits of an individual’s decisions are solely his burden.
Carrymagnum February 8, 2013 At 11:12

So Robert, how would marijuana use for into our gun laws? Do you feel users should be allowed to keep and bear arms?
My Name Is Bob February 8, 2013 At 12:00

How about legalize the private growing of it for personal use (tax free) and commercial use is taxed at the same rate as tobacco or alcohol, whichever is LOWER.