By Brian Conmy
Gun rights supporters are about to be dealt a serious blow in California. I know most of you are thinking “what else is new” and unfortunately, so am I. The sad fact remains that whether Governor Jerry Brown decides to sign the current batch of gun control bills sitting on his desk or let them simply become law by not touching them, those laws will have far-reaching consequences for all Americans. We live in a time where civil rights advocates have seen staggering accomplishments for their narrowly-focused efforts, while at the same time, other rights and freedoms that fall outside the scope of these advocates are continually infringed upon at both the state and national levels . . .
For those who were around during the Cold War and the many hot spots of the efforts to oppose Communism, the Domino Theory should sound vaguely familiar to you. Maybe during the Korean or Vietnam Wars you heard the President or some young soldier talk about why the United States had to fight the war on foreign soil so that the war would stay on foreign soil. While the merits of the wars themselves are continually debated by any and everyone with an opinion, the facts remain that there is still a de facto state of war that exists between the two Koreas and South Vietnam wasn’t the only nation in Indochina to fall to Communism after the complete US withdrawal in 1975.
The People of the Gun have been very successful in the past decade by continually expanding individual firearms ownership and carry rights. These efforts, in no small part, relied heavily on a litany of Supreme Court cases that tipped in the favor of gun rights advocates by the slimmest of margins. Even more ominous are the civilian disarmament laws being passed in the wake of horrific tragedies. These new laws, most passed without the normal legal procedural processes normally associated with such legislation, are an affront to all of our Constitutionally-protected rights and are not limited to infringements on the 2nd Amendment.
By completely writing off California (and New York and New Jersey and Maryland) as a lost cause, we are not helping our efforts. While I agree that California is nowhere near firearms friendly, by packing it up and saying “it’s over”, we give the opposition the foothold they need to push their agenda on the rest of the country.
We already know that the majority of gun control laws introduced at the federal level start in one of the above-mentioned states as state laws. We also know that most gun control advocates cite lax laws and poor regulation in adjacent states as the reason for the failure of their beloved civilian disarmament ideals. Look at Colorado and even parts of my state, Arizona. Californians are leaving their state and moving into states with better tax laws. When they get to those states they then try to implement many of the exact same laws that drove them out of their former home. The more Californians who move out of California and into traditionally gun-friendly states, the harder it is to fight them on such a vast landscape. No, the place to fight is in California where the majority of the federal pro-slave staters reside.
We aren’t in a shooting war with the other side, as was the case in the aforementioned wars, but make no mistake that the Domino Theory is very relevant in this war over ideals and legislation, even more so than during the Cold War. While we do have limited financial resources and we must pick our battles carefully, we must also think of the $5 or $10 that can be given to gun rights organizations in California as, to quote President Eisenhower, “the cheapest way that we can prevent the occurrence of something of the most terrible significance” which would be California state gun laws at the federal level.
It’s much easier to convince a generation of citizens that a right is antiquated or unnecessary when those being indoctrinated have never experienced that right themselves. We must all recognize that there will never be a day when you pull up TTAG and see a story entitled “Gun Control Defeated… Forever”. We are fighting a war of ideological attrition and conversion. This war can never fully be won by either side, but the battles must be continually fought at every location where the opposing view rears its oppressive head and speaks with its forked tyrannical tongue.
We must all recognize that there will never be a day when you pull up TTAG and see a story entitled “Gun Control Defeated… Forever”
– No, because there will always be another tyrant waiting in the wings to take advantage of a lack of vigilance.
“fight the war on foreign soil so that the war would stay on foreign soil”
California is that foreign soil to many of us.
Good analogy.
What “gun rights” group is worth a damn? Certainly not calguns. They have lost in the courts time after time after time. They have thrown Charles Nichols under the bus. Charles Nichols federal lawsuit is one of the best out there for California.
Last I heard, Nichols got tossed to the curb by the court, which was not surprising given the absolute lack of legal merit to his pleadings. Nichols vs. Brown, right? Nichols is one of those guys about whom you say “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.” Given your moniker, I am not surprised of your support of this fool–and would not be surprised if you two were one and the same.
That’s because you are a moron Mark N and your butt herpes have migrated to your brain.
Have you even bothered to read Attorney General Harris’ answering brief? She does not even attempt to defend five of the ten issues I raised on appeal and her brief is almost entirely devoted to making procedural arguments that do not apply to fundamental rights cases.
She tries to conflate concealed carry, which all 9 justices said could be banned in the Heller decision, with Open Carry. Open Carry is the right guaranteed by the Constitution according to Heller. The AG tried to paint the Moore v. Madigan decision out of the 7th Circuit as an anomaly. Eight days after she filed her brief the Illinois Supreme Court unanimously affirmed the Moore decision.
If you weren’t some fecal throwing troll you might have noticed that the two laws struck down by the 7th Circuit are identically worded to California’s bans. And even the Attorney General in her answering brief admitted that the California laws are bans, not regulations. No ban on a fundamental right will survive a court challenge.
http://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org
“Open Carry is the right guaranteed by the Constitution according to Heller.”
Oh boy…
FLAME DELETED “Likewise, in State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann. 489, 490 (1850), the Louisiana Supreme Court held that citizens had a right to carry arms openly: “This is the right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, and which is calculated to incite men to a manly and noble defence of themselves, if necessary, and of their country, without any tendency to secret advantages and unmanly assassinations.”” District of Columbia v. Heller, 128 S. Ct. 2783 – Supreme Court (2008) at 2809.
http://CaliforniaRightToCarry.org
Look up “dicta” and get back to me. Maybe you and Embody can team up – that would be both entertaining and hilarious to watch.
Oh Sparky, if that is your real name, every Federal Court of Appeals has relied on those two citations to knock down the concealed carry lawsuits and the US Supreme Court has not granted cert in a concealed carry case, ever.
Nunn v. State was cited in a 1924 California Supreme Court decision which upheld a conviction for concealed carry and has been cited directly or indirectly ever since in upholding convictions for concealed carry.
Your opinion does not matter. It is the opinion of the Federal Courts of Appeal which matters and they have been unanimous in calling you a moron.
I can see by your irrational response why you continue to fail. Get some help before it’s too late.
What’s the matter Sparky? You get hit in the face with facts and have nothing of substance to return? What kind of name is “Sparky” anyhow? Is that your professional rent-boy name?
“What “gun rights” group is worth a damn? Certainly not calguns.”
Long(ish) time member of CGF/CGN, CRPA, 2AF, and CCRTKBA here…
CalGuns does a lot of work here, most of which I have to agree, is unsuccessful. CRPA for the most part, and correct me if I’m wrong, is much to quiet, and hardly shows it’s face when we need them. Right now they’re focused on suing the AG for delayed DROS’. Whoop deee doo… How about the fact it takes 10 days to even buy a damn gun. Stupid, especially considering the fact you could provide proof that you already own several firearms, so waiting 10 days to “cool down” (because all gun buyers are looking to tool up for a rampage, right?).
I could go on and on about California, but I’ll sum it up.
– California is expensive to live in.
– California is much to “liberal” with just about everything. (to use a RW phrase for “filled with pussies/hippies/agoraphobes/prius drivers/granola-eaters”)
– California is not gun friendly, and I don’t ever see it being the opposite.
– California’s rent is to damn high.
– California honey badger makes the laws it wants to make.
– California is BLUE
– California has a list of guns it deems unsafe for use/sale, only if a manufacturer doesn’t pays a hefty fee, per model, per color, per version, and re tools to accommodate this “mythical magazine safety.” Still haven’t owned/used a pistol that uses this. Oh wait… the M&P, but thats easy to remove, and don’t forget about single-shot sleds.
– California just plain old sucks when it comes to being a gun owner.
– I ‘m repeating myself…
I would love to leave, but the work, weather, and women, are hard to pass up. I wouldn’t make as much in some Kentucky BFE outpost, or the barren wastelands of Nevada, New Mexico, or Arizona.
Whatever laws they pass, good luck enforcing them.
“I would love to leave, but the work, weather, and women, are hard to pass up. I wouldn’t make as much in some Kentucky BFE outpost, or the barren wastelands of Nevada, New Mexico, or Arizona.”
I moved out of CA – Monterey area – about a year ago to New Mexico.
oots-better-than-I-do, just-got-married bride came with me.
I’m making around 5% more here, and without CA taxes and prices, that goes a LOT farther in the Land of Enchantment than it did in the Golden State.
Yes it’s less humid here in the Jemez mountains, and we occasionally get snow. But I grew up in the Northeast. I know what lousy weather is and, honestly, I’d call this one a draw.
So … Where’s the downside, again?
I know – not everyone gets this lucky. But honestly, California really isn’t all that and a bag of chips. The state really needs to just get over itself.
I live in KY and i bet my paycheck goes farther than yours mine pays all my bills puts gas in the car or truck (whichever one needs it) and takes me and my girlfriend to dinner on top of paying rent. It’s not just pay rate you look at it’s taxes and cost of living as well man I can afford to drive dinosaurs on a lil over 9 dollars an hour.
Dude, come to Northern Florida. Similar sunshine, Beaches galore (OK, surfing the Atlantic is not as fun as surfing the Pacific). You’ll make the defacto same amount or better, because Florida has NO INCOME TAX. And it’s not going to get one, either, since instituting one would require an actual amendment to the State Constitution, which, after the “Pig Amendment” got a lot tougher to do, and requires the people, not the legislature, agree to it… In addition, land values are cheaper, the cost of living is better, and, if you stay out of the Miami-Ft.Pierce axis, you don’t generally need to learn Spanish if you don’t want. We don’t (yet) have OC, but CC-wise, FL is a “shall issue” state.
About the only option you lose in FL v Cali is snow skiing.
“They have lost in the courts time after time after time.”
Hey, that kinda sounds like what happened to that Kwikrnu fella. You ever heard of him??
Unfortunately the court process is extremely slow.
Perhaps it would be quicker to convince the fence sitters and others with no strong feelings on the issue by giving away a few memberships to the NRA. A few months of “America’s First Freedom” coming to the mailbox will at least get these folks thinking about what they’re losing. The ballot box is quicker than the courts. Better to not need to go to court than to go to court and win. Especially when it’s not certain that you’re going to win.
Sounds like a good opportunity to use some “data mining” to determine who the California fence sitters are, send out an America’s First Freedom issue without the scary black guns on the cover and follow that up with a “remember” to vote cause it still kind of matters in California (its possible to flip a D to a R in the US House).
The NRA should collect data now with questionnaires.
Do you like Starbucks? Yes = No magazine, no reminder to vote.
Did your Parent or Grandparent own a gun? Yes = Send magazine, send reminder to vote.
Have you been living off the government for the last 10 years? Yes = No magazine, no reminder to vote
…and so on.
That last question (not about guns) is relevant because these folks may not care about guns but they sure value their free phones a lot more than your right to defense.
The subscriptions will go farther and to those that are reachable.
You could still send a reminder to vote to everyone else. Tell them election day moved to Wednesday due to weather.
Excellent idea.well done, we have to get creative. Taking a neighbor would help a lot as well. Free days at the range for a friend.
I keep hearing that we can’t write Kalifornia off over and over and it continually gets worse. The fact is, the state government has too many bloated liberal tyrants that are too entrenched with too large a base. Short of armed insurrection, this will never change because the state has too many nanny state liberal drone voters and masses of entitlement program fed democratic voters propping them up. At what point do you cut the infected limb loose and shore up what you have left?
Bingo.
Drop Kalifornia into the ocean.
Lex Luthor’ s idea isn’t sounding so bad 35 years later.
California is a lost cause. And I say that as a native-born resident (inmate?) of 27 years.
Some parts of the state are still mostly populated by mostly sane, rational people; Redding, Shasta, parts of the central valley, etc. Unfortunately, the only parts of the state that count from a political standpoint are the SF bay area and LA, and we know what the political climate in those areas is like.
And it’s getting worse; I’ve lived in the San Jose area my entire life, and it’s worse now than it’s ever been-certainly than it’s ever been within my lifetime. Nobody around here is capable of minding their own business, and everything is turned into a social engineering project. I’m paying five figures a year in property taxes to have my city council tell me that I’m not allowed to have plastic bags because, evidently, I can’t be trusted with them. They want everyone to use reusable bags for their shopping. Screw that. I refuse to carry a bunch of reusable bags in my car or keep them in my closet. I’ll pay for paper.
Anyhow. At this point the best thing to do is write CA off. Fighting it is a waste of resources; it’s a time and money sink that’s not going to pay off anytime soon, if ever. The time and money spent trying to change things here would be put to better use trying to keep California’s particular brand of idiocy contained to California. For my part, I’m hoping to be out within 5 years. I’m done.
While an intentional event may be a tragedy for those involved, wouldn’t we be better, from a journalistic stand-point, to refer to these incidents as “massacres” or some other term that appears a little less passive?
Tragedy brings visions of earthquakes or tsunamis or volcanoes or floods. These shootings were not and never will be natural catastrophes and perhaps we should emphasize that point?
You can’t win a war without troops on the ground. I’m sure not volunteering to move to California to fight that fight either.
Move, no. Occasionally occupy, maybe. Just a few hundred of us every week, handing out literature and NRA membership forms while being on our best behaviour. We’ve got to ‘win the hearts’ of the native Californians.
I live in California and I will volunteer to fight that fight if the time comes to help save the rest. California is not lost with enough people like me ready to defend your freedoms by any means possible.
A liberal “civil rights advocate” is someone who wants limitations placed on every item in the Bill of Rights.
– All speech but their own is labeled “hate speech”, and serious consequences will follow. (1st Amendment)
– Citizens have no right to defend themselves. That authority belongs exclusively to government. (2nd Amendment)
– The NSA should keeps tabs on all Americans “just in case” someone requires government protection from one of their fellow citizens. (4th Amendment)
– All citizens are obligated to “pay their fair share” of their neighbor’s health care bills, despite their neighbor’s habit of drug abuse, prostitution, and ‘other’ intentionally reckless behavior. (5th Amendment)
You forgot about the 3rd Amendment. Instead of British redcoats, we have the pigs in blue.
One issue with court cases in CA are the state courts in CA are packed with liberal judges from decades of liberal governors. Then at the federal level, those judges are liberal thanks to Feinstein and Boxer and the 9th circuit court of appeals is very liberal. So nearly every case from CA would need to go to the supreme court to get a fair ruling on gun rights.
Yet another reason to win this from the ballot box. It’s not going to happen unless we educate, inform and enlighten people. Especially young people.
As a former Californian who did exactly what you describe above, I have to say that I personally can’t disagree more with your premise. I left CA because I want to own a business someday. I own guns today. I have to keep enough of my paycheck to live on. These are the main reasons I left and I chose a state (Texas) that embraces a fiscal plan that is sustainable long-term and respects an individual’s right to liberty. Please know that many of the Californians who leave that state, do so at great personal sacrifice. Our families think we are crazy. They email us job postings to try to get us back there. But we know that long term we wouldn’t just be losing our right to keep and bear firearms. We know that we would be giving an ever-expanding percentage of our paycheck to a state hell-bent on giving that money away to all manner of terrible, ineffective and ridiculous social programs.
I left California and took my NRA card and my work ethic and my money with me. I will not stand by and get railroaded by un-impeachable politicians who will take as much of my paycheck as they can, use it to infringe on my liberty and ultimately destroy the state. California liberals are playing the same tune they have for many years now. Their base is too large to be defeated with the vote. They control enough of the legislature that they will ram laws through faster than they can be overturned in the courts. And the kicker is that the taxpayer gives a chunk of their money to the state to pass these laws and then spend the remaining money so that Calguns (et al) can afford to fight the same laws in the courts for years (which are very often adjudicated by liberal judges). You’ll pardon us for thinking that CA is “lost” to us. I believe those who join me in leaving realize that we are looking for a place where personal liberty is respected.
“I believe those who join me in leaving realize that we are looking for a place where personal liberty is respected.”
I agree with your first paragraph completely, but I think you’re being overly generous and more than a little optimistic with that conclusion.
Consider is that a good percentage of the people leaving California are likely to be progressives themselves; typically it’s people from the bay area or LA that are looking to move to someplace with a lower cost of living. Things like personal freedoms and gun rights don’t necessarily enter the equation for a lot of them, they just want to live somewhere where they can afford a house and that’s basically where their thought process begins and ends. Sure, there are people like you who do it for, shall we say, a more complex set of reasons. But I think a lot of them simply want to be able to move their family into a decent sized home, and they don’t really think any further than that.
Also remember that, as a species, humans tend to have a great deal of difficulty with things like critical thinking and understanding cause and effect when the effect is a few steps and some fair amount of time removed from the effect. And the current education system-be it private or public-typically does little to nothing to teach people *how* to think (as opposed to *what* to think, which is all most people are taught anymore).
Mix those two together and you end up with a bunch of people who move to places that don’t have all of California’s problems, and then try to do exactly what they did to California all over again. Ultimately they don’t know any better; they are, in fact, literally THAT stupid.
There are absolutely people like you who leave because they’re trying to get away from all of that stuff, but ex-pat Californians as a whole have a pretty decent track record of crapping all over the areas they choose to relocate to-albeit to varying degrees of success. Which is why, when I’m finally able to abandon this godforsaken state I may just have to tell people I’m from Oregon or something. It’d save me a lot of embarrassment.
In short the grass is greener on the other side cause you have yet to stomp piss and shit all over it
There is still nobody that will take the time to explain in great, logical, unbiased detail how one state’s legislation affects another state’s laws. Seriously, what’s the correlation? Where is the rock solid proof that laws in California or New York are valid in Missouri? I don’t get it.
Wow. This will be the second time I’ve had to explain this today.
20 years ago it was “As California goes, so goes the nation”.
Now, other states are looking at California as what NOT to do. Other states use NY as an example of what they promise NOT to do when their politicians run for election.
The only people who have to worry are those living in blue states or states that lean blue. You can bet the politicos in those states are thinking “Hey, Cali pulled it off! Why not here?”
It is correct that we should pull together and at the Federal level there have been some victories. However, a bunch of Texas residents cannot change the political fortunes of NY or Cali. Sure, I know people who donated to the Colorado recall campaign but ultimately the voters have to decide. The residents of the state make the call.
I am not the least bit worried about Cali or NY gun law becoming the norm in Texas. If anything, our lack of open carry is coming under scrutiny and they just halved the education requirement and cost for obtaining a CHL. Some of the restrictions around CC are being lifted as well.
Everyone keeps saying “Your state is next!” I doubt it. NY and Cali don’t have the influence they once did. All a lot of us see are states that have succumbed to liberal policies and now use them as a cautionary tale.
1. Gun-grabbing politicians win state offices and pass gun-control laws.
2. Gun control becomes the norm in these states.
3. People elect gun-grabbing politicians to represent them in DC.
4. Enough of the politicians head to Washington to pass a new Assault Weapons Ban.
Simple enough?
Still won’t happen. CARB laws are a good example of this. The automobile laws took effect in 1966. Federal laws started a few years after that. Using your example every state would require emissions testing. In truth most states have no emission testing of any kind.
If the inverse held true then no state should have any gun bans after the passage of the Federal AWB.
One can only assume that guns and care emissions are slightly different.
You still don’t get it, do you?
If you were to list states that have laws more stringent than federal regarding car emissions and those that are anti-gun you would see the same states on both lists. The reasons liberals want them banned follow many of the same of the same reasons they want guns banned IE they don’t understand why someone would want one and seek to ban what they don’t think others should have. They even use the same, “It’s for the children” tag lines.These laws have even been in place for close to the same amount of time (late 1960s). That is proof enough we don’t want them here. I have absolutely no concern that these “California” type laws will ever be passed in Nebraska. They won’t & the track record of our representatives (both state & federal) prove this. The only way they will ever be legally binding will be if they are passed on the federal level.
My original post was about them sending representatives to DC to pass a new AWB. Yes, that CAN effect you. It already has.
But California’s DC delegation is already almost completely liberal gun-grabber shitheads. It’s not possible for California to offer up a lot more gun-grabbin’ at the federal level than they already do, so wouldn’t our resources be better spent shoring up support in more “winnable” areas?
If enough liberty-minded folk leave California, their federal influence decreases. If the state’s population decreases enough, when the next census comes around, they’ll lose reps in the House. Seems like the best way to derail this theoretical domino effect is for all nine million gun owners to bail on Cali, not for the rest of us to dump resources into a losing battle to reverse decades of bad-to-worse policies in that state.
It could be argued that allowing California to go full retard (with the accompanying rise in violent crime) would stand as a shining example of the failure of gun control, and encourage other states to increase, not decrease, firearms freedom.
Anonymous …
My take on how “how one state’s legislation affects another state’s laws”
Contagion through migration. A few examples might be:
1) Resident A flees California because of the horrible tax or business situation here and ends up in Texas. He or she may then have their first experience with people carrying guns and their response is “OMG we have to get rid of all these guns!” And she tries to pass laws to get rid of Law Abiding Citizens legally carrying guns by trying to make it illegal to carry a gun (and eventually to even own a gun.)
2) Resident B escapes California because of its repressive anti-gun and or hunting laws and finds him or herself in Montana with great hunting but fewer welfare opportunities or too many graveled roads. He then tries to pass laws calling for more social services and paved roads not thinking that will raise the taxes. The very thing he left California because of.
3) Resident C knows that to get those sane California laws passed nationwide they are going to have to do it state by state. He or she and a few of their socialist anti-gun loving friends move from state to state trying to change the local perceptions and laws to something they know is better for everyone (but the locals just don’t know it yet.) They may even get training for this from their progressive party of choice or New World Order benefactor. In extreme cases they may act as “Agents provocateur” to cause an incident that would force the local population forward toward change.
Constitution 2.0 better have a secession provision that’s not only making it easier for states to secede, but gives the states the power to expel a rogue state from the union. California would be out already,and everybody moving out would either be illegal and unable to vote, or have to pass a citizenship test.
This is not going to end well, but considering the kind of people we are dealing with, the situation they created is going to clean them off this world anyway. Democracy is a dismal failure and I don’t care how many underpaid mercenaries (soldiers) we think died for it, democracy has to go. It failed.
Ifdemocracy were to be wiped out so we could start over, what would you replace it with?
Ing…
“Ifdemocracy were to be wiped out so we could start over, what would you replace it with?”
A “Constitutional Republic” that is what the Founding Fathers put in place and it worked well for a long time.
I’m glad this article is up here, because I hate when people tell me to move from where I am just because its hard for me to get a carry permit and I can’t own NFA items. If I stay and try to convince other people to get involved, maybe I can make the situation better.
Isolate them, get they should fine without guns to protect them(sarcasm)
And by the way, CA anti gun politicians: stay the F*ck away from Arizona, you have your own communist republic of CA to ruin, you stay there. We’ll send you McCain if you like.
+1000
As a fellow Arizonan I will ante up the postage for the overnight shipment
Under my regime, California will be sold back to Mexico. Population included. No haggling.
This just in coming from SF: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Muni-slaying-suspect-had-cache-of-guns-police-say-4847478.php
It’s going to be a tough tough year for us Californians. If you are in CA and you value your rights, vote these people out of office! Send in your letters to Gov. Brown and ask him to veto these new bills!
The cache was two “assault rifles” and some combat knives. Presumably he had a handgun too to shoot his victim.
We didn’t give up on California. California gave up on California. Californians decided on the world they wanted. Nobody put a gun to their head and made California voters sell out the Constitution, themselves and the rest of the Republic. That was their choice. Apparently, it’s working out for them, because they do it again and again.
You’re on the money, Ralph. To butcher a braveheart quote, California’s problem is that its full of Californians. Its even full of gun-owning Californians. The problem is a painful majority of these are just like your average resident: too damn lazy and complacent to challenge the status quo.
I will continue to support the “good” CA gun owners as best I can, by donating, offering solidarity, and hoping they move. As for the rest, hell with them. If you can’t be bothered to fight for your own rights, why should anyone fight for you?
I wish I could do something – I live here and no matter what I do – who I talk to – who I call – how much money I give – the people in LA and SF (and surrounding burbs) are too numerous.
We just can’t overcome without a major cultural change.
Or one really good quake.
I disagree. California going full retard is not going to kick off the dominoes. Let me also suggest that later research has suggested that the commie domino effect concept was flawed as well.
Point is that people are going to seek like minded fellows. What will more likely happen if states like CA, NY, MA, CT, etc, go all out ban minded, demographics will slowly change. Those in favor of gun control will gravitate to those states while those opposed will leave. Eventually we will have pro gun and anti gun states and people will vote with their feet.
Also, its not true that federal initiatives come out of the states. The 1994 AWB was purely Federal as was the 1986 Hughes amendment and the 1934 NFA. The various state AWBs were implemented after the Federal one, particulary in anti-gun states such as MA when it became clear that the Federal one was not going to be renewed.
I’m sorry, but CA is a lost cause. It really sucks for CA gin owners, but way too many of your fellow state residents don’t like guns. I’ll talk more about this subject in an upcoming post, but for now, I’ll say that gun poitics in a community will represent the prevailing view of the majority of the residents. The majority of the residents of CA are anti gun, so that is how it’s going to come down. I’d rather see the NRA spend my donation money on states where there is still an active debate between citizens going on.
You’re wrong, the state AWB’s in New Jersey (1990) and California (1989) pre-dated the 1994 Federal AWB. The AWB’s in New York and Connecticut were passed in 1993.
The test case needs to follow the rationale of Saenz v. Roe — a right to travel case — and the cases cited there.
The Court cited cases that “held that a classification that had the effect of imposing a penalty on the exercise of the right to travel violated the Equal Protection Clause “unless shown to be necessary to promote a compelling governmental interest,””
Saenz v. Roe, 526 US 489, 501 (1999).
It was the right to go from one place to another, including the right to cross state borders while en route, that was vindicated in Edwards v. California, 314 U. S. 160 (1941), which invalidated a state law that impeded the free interstate passage of the indigent. We reaffirmed that right in United States v. Guest, 383 U. S. 745 (1966), which afforded protection to the “`right to travel freely to and from the State of Georgia and to use highway facilities and other 501*501 instrumentalities of interstate commerce within the State of Georgia.’ ” Id., at 757.”
Saenz v. Roe, 526 US 489, 501 (1999).
A requirement that a resident of Nevada in lawful possession of a pistol with a magazine holding fifteen rounds must disarm himself or be arrested for a crime upon entering California for carrying for purposes of his own defense — is in plain violation of the right to travel, and of McDonald.
Making oneself defenseless as a condition of entry cannot possibly be deemed anything other than a severe impediment to freedom of movement. A permit regime cannot possibly be accessed by out of state residents in anything like a reasonable time for most forms of travel. This can be said even of more gun-friendly states like Florida, where open carry is outlawed and only permitted concealed carry is allowed — though out of state residents have equal access to permits of carry here, and the reciprocity is fairly broad.
California might think twice if a court were to hold that non-residents are entitled to be better armed than its own citizens.
Here’s the problem.
It is not the responsibility of the other 49 states to dictate how California should enact their own laws.Much as it greatly displeases me to see California in this state,I still remember that at the end of the day,California’s politicians were freely selected by the majority of it’s citizens in lawful elections.As such,the anti gun polices passed in California and other states are the will of it’s population.That sucks,but it’s no less true.
To “fix” California and other anti gun states,we need to modify their cultures to a pro-gun orientation.That will take time and no small amount of judicial persuasion.Meanwhile,the California gun owner has three options:the jail,the furnace,or the Uhaul truck.And he has his neighbors to blame,not the NRA or us non-resident gun owners.
The will of *most* Californians. Not all. They didn’t all vote for that garbage, and those who tried to do the right thing don’t deserve to be stomped on by the mindless majority.
Whether we should be expending energy on a state with a supermajority so set against us is a different question. I feel sorry for the people in California who do get it and are struggling to keep their rights intact, but I have limited time and virtually no resources, and I have to take care of my own home front first.
We’ve got plenty of our own brushfires burning in Illinois.
California is on their own.
While I wouldn’t necessarily give up on California, I do think it is time for Cali residents to endure some tough love. The citizenry and its legislature have decided the way they want to go. Now they will have to live with the consequences of those choices which will include increases in crime, continued economic stagnation or recession, and eventual bankruptcy because the feds can’t find enough money for the bailout. For the rest of us, we need to continually point out these negative effects and keep telling people why they happened due to the liberal decisions made by Cali residents. I don’t want to be ghoulish, but I will take some schaudenfreude when the negative effects happen.
A recent Harvard University study found that gun bans don’t lower the murder rate. That hasn’t prevented the California Legislature from drawing up a crop of new gun-control laws. I have no sympathy for CA, the voters there have spoken. If the majority of the state wants less restrictive gun laws, then they need to ensure that their concerns are reflected in who they elect. Whoever thought that Jerry Brown was Pro-Gun has been hitting the medicinal pot or bottle too much.
If 2nd Amendment rights continue to crumble in CA (and the rest of America) no other rights will matter. The citizens of CA must act. We keep hearing the rhetoric that they are only taking guns from the bad guys in CA,and every day we read stories that are quite contrary to government propaganda.
I donated $50 to the FPC and have been active in a college gun club. I’m hoping for the best, or a little less than the worst; but fully expect the situation to not swing the right way for me. I am having a hard enough time doing what I can about this and trying to keep up my grades in my engineering classes that are full of lazy professors. I’ll probably swing by my local gunshop and grab that 10/22 I’ve been eyeing for a week now.
Even with the orgy of disinformation put out by the totalitarian prestitute MSM over Sandy Houck, many states saw improvements this year. Even anti carry Texas neocons have realized they have no right to bear arms, just a privilege to carry concealed. There was a minor victory in Illinois, full open carry restored by law in MS, constitutional carry in Arkansas, and major restrictions lifted in North Carolina effective 10/1. I’d say a pretty ok year given Ca and NY, CT, etc were already uninhabitable.
You are all missing the point and the problem. It’s not about California. It’s about, generally speaking, rural v. urban values. In California, most of the population lives in large cities. Those folks vote for liberal gun control representatives. Everyone living outside the urban centers end up with so few representatives that their voices are never heard. Think this isn’t your problem. Look at Colorado. It’s going the same way despite the success of the recall elections. If you don’t think you will have the same issues in your state at some point, you are living in a fantasy world.
I laugh at this idea of California gun control spreading across the country.
The Democrat controlled Senate voted down additional gun laws after a horrific school shooting.
The citizens of Colorado have successfully thrown out two of the reps responsible for their gun control laws.
Meanwhile, New York ,Maryland,and now California are speeding in the other direction.You guys all made your electoral beds,and it’s time to lie in it.Where are the recall petitions?Where are the public protests in Sacramento?
Why is it that the gay rights people stood up ,and yet gun owners in CA stand mute ?
not really sure i understand the default “you guys made your bed” argument. living in MD, i don’t vote for anti-gun politicians. i donate to groups that fight for my gun rights. i do what i can to educate others. we had the public protests for this year’s legislation and we don’t have the recall option. but i made my legislative bed?
This is something to worry about.
Washington and Oregon have the same kind of divide, with the cities and suburbs on the west coast balanced against the wide-open, rural Inland Northwest. Less than 25% of the land area contains well over half the population.
Liberals do outnumber conservatives, especially on the west side, but so far the progressives haven’t erased the live-and-let-live attitude that generally defines the NW…but they’re making inroads.
California is to be abandoned? OK. I own no assualt weapons and already endure universal back ground checks. When these laws are pushed at the federal level again, and they will be, I will contribute no money, time or effort to fight them.
I encourage all 8-9 million california gun owners to do the same. When a federal level pol proclaims that california gets along just fine with 10 round mags and bullet buttons I will not speak against them.
+1
Give it a few years, you’ll be reading comments about “Colorado is hopeless” and “Carolina gun owners should just leave the state”. How quickly people forget that concealed carry used to be illegal in Illinois, Florida and even Texas.
Just as well,since any Federal push for more infringements will be championed by a California Federal Rep.
As to the idea that urban Liberals will somehow crush us rural bumkins to dust, Chicago stands as proof of the fallacy of that theory.Sure, a city of Moonbats might dominate the politics of a state-but even the moonbats must obey the judiciary.Like it or not,the 2nd Amendment is law and will remain so for the lifetimes of anyone reading this.
No, California’s problem is Sacramento, San Fransisco and the greater Los Angeles area.
I’m from Humboldt county. Sacramento sure as hell doesn’t speak for me. They don’t speak for most of the far north part of the state.
Don’t go lumping us all in to that liberal swinepool.
Well I lived up in Humboldt too for a while, the fact is that it does not really matter what you think. Everyone down south of Marin County runs the show and any representatives you have will simply kowtow to the party line. You don’t have a voice.
Well since I am on the front lines, let’s give you a quick updated report.
First off I don’t think Governor Brown will let this simply go into law. He is up for re-election and will face off with Tim Donnelly, and possibly Kamala Harris, the current AG. By not signing it he looks week lacking leadership. By signing it he will kick off a recall push. While mostly symbolic it will unite the people to get him out of office.
He could very well veto most if not all the legislation currently on his desk. They can bring stuff back up next year, introduce new bills etc. He would then potentially grab some fence sitters, who would normally vote for someone else.
November we have a hearing for the micro stamping, and safe gun registry extortion. If the list is thrown out, which is what we hope it also means AB 500 goes with it.
Or,he solidifies support from the urban elites and ethnic masses in Los Angeles /San Fransisco by signing these “common sense gun laws”,or at least standing aside as the veto window expires.
That’s an even better outcome-if things go south and a backlash kicks off,Brown can legally say he didnt sign those bills and point fingers at the legislature.
A better question is, how many seats are you guys able to win in each house as to cut down on their super majority? Can gun owners make their way into the redistricting committees and have influence in that area?
Not sure what winning the governors seat would do if bills that are vetoed can be over ridden. There must be a lot of democrats with vulnerable seats especially in areas where the budgets has gone to hell. You do not have to fight solely on gun rights. You can attract many on other things like water rights.
Agreed. What we need is “crowdsourcing” (Google it). I saw it work brilliantly in another website during the time leading to the Zimmerman trial.
Most all politicians have skeletons in the closet. It’s just a matter of time, money and research and you can find them. Once exposed it becomes much easier to change public opinion about them and get them ousted, either at the booth or through a recall. The FOIA is a very powerful tool.
We will be supporting on various platforms. We might get change, we might fail, but to simply not try is tantamount to treason in my mind.
The biggest thing that would put a major hurting on California would be for the entire gun industry to stop putting profits above principles and cut off all sales and service to their government agencies.No ammo sales either. Over time that would prove devastating to their jackbooted goons and to the political establishment. Secondly, a campaign of massive non violent civil disobedience against their gun bans by not registering banned guns. Not allow these SS Cal DOJ officers going door to door collecting guns on some flimsy pretext until they have a warrant. California`s prisons are overflowing and they are under federal court oversight. They have no place to imprison defiant gun owners. Its that or you give up and move out of the state. Even if every gun owner went out and showed up at the polls, the numbers are not there to change electoral outcomes. California just has too many communists and statists.
Much of what I have commented about before under other articles in this post although a lot more eloquently written than I could ever have done.
I will say again, no matter what state you are in, when something happens in another state other than yours it is as much your problem as those immediately impacted. Every win we all win, every loss and we all loose — it really is that simple.
“Every win we all win, every loss and we all loose — it really is that simple.”
If that were really true, what’s the point of having individual states? If we’re all in it together, let’s just abolish state governments and have one central government.
Our founders were smart enough to know that a federation of smaller states is better because one size does not fit all. Each state is a laboratory, and some experiments fail or succeed. Other states are then free to adopt or reject policies that their neighbors have tried based on results. The results of California’s new laws will be a further stagnating of their economy and an increase in crime. I doubt many other states will wish to emulate that.
Even in NY, because of all the protests, the SAFE act got tweaked to allow 10-round magazines, when the original law that had passed only allowed 7-round ones. It may not seem like a big win, but it does show that it’s always worth a fight, and that must include California.
What is not likely, however, is the slow-down in the unceasing shedding of whatever vestiges of the Western spirit may still remain in that State, which seems to resemble the worst parts of the North East more and more with each passing day. If one lives there, one should fight. Others should help as much as they can. But don’t even think of moving there if you care about your gun rights.
Illinois ,just got sued and lost,time to take California to Federal Court onMultiple 2nd amendment violation as California believes it is Bove the Constitution and the Fedwperal Laws do not apply,just like Illinois thought til they got their there butt handed too them by the Supreme Court.Now that Illinois is done ,time to get the Lawsuit machine fired up in California,Let’s see,how many violations are there?well…. How many laws did they pass.?
Ya’ll have quite a few partisan voters in Kalifornia,Hispanics,Blacks,and mostly Socialistic Democrat voters are gonna vote for democrats,period.It is a proven fact that in these demographics it is true,and also by past voting records.There is also a large segment of the populace in Kalifornia on public assistance,and these people do not want their gravy train to go off the track so they vote for democrats ,because democrats want to be able to control the populace,by getting their vote which in turn keeps the democrat agenda in place.That is the reason the states with the most gun control have been chosen for this as the voters are more easily manipulated,but not all of the voters,but just the majority.The states with the most gun control also have the worst economies,Maryland for one will lose well over 100 million when Beretta leaves,Colorado is losing 85 million since Magpul left,New York will lose from having multiple gun maker,and gun accessories makers leaving.and the list goes on.When the tax base leaves someone has to pick up the tab and it will be mostly the folks that voted for the idiots that pushed these big time taxpayers out of their state.Be prepared and ready.Keep your powder dry.
Thank you for this editorial. I am one Californian who is sick and tired of all the gun control being proposed here and other places. I do what I can to stop it by donating money, joining groups and voting! I intend to stay until they come for my guns. If/When that happens I will not bring the foolishness of gun control, etc with me to my new home. I will embrace and seek to broaden the freedom. My estimation is that rural California does not want these laws only the major urban areas of the San Francisco Bay Area and the Los Angeles Area want them. It is time for the rest of California to stand up and balance the scales again. I welcome anyone willing to help, the rest of you naysayers can rot.
California is the perfect example of what we get when all the branches of government are controlled by the Dems. The only thing that saved us nationally in the last go around after Sandy Hook was that the Dems did not control the House of Representatives. That’s it in a nutshell. Just look at what happened when they did – Obamacare.
As it stands now we are just 17 seats away from losing the House. We are that close to losing it all. The only way to defeat them is by taking the fight to the individual states, California included.
Notice the picture, all emotionally unstable women. As far as California is concerned the majority is emotionally unstable women and men that feel like emotionally unstable women.
“By completely writing off California (and New York and New Jersey and Maryland) as a lost cause, we are not helping our efforts. While I agree that California is nowhere near firearms friendly, by packing it up and saying “it’s over”, we give the opposition the foothold they need to push their agenda on the rest of the country.”
What solution do you have then? You offered nothing that will change their politics.
It’s not their politics that are changing. It’s ours. We, the POTG stuck together and worked together after the 68 gca and the 94 awb. Our efforts brought shall issue to nearly every state. Made the awb go away instead of being renewed.
That was then. Now we have a bunch of people that are fragmenting and going their own way. Success has destroyed a lot of people in the past. It appears to be happening to the POTG.
MOved SAN FRAN, CA. 10yrs ago -with wife, kids – to ALTANTA! NEVER – repeat, NEVER looked back! Never HAD to. ATLANTA’s a ‘white-collar’ Professional town; a great place to work, live, own firearms, u-name-it!! cost of living, taxes, everything – CHEAP!! 4-5 hrs from the coast, 4-5 hrs from Mtn’s, hunting, fishing… THROW CA’ians under the bus for all I care! HELL! u gotta be kiddin me!! DEFEND CA.?? HAH!
Yes sir! I fled the Sacramento area in 1996 for Valdosta – now in Perry. Love it. Never regretted it for a minute.
If ya voted libtard (democrat), ya got what ya got.
Solution: Never vote libtard again.
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Former Kalifornian here! Moved to Az. in ’96. Sill to this day, I miss the South Bay area of L.A. where I spent the first 40 years of my life. Az. Is more gun-friendly, decidedly lower costs for everything, friendlier people, better in many ways. Thing is, though, and this sticks in my craw….Why the f### should I be bullied into leaving my home, my town because of these dickless politicians sitting on their big fat asses dictating their perverted concepts on me? Why the f### should I sheepishly bend over for these c0ck-$ucker$ and their sheep, who, in increasing numbers, were not born and raised in this country and have no concept of liberty whatsoever. I plan to accept a job offer in Kal. in the near future and relo back! My guns are coming with me. I choose to shove my long white middle finger in their faces. I choose to fight.
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