By Amy Forliti and Steve Karnowski, AP
Prosecutors are charging a Minneapolis police officer accused of pressing his knee against George Floyd’s neck with second-degree murder, and for the first time will level charges against three other officers at the scene, a newspaper reported Wednesday.
Widely seen bystander video showing Floyd’s May 25 death has sparked sometimes violent protests nationwide and around the world. The officer, Derek Chauvin, was fired May 26 and initially charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. The three other officers involved were also fired but were not immediately charged.
The Star Tribune reported reported that Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison would be upgrading the charge against Chauvin while also charging Thomas Lane, J. Kueng and Tou Thao with aiding and abetting second-degree murder. The newspaper cited multiple law enforcement sources familiar with the case that spoke on condition of anonymity.
Earl Gray, who represents Lane, told The Associated Press that the report “is accurate” before ending the call.
Widely seen bystander video showing Floyd’s death has sparked sometimes violent protests around the world against police brutality and discrimination.
Floyd’s family and protesters have repeatedly called for criminal charges against all four officers as well as more serious charges for Chauvin, who held his knee to Floyd’s neck, despite his protests that he couldn’t breathe, and stayed there even after Floyd stopped moving. Floyd, a black man, was in handcuffs when he died with his face pressed to the street.
Earlier Wednesday, the Floyd family’s attorney demanded that all four officers be charged.
“He died because he was starving for air,” Ben Crump said. “He needed a breath. So we are demanding justice. We expect all of the police officers to be arrested before we have the memorial here in Minneapolis, Minnesota, tomorrow.”
Crump said the other officers failed to protect a man who was pleading for help and said he couldn’t breathe.
Crump pointed to the criminal complaint against Chauvin, which said that while Floyd was complaining he couldn’t breathe, Lane asked Chauvin twice if they should roll him on his side. Chauvin said they should keep him on his stomach.
“To us that is intent,” Crump said. And he said the other officers were complicit because they failed to take action.
“We are expecting these officers to be charged as accomplices,” Crump said.
Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz said on a National Governors Association call that state Attorney General Keith Ellison, now leading prosecutions in the Floyd case, would make an announcement later Wednesday on the other officers. Ellison spokesman John Stiles confirmed that Ellison would give an update but would not provide any details.
Personnel records released by the city show Chauvin served as a military policeman in the U.S. Army in the late 1990s. Since being hired as a police officer in 2001, he has been awarded two medals of valor: One for being part of a group of officers who opened fire on a stabbing suspect after the man pointed a shotgun at them in 2006, and one for apprehending another man in a domestic incident in 2008. In the latter incident, Chauvin broke down a bathroom door and shot the man in the stomach.
Chauvin was reprimanded in 2008 for pulling a woman out of her car in 2007, frisking her and placing her in his squad car after he stopped her for speeding 10 miles per hour over the limit. His dashboard camera was not activated and a report said he could have interviewed the woman while standing outside her car.
Lane, 37, and Kueng both joined the department in February 2019 and neither have any complaints on their files.
Lane previously worked as a correctional officer at the Hennepin County juvenile jail and as a probation officer at a residential treatment facility for adolescent boys.
Kueng was a 2018 graduate of the University of Minnesota where he worked part-time on campus security. He also worked as a theft-prevention officer at Macy’s in downtown Minneapolis while he was in college.
Tou Thao, a native Hmong speaker, joined the police force as a part-time community service officer in 2008 and was promoted to police officer in 2009. He was laid off later that year due to budget cuts and rehired in 2012.
Gov. Tim Walz and the Minnesota Department of Human Rights on Tuesday launched a civil rights investigation of the Minneapolis Police Department and its history of racial discrimination, in hopes of forcing widespread change.
The official autopsy by the county medical examiner concluded that Floyd’s death was caused by cardiac arrest as police restrained him and compressed his neck. The medical examiner also listed fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use, but not as the cause of death.
Crump and the Floyd family commissioned a separate autopsy that concluded he died of asphyxiation due to neck and back compression due to Chauvin’s knee on his neck and other responding officers’ knees in his back, which made it impossible for him to breathe.
Bold prediction: It won’t be enough to appease the rioters.
The protesting and rioting is not because of Floyd, his death is only one of many abuses. Americans across the nation are protesting the police department and the police state, they have their own local victims. Floyd’s death was simply the last straw.
how many “last straws” are we going to have?????
The Republicans said the pandemic house arrests was the laws straw for them. They grabbed their guns and went to the capital to shout at the police. Now that the shit is going down — cops are getting shot, the military has come under fire — they are not so mouthy.
We need to make sure we have solutions for the problems that is causing the rebellion. If we don’t, the communists will install their form of governance, they will use the police and military to do that.
Damn commies! They will have to perfect reincarnation before they sit in the tyrant’s seat.
As many as it takes to break the surprisingly resilient camel’s back of tolerance for police brutality.
So they are rioting because they can get away with it. Now Mn proves that mob rule is real.
They can’t get away with rioting and protesting. They are getting abused by the police for doing so, much more the peaceful protesters. The looters are the ones getting away with most of their crimes, including murder.
the first amendment doe not cover rioting…..or looting.
@MtnDewey
Rioting is an American tradition. The 2nd Amendment is meant for the people to use against their government, but first they use their 1st Amendment. Go watch some videos on colonial rioting, protesting and looting against the King.
Rioting is not bad if it is directed at corrupt government. It’s bad if it’s directed at innocent citizens. It’s either protest/riot or start shooting.
Looting is always wrong. Stealing is wrong.
“Rioting is not bad if it is directed at corrupt government. It’s bad if it’s directed at innocent citizens.”
And for those that co-opt the Chinese propaganda that these riots are no different than Hong Kong’s, there’s the difference.
Here’s a partial list of violent riots held in colonial America. This shows that rioting, as an expression of political unrest and dissatisfaction with the ruling powers, is a common technique employed by patriotic Americans for hundreds of years.
* 1676 – Bacon’s Rebellion, Sept 19, Rebels burn down colonial capital, Virginia Colony
* 1677 – Culpeper’s Rebellion, 1677–1678, Revolt against the ruling Lords Proprietors in Albemarle County, Province of Carolina, near what is now Elizabeth City, North georgia
* 1680 – Pueblo Revolt
* 1689 – Cochecho Massacre, June 28
* 1689 – Boston revolt, Angered Bostonians rose up against the royal governor, Edmund Andros, jailed him, and took control of the city.
* 1689 – Leisler’s Rebellion, 1689 to 1691, An uprising in lower New York against the policies of King James II of England, New York City
* 1711 – Cary’s Rebellion
* 1712 – New York Slave Revolt of 1712, April 6, New York City, New York
* 1715 – Yamasee War
* 1713 – Boston Bread Riot, Boston, Massachusetts
* 1734 – Mast Tree Riot, Fremont, New Hampshire
* 1737 – Boston Brothel Riot, Boston, Massachusetts
* 1739 – Stono Rebellion, Slave rebellion., September, Province of South Carolina
* 1741 – New York Slave Insurrection of 1741, New York City, New York
* 1742 – Philadelphia Election Riot, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
* 1746 – New Jersey Tenant Riots, New Jersey
* 1747 – Knowles Riot, Boston, Massachusetts (anti-impressment)
* 1763 – Pontiac’s War
* 1764 – Paxton Riots, Pennsylvania
* 1764 – Attack of HMS St John, Newport, Rhode Island
* 1765 – War of the Regulation, 1765–1771, North Carolina
* 1765 – Black Boys Rebellion, 1765 & 1769, Revolt against British policy regarding American Indians in western Pennsylvania. Conococheague Valley, colonial Pennsylvania
* 1765 – Stamp Act 1765 riots, Protests and riots in Boston, later spread throughout the colonies, notably Rhode Island, Maryland, New York, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and South Carolina.
* 1768 – Liberty Riot, Boston (anti-impressment and anti-Townshend Acts)
* 1770 – Boston Massacre, Boston, Massachusetts
* 1771 – Battle of Alamance, Last battle of War of the Regulation, May 1771, Alamance, North Carolina
* 1772 – Gaspee Affair, Rhode Island
* 1772 – Pine Tree Riot, Weare, New Hampshire
* 1773 – Boston Tea Party, Boston, Massachusetts
* 1774 – The burning of the ship Peggy Stewart, October 19, 1774, The “Annapolis Tea Party”, Action taken in Maryland to support the people in Boston following the Boston Tea Party, Annapolis, Maryland
Chief Censor, you are a different kind of dumb. You need to listen to the beautiful, intelligent Candace Owens. If you are wise enough to listen with an open mind, she will help repair that horse-poo worldview of yours.
Meanwhile, in other news, the beat goes on:
“A black man in Tacoma, Washington, who called out “I can’t breathe” while being restrained by police died as a result of oxygen deprivation, according to a medical examiner’s report released Wednesday.
Pierce County Medical Examiner’s Office concluded that the death of Manuel Ellis, a 33-year-old father-of-two, in March, was a homicide. Ellis had drugs in his system and was suffering from heart disease but the medical examiner determined he died of respiratory arrest due to hypoxia due to physical restraint.”
don’t forget failure to provide equity with regard to jobs, housing, and healthcare.
Liberal democrats run the city and state. They will “F” this up and over charge the cops. More riots to come after the not guilty verdicts.
Minnesota lawyer Nick Rekieta thinks they already did and that the publiclly known evidence is insufficent for second degree.
I have to watch his latest videos. The ones I seen, he didn’t know all the details, so his conclusions were not proper.
Man oh man. If these cops beat the rap, the rioting that will inevitably follow will make the Rodney King riots look like a Sunday cookout.
At this point, I think these 7 day riots have done more than the ’92 riot did.
The tactics are changing. They are starting to show up at the politicians houses. And it appears some right wingers are sticking their toes in.
Moron
I wonder if this Las Vegas man hated the Trump bump fire stock ban? We can’t ask him, he is dead now. He got lit up by the men and women in uniform.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9UBu731BAk
It appears the open carrier was shot on sight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb8AdndAok8
hell, it has already surpassed those riots from 92′.
There were 60+ people killed in 92. How many have died so far? This is not the rebellion/revolution that the left is wishing for. America is too well fed and comfortable for that.
2 things are going to happen. Trump will get a second term and he will crack down on terrorists like antifa.
And nobody with 2 brain cells to rub together can believe going forward that gun control is a good idea.
How many were killed by the Asians?
They don’t necessarily want people to die, though casualties of war are a thing (just ask David Dorn’s family). The goal is for people to hate Trump, despite the fact that he wasn’t responsible, and he was on the side of justice. The goal is to start a race war so minorities won’t notice that things were getting better for them prior to the virus debacle. They have to keep people pissed off so they’ll vote democrat.
“…nobody with 2 brain cells to rub together…” And that’s the problem. It’s clear that much of America doesn’t have those 2 brain cells; if they do, they aren’t putting ’em to use.
“It’s clear that much of America doesn’t have those 2 brain cells; if they do, they aren’t putting ’em to use.”
Well, that is true enough. I keep one of my two brain cells vacuum-wrapped in the freezer for future use, when the one I use just won’t quiver anymore.
So you believe that Trump does not bear some responsibility for the increased brutality of suspects?
Do you remember when he advised police officers to rough up and abuse suspects when they were arrested?
“Now, we’re getting them [criminals] out anyway, but we’d like to get them out a lot faster, and when you see these towns and when you see these thugs being thrown into the back of a paddy wagon, you just see them thrown in, rough, I said, please don’t be too nice. Like when you guys put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over, like, don’t hit their head and they’ve just killed somebody. Don’t hit their head. I said, you can take the hand away, okay?“
Seems likely that he’ll beat a 2nd degree rap since 2nd requires intent (3rd, the original charge, does not). This seems like intentional overcharging to let one of their own dodge some prison time and the others off scot free.
Second degree murder in MN does not (necessarily) require intent. Subpar. 2 of the statute provides for the same charges in the case if unintentional death if caused during the commission of a felony or while inflicting bodily harm as the victim is restrained.
What Matteo said, plus…
In Minnesota 3rd degree murder is a lesser included offense of 2nd degree murder. And under Minnesota Statute 631.14, “Upon an indictment or complaint for an offense consisting of different degrees, the jury may find the defendant not guilty of the degree charged in the indictment or complaint, and guilty of any degree inferior to that.”
In other words, if the jury disagrees that this was second degree murder, they can still convict on third degree. My only question is why it took them so long to file the second degree; it’s not inconceivable that a jury would convict Chauvin of that.
Thanks for the information, that’s interesting
“if the jury disagrees that this was second degree murder, they can still convict on third degree”
Not in Minnesota.
In MN, third-degree murder (“depraved mind murder”, Minn. Stat. § 609.195(a)) cannot apply when the accused’s actions were directed at a single person. From a 2006 MN Supreme Court case:
“Depraved mind murder […] cannot occur where the defendant’s actions were focused on a specific person”.
http://www.mn.gov/law-library-stat/archive/supct/0604/opa050810-0427.htm
That case was cited by the same court in 2017, when they said that a third-degree murder jury instruction was precluded by the fact that the accused’s actions targeted a particular person.
https://law.justia.com/cases/minnesota/supreme-court/2017/a15-2013.html
The original third-degree charge was weird, because it’s about the only crime Chauvin **cannot** be convicted of, as a matter of law.
They won’t beat the rap. What’s going to set them off again would be a sweetheart plea deal.
Chauvin though is a burnt hooker. Eight minutes on Floyds neck sunk Chauvins boat. Eight minutes is a long damn time.
I’m guessing Chauvin is a VERY VERY unhappy man these days. His trophy wife is gone, his 80K a year job is gone, his house is likely gone…..it’s all gone. I’m sure Ms X Trophy wifey ends up with the house. Hell, I’d take it all! I’m hoping the guy loses his pension.
I’m hoping some “brothas” introduce him to prison love. There’s NO prison in the USA that won’t know who that scum-bag is.
“I’m sure Ms X Trophy wifey ends up with the house. Hell, I’d take it all!”
There is some question if his wife’s divorce filing is sincere. It is possible that she and her husband are perpetrating a fraud, merely a devious asset procedure scheme.
The divorce predates any civil suit, he signs over all the assets to her as part of the divorce agreement and protects the assets from civil judgment.
TTAG covering the news now? What does this have to do with guns? I can literally get this news anywhere else.
go then, and prosper.
Did someone make you click and read the article?
The reason one might want to read a story like this here is for the comments section which may have different views than those seen on other sites.
The comments are the best part, especially Larry from Texas. Such bitter old hate and rage. Its my virtual cigarette so to speak to watch all play out.
How is it these things happen in “woke”, enlightened, liberal, progressive states and cities? These places are run by the most compassionate, race-sensitive, caring, comforting, tolerant people in the nation. Why does this stuff continue to happen under the regimes of the social justice mob?
The death of Freddie Gray is a good case study on that topic.
Here’s the narrative: Black people die because white people are in charge and they hate black people.
Here’s the truth in Freddie Gray’s case:
3 of the 6 charged were black
The police commissioner was black
The mayor was black
The state attorney was black
The presiding judge was black
White Supremacy anyone? In liberal stronghold Baltimore, no less.
Same as Chiraq…”you is all raciss”. Run by black & spanglish folks. But whitey is at fault😕 Oh IF it’s PROVEN the cop had a contentious “relationship with Floyd (from the bar job)all bets are off!
“ Timothy O’Donnell, disguised in a Joker mask but easily identifiable from a neck tattoo, set fire to a Chicago Police SUV in the Loop on Saturday and now faces federal charges for the damage, according to a criminal complaint released Tuesday.”
Black Irish I suppose?
Are you lost again Miner? No one said the rioters weren’t white.
“relationship with Floyd”
I’m wondering about this as well. Maybe he didn’t personally like the guy? Maybe it was an ego thing? I’m not ruling out racial animosity, I just prefer facts to feelings.
Poor judgment, lack of common sense, and hesitation to act due to culture in law enforcement. All of law enforcement need to be professionally evaluated for their ability to use good judgment, common sense and act for the protection of citizens, regardless of rocking the boat in the law enforcement culture, or get terminated.
Serious question here. What evidence has come out that his death was the result of racial animosity and when did this evidence come to light? All I’ve heard so far is the cop was white and the victim was black. Maybe the cop said something as it was happening? I just saw the first minute or so of the video.
Since when does the left need “evidence” to scream about racism? As far as I’m aware there is no evidence whatsoever that this scumbag officer would have acted any differently if the suspect had been white
That’s what I thought. Just making sure I didn’t miss something.
Wow, y’all Internet-tough libertarian gun nut types sure turn good little statists as soon as y’all can find an explanation that fits your racial or political prejudices, huh?
Our chickenshit President (who I seriously doubt could even HOLD a firearm with his dainty little doll hands) orders police to tear gas a buncha folks to compensate for the fact that some twerp who used to wear a mf bowtie on TV said people thought he was a sissy for hiding in his bunker last weekend and plenty of y’all are like, “Damn! Where’s my brown shirt?! I want in on this!” What patriotism!
If you really support the 2A, lend a gun to the protesters. Noble as it is that y’all wanna valiantly defend CVS to the death or whatever, they could use it a lot more.
“If you really support the 2A, lend a gun to the protesters.”
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a while, and given all the stupidity that’s been going around here the last week or so, that’s a high bar to clear.
They can get their own damn guns anytime; the 2A works the same way for them as it does for you and me, and guns aren’t free handouts. Protesters are perfectly welcome to bring guns along and exercise their right to protect themselves from imminent harm.
What’s not welcome are the riots and looting that follow them around like the plague follows rats.
“Our chickenshit President…hiding in his bunker…”
Miner,
You do realize he doesn’t make that decision, right? The Secret Service that’s in charge of his safety makes that decision. Of course, you’re repeating a fake news talking point because the goal is to make Trump look bad, not report the facts. If you haven’t figured this out yet, then you’re hopeless.
“…orders police to tear gas a buncha folks…”
Yet another fake news talking point.
“No tear gas was used by USPP officers or other assisting law enforcement partners to close the area at Lafayette Park,” he said. (see below link)
Check this video at The Hill. Watch the guy in the red hat at 0:15. What did he toss? Was that tear gas? But idiots like you don’t care about the facts, do you? You’d rather listen to the media that spent three years trying to sell the country on a cooked up conspiracy theory that, you guessed it, was designed to make Trump look bad. Same stuff, different day. Feed the mindless zombie horde.
https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/500786-interior-department-faces-questions-over-response-to-lafayette
“Miner,
You do realize he doesn’t make that decision, right?“
Dude it, that wasn’t my comment. You might notice, it was posted by someone using the moniker ‘Antimanbaby’.
But whether or not teargas was used is I’m material. The fact is, federal agents were used to clear citizens legally demonstrating in a public park before the curfew.
All so Trump could pose in front of a church with somebody else’s Bible in his hand, clearly a self-serving photo op designed to inflame and divide the citizenry.
None. I’ve seen plenty of bad shoots of white people that never went anywhere. But here we are. At least in this case the anger about the incident itself is justified (as opposed to the cases like Michael Brown… in my opinion). But on the other hand the department immediately fired all four cops, one was charged within a week, and the others are BEING charged now.
So what is are the demands? For cops to be better? Okay, how? Accountability? They’re all being charged with crimes.
You forgot the part about every white person in the country having to repent for the sins of others.
Yeah, all I saw was “bad cops”, racism looked minor or nonexistent.
It’s almost like they want more riots. The evidence needed to prove negligence Is much easier than for intent. It’s pretty hard to prove intent for police In most circumstances. If he walks, it’s going to get interesting.
They are not charging him with first degree. There is no evidence at this time for a first degree charge.
Still need intent for 2nd degree, just not premeditation. The difference is fine but it’s definitely more difficult to prove than 3rd degree.
No intent required for second-degree murder in MN.
“Second degree murder in MN does not (necessarily) require intent. Subpar. 2 of the statute provides for the same charges in the case if unintentional death if caused during the commission of a felony or while inflicting bodily harm as the victim is restrained.”
And under MN statute, third degree is a lesser included offense of second-degree, so the jury will have the option of third degree in any case.
What was the underlying felony? Was the arrest illegal? I read nothing in the statute about restraint for 2nd degree murder.
There must be a separate felony for the non-intentional aspect to apply. If you are robbing a bank and punch someone who dies, that’s 2nd degree murder due to the underlying felony. If you just punch someone and they die, it is not.
At what point does failure to act legally make you an accessory to murder? I’m not saying that their isn’t a culture in police departments that needs changing. I’m also not saying the other three officers aren’t morally guilty for failing to act. However, is failing to stop a crime in progress a crime? It’s certainly grounds or fireing as an officer, but I think it will be an uphill battle to convict.
First of all, he was in their custody, therefore they are responsible for his safety. Second, there was three cops on him restricting the blood flow and oxygen from getting to his body and brain. Third, Thao was physically preventing Americans from stopping the crime in progress, thus he is an active accessory to the murder done by the other three officers (Chauvin being his partner).
Agreed, and well put.
This is a question I’ve been mulling over in my head. At one point the other officer told Chauvin that he was worried about the suspect’s health and they should roll him on his side. Chauvin dismissed him.
At what point should the other officer have literally pushed Chauvin off in front of a crowd of spectators?
I don’t remember training on this in the academy. I suspect there might be some introduced.
Honestly, in this situation, I think negligent homicide would be the most appropriate for the other 3 officers. For Chauvin himself, I’m not sure this meets the standard for 2nd degree, but there’s no chance he’s ever going to see a 1st degree murder conviction. Given what we know about the number of people “rendered unconscious” by MPD officers using neck restraints, there’s still a chance he can plead department policy or accepted practice. If so, he skates. Disgusting, but possible.
On the other hand, this douchecanoe has a misconduct issue in his file for every year he’s been a cop. That pattern makes him a menace. Not just to the black community, as I’m guessing a review of his victims would show he’s at least consistent in his abuses.
That said, I can’t speak to systematic racism in the MPD, but I CAN see a systematic use of force problem. Minneapolis Police Department needs to be completely dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up. Louisville, as well. No knock raids in the middle of the night are a recipe for disaster, and their conduct after they took Breonna Taylor’s life has shown a complete lack of awareness.
As for the animals inciting riots and violence, as much as I would love for the black community to freely exercise their 2A rights, it might be safer at the moment to let the national guard track these little basement dwelling brownshirts back to mommy’s house in the suburbs. It shouldn’t be too hard to track down the money guys from there.
The whole business is cooked up by CNN and MSM. Officer Chauvin may have shown bad judgement, but restraining an individual who is a muscular 6’6′ man will always be a challenge and not something by the book. BUT the Minneapolis Police protocol calls for suing one’s knee to hold an arresteee to the ground until said individual calms down. The story was hyped up to stir up racism which was then amplified by Antifa Soros-funded elements across the country. Nothing is being said about the black police officers murdered in CA and MO.
You’re full of shit. Show me where “the Minneapolis Police protocol calls for suing one’s knee to hold an arresteee to the ground until said individual calms down.”
The use of profanity does indicate an inability to perceive facts, but here is some scientific information as regarding the use of the knee to restrain an individual.
https://www.policeone.com/use-of-force/articles/new-study-more-evidence-against-the-myth-of-restraint-asphyxia-fZq4miR8WYclWnGx/
You are misapplying the results of the study.
From the study you cite:
“One at a time they applied four standard restraint-and-stabilization handcuffing techniques involving knee placement to the back of a training mannequin that was lying prone on a sophisticated electronic scale.”
George Floyd was killed because officer chauvin placed his knee on the victims neck, not on his back.
The neck compression caused cerebral Apoxsee, greeting to microscopic hemorrhages in the brain tissue and death.
The use of an expletive is simply added color to the statement that you are ignorant or purposely dishonest. I see that you think you are too smart for that, so let’s take a look at what you wrote and then how you failed to back it up.
“Officer Chauvin may have shown bad judgement, but restraining an individual who is a muscular 6’6′ man will always be a challenge and not something by the book.”
– If the decedent was rolling around on the ground trying to get up and fight and Chauvin put his knee on him for 30 seconds while another officer handcuffed him we wouldn’t be where we are now. He sat with his knee on the neck of a prone, handcuffed suspect for 9 minutes, several minutes of which the suspect was NON-RESPONSIVE after complaining of being unable to breathe. I’ve fought plenty of big guys. I know how hard it is to handcuff someone (basically impossible until you convince them one way or another). That doesn’t mean you have carte blanche to do whatever you want to them while they’re laying there afterwards. The man was handcuffed on the ground.
“BUT the Minneapolis Police protocol calls for suing one’s knee to hold an arresteee to the ground until said individual calms down.”
– And here is the claim I called BS knowing there was no chance you would be able to back it up. Sure enough, you can’t. It’s nice that you looked up an article in “Police One” but unfortunately it does nothing to verify your ridiculous assertions. It has absolutely no indication that Minneapolis PD has a “protocol” to knee on someone’s neck (the charging documents indicate the opposite, incidentally). And it has absolutely no indication that kneeing on someone’s neck cannot cause them to die. It measures only kneeing on someone’s back and cautions not to think that the results of the controlled experiment can be applied to more than one officer putting their full weight on someone. Floyd was ‘restrained’ by three. Also, at what point should the officer have decided that the suspect had “calmed down” enough not to have a knee on his neck?
When he fell unconscious? When he was dead? Maybe Chauvin should have stayed on top of him at the funeral, just to make sure?
The sad fact is that “Hannibal” and others like him have never owned a firearm, never served in the military, or acted in any capacity as law enforcement, but they serve as paid shills to infest firearm and military sites. The protocol referenced was shared, by a not to be disclosed, currently serving LEO in Minneapolis. The article linked does not distinguish between neck and back. Unfortunately, the perp had been doing Fentaynl and Meth, had high blood pressure, and was intoxicated. Basically his heart gave out. Sad fact but it happens to many large men later in life when doing drugs. Please take your Antifa rants back to Huffpost.
hahaha
oh man
you got me, I thought you were serious for a moment
Mik,
You are a sad little man who ignores reality because it interferes with his prejudice.
You lied about the restraint being used on George Floyd being standard procedure for the MPD, clearly stated in the report is not the case.
The article you cite states that for testing purposes, the knee placement was to the back, not the neck as was the case with this victim. Therefore, your article from policeone is irrelevant and intended as a distraction.
From the article:
“involving knee placement to the back of a training mannequin”
Your false claim about the article:
“The article linked does not distinguish between neck and back.”
“the perp had been doing Fentaynl and Meth”
Amazing, you are now a forensic pathologist who can diagnose from a distance. You do realize that the autopsy showed no drugs in the victim system, right?
Yes, you are indeed, a sad little man who must lie in order to support his narrative of hatred and bigotry.
Dear Professional Soros Troll “Hannibal”, even with your polished techniques you can’t hide the truth.
Apress release from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner says that George Floyd, the 46-year-old black man who died in police custody after a Minneapolis police officer knelt on his neck for nearly nine minutes, died of “cardiopulmonary arrest” and had traces of fentanyl and methamphetamine use in his system.
The second examiner, Michael Baden, is the same medical examiner who came up the magic bullet explanation for Kennedy’s murder where a bullet did a 180 from no cause.
The sad little man, in more ways than one, is you, a paid for living in Mommy’s basement troll. LOL Go play your video shooting games and try to feel tough, “Charmin Boy”!
Best to ignore the one-day wonders. I have a suspicion that folks like this suddenly showing up and making ridiculous statements are trying very hard to make it look like there are “two sides” to this issue and play them against each other. These incidents are rife for trolls- possibly even international provocateurs- to try and divide every community. Or maybe just make it look like 2nd Amendment supporters are racist apologizers.
Cops see that video and know it was wrong (including those that regularly post here, from what I can tell). Drive-by anonymous posters like this are just trying to sow dissent. For what reason? Not sure. The syntax and Soros references make me think Russian, but who knows?
Best to mark “Hannibal” as a paid provocateur. His job is to comment “every” day on various sites under different aliases and continue to push leftist ideas. His remarks on on police and military provide ample proof of what I am saying. Mark him well, he is just here to mislead and attack Americans, and to push the racism theme of George Soros so that Trump will not be re-elected.
lol I’ve been here for years pissing people off with my lefty ‘anti-police’ rhetoric. Get in line, comrade.
I think this is going to come down to WTF happened between Floyd handcuffed and peacefully walking to the cruiser, and Floyd lying on the pavement under 3 officers, with a knee on his neck and begging for his life. There is video, and there are bodycams, but nobody wants us to see them. Judge Napolitano, a contributor to Fox News, said at one point that he had seen video of Floyd, handcuffed in the back of the cruiser, then the officers dragging him *out* of the cruiser and putting him on the ground, then climbing on him. That video comes out, expect demands to escalate to the death penalty for all 4. That IS first degree with no question.
I saw that too Larry…as I said earlier there “seemed” to be a relationship between Floyd & the cop. Floyd was still an ex-con with violence in his record. I saw the cop was ex-military po-leece. Mebbe thought he was still in Iraq😩
The charging documents state: “Officers Kueng and Lane stood Mr. Floyd up and attempted to walk Mr. Floyd to their squad car (MPD 320) at 8:14 p.m. Mr. Floyd stiffened up, fell to the ground, and told the officers he was claustrophobic. MPD Officers Derek Chauvin (the defendant) and Tou Thoa then arrived in a separate squad car.
The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad 320 from the driver’s side. Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still. Mr. Floyd is over six feet tall and weighs more than 200 pounds. While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe. The defendant went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side and Lane and Kueng assisted. The defendant pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car at 8:19:38 p.m. and Mr. Floyd went to the ground face down and still handcuffed. Kueng held Mr. Floyd’s back and Lane held his legs. The defendant placed his left knee in the area of Mr. Floyd’s head and neck. Mr. Floyd said, “I can’t breathe” multiple times and repeatedly said, “Mama” and “please,” as well. The defendant and the other two officers stayed in their positions.
Why would the defendant pull Floyd out of the car after they couldn’t get him in? Was it to wait for the ambulance? Why put a knee on his neck when it appears that his resistance was generally passive (rather than active)? Has the defendant never dealt with someone who has ‘jailitis’ before?
I suspect the defense team is going to have trouble answering those questions.
I don’t know the references for other states, but in CA our Penal Code 31 makes “aiding and abetting murder” a crime punishable as a minimum of “accessory to murder” and a maximum of the same murder charge as the actual murderer himself will get.
No matter how this goes down, the public cry for vengeance/justice will assure the application of charges against the other three officers who stood by and willingly allowed Chauvin to continue in the activity and led to Floyd’s death.
Oops. This was meant to be positioned as a reply to ‘Cannot Comply’ above.
And here we go. This is how you lose a case.
There are 4 categories of 2nd degree murder.
1) Intent to cause death but without premeditation. This is what they’re presumably going to try and prove. That the guy literally intended to kill someone in front of a dozen witnesses. The defense is going to get up and talk about how the officer has done this same thing multiple times before without killing anyone (he’s already fired, who cares). They’re going to find examples of other times on video where the same stupid action did not result in someone’s death. And they’re going to say- probably correctly- that there’s no reason to think that he intended for the man to die. This is the “my client is an idiot, not a murderer” defense and it works pretty well when overcharged.
2) drive-by shooting, not applicable
3) “causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense” – may sound like it applies, but what was the underlying felony? Unless it was an unlawful arrest (and assault) this doesn’t apply. It’s applied to things like where someone punches someone during a robbery and kills them.
4) restraining order issues, does not apply.
I sure hope juries and judges can consider lesser charges in MN because what appeared to be a slam-dunk case just got turned into a real iffy one.
intent is the key issue here, itll go to manslaughter…..
There are a lot of bodycams where a similar outcome occurred when police used the same techniques on people under drugs or excited. The ones I have seen were almost all black males that died. This is why cops are told what Chauvin did is considered deadly force.
Using deadly force for a person in custody that is not violent nor resisting? And continuing to apply deadly force after the man dies? The other officers mentioned they shouldn’t be doing what they were doing and he might be dying. Yet Chauvin said don’t worry about it and they continued even when the bystanders said he is dying.
Chauvin was a cop for nearly 20 years. The other two were rookies.
Depraved indifference, indeed.
All of what you just said points directly to third degree murder- a slam dunk case, in fact.
It does not point to 2nd degree. The differences are important when you send instructions to a jury.
“…what appeared to be a slam-dunk case just got turned into a real iffy one.”
Not actually; this is a win all around (upping the charge).
If the cop is acquitted, the DA/AG get credit for charging and trying. They also get to blame the locals, justifying more unrest. If the cop is convicted of a lesser offense, the DA/AG get credit for trying, and can also blame the locals for not convicting on the upgraded charge. If the cop is convicted in the upgraded charge, the DA/AG get credit, and give the mob justification for demanding upgraded charges for every similar situation, rioting if they don’t get the outcome they want.
“give the mob justification for demanding upgraded charges”
The ‘mob‘ did not need justification for upgraded charges, the actions of the police officers demanded upgraded charges.
The other three officers aided and abetted in Chauvin’s murder of Floyd., they needed to be charged for their crime.
“The ‘mob‘ did not need justification for upgraded charges, the actions of the police officers demanded upgraded charges.”
Was a bit cryptic there. Mob demands everywhere for upgraded charges in any questionable situation resulting in death of a suspect.
Would those 4 stated instances be from MN law? Because if not they are irrelevant.
You could have checked yourself but yes, of course they are.
(don’t mean to sound snarky, the trolls sweeping in have me annoyed)
The jury will deliberate on ALL charges and find either guilty or not guilty as they feel is appropriate for each… Chauvin will NOT walk, however the others charged with aiding and abetting 2nd degree murder WILL require the conviction of Chauvin of 2nd degree murder … And rest assured all of the cops involved will do federal time for civil rights (if not hate crime) violation charges… It’s a shame all those asshole rioters/looters and the protesters that blocked city streets and interstate highways and that violated the civil rights of small business owners, destroyed private property, interrupted Interstate Commerce (a federal crime) and deprived thousands of Americans of their “rights” to Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness will never be brought to justice… The right to protest is one thing, blocking an ambulance on an emergency call, a fire truck responding to a fire or a cop doing his job is a CRIME not a right.. And interrupting the daily lives of millions of Americans because you are a little Butt-hurt is NOT acceptable… There may be a growth in sympathy for the cause but the methods have done way more harm than good…
“what appeared to be a slam-dunk case”
Presuming that refers to the third-degree murder charge, I’m not so sure it was a slam dunk…
In 2006, the Minnesota Supreme Court explained that MN’s third-degree murder statute (“depraved mind murder”, Minn. Stat. § 609.195(a)) cannot apply when the accused’s actions were directed at a single person:
“Depraved mind murder […] cannot occur where the defendant’s actions were focused on a specific person”.
http://www.mn.gov/law-library-stat/archive/supct/0604/opa050810-0427.htm
In 2017, that same court referred to the 2006 case when they said that a third-degree jury instruction was inappropriate:
“This targeted purpose shows ‘a special design upon the particular person,’ precluding a third-degree murder instruction.”
https://law.justia.com/cases/minnesota/supreme-court/2017/a15-2013.html
If you’re correct and the second-degree charge cannot hold up, then it seems like he cannot be convicted of murder, at all. Or, if he is, it gets reversed on appeal.
“what was the underlying felony? Unless it was an unlawful arrest (and assault)”
Regarding the second-degree murder charge, under Minn. Stat. § 609.19, Subdivision 2 (1)…
The state’s argument will probably be that the predicate felony was the assault – either first- or third-degree. I wonder if they have to charge him with one of those and get a conviction before (at the same time) so that the “felony murder” rule applies and they can also get the conviction for second-degree murder.
https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/more-fitting-criminal-charge-george-floyds-death
plea deal
I can’t help but to wonder about something. With all the folks who are regulars here, what would you have done if you walked out of the grocery store with your Glock or P365 on your hip and your 300 dollar pocket knife and saw a cop choking a man to death in the parking lot with 3 others watching and doing nothing about it.
So would you draw down on them and tell him to stop or what do you do?
I have no idea what I would have done so this isn’t accusatory by any means. But we carry guns and I think most folks here seem to know right from wrong and plenty have been in tough spots before.
No good deed goes unpunished…..
You may have nailed it right out of the gate.
If you truly believe that they are in the process of committing murder then you start shooting. Or perform an attempt at a citizens arrest. Once you commit to action you will be the center of a monumental shit storm.
Nobody ever said being a man was safe or easy.
I wish I had your courage.
I’ve been in the middle of a shitstorm. But being in a shitstorm as a DynCorp contractor in Iraq is a lot different than being in a shitstorm in Peoria or Omaha or Wesley Chapel.
I hope your doing OK with your shitstorms.
“..if you walked out of the grocery store with your Glock or P365 on your hip…”
Quite the challenging question, requiring serious thought, not knee-jerk reaction. Thanks for posing the proposition.
Drawing a subcompact handgun on 4 armed and armored individuals is a very bad idea, and something to avoid in all but the most desperate circumstances. Morally, that may be the right thing to do in the scenario you’ve presented, but in terms of both tactics and optics, that would be the wrong call
If you did intervene, you might have a difficult time proving to a jury after the fact (assuming you’re alive after a likely gunfight/standoff with cops) that a crime was being committed. Keep in mind this wouldn’t be nearly the issue it is if Floyd hadn’t died. If you intervene before that happens, hard to say how legally protected you’d be.
I contemplated that after seeing the video for the first time. It is a natural question, not an odd one.
Not my responsibility, not my job, and too damn easy to be wrong. In the situation as it occurred, I would have gone on by. No police uniforms involved but otherwise the same, same answer. Three men on a uniformed cop, I’d order them to release him while I drew, and begin firing in seconds if they did not. Sorry, not a superman.
I would definitely confront and call 911 as well, here in Florida I would call FHP and see what’s up, id hate to say I would draw down and be killed, but I think in my heart if it came to that, I would.
The MOST I’d do is yell at the cop “you’re killing him!” Not my fight-not my ex-con buddy. AND I’ve been around a boatload of large aggresive black men at the gym. Many were my compadres. You can’t win as the evil old white man married to a gorgeous brown woman has found out😖😩
Option C- Pull $800 cell phone and video the illegal actions. Call a different law enforcement agency, like sheriff, state/highway patrol, etc. Yell that they’re committing a crime, if you know they are.
No good options. I wouldn’t blame anyone for just recording and protesting at the scene, as people did. If a couple of people had charged and knocked Chauvin off it might have helped, but it might have hurt… in hindsight we know that the victim was dying but it’s tough to know the right thing to do from 20 feet away when the cops are the ones doing it. And what happens if you knock the officer off and the guy they had handcuffed lives with no apparent injuries? This whole situation would never have developed.
In the end, the most important tool is accountability. The offending officer(s) need to face the prison time they deserve.
But how can the other three be guilty? They’re not White.
I thought it was 3 white cops and 1 Asian?
From the mugshots it looks to me like two white, one asian, and one of mixed race.
Charged and convicted, two different things.
It’s pretty evident they want these cities to burn.
Will anybody bother to investigate this mess from the time Floyd entered the store until he was pronounced dead at the hospital?
There are reports that Floyd was drunk or high at the store. Is that why he was arrested?
There is a short video of him being escorted while in handcuffs. To me, his walk didn’t appear normal.
There is a third video of a cop struggling with someone (presumably Floyd) in the back of their SUV and then running around to the other side. Were the cops having trouble placing him in the back seat?
I’m sure the defense will include that the restraint Chauvin used is authorized in the department’s manual.
So far, the only thing I can criticize for sure is their failure to switch from arrest mode to first aid mode when Floyd lost consciousness. That should, and probably will, come back to bite them.
Here are the charging documents that answer a lot of those questions (but raise some new ones):
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6933246/Derek-Chauvin-Complaint.txt
There was never any outrage over this murder….
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-E_i8Q5G0
Never heard about it.
Didn’t this guy overdose on drugs? They couldn’t help him. Then they gave him more drugs…
I have seen numerous videos just like this, but they didn’t treat the black people this well. They tased, beat them, hog tied them, etc. This guy had pretty good treatment compared to what I have seen.
Cops that been on the job for a while are just like these guys on the video. They don’t care about people. Eventually they realize they lost their soul, then bad things happen to them.
There’s a nifty Fatal Force searchable database at the Washington Post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/
First, click on weapon, then check unarmed.
41 people shot last year were unarmed.
Now click on race. Now click on body camera. Interesting results.
That is interesting! Think how interesting it would be if published by an organization with some amount of anchor to the truth. Washington Post? Never mind.
Definitely approach with skepticism, but their usual fake news strategy doesn’t involve outright changing hard data, at least that I know of.
It’s interesting that more white guys than black guys were shot while unarmed. They were also less likely to have body cam footage. This doesn’t mesh with media reporting.
“Antimanbaby says:
June 3, 2020 at 16:35 ”
You got that right.
I am done with this site. It is now infested with Soros funded Antifa trolls. Most of the comments are coming from people opposed to the 2nd and to LEO.
This isn’t an airport, no one cares about your departure.
To Hannibal — I will be here from now on to show you up for the fraud you are. You are a yellow troll bought and paid for by your Soros master. Keep beating the drum of racism so that you can get the stooge Biden elected. There will always be Americans like me that will be calling you out.
I thought you were done with this site. Is literally ANYTHING you say true? How much do they pay you at Агентство интернет-исследований?
This is hilarious, he describes Hannibal as:
“You are a yellow troll bought and paid for by your Soros master.”
I’m printing this out and framing it, I imagine this guy thinks pwrserge is a liberal shill as well.
I apologize for leaving you, Miner49er, out of being identified as a paid for troll. You certainly deserve recognition as you stare at the basement walls of your liberal Mommy and count the pennies that you get for being a troll on different websites. People like you never run their mouths in public around firearm owners, military — active or retired, or just plain working people. Just stroke you purple tinted hair and try not to hate yourself any more than you already do.
It is refreshing to be painted as an anti-cop troll instead of being called a piggie for once
Ok, just an opinion;
My guess is that the 4th officer keeping the crowd at bay will probably walk. We don’t have all the information available, so it’s always a crapshoot on how it plays out, BUT, prima facially, it’s normal for any officer as a backup unit to prevent individuals from approaching during an arrest. Ground arrests are inherently dangerous due to body positions and how they relate to immediate surroundings. Officers are in compromised positions and can be attacked from the rear or simply get their heads kicked in. Weapon retention at any angle is always a concern when affecting an arrest. So rear security is critical, but very difficult when you’re solo and fending off a mob as your partners are on the ground. Just sayin’.
As far as the other officers on the ground; Now, massive weight transfer AKA “Dog-piling” is also a common and reasonable technique, especially for large suspects, BUT like ANY use of force application, REASONABLENESS must to be exercised.
This includes recognizing when control has been established ESPECIALLY when multiple officers are all trying to reach the same goal, which can change the dynamics of arrest and control effectiveness exponentially.
A suspect need not be motionless to claim control. Hello?! Does Rodney King and the LAPD pinata party come to mind? Granted, these officers were little tykes back then, but LE training and procedures have changed Nationwide since then.
Now, just because a suspect is handcuffed, doesn’t mean they’re under control or in custody. Some agencies use hobbles or “Taco Blankets” as additional restraint devices. These tools may not have been available or even issued to the Minneapolis PD, so options may have been limited.
BUT, it certainly appears that there was some critical FAILURES in meeting the Use OF Force standard of “REASONABLE and NECESSARY” force.
Once FLOYD was handcuffed, was it necessary to keep him pinned down with multiple officers? My guess is that the same officers could have placed him in the vehicle and split immediately. You just increase risk for all by sticking around.
Now, sometimes you need a Paddy Wagon for larger suspects or multiple custodies. And you might have to wait for it to arrive. Regardless, you are RESPONSIBLE for your custody. Get more help if possible.
Officers must constantly adapt to an ever fluid situation.
Think about it: You have multiple officers to maintain control and safety. Talk and listen to your suspect. COMMUNICATE. He can’t Tap Out. He’s crying “MERCY”. He can’t breathe. Reposition his body. Roll him on his side, bend his knees. Continue to talk to him, reassess, and go from there.
Bottom line questions; was Floyd’s death avoidable? If so, to what degree?
There could have been precursor issues on both sides that haven’t been made public. Always more evidence to weigh. Social and political pressures are always part of the equation. It’s always complicated. But one thing’s for sure, this was the worst thing during the worst times. Opportunity knockin’ for all these asshole evildoers. And more people will die no matter what they stand for. Tragic all the way around.
Lastly, here’s the TRUTH about guns: Those who bagged on gun ownership wish they had guns now.
Just an opinion. Y’all be safe out there.
They even charged the one policeman who just stood there trying to keep the crowd back. Will they charge the guy who stood and videoed the event too? The other bystanders?
I get it. Cops are heavy handed. But facts are facts. George Floyd was not strangled. His death was unintentional and due to the fentanyl and norfentanyl in his blood and his bad heart.
That’s not what doctors say, but there is still more work to be done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzYhpG_gYA0
“ His death was unintentional and due to the fentanyl and norfentanyl in his blood”
Pray tell, what toxicology report contains these findings and how did you get a copy?
The autopsy report mentions that Floyd also had traces of fentanyl, THC (a chemical compound found in cannabis), morphine and methamphetamine in his system.
This is per Newsweek per the Hennepin County Medical Examiner report.
“George Floyd was not strangled…”
Probably true. But he probably *was* asphyxiated based on BOTH coroner’s determinations.
Let’s take the very best light for the police involved here. Their suspect complains of being unable to breathe because he is suffering the effects of some sort of drug overdose. Instead of providing basic first aid (putting him in the recovery position, administering narcan or CPR, etc) they keep him in one of the worst positions for respiratory distress AND put weight on his neck and chest up until the EMTs arrive. At that point Floyd was dead, even if he was pronounced at the hospital. Paramedics would load him in an ambulance and go to the hospital but at no point could they restart his heart from the time it stopped while he was unconscious and being held on the ground by three police officers.
They took away any possible chance for him to live. They also, coincidentally, threw away almost every defense they could have mounted if they had simply checked on him and re-evaluated the situation when he became unresponsive.
Yeah, he could be faking it. No one (reasonable) is suggesting that they should have taken the handcuffs off him and walked away. But there were many options and they chose one of the worst. And that’s how you end up in prison. That’s why you cover your ass even if you think the guy has “Jailitis”, Because the one time you don’t, here’s what you get.
This is our old troll friend “Hannibal” still fomenting. The goals of the the Soros trolls are three things: 1) continue to preach that law enforcement and Americans in general are racists, 2) divide 2nd Amendment defenders from law enforcement, and 3) make law enforcement not effective as every officer will be afraid that anything he or she may do can be second guessed and prosecuted.
Check these facts out yourself — George Floyd was NOT a gentle giant. He was a hardened criminal. He did 5 years in the State of Texas penal system. His felony was not the usual. He held a gun to a pregnant woman’s stomach in a robbery for drugs and money. Since most prosecutors use pleas, his crime was probably much much worse. He initially reluctantly surrendered to the officers in Minneapolis, but then resisted getting into the patrol car and fought back. Hence his position on the ground.
Based on the number of trolls like “Hannibal” on gun boards and military boards, my guess is that a Deep State faction of the CIA put this together, as in previous CIA ops such as the fake “Arab Spring” and “Ukraine on Fire”.
Please check out these references. And watch out for trolls like “Hannibal”. The tell on him is his constant reference to “Russian” bots. This is a meme that the CIA pushed to attack Trump and his election.
God bless America. These are perilous times for our country and the elite will stop at nothing to regain power.
When the pendulum swings, it swings far and wide.
Social pressure is always part of the equation. Wether it’s the DA or State Attorney General, they will charge ALL the cops. This is the climate we live in now. They will always overcharge and see what sticks. If a jury aquitts on any charge, prosecutors can wash their hands and say it was the jury that decided. That keeps the hordes from burning down their offices.
Sadly, the Justice system is fraught with all kinds of corruption and politics. Not all, but a lot of lawyers are in bed with opposing lawyers and horsetrade throughout their careers. Others have political aspirations to become Judges or personal agendas, like that assclown Avenatti.
Always sad when officers of the court lose sight of their oaths and the law. This question always exists: Can all these officers receive a fair trial? Hmmm.
It’s a cesspool in many corners throughout the system as history has proven over the years. There are bad apples in any industry and organization. Look at the former brass and investigators of the FBI. What a fuckin’ joke. As lives get permanently upended.
My guess is the 4th officer walks and never gets his job back. Then another wave of civil disorder will come.
As far as the other 3, something is going to stick. And not solely on the facts. The public pressure is too great. Which charges? Who can say. Too early. There will be compelling arguments from either side. But it’s extremely complicated.
Our system ain’t perfect, but it’s better than the rest of the world’s. Hopefully society can make positive changes. In the meantime, let’s look at everything before casting judgment. That’s for the jury and God himself.
But not all cops are heavy handed. Some are not firm enough and go out on a disability or worse, never make it back home. It’s extremely difficult, and in a blink, it’s over.
As a citizen, I’m extremely concerned when things like this happen. We don’t need anymore division. In the words of Rodney King; Can we all just get along?
As a former veteran LEO from 1987 to 2015, I’ve been through a few things, including the King riots and trading bullets with some bad dudes in the worst neighborhoods. Been hurt a few times and put the hurtin’ on on a few too. But one thing is for sure, out of the scores of violent felons I’ve dealt with, there were umpteen more times in which personal restraint was used and the situation was abated without force. Probably St. Michael looking out for me, when the perp was very close to getting ventilated.
Police work is often described as a thankless job. Sometimes I agree with that sentiment. But sometimes, when you and your brothers and sisters overcome some serious shit, it’s tough to really understand. I’ve been to too many funerals.
Both my brothers are retired LEOs as well. We all held instructor positions for many years. By nature of the industry, Use of Force issues have always been the ranking topic for scrutiny.
There’s always been this inside joke, that if we had to do it all over again, we’d be firefighters. LoL.
My prayers go out to the Floyd family. I can only imagine what they’re going through. But I also pray for all cops, especially in this aftermath. Every day they will have to face the beast. More cops will die now. Something I don’t have to imagine about.
God bless.
Amazing … The same trolls here, CC, Hannibal, Actual Montana, Miner49er, etc., pushing their agendas, all political – the end game being the blame Trump and bring back the Obama deep state crew. Same as Chiraq…”you is all raciss”. Run by black & spanglish folks. But whitey is at fault. One black man, high on meth and other, vs the hundreds shot down like dogs in Chiraq every year, and yet the mob screams for blood now; nothing short of the blood of the white cop will pacify them. Biden to attend the Floyd funeral – pure politics, and Obama chirping on a regular basis now(no surprise). The story was hyped up to stir up racism which was then amplified by Antifa Soros-funded elements across the country.(yes) If this was not an election year none of this would be happening.
Without a doubt, the timing of this division is not coincidental. There’s a civil war brewing, to which may be a self fulfilled prophecy. These evil puppetmasters need to be ground up into Soylent Green.
LEGO Asks Stores To Stop Advertising Police, White House Sets
https://kotaku.com/lego-asks-stores-to-stop-advertising-police-white-hous-1843892787
Remember, Trump was responsible for training police departments in democrat controlled towns. We aren’t allowed to hold democrat mayors responsible for anything, like an innocent black man being killed over a TV. So they want the police to pull back. Remember the Ferguson Effect? The police pulled back from dangerous areas, and as a result more black people died. Apparently that’s what Obama and Biden are cheering for. Yes, Obama is back to fan the flames since it’s election season. Weird how the years preceding Obama didn’t have anywhere remotely close to the racial tension we have now. I thought he was supposed to help that. Dems aren’t interested in facts and data, only emotion and narratives.
Obamas job in THIS election cycle is to shame all those WHITE racist voters that elected a semi-black man president TWICE into voting for Creepy Uncle Joe (if you don’t vote for me, you ain’t black) Biden…..
Well, it’s not just the average American citizen who thinks Trump is responsible for much of the division in America.
Here’s what two of America’s most honored soldiers, men who have served this country honorably across the world, think about Donald Trump’s ‘leadership’ skills:
General Mattis, USA (ret)
“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”
“I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled,” Mattis writes. “The words ‘Equal Justice Under Law’ are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.” He goes on, “We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution.”
General Allen, USMC (ret)
“A retired four-star Marine general on Wednesday excoriated President Donald Trump’s threats to use the military on protesters and his controversial church photo op on Monday, writing that his actions “may well signal the beginning of the end of the American experiment.”
Gen. John Allen, the former commander of American forces in Afghanistan and former special presidential envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIS under the Obama administration, wrote in an op-ed for Foreign Policy that “to even the casual observer, Monday was awful for the United States and its democracy.”
General Alan, I can tell you General Smedley Butler, US MC is smiling down a hill from heaven, proud of your patriotism for speaking the truth.
Do you ever have an original thought Miner? You’re the copy and paste king. Why should I care about the opinions of a disgruntled former employee and the president of a liberal think tank? They are very political people. Facts matter, not feelings. This has nothing to do with how Trump is handling things. This has to do with getting a democrat in office. Trump has been much more uniting than the lying dem pols. The media just won’t report it that way. Current elected dems are literally saying police get up in the morning to hunt and kill black men. Corey Booker said this is genocide. Is that factually correct? Is that uniting? Trump called for Justice from the beginning.
Did you miss his speech last week?
“The death of George Floyd on the streets of Minneapolis was a grave tragedy. It should never have happened. It has filled Americans all over the country with horror, anger, and grief,” Trump said at the outset of remarks at the Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral, Fla., after viewing the historic SpaceX launch.
“I understand the pain that people are feeling. We support the right of peaceful protesters and we hear their pleas. But what we are now seeing on the streets of our cities has nothing to do with justice or with peace,” Trump continued. “The memory of George Floyd is being dishonored by rioters, looters, and anarchists.”
Now contrast that with the not so uniting message of the democrats that white people hate black people and want to kill them. Once again, all you know is feelings, not facts.
OK, so you’re dismissing the opinion of decorated veterans with unblemished careers of service to our country, decades serving and protecting America across the globe?
Well, even The Rock thinks Trump has shown poor leadership during this perilous time for our nation:
“The Rock posted an Instagram video Wednesday night in which he called out President Donald Trump for his lack of leadership after the killing of George Floyd.
“Where is our leader at this time, at this time when our country is down on its knees begging, pleading, hurt, angry, frustrated, in pain? Begging and pleading with its arms out, just wanting to be heard. … We must say the words Black Lives Matter,” The Rock said.“
You mean like Obamas Justice Dept. did to Gen Flynn? Mattis is pissed because Trump wants EVERYONE out of Syria and Afghanistan.. Mattis is a wardog, but is also a big supporter of the Climate Change crowd AND he did mischaracterize the events in D.C. on Monday evening as there was no one deprived of their civil rights by any member of the military.. Mattis is just pissed because Trump had the “nerve” to ignore his suggestions about keeping troops in Syria.. Mattis also was/is a big fan of John Kerry and his Middle East Peace plan for Israel/Palestine AND the Iran Nuclear Deal… and then there is this little nugget. .
(www.thedailybeast.com/mattis-expected-to-be-tapped-by-president-hillary-clinton-he-got-trump-instead)
Gen Alan? I know when you reach the top officer ranks (General or Admiral) you are a “political” appointee and if you kiss the wrong ass your career is over… There is also the possibility that Alan just MIGHT be a Liberal looking for a gig at MSDNC or the Clinton News Network OR worse, a sleeper/infiltrator.. (OOOOPS, hold on).. It seems Allen was a featured speaker at the 2016 Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia on July 27, 2016, on the topic of national security. He criticized Republican nominee Donald Trump and endorsed Hillary Clinton for President (the TRUE heart of the matter)
I did find these interesting facts about Gen Alan, seems he survived the Obama purge of General officers that would not kiss Obamas ass, hmmm seems Mattis did too…
Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
In office
September 16, 2014 – October 23, 2015
President Barack Obama
Preceded by Position established
Succeeded by Brett McGurk
Commander of the International Security Assistance Force
In office
July 18, 2011 – February 10, 2013
President Barack Obama
Preceded by David Petraeus
Succeeded by Joseph Dunford
Commander of United States Central Command
Acting
In office
June 30, 2010 – August 11, 2010
President Barack Obama
Preceded by David Petraeus
Succeeded by James Mattis
Personal details
Born December 15, 1953 (age 66)
Fort Belvoir, Virginia, U.S.
Education United States Naval Academy (BS)
Georgetown University (MA)
I’ll ask you again, explain to me how people’s opinions matter? Do you not care about facts? Since when is listening to The Rock’s opinion the most important thing in the world? Don’t you get tired of being such a devout follower? Don’t you ever feel like thinking for yourself?
A reasonable man seeks the council of others, when forming his opinions about issues or individuals. I happen to consider General Mattis an honorable, experienced officer, whose opinion carries great weight.
Of course, I realize that ego driven narcissists rarely consider the opinions of others, after all, who could be as smart as you are, right?
And George Orwell would be proud of your doublespeak, teargas is teargas, even if you call it a ‘chemical riot control agent’.
“Trump and others said no tear gas was used, though police acknowledged dispersing protesters using a chemical riot control agent that the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says is sometimes referred to as tear gas.“
And just why did Donald Trump have the peaceful protesters cleared by Federal agents from the public park before curfew?
“Trump also claimed that he spent time in a bunker under the White House during the daytime to do an “inspection.” Numerous news outlets, including CNN, The New York Times and Fox News, reported that he was taken to the bunker for security reasons on Friday night.”
Oh what a pu**y, running like a little girl to hide in his closet from all the bad people.
Just like he ran from service in Vietnam, a record five draft deferments, tied only with Dick Cheney for total deferments.
I am constantly amazed at the number of Americans who consider themselves ‘patriots’, yet continue to worship sad, ego driven chickenhawks like these.
I am constantly amazed at the number of Americans who consider themselves ‘patriots’, yet continue to worship sad, ego driven chickenhawks like these.
And I am constantly amazed at YOUR ability to pick and choose “facts” that fit your agenda while omitting other “mitigating” facts that would void your assumptions/assertions… Not to mention your blatant regurgitation of “facts” as reported by MSDNC and Clinton News Network about the past weeks events oblivious to the FACT that many people watched those events unfold (like Lafayette Park) in real time AND can access statements made by officials and participants as to what and why certain events occurred WHEN they did… You don’t just DRINK the Kool aid you are helping to MIX it…
“And George Orwell would be proud of your doublespeak, teargas is teargas, even if you call it a ‘chemical riot control agent’. ”
Are you speaking to me? Are you lost again?
“Trump and others said no tear gas was used, though police acknowledged dispersing protesters using a chemical riot control agent that the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says is sometimes referred to as tear gas.“
In other words they used smoke canisters and pepper balls, just like they said. You’re admitting it wasn’t tear gas, but something that is sometimes referred to as such. Who’s double speaking Miner?
“Oh what a pu**y, running like a little girl to hide in his closet from all the bad people.”
The Secret Service decides when to move the President to a bunker you fool. His security decides how far they need to clear out a violent crowd before the President shows up. Put Obama in that situation. Any honest person would admit there would be a completely different media narrative.
“I am constantly amazed at the number of Americans who consider themselves ‘patriots’, yet continue to worship sad, ego driven chickenhawks like these.”
You’re hilarious! I’m here saying we should only look at hard data and facts before we draw any conclusions, and a couple of comments up, you were advocating for blindly following whatever your heroes in the military and the celebrity class tell you to do.
It is not the fact that he was moved to the bunker for ‘security’ reasons, as silly as that is.
It is that he lied about the situation, saying he was conducting an ‘inspection’. Just add it to the rest of his ego driven lies, like ‘the biggest inauguration ever‘, what a joke.
“the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says is sometimes referred to as tear gas”
Yes, call it what you will, I prefer to rely on the judgment of the physicians who actually treat the negative affects of the agent on individuals.
And to claim that smoke canisters and pepper balls are sometimes referred to as teargas is just a plain old ordinary lie.
“It is that he lied about the situation, saying he was conducting an ‘inspection’. ”
I haven’t heard and don’t care. He has an ego bigger than the sun. I don’t hang on to his every word like you do. Saying that has zero to do with policy and governing this country, and is completely irrelevant.
“the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says is sometimes referred to as tear gas”
“And to claim that smoke canisters and pepper balls are sometimes referred to as teargas is just a plain old ordinary lie.”
You’re the one that said it was an irritant that was SOMETIMES referred to as tear gas. If there is proof it was tear gas, then they would call it that. I have yet to see proof that it was. You’re welcome to post a link to proof here. Try to keep to facts, rather than someone’s opinion.
Here you go Miner, I’ll save you the trouble.
“The U.S. Park Police press office told PolitiFact that officers used products made by the PepperBall company, which contain the chemical irritant pelargonic acid vanillylamide, or PAVA.
“PAVA primarily affects the eyes causing closure and severe pain,” according to a report by Britain’s Committee on Toxicity, an independent scientific body that advises the government.
PAVA closely matches the CDC’s description of tear gas.”
So here they are ADMITTING that it was pepper balls. They’re trying their best to call it tear gas because an ingredient in the chemical irritant (PAVA) closely matches a description of tear gas. So, no it wasn’t tear gas, they’re admitting it was PepperBalls and smoke canisters.
I know how political the senior officer corps was in early 90s, and it can’t have become more conservative since. Generals have their experience, and none has ever been responsible for the care and feeding of the entire nation. None had to balance competing political pressure groups. And you can count on one finger the number who ever had to deal with a riot and/or looting. Don’t forget, McChrystal forbid FoxNews playing on TVs in his headquarters; only CNN was permitted.
Generals are specialists, useful for their military expertise, but not for their political, cultural, societal acumen.
Well said.
“Well said.”
Thanx. A blind squirrel moment, I assure you.
Boom. You hit the nail square on the head. Not to mention, Mattis as a General or Former General for that matter, really needs to STFU rather than driving wedges and further dividing this country. So IMHO, he’s only cracking his piehole to further a political agenda. Besides, he’s bitter cuz Trump said, YOU’RE FIRED.
The family just wants to see these cops convicted of killing George Floyd so they can file that wrongful death lawsuit… What’s it worth? 100 mil?, 500 mil?
“The family just wants to see these cops convicted of killing George Floyd so they can file that wrongful death lawsuit…”
That’s a civil courts matter. Preponderance of Evidece; think they have enough already, to begin.
No doubt, but wait til the dust settles and they are just another family seeking justice against the evil cops/city/state and whomever else they can name…. After the riots/looting goes away it will be easier to get the powers to settle and avoid a loud messy court proceeding… The optics of jumping in too soon might shift public perception of their motives…
“…really needs to STFU…”
Nah. Everyone has a right to express an opinion. I was pointing out that just because a person has noteriety, one does not need to take them seriously.
My Brother-In-Law was all about how righteous and integrity Mueller was; honorable Marine, doanchano. BIL was incensed when I pointed out how Mueller knew there was no crime in Russiagate, but took the job anyway. Then I called up the stories about several of the “honorable” military veterans who were convicted of crimes of fraud, corruption and malfeasance. Pointed out all the awards and medals these veterans acquired, and how they were all honorable veterans who should not have been questioned about their misadventures.
Then the subject changed, abruptly.
Who are you and why should anyone listen to you about ‘trolls’ as you’ve just appeared and appear to be using multiple names to try and stir shit up?
He’s a racist loser. He did just show up recently too, I think at the Arbery shooting articles, and with one agenda: white pride related nonsense. LIterally nothing else of value. If I remember correctly, he blatantly defended those men who gunned arbery down simply because of race issues. I might not be the most liked here by some, but certainly not on this idiots level. Also, there is another one who goes by the name “george washington” or sometimes “GW”. Same racist shit. Over, and over, and over…
Why are trolls like Montana Actual, Miner49er, and Hannibal hanging out at a gunsite when they don’t like firearms, don’t support the 2nd Amendment, and don’t like law enforcement? Gee, do you think they could be paid to cause trouble? Funny how one never find their comments when it comes to technical talk on firearms! What is hilarious now is that the trolls are actually outnumbering regular folks on some sites. I guess there are a lot of unemployed Millennial basement dwellers that need the work! LOL
“Why are trolls like Montana Actual, Miner49er, and Hannibal hanging out at a gunsite when they don’t like firearms, don’t support the 2nd Amendment, and don’t like law enforcement?”
What fun is an echo chamber?
And….
You have a delete “button” readily available; why not use it immediately you see the screen name you detest? I admit that you end up deleting a bunch of comments daily, but you get to the better commentary faster.
The funny thing is how he’s so clueless that he’s trying to disparage posters in a way that makes everyone know he’s just some planted troll. Anyone who has been here for a year might call me names but it would be the opposite. I guess it’s the disadvantage of using this sort of discussion method rather than a forum with login required.
At least pwrserge was presumably a real person, not just some croney.
I just love it when the trolls get together and talk about how those deplorable toxics are so inferior. After all, when one is a troll, one can spend years haunting websites since trolls are paid for their haunting. “Hannibal”, “Miner49er, and “Montana Actual” must love their group gropes after they get home from their protesting and looting! They are the pitiful poop of liberal money banks to coin a phrase. Gotta love their pathetic emoting when someone confronts them! What a bunch of treasonous losers!
“After all, when one is a troll, one can spend years haunting websites since trolls are paid for their haunting.”
Well, let me tell you Bucko. Being a paid troll is not a bed of roses. I can’t spend the money fast enough. I still have a two-inch stack of undeposited paychecks. And on top of that, considering all the perks and side benefits, my tax return is over 100 pages.
It’s a heartache, nothing but a heartache.
I still have a two-inch stack of undeposited paychecks.
I would suggest you get a real bank account with online banking that supports photo deposits then get yourself a smartphone and start depositing those big ol checks… I’d hate to see you lose out on that monumental windfall… You must have an accountant to manage the day to day with such a massive income that requires corporate sized tax filings, quarterlies must be a real bitch… Maybe you should discuss direct deposit with your employer(s)….
“I would suggest you get a real bank account with online banking that supports photo deposits then get yourself a smartphone and start depositing those big ol checks…”
Maybe it is disingenuous to complain about the stack of checks. It is what I sit on so I can be high enough in the chair to reach the keyboard of the computer.
But thanks for the thoughts.
Just trying to help… How about a booster seat? a phonebook? an adjustable office chair?
“Just trying to help… How about a booster seat? a phonebook? an adjustable office chair?”
Booster seats break (don’t ask how I know), I need the phonebook too often, and office chairs are too complicated (and have fallen out too many times after the second morning martini).
Well alrighty then, I guess I’ll just keep any further suggestions to myself, but you be careful, sitting on a loose stack of checks can be pretty hazardous as well..
“…sitting on a loose stack of checks can be pretty hazardous as well..”
Not to worry. I glued them together so they don’t slide around.
Thanks again for some really good suggestions.
Don’t include me in that “dey raccis” crowd. You must not be paying attention to my stance against police if you think for one second I will EVER involve race. I see the race baiting. I am against it. However, I am also against straight up racist fucks like you too… And it’s not just fuck trump… it’s fuck both the left and right.
“I don’t believe in anything, I am just here for the violence.” – an operator patch or something.
Floyd had been sentenced to five years in prison in 2009 for aggravated assault stemming from a robbery where Floyd entered a woman’s home, pointed a gun at her stomach and searched the home for drugs and money, according to court records
The encounter began Monday around 8 p.m. when an employee at the Cup Foods convenience store called police to say that a customer later identified as Floyd had tried to use a counterfeit $20 bill to buy cigarettes.
A police statement said it is at this point that Floyd “physically resisted an officer.”
https://youtu.be/V5WD9mX5dOg
I foresee them tacking on all kinds of charges, a majority of which he won’t be convicted on. So why would they “over charge”? The setup for when those are dropped and will re-ignite the flames.
Man, you see conspiracy even when there ain’t none.
It is routine for a prosecutor to overcharge filing as many charges as are applicable in the situation. This gives more room for working out a plea bargain or more latitude to the jury to find a true Bill on an appropriate charge(s).
And wouldn’t you want the prosecutor to levy every charge applicable in a particular case? Why would you want a prosecutor to ignore violations of the law and not charge the suspect for all charges that may be appropriate?
Here’s the narrative: Black people die because white people are in charge and they hate black people. Keep beating the drum of racism, Miner49er, as you try to get Blooper Biden[the king of the swamp] + Kamala Harris{black VP as Obama’s gal and the eventual POTUS} elected.
” Here’s what two of America’s most honored soldiers, men who have served this country honorably across the world, think about Donald Trump’s ‘leadership’ skills: ”
“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes.
Even Obama [worst POTUS of all time] fired Mad Dog – he’s a dope. What Mad Dog thinks or says now matters zero percent.
Obama was raciss big time choosing two black AGs along with Susan Rice and many other blacks or half blacks like himself. The man is half black but identifies as 100 percent black; that’s the truth whether you like it or not.
FROM ANOTHER SIMILAR TTAG THREAD:
” This is exactly what they wanted in order to secure the election of Joe Biden in November. ”
The black vote… they had it anyway… now they may get 95% of it. That’s what this is really all about, getting more than 90 percent of the black vote as Obama did – twice.
” With the newest wave of protests across the country the Democrats will soar to new heights in the polls and in their respective voting blocs. ”
They may just get a brief spike in the polls but it won’t last if the economy comes back strong. Blacks like the on going gravy train plus hand outs and never had it so good; most of them know it.
” It’s a sad state of affairs when the liberals will stop at nothing to get their “man” elected. ”
Correction… to get their black woman VP ready to take over for Blooper BIDEN > [the king of the swamp]
” I don’t think Trump has a chance in November. ”
He has a chance IF he can hold off the mail in ballot thing [SCAM/SHAM] nation wide. Forget the West coast and New York; must take Florida and Texas and the Southern red states. So then it comes down to Michigan and the neighboring states, and Ohio and PA.
Hope all here continue to slam the liberal trolls, CC, Hannibal, Actual Montana, Miner49er, etc., pushing their agendas, all political – the end game being the blame Trump and [try to] bring back the Obama deep state crew.
Right now there’s the China and Russian psy ops and cyber warriors, along with antifa and soros, the ‘anonymous’ folks or cult, and others, to have to deal with going forward. The repulsive trolls here stay around to of course try to stir it up and seed division and hatred, but them getting a regular a$$ whipping at TTAG, like they’re getting, is the best thing for them.
no one is going to pay attention to some weirdo who showed up and uses three different names to try and spread disinformation
Stick around for a couple years under one name and maybe people will listen to your nonsense
I would like to see the FULL VIDEO that was taken and further details on the reason for the stop. How many bogus $ 20 bills had been passed I the area. Heard it was a forged check and then a fake twenty. Which was it was the area being flooded with fake money or was just one time thing. By viewing the entire video, how violent was the take down that it took four officers to effect the arrest. oh and by the way if you say “I can’t breathe,: then you are breathing. I will concede that the Kneeling on his neck was excessive after he was in cuffed. Was pepper spray allowed to be used or tasers (which sometimes have no affect if hopped up on drugs} What is the dept’s guidelines on use of force?????
Mike Brown in ferguson was trying to take the officer’s. one video of the after the shooting was of someone showing the crowd and to older black were taking the background talking about happen, one man said “The kid on the ground was trying to take the policeman’s gun and cop had to shoot him.”. That video was shown only a few times by the tv station but the sound was muted, and was finally never shown again.
Has any one seen or posted a current photo ofTravon Martin other than his 6th grade school pic
In St Louis the black female DA has not filed charges on ANY of arrested looter., 4 officers were shot and a retired Captain killed by looters. Saw on the news thay Minnenaplios (sp) city wants to disband the PD. With that kind of support, the cops should just stand by and let the city get taken over by the mobs.
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