https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc-PiYTpu9Q
Kentucky Senator and presidential hopeful Rand Paul isn’t buying Chicago Mayor Emanuel’s and Police Superintendent McCarthy’s attempt to blame gun control laws for Chicago’s mounting gun-related death and serious injury toll. Paul ascribed the Windy City’s firearms “epidemic” – nine dead and 45 injured over the weekend – on a “thuggishness that’s out of control that no longer knows right from wrong.” Writing for the Chicago Tribune . . .
Mary Schmich digs into the paper’s archives to prove that the gun-related killing and wounding is nothing new, and then points a metaphorical accusatory finger at, well, everything: “It’s the guns. It’s the gangs. It’s the parents. It’s poverty. It’s a lack of jobs. It’s culture and family structure and prison policy.” Nothing to do with the Democratic machine or laws that keep law-abiding residents from defending themselves against ballistic predation, then.
Same as it ever was – only now The Land of Lincoln has concealed carry. I wonder if it will have any effect . . .
I thought the police were supposed to enforce the law as written, not bitch and moan about how they wish this and that was different. This is just a side show because G’mac does not have the resources or the intelligence to put a stop to the gang problem in Chicago, he can only hope to (try) and keep it contained, something which is much harder now that the concentrations of section 8 housing where these gangs thrived have been broken up.
Anyone who rises to the level of giving press conferences in Chicago is no longer the “police” if they ever were… they’re mouthpieces and politicians.
I know, right? I make a helluva nice living doing other people’s thinking for them. That’s bad enough. I can’t imagine doing other people’s lying for them, at any price.
Right on.
Chief of Police in any non-trivially size city is a political and not a law enforcement position. You’re job is to support the ideology and policies of your boss – whatever they might be.
That and try not to shoot at streetlights no matter how drunk you are…
That poor cop is just bewildered. They have banned guns in the city, but there are guns outside of the city, so there are still guns in the city, so they should ban guns outside the city… I wonder what would happen if you covered his eyes and then had Rahm step out of the room, would he think he disappeared?
Ha!
That made me laugh.
Unfortunately the expense of cc in Chicago prevents a lot of good people from carrying where it matters most. It WILL eventually make a difference. I live in southern Cook County,Illinois and see vast numbers black folks legally buying guns. Honestly there were FAR more murders in the 1970’s.
Don’t bring actual statistics to an emotion fight…
“We need help”. No you don’t, you say “need help” and we hear “give us total control of guns”.
Sorry Bub, not buying that line. Senator Paul, however, gets it. You can’t break that vicious cycle while those kids are teenagers. It has to start from day one, sympathies to those inner city kids who don’t have much of a chance.
Instead of putting convicted gang bangers in jail how about impaling them. The leave the impaled bodies on the neighborhood street corners. Might have a much better deterrent effect.
Too much?
Seriously, prison doesn’t work. Way too many friends waiting for them there. The families have failed, the communities have failed, not enough jobs or qualified applicants to fill them, and a piss poor educational system. The progressive policies are marginalizing and ruining generation after generation. It will only get worse.
There is no such thing as “deterrence.” England used to punish all felonies with death, and they would decapitate their convicts and place the severed heads on the iron fence that surrounded the Old Bailey. It didn’t eliminate felonies. People continued to rape, rob and murder, just as they have for thousands of years. The United States used to have pretty universal capitol punishment–and that didn’t work either. The simple fact of the matter is that would-be criminals do not consider the potential penal consequences of their crimes before deciding to go ahead with the burglary, murder, whatever. For some reason, they all seem to think that they will not get caught. Capital punishment and imprisonment (for the period of incarceration) deter only that one convict, not any others. if deterrence actually worked, there would be no crime….
One execution deters one criminal?
That’s, uh, 100% success rate.
😉
Kind of like the instant justice in “Time Cop”? That works.
That’s not deterrence, and it’s not the argument made by people who use the word.
Criminologists who have scientifically analyzed mountains of empirical data over many decades have consistently found correlations between crime rates and certain factors such as police presence, arrest rates, conviction rates and prison terms. John Lott, in his book “More Guns, Less Crime,” explains the need to account for these known correlations in order to examine the effects of some other factors such as right-to-carry laws.
Eliminating violence is not a realistic goal, but we certainly can reduce it if we do what has proven to work. Allowing citizens to arm themselves for self defense is one of those proven methods, but not the only one.
You make a fair point Mark N. I think I would “feel better” if we executed convicted murders. Apparently “feeling better” is the point.
That’s painting with a laughably large brush. Criminals are not single cell organisms reacting automatically to stimuli without any contemplation or forethought.
Deterrence comes down to the severity of punishment, the swiftness of punishment, and the likelihood of suffering punishment at all. Those factors vary between crimes, prosecutors, jurisdictions and perhaps among violators themselves.
Now, the perceived deterrent effect may vary between individuals, partly based on the relevant factors above being estimates, and partly based on individuals’ capacities to make those estimates. Still, that some come up with different answers to inform their decision making doesn’t mean that no one is doing the mental math.
Just wanted to add a little humor to the dialogue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgQRgT15f9U
A little Ron White to discuss the death penalty.
Enjoy!
prison works if you don’t let them out
All valid points except “piss poor education”. With something like $50 million extra dollars pumped into grade school education system since the lottery came to town, North Carolina ranks 50th out of 50 states for high school core competency.
The most recent data I’ve seen on Illinois CCL applications indicates Cook County won’t have as many licensees per capita as the rest of the state.
http://www.pjstar.com/article/20140329/News/140328908
The gang/drug/violence subculture of the inner-city is so entrenched, the hoplophobic liberal attitudes so indoctrinated, and CC licenses so expensive, that I don’t envision any big changes in the blood flow anytime soon.
This is purely a selfish attitude on my part, but I can only hope the presence of armed citizens in the rest of the state will deter Chicago’s thugs from venturing beyond the city limits.
Just how expensive is “so expensive”? In California, it costs $150-$300 for the application (depending on whether the county required the applicant to have a mental health exam), and another $165-200 for the required class–about the cost of a decent handgun all told.
$150 non-refundable application fee, 5-year renewal
$250 (rough average) for 16-hour training class
$60 (rough average) for optional fingerprinting
That’s assuming you already have a FOID card ($10), a concealable handgun ($300-$500), plenty of practice ammo, range membership so you can actually practice, a good holster, a gun safe, etc. etc.
I mention all these things to point out that if you’re a single mom on public aid in the most dangerous neighberhoods in Illinois, legally defending yourself with a handgun is really not in the budget.
Got my CCW required training in Wisconsin from Wisconsin Carry for free, (Although I tried to encourage them with $20 in the donation jar.)
My wife used her DD214 so two CCW for $120 for five years. Net $50 apiece for the Licence.
Funny thing is that The state of Wisconsin, California or Illinois can all buy paper from Staples at about the same price, so I cannot explain why the paper work for CA and IL is so expensive.
If I thought my states workers were only 10% as efficient as Wisconsins, I would ask my Governor to look into it because that would smack of a scandle right there.
Any thing above a straight admin cost fee is taxation of a right, and that didn’t fly with the voting thing did it?
… Well, we have to pay the salaries of all the Quinn appointees on the CCL Review Board.
Extrapolating the application numbers I’ve seen so far, the state will receive about 300,000 applications by the end of the year, for a gross take of $45 million.
Maybe they think they can “tax” gun owners out of the state. It’s certainly been an effective way to get rid of employers.
If the majority of these murders were committed by recent cc licensees, he might have a point. Since (I believe) they weren’t, he should brick up his mouth before he spills any more stupid.
He needs that stupid. Without it, he has nothing!
“You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.” ― Ayn Rand
“How long will we pay for a government that claims it keeps us safe from plots and conspiracies” [, like criminal violence problems] “of its own making?” ― Judge Andrew Napolitano
Several weeks ago I read an article on gun violence in the US that highlighted an interesting point.
They took national gun violence statistics, and then separated the statistics for the three or four (I can’t remember exactly) cities with the strictest gun control (Chicago, DC, etc). Deducting the incidents from the cities with the strictest gun control, it dropped the US gun violence statistics dramatically.
I wish I would have bookmarked that article. Is anyone familiar with article I am referencing? I wish I could find it again.
When I went searching to try to find it, I browsed several anti-gun articles, and noticed many of their arguments were complete horse manure. One Mother Jones article claimed that no mass shooting has ever been stopped by an armed civilian. I know that this is an outright LIE, because I can think of at least two incidents off the top of my head where an armed civilian stopped a nut who was on a rampage.
As I recall that MJ article had the flaw of only classifying incidents where more than 3 people were killed as mass shootings. Soooo, if only say one or two people died before the psycho got dropped it didn’t count. They got reemed for it, too.
As far as the cities, all I can tell you is that the top 15 deadliest cities would cut the murder rate by 3304 (circa 2012), whatever that is worth.
http://www.businessinsider.com/cities-with-the-most-murders-per-the-ucr-2012-10
Well, that is pretty stupid criteria, isn’t it? If somebody kills two people at random (1) and is in a crowded location (2) with several guns (3) and loads of ammo (4), we don’t count stopping that somebody before he kills more because not enough were dead? That’s dumb.
That church shooting in CO, the guy killed 3 the night before (doesn’t count), then 2 kids on the steps, was engaged and stopped before he got inside where there were THOUSANDS of worshippers, while he had several long and short guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition, that stop was not even worthy of mention, right? REALLY dumb.
They should just make murder illegal, then you wouldn’t be allowed to kill any one with anything. I cant be the only who thought of this.
Boy, they would be in trouble if guns were made illegal… what would they blame crime on anymore?
Oh, I guess they would say it’s because they were legal for so long that it will take generations of good, Democratic Party Government to finally rid us of these evil things.
And they’re gonna need to ignore a few more of our freedoms to make it work “for the children”.
The Supreme Court is well on it’s way, as evidenced by the latest decision allowing police to detain based on anonymous 911 tips…
Your comment made me think of what they used to say about Soviet era Socialist government, namely that the period of socialism would be marked by suffering until full communism could be implemented, after which everything was supposed to be utopic. That then made me think of this joke from a series of jokes during the soviet period, it’s own trope; Armenian Radio, which takes the form of a radio call in show:
This is Armenian Radio; our listeners asked us: “When the final phase of socialism, namely communism, is built, will there still be thefts and pilfering?”
We’re answering: “No, because everything will be already pilfered during socialism.”
I’m still on coffee one this morning so I’m a little slow but when the left insists they just need more time for their failed policies to work I always hear strains of the Supreme Soviet discussing first how it was just going to take more time for socialism to work, then lamenting that it would only work if there weren’t any more non-socialist states in the world. (Remind anyone of anti gunners?). Which leads to this joke from Armenian Radio:
This is Armenian Radio; our listeners asked us: “Is it possible to build communism in America?”
We’re answering: “It’s possible, but who will we buy grain from?”
The whole trope of Armenian Radio reveals succinctly and concisely what the problems of a socialist state were and illustrates how wide spread the realization was that it was an unworkable system. It used to be that everyone in the US new that our system of government and economics was superior to socialism and in fact the ‘S’ word was a dirty word for generations.
Communism has often been well hidden and has gone by many names, many of them duplicitous or intentionally misleading. This is likely because there are many people disgusted by and frightened of it and with good reason; as it leads inevitably to dictatorship or oligarchic rule, to the loss of individual rights and even identity, to economic and social deprivation and eventually, if not violently overthrown, to economic collapse.
The latest iteration of communism is called ‘progressivism’. It’s still all about redistributing wealth (of course and eventually to those in charge of it once it’s been foisted on the people) and still about collectivist values that devalue the individual and which by definition preclude the concept of individual rights, since only the collective has value. It still makes the tired old arguments that there will have to be some suffering during the period of revolution (though they no longer call it that) until the enlightened policies of the body communist can take sufficient hold and bring all to a glorious paradise. It still insists that anyone who doesn’t submit willfully to such suffering is counter to the people and counter to the collective and thus must be evil.
The demand for surrender of autonomy and individual rights for the common good, wealth redistribution and ever increasing central control of the economy are and have always been hallmarks of a communist revolution. That this is lost on a large part of the American populace, as are the horrors that inevitably follow, is shocking and depressing.
The enemy isn’t at the gate anymore, he’s in the parlor sipping tea and courting our daughters while flattering our wives and recruiting our sons. Worse, the revolution has been over for years and the office of the Secretary General of the Supreme Soviet . . .I mean the office of The President of the United States has already been taken by the revolutionaries. The battle is already over and we never got to so much as fire a shot. Don’t lose heart though, there is always counter revolution, and besides, the whole thing will collapse under it’s own weight in 50 or 100 years.
The Current fees are:
$10 for foid card
$200-$300 for the 16hr class
$30-50 for fingerprints
$25 for range fee
$varies for hand gun
$varies for 100 rnds ammo
Now this is before you have even applied for the CCW
$150 For the Permit ( nonrefundable of course)
—————
$415- $535 plus gun and ammo
Considering many of those folks in the downrange areas are mimimum wagers and they can’t carry on public transportation or in some buildings ( as yet to be identified) that’s a lot of scratch to have to come up with for a limited use (only due to the current provisions in the law) permit
Maybe he could take them out and show these youths the proper way to handle a firearm … you know, get drunk and shoot out street lights.
if you’re interested:
http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/
If you goal is to get re-elected in Chicago, then you have no choice but to shell out blame to anything that isn’t one of your cronies. If your goal is to be a productive civil servant, well, that’s an entirely different story. So long as they have a manageable amount of tension and violence, they will always have job security.
Did you notice in the video clip the CPD officer on the scene armed with an AR-15? Not the first time I’ve seen that in Chicago. Yet his boss McCarthy says “Military-type weapons… belong on a battlefield, not on a street…” while calling for a nationwide ban on assault rifles and high-cap magazines. With apparently no sense of the contradiction.
CCW may protect citizens in other cities but I highly doubt most of the people getting shot over here are law abiding citizens. CCW isn’t going to do anything to disrupt gang violence, which is most of what the shooting in Chicago consists of. It’s gang on gang on people with relations to gang members. Most of the victims couldn’t afford and probably aren’t even of CCW.
I don’t expect CCW to make a bit of difference in Chicago’s homicide numbers. The bulk of the homicides occur in a handful of neighborhoods where the threat of someone shooting back already existed. But I do expect to see violent crime numbers going down overall. Taking the L to Lakeview or the Mag Mile to mug a few yuppies or tourists before heading back to the South Side may not seem like the easy pickings that it once was. (Like 10 years ago when it happened to me.)
The parts of Chicago were the bulk of the murders take place is literaly a jungle. There is no law of any kind, except the law of the jungle. This isn’t said to make some cutesy racial joke at the expense of the people who live there, its just fact. If the President really wants to fundamentaly change something, he should go to Chicago and demand change there. He won’t, nobody will. And so it shall remain.
We at Everytown for Gun Safety™ echo the sentiment that weak laws in neighboring states lead directly to violent crime in Chicago. The relatively low crime rates in those neighboring states are also directly caused by Chicago’s strict gun laws. It’s just further proof that Chicago has #gunsense.
🙂
It’s sad because it’s true.
Boy, that is the best one I’ve heard in a while. Who are you, really, you jokester, you!
Still, it does lose a lot in credibility, no one could even read what he just wrote and not recognize how stupid it is. Good joke anyway!
Maybe arming the population would help.
Chicago doesn’t have a gun problem.
Chicago has a gang problem.
Always had. Sadly, it probably always will.
I got a Chicago dog they can honk on.
Again, another “let’s blame the guns” so no one scrutinizes the quality of the work produced by the city government and police force.
um, didn’t Chicago have the same problem when they banned guns and Illinois did not have CC?
If we banned guns the USA could be as safe as…………Mexico.
The local Gendarmerie is not amused at McStupid.
http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2014/04/violence-is-heat-related.html
http://secondcitycop.blogspot.com/2014/04/compstat-media.html
And of course, since Rand is a conservative, there isn’t a peep about the carnage caused by the unconstitutional and quite racist war on drugs.
McCarthy and Emanual sre complete Ignoramuses.What else can you say, Front site and all NRA based CCW instructors could clean that town up in a year if we were allowed to properly teach The Citizens of that town how to properly defend themselves with a weapon! You teach half a million CCW carriers how to fight back (you would have to do background checks before they could take the class so no criminals learn defense with a weapon)you could have that town cleaned up in a year.Bring in thousands of NRA instructors and you watch that place change let the gangbangers start getting blasted for a change.Gangs will be a thing of the past
You don t believe it McCarthy? Hide and Watch!!
Senator Paul, somehow you are articulating common sense about this matter and not politically correct garbage. I do not hear those who are Second Amendment advocates, proffering the idea that the deaths are the fault of law enforcement, the Police Chief, and superintendent, or even the fact that is a culture of violence in Chicago, long before African-American gangs killing one another. If these gangs did not have guns, they would use knives or clubs, or improvise their weapons. I am sure some may well be thinking this is another Democrat dominated city which is out of control. We have had a host of these lately, haven’t we?
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