By Dylan Lovan, AP
Despite mounting public pressure to file criminal charges nearly five months after Breonna Taylor’s death, prosecutors may face significant obstacles to bringing homicide-related charges against police officers who were shot at when sent to her house with a warrant, legal experts said.
Tensions have swelled in her home town and spread far afield as activists, professional athletes and social media stars push for action while investigators plead for more patience. The warrant also has been called into question and, with federal officials looking into potential civil rights abuses, the case could reach beyond the officers on the scene that night.
Taylor, a 26-year-old Louisville emergency medical tech studying to become a nurse, was shot multiple times March 13 after being roused from sleep by police at her door. The warrant was approved as part of a narcotics investigation into a suspect who lived across town, and no drugs were found at her home.
Attorney General Daniel Cameron, the first African American elected to the job in Kentucky, has declined to put a timetable on his decision since taking over the case in May.
“It’s a tough issue. He has to figure out whether there’s probable cause to believe that there was an unreasonable use of force” by the officers, said Christopher Slobogin, director of the criminal justice program at Vanderbilt University. Slobogin said attorneys for the officers would certainly raise the warrant as a defense in a criminal case.
Cameron has seen increasing pressure from protesters in recent weeks. Dozens of activists who went to his Louisville home were arrested after they wouldn’t leave his yard, and last week, an armed militia marched into downtown and demanded that Cameron make his decision within a month. Taylor’s family and multiple cultural luminaries — from LeBron James to Oprah Winfrey — have called for three police officers who were at her home to be charged with her killing. Oprah put Taylor on the cover of her O magazine this month.
Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenny Walker, was with her at the apartment and fired a shot at Louisville police Sgt. Jonathan Mattingly after the door was broken down. Mattingly was struck in the leg and returned fire, along with other officers who were outside the apartment.
Taylor, unarmed, was shot several times in her hallway and died on the scene. The officers on the scene were not wearing body cameras and the department has said there is no video of the raid.
The warrant they were carrying has come under scrutiny, and the police lieutenant who sought it, Joshua Jaynes, has been placed on administrative leave during the investigation. Attorneys for Taylor’s family said it was based on erroneous information that a drug dealer was sending packages to Taylor’s apartment.
The FBI is investigating the case for civil rights violations, and agents at its state-of-the-art crime lab in Quantico, Virginia, are examining evidence.
Walker told police investigators he heard knocking but didn’t know who was at the door. Police had secured a controversial no-knock warrant that allows for sudden entry, but Mattingly insisted to investigators they knocked and announced themselves before entering.
Louisville has since banned no-knock warrants in a local ordinance named for Taylor.
Slobogin and other experts noted that it may be challenging for prosecutors to push for charges against police officers who were shot at, prompting them to fire back.
The warrant, “combined with the fact that they were fired upon, would make for a powerful defense argument that they acted in valid self-defense while conducting a lawful police operation,” said Sam Marcosson, a University of Louisville law professor who has closely watched the local case.
Marcosson and Slobogin said if the warrant were proven to be obtained fraudulently, the officers would have had to be aware of that, another difficult legal hurdle.
Police department protocol allows the use of lethal force when officers feel threatened, giving some measure of latitude to their judgment at the time.
But the warrant does not necessarily immunize the police, Slobogin said. Even if they had a valid no-knock warrant and properly announced themselves, “blazing away, the way they did, arguably is an excessive use of force.”
One of the officers involved, Brett Hankison, was fired in June. A termination letter said the officer violated procedures by showing “extreme indifference to the value of human life” by “wantonly and blindly” shooting 10 rounds into Taylor’s apartment. It’s not yet clear whose bullets struck Taylor. Mattingly and Myles Cosgrove remain on administrative leave.
Sam Aguiar, an attorney for Taylor’s family who is suing the three officers, said the police shot an innocent person.
“Breonna did not shoot at them and posed no threat,” Aguiar said in an email to AP. “Mattingly clearly says (in his testimony) he sees a female without a firearm and a male with a firearm. He and the others don’t get a license to keep shooting an unarmed female simply because they are confronted by an armed male.”
Aguiar said the officers “created the initial threat” and Hankison should be charged with attempted murder for his recklessness.
Louisville’s top criminal prosecutor, who recused himself from the Taylor investigation, has pointed to the confusion over whether Taylor and Walker knew the police were at the door. Tom Wine dropped an attempted murder charge against Walker in May and has said he believes the police announced themselves at least three times before knocking down the door.
At a news conference in late May, Wine played sections of testimony from Walker and Mattingly, who said he and the other officers were called in that night for extra manpower in a large-scale drug operation.
“It’s possible there was no criminal activity on either side of that door because no one could hear what the other party is saying,” Wine said.
Since Wine made those statements, the city’s police chief has been fired, the FBI’s Louisville office called the case their “top priority” and Taylor’s name has spread to protests against racial injustice around the world.
“..Louisville has since banned no-knock warrants in a local ordinance named for Taylor…”
That’s the minimum that can be done, more is needed.
Like what?
@Mark Martin ~The 100% positive identification of the address signed off on by a higher ranking officer who will be held accountable no questions asked.
Also, and this is more for the legislature to act on, if the police destroy your house searching for somebody that is not there, never has been there, or some criminal holes up in said house…The police insurance carrier pays..again, no questions asked.
https://www.denverpost.com/2019/10/30/swat-team-destroyed-greenwood-village-familys-home-police-dont-have-to-pay-for-damages/
I’m sure that’s a relief for Ms. Taylor that the police’s insurance will cover her possessions that were damaged by the officers in the raid.
It would seem that a mistaken address was not the issue here as it was with some other examples. They knocked down the door they meant to, the one that was in the warrant, and the one for which they provided evidence of.
But it was still the ‘wrong’ door.
90% of the crap I get in the mail goes strait in to the garbage. I can’t help but wonder if stuff gets sent to my address, then skimmed by somebody else before I even go to the mail box. If this is the standard for a no-knock warrant and getting shot in my own house, then I sure hope some low life isn’t sending ME mail.
I would end qualified immunity.
I know that that will cause many to decide, “I don’t want to be a cop, if I’m going to be sued into non existence by an accident”. But, to quote john McClane, “Welcome to the party pal!”
We have two standards, one for thee and one for me. They can make mistakes…and just shrug it off and go home. They may be haunted by these mistakes, or they may not care, but lives are ruined.
This one is an extreme example, but there are many more, where peoples property has been destroyed by police simply because they can.
Make the cop individually responsible for his actions, not just some amorphous “department”. Make the cop carry a variant of “errors and omissions” insurance. Like many of us in the non-protected class have to do every day for our screw ups. I drive professionally, I don’t get qualified immunity if I drive into a bus while doing my job.
Would this have prevented Brionna Taylor? No, likely not. But what it would do would cause police to triple check there info before they knock in a door.
And that, may well have stopped this from happening.
Federal law requires jurisdictions to take responsibility for police actions taken WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THE LAW and WITHIN POLICY. Some of these guys were fired the next day and others were on non-paid leave pending termination (very irregular for a “good shoots”) hence their actions aren’t covered by law or policy and the individual officers are being held to account. As far as I can tell it has always been that way. Now, some departments have stretched that umbrella to cover some heinous deeds performed by individual cops, but I don’t think that’s the case here.
That being said, it would be interesting to see what law enforcement would evolve in to *if* liability were to fall on the shoulders of the individual officer without any department cover. I could imagine individual street cops having legal debates outside Columbine H.S. (while the gunshots are going off) and calling their lawyers and insurance agents to see what their coverage is….. think I’m joking.
Somebody needs to be charged with murder (by bureaucratic incompetence).
This is a ridiculously blatant example of why the “war on drugs” is only damaging liberty and literally killing innocent people.
The level of cognitive dissonance required to support drug laws in general and no-knock raids in particular when practiaclly no one trusts government at any level must require constant effort to fight back the confusion and think over the roar.
Like:
1) fixing qualified immunity. It was originally a reasonable thing. (to protect a cop from a civil suit if he is acting appropriately). But due to a couple of Supreme court rulings now essentially gives cops free rein.
2) Changing the Warrior Cop culture. Cops exist to protect and SERVE the community. Not to protect themselves. Its not all about “Going home at the end of the day”. If a procedure, protocol, or standing order is put in place for officer safety that increases the danger to the public, then it should not exist.
3) No more Lenco Bearcats. No more cops playing dress up like soldiers. No more flash-bangs. I’m not saying they have to go back to revolvers. If there is a hostage situation or some other situation for which SWAT was originally developed, great, arm them to the teeth. But using no-knock dynamic entry on a suspected drug offender is just man-boys wanting to kick some ass and use their toys.
Please realize that I’m not in any way anti-cop. I’m anti-bad cop. I’m VERY pro-good cop. One example is in my home town. Where a cop will help you change a tire. They drive patrol cars and wear normal unitorms. SWAT is not called for anything but when it is actually needed. I’ve lived here 10 years and there hasn’t been a single swat raid anywhere.
The problem here is not the police who were just doing their jobs. It is the Court system and the District Attorney who issued the orders to perform a “No Knock” warrant and kill anyone who resisted. They made the mistakes on the address and who would be present, and they should never have authorized this “raid” except during regular daylight hours and with all officers in full uniform and the warrants handed to the person who opened the door. There was no urgency to this warrant – none. If they truly though the bad guy was there (which apparently he never ever was), they could have done simple “stake out” to catch him. Bad acts by the DA and the Court that issued the totally defective warrant. Sue them, they are the bad guys here. The cops just followed orders! They are immune from any legal action!
The killing of Miss Taylor was far more egregious than that of Mr. Floyd. It just wasn’t caught on camera to be seen by the world.
The judge who signed this warrant needs to be held accountable. Miss Taylor’s blood is on the judge’s hands. Removal from the bench would be a good start. Serious prison time makes sense.
If you think police enjoy unreasonable immunity for their official acts, I’ve got bad news for you- prosecutors have even stronger immunity and judges enjoy absolute immunity for their official acts.
Changing that along with the police should be a focus of reforms.
Agreed.
This right here. Everybody is focusing on the low-level guys who seem to have simply been fed bad info from unscrupulous higher ups and are now being sacrificed on the alter of CYA. Granted, maybe one or all of them used excessive force, but considering they were fired upon returning with overwhelming fire is kinda the standard procedure for a gunfight in for mil, LE, and generally even regular joes. It’s a shitty situation and I suspect no one actually at that shootout, either the fuzz or the homeowner, should be held criminally accountable for it if the accounts given thus far are truthful. I would have fired if fired at if I was told I was conducting a drug raid as well as if someone I couldn’t see announced themselves as police (or didn’t at all) and my door then got splintered in.
No-knocks need to be done away with for all but the most extreme organized crime and terrorist targets. Like a seriously high bar should be met for authorization.
“Granted, maybe one or all of them used excessive force, but considering they were fired upon returning with overwhelming fire is kinda the standard procedure for a gunfight in for mil, LE, and generally even regular joes.”
Really? Once shot at, the policy is to shoot every indidual in sight, regardless of whether armed, or threatening?
“Oh, there was a lot of noise and shooting, and I couldn’t see who was doing what, so I just laid down suppressive fire; unfortunate collateral damage.” ????
SOP for the NYPD is to blast everyone in sight except for the bad guy.
And what was the “source” of the information used to request a no knock warrant?
Probably a snitch who volunteered the information in exchange for a green light or a lighter sentence. And snitches are considered by police to be more trustworthy and reliable than citizens.
No, it was a LMPD detective who lied on the search warrant affidavit when he said that a US Postal Inspector told police that the target of the investigation (Taylor’s ex-boyfriend from more than a year previous) had been receiving packages at her address. The primary Postal Inspector for Louisville has gone on record that his office told the police no such thing and that for an inspector from another city to say something like that without involving the local PIS office would be absolutely unheard of.
I don’t know about Louisville, but Federally, snitches have to prove their “trustworthiness”. Citizen reports are most likely to be believed because in the eyes of federal courts, citizens have nothing to gain by reporting, and so it is assumed they’re reporting in good faith.
A lot of Nazis were ‘just following orders’, too.
Oh, c’mon! Please do not bring that Nazi’s BS. Unless those cops knew exactly who lived at that address, and the order was to kill everyone. With all due respect to the guys with badges, those aren’t psychology or physics PhDs storming the houses at night, they HAVE to follow orders. And under given circumstances they practically had no time to realize that the orders they had were criminally negligent. I am surprised neither judge’s, nor whoever’s authorized the operation or requested said warrant, heads had not yet rolled. There’s top brass who should be held responsible for killing and wounding innocent people as well as endangering the officers on the ground. Whoever decided so that they can wear plain clothes, no bodycams and go in the middle of the night without knocking to some random address with no evidence of prior criminal activity is a criminal. Unless someone on either side is actually dirty and the media is mute about it. This whole situation is simply heartbreaking and stinks beyond any sense, but I hope they don’t just put some unlucky scapegoats up for sacrifice to defuse the racial tensions, but pinpoint whose arrogance and negligence had actually led to it. It could have been anyone trying to defend themselves in the middle of the night. All cats are grey in the dark.
Well, let’s see……theymalready assumed someone would be there who wasnt.
Then they killed half the occupants of the dwelling after busting in the door.
Closer to the Nazis than they should be.
Poor police work. Poor situational analysis. Stormtrooper tactics. Adrenaline jack.
What could possibly go wrong?
These need to stop.
Going in plainclothes meant they didn’t want to be identified as cops, which means this was less of a bust and more like a shakedown.
The police didn’t hit the wrong address. From other articles, it said that her ex-boyfriend was the target of the investigation, and they suspected him of receiving UPS packages at her address. I’m skeptical that her current boyfriend would be ok with the ex routinely dropping by. Regardless of whether the ex was receiving packages, there was anything illegal about the packages, or that Breonna knew about there was something illegal in the packages, the whole raid was messed up. The police were in plain clothes. If it was a “high-risk” entry that required no=knock, shouldn’t they have been in armor clearly marked as police? Even if they fired on her boyfriend in defense, why was hit not hit once, and and unarmed, innocent women was struck several times. That’s terrible marksmanship and decision making. Basic safety: know you’re target and what’s beyond it. If an officer’s family was standing in the same position as Breonna, would he have taken the shot? The officer outside firing through a window with closed blinds is a total dumb shit and he deserves more than losing his job. All that points to poor training and hiring on LPD’s part.
I’d be happy to see a national “Breonna’s Law” that banned no-knock raids for any purpose other than a person is endangered (believed to be holding a kidnap victim, etc). Change sentencing laws to be based on the original volume of a container with drug residue if you’re worried about evidence being flushed away.
There were no packages coming to her address for the ex. The affidavit for the warrant claimed that a US Postal Inspector told LMPD that such packages had been delivered there but the actual Postal Inspector in responsible for Louisville has stated openly in the press that he told LMPD no such thing.
Its also possible he did and is now lying that he didn’t.
“Just following orders” isn’t going to cut it.
The DA and judge may have screwed up and I’m happy to see them held responsible, however the cops pulled the triggers. They shot the wrong people, and “oppsiedoodle” isn’t going to make that go away.
I’m willing to to let the system stand, for this incident as the cops were following the rules that existed at the time, but the rules have to change.
BLM may be a bunch of racist rioting thugs, but they are not wrong about the need for systemic changes in how things are done with regards civil and criminal liability of the cop on the street.
Man, what a clusterfuck. Except for hostage situations a no knock entry should never be used. And all cops, from rookie traffic cops to all the detectives to the top officers should be wearing uniforms.
I’d rather see a few bad guys slide than anymore unarmed innocent folk getting shot.
As for a federal civil rights case I’d like to see them brought against the folks stepping on my 2a rights.
“I’d rather see a few bad guys slide than anymore unarmed innocent folk getting shot.”
Preach it, brother.
Those responsible were who directed the clusterfuck and supervised it…
“That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer, is a Maxim that has been long and generally approved.”
— Ben Franklin
Too bad the “Maxim that has been long and generally approved” does not apply with equal authority to innocent Persons shot dead.
When i was a peace officer for more than 20 years we actually observed drug activity, took careful notes, watched those coming and going, and then initiated a traffic stop at some point, found drugs or did not, put the offender on ice for a little while at the jail, and ran and got a warrant from the judge- and then executed the warrant. There was never any question. We saw the crime in progress. We had a fellow at the jail cooling his heels so he did not tip off the drug house. The investigating officers served the warrant. We did not hand it over to a ‘special team’ we did not have one. Some of these things are an eye opener for some of us old school cops. I thought everyone did it the way we did it. I guess not. Sure sometimes we used a buyer to go and buy drugs but it isnt really that hard to do. Thought everyone knew the right way to conduct an investigation. Where in the hell do they get these guys how does it happen?
I don’t think the ” I was just following orders” line works anymore. The cops took their oath and they still followed their orders. Police better shape up before everyone turns against them. I’m tired of hearing about a law abiding citizen taking fire when they defend their home against criminals with badges that followed orders and probably got the strong house anyway.
Coming down on the side of losing some guilty instead of infringing on the innocent was the way our country was supposed to work. No knock raids are ridiculous and especially so with the ever looming spread of “red flag laws”.
Well said!
What a cluster…..
The inability of the PD to know/understand/determine that the suspect named in the warrant was already in custody should be declared negligent, and the leadership of the PD charged with negligent homicide. That the on-scene commander did not check the latest status of information concerning the whereabouts of the named suspect should be actionable. That the on-scene commander lost control of his detail (one cop shooting without determining the target) should be actionable.
Cops on a raid cannot help but be amped-up for a gunfight. That alone presents a situation most likely to go bad. Once that tunnel vision sets in, it is most difficult to accept changed circumstances, regardless of what the eye actually sees.
I am usually on the side of the LEOs, but so far as its been reported the LEOs were in the wrong. No camera footage either, so they get no support from me. They were looking for someone who was in custody already. Thats whats been reported before. Also, no matter what a piece of paper says, if you are looking for someone and they are in custody and you end up killing someone because of that error that is your fault. With great power comes great responsibility.
In this era of cheap electronics there is only ONE reason that departments aren’t running cameras….and that is that you’re trying to hide something. I will take the view that a no-camera police department is guilty until proven innocent.
Don’t give me any bullshit that they are too expensive because my first response will be to ask you what your yearly donut budget is.
The police chief should be fired.
The city council who didn’t properly oversee the budget should get booted from office.
It’s not that cameras are expensive, it’s the necessary storage space needed for 7 years of video or whatever the State mandates for record keeping. Terabytes of drive space someone has to maintain either in-house or outsourced.
That doesnt take up that much space. A 1tb memory card is the size of a finger.
“That doesnt take up that much space. A 1tb memory card is the size of a finger.”
Yeah, but…
Those SD cards are little. They get dropped and stepped on, sometimes swept up with the trash. Besides, you can’t write any identifying marks on them, making chronological storage difficult.
Of course, there is always “the Cloud” (wherever that is). Data/video can be stored there forever, managed and backed up by someone else. Kinda in expensive vs. hard assets managed by dozens of administrative types at the cop house.
The bad thing about clouds is that they can be hacked.
These officers were in plain clothes for some reason. I can understand not having a black box the size of a pack of cigarettes on their chest when wearing street clothes, but why were they doing a raid in plain clothes? A plate carrier or protective vest should have been worn, and those should have had cameras.
The knock is for the cops protection. They should be charged.
it’s not like they finally had a cop killer cornered. they new it was a gal and involved illicit sales/ distribution. maybe she hung with tough hombres but still. just because these tactics have been successful previously is not a good reason to continue them when outcomes like this are too likely.
they’ll get charged, crappy timing as far as that goes. i don’t think any of them did something wrong (well, overzealous) and that’s the problem
I don’t know. This article is the first mention I’ve seen that the first shot fired struck a police officer. Seems like an awful lot of the “facts” conflict with each other. Not sure I can get behind prosecuting the line officers, but there sure should be some changes. No-knock in street clothing is simply crazy, should be seriously illegal. Nighttime actions without uniforms in the front likewise. Hollywood needs to STFU. And somebody needs to write a damn book on how that warrant was obtained.
Consider this scenario: a regular visitor to the apartment, familiar with the layout, sees the front door battered down and fires a shot. Then the cops start mag-dumping in response and he takes cover after his first shot and soon realizes that the intruders are police. Doesn’t seem unlikely that he would have made his first (and subsequently only) shot count like that. There are plenty of other inconsistencies, though, starting with the heavily redacted incident report that denies that the door was forced and that no injury occured to occupant(s).
Why are we going after the police officers who executed the warrant? With the information they were presumably given, they believed they were doing the right thing. Including shooting at someone who shot at them.
Understand that I believe both parties were right to open fire with the information they had at the time.
We should be going after the people who issued the warrant. They should be held accountable.
The issue of people innocently defending their homes is a problem with no-knock raids. That a shootout occurred is sad, but understandable, from the officers perspective. That they shot a completely innocent bystander should be considered negligence at a criminal level.
If the people in that apartment were law abiding citizens doing NOTHING wrong, the cops should burn. Before starting to shoot people, those cops should have KNOWN, absolutely, exactly who was in there and what they had done wrong, plus!!! why they could not be arrested by phone, in the morning.
The cops were told that the people in the apartment were criminals.
You should focus your attention instead on the person who issued the warrant instead. Hold them accountable for providing the wrong address, and for not canceling the warrant once the criminal they wanted was captured.
Chris, criminals are to be arrested, not shot 10 times. If you are SURE the people in that apartment are criminals, then post somebody outside the window and call them on the phone and demand they come out with their hands up. Because if you bust in MY door in the middle of the night, I will light you up. If you call me, I will insist on a uniformed cop to surrender to, and then there will be no shooting. This is not the wild west.
The cops executing the warrant believed the people in the apartment were criminals. From their perspective, it was a criminal shooting at them.
The blame lies 100% on the person who issued the warrant.
Again, this entire mess never should have happened, and I completely disagree with no knock warrants in most situations. I just believe we are wrongly focusing on the cops instead of going after the person that issued the warrant, with the wrong address, and didn’t cancel it after the correct criminal was captured.
In this day and age, if you’re a cop on a police force without cameras then I’m going to assume you’re doing that to cover up your illegal actions.
Simple as that.
So they have no culpability for the fact they that chose to conduct the raid in plain clothes?
Who needs to he charged are the ass- hats that okayed the idea of no-knock warrants.
But the system has slid down the toilet even further and now this is common.
“We were just doing our job” is bullshit. It is never your job break into someone’s house and kill them .
If you kill an innocent person in their house…there is no way they can ever be at fault.
From the cops who asked for the warrant to the judge who signed it and the administrators who put the policy in place……guilty!
Eliminate immunity and pay out any awards from the police pension fund. You would see things change in a hurry.
At the same time, get rid of police unions, and make all police disciplinary records public.
How is that different than today? All Qi does is shift the liability to the jurisdiction.
Having your life’s savings held in jeopardy for a successful civil suit tends to alter behavior more than threatening a municipality with millions of dollars that probably won’t even discipline you if they lose the suit.
If your house, life’s savings, career, etc. are on the line, you’ll take great care in your decision making.
What is the percentage of prosecutions in your estimation?
Most of the cases (before now) I’ve seen – the cops walk and the state, city, county, etc pay the bill.
Needs to be more of a criminal approach.. cops and administrators and magistrates.
Civil is about money…..criminal is more likely to see things change.
Supposedly the guy they were looking for had already been arrested an hour or so before the raid that killed Taylor. What a shitshow. The incompetence and lack of care for the lives of the public really blows my mind. The people who arrested the guy and failed to alert the other officers raiding Taylor’s place should be disciplined as well, and if they didn’t know about the other raid, then whoever was supervising the larger operation should be disciplined for failing to ensure that the two teams were aware and communicating with each other.
If the prosecution overreaches on the charges the guilty will walk away. This is some level of negligent homicide, excessive force, incompetence and failures up and down the chain of command that could fill volumes.
This claim of identifying themselves three times cannot be trusted. Even if they did as they claim, at that late hour the expectation that people sound asleep would hear, awaken, comprehend and comply all within the few seconds given them is an impossibility.
How many people on TTAG, if slammed awake in the dark of night to a great noise and commotion and dark figures busting in their door would think anything other than HOME INVASION!!! How many here would reach for whatever their defensive gun of choice by the bed would be, purely on reflex?
Yes, all involved with authority deserve punishment. Every level that authorized this incompent and deadly raid deserves punishment. The officers on scene who made such a mockery of protecting the innocent deserve punishment.
They created the scenario where a law abiding citizen reasonably believed he and his girlfriend were being attacked by violent home invaders. As the police created the scenario, they areto blame for every shot fired by both sides, and for all damages, injuries and death.
They didn’t execute the raid as a no knock. Walker admitted that he fired first because he didn’t think they were really the police. Why would he say that if the police didn’t identify themselves? Why would Walker think it was a middle of the night home invasion if he didn’t know that Taylor’s ex was a drug dealer?
Her ex was a drug dealer? Why, that’s grounds for summary execution right there!
That is stupid statement unbecoming of you. We know that Walker fired first by his own admission. She was collateral. Blame her boy friend.
“Why would Walker think it was a middle of the night home invasion if he didn’t know that Taylor’s ex was a drug dealer?”
Wut? So, if a some people boot your door down at 0300 tonight you’ll just assume it’s misinformed cops with a legit warrant and the wrong address?
According to the DOJ’s 2010 study 28% of the yearly 3.7 million burglaries are home invasions and 7% involve violence against someone in the home. That’s 1,036,000 home invasions 259,000 victims of violence during a home invasion per year.
Somehow I doubt that’s all drug dealers getting their stash hit by a rip crew. In fact, we know it’s not because one of the few nice services the NRA has done us is to write up a few of the truly righteous shoots when this happens every month in American Rifleman.
You got to have your narrative don’t you? The reason her name and location were on the warrant was because her ex was drug dealer. They hit his stash house first. During the course of the investigation they observed him bringing packages in and out her house. Ever think that is why he was her ex? I am sure Walker knew her ex was a dealer which is why says he didn’t believe it was really the police. You can’t seem to admit that he shot first and the poluce had a legitimate warrant. If the police didn’t announce then why did he claim that he didn’t believe it was police? Everybody loves their narratives, facts be damned.
I suggest you watch Brandon Tatum’s two videos on this. He actually researched the documentation.
You aren’t any different than the hands up don’t shoot crowd.
“I am sure Walker knew her ex was a dealer which is why says he didn’t believe it was really the police.”
Oh, so you read minds now. Do you do lottery numbers in your spare time?
“You can’t seem to admit that he shot first and the poluce [sic] had a legitimate warrant.”
I never denied either of these things. You claiming that I did doesn’t make it so.
The simple fact of the matter here is that your assertions rest on unproven assumptions. You assume he knew things about her ex. You assume the cops are telling the truth about what they did even though they admit that they were not following the warrant which was a no-knock, yet they knocked for… what reason? You’re assuming that Walker has a flawless memory of exactly what happened and that he’s been quoted exactly.
I assume none of these things. And I know that there are other possible reasons that could easily explain why he believed he was the victim of a home invasion rather than a police raid, none of which you can dismiss without conjecture.
From what I’ve read about this Walker has said that he “…heard aggressive banging at the door and asked who it was, but they did not hear an announcement that it was the police.” Now, it’s possible that they made one and he missed it. I don’t know. It’s also been claimed that the 911 call contains information where Walker states that “somebody kicked in the door and shot my girlfriend.” which runs counter to your narrative that he knew they were cops. But again, I haven’t heard the 911 call.
I simply think that when the cops kill someone that they need to explain themselves fully. If they can do so, then great. If not, well that’s a problem. I also think that no-knocks provide a lot of room for tactical tomfuckery and for just run-of-the-mill error on both sides. They therefore should be used very sparingly, which they’re not.
The fact here is that I don’t have a narrative. You do..
Prove that Walker admitted any such thing. The 911 call was released, he did not say what you claim. No neighbors heard any calls of “POLICE!”. The prosecutor dropped charges against Walker AFTER the Grand jury brought an indictment, which normally means the prosecutor does not believe the police are telling the truth.
Walker need not have known anything at all about Taylor’s prior dataing or friends. Why should Walker think anything other than home invasion? It is after midnight, suddenly the door is crashed open and dark figures try to storm in. What would you think is going on if not a criminal attack?
His statement to the police, not the 911 call. Remember he fired the first shot which is a criminal offense.
Wrong. Somebody busts down your door in the middle of the night you have the right to defend yourself. If the police did not want to be shot at they should not have falsified the warrant and then failed to identify themselves. They should have acted with due diligence, staked the place out, gathered video evidence of the comings and goings. Instead they lied about a single package delivery that had nothing at all to do with drugs.
You do realize that citizens have been exonerated in the past under similar circumstances, right? You do realize the prosecution has already shown they do not believe the officer’s claims?
Police routinely commit acts of heroism and risk their lives to enforce the law,, that much is true and admirable and is absolutely the opposite of what happened in this case.
You Thin Blue Line types are truly evil. If an LEO was caught on camera raping a six year old girl you’d find some way to justify his actions
Somebody kicks in my door yelling they are cops better have badges and bright letters on their chest.
And even then they’ll probably get shot.
I wouldn’t immediately start shooting….I WOULD IDENTIFY MY TARGET BEFORE SHOOTING…. THE POLICE DID NOT SHOOT FIRST, THEREFORE THEY ARE NOT AT FAULT….. PERIOD…..
IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET BEFORE SHOOTING….. PRETTY FKN SIMPLE….
He identified his target all right! Multiple visibly armed men in street clothes(NOT uniforms) who had broken down his door in the middle of the night. That is the definition of a home invasion, in response to which the use of lethal force is legally justified in most jurisdictions
For offenses this grievous, not only the officers directly involved need to be charged, but their superiors who ordered them there aught to be charged as well. As well as the city council members who’ve been allowing, and probably encouraging this type of behavior.
What magazine cover do Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas get to be on after having been murdered in a no-knock raid orchestrated by a lying black cop? Oh, never mind, they’re white.
Exactly….. I’m DISGUSTED by the crocodile tears of these ghetto dwellers and their drugs…. you got caught, DO THE TIME…. YOU DON’T GET TTI BREAK LAWS AND THEM BECOME THE VICTIM…. LIFE DOESN’T WORK THAT WAY AND IT’S GONNA RIGHT ITSELF AND THE GHETTO DWELLERS WILL UNDERSTAND THAT FIRST…. OBVIOUSLY…
And not forget..
https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/02/26/texas-couple-killed-houston-police-raid-not-criminals/
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/houston-police-to-end-no-knock-raids-after-four-officers-shot/#comments
I don’t have an EZ answer here. I don’t think every case is “raciss” but there seems a gross lack of “giving a damn”. Anywho has anyone else seen the po-leece in Aurora,Colorado who stopped a black woman for stealing a car? With her CHILDREN handcuffed facedown on the pavement??? One a 6 year old! Oops-motorcycle with the same plate. Riot over THAT!
https://www.1011now.com/2020/08/04/police-apologize-after-black-girls-handcuffed-in-stolen-car-mixup-in-colorado/
I’ll settle for convicting the judge who issued the warrant and sentencing him to lethal injection.
The cops were just doing what the judge authorized them to do, until somebody started shooting at them (not that I believe he didn’t have the right to defend his home with deadly force).
The judge issues a warrant based on a sworn affidavit from the police that they have probable cause a crime is being committed. To get a no knock they have to further claim that they have reason to believe that announcing themselves would put them at risk of attack or allow the suspect time to destroy evidence. The guy that signed that is the culprit.
But, this is indicative of a larger problem- police routinely ask for unneeded no knock warrents and judges sign pretty much anything put in front of them. They are not asking the probative questions to determine if the request is valid and safeguarding citizens rights like they are supposed to.
The justice system is a machine, and they’re not going to let a little thing like your rights or following the law get in the way of the machine steaming along.
They gave the judge the false information that convinced him to sign off. Rico them all. They’re all guilty.
It sure has been fun listening to people who support red flag laws screech in outrage over Breonna Taylor’s death. You retards support giving random white Karens with phones the right to order the same on anyone they wish.
Speaking for myself, I do not support any such notion about Red Flag laws or any similar.
Most 2A supporters who are disgusted by Breonna’s murder are against redflag laws. Maybe this guy is confused by BLM types who support Breonna but not because of her right to shoot intruders or to own a gun.
I see Oprah’s magazine cover featuring Breonna saying,”if you turn a blind eye to racism, you become an accomplice to it.”
I’m wondering just WTF Breonnas death has to do with racism? Maybe someone can explain to me, I went to Kentucky schools so I ain’t the sharpest pencil in the drawer.
“I’m wondering just WTF Breonnas death has to do with racism?”
Oh, puuuullllleeeesssse. Anytime a “minority” person is shot by police, it is nothing but pure racississesism. The only reason any person/entity of color is harmed, denied, frustrated, is pure racississesism.
Where have you been?
Yep! Also this sort of thing happens EXCLUSIVELY to black people. Duncan Lemp? James Boyd? Justine Demond? Daniel Shaver? Nah, those are right wing myths. Those shootings didn’t happen, because the victims were white and that’s simply not possible
“I’m wondering just WTF Breonnas death has to do with racism?”
The exact same as George Floyd and Rayshard Brooks, which is nothing. Weak-minded ignorant fools are being played like a fiddle.
Some argue that Louisville PD was doing these noknock illegal raids based on fake info to poor and minorities figuring they can’t fight back legally and are ignorant of their rights. I haven’t seen pictures of the cops to know if they aren’t black. No matter their race they’re murderers and criminals. Oprah is just being an attention h0rrr.
The only thing that will stop this no-knock raid crap is for a lot more cops to die while doing an impersonation of bad guys kicking in your door. If you are acting like a home invasion crew, you are one.
Agreed. It’s a genuine tragedy that so few of them are killed when they hit the wrong house in a no knock raid
“Police department protocol allows the use of lethal force when officers feel threatened”
So I can kick down my neighbors door and when I feel threatened I can shoot them in their own house? Yeah right.
Were they at the wrong house, or did they have bad info? I’m sorry, busting into peoples houses like it’s an episode of 24 for drug offenses is not on my top 10000 reasons of justifiable reasons to kick down the door of anyone’s dwelling.
However. If the officers are charged, so should everyone in the chain of command up to whoever hired the chief of police. The training was bad and the info was bad. That isnt just the fault of the individual conducting the raid. But throwing them under the bus is a good way to let those making the decisions, skate.
I was wondering if I was the only one that caught that.
No way to you get to claim self defense after you kick in someone else’s door and they shoot at you. That’s fucked up.
Sam Aguiar is a local AMBULANCE CHASER…. Figures he would get involved…..
You can assume these officers did everything the way they normally do when entering this home and this is the first time someone assumed they were robbers breaking in? Doesn’t add up… the homeowner started shooting first so…….
The entire system of law enforcement is at fault. It is total negligence for police management to the door kicker to assume that police raid warning calls are heard and comprehended by those in the home, especially during sleeping hours. Some folks are deaf, some take off their hearing aids, some use CPAP units, sleep with the bedtoom door closed, have air an conditioning unit on, or wear earphones. All these make it difficult if not impossible to hear cops at your door. Some take sleep medicine. One then wakes in a stupor as unexpected men break your door down. A woken homeowner then grabs his nightstand gun and starts firing at strangers in his home. Perfectly normal reaction by the armed citizen. And perfectly normal the homeowner never heard the announcement by police. In this case the police were heard. But anyone can claim to be a cop. What if kids were present ? Ot A sick child in her mothers bed for example. No knock raids should be unconstitutional. Raids like these need not be like a takedown for an international terrorist by Seal Teams. Whether cops were looking for a bank robber or illegal drugs there are other ways to effect a takedown. The rights and safety of the homes occupants must be priority one in every case. Always. That should be the law.
Castle laws should take precedence over all police raids. All police raids. Too many citizens rights have been bargained away to make policing easier, all at the expense of the citizen. There are many other ways to apprehend a suspect or trace illegal shipments. Everyone in law enforcement that was involved in this raid should be charged with 2nd degree murder.
This is about property forfeiture, pure and simple. The bad guy is behind bars and then the cops go in, find something and take everything, including bank accounts, not to mention any money/valuables in the house and on the property.
We fought a revolutionary war over property forfeiture, and Nixon’s war on drugs was King George all over again.
There are many police forces that are all about taking from people driving through their area and/or making illicit money without paying off the chief. This has got to stop, corruption is rampant, these laws just contribute towards the militarization of the police. Many citizens feel that the police have declared war on them for what 30 years ago would be a minor violation.
Good grief, the ignorance is very thick around here. Breonna Taylor was knee deep in the drug game with her boyfriend. She’s not some innocent angel that had no idea what was going on and who was asleep in her bed when she was ruthlessly murdered by the police. Here house was listed on the warrant, as was his.
Do some reading before you post so you dont sound like a bunch of idiots.
Yes, the warrant was signed by a judge, and probably for good reason. No knock warrants are generally sought after when police believe that evidence will be destroyed prior to them being able to recover it, or that the people inside will fight back if the police do not have the element of surprise. In this case, both were apparently valid reasons.
As far as miss Taylor’s untimely death, the likelihood that she was shot 8 times laying in her bed for no reason is absolutely ridiculously low; so low that there is no evidence to corroborate it. Apparently, the officers coming in her house took gunfire, and for most of their accounts, it came in the direction from where she was found shot dead in her bed. It is not unheard of that a suspect which shoot at the police and then dump the gun and run and hide in their bed to act as if they had no idea what was going on. Explain to me how she was still in her bed asleep as the officers busted down the door and “her boyfriend” had time to retrieve a weapon and shoot at the officers. She must have been a REALLY hard sleeper.
No knock warrants are a tool. That’s it. No different many firearm. It is whether or not they are used will be the lead and morally that should be it the issue here. The officers obviously did not do anything agree just enough to be charged at the time, but now, because of the George Floyd incident, everybody wants heads to roll, even after we found out that the whole George Floyd murder scenario was a complete sham that was used by the left to destabilize our nation and economy prior to the upcoming elections.
Wake up.
“..Good grief, the ignorance is very thick around here. Breonna Taylor was knee deep in the drug game with her boyfriend. …”
What amount of drugs were seized? I mean if these people were drug kingpins it should have been alot right? They must have had rap sheets a mile long right?
The guy is a troll or racist bootlicker lying. The guy on the warrant didn’t live there, wasn’t there, was in custody already and Taylor had no record. If Taylor had a jaywalking ticket the PD would have been using it as an excuse for her being murdered.
Are you intentionally lying?
The man listed on the warrant was not Taylor or her boyfriend who shot at police and he was already in custody. Taylor had a concealed carry license and no record.
I’ll bet you believe that WWII started with a Polish attack on a German radio station too…
Legalize and tax drugs and get officers doing necessary work instead of fighting some stupid fucking “drug war” that never made sense in the first place. Consensual crimes should all be abolished, it’s idiotic to have police killing people over this stuff. Legalize it all, let adults do whatever they want as long as it’s not hurting anyone else, problem solved.
This.
But there’s billions in drug war profits to lose so that won’t happen without a big fight. Asset forfeiture, overtime pay, jail contracts, prison contracts, court resources- too many get fat on the drug war teat to just give it up.
Some people in high places are so haphazard they couldn’t deliver a pizza to the right house. This “home invasion by cop” should have been checked and double checked and triple checked and signed off 3 different times before proceeding. The police and city need to cease dragging butt and take full responsibility for their incompetence. This should never happen to anyone especiallu in their home.
Oh stop…. stop following the narrative of the commies….. $HIT HAPPENS…. when you deal with criminals, let alone LIVE WITH CRIMINALS, you risk being shot by the police….. PERIOD
Your bootlicking is just as bad as being a commie. You worship the state just the same. You’re lying about innocent law abiding victims. No different than a bolshevik. Only difference between a commie and you is you’re too much of a coward to admit you love the state, love being the state’s slave and have no morals.
And all defenders of this murderous raid be sure to shut your mouth if your loved ones are murdered by the state using fraudulent no-knock warrants looking for people already in custody. You people are slaves.
If someone dies while you’re committing a crime you can be charged with murder. Not these criminal cops who are elite citizens. Prosecutors don’t like going after their accomplices in farming the citizenry. They can and do indict anyone for anything unless they know the person has the resources to prevail in court. Police union attorneys and having a pissed off PD are why this prosecutor won’t do anything.
Why announce your presence as police after obtaining a no-knock warrant? Lies. They murdered an innocent woman. They deserve the death penalty like all murderers.
where is the outrage for Duncan Kemp? Just because he was white he is forgotten, shot at and murdered without the police even knocking at the door.
Media silence on his case.
Ttag didn’t report on 6 cops being indicted over the murder of 58-year-old Rhogena Nicholas and 59-year-old Dennis Tuttle and their dog in Houston last year with again fake warrants and made up informants.
4 cops wounded by the gun owning victims before the Houston police department murdered them.
Didn’t the cops shoot EACH OTHER in the Tuttle murders, just as the Atlanta PD did in the murder of Kathryn Johnston?
No knock warrants seem to target all races . They should be extremely rare, but most requests seemed to be rubber stamped. The same manpower can surveil and arrest on exit.
Somebody’s to blame and it’s not the victims.
At some point the police have to be MADE to accept that this isn’t 1937, they’re not the Imperial Japanese Army and we aren’t Chinese.
You’re almost certainly not going to be able to to charge individual police officers for carrying out a lawful warrant, signed by the judiciary, and returning fire upon being shot at. MAYBE if they didn’t announce themselves as police.
But the system should be changed. First of all, why was that evidence sufficient to allow a forceful entry into a residence, at all? Why did the judge take less than 5 minutes to review and sign it? Why can such a dangerous thing be legally authorized in such a short time? We take years, DECADES to execute a convicted criminal but a judge won’t take an hour to grill applicants for a no-knock warrant?
What will we lose if we don’t do no-knock warrants in drug cases (as opposed to hostage situations, etc)? Will major cocaine dealers be able to get rid of all the evidence if police announce themselves multiple times (not at 5AM when everyone’s asleep) and call the house while they’re at it? Let the people inside see patrol cars outside and get a chance to walk out. And if they start flushing evidence, maybe be ready to go in carefully, one room at a time, in full uniform. Or maybe don’t. The use of tactical raids for drugs risks will make it that much harder to get a warrant authorized for when it’s really needed.
Clever departments have stopped playing commando for drug busts like this. Given the way that things are going, I think even the less-clever ones are going to get the point soon.
Holy crap, the misinformation floating around here. Did half of you even read the damn article before posting or just the headline?
This very article states that
1) Taylor was in the hallway when she was shot. NOT ASLEEP IN HER BED!
“Taylor, unarmed, was shot several times in her hallway and died on the scene.”
2) Her boyfriend, Walker, SAYS THEY HEARD THE KNOCKING but didn’t know who it was.
“Walker told police investigators he heard knocking but didn’t know who was at the door.”
3) Walker shot first at police after they broke down the door. Police returned fire.
“Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenny Walker, was with her at the apartment and fired a shot at Louisville police Sgt. Jonathan Mattingly after the door was broken down. Mattingly was struck in the leg and returned fire, along with other officers who were outside the apartment.”
That has been in virtually every article I have read all the way back to when it happened.
It’s clearly a fuck up all around. The situation exists because we have a drug war and drug prohibition, and because Taylor was receiving packages for her ex who is a professional drug dealer. It has nothing to do with race. It has nothing to do with willful police misconduct. It is the result of prohibition. Under current law the cops were at the right address looking for the right person for the right reasons.
Current law may be wrong (I believe current law is wrong on both prohibition and warrant service, and many other things), but that is a separate issue.
There should be an investigation into how the guy who shot at the police was unscathed but the unarmed woman was shot multiple times. That’s the fishy part. But I am going to venture a guess that the shots fired into the apartment from outside are the ones that killed Taylor, and that the cops in the front line who could see were shooting at and missing Walker.
The most accurate thing ever said about this case was the last line in the article;
““It’s possible there was no criminal activity on either side of that door because no one could hear what the other party is saying,” Wine said.”
And lastly, I think cops should shoot lame stream media. A lot of us libertarian-ish gun nuts were talking about this case and trying to get some more light shed on it months before lame stream media took up the narrative of the plaintiff’s attorneys. I was originally disposed to think it was a bad cop issue. But as evidence came out my mind was changed. But no one, outside of a few libertarians and gun nuts concerned for Walker’s innocence in a clearly self defense shooting of a cop, gave a damn until the lame stream media realized they could use it to gin up protesters and rioters who were beginning to lose steam over Floyd. And that is why they don’t care about or pay attention to Duncan Lemp, the Houston couple, or any of the others. They don’t care about victims of unconstitutional laws or actual victims of police malfeasance. The lame stream media only cares about the mileage they can get out of a story with dupes and fools.
““It’s possible there was no criminal activity on either side of that door because no one could hear what the other party is saying,” Wine said.”
There was definitely criminal activity on the OUTSIDE of the door. The constitution says something about a right to be secure in your home, among other things. Every judge, prosecutor, police chief, and police officer participating in these no-knock raids are criminals. And, it’s time we ended their immunity.
Whoever put the warrant together can be charged easily enough. Get to the source of the issue which is lazy incompetent wanna bes.
Use eyes on intell not google earth, brief the team properly with pictures and description, have a watch on the place and if something goes wrong they can call it (like being at the wrong house), use the real tactical team and not all the wanna be “teams” within departments that aren’t even training. Having a kit and a rifle doesn’t make you an operator and that goes for everyone.
It wasn’t the wrong house. Make yourself familiar with the situation.
“Charging The Cops Involved in the Breonna Taylor No-Knock Raid Shooting Will Be Difficult”
Yeah, they weren’t wearing “jersey’s with numbers” on them, as proposed by some asswipe in another state…
Kaperdicks jersey was worn by the SEALs and they didn’t like it. Dang if ya do and dang if ya don’t LOL
Hold all parties responsible for this outcome….actually responsible for the outcome.
Grand Jury all around, ftw.
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