Browning Hi-Power MkI (image courtesy JWT for thetruthaboutguns.com)
JWT for thetruthaboutguns.com

Here’s the thing: sometimes government procurement is hard. Governments sometimes need stuff that no one else needs, and there’s no real opportunity to develop expertise in procuring supplies that only need replacing once every generation or two. This isn’t to excuse ineptitude, but sometimes, when the government screws something like this up, you can sort of understand why. Some of this stuff just can’t be bought off the shelf.

But pistols can! A properly licensed Canadian can walk into a store, point at one on a literal shelf and say, “That one, please.” After a few days of paperwork, that person can pick it up and take it home. Pistols exist, in quantity, and there’s plenty of manufacturing capacity for them, from experienced producers with decades of experience.

There is nothing about the pistols or the gun manufacturers that’s causing a problem here, no technological breakthroughs that are required or production bugs to iron out. This is entirely on us — we can’t procure pistols for the military because our government is incompetent.

The pistol procurement process isn’t the only evidence of this, nor is it arguably the worst example, in terms of cost to the public. But it’s an excellent one — Canada is really good at taking something that ought to be easy to procure and turning it into an 11-year (and counting) odyssey of incompetence.

It would be funny, in a way, but for one problem: Canadian military personnel are going into dangerous situations carrying weapons that don’t work and could literally have been carried by their grandfathers during the fight against Hitler. Indeed, there are soldiers in the Canadian military today who hadn’t even hit puberty when we started trying to replace the pistols they’re carrying. So yeah, we could laugh. Yet crying somehow feels more appropriate.

— Matt Gurney in Canada’s bid to replace WWII-era pistols a case study in government incompetence

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

108 COMMENTS

      • Except they dont work. These guns are 80 yrs old and it takes about 4 guns to contribute parts to keep the other one running. They are ancient pieces of crap

        • Cowboy, every one I ever owned, including the current one always worked. I think the total is four. Belgium and Portugal. 2 ea.

    • What dangerous situations are the Canadian military encountering? Thanks to the USA, Canada gets to LARP their way through life relying on the US to pull their fat out of the fire should the need ever arise.

      • The Military is just there to protect the government from its own citizens. Especially those people who dare question Leader for Life Justin “Bieber” Trudeau and his lock down policies. That’s why the military is trying to sell all their tanks and only use the cheaper Textron Armored Cars. Mom and the kids won’t stand a chance.

      • @ M10….I had to laugh like hell after reading your post….just a funny side note for those that don’t know the “LARP” terminology meaning: “Live Action Role Play”…. My neighbors grandson is into this and he explained it to us as a fantasy type game of role-playing in their actual real life in which a group of participants (ie. reenactments) dress in costumes, representing a make-believe character using props such as foam, plastic, or wood sticks as swords, or wooden rifles and pistols along with old or discarded surplus equipment. The canucks probably won’t find it funny tough!

    • No the design, no. But the Canadian government is kind of famous for refusing to replace broken and worn out military equipment. The far left nature of their political system barely acknowledge the need for a military and as such they do the absolute bare minimum to get something working and expect their soldiers to make do. They do this with everything from ships, to air-craft, to individual firearms.

      Used to know a guy up there in Canada back in the early 00’s that did a few tours in their military and he was always ragging on his nations military for how badly worn out it was. Their air-force mostly exists on paper with almost a 1/5th of them grounded for lack of parts. Another big thing was that the Canada’s were starting to have trouble getting new TIRES for their vehicles because a lot of it was so damn old no one was really making them anymore. Of course this was a while back and supposedly this has gotten somewhat better, but not by a lot.

      • “The far left nature of their political system barely acknowledge the need for a military and as such they do the absolute bare minimum to get something working and expect their soldiers to make do.”

        And, “If really gets bad, the Americans will save us.”

        Imagine to their horror one day when a Leftist Scum US President tells them “You’re on your own, I won’t risk American lives. I ran on a promise of no more foreign wars.”

        And – “Their air-force mostly exists on paper with almost a 1/5th of them grounded for lack of parts.”

        80 percent up and operational is pretty damn good, better than some US military aviation units…

        • ’80 percent up and operational is pretty damn good, better than some US military aviation units’

          Well I know we have plenty of planes sitting in bone yards that could be put into service. The difference from what I’m saying is that of those aircraft in Canadian service a lot of them are said to be functional now but they’re not. Or at least weren’t when the guy I knew was talking about. And even the ones that were ready on paper were in such bad shape that it would be dangerous to even try to fly them.

      • It’s even worse in Germany. On a major maneuver with NATO in Poland, the Germans had to borrow tanks because so many of its own (very capable) tanks were out of service due to a lack of spares. Out of five submarines, 4 are in dry dock, unable to be put to sea due to a lack of parts. There was the infamous fiasco with the barrels of their service rifles warping during sustained automatic fire. Out of 202 fighter jets, it is set to replace its 90 aging tornadoes.

  2. Maybe black-face Trudeau thinks he can bring about world peace by disarming his nations military. They can adopt the Ghandi method of warfighting sans the Indian paramilitary hits that went on the whole time the guy in the toga was turning down sandwiches.

  3. “A properly licensed Canadian can walk into a store, point at one on a literal shelf and say, “That one, please.” After a few days of paperwork, that person can pick it up and take it home. Pistols exist, in quantity, and there’s plenty of manufacturing capacity for them, from experienced producers with decades of experience.“

    Seems reasonable, all that and free healthcare as well, those folks have it together.

    • I hope that means you fill out some paperwork and wait a few days and not that you have to spend a few days filling out paperwork.

      Also, the healthcare in Canada isn’t free. They pay for it with high taxes, long wait times and if you can afford it trips to America for out of pocket surgeries. You really should brush up on your Milton Friedman.

      • Yeah I’ve known people who had to come to america for stuff. I hope we never get Canadian style healthcare because a lot of people will die unnecessarily.

        • Our American health care system is pretty horrific. It is insanely expensive. It has badly failed covid patients, by denying them early treatment. Now, they are firing medical staff for refusing an experimental injection which obviously doesn’t work well.

          Americans are spending more and more on healthcare and getting sicker and sicker all the time.

          Moreover, our American healthcare system really is more than halfway socialized already. It is a horrible blend of socialism and capitalism. Sure, socialized medicine sucks, but I kinda think we currently have this perverse hybrid which is perhaps worse.

      • Well, the healthcare system in Canada can’t be all that bad, on average they live three years longer than Americans.

        “Here’s a fact most Canadians probably don’t know: Canadians live longer than people in the United States. Specifically, women in Canada live an average of 83 years, compared to 80 in the U.S.; men live more than 78 years on average compared to 75 in the United States.Dec 31, 2013”

        And their infant mortality rate isn’t all that great in Canada but it’s much better than ours.

        “In 2007, Canada’s infant mortality rate—or the number of deaths of children less than one year of age per 1,000 live births—was 5.1.5 This was significantly higher than the rate in almost all its peer countries. Canada earns a “C” on this indicator. The only comparator country with a worse record on infant mortality is the U.S., with 6.5 infant deaths per 1,000 live births.
        Of the 17 OECD countries examined here, 12 have an infant mortality rate below 4, a rate deemed to be exceptional. Japan, Sweden, and Finland all have infant mortality rates of under 3 deaths per 1,000 live births.”

        I don’t think anybody really minds maybe having to wait a little longer for a healthcare procedure, when the outcome is so much better than here in the United States plus medical bills in the United States are the cause of 40% of personal bankruptcies.

        Here in America people actually die because they cannot afford their medicine or life-saving healthcare procedures. Canadians pay significantly less for the exact same prescriptions as in the United States.

        In Canada, medical expenses do not cause any personal bankruptcies and nobody dies because they can’t afford medical care.

        And small businesses do better because they don’t have to carry the expense of healthcare insurance for their valuable employees.

        • that’s why me an my buddy dacian are moving to Canada.
          where the hell is he anyway, he should have been here by now, hope he isn’t backing out?

        • ‘I don’t think anybody really minds maybe having to wait a little longer for a healthcare procedure…’

          You’ve obviously never had to wait for a hip replacement when your osteoarthritis has rendered you unable to work. Gee, I can wait 2 months in America or 18 months (if your lucky) in Canada – why would anybody mind the wait?!? After all, once my hip is replaced I won’t have an excuse to use the scooters at Walmart!

          And as I said, it’s far from free. As a rule anything that’s ‘free’ from the government is actually much more expensive. For instance you can send your kid to Catholic school for about half of what most public school districts spend per student. Funny how bureaucracies work that way.

        • Longevity is no way to judge a healthcare system. People die outside of the healthcare system all the time. It’s just that more Americans do. IE. shootings etc..

        • It’ll be interesting to see what happens to Canadian healthcare when the wealthy can no longer head to the States and pay out of pocket to avoid a wait or get a procedure that’s not available “up there.” When the U.S. has the same sort of single-payer, no cash option government controlled system.

        • minor49IQ…Oh canada and Oh justin awaits you…You can still log on to TTAGs and post from there…Onward to the north you moosehead.

        • Lifespans and infant mortality rates are terrible indicators of the quality of a nation’s healthcare system, as both of those have far more to do with lifestyle choices that are out of the control of the healthcare system. The US system is the best in the world at dealing with critical healthcare issues that can be helped by treatment and/or surgery.

        • I had friends who died in Capitalvania who were told they had to wait 3 months just to talk to a specialist. I myself was often told the exact same thing.

          Another Republican propaganda is that Canadians are forced to come to the U.S. for health care. False. Some rich Canadians not wanting to wait for a minor non life threatening procedure do but contrast this to the people in Capitalvania who die everyday because they cannot afford preventive health care, mental health care or life saving drugs which are not affordable to them. Or they have long waits just to talk to a specialist.

        • Illegal immigration distorts U.S. healthcare statistics….. Nobody’s attempting to ” break in ” to Canada.

      • Pre-covidpalooza ER’s and urgent care were already backed up with morons who went in for common ailments like a cold or flu, simple clean and bandage wounds and gas. Now thanks to media hype it’s even worse with everyone who has a runny nose lining up to be tested and retested and tested once more only to be told, if positive, to go home and eat soup.

        Just like drug legalization is fine with me as long as we also stop spending money to support addicts single-payer healthcare is fine with me as long as we can cut all the waste that comes from smokers, drinkers, fatties and paranoid lunatics. Of course that’s a non-starter to the left but should you miss a brand-new shot in the arm because there’s a 0.003% chance you might get sick well, they’ll let you die in the street because science.

      • “Also, the healthcare in Canada isn’t free. They pay for it with high taxes, long wait times and if you can afford it trips to America for out of pocket surgeries.”

        The most MRI machines in America are on the border with Canada, since a wait for a Canada MRI machine can be many months long.

        Keep your ‘free’ Canada health care, since you will likely die before you can be seen by a doctor…

    • There are obsurd minimum barrel lengths.
      Try and buy a standard Walther P5 (3.5″ barrel) in Canada.

      • I believe that’s why S&W and Ruger 4″ revolvers are actually 4-1/8″ and 4.2″ respectively. Because of the Canadian restrictions. Not sure if 4″ and under are banned outright or there’s just extra hoops to jump through.

        • Yup, even Glock made a 4.2″ Glock 19 for Canada. Anything shorter can’t be sold to Citizens. I do believe older, shorter barrel guns can be retained, but you may not be able to shoot them at a range or remove them from your home, etc.

        • Gov; up here in the frozen north we have/had a three tiered licensing system; non-restricted (most long guns), restricted (any handgun, any AR or a “derivative” thereof, and semi auto long guns under 28″) and prohibited (Aks, Fals, full auto, etc) which no longer exists (but is grandfathered) and also included handguns under 4.2″ barrels (because concealment 🙄) rendering any still in existence as eternal safe queens. None of the above pertains in any way to the criminal element up here of course but hey: Public Safety™ and all that…

        • Thanks R/S. So I take it Taurus doesn’t sell their 4.0″ revolvers in Canada bacause they’re ‘too easily concealed’. Personally I always found that in terms of carry and concealment a 3″ revolver is roughly equal to a 4″ semi-auto.

        • That’s intriguing. . .

          That means that the difference between a heinous, evil, readily-concealed fully-semi-automatic assault revolver and a friendly, innocuous, societally-acceptable target pistol is that one has a 4″ barrel, and the other has a 4.2″ barrel.

          That’s very similar to the foundational principle for air travel safety, wherein having one’s seat and tray table fully up and locked means that one will surely survive a fiery high-speed airline crash unscathed, while having one’s seat reclined 5 degrees and the tray table down will inevitably result in near-instant, horrific flaming death.

          This new learning amazes me. Explain again how sheep’s bladders can be employed to prevent earthquakes.

    • Canada can only afford healthcare because the U.S. pays for its defense. In effect, we are paying for their healthcare.

  4. They’re still waiting for the citizenry to turn in the (now declared) illegal firearms so their military has something better to use.

    • Did you even read the article?

      Firearms haven’t been declared illegal in Canada, that’s just bullshit you’re spouting.

      • Ghost is referring to the “assault weapons ban” that they passed following the 22 hour shooting in Quebec which has something like a 3% compliance right now. But hey, why would we expect an obvious troll who routinely spouts half facts to actually write a comprehensively true comment? I can understand some of your trolling, and even respect the skill it takes for some of it. But this comment was lazy and ill thought out. Do better Miner

        • His claim was that “firearms are illegal” he made no distinction between pistols or rifles.

          I believe the article is discussing pistols, which are not illegal in Canada.

        • You claimed firearms are illegal in Canada, I pointed out that given the subject of the article, they are not illegal in Canada.

          Your overly broad generalization about firearms in Canada was incorrect.

  5. Why wouldn’t they just choose one of the guns close allies have recently selected, tested and had several years of real world experience and then negotiate the deal and quantity?
    Too easy, I guess?
    By selling off the old ones that could be valuable to collectors, they could do it for a much reduced cost too.

  6. The picture of the High Power in the article is not an Inglis Canadian High Power.

    Although the High Power is still an excellent weapon the cost to produce it for Canada would be higher than a more modern pistol made of plastic, MIM castings and stamped sheet metal.

    The big trend is toward the inferior and idiotic pre-loaded striker fired pistols but they have proven to have very weak ignition systems as compared to hammer fired guns. I might add before the Morons start screaming that the current U.S. pistol is striker fired , it is cocked fully internally and is “not” a Glock style pre-loaded striker fired weapon.

    The problem with striker fired pistols is that “what people cannot see they do not fear” and since the striker fired pistol has no exposed hammer warning of the danger of a ready to fire weapon people, especially many raw recruits, who have never handled a side arm, think that the pistol is safe to use and handle. Without a manual safety and easily seen cocking indicator and a de-cocker, nothing could be further from the truth. The results have been an avalanche of accidents both with civilians and with the police that have used such weapons.

    If the Consumer Safety Commission was in charge of certifying the safety of any firearm pistols like the Glock would never have been allowed on the market. I might add that another strike against the Glock was and is its totally unsafe take down system that requires the user to have the weapon cocked with the slide forward and then he must pull the trigger. Forget just one time to check the chamber and blammo you shoot yourself or someone else and that has happened countless times.

    I think Canada should seriously consider the HK P30s and also the smaller P30sk pistols for a future sidearm as you could adopt no safer system. Or a new model P30 that duplicates the size of the Glock 19 which would enable Canada to adopt just one pistol and not two.

    Here are some of the best attributes of the HK P30 pistol.

    1. It has the bone crushing ignition system of a hammer fired gun as opposed to the anemic ignition systems of pre-loaded striker fired systems.

    2. It has an exposed hammer that warns if the pistol is a full cock and ready to fire.

    3. It has a manual safety that can be put in the “on position” when you load it or unload it.

    4. It has a de-cocker so you do not have to touch the trigger when you de-cock it.

    5. It has a plastic frame that is light weight and rust proof and a very rust proof finish on the slide.

    6. I might add the gun has a safer long double action pull or a single action pull and the safety can be in the “on position” with either method of carry and can also be carried locked and cocked.

    7. It has a loaded chamber indicator

    Lets face facts a double action pistol with the hammer in the down position and with the manual safety “on” is probably the safest design you could use and when dealing with the inexperience and average low intelligence level of military recruits it is probably mandatory.

    HK’s accuracy, and reliability, easy take down, and safe design, due to HK’s fanatical quality control make it the number one choice for a service pistol.

    And if Canada adopts the HK I demand a royalty on each pistol sold due to my slick as an eel advertisement campaign for its adoption. Send all money, gifts and royalties to the my estate at Dacian/getrichquick/@capitalvanian/corruption.com, you will be glad you did.

    • “Come On Man” Glock calls their trigger the Glock “Safe Action”, Just like CNN, they wouldn’t say it, if it wasn’t true.

      For all the haters, I’ve owned two Glocks, but moved on to a CZ P10S and soon will be adding a Walther PDP Compact to the carry rotation. Nothing against hammer fired guns, but I don’t own any, anymore.

      • lil d’s posts do illustrate the application of the “monkey with a typewriter” theory. “A retarded monkey pecking our drivel”

    • It pains me no small amount to say that I actually agreed with most of this, given the source.

  7. Here what happen when Canda try issue Sig p320 to special forces yes same gone replace 92FS buy US.

    SMART BOMBS: MILITARY, DEFENSE, NATIONAL SECURITY AND MORESIG Sauer P320 Guns Pulled From Canadian Special Forces

    ByPeter SuciuPublishedFebruary 10, 2021
    SIG Sauer P320Photograph of a Sig Sauer, Inc. Model P320 Handgun. Image: Creative Commons.

    A weapon should never be more dangerous to its user than an enemy, and tragically history is filled with such tales of small arms that did in fact put the user in harm’s way.

    However, in the modern era, this absolutely should never be the case as gun designs are tested, while prototypes go through rigorous quality control. Despite those facts, earlier this month the Canadian Armed Forces announced that the SIG Sauer P320 was taken out of service after a recent incident in which a soldier was injured in a misfire. The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) reported that a member of Canada’s elite special forces counterterrorism unit was wounded last fall when the handgun went off inexplicably during a training exercise at an Ottawa-area shooting range.

    “One member sustained a minor gunshot injury during the incident, was treated and released the same day, and was returned to duty,” Capt. Ian Grant, a spokesperson for Canadian Special Forces Command (CANSOFCOM) said in a written statement according to the Firearm Blog.
    The P320 pistol is a modular semi-automatic pistol made by SIG Sauer Inc. of Exeter, New Hampshire as well as by SIG Sauer GmbH of Eckernförde, Germany. First introduced in 2014, the sidearm is available in multiple calibers including 9x19mm Parabellum, .357 SIG, .45 S&W, and .45 ACP. It is a short recoil-operated pistol and features a locked-breech Sig Sauer system, which is a refinement of designs based on the work of John Browning and Charles Petter.

    While seen as a reliable pistol for civilian, law enforcement and military use, there had been serious issues with the initial production models of the P320. Some production models were known to have a “drop safety” issue – whereby the firearm could discharge if dropped on a specific angle. The company attempted to address the problem with reduced mass while a new striker disconnect made it drop safe.

    It is unclear if it was a drop safety issue that caused the misfire, which injured a soldier serving with Joint Task Force 2 (JTF-2). CBC reported that the soldier was hit in the leg and received a flesh wound at a firing range at Dwyer Hill, the unit’s principal base. Following an investigation, the Canadian military has withdrawn all of its brand new SIG Sauer P320s from service, and members of JTF-2 will rely on the older SIG Sauer P226 pistols.

    SIG Sauer claims that the soldier wounded in the accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the firearm. “The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge,” SIG explained in a statement.

    According to a source in the Canadian military, as many as 400 of the pistols may have been in service, and those were chambered in the widely used 9mm caliber.

    As has been reported, the issue raised troubling questions about whether proper due diligence was conducted by the Canadian military in its acquisition of a new handgun – especially in light of the fact that there had been misfires of the SIG Sauer P320 in the United States, including one that resulted in a class-action lawsuit that was only settled last summer.

    JTF-2 was the only unit in the Canadian military that had been using the SIG Sauer P320, so the problem has been seen as contained.

      • One day, I decided to open carry my M&P 9c. I placed it in the holster in which I usually carry my G17. It seemed a good fit, so I fastened the thumb-release retention strap and off I went, hiking.

        When I returned to the car, I noticed the pistol no longer had a magazine. What the heck??? Investigating, it became clear that the holster put pressure on the magazine release. Some where along the trail, between that pressure and body motion, the magazine dropped and I did not notice. There was no time to go looking for it…family commitments. So, I lost a mag and 15 rounds of Hornady carry ammo that day because I was not sufficiently careful about the fit between gun (or gunm) and holster.

        I will not make that mistake again.

    • I wish I cared about Canaduh & it’s old gats. I don’t. Get rid of Castro’s kid and it’s ilk and we’ll talk. Yer still protected by the military might(&blood) of America.

      • I sense weakness.

        Perhaps this is our opportunity to take ove Canada, and make it our 51st state, using our superior sidearms, eh?

        • Publius,

          Our hunters may like that, but we do not need to add another collection of socialists to our population.

        • Any country with a national strategic maple syrup reserve (Google it for a chuckle and some education on the Canadian economy) shouldn’t be taken lightly. Probably wouldn’t be worth the hassle.

        • If Canada became the 51first state that would make Texans too jealous. They seem pretty proud of the fact they’re the biggest state in the union.

        • CannotComply,

          Agree. Invading Canada could get us into a sticky situation.

          They released thousands of gallons of syrup from the strategic reserve due to shortages caused by Covid.

        • Hey, WordPress!!!
          Did you really just ban my comment about not wanting to add a collection of socialists to our population??? It was in response to a suggestion that we take over Canada.

          Really?? Thought censorship here on TTAG??

        • darcydodo…RE: “The problem with striker fired pistols is that “what people cannot see they do not fear” and since the striker fired pistol has no exposed hammer warning of the danger of a ready to fire weapon people, especially many raw recruits, who have never handled a side arm, think that the pistol is safe to use and handle. Without a manual safety and easily seen cocking indicator and a de-cocker, nothing could be further from the truth. The results have been an avalanche of accidents both with civilians and with the police that have used such weapons.”

          For once in your normally pathetic dribble you are in the vicinity of correct for the Glock Safe Action Trigger. The little thing in the middle of the trigger keeps the gun from firing as long as nothing interferes with it and the trigger…What is almost never mentioned is anything from a twig to the seam on bluejeans that engages the trigger while the gun is in motion or an object in motion engages the trigger will cause an accidental discharge. Of course ADs with no harm done do not get reported because the individual that allowed it to happen generally keeps their lips sealed.

          Now what to do knowing that Glock Triggers and other safety-less firearms can go bang without a trigger finger? For Glocks there is a nifty piece of fitted rubber available that is inserted behind the trigger and can be removed with a push from the trigger finger faster than releasing most safeties. For other firearms with no safeties the base of an ordinary tire valve stem can be carefully shaped with a bench grinder to fit behind the trigger… it also removes quickly.

          The good thing about a Glock and the Sar9 and such striker designed firearms is they will indicate the chamber is loaded by the trigger being forward when operating the slide. Of course this indicator and safeties and all other such gizmos should never be fully relied on, room for error must be allowed.

      • And we care about you even less, ‘former water walker’. But hey, get rid of your chief usurper clown in charge and his hyena ho and maybe we’ll talk…

  9. They have P-226’s as their alternate sidearm…gave up plastic and striker for metal and hammer. I don’t see a problem.

  10. TTAG,

    WordPress has sensored two of my comments today. Both suggest the Canada is a s0c1alist country. Just want you to be aware that WP seems to be enforcing thought censorship

    • It’s not word press, it’s the in essay and elf bee eye.
      Once they dissect your comment it may post or it may not.

    • “WordPress has sensored two of my comments today.”

      Fear not, they made it through the darkness, and into the light of truth and freedom.

      (I do wish, however, my mentally-ill deranged and demented troll finally wakes up and realizes no one likes him, and just goes away, to wherever it is such defective people go in a state like New Jersey full of others like him… 😉 )

      • Well Geoff the Florida Pervert, you can crap in one hand and ‘hope’ in the other and see which one fills up faster. The only reason I bother to post here is because I know you and a few other cowardly fake patriots that pollute this site ‘don’t like me’. That’s my pleasure, you 🤡.

  11. When y’all get it figured out, ship those grandpa guns down here. We’ll take as many as you can send us. I’ll offer to adopt or foster. 😉

  12. I don’t understand why Canada would want to replace the P-39. It’s one of only a few 9mm’s worth owning. Along with a P-7M8, Glock (model of your choice), maybe Sig 226.

    • They stopped manufacture a LONG time ago and are rapid running out of spare parts and repairability as the guns have been worn hard. Remember this is the Inglis Hi-Power, which doesn’t share parts with the European made ones that FN finally retired production of a few years ago.

  13. Well Canuks, don’t feel like you are alone. The United States is as bad or worse. In the 1950’s the Army looked at the Smith & Wesson Model 39 in 9mm, a mix of the double action trigger of the Walther P38 and the Browning Short Recoil system. The Army refused to act and only a handful were used by Navy SEAL’ s and/or “Special” teams modified to take a 13 round Browning Hi-Power magazine and a slide lock for suppressor use, chiefly to eliminate sentry dogs in Vietnam and some two legged varmints.

    In 1980’s the Italian government agreed to buy F16 Fighter Planes from the US. The purchase agreement demanded that the US buy Italian stuff as an offset to to money spent with the USA on the jets. Despite all the drama of the “Pistols Trials”, Beretta was going to win, even though the SIG P226 was cheaper in the first round of bidding. A second “Do Over” bid was tendered and the Beretta M9, a pistol that used the Walther P38 locking mechanism and a Hi-Power like magazine, was selected as demanded by the politicians in and out of uniform.

    Despite this, the SEALs rejected the Beretta and purchased SIG P226 pistols, designated MK25. Later on “Big” Navy purchased the SIG P228 Compact version of the P226 for use by pilots and NCIS personnel, designated M11 and later M11A1.

    The latest stupidity was the last pistol trials that lasted forever and cost millions to run. The last 2 finalists were the Glock 19X and the SIG M17/18. The Army decided to forego the last set of tests, shooting all the pistols to destruction, to measure the long term durability and
    determine the true life cycle cost of each firearm. Special Ops had already adopted the Glock 19 and later the Glock 17, many years prior. Even the SEAL’s dumped their SIG MK25’s for the Glock, as they were easier to detail strip after immersion in Salt Water, than was the SIG.

    We know from the track record of the Glocks that they are very durable and reliable. Catastrophic failure occurs at around 80,000 to 100,000 rounds, when the slide cracks and breaks at the ejection port area. Obviously other parts do wear and break and need replacement, but the pistol is 100% scrap at 80k to 100k rounds. The ammo expended to get to this point is many times the cost of the actual handgun.

    The SIG was and is an unknown pistol, as it is relatively new and does not have a proven track record with any large police or military forces. Perhaps it is as good as the Glock, but we really don’t know, as the Army didn’t care to know either. The troops wanted the Glock and the Army Political Generals wanted the SIG, therefore SIG was declared the winner after the bidding process.

    The good news, is at least we have new pistols to replace the worn out Beretta M9’s.

    See Canada, things aren’t so bad. The best choice for Canada would either be to adopt the Glock 17 like the UK or Glock 19X that uses Glock 17 magazines. Or go with the SIG M18, like most of the US Services have purchased, except the Coast Guard who changed their mind and dumped the SIG M18 for Glocks. GOOD LUCK.

  14. As an aside, the Army also adopted the Leupold Delta Point Pro, an unproven optic that has poor battery life and breaks often. Again the real trigger pullers know that only the Trijicon RMR and the new Aimpoint ACRO’s can stand up to hard use and they refuse to use the sub-standard Leupold optic and most have retained their RMR’s and purchased the new SOCOM variant RMR’s, designed to meet their needs.

  16. Now that CZ has a large Canadian factory, just buy P-07s on the condition they get made in Canada and have an optics plate.

    • No one is adopting hammer fired single/double action guns. Like it or not, it;s a striker fired world now. The CZ P10 series of guns would be a valid choice, but I doubt Canada is that smart.

  18. Right now it looks like they’d send an FA18 to flatten out the closest legion hall if Trudy told them to. Until they’re willing to protect the Canadian people from tyranny, they don’t need any gun, much less new ones.

    • It happened to me as well, Deborah.

      It eventually popped back up, much the same way a mentally-ill demented troll always seems to return like a vile fart… 😉

  21. Being a former member of the US federal procurement system, I thought we were beyond salvaging. Then I read this article, and associated links.

  22. @John in AK

    “That’s very similar to the foundational principle for air travel safety, wherein having one’s seat and tray table fully up and locked means that one will surely survive a fiery high-speed airline crash unscathed, while having one’s seat reclined 5 degrees and the tray table down will inevitably result in near-instant, horrific flaming death.”

    The two precautions you speak of are not designed to protect you from kinetic forces in a crash. They are designed to give you the maximum amount of potentially unobstructed space is the plane needs quick evacuation in an emergency. Crashes are a whole ‘nuther country. An aircraft is not always completely obliterated in a crash, and it is possible that large portions of the aircraft remain upright, though damaged. Again, the tray and seat backs in a “stowed” position could remove an impediment to quick exit. Same for not having baggage stored under the seat ahead, as that baggage can become flying debris.

    The most effective preventative against major aircraft damage in a crash is to assemble aircraft using Flex-Seal, rather than rivets.

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