dros

Reader Matt writes:

I received a surprising notice from the city and attorney general today. I submitted my DROS at the gun store earlier this week, and this notice came very quickly. I can attest that whatever policy initiated the sending of such letters is new — as of the last four months — as my previous purchase didn’t lead to such a letter.

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72 COMMENTS

    • Honest question for you. When are you residents of the unconstitutional states going to become free American citizens again and join the rest of us in the Constitutional Republic of the United States? Proudly leaving the diseased liberal indoctrination at your failed states borders, since yall seem so comfortable to forfeit your personal security to the whim of self-interested elitists and state sponsored security.
      How many infringements on protected rights by fiat laws does it take before you surrender the tool responsible for protecting the founding principle of liberty. Liberty is endowed in all Americans, and enshrined through the Bill of Rights, which are not privileges granted by the state no matter what illegal laws pass. Kind of despicable that you residents are not as free as the citizens in a state next to you isn’t it, since we are a nation that is supposed to be fifty United States under constitutional rule.
      Eventually you residents will end up allowing the right to bare arms to be illegally restricted out of existence, which is the ultimate goal of the statists you allow determine, your ability to defend you and yours against evil men.

      • Because that’s what the founders of this great nation would have done. When faced with tyrannical oppression, they would have just packed up and gone somewhere else.

        Right?

        • Evil triumphs when good men do nothing, which our founding fathers enshrined to us in the Second Amendment.
          The founders of this great nation did leave a land of tyranny and declared war from their new land, only when taxed without representation and started a war for independence after an attempt to be disarmed by the ruling class.

        • They would have revolted, which I don’t see anyone in those states doing. Just stay there and don’t bring it to the rest of the country. I hate when someone from a freedom hating state retires here and then misses home so much they try to get laws passed that restrict my rights.

      • That sounds really awesome, until you consider that Washington state just passed a nasty universal background check law. Nevada is considering a UBC law that’s almost as bad. All of us are stuck with the same crappy anti-gun / anti-freedom POTUS and AG. Support gun rights everywhere.

        • I keep tellin ya, brah. Got plenty of room here for y’all and the dogs!
          Utah will stay free almost as long as Alaska. Unless we’re talking alcohol, of course.

        • I’m pretty convinced I-594 passed due to deliberate obfuscation by gun control supporters. Everyone I spoke to, some who own guns but I wouldn’t consider part of gun culture, didn’t think that requiring background checks for all sales was a bad thing; that is until I pointed out how ill-defined transfer is in the the bill. My two cents, the law requiring back ground checks for private sales isn’t going to go anywhere, however, I am confident that the pending lawsuits concerning the most egregious portions will be successful.

        • That explains why you are so comfortable on your knees in regards to giving away your individual liberties to the control of others.
          No one is saying you have to leave your state just organize and make your voice heard. Thug supporters and Liberal statist are marching in the streets over criminals rights, and you gun owners do nothing but concede constitutional rights.

      • I would love to move to Texas someday, but here is a counter arguement:
        As a resident of California, I get to encounter many people who’ve never shot a gun before. Sure hitting the bullseye with CZ 75’s and Tavors feel great, but teaching new shooters is a more satisfying experience. And first 50 rounds of 9mm is on me. In other words, I spend a lot of money here lol.
        This year I introduced 9 people to shooting. One of them was a fob Korean girl who was robbed at gunpoint in Downtown L.A. A week later she shot a gun (CZ 75) for the first time and enjoyed it.
        Hell that should be a New Year’s resolution for all of you:
        Introduce one newbie to shooting once per month.

        • Yet these ‘enlightened’ folk you describe will still happily stand by and watch everyone’s gun rights be diminished, not because it’s their choice, but because they will continue to vote for the Democrat progressive politicians who will legislate and enforce incrementally more restrictive gun ownership and use laws and restrictions at every turn.

          It’s nice to open non-gunners’ eyes but it’s ultimately not very meaningfully unless they evolve their overall political philosophy away from the liberal Democrat statist dependency mindset and toward one of self-ordained independence, self reliance, and freedom from government intrusion.

  2. That is seriously effed up.
    This is exactly why I like garage sales. I’ll even pay more than retail for something I really want, just because it’s undocumented.

    • Not in California. NO sales without a background check (all sales must be processed through an FFL), all guns must be registered if purchased after …sometime ago (I forget) for handguns, since January 1, 2014 for long guns. Persons moving to the state with firearms must file r a registration form within 60 days.

  4. I am willing to wager that the people taking the time to read these letters are not the ones the LAPD needs to worry about.

  5. One day, that misdemeanor they talk about for failing to get the proper government documentation to sell your gun will be made a felony. I wish I was wrong.

    • It’s already a felony if the magazine holds more than 10 rounds, documentation or not. Gun or not, actually.

  6. So wait, they are sending a semi threatening letter to people already following the law (vs a pamphlet on gun safety)… To remind them to follow the law, again. Here’s a question…. are they sending this to the registered drug dealers and gun thieves?

  7. Send them all back a letter reminding them to uphold their oath to the Constitution. Any official who fails to uphold their oath may be charged with treason.

    Too much?

    • I saw an estimate that over 50% of the guns held by (otherwise law-abiding) CA residents are not properly registered.

      I know here in WA, undocumented private party sales are continuing contrary to I-594.

      • I know a couple guys who moved to Commiefornia from non-ocupied portions of the U.S. who had unfortunate boating accidents.

    • one of these days, there is a distinct possibility that I may be charged with whatever is appropriate, for beating about the head and shoulders the next idiot who utters: “registration does not lead to confiscation”. To be fair I promise only green and earth friendly beating instruments, like rocks or sticks. No evil guns or anything like that, just natural, eco-friendly, renewable resources.

  11. That last line about making sure your gun does not fall into the wrong hands? I think that authorizes you to shoot first, ask questions later. “But Ossifer, I thought they were after my gun. I’m only making the city safer.”

  13. Passive aggressive threats…

    They could just as easily asked gun shops to offer pamphlets on LA/CA gun laws and yet they make a show of force by mailing them to everyone on the database.

    • THIS. Exactly this. That letter is no more than a big brother scare tactic, bureaucratic bullying. Its to show the lawfull dissenters against this inane, fantastical ideology, that they have been marked. Truly despicable for a government to resort to such childish tactics.

  16. Seriously guys, seriously, it’s not the guns. Never has been, it’s the nuts in politics …..the “folks” in power.

  17. So the State knows you own guns. Just wait until they come to take them.
    Registration leads to confiscation leads to termination.
    Get out while the getting is good.

  18. If you read the letter backwards it reminds the gun owners of LA that the government reserves the right to kick in your door without notice if anyone accuses you of dangerous activity. It then goes onto say Seasons Greetings! The Committee of Public Safety.

  19. The city of LA has been sending these out for years now, no new news. I have friends who have taken the letter to the range, used it for target practice, then mailed it back.

  21. Corrected version of the first paragraph:

    As you are aware, criminal violence is a serious problem within the City of Los Angeles and other large urban centers controlled by liberals across our country (conservative rural areas, not so much). Nationwide, thousands of people of various national origins, including teenagers, are killed or seriously injured by by criminals who have been arrested multiple times for various felonies and let out of prison. We blame law-abiding gun owners for this ongoing problem.

    Fixed that for ya.

    • sad but true, in rural CA, we just shoot ’em. Not many repeat offenders, cause in rural areas, the EMT is at LEAST 30m away. I remember once, first time in the area, coming across a fatal accident and the first responders was a local Volunteer fire dept, and they were on scene in only 40 minutes. EMTs and police had to drive 23 miles, and were on scene in 60 minutes.

  22. First, this is a LA County pilot program only, and its been around for a bit. Second, to buy a handgun in California, you have to have a “handgun safety certificate,” the pamphlet for which covers all of this stuff. (After the first of the year, we will have to have a “firearms safety certificate” to buy long guns, which includes a 20 question multiple choice test (as for the HSC), a fee of$25, and a “safe handling demonstration” by the purchaser of the firearm purchased. The FSC will be good for handguns and long guns (I think); the HSC will still be good for handguns, but not long guns, but no one really knows since the the State hasn’t issued the tests or pamphlets yet, and won’t until after the first of the year. So why the LASD has to send out this “reminder” is anyone’s guess; most read it as a veiled threat. So glad I don’t live in LA.

      • Or not recognize it.

        Actually the low-rank person who opens the letter probably would. If he/she is out and the boss opens the mail that day, probably not.

        Present company (Accur81) excepted of course.

  24. This has been going on for a few years actually, though it seems hard to pin down why Mark got one only recently and others two years ago. What was really disturbing was the letters sent after buy a longgun prior to 2014 (they were not registered in the purchase process until this year). So they still knew you bought a gun… despite the law requiring the DROS, etc to be destroyed…

    It is a passive aggressive way of annoying gun owners and reminding them they know what you have even when legally they shouldn’t have been able to.

    Now, on the other hand, I know cases where cops had no record of a gun bought before 1996 period. Even though handguns bought via dealers have been “registered” since 1923, it is only after 1996 that they have reliable records (as reliable as they can be said to be… the AFIS system may have the same gun registered to multiple owners…. especially after 1991)

    So even though my dad’s first gun was DROSed and he went through a 15 day waiting period (can you believe they voted to shorten that to 10 days?) it doesn’t show up in AFIS (we know this because we checked, after they didn’t even bother looking for it when we had them come to our house with a search warrant when I was younger… long story. They took my BSA knife as a “weapon” but missed my dad’s guns!).

    I think they are aware of even legal gaps in their records, and want to project omniscience.

    • (can you believe they voted to shorten that to 10 days?)

      Wow, and those gun nuts have the audacity to claim PRK politicians don’t support the second amendment!

      [/sarc, just in case it wasn’t obvious.]

  25. This letter is part of an experimental evaluation of a strategy for disrupting illegal gun markets being conducted by the RAND Corporation. I wrote about this recently on my Gun Culture 2.0 blog a few weeks ago (listing recent federal funding for research on firearms, assuming I cannot post links in the comments section here, so you can Google around to find references).

    Here is the description of the project (which received $399,000) on the National Institute of Justice website: “The purpose of this study is to assess the effectiveness and cost effectiveness of informative letters sent to handgun buyers in Los Angeles reminding them of their legal responsibilities as gun owners. This study will first provide a five year follow-up on participants of an experimental pilot letter program implemented between August 2007 and September 2008. In the pilot, buyers receiving letters were twice as likely to later report their gun stolen compared to those who received no letter. Efforts in follow-up will be directed toward assessing whether any of these guns were recovered. Second, a new experiment will involve 1,800 recent buyers with letters sent to only to those initiating handgun purchases on odd numbered days, thereby comparing rates of completed gun sales for a specified period of time for both those receiving and not receiving the letter. Third, the study will examine the effect of the letter across time comparing pre- and post-letter implementation periods for the city as a whole.”

    You can read about the original study in chapter 3 of the 2008 RAND Technical Report “Strategies for Disrupting Illegal Firearm Markets: A Case Study of Los Angeles.” Google for it if you’re interested.

    If I am not mistaken the initial evaluation found that those who received the letters were more likely to report when their guns were stolen than those who did not receive the letters, but there was no evidence (that I recall) that the letters disrupted illegal gun markets. But since many guns have been in circulation for many years before they end up being recovered at crime scenes, perhaps the time frame was just too short to show the effectiveness of this intervention?

    Also, FWIW, when I heard the researchers talking about this project they mentioned the low cost of the intervention (paper, envelope, printing, stamp) as a sort of “can’t hurt, might help” approach to cracking the illegal gun markets.

    Also, FWIW, there are other federally funded projects going right now seeking to understand how legally purchased guns make their way into the hands of criminals. If you’re interested, you can see the list on my blog if you Google for it. If I am able to post a link in comments here, let me know and I will post it myself.

    • Thanks, DavidY. Thats highly useful feedback, and more facts equals more truth about guns.
      I read your post about “the additional notes about NJIC…” and look forward to an update on results.

      https://gunculture2point0.wordpress.com/2014/11/30/additional-notes-on-national-institute-of-justice-working-group-on-firearms-and-violence/

      I wonder if you’d be interested in writing about some trends in crime reporting in CA that are emerging, post AB47.

      I’m curious about how what is reported, ie by LAPD vs FBI, and how metrics change, and what is not reported, and how to rationalize that.

      Some early indications from data, and cautions from Stanford Law Center are….interesting.

      An independent voice can validate the anecdotal ground truth, by guys like A81, and with Nick Leghorn interpreting and collecging stats and studies here at Facts About Guns, and highlighted John Lotts work, and others, there is a big need for layperson education, imho.

      Do you follow Stephen Greenhut, and City Journal, btw?

  27. Okay, great. Now, what about LAPDs and the AGs court-ordered legal responsibility to shall issue CCWs in a timely and forthright fashion?

    If these power mongering elitists want to get their pants sued off for Denial of Rights Under The Color of Law, then so be it.

    • I think y.ou can expect foot dragging, incompetence, and the usual excuses, on the part of the CA DOJ, per here…

      http://ia700803.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.caed.233362/gov.uscourts.caed.233362.123.0.pdf

      read page five, line fifteen for “the money shot” for the POTUS Prettiest State AG beg for time, delivered by Judge Ishii, who had previously declared her 10 day waiting period unconstitutional under 2A.

      tl;dr: b1tchSLAP! ooh, that left a mark….

      • Good link. That waiting period statute was just another example of bureaucratic malfeasance disgusted as bureaucratic incompetence.

        Hopefully, the next step is stripping sovereign immunity on the Peruta mandate. Then, the agents of the state will remain exactly as incompetent as the size of their net worth.

  29. Can confirm that this happens every pistol I purchase. I assume Ill get one for every rifle now that they register those too.

  31. Re: Peruta, updates for your Christmas reading pleasure here,

    including Dec 24th deadline for both parties response to secret judge sua sponte,
    and Dec 24th deadline for lame whiny amici briefs for denial of intervention,
    dual tracked here:

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=893452. official updates “sticky” thread

    and scroll down for the unofficial “speculation” thread

    (tl;dr okay, more like lumps of coal than sweets in your stocking….blame it on Judge Thomas!)

  32. To forgo registration, enabling confiscation, might I suggest you consider alternative methods of purchase?

    Hey, just a concerned WA State resident living under infringement of 2A.

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