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One of the requirements of getting a concealed carry permit in California — yes, you can do that there, depending on the attitude of your local chief law enforcement officer — is undergoing up to 16 hours of training. According to state law, that curriculum includes “instruction on firearm safety, firearm handling, shooting technique, and laws regarding the permissible use of a firearm.”

Maybe that first part of that — the whole firearm safety and handling portion — should also be required of course instructors, too. According to the Desert Sun . . .

A Riverside man attending a firearms training class to get his concealed weapons permit was accidentally shot by a Riverside County Sheriff’s Department trainer, the department told The Desert Sun.

Like us, you might be wondering why an instructor would ever point the business end of a handgun at a student since that violates one of the four cardinal rules of gun safety.

According to a department news release issued in response to questions from The Desert Sun, gun range staff inspect students’ firearms during the course and students are instructed to unload their guns.

During the inspection, the range staff member — a civilian instructor the department did not identify  — administered a “trigger pull test” and shot the student in the leg. Range staff initially treated the injured man.

A “trigger pull test.” Uh huh. We’ve taken more than our share of training classes from some of the best in the business and can’t remember — even once — any of them talking about, let alone performing a “trigger pull test” to ensure a clear gun.

The “accidental discharge” is being investigated by both the sheriff’s Perris Station staff and the staff at the Ben Clark Training Center.

There was nothing “accidental” about what happened. It was a negligent discharge, pure and simple.

The Four Rules of Gun Safety

The four rules of firearm safety are simple and easy to learn. You have to break at least two of them for something bad to happen. The Riverside County trainer broke…well…pretty much all of them.

“Paramedics arrived and the citizen was transported to a local hospital where he received treatment for a non-life-threatening wound,” according to the department’s statement.

Checking the status of a handgun isn’t rocket surgery. And it doesn’t involve either 1) pointing it at another person, or 2) pulling the trigger. Ever. If your instructor is pulling a gun’s trigger to determine if it’s loaded or not, that’s a good indication that you have the wrong instructor.

 

 

 

 

 

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140 COMMENTS

      • I thought it was allowing the option of teachers to arm themselves after undergoing the required training required under the law.

        • No joke…on the same day this article was posted here on TTAG (I wasn’t online yesterday), I was showing a guest my Glocks and proceeded to disassemble one of them to discuss the recoil spring assembly. My method involves the muzzle pointed away from me, at a 45 degree downward angle. I assume most people do it that way because it just seems safe.

          He took the other one and literally turned it around to press the muzzle against his chest for support as he removed the slide. I barked and said “stop!”, but was too late as he removed the upper. He looked at me and said to chill, because that’s how he always disassembles his Glocks.

          I could feel the blood draining from my face.

      • I know, let’s arm teachers!

        This statement insinuates that teachers, who are entrusted to teach and train our kids, are either unable, or incompetent to a degree that they are unable to be taught and trained themselves on firearm safety.

        • WHAT A DUMBASS THAT INSTRUCTER IS, BY THE SAME TOKEN THERE SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER. IF I EVER WOULD HAVE A FIREARMS INSTRUCTER CHECK FOR A LOADED CHAMBER BY PULLING THE TRIGGER I WOULD HAVE LEFT AND DEMANDED A REFUND. HOW STUPID CAN ANYONE BE!

        • Following the four safety rules wouldn’t matter if a round was in the chamber or not, however, unless the law of the state says a CC can’t, then by what reason would someone not? It takes time to draw the weapon, switch the selector while presenting the target but you say I need to also chamber a round too. All the while the target is running at me… wasted time… No! If the law allows, have a round chambered. Since you ALWAYS treat the weapon as loaded, keeping finger straight and off the trigger and not pointing at anything not intended to shoot, what has a chambered round got anything to do with anything? Is that a California thing?

          A little background, 20 year Marine with 9 combat operations, CC and absolutley do not live in CA.

      • “Brings a whole new meaning to the word ‘Yelp’.”

        When TTAG’s Ralph goes to the ‘Great Gun Range’ in the sky, the wisecracks will still flow like water in TTAG…

      • You get an “A” for Ambulance, and a Gold Star to take home to Mommy. Not to mention the out-of-court settlement for injuries, pain-and-suffering, etc. On the bright side you’ll probably NEVER FORGET to check the chamber instead of pulling the trigger. Right?

  4. Always follow the 4 Rules, then, Re-follow the 4 rules. Check & recheck. If someone hands me a firearm, I will not accept it Unless the slide or bolt is locked open & I can see in the chamber, or cylinder is opened ( for revolvers). When I hand it back, I return it the same way. Open & empty.

    • Tony Massucci,

      Your safety protocol is excellent when the people handling the firearms have had safety training and know how their firearm operates.

      Now, I want to offer another point of view for your consideration. A person who has never received any training and who does not understand how a firearm operates (especially semi-automatic handguns with magazine releases, disassembly levers, slide locks, safeties, and decockers) could actually present a significant safety hazard to him/herself and everyone around if you require him/her to clear the firearm before handing it over. Such a person, even with good intentions, could lose track of the muzzle while studying the handgun and trying to determine how to manipulate it. Such a person could also unintentionally (and I mean truly unintentionally rather than negligently) actuate the trigger while trying to grip the handgun in a better manner.

      In cases as I just described in the paragraph above, it could very well be far safer if the person simply ensures that nothing will actuate the trigger and that the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction as they hand over the firearm to YOU (the person who knows how to safely handle, operate, and clear that firearm) for clearing. (Of course if this is the case, you would then immediately teach that person how to safely operate that handgun after clearing it so that he/she can safely clear it themselves in the future.)

      • Solid reasoning right there. That’s also how I was taught. Get a handed an “empty/safed” gun, and proceed to safely verify the weapons condition

      • When dealing with inexperienced shooters I like to use the method we use on the range at Boy Scout facilities. Don’t ever hand anyone a firearm. Set it on the shooting bench, muzzle downrange, step back. Instructor picks it up for examination or instruction.

    • At a gun show long ago, I once had a dealer hand me a personal (not for sale) pistol from under the table to impress me with the trigger pull. He cocked the hammer, and I pointed it at the ceiling (no upstairs), but even so, I just couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger. As an 18 year old, I was worried about offending a holy “Firearms Dealer!”, but I had to check the chamber anyway.
      After I did, the dealer smiled and said; “I was wondering whether you’d check it or not”. I said that as a kid, I WAS worried about you being offended that I’d cross check you, but I just had to. He said to not ever be afraid to check out a firearm’s condition, even if GOD himself hands it to you. It turns out that was real good advice.
      OFC, as most here have probably noticed, I no longer give a damn WHO I offend, not even god (but more often, humans who THINK they’re god…)!

      • When I was in high school, one of the teachers was a very avid collector of American History memorabilia. I mean stuff you’d see at a museum. He got exception to bring firearms in (no ammo of course.) so I got to handle a Model 1917 Smith. Naturally I crack it open and check it. As a person with a reputation in those parts I got the usual amount of sniggering for my troubles, but handled it and passed it along (wish I had one as an aside.) They did a musket firing demo later on that year, and who got to fire the musket? Yep, I did. It was the only pic of me that made the year book too!

        I will tell you that I will give a dirty look to anyone who says you shouldn’t check for yourself. That’s how you find unintentional holes made in objects. And people.

      • So, we learned it, now how can we get the ‘all-knowing’, ‘instructors’ to stop shooting their students? I think we’re doing step one right now. Losing the ones who have been training people that guns are never loaded, for decades upon decades now. The NRA. Yet more fail from the biggest gun control organization of all.

        • Knute,

          I store my handguns with a large neon colored zip tie pulled through the barrel. When the slide is closed, the “head” of the zip tie is sticking up out of the port, and the “tail” is seen sticking out of the muzzle. Helps considerably to see that it’s indeed empty when taking it out of the case or handing over to someone.

          • Haz,

            Been doing that for quite a while…works great!

            Several years ago I entered a match where they were not happy with my 11-inch neon yellow colored tie protruding from both ends of the barrel and required me to purchase one of their little dull yellow safety flags that can only be seen from the ejection port side and not from the muzzle at all…their match, their rules. Figured that they had a “captive” audience and were making some $$ for their Club. It’s in a pocket of my shooting bag in case a different match requires that specific flag for their rules (no one has kvetched about my yellow ziptie at any other ranges or matches).

  5. So the moral of the story is DON’T test to see if a gun is loaded or not by pointing it at someone’s leg and pulling the trigger. Got it.

    He’s lucky his bullet didn’t find a femoral artery.

    • When I was in training at Fort Knox KY. A drill Sgt shot and killed a trainee while clearing a .45 auto.

  6. ND by a dumbass. I can only guess the “Trigger Test” is used to determine if student firearms have a light trigger pull that would be judged by Staff as unsafe for use duting the Class. No mention of a Trigger pull scale being used, so it would be subjective at best and prejudicial at worse. Being CA, they probably want NY triggers and a great 1911 trigger causes them to piss their pants.

    Safety guy screwed the pooch a couple times but there is also the issue of the Student correctly Clearing the gun prior to passing it to the Trigger tester.

    • You may be right. At my ccw range day someone was trying to qualify with two guns, one of which was her brother’s or husband’s tricked out Glock 19. Needless to say during one drill that gun fired all 6 rounds after she pulled the trigger, only 6 as the instructor had limited what was loaded to the bare minimum necessary for the drill. Not sure if the momentum of the slide resetting was enough to trigger the trigger, which sounds stupid I know, or some other malfunction. We were all really glad she kept the thing pointed down range. The instructor thanked for holding onto to it and keeping it pointed in a safe direction then told her to go put the thing away and have the owner rethink their priorities.

  9. “SEE? If you’d properly unloaded your gun I wouldn’t have just shot you. Now go walk it off and try again.”

  10. From first hand experience, I’ve seen how not all instructors are safe and skilled.

    While we haven’t had any instructors shoot their students in Illinois, we have had some instructors running classes with students firing guns on unsafe ranges. On at least three occasions rounds escaped the range (over the berm or from lack of a berm altogether) and struck people down range.

    John

    • I’ve seen SOOO many of these type of ‘instructors’, over the years (the kind that think ‘testing’ for condition by shooting at something is a great idea…), that perhaps that’s why I’m a bit paranoid about picking a PROPER instructor that WON’T inflict such ridiculous crap on their poor newbies!
      And, yet another thing wrong with MANDATORY training. Most of the time, mandated training will also mandate which class and instructor. If you should happen to be assigned to an idiot, like this poor sod, what’s your recourse? Get shot in the leg, and then get rejected for your permit anyway, since you obviously won’t be safe after a class with THAT instructor?

  11. Back in the day, I used to be impressed with someone when they told me that they were a NRA certified instructor. That is until I became one myself. The test was equivalent to asking what a green traffic light means in a driving test.

    Just because someone is an “instructor” does not not mean that they know what they are doing, or are even, safe.

    • “Certified” in most cases, means that the instructor will parrot an officially approved lesson plan. It has nothing to do with real-life qualifcations, competence, or much of anything else. I have a few “certifications” of my own, which are all bogus and meaningless. My most recent cert involves arc-flash protection. I can now parrot company policy on arc-flash protection, which is only remotely related to real-life hazards.

    • Like you D, I’m not at all impressed or feel a wave of “safety” wash over me when I hear that phrase.

      Personal experience has also given me an altered view of the perceived level of safety involved with such credentials.

    • I’ve come to believe that this very issue cuts to the heart of what is wrong with most of today’s world. People have substituted pieces of paper on a wall (or a computer/phone/tablet/ etc.) for a functional human brain. So, if the guy has a “certified Instructor” piece of paper, then it must be OK to test a gun by shooting it at my leg. After all, he’s the one with the piece of paper.
      Some old saying about “the blind leading the blind” comes to mind…

  12. Should I bother pointing out that the most important thing to do before taking a class is to check out the instructors and the organization?

    Would I automatically trust the gun handling skills of the local PD, oh hell no! I have met and taken classes from extremely competent cops, but we have all seen plenty of reports of the other kind. At least Lee Paige shot himself.

  13. Thank God it was only a “trigger pull test.” Had he employed the “lethality test,” wherein the muzzle is directed against the temple, it could have been even worse.

  14. The instructor may know the four rules very well, and drill them into the students (so to speak).

    This sounds like an error of habit. Getting one’s self into bad habits – like not checking where the gun is pointed when you go to pull the trigger, so long as it’s “away from me,” would be an example – can happen slowly over time, and can be very hard to catch.

    Not that this in any way excuses the instructor. But I am going to make it an opportunity to self-inspect my own processes next time I clean and inspect a gun, especially if it’s one I need to pull the trigger to disassemble.

    • Yeah probably a bad habit. If you ever watch a Hickok45 video, you’ll notice he always pulls the trigger after he clears the gun. I always thought that was a bad habit, but at least he points the gun downrange when he does it.

    • I agree. And most get this bad technique from WHERE?
      “ALWAYS Keep The Gun Unloaded Until Ready To Use” -NRA rule one!

      Now what kind of training is that for concealed carry? In what way is that NOT saying that one should expect all guns to be unloaded at all times? So people, esp. the beginner, can’t help but think; “it was the ‘official training… they MUST know what they’re doing… RIGHT?). And then comes; “But I didn’t know the gun was loaded…”.
      Just more unethical behavior one can lay right at the feet of the idiots at the NRA. But then, I guess between shuffling all the stolen funds around, WLP and Ack-mac haven’t enough time left to care whether or not their ‘instructors’, just ‘accidentally’ kill a few students every now and then.

      • Actually that’s Rule Three.

        Rule One is “Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction”

        We ALWAYS designate a safe direction in the classroom. I would maintain that pointed at someone’s thigh is not a safe direction.

        • Anyone who’s been around long enough knows to release the spring tension on the fire control group when not in use. 90 percent of supposed gunnguys don’t know you can slowly close a rifle bolt (round chambered or not) with the trigger pulled to decock the mechanism.

          By admitting you don’t know about it means you are as smart as you think you are. Good thing you asked. That’s how you learn.

        • Spudlik: I lost a deer to the sound of a safety going off once. Never again. Now I always carry a bolt action with the striker down on a live round. Done slow enough, I can recock that striker in total silence. And with no force to channel elsewhere, its a far safer condition than any safety can provide, no matter how well designed.

      • Maybe currently, but it was rule one when I was an NRA instructor, before I went elsewhere after them stabbing me in the back too many times. Apx. 1982 or so. NOTE… WAY before LePeirre.
        Luckily (I’ve been blessed with LOTS of “good luck”, AKA “synchronicity”, in my life. Right after leaving the NRA, I spent a year in Flagstaff, AZ., and lucked into Gunsight Raven. Just told about them by a local in a gunshop while discussing training. I went out to see them and they woke me all the way up, and gave me a taste for competition. I’ve joined many other orgs since, including the JPFO, but have never once missed Negotiating Rights Away.

    • Exactly. I don’t know which is worse a new person handling a firearm or the guy bragging about all the classes he has taken who believes he is infallible with his gun handling skills. I have left the range before due to both types. Gun handling safety needs to be an absolute mindset followed without fail. Kind of like me when I use my table saw. I have used it a lot but it still scares me a whole lot with great respect of the damage it can inflict on me if I get the least bit complacent.

      • Yep, about the same time you get complacent with your table saw is when your nickname changes to “Stumpy”…mistakes with power tools (to include firearms) are not forgiving.

  17. I got my CCW at Ben Clark, in Riverside. During the classroom portion of the test, a cocky little Deputy gave us all a lecture about how when we were on the live range, he would be inspecting our firearms for modification and said “If anyone muzzles me, I *WILL* fail you immediately and you will be removed from the range, and you will have to start the entire process over.”

    fast forward to the range portion, I clear my weapon at the bench, wait for my name to be called. Cocky Deputy takes my weapon, which I handed to him, locked back, slide first, muzzle down, and IMMEDIATELY rotates weapon, releases the slide and fucking muzzles me as he’s ‘inspecting’ it.
    I slide to my left, out of the point of aim and glared at him. at least he had the fucking decency to look embarrassed, and turned away from me to keep ‘inspecting’ it.

    Arrogant “only one’s”

    fucking clown. I would not be surprised if it was the same idiot

  20. I like to point semi-autos at the ground when unloading or racking the slide to chamber a round. Decades ago I had a 1911 A 1 discharge when racking the slide. It was pointed at the ground. If I’m in a house I point it at the bottom of the baseboard. I’ve never had to do it in a public building. At the range it is pointed down range. Of course revolvers don’t have such considerations.

  21. My guess is the student took a chunk of bullet after the instructor discharged into the ground near them.

    Probably should keep the gun pointed down range when pulling the trigger, but I’m no certified expert.

  22. Only in California…..I guess we know the trigger works.
    When crap like this happens, some liberal anti-gunner will say even their best people, the ones who teach others, aren’t safe. This makes us all look bad.

  23. At the Aurora, CO police range, the classroom has tiered seating and a student in the back row with an “unloaded” gun put a bullet into the brain of a recruit sitting in the next row. They updated the unload procedure to clear the gun, then point it into a bullet trap and pull the trigger to prove it wasn’t loaded. Is this a “trigger test?” Regardless, I don’t think a student’s leg is considered a proper bullet trap.

  24. Only in Kalifornia….. Land of liberal monkeys…
    I guess this will be considered “gun violence” under their communist manifesto…

    • Another “mass shooting” for The Moms to propagandize…

      One would hope that the “Trainer” is relieved of his teaching credentials for his rampant dumbassery.

  25. I’m sorry, but that kind of negligence will require litigation…. And that dude wouldn’t walk away unscathed had he shot me like that…effin morons….
    Some of these range officers are the LAST people who need to be in control of a gun range…
    Considering where this happened though, it’s not surprising AT ALL!!!

  26. Instructor…Zero?!? Sounds like most of the so-called “personal” fitness trainers who are completely inept. They didn’t shoot anyone but they sure wasted time & money😫

  27. Another good rule to follow is no ammomallowed in the classroom. If possible all ammo should be left outside or in a cabinet away from the desks

    When until I my ccw class 25 years ago the instructor had this rule in place. Every gun had to be cleared upon entry and no brass in the room

  28. “California Concealed Carry Trainer Accidentally Shoots Student While Clearing His Gun”

    That’s wrong, this was no accident. If you shoot someone while clearing a gun you committed an act of stupidity, of recklessness, of incompetence. It was not an “accident”.

  29. The “Trigger Pull Test” has killed and injured a lot of people. Also, not an accident – the firearm functioned as designed.

  30. This may or may not be the case here, but. When I was shooting in IPSC and IDPA matches. It was drilled into me the sequence of, unload and show clear, slide forward, hammer down, holster. Could this have been part of the instructor’s mindset? I will attest to the fact that I still perform this range safety protocol when during my PA Act 235 re-cert, I did hammer down before bolstering and was called out by my instructor.

  31. Many years ago, when I was in basic training at Ft. Gordon, we had a discharge during the third “Inspection Arms” after leaving the range; one upon leaving the range firing line, one before the hike back to the company area, and one before entering the barracks. It was during that third Inspection Arms that the discharge occurred. I still have no idea how a round could have escaped firing during the previous two actions.
    The private who had the discharge certainly paid for it; during Inspection Arms the user looks into the chamber to ensure there’s no round there. Obviously, he failed to do that.
    Anyone who’s seenFull Metal Jacket should know that.

    • I add to that, FEEL in the chamber with a pinkie finger, because LOOKING just isn’t good enough. It is too easy to miss a round by just looking, esp. in poor light, etc. Your experience is a case in point.
      That boot somehow missed it twice. If he’d had to feel the chamber also, he would have probably done better. I also train to never spin the cylinder of a revolver, esp. a single action, to check for condition. Too easy to miss one if it’s alone in there and spinning. I teach to slowly roll the cylinder of a SA hogleg along the forearm (with the gate open and at half cock) to check for condition.
      Obviously, there’s no need to spin the cylinder of a DA revolver to check it, but most do so anyway. And then, if one just closes the crane (the part that holds the cylinder in a swing out cylinder revolver) while the cylinder is still spinning, that is the surest way to screw up the cylinder stop that there is. Short of beating on it with a hammer anyway.

    • Wow! Ft. Gordon was a kill zone in the late ’60’s.
      On the M60 range we were told to place the guns sideways to the range, as in 90 deg to targets and open the top.
      Then a range AI would stick a cleaning rod into the action to close the bolt.
      As an M60 feeds from the bottom of the action a round can be hidden and ready to go bang.
      One went bang and killed a trainee. The round went in his left temple and…well they were called “brain buckets” for a reason.

  33. 1. I aim to be safer the the police. I typed “officer accidentally shot by own gun” in the search bar. Look and see just how many there are. More than you think.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=officer+accidently+shot+by+own+gun&oq=officer+accidently+shot+by+own+gun&aqs=chrome..69i57j33.9338j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    2. I am to be more accurate than the police. I Typed in “officer shoots the wrong person” in the search bar. The police miss the intended target all the time.

    “Eight Los Angeles police officers who collectively fired 107 shots at two women delivering newspapers in a truck that police had mistaken for one belonging to renegade ex-cop Christopher Dorner will not face criminal charges”

    https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/27/us/christopher-dorner-manhunt-officers-cleared/index.html

    “San Francisco cops fire 65 shots in 15 seconds at murder suspect”
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/san-francisco-cops-fire-65-shots-in-15-seconds-at-murder-suspect-in-dramatic-video

    • Yup. I remember that story. The cops fired on a truck that was the WRONG make/model, the WRONG color, and was moving away from them. They sent all that lead downrange (I read it was 102 total round), hitting their “target” only twice. Turns out it was two Latina ladies delivering morning newspapers to customers. Don’t quite know who gave the order to unload all those mags at a target without obeying the Four Rules (know your target, know what’s beyond the target, etc.).

      My question to anyone who wanted to discuss that story at the time it happened was always “so what happened to all the bullets that missed the vehicle? How many ended up hitting someone else’s car parked on the street, or a house, or whatever?” Did any of those cops ever face charges?

      Would any of us get off scott-free if we mis-identified a target and shot two innocent ladies who presented absolutely no threat whatsoever?

  34. The worse part about this is the trainer is likely training the police officers as well since he was identified as “The Riverside County Sheriff’s Department trainer.” That title implies that he trains staff at the sheriff’s department.

      • I believe the article mentioned that the “Trainer” was a civilian (non-LEO) affiliated with the S.O.

        There are plenty of bozo LEO’s out there without falsely attributing a negligent-discharge injury to one.

  36. So, the good citizen filled out an application and paid the application fee. He was fingerprinted and charged a fingerprinting fee. He passed a background check after paying the background check fee. He paid the mandatory training class fee and made it through the classroom portion. During the range portion of the mandatory training class, the instructor promptly shot him.

    They really, really, really work hard to discourage citizens from getting a CCW license in California.

  37. “the range staff member — a civilian instructor the department did not identify”

    No one is going to point out the cops are CIVILIANS? Fed up with the the BS that popo are something else. When on orders they can be military any other time they are CIVILIANS, armed, in a costume.

  38. it doesn’t involve[….]pulling the trigger. Ever. ??

    IDPA, USPSA, the military; the final step AFTER you clear the gun is to ALWAYS point in safe direction and pull the trigger.

    And why do you ask, clear firearms enough and one time you are going to miss the fact that it is not actually clear and it will bite you in the ass. Pulling the trigger is a final check for that one time you mess up. Because there is nothing more dangerous than a cleared firearm that wasn’t.

    The one point is to always point in a safe direction. Any instructor who was clearing guns absolutely should have pointed downrange or into a bullet trap.

  39. Those are NOT the firearm safety rules. That’s the Nanny State version you morons.

    It’s the same idiotic game of telephone and amoral “better safe than free” thinking that turned the “21 foot heightened alertness” into the shoot immediately, plant evidence later zone.

    Treat every weapon as if it’s loaded until you’ve personally checked it’s unloaded.

    The reason they keep winning is you keep thinking “better safe…”

  40. I hope they give this poor guy the license since it is not his fault that he did not get a certificate of completion.

  41. I worked for a company that had a Homeland Security contract to provide weapons familiarization to other countries’ TSA-type agents. The company hired a sheriffs deputy to perform it. One day he brought in a dufflebag full of guns, placed them on a table and let everyone handle them. BOOM – a 45 goes off, going through an unloaded mag on the table, the table, bounced off the floor and stopped by the ceiling. Claims he was moving and got his “training guns” mixed with his personal guns. LOTS of govt help on that lessons learned exercise.

  42. How much money do you think the injured party will seek in damages from those responsible, that being the civilian instructor and the Sheriffs Dept? Should be a bunch, if the above article is factually correct.

  43. Hoping to gain wisdom, insight, or at least a different point of view, my son and I attended a CHL course taught by a regionally renowned instructor. He rattled off an impressive list of credentials: military service, decades in acronym agencies, trainer of trainers of Operators, every certification the NRA has to offer, officer in at least two local clubs.

    During the live-fire part of the afternoon, he had the class of 20+ prepare for a drill in close-quarters combat. We were all instructed to charge our pistols and lay them on the bench. Then we’d all file around in front of the bench and address our cardboard assailants. For each student in turn, the instructor would pick up their pistol from the bench and hand it to the student. The student was to perform a fending-off strike with their weak hand then fire a shot from their strong hand.

    In case you weren’t keeping score with the developing situation: He wanted us to step in front of a row of pistols with rounds in their chambers, and then he wanted to handle those pistols with us still downrange.

    Assured we would still pass if we declined to perform that particular drill, my son and I watched from behind the benches. We have since avoided any classes or competitions or any other events where this guy would be involved.

  45. I’ve been carrying for only 3 years. Every time I pickup one of my guns, I am on high-alert. Even if I have cleared it, I am on high-alert. I practice frequently, but the feeling that I must be hyper-attentive never goes away when I am handling my firearms. How does an instructor become so casual? I read this blog every day because there is so much to learn

  47. The “Trigger Pull Test” never fails to make sure that a firearm is clear of the round in the chamber. Isn’t it the same gun “safety” procedure required by Glock to field strip a Glock?

  48. A “trigger pull test” should only be performed in an approved Discharge Chamber. Never in a room full of people. Whomever the “Instructor” was, they need about 80 hours of a “Why You Don’t Do Stupid Shit” class.

  49. It is a damn good thing that they didn’t have a manual safety on that gun. No one would have gotten shot to prove that the gun was not unloaded.

  50. What an idiot. This is why if you are taking these classes, you don’t just take one and consider yourself “trained”. You go to multiple trainers, and continue to improve/learn. Because there is always one idiot who calls themselves a “trainer” that is complacent and negligent… like this one who did the “trigger test”…. what a moron. Probably why he lives in Riverside, with the rest of the morons.

  51. Moron Teacher had gun pointed at student.

    Moron Teacher never checked chamber

    Moron Student was probably caring a striker fired pistol without a loaded chamber indicator or one that had a hard to see indicator which are sometimes only a half step from being almost useless like the one on a Glock. Yet another Glock fault I have failed to mention in the past. Sometimes its hard to remember all the Glock faults.

    • I made the mistake of taking the boy to shop for school clothes when he was 14 years old. He got into an argument in the store. He stood nose to nose with his opponent for 15 minutes, dishing out insults and ridicule. He called the target of his rage a moron 37 times. I did not have the heart to tell him he was standing in front of a full length mirror. He still thinks he won that encounter.

  52. And, now the student has to pay the Sheriff’s Department so he can retake the class because he failed to attend the complete class.

    Note that the grossly incompetent training was being presented by the same law enforcement agency responsible for deciding who can get a permit.

  53. That is exactly why I am reluctant to get training. You see these bozos all over the public range with their vests with a hundred patches on them, aviators glasses and nylon instructor belts strutting around like Jeff Cooper dispensing unasked for advice.
    My dad taught me when I was a kid, and the military taught me after that. I usually carry a revolver because it is safer, and when I carry an auto the chamber is always clear. People (especially cops) belittle me for that but I had a 1911 discharge just from racking the slide and it was unnerving and embarrassing. Luckily no harm was done. I’m not willing to risk it again.

    • If your gun fires from racking the slide you need to have a competent gunsmith look at it. Modern firearms in proper working order, don’t just “go off”.

  55. ——-Upon “Unload and show clear,” she will first drop the magazine and stow it in a pocket, then eject the round from the chamber and let it fall to the ground. It’s amazing how strongly that ejected round calls to us, but just let it drop! Do not attempt to catch it in your palm, and for damn sure don’t flip the round into the air and catch it with a flourish. We’re handling weapons, not footballs. That sort of needless macho showboating by a few idiot hotshots gave IPSC shooters a black eye back in the 80’s and prompted a rule to stop it. Now, it will earn you a match DQ as well as a reputation for recklessness that can turn an edgy incident into another DQ next time around.

    Next, she locks her slide to the rear, all the while keeping her pistol pointed safely straight downrange. Your RO will visually inspect the chamber and magazine well to verify the weapon is completely unloaded. Don’t take his opinion for it, though; check it yourself. You are ultimately responsible for the condition of your firearm.

    Upon the “Slide down” command, our shooter drops the slide on an empty chamber. The RO will then issue the command “Hammer down,” which is her cue to pull the trigger and dry fire straight and level into the backstop to prove the pistol is unloaded. If something goes bang instead of click, she’d be done. But that didn’t happen, so the RO will next command her to “Holster a safe weapon.”——

    Yeah, you missed a few steps in your clearing procedure. – Moron.

  56. So these trainers are going to be the only ones to be granted access to firearms, or exempted from existing laws or propositions? Wow, I feel so much safer now.

    • The word “student” implies someone there to learn. He may have had no experience with firearms. The “Trainer” is ultimately responsible for what happens during their “instructional” time. Calling the student “dumb” is presumptious on your part…however, the “Trainer”, based on direct observation, falls within that category.

  59. Possible it was done on purpose? Maybe the Deputy doesn’t believe in people owning guns or in concealed carry and is belongs to a group with the agenda of disarming the citizenry?

    • Yoda, yea right. Conspiracies are all around us disguised as accidents. SHIT happens, get over it.

    • Being done on purpose by a hateful anti-gunner is plausible since why else would a trainer point a gun at a student when doing a trigger test. Also I can not imagine a better way to scare off present and future students.

  60. It always amazes me at all of the so called experts that chime in on these posts. How many times a year in this country do we collectively as a nation perform some kind and level of gun training? Possibly in the multiple of millions of times a year. And when something like this happens even as rare as it is, all the psycho experts jump on the bandwagon with their opinion and supposed expert opinion. Just like the experts from the other side of the spectrum jump on the bandwagon when some animal shoots some other animal on the streets of some rotting urban city and blame all gun owners collectively. This isn’t even a newsworthy item to 99% of the population in this country, and yet suddenly it brings out all the expert gun swingers that just have to offer their opinion. An accident happened, probably committed by an accident waiting to happen. The untrained teaching the untrained, and the chances of it happening is so remote that it’s probably never going to happen to any of you in your lifetimes. It wasn’t directly the instructors fault totally but the fault was that of the student handing the instructor a pistol with a bullet in the chamber. Get the Fuck over it!

  61. A great lesson on what not to do with a handgun. It was not an accident, it was negligence, as are most “accidents” Hope the student is OK

  63. Yeah i always load by gun b4 cleaning just in case the Hoppe’s 9 gets dangerous and i push the rod or snake from down the wrong end!

    Keep ur booger hooker off the bang switch.

    Another Darwin award! Please..more bleach in the gene pool!

    Sure..maybe its possible to have a AD on a bad day in a safe direction after shooting millions of rounds over a lifetime..maybe but, i know many who have cept maybe SMOOCH00 InnerWeb Xpurt who has had several….

  65. There is no such thing as an accidental shooting. They are all NEGLIGENT shootings, as a result of ignoring gun safety rules. The shooter should be #1 arrested. #2 fired and #2 sued. But most likley nothing will happen.

    Bruce Clark when it comes to guns there is no such thing as an accident. This was negligence. All gun safety rules were ignored. Tha’s not an accident, that’s criminal, or should be.

  66. Requiring someone else to qualify you is simply another communist piece of legislation which is completely unconstitutional, criminal, and designed to thieve money from the population. California is a criminally operated State run by organized crime.

  67. This was in Riverside County….not near as flaming insanely liberal as LA but still VERY far to the left of middle America. The ONLY reason the person undergoing training for a CCW is because that person has
    some “connection” to the sheriff. An important campaign donor, a vocal high profile supporter….SOMETHING. Unless you are useful to the Chief Law Enforcement Officer who approves a CCW
    application in Kali the odds of you getting a CCW are essentially zero outside of a handful of VERY rural counties like Alturas……and even in rural Kali it’s STILL “MAY ISSUE” so it’s never a certainty.

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