“A person suffering abuse needs to be able to count on an effective mechanism for enforcing the law that removes firearms from an abusive partner,” [bill sponsor Rep. Monica] Duran said of the legislation.
Rep. Matt Gray, another Democratic sponsor of the bill, said Colorado is a mandatory arrest state for domestic violence, meaning that when there is probable cause that domestic violence has occurred, the person has to be arrested and held in jail without bond until a judge issues a protection order. The suspect also must relinquish their firearms, he added.
The legislation is for people who don’t follow the protection orders and are still at a “very high likely rate” to commit acts of violence against their partner, Gray said.
Republican Rep. Terri Carver offered several amendments, saying she believed the bill created a “serious Fifth Amendment issue” because of the paperwork for identifying the location and type of firearms in someone’s possession.
Carver said the paperwork could be used as evidence to convict them in a criminal case, leading to self-incrimination, which the Fifth Amendment protects against. Carver’s amendments failed.
— Patty Nieberg in Colorado bill would mandate domestic abusers report firearms
Ignoring the legal niceties it seems to me that if the abused simply shot their abuser this would cease to be an issue.
I approve!
What is abuse? If I get in a verbal argument with the wife and raise my voice, is that abuse? It is is some places!
Even the police can get someone to raise their voice, it is all about pushing the buttons. There, you are a hot head – even if you have been a hothead for 50 years and never were physical(had no record of it at all), now they can take your firearms, even though they are locked up in a safe.
Worse yet, you are in jail and since the firearms are gone, that makes you family vulnerable to rape or robbery and you and the family is helpless.
Let’s not blow things out of proportion. The amended bill, as passed, only requires one to admit they own firearms “following the issuance of a protection order” pursuant to CRS 18-6-800.3(1).
At that point, you have seven days to fill out the paperwork to turn things in for “safe keeping” (I hope you don’t have anything nice).
Section 1 of CRS 18-6-800.3 states, in full:
‘“Domestic violence” means an act or threatened act of violence upon a person with whom the actor is or has been involved in an intimate relationship. “Domestic violence” also includes any other crime against a person, or against property, including an animal, or any municipal ordinance violation against a person, or against property, including an animal, when used as a method of coercion, control, punishment, intimidation, or revenge directed against a person with whom the actor is or has been involved in an intimate relationship.’
So, unless they manage to convince a judge that your “hotheaded comments” constitute “acts or threats of violence upon a person or animal” or that you’ve broken a law, attacked a person, animal or property “as a method of coercion, control, punishment intimidation or revenge” then there isn’t going to be a protection order in most cases and therefore this bill doesn’t mean much.
Yeah, it’s a dumb, virtue signaling bill that won’t do any good. But you’re not likely going to get your guns confiscated due to an argument unless you got violent or started making threats, both of which are actual crimes anyway. The cops aren’t going to get you to “raise your voice” and then toss you in the clink and take your guns without a judge’s say-so and on a case that weak they’re not likely to get such a thing and even if that does happen you’ve got a week to figure things out.
If your significant other is the kind to get you tossed in jail and get your burners taken away just out of spite, then they’re the type to let you get convicted on a bullshit charge too. At that point, why would you care what happened to them?
In such a situation one should only be so lucky that such a person would get some “instant karma” in the form of rape, robbery or murder. John Lennon hisfuckingself would approve of that being the outcome. A quick nemesis is rare, and one would think you’d be grateful that the universe provided such a rarity to lil’ ol’ you.
Your honor, I must thank you for advising me of the requirement, now you may go fuck yourself.
I don’t usually go for such blatantly non-legally parsed language in my Court but… I’ll make an exception this time.
Lol.
Ask anyone who has had the police take their firearms for “safe keeping” how it worked out for them.
Most often the guns magically disappear from the evidence room and somehow find their way home with LEOs.
If they do manage to get them returned they are often badly abused, scratched up/dinged all to hell and/or missing parts. I know someone this happened too. Took him over 2 yrs to even get them back. This after they first told him they no didn’t have them.
This new law is overly ripe for major abuse and is unconstitutional IMO.
“The cops aren’t going to get you to “raise your voice” and then toss you in the clink and take your guns without a judge’s say-so…”
All it takes is one corrupt judge, and…
There are folks who would play games like that…
A corrupt judge can fuck you over on just about anything. They’ve been doing it for decades.
That is, however, not an argument for exaggeration about the scope of the language contained in a bill before a legislature.
We’re supposed to deal with facts and logic, not feelz and fuckery. Like the Constitution, the further we stray from where we should be the worse things will inevitably get.
There is a big difference of being “accused of’ and “convicted of” a criminal charge. So much for being considered innocent until proven guilty. I do believe the victim needs to be protected, but at what point do we violate someone else’s rights. It also sounds like more than a Fifth Amendment right violation.
Taking this one step farther, why not just make everyone submit a list in case they are accused of doing something wrong in the future. It make perfect sense, if someone uses a .44 Magnum in committing a crime, the police could just confiscate every .44 Magnum within a 200 mile radius to test them to see if any was used to commit the crime.
You would need to confiscate EVERY 44 magnum in the country, people are mobile, last Saturdays Times Square shooter was just caught near Jacksonville Florida… About 950 miles…
I’ve heard a murmuring a few hours ago that ‘Young v. Hawaii’ is in the process of being dropped in the SCOTUS in-basket.
Can anyone else verify that rumor?
Hawaii will capsize before it makes it to the Supreme Court’s ruling.
All the more reason to keep representative Hank Johnson as far away from Hawaii as possible.
At least your tail will keep you from sliding off and drowning… 😉
He’s doesn’t live in Hawaii, you choad.
Poor widdle troll.
I *really* piss you off, don’t I ?
Prepare to be *enraged*.
And now on TTAG ‘Sprockets’, I order you will dance, troll… 😉
eNd Of WaTcH – Johnson didn’t live in Guam, either, but it didn’t keep him from being a horse’s ass with his comment. Just like you.
A misdemeanor should not be a reason to lose your second ammendment rights Forever. Even a felon after 10 years can , with luck and money , have their rights restored. Not so with a DV charge. Its nothing more then a Bill Clitoon gunm grab scam and it needs revised.
Now , paperwork? You mean like “they” can check some paperwork and find out how many gunms you have. Interesting as there is not supposed to be a gunm regeristy. Never mind your FFL dealer narcs you out to the FBI everytime he runs a background check. No “they” dont keep those records, ha ha.
Okay so how many gunms do you have, and how many are you willing to turn over? Probably best to tell the truth, a perjury charge on top of everything else wouldn’t be to cool.
Jail sucks.
That link to the Colorado Gunm turn in has a virus, dont click on it.
Just wear 2 masks before clicking on it.
Oh- now this board realizes the insanity that misdemeanor DV is?
We have a sick culture that incentivizes divorce. The stats show women initiate 80% of divorces. Then you get a slimy divorce lawyer who will coach her to tell you she’s sleeping with the town, then turn on the camera after. Slapping a woman is the right thing to do sometimes.
You all watch too much TV. Especially boomer procedurals like CSI.
“Slapping a woman is the right thing to do sometimes.“
Oh yeah, you need lethal weapons close at hand, you never know when some female will challenge your authority or masculinity.
There he is POTG, you own him and his ilk, enjoy!
If we’re going down the road of guilt by association then those people openly claiming the “Progressive” label have earned a Blood Eagle several times over.
So, were I you, I’d be careful about dispensing expressions of generalized obligation. Rather, one such as yourself might be better served by quiet contemplation and, perhaps, the attendant attempts at self-betterment he or she might derive from the original exercise.
No guilt by association, that’s not the point.
The point is, everybody knows who these guys are, and they tolerate this behavior within the ranks of the POTG.
If the POTG don’t act responsibly and police their own ranks, reasonable citizens will demand that the authorities do it for them.
It is easy, don’t sell guns to loudmouth bullies who say things like “Slapping a woman is the right thing to do sometimes.“
As a corollary, I would suggest not selling firearms to individuals who say things like “all Democrat should be shot”, or “Nancy Pelosi and AOC are evil commies who should be hung”, etc.
It is as simple as that.
What a wonderful feeling it must be, to know you’ve sold a firearm to someone who murdered his wife or girlfriend with that very weapon.
And S9, think about your own comment.
Rather than condemn the poster for advocating misogynistic violence against women you scold me for pointing out his reprehensible attitude.
loudmouth bullies who say things like “Slapping a woman is the right thing to do sometimes.“
You act like “loudmouth bullies” can ONLY be gun owners… There are cowardly, self loathing, wife beating pu$$ies found throughout ALL society… It’s NOT just a POTG problem it’s a society problem.. When was the last time YOU stopped a man who was beating on a woman? You really do fit that Progressive mold, take one statement made by ONE idiot (who is probably closer to your side) and use it to condemn an entire group of people… How very tolerant and democratic of you…
Except you didn’t just “point out his reprehensible attitude.” You extended it to all of us, as if his saying it meant we agreed with it.
And then you moved on to proposing Second Amendment violations based on First Amendment violations.
But maybe your suggestion has some hidden merits. How about we extend your suggestion and also deny firearms to anyone who has ever been known to support socialists or said “kill whitey” or “whiteness must be eradicated” or any variation thereof, or participated in a “mostly peaceful” public demonstration?
“Rather than condemn the poster for advocating misogynistic violence against women you scold me for pointing out his reprehensible attitude.”
Actually Miner, I went many steps further than you suggest here.
I scolded you for your past statements that you’re supportive of mass murderers, slavers, racists and totalitarians (among other actions on a rather long and tawdry list).
Your failure to disavow this behavior in every given instance in which it was either practiced or praised by a self-titled “Progressive”, under your own rules proposed here, is tantamount to you voicing support for it.
Your failure to point out and condemn each of this individual actions and statements makes you despicable in your own eyes (which actually would explain a Hell of a lot) and simultaneously discredits anything else you say until you atone for the sins of others.
“You extended it to all of us“
Incorrect, I never suggested that you folks shared his misogynistic attitudes, I merely pointed out that you folks would rather scold me then I never suggested that you folks shared his misogynistic attitudes, I merely pointed out that you folks would rather scold me then acknowledge his misogyny.
And your later posts bear this out, you are circling the wagons around this guy and attacking me for noticing his unreasonable antagonism against all women.
And yes, I have many times condemned anyone, regardless of race, creed, national origin, ethnicity, gender or race who would threaten or commit violent acts against other humans.
In return, I’m being accused of being a castrato, must be some weird shit going on in that guys head.
I’m being accused of being a castrato
A little “persecution” complex? Maybe you should join Sams “PITY” Party… You jumped at the opportunity to paint POTG wth the same brush… I didn’t condemn that idiot because the statement was so fucking stupid that it HAD to be (poor taste) sarcasm… I have never raised my hand to woman in anger (even the one who stuck a 38 in my chest and pulled the trigger, I knew the gun was empty but she didn’t)… You are just so FULL of self righteous bull shit you can’t help yourself, you are compelled to try to make yourself appear better than everyone else…
No wagon-circling going on. I think I can safely speak for everyone here when I say that I don’t care what that one guy said and I’m under no obligation to disavow whatever it was. To reiterate: it has nothing to do with me and does not matter.
Attacking you? Yes, of course we are. Because we enjoy it and you deserve it. (Why, you ask? See Strych9’s most recent reply.)
And Miner has virtue signalled by “fixing” his toxic masculinity with a pair of pliers and a butter knife.
It sounds as if you are speaking from experience, I’ll bet that hurt but I’m sure your wife is grateful you took that action.
And it’s more of the same, rather than condemn the poster for his advocacy for violence against women, instead you suggest I’ve been castrated.
From your statement, one can only conclude that you agree completely with his sentiment and are willing to attack anyone who points out his reprehensible comment.
Ever woke up to a female holding a 4 ft long 2×4 getting ready to hit you while asleep with it? I have,
30 yrs. later & I still don’t know why.
I see no point in any of this if the Democrats in control are just going to let them out and excuse them anyway.
Bail “reform” does NOT apply to accused white males…you are truly screwed. It appears that in NYC and other choice Libbie locations that the only people who are afforded the benefit of the doubt regarding bail reform are POC’s…no matter the crime, it ain’t their fault ’cause institutional rassissism ‘n privilege.
In re Rep. Carver’s (R) concerns regarding the 5th Amendment protections…since when do modern Democrats (party in power in CO) give a flying fig about the Constitution as written…they prefer to re-interpret it on a daily basis ’cause it is a living, breathing document subject to the cause célèbre…!
POCs or POSs?
Yes!
When they let them out and if they get their next gunm from an ffl it won’t pass.
White, black, brown, or yellow.
Oh- now this board realizes the insanity that misdemeanor DV is?
We have a sick culture that incentivizes divorce. The stats show women initiate 80% of divorces. Then you get a slimy divorce lawyer who will coach her to tell you she’s sleeping with the town, then turn on the camera after. Slapping a woman is the right thing to do sometimes.
You all watch too much TV. Especially boomer procedurals like CSI.
Sent in a renewal for a damnable FOID card yesterday. Yeah questions about domestic violence &misdemeanor. Even if you’ve passed a 4473 mebbe 25 times in the last 10 years. What a clusterfunk!
That FOID card certainly seems unconstitutional to me.
I would not like to have to get one.
Yeah but Illinois’s other charms are worth it. I got out when a majority of the state voters decided that Bernard Epton rather than Harold Washington was the racist. It was easy to see the writing on the wall long before that though.
That was a mayoral election, I know (sometimes), but I get the mayors of Chicago and the governors if IL mixed up in my old age.
Shannon Watts’ face is abusive. Can we disarm her protection detail?
Ha Ha Ha, I like that reference to Shannon Watts face ☝️, good one.
But to get back to the article, Colorado turned blue a while ago, so no surprise.
Depends on which way your water flows. Red to the Pacific, Blue to the Gulf of Mexico.
‘F#@k the Bill of Rights’ – every Democrat ever.
Well, they learned it from the Republicans under that great tyrant Lincoln. And your “every Democrat ever” isn’t true either. The early Democrats actually stood for America and Americans, unlike the big government, big war, progressive Republicans.
Yes, the party of slavery, the Trail of Tears, Jim Crow and the KKK learned to disregard the Bill of Rights from the party that didn’t exist for the first 26 years of it’s existence and was created with the mission of abolishing slavery. Makes sense. If you’re a retard.
So, will they be required to turn in a list of baseball bats, knives, hammers and any other handheld sharpened or blunt instruments they might possess…
Equating ball bats and knives with firearms is another false equivalence.
The most skillful of operators could only kill 2 to 3 people with a ball bat rapidly, others in the area could easily flee on foot and avoid injury.
We routinely see bad actors with firearms kill 10, 15, 20 people in the space of a few minutes and very few humans can out run bullets.
But you knew all that when you posted your false equivalence statement.
Yours is equally false.
Outside of maybe a polygamist compound the violent domestic abuser that kills two to three people has wiped out his family in most cases. There isn’t a strong connection between the guy who beats his wife, gets out on bail and then shoots up a mall. But, you know that.
OTOH, they could be like the most dangerous operator ever who killed 19 and seriously wounded 26 more with a knife… he just waited until they were asleep before commencing with a mass knife attack.
But you knew all that when you posted your false equivalence statement.
I believe the “relevant” conversation is about “DOMESTIC VIOLENCE”… So, unless the individual in question practices Polygamy it is most likely that his/her/its target will be an INDIVIDUAL… Context, context, context Mr. “I’m SMARTER than you”… And in reference to your admonition that WE own the “Slapping a woman is the right thing to do sometimes.“ guy and his ilk… You need look no farther than yourself to realize that ignorance exists on both sides of the conversation and fortunately THEY own YOU and your ILK…
Maxine, your weak grasp of reality would be hilarious, if it wasn’t so tragic.
“it is most likely that his/her/its target will be an INDIVIDUAL… Context, context, context”
Really? That’s what you’re going with?
Here’s a dose of reality, seven dead in a domestic situation.
“Police officers arrived minutes later to find that a gunman had killed five people at a birthday party before killing himself. A sixth person was critically injured and died later at a hospital.
The gunman was the boyfriend of one of the women who was killed, the Colorado Springs Police Department said in a statement.“
Perhaps you are not cognizant of current events, I should give you a pass because you probably watch Fox News.
I should give you a pass because you probably watch Fox News.
Miner, actually I do NOT watch faux news since they moved over to YOUR side and once again you start by showing your disdain and total lack of respect for the opinions of others (I could have started with old “MINERVA 69r, but why bother)… Does it empower you, fulfill your warped sense of self worth to disparage another person? Each time I responded to you I used “MINER”… Anyway get some new material as the “MAXINE/MAXXIPAD” schtick is growing dull… Leave it to you to pull the anomally, one incident in 10,000 domestic violence situations involving multiple individuals who were aware and probably capable of defending themselves… Yet you say nothing about the numerous attacks (with knives and blunt instruments) of domestic violence that claim the lives of “sleeping” children and spouses… Or (since you are stuck on that “mass killing” thing) that you fail to mention the mass killings of school children in Japan and China and even the US (several years ago in PA where a man with a KNIFE entered an Amish school and killed several little girls.. might have been 8?) So pick and choose what you disperse as YOUR facts and to hell with the big picture… Right?
OBTW: FBI stats show 5 times more murders by knives than rifles..
The ratio of knife-to-rifle related deaths also grew from the previous year’s statistic of more than four knife murders for every one murder with a rifle.
“Routinely”? Bullshit, plain and simple. More than 10 with a firearm is VERY unusual. OTOH, with a fucking TRUCK you could run up 80+ pretty easy, even if you don’t know how to light a fire.
And your next “evidence” did not show me the routine 10, 15, or 20 dead, now did it?
Miner said:
“Equating ball bats and knives with firearms is another false equivalence.”
Of course, it is logically NOT a false equivalence. All the above mentioned weapons can and have been used for violence. No one has mentioned the amount of people killed by any weapon.
Since you mentioned this, then obviously, you have to lead off with the hydrogen bomb, which quite eclipses any numbers that might have killed using guns or anything else, with the exception of Mother Nature which has effectively killed off the entire previously living human race through various nefarious means.
“you have to lead off with the hydrogen bomb“
Absurd, few domestic attackers have access to nuclear weapons.
Your grasp of reality is as tenuous as most on this list.
Some have used Marxism to kill millions. Miner pleasures himself imagining those good times.
Miner said: “Your grasp of reality is as tenuous as most on this list.”
Not being a liberal allows me to have a solid grasp on reality and truth, as opposed to the mentally deprived dream weavers and hallucinators on the left, those TDS afflicted crying whiners that inhabit the vast prairies of microaggressions, narcissism and sexual deviancy.
I will also add that, being at the top of the conservative mountain, it’s a lot of fun looking down at the scurrying liberal ants as they run, hither and yon, without purpose, just to think they are achieving their grand master plan of world domination… before the boot drops over their fruitless efforts and grinds them into dust.
Just remember, THIS TIME, this utopia, will be the real one. No one else has ever in history had the thoughts and convictions and pure righteousness on their side, as the Insects do now.
I’m still pretty young myself, and perhaps it’s the arrogance of youth, but I am quite accurate with a magnifying glass on a clear day and sometimes I just can’t help myself. I love making my point from the opening paragraph to the self- important little Insects as they scurry about their day. Hopefully in time I’ll employ your strategy and just enjoy the inevitable boot drop.
Miner’s a idiot, everyone on this site knows that.
It’s just entertaining to read his crap.
Guns have more than likely SAVED more lives than most people know about, because it doesn’t get any air time.
& I’m being polite.
I’m a little late to this party, but if Haynes v US says that a felon doesn’t have to register their guns… they’re right about this presenting a 5th amendment issue.
Just more feelgood legislation.
Any sensible person would know that any registry would be woefully incomplete, and only gain the names of the same people who would hand in their firearms without resistance without a registry. The problem is that we are not dealing with sensible people. The moment some ignorant jackass like the Faux President begins bragging about successfully imposing a registry upon a previously free people, the calls for door-to-door confiscations will begin. People will begin to die in less than a year. To look at that another way, if Second Amendment objections don’t do the job, there’s no point thinking that Fifth Amendment objections will. At that point just load your guns and wait for the sound of your door being breached.
The gay married with children sexually liberated governor will sign the legislation. When it comes to his desk. He and people like him just can’t stay out of the bedrooms of other people. They support a Welfare Industrial Complex for a woman having 5 kids from 5 different men.
The sexually liberated like this chaos in society. They helped create it.
“Black Lives Matter: The Black Racist LGBT Group [part two]”
video 50 minutes long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bym5mvqSBeQ&t=1622s
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